I installed about 1,100 sq of their retrofit board along with their tubing, boiler, thermostats, and manifold. I am not a builder or construction tradesman (I’m a mechanical engineer). It was pretty straightforward to install everything. All of their components are top notch and very well engineered. Their customer service is absolutely incredible. They’re all really good guys and have an excellent product!
My system without installation was less than $13k. Remember that we’re talking about it including the tubing, thermostats, controller, self contained boiler unit, and fully detailed plans. It’s more than just the aluminum skinned boards. This was one year ago prices. I’m sure with today’s ridiculous supply chain issues, it’s likely higher.
I've done a lot of boilers, done a lot of radiant. Our company has done a couple of Warmboard jobs and so far they are really impressive. Good boiler brand, very well planned out and very efficient. I love doing near boiler piping, manifolds etc but this system really is easier.
My dad built quality custom homes starting in the 1950’s. He always used hot water baseboard heat, being quiet and clean. I built my current custom in 1994 with HWBH as well. It makes for wonderful living in cool/cold climates. This seems like a great product. I love your channel.
I hadda limit use of my hwbb system due to the propane cost won’t to an o d boiler(wood) which is the best other than the exercise preparing the wood but sure works for me 15 years n going !! N it can end up free if ur creative. All the heat u want n then some FREE.
We looked at this product 10 years ago as we installed in floor heating when we built. The benefit of this system is that it is designed to be used over timber joists with plywood the way most stick framed houses are built here. The issue is that these floors have no thermal mass to retain any of that heat and thus the system runs hotter water which uses a lot of energy and is not as efficient. On the plus side your floor will feel very warm. On the negative I was told that only engineered hardwood can handle that much heat. The best way to do in floor heating requires thermal mass which is what radiates the heat not just the pipes themselves. So we had to re-engineer the house to have concrete floors and steel joists to support them. Obviously this added cost but the boiler isn't running as hot as the mass stores the heat and releases it slower. So our floors aren't as hot to the touch typically, as they are with systems that don't have thermal mass. With the mass the floors are only as hot as the room itself which uses much much less energy. For a large home the energy savings will offset the extra cost. For many this may be too expensive upfront, but I see a lot of massive homes being built on your channel and even in my area where they install these less efficient warm board systems or they lay 2 inches of light concrete over the plywood subfloor. This gives some thermal mass but not enough to really do the job so they run hotter as well. This extra heat can cause the hardwood floors to de-bond from the 2" quickrete overlay - a problem you wont have with the warm board system as you can nail down the hardwood because the pipes are exposed so you can see where they are and the aluminum with wood backing accepts nails. Tile floors on the warmboard might be an issue though as the mortar won't stick well to the aluminum. We have had no issues with our glued down engineered hardwood on the 6" concrete because the floor doesn't run hot. Anyways lots to think about when using these products.
Dr. G, respectfully you’re incorrect on a lot of what you have written. I have tile over my Warmboard and the heat isn’t high enough to do anything like causing the tile to disbond. I did add Schluter Ditra mat right on top of the Warmboard panels and I watched closely as my tile guy put it down. There were zero issues with the mortar bonding to the aluminum. Same with the tile bonding to the plastic Ditra mat. It is heavenly to walk on the tile in my bare feet. Nice and toasty warm! Also, one of the reasons I went with Warmboard was due to the ability to control the heating where I can turn it down at night. This works very well and reacts within an hour. To me, this is much better than having a high mass unit like Uponor tubing embedded in concrete where you’re looking at a day turndown time. The comment about the boiler always being on with the Warmboard system is also not true at all. I haven’t timed it but it definitely cycles on and off with fairly long off times (much more off than on). You can also lay real wood over it (as well as tile, carpet, whatever). It’s the way they do their panels with the aluminum sheet that makes them efficient. The aluminum sheet retains some of the heat and provides for a much more even heating system.
@@pauledwards1157 I’m glad that you have had no issues with the flooring over the warm board. Perhaps the cases I heard of were not properly installed. I stand corrected. For comparisons sake my floors are never toasty warm but my house is. That toasty warm feeling is exactly what I was talking about. Takes more energy to keep them that way. The boiler runs the water at a higher temp than with a high thermal mass system. That’s why you have to turn the heat down at night. We never have to touch our thermostat. Doesn’t get too hot. And yes with concrete it takes a couple of days to fire up all that mass at the beginning of cold season but we have also experienced a multi day power outage and our house stayed warm enough throughout as it took about 3 days for that mass to cool down. That said having toasty warm floors in the bathroom and kitchen would actually be desirable. So if I was doing it again I would consider the warm board in those areas where I’m barefoot and standing around and mass for the rest. Thanks for sharing your experience.
@@theverdictisstillout I don’t ever manually touch my thermostat. I just like to sleep at a cooler temperature than when I’m sitting on my couch during the evening. The Warmboard thermostats control the floor temperature based on what they read 50” off the floor. I tend to run mine at 71 during the day/evening and like it at 64/65 at night. You can’t do that with high thermal mass systems which was why I did not want to go with the typical concrete/hydronic tubing method. I needed that ability to turn down to a cooler temperature at night.
Interesting comments. I'm a retired HVAC tech and finally building my forever home in Western Michigan. I'm using the happy medium to the low mass vs. high mass emitter. The basement level will have high mass (4" concrete) with the bedrooms zoned to allow for cooler night temps. The main floor and the upper floor with both be medium mass Thermafloor - not to be confused with the old trade name of Gypcrete which is made by the same company. Thermafloor has more gypsum so it's lighter and yet durable. It's probably a wash with costs compared to this system but the plus benefit is that I've added a fire barrier between levels. Also, my supply water temperature on the coldest design day is 102 degrees F. My boiler, (NTI, TFT80) has the ability to do automatic reset meaning the boiler automatically adjusts the supply water temperature to match the outdoor temperature. That saves me money because the lower you run a condensing boiler, the more efficient you recover the heat from the gas you burn. This is a seems to be a good engineered system for the right application, I'm just old school and shy away from to many electronic controls, though you can't escape what's available today.
This is fun! I live in Denmark (Scandinavia) where all new houses are fitted with floor heating which have been the standard for more than 20 years. You guys in the US really need to look abroad. I can recommend the Danish based company Danfoss. They produce combined units for both heating and hot water, and the systems with manifold for the circuits are not complicated and big like the ones you are used to in the US. The Warmboard panels are not invented by the guy in the video - it can't be. I have seen similar products here in Denmark for many years.
Huh. Here I thought Danfoss was American because they made stuff in the USA. It would be great to have in floor heating, but that isn't going to happen in the house I live in.
After seeing the video on the heat pump water heater that seems like the way to go for heating radiant flooring. Maybe that and a mix of tankless. I remember loving radiant flooring when I lived in an apartment in Korea. Their system was really old school. There was a valve in each room to either turn the system on or off for that particular room and a boiler that also acted as the hot water for your bath. I got 3rd degree burns not realizing how hot the water coming out of that thing was. It seems like we really make the system more complicated than it has to be.
Installed Warmboard when I remodeled my 2,000 sq. ft. house here in CT 10 years ago. It was expensive but the best move ever for comfort and efficiency. I love it. A little bonus that is not so obvious; no heat ducts or radiators to deal with. (A/C is a high velocity system)
Love the idea of heating the floor and not the air. In the Northeast we need AC also so It's easy to just go with forced hot air. I would love to feel the comfort of that system.
@yo yo ... such a system is already made and in use for commercial applications. They are made up of chiller panels, installed in various areas, then they use a much smaller air handler to remove the humidity. (so the panels don't sweat) The main advantage is fewer ducts, and less total air movement so fewer drafty spots. I have forgotten who makes it.
Used Warmboard panels in my 1830” Greek revival rehab in 2010 .. yeah looks like a submarine in the mechanical room but man i loved using the subfloor version of this product ..it showed up and went together nicely..I’m in warren Rhode Island
Loved the way he just steered/drifted the conversation entirely away from cost. I mean, how hard can it be to give a rough cost per sqft for the system...?
I installed a Locinvar combi boiler , all the rubber under wood floor tubing and the under floor basement tubing ... pumps for a 4 zone system and thermostats . I have a 2000 sq. foot main floor and 2000 basement house , the cost for the equipment was around 12,000 .
I’m building a new home with cathedral ceilings in a 4 season, Northern New England climate, slightly higher cost than conventional heating systems with greater efficiency, and the product that is complete from A-to-Z.
Lochinvar Boilers are the cadillac of small boilers . I used the combi boiler that produces not only hot water for my heating system but also makes domestic hot water for my house needs . The combi is the best way to do your heating needs because its the only unit you need .
Been filling this for awhile... Would install in a remodel of my home !!! Can use other companies to run the system. I am using Water Furnace for my heating and AC put in 20 years ago. Uses the ground for temperature exchange... Amazing system .... Matt you need to check it out. Instead of changing outdoor temp for heat & AC your using a constant death temperature in your area. It's a great system ....
Wonderful system, nothing better than having barefoot friendly floors at 11F. We replaced all of the subfloors in a 1980s house with Warmboard. Our carpenters did the installation (including the PEX) with the plumbers doing the final hookup.
Unfortunately, up here in my area (downstate NY) Lochinvar boilers are rare and often get removed and replaced by something more service friendly. A recent project I completed had a fancy Lochinvar boiler. A dozens visits from 3 different plumbers failed to get the system operational. Lochinvar sent a service tech who was marginally useful. It took nearly 18 montha to have the system properly comissioned. Reputable plumbers I have worked with have similar stories. Seems like amazing equipment that requires special training.
Many plumbers have little real experience working with boilers. Worse still many that do work on boilers think they know what they are doing but don't. Try to find a company that specializes in hydronics. I work in South Jersey and there are a ton of plumbers who "work on boilers" but only a handful actually know what they are doing.
I really wanted to use Warmboard in my house 7 years ago but it would have added $20,000 to the cost of my home. In retrospect, I could have done it for less as I could have sourced 1 1/8" material for the areas where I didn't need to heat., essentially an area 12' x 25' in a 1500 SF house. My house is a DELTEC and requires 2 layers of subfloor, Warmboard would have served well as the second layer. In reality, I wouldn't have needed to heat the bedroom at all as I've never run the radiant heat in that room. My walls are 2x6 with 5/8 sheathing and an inch of foam and then spray foamed. I did put in floor in the basement and garage.
Matt- installing this in my new home. Subfloor down, cutting the custom routes, then the pex. Plumbers are running the lines to the manifolds and will be installing the Warmboard Boiler. Warmboard is great to work with throughout the process. The local rep came out and explained the subfloor Installation to the framers (who never used Warmboard before).
YES. As an HVAC guy who just completed my own warmboard install w/ a Rinnai combi - I am very upset that I didn't wait 2-3 years for Daikin, etc. to bring the heat pumps to the US.
R744 is GWP of 1 because it’s CO2, excited to see if companies can manage the higher pressures it requires and start to replace R410a as a go to residential heat pump and AC refrigerant
I used Warmboard for a gut renovation mechanical setup with an A2W heatpump and a 3 ton ducted Fancoil for AC works really well. The Warmboard team is excellent, you get what you pay for.
@mattrisinger. Warmboard works well for raised foundations or wood subfloors. Because it can be screwed or nailed down. However, Warmboard doesn't work so well on concrete slabs. The cost of the Warmboard and the requirements to fasten to slab is very expensive. The Warmboards themselves are very expensive compared to other systems on the market. My company is getting ready to do another whole house radiant floor system. We use the Uponor system. Uponor will do a full system calculation with a full set of plans. We install systems on a new construction with a slab foundation to be able to have heat control in each room. The slab foundation is poured and let to cure. When we do the framing of the house we add two additional bottom plates to give us 3 inches for the radiant heating. Then we lay down Creatherm insulated panel to accepted the Uponor tubing, Then we do an overpour of light weight concrete to the top of the second bottom plate. This has given us great results with the ability to control heat output in each room.
On the slab then do you need to do a thermal break before installing the Uponor radiant heating? I have been contemplating Uponor radiant heating to solve my heating issues but I’m just unsure how to protect against accidental puncture during a remodel or someone foolishly putting a screw or nail through the floor and into the radiant? This is the only reason why I hesitate on wanting radiant heating. Water damage scares me a lot. I will be using Uponor to replumb my house so I know the connections will be good but I’m just afraid of some future foolish mistake that puts my home at risk. Any thoughts? Thank you.
You do a concrete slab then your radiant on a slurry coat? We do a poly layer for radon protection, then 4 inches of foam, set our wire mesh, cable tie our heat lines to the wire mesh, then pour our finish 4" slab. So clients go with polished concrete and some do a glue down hardwood. Polished concrete ends up being a cheap heated flooring option
@@mountains2938 I have found there is so many different way to install radiant heat. It comes down to preferences and how focused you want the heating to be. We found that when we tie it to the steel in the slab it takes more energy and time to heat the entire mass of the slab. And there is possibilities of running into cold spots on the finished floor. There are several different type of insulated panels on the market. We just prefer the Creathram panel. So we put down the insulated panels on the finished slab. The main slab has a thick vapor/moisture barrier place prior to pouring main slab. Then we install the tubing per the Uponor layout. Then do an over pour of concrete either light weight concrete or a pea grave mix concrete. Which gives us two difference to in slab install. The first being that we can make each individual room or area a zone control. The second is that we can focus more heat into the living space. Because the most of the heat will travel upward due to the insulated panel and it only has to go through 1-1/2" to 2" of concrete.
@@insecureinvestorchallenge7366 I have found there is so many different way to install radiant heat. It comes down to preferences and how focused you want the heating to be. Yes, we use an insulated panel prior to installing the tubing. We use a Creathrem insulated panel. Here is the layer layout from earth to top of finished floor. 1. Earth 2. A thick vapor/moisture barrier. 3. Steel for slab. 4. Then concrete slab is poured. 4. Then Creathrem panels are laid out. 5. Then tubing installed. 6. Then over pour with either light weight concrete of pea gravel concrete. 7. Finished flooring. This process doesn't really work for remodels due to it raises the floor height 3 inches. That is why in new construction we add 2 additional bottom plates to give us the additional 3 inches in height. That way it does not create a problem for the door heights throughout the house.
@@insecureinvestorchallenge7366 Sorry I forgot to address the accidental puncture. So we do not put radiant heating in the following areas due to wasted money. We don't install the panels or tubing in the following areas. 1. Under any cabinets throughout the house. 2. Pantry areas. 3. Under any islands or peninsulas. 4. Depending on the customer wants in the smaller closets in the 2nd, or 3rd bedrooms. How we make sure that we don't damage the newly installed tubing is to make sure all the structural areas that needs to be secured to the slab are already completed. Each loop is a continuous run. Which means some length are as short as 100 foot to as long as 250 foot or longer. The reason we use a concrete overlay is it is harder to damage the tubing once in cased in concrete. With wood subfloor and panels you have to be very aware of the tubing. Because yes I have had customers that have had punches due to accidental screws. Hope that helps.
Would have loved more detail about "what's in the box" i.e what components have they incorporated inside. Also can we buy their boiler and attach to our existing hydronic heating system.
Our site has more info if you're interested. As for your existing system, most likely not. But if you want to give us a call, we could talk through some of the specifics.
Installed Warmboard in the remodel of my 2,000 sq. ft. house here in CT a decade ago. It is expensive up front but incredible in performance. It was the best move ever, and yeah, no radiators or ducts to deal with.
@@cheeseburger9232 I installed right over the existing 1/2” sub floor. It was a 1963 house with the 1 1/8” Warmboard product. I save a bit by not running Warmboard under cabinets, the island, and closets and was able to eliminate like 6 panels. That’s as okay as I knew the BTU output was more than sufficient and I have never run more then 110 degree water in the system.
These new floors , furnaces, geo-thermal, solar, are all very efficient and air tight homes meet the code very nicely in Northern parts of the Country and South too. Lot of the insulating and AC and builds are great too in South with ICF and other construction (we live in both the South and North, not quite snowbirds still enjoy snow and the sports North ). Yet, the problem that is developing is cost. We're in the process of trying to build a summer home on a couple acres in a Northern State not to far from Canada. Not real rural but still short of builders that even keep up on a lot of this information. Today we just got a quote for 2300 sq foot home at $750,000. Lowering it to just 1500 sq feet still comes in at $525,000. Builders are at $250 to $450 a sq foot that is if you can get the supplies. One builder told us if he ordered Pella windows (this area can deal with -35 F in Winter) it will be 36 months before delivered. A half a million for a 1500 sq foot home (does have a three car garage) is just nuts. Add a Poured or Superior wall basement with 1/3 finished basement your now at $700,000.00 . Do all the great things shown on the program and you surpass a million for a very small home. Of course what happens it will bring everything to a grinding halt. Still love the Channel and have been involved in alternative building and designs since the 1970's. It's sad that the prices are overcoming the great inovations coming out. Keep up the great work on the channel.
I agree, in most cases building prices here are crazy right now. However, I recently used Doorwin Windows and Doors (a great company out of China). You can buy windows and doors directly from the manufacturer, saving money and time. Their products are great and they can have your window/door schedule built out and shipped to the US within 8 weeks in most cases.
My quote three years ago (before lumber prices went crazy) included roughly $10/sqft just for the subfloor sheething. On a 3000 sqft house that was $30,000 just to have a place to run the tubing (vs. $3,000 for standard floor sheething at the time), didn't include any mechanicals/plumbing, and still required a completely separate system for air conditioning. Too rich for my blood... I cannot imagine how much it would cost today.
@@grahamstefaan He's building custom homes. What do you expect? He's not remodeling 800sq foot dumps like I am next month. Or building 1500 square foot, prefab homes.
You'd honestly only need it on your lower floor of a three floor home if your home is insulated well. My boss has an 6000 square foot, 2 floor home. His lower level floor heating is overkill and barely runs. He's at almost 8000' in altitude in Utah. All solar, and a pretty small panel array because his house is so efficient.
It was about $7/sqf for just the clad boards in 2016 when I looked into it definitely a lot of other options out there I would hate to use their proprietary zone control system
@@veganpotterthevegan I agree with you. I do high end hvac in NYC and those rich folks aren’t worry about the price tag , they want the best of the best. So to have a product like this available is a bonus. There’s Rolls Royce and there’s Honda.
What cooling system matches a warmboard system for cooling the air in the summer? Don't really like the looks of ductless mini-splits, wondering if there are other product(s) that would be a good match. Thanks in advance.
I'm in the middle of waiting for a new home being built in a development. We are going to yank the floors out and put in tile or hardwood. Anyway, we are thinking of doing a radiant heat system. Its in California and I'm thinking we could put this in our bottom floor, keep the floor toasty but the radiant heat would rise and keep the entire house warm. I wonder if that would be enough. :D Really dont need much. I think I could install this!
Would love to see a testimonial or cost breakdown of someone who used Warmboard system in a house with a geothermal heat pump. Low energy bills + incredible comfort, oh man. What a setup for a dream house.
From what I've read, the down side the WarBoard's system is it does not integrate with 3rd party equipment like airconditioning or others smart thermostat (like the NEST). For air conditioning you need a whole separate system down to thermostats and controllers .
Correct. Our thermostats are required to run the system and cannot be swapped out for other options. They can however control many types of AC systems.
Korea has been using this sub-floor heating system for 100s of years. The system does not have to be as complex and complicated as "the inventor" has made it out to be. Sub-floor heating products are sensible and energy efficient. I definitely appreciate much of what Matt brings to us. The hyperbole of "our system fixes everything" is unnecessary.
it's not really that complicated if you look at the basics. The whizz-bang factor is all in the wireless T-stats and water temp change based on heat load. Of course you have been able to buy foam insulation with pipe tracks for years. Their system is wood based so easier inside a home. You could probably get away with 7/16" OSB for a sub floor too. (cost savings)
I got a quote from Warmboard a little while back. Great system, but way too expensive for my small 1500 sq ft home. I found another place though, HUG Hydronics, that seems to be easier to install/maintain, and cost less than half of the Warmboard, and other hydronic systems I've looked into.
Very nice! Does this system work in tandem with embedding the tubing in a slab so you can have radiant flooring in the garage below and radiant flooring in the wood framed floor of the loft above?
Look at all the different available options before using this one. This is a paid ad for a specific use case. Every house I build we do in floor heat and I've used this system once on a reno. It worked ok but wouldn't be my first choice.
We've got a couple interviews on our youtube page with general contractors, radiant installers and plumbers who have installed the system, if you're interested.
Great Video. Looking to update the plumbing and heating on my future house. I am currently in contract with the seller. Can I integrate the warm board system and the Uponor Logic System? The house is supplied with oil from a roth 275 oil tank. My basement space is quite small so the new compact system is VERY appealing. Also, in the effort to saving money by buying bulk, can half inch ProPex/Aqua pex be used in the warm board flooring grooves? Thanks.
I love this system and have recently done an installation in BC however I do have to criticize of the system. I spoke to Warmboard about it and it is like talking to a rock. 1. Not having a domestic hot water loop to storage tanks make no sense. The loop is no different then than a zone and the boiler should be able to provide a higher temperature just to DHW zone. This would save in overall system costs but also in cost of heating DHW water. 2. The tubing spacing at such a low temperature does not work well for our northern Canada zones when it is minus 35 degreess Celsius. The answer is either to make the loops at 6" spacing or increase the loop temperature. I vote for tighter loops and keep the lower temps and costs down. Cheers Bob
would agree in tighter loops for extreme cold. I see no reason why that fancy control board can't shut off the heat circulators for a few minutes and make a higher temp for domestic water. The house temp can certainly coast for 15-20 minutes a few times a day to make hot water for a storage tank
I am in the process of designing my new home that I plan to build myself. One of the things that I am heavily debating is the heating and cooling. I would really like to go with a radiant heat system but if I do so how do I cool the house?
I'm going to be building a cabin in the next couple of years (in Arizona's White Mountains), and I'm looking to do Warmboard for heating and probably mini-split(s) for cooling (and possibly supplemental heat, though I probably wouldn't need it). I'm hoping to do something like a monopoly framed 2x6 with ZIP R-12, plus flash & batt inside. I'm interested in any responses to your question.
If you're doing it yourself cost is an issue. Do a forced air with a variable speed inside and out units. Then spend more on insulation and sealing. No slab on grade.
What about the pressure tank, air scrubber/scoop etc? When a zone valve or pump goes out can I replace it as easily as I can on my old school system? I like the idea from an install perspective, but highly integrated systems can be hard to maintain without pricey specialized technicians and parts.
I’m not a tradesman. I installed the ENTIRE system myself. Everything. Boiler, manifold, panels AL-PEX-AL tubing, thermostats, controller, water feed, gas feed. A plumber can do all of this without issue.
Matt Risinger is very good at spending money. However depending on what it is then sometimes I find it worth the cost. Sometimes I don’t. You need to decide for yourself. Thank you!
@@superspeeder if I don’t ask then there’s no possibility of me even trying or considering it. It’s kinda like my kid’s uncle that doesn’t seem to see the point on why to try certain things. He kills it off right there in his head and doesn’t exercise his brain to figure out how he can make something possible when he really wants it. I find that to be no different in any part of our lives. Everything we have around us and in our lives manifested in our heads first. Shut down the possibility or the idea itself and that’s a sure fire way to make sure that it definitely is not obtainable. You don’t know till you find out. I find no harm in the pursuit of what you want and seeing how to get it or what is possible. I have many thousands of dollars of work that needs to be accomplished and yet I am going to have to figure out how to come up with money that I don’t actually have right now. Somehow I am finding a way but it does take some work to think about it. Hopefully people don’t get mad at me for saying this… but I was challenged years ago to STOP taking the easy/lazy way out. To exercise my brain like we would our body. Like we have always been told in life that we can do anything we put our mind to. Shutting down our brain literally shuts down that opportunity. So I would just encourage people to consider that. You might or might not be able to but you won’t know if you don’t check it out. I was basically called “lazy” years ago and I am grateful for the person that called me out on it. I hope this is taken with the good intent that this was intended. Me, personally… I would probably opt for a Uponor radiant heating system. I wish you well and thank you!
Can this be installed on a basement slab? Or any product that anyone knows about? One that have sliding. Door just installed. Would like to rip up carpet and install something like this if possible
I install boilers and I'd still go with a boiler that can do both the infloor and domestic hot water. It's probably around the same price either way you go. I would like to know how much this system costs.... oh and the boilers I install modulate as well so idk
You would have a stronger voice than I would as an individual homeowner…but (1) what if Huber Zip Sheathing had the rainscreen furring strips built into it? Maybe they could find a way to design it so it didn’t interfere with the tape application…?? (2)Can Warmboard engineer the system to work under wainscoting or on the ceiling like in one of your past videos? (3)Do they have an efficient electric water heating option?
The system itself is great, but it would be much more efficient and comfortable if the distances between the pipes would be smaller. I have direct comparisons from two identical buildings connected to the same district heating system and a 10 cm (~ 4 inches) distance was much more energy efficient than that of the other house, where a 15 cm distance was used. In bathrooms, 5 cm was even more efficient, as you want it warmer in there. This looks like at least 20 cm, which is way too high. The heat distributes radially around the pipe, so you have hot and cold spots on the floor. I have costumers that used 20 cm distances and they all say that it's uncomfortable to stand on after a while, as directly above the pipes the temperature has to be too high to reach the desired room temperature. Smaller distances allow lower flow temperature and the heat is more evenly distributed. Especially if there is almost no material above the pipes and there is less space to heat up radially, this effect gets even worse. In the above examples there was always around 4-5 cm of material above the pipe, so on the surface a wider area is heated up. I would not go beyond 10 cm with this system if you live in colder climates.
Check with Schluter. I believe they have installation solutions for it to work with tile or better yet just apply the floor heating system that Schluter has. It depends on how large of an area you’re looking at and if you’re talking about only a bathroom area then it would be a very easy and an efficient installation to go with Schluter. They have their own TH-cam channel, website with awesome customer service and you can even can get connected with a local representative that can go over your specific situation and give you direct answers for what you need. I hope this helps! Thank you.
Yes. We have 7 recommended tile assemblies. If you visit our website, scroll to the bottom then click "Documents" and then see our Warmboard-S (or R) installation guide. All the information is in there.
@@jvalal We have a resistive electric option currently. We only recommend for very specific instances. More information about other electric options later this year.
th-cam.com/video/zc1NSeqaA1c/w-d-xo.html And please use this tube layout, not the one in the vid. This one spreads the heat more equal. Keep 10cm between pipes, and loops not longer than 100meter. Put those loops on a manifold wit a pump and u can hook it up on any warming system because the manifold controles the temp and mixes loop water with heating water till the right temp for the system is reached.
Miss leading, you still need all of the manifolds and piping outside of the boiler. If you are running a boiler the best option to do is install an indirect water heater off of that boiler. Why would you turn around and install another appliance to heat the water when you already have a boiler installed. Another concern is service. If your built in expansion tank goes how hard is it going to be to get a replacement? All that proprietary equipment will be a pain to service over time.
Good video on product but one thing it seems you never address outside of cost which you mention is when there is a problem I.e. controller board etc. breaks and it will overtime as all parts do at some point who do you get to service? While a plumber can install they are not tech to diagnose and fix electronic issues. Please consider addressing that aspect when you are showing new/updated products on where service can be obtained and who can repair. Thanks for the video.
Yes. You can install our Warmboard-R panel over the slab. Heat loss would be minimal and could be reduced with a layer of Homasote between the slab and our panels.
This is old in europe. And use a "snail patern" instead of the tube layout they using in this vid . With the tube patern in this vid u going to create a heat difference between the begining and end of the tube.
Same BTU usage other than you can possibly turn the temp down and save that way(90% efficient is still 90% no matter what it's heating) Radiant heat is about comfort. Most homes around here also have a forced air system to quickly ramp heat and for cooling. Once you have radiant heat done right you never want it any other way. It's like why is it so nice to sit by a wood stove on a cold day? It just can't be described other than it is amazing.
Savings are very tough to calculate because people live in their home so differently, in different geography, with different energy sources. We've heard of 30% savings on heating bills, and we've heard of 80% savings on heating bills.
@@Warmboard Lot of variables true but your answer is what I was looking for. If one were to choose this type of system, how long until, for lack of a better way to put it, "it-pays-for-itself"? You know, like with going solar or going with tankless hot water systems...
Communication occurs on a closed-loop wireless network. No internet required. There is however our Warmboard Bridge which connects everything to the Internet and allows for software updates and remote troubleshooting.
No. A radiant cooling system requires different types of controls, including dehumification (and addressing condensation) which can get very expensive. So you would need a separate system. In our opinion, radiant cooling is not the best cooling option in most situations.
I have some strong reservations about the system. I see plumbing system that is installed underneath a nailed down flooring. I can only imagine the headache of repairing a penetration or leak. What if u have a flood and need to remove the flooring and subfloor. OMG.
I was hoping just to get an idea on cost. He was asking the founder but dropped the ball on the price point. So instead I had to rely on these comments (thank you everybody) and investigate further.
I’m pretty sure it is not structural. I would check with warm board directly to make sure but I have seen it in other house builds and it has been placed on other structural boards. I hope this helps! Thank you.
Our Warmboard-S panel is structural and can be installed directly over joist. Our Warmboard-R panel typically goes down over existing subfloor or slab.
find a neon shop and ask there. Anything can be built for a price. If you are handy, you could use a router to make your own design and have them lay in the neon.... or do it yourself with rope lights.
It was roughly $13/sq ft back in December 2020. I’m sure it’s higher now with all the supply chain issues. Give ‘‘em a call. They’re really nice guys and will give you a much more accurate answer than I can. Again, that price included the boiler, controller, thermostats, manifold, tubing, boards, shipping so a lot was included in the cost.
Matt, my wife and I just purchased a new home - well it's new for us, it was built in 2007. The floors throughout are tile, hardwood, and carpet. I am going to rip up up the carpets and have Warmboard installed. However, I am hoping there is a work-around for the floors that are tiled and hardwood to get radiant heat - these floors are very cold on bare feet. Fortunately, the Warmboard rep for the Eastern Region lives near us. Hopefully with her and Stark & Cronk HVAC they can find a solution. There are a couple of TH-cam videos which show PEX being pulled through the floor joists and supported against the subfloor. Do you have any thoughts on this?
Installing under the subfloor sounds like a costly faff. Imagine crawling on your back, removing all the floor insulation, then installing loop after loop of pex to miss joists/blocking/mechanical/electrical/plumbing. Then reinstalling (new) insulation. Probably cheaper to simply remove the flooring and install warmboard.
How would this work once you want to finish a kitchen or bathroom? Drill through the aluminum to pull lines through? Or put it down after after and lose an inch of height from your countertops?
Radiant is the way to go. But dont fall for the bs zone valves for every loop. They all break eventually. Simple circulator’s with simple headers for each zone you want. Labor intensive but worth it.
Google shows the boiler itself is at least $3k for the small model, then the Warmsource add-on, then the boards, tubing, plumbing and installation..... makes sense where it snows but spending 10s of thousands of dollars just for heating is a little too much.
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I installed about 1,100 sq of their retrofit board along with their tubing, boiler, thermostats, and manifold. I am not a builder or construction tradesman (I’m a mechanical engineer). It was pretty straightforward to install everything. All of their components are top notch and very well engineered. Their customer service is absolutely incredible. They’re all really good guys and have an excellent product!
Ballpark $ estimate?
@yo yo depends on if you got more time then money vice versa
My system without installation was less than $13k. Remember that we’re talking about it including the tubing, thermostats, controller, self contained boiler unit, and fully detailed plans. It’s more than just the aluminum skinned boards. This was one year ago prices. I’m sure with today’s ridiculous supply chain issues, it’s likely higher.
@@pauledwards1157 How many sqft?
@@jhealy3110 1,100
I've done a lot of boilers, done a lot of radiant. Our company has done a couple of Warmboard jobs and so far they are really impressive. Good boiler brand, very well planned out and very efficient. I love doing near boiler piping, manifolds etc but this system really is easier.
My dad built quality custom homes starting in the 1950’s. He always used hot water baseboard heat, being quiet and clean. I built my current custom in 1994 with HWBH as well. It makes for wonderful living in cool/cold climates. This seems like a great product. I love your channel.
I hadda limit use of my hwbb system due to the propane cost won’t to an o d boiler(wood) which is the best other than the exercise preparing the wood but sure works for me 15 years n going !! N it can end up free if ur creative. All the heat u want n then some FREE.
We looked at this product 10 years ago as we installed in floor heating when we built. The benefit of this system is that it is designed to be used over timber joists with plywood the way most stick framed houses are built here. The issue is that these floors have no thermal mass to retain any of that heat and thus the system runs hotter water which uses a lot of energy and is not as efficient. On the plus side your floor will feel very warm. On the negative I was told that only engineered hardwood can handle that much heat. The best way to do in floor heating requires thermal mass which is what radiates the heat not just the pipes themselves. So we had to re-engineer the house to have concrete floors and steel joists to support them. Obviously this added cost but the boiler isn't running as hot as the mass stores the heat and releases it slower. So our floors aren't as hot to the touch typically, as they are with systems that don't have thermal mass. With the mass the floors are only as hot as the room itself which uses much much less energy. For a large home the energy savings will offset the extra cost. For many this may be too expensive upfront, but I see a lot of massive homes being built on your channel and even in my area where they install these less efficient warm board systems or they lay 2 inches of light concrete over the plywood subfloor. This gives some thermal mass but not enough to really do the job so they run hotter as well. This extra heat can cause the hardwood floors to de-bond from the 2" quickrete overlay - a problem you wont have with the warm board system as you can nail down the hardwood because the pipes are exposed so you can see where they are and the aluminum with wood backing accepts nails. Tile floors on the warmboard might be an issue though as the mortar won't stick well to the aluminum. We have had no issues with our glued down engineered hardwood on the 6" concrete because the floor doesn't run hot. Anyways lots to think about when using these products.
Dr. G, respectfully you’re incorrect on a lot of what you have written. I have tile over my Warmboard and the heat isn’t high enough to do anything like causing the tile to disbond. I did add Schluter Ditra mat right on top of the Warmboard panels and I watched closely as my tile guy put it down. There were zero issues with the mortar bonding to the aluminum. Same with the tile bonding to the plastic Ditra mat. It is heavenly to walk on the tile in my bare feet. Nice and toasty warm! Also, one of the reasons I went with Warmboard was due to the ability to control the heating where I can turn it down at night. This works very well and reacts within an hour. To me, this is much better than having a high mass unit like Uponor tubing embedded in concrete where you’re looking at a day turndown time. The comment about the boiler always being on with the Warmboard system is also not true at all. I haven’t timed it but it definitely cycles on and off with fairly long off times (much more off than on). You can also lay real wood over it (as well as tile, carpet, whatever). It’s the way they do their panels with the aluminum sheet that makes them efficient. The aluminum sheet retains some of the heat and provides for a much more even heating system.
@@pauledwards1157 I’m glad that you have had no issues with the flooring over the warm board. Perhaps the cases I heard of were not properly installed. I stand corrected. For comparisons sake my floors are never toasty warm but my house is. That toasty warm feeling is exactly what I was talking about. Takes more energy to keep them that way. The boiler runs the water at a higher temp than with a high thermal mass system. That’s why you have to turn the heat down at night. We never have to touch our thermostat. Doesn’t get too hot. And yes with concrete it takes a couple of days to fire up all that mass at the beginning of cold season but we have also experienced a multi day power outage and our house stayed warm enough throughout as it took about 3 days for that mass to cool down. That said having toasty warm floors in the bathroom and kitchen would actually be desirable. So if I was doing it again I would consider the warm board in those areas where I’m barefoot and standing around and mass for the rest. Thanks for sharing your experience.
@@theverdictisstillout I don’t ever manually touch my thermostat. I just like to sleep at a cooler temperature than when I’m sitting on my couch during the evening. The Warmboard thermostats control the floor temperature based on what they read 50” off the floor. I tend to run mine at 71 during the day/evening and like it at 64/65 at night. You can’t do that with high thermal mass systems which was why I did not want to go with the typical concrete/hydronic tubing method. I needed that ability to turn down to a cooler temperature at night.
@@pauledwards1157 pros and cons. I cannot do that. 🙂
Interesting comments. I'm a retired HVAC tech and finally building my forever home in Western Michigan. I'm using the happy medium to the low mass vs. high mass emitter. The basement level will have high mass (4" concrete) with the bedrooms zoned to allow for cooler night temps. The main floor and the upper floor with both be medium mass Thermafloor - not to be confused with the old trade name of Gypcrete which is made by the same company. Thermafloor has more gypsum so it's lighter and yet durable. It's probably a wash with costs compared to this system but the plus benefit is that I've added a fire barrier between levels. Also, my supply water temperature on the coldest design day is 102 degrees F. My boiler, (NTI, TFT80) has the ability to do automatic reset meaning the boiler automatically adjusts the supply water temperature to match the outdoor temperature. That saves me money because the lower you run a condensing boiler, the more efficient you recover the heat from the gas you burn. This is a seems to be a good engineered system for the right application, I'm just old school and shy away from to many electronic controls, though you can't escape what's available today.
Beautiful system. I love the choice of an e-ink display thermostat, and I love how well integrated the system is.
This is fun! I live in Denmark (Scandinavia) where all new houses are fitted with floor heating which have been the standard for more than 20 years.
You guys in the US really need to look abroad. I can recommend the Danish based company Danfoss. They produce combined units for both heating and hot water, and the systems with manifold for the circuits are not complicated and big like the ones you are used to in the US.
The Warmboard panels are not invented by the guy in the video - it can't be. I have seen similar products here in Denmark for many years.
Huh. Here I thought Danfoss was American because they made stuff in the USA.
It would be great to have in floor heating, but that isn't going to happen in the house I live in.
After seeing the video on the heat pump water heater that seems like the way to go for heating radiant flooring. Maybe that and a mix of tankless.
I remember loving radiant flooring when I lived in an apartment in Korea. Their system was really old school. There was a valve in each room to either turn the system on or off for that particular room and a boiler that also acted as the hot water for your bath. I got 3rd degree burns not realizing how hot the water coming out of that thing was. It seems like we really make the system more complicated than it has to be.
Installed Warmboard when I remodeled my 2,000 sq. ft. house here in CT 10 years ago.
It was expensive but the best move ever for comfort and efficiency. I love it.
A little bonus that is not so obvious; no heat ducts or radiators to deal with. (A/C is a high velocity system)
Love the idea of heating the floor and not the air. In the Northeast we need AC also so It's easy to just go with forced hot air. I would love to feel the comfort of that system.
@yo yo Yes Mini splits are becoming more acceptable to have something on the wall. I know they have ceiling units bif you have room for the install.
@yo yo ... such a system is already made and in use for commercial applications. They are made up of chiller panels, installed in various areas, then they use a much smaller air handler to remove the humidity. (so the panels don't sweat) The main advantage is fewer ducts, and less total air movement so fewer drafty spots. I have forgotten who makes it.
Used Warmboard panels in my 1830” Greek revival rehab in 2010 .. yeah looks like a submarine in the mechanical room but man i loved using the subfloor version of this product ..it showed up and went together nicely..I’m in warren Rhode Island
Cost bud for parts?
Hey Prescott, I live about an hour away in MA in a late 1700’s farm house. I’m curious, did you go down to the joists or just over the existing floor?
Looking forward to building my own home and you are an EXCEPTIONAL resource. Thank you!
Loved the way he just steered/drifted the conversation entirely away from cost. I mean, how hard can it be to give a rough cost per sqft for the system...?
I installed a Locinvar combi boiler , all the rubber under wood floor tubing and the under floor basement tubing ... pumps for a 4 zone system and thermostats . I have a 2000 sq. foot main floor and 2000 basement house , the cost for the equipment was around 12,000 .
I got a quote for my house 90,000!!!!
I’m building a new home with cathedral ceilings in a 4 season, Northern New England climate, slightly higher cost than conventional heating systems with greater efficiency, and the product that is complete from A-to-Z.
Lochinvar Boilers are the cadillac of small boilers . I used the combi boiler that produces not only hot water for my heating system but also makes domestic hot water for my house needs . The combi is the best way to do your heating needs because its the only unit you need .
it's been fun and interesting watching matt build his business via TH-cam over the years.
Been filling this for awhile... Would install in a remodel of my home !!! Can use other companies to run the system. I am using Water Furnace for my heating and AC put in 20 years ago. Uses the ground for temperature exchange... Amazing system .... Matt you need to check it out. Instead of changing outdoor temp for heat & AC your using a constant death temperature in your area. It's a great system ....
He made a video about geothermal heat pumps before.
Wonderful system, nothing better than having barefoot friendly floors at 11F. We replaced all of the subfloors in a 1980s house with Warmboard. Our carpenters did the installation (including the PEX) with the plumbers doing the final hookup.
That guy terry is a gem you could tell. Kudos to him for making a great product.
Love your channel Matt, always valuable info!
Thanks Bruce!
Unfortunately, up here in my area (downstate NY) Lochinvar boilers are rare and often get removed and replaced by something more service friendly. A recent project I completed had a fancy Lochinvar boiler. A dozens visits from 3 different plumbers failed to get the system operational. Lochinvar sent a service tech who was marginally useful. It took nearly 18 montha to have the system properly comissioned. Reputable plumbers I have worked with have similar stories. Seems like amazing equipment that requires special training.
Many plumbers have little real experience working with boilers. Worse still many that do work on boilers think they know what they are doing but don't. Try to find a company that specializes in hydronics. I work in South Jersey and there are a ton of plumbers who "work on boilers" but only a handful actually know what they are doing.
I really wanted to use Warmboard in my house 7 years ago but it would have added $20,000 to the cost of my home. In retrospect, I could have done it for less as I could have sourced 1 1/8" material for the areas where I didn't need to heat., essentially an area 12' x 25' in a 1500 SF house. My house is a DELTEC and requires 2 layers of subfloor, Warmboard would have served well as the second layer. In reality, I wouldn't have needed to heat the bedroom at all as I've never run the radiant heat in that room. My walls are 2x6 with 5/8 sheathing and an inch of foam and then spray foamed. I did put in floor in the basement and garage.
Matt- installing this in my new home. Subfloor down, cutting the custom routes, then the pex. Plumbers are running the lines to the manifolds and will be installing the Warmboard Boiler. Warmboard is great to work with throughout the process. The local rep came out and explained the subfloor Installation to the framers (who never used Warmboard before).
Given the low temperature required this would pair well with an air-to-water heat pump.
That's where I see this going once the R32 stuff storms North "Murica
Agreed!
YES. As an HVAC guy who just completed my own warmboard install w/ a Rinnai combi - I am very upset that I didn't wait 2-3 years for Daikin, etc. to bring the heat pumps to the US.
R744 is GWP of 1 because it’s CO2, excited to see if companies can manage the higher pressures it requires and start to replace R410a as a go to residential heat pump and AC refrigerant
I used Warmboard for a gut renovation mechanical setup with an A2W heatpump and a 3 ton ducted Fancoil for AC works really well. The Warmboard team is excellent, you get what you pay for.
I love lochinvar units. Great choice
@mattrisinger. Warmboard works well for raised foundations or wood subfloors. Because it can be screwed or nailed down. However, Warmboard doesn't work so well on concrete slabs. The cost of the Warmboard and the requirements to fasten to slab is very expensive. The Warmboards themselves are very expensive compared to other systems on the market. My company is getting ready to do another whole house radiant floor system. We use the Uponor system. Uponor will do a full system calculation with a full set of plans. We install systems on a new construction with a slab foundation to be able to have heat control in each room. The slab foundation is poured and let to cure. When we do the framing of the house we add two additional bottom plates to give us 3 inches for the radiant heating. Then we lay down Creatherm insulated panel to accepted the Uponor tubing, Then we do an overpour of light weight concrete to the top of the second bottom plate. This has given us great results with the ability to control heat output in each room.
On the slab then do you need to do a thermal break before installing the Uponor radiant heating? I have been contemplating Uponor radiant heating to solve my heating issues but I’m just unsure how to protect against accidental puncture during a remodel or someone foolishly putting a screw or nail through the floor and into the radiant? This is the only reason why I hesitate on wanting radiant heating. Water damage scares me a lot. I will be using Uponor to replumb my house so I know the connections will be good but I’m just afraid of some future foolish mistake that puts my home at risk. Any thoughts? Thank you.
You do a concrete slab then your radiant on a slurry coat? We do a poly layer for radon protection, then 4 inches of foam, set our wire mesh, cable tie our heat lines to the wire mesh, then pour our finish 4" slab. So clients go with polished concrete and some do a glue down hardwood. Polished concrete ends up being a cheap heated flooring option
@@mountains2938 I have found there is so many different way to install radiant heat. It comes down to preferences and how focused you want the heating to be. We found that when we tie it to the steel in the slab it takes more energy and time to heat the entire mass of the slab. And there is possibilities of running into cold spots on the finished floor. There are several different type of insulated panels on the market. We just prefer the Creathram panel. So we put down the insulated panels on the finished slab. The main slab has a thick vapor/moisture barrier place prior to pouring main slab. Then we install the tubing per the Uponor layout. Then do an over pour of concrete either light weight concrete or a pea grave mix concrete. Which gives us two difference to in slab install. The first being that we can make each individual room or area a zone control. The second is that we can focus more heat into the living space. Because the most of the heat will travel upward due to the insulated panel and it only has to go through 1-1/2" to 2" of concrete.
@@insecureinvestorchallenge7366 I have found there is so many different way to install radiant heat. It comes down to preferences and how focused you want the heating to be. Yes, we use an insulated panel prior to installing the tubing. We use a Creathrem insulated panel. Here is the layer layout from earth to top of finished floor. 1. Earth 2. A thick vapor/moisture barrier. 3. Steel for slab. 4. Then concrete slab is poured. 4. Then Creathrem panels are laid out. 5. Then tubing installed. 6. Then over pour with either light weight concrete of pea gravel concrete. 7. Finished flooring. This process doesn't really work for remodels due to it raises the floor height 3 inches. That is why in new construction we add 2 additional bottom plates to give us the additional 3 inches in height. That way it does not create a problem for the door heights throughout the house.
@@insecureinvestorchallenge7366 Sorry I forgot to address the accidental puncture. So we do not put radiant heating in the following areas due to wasted money. We don't install the panels or tubing in the following areas. 1. Under any cabinets throughout the house. 2. Pantry areas. 3. Under any islands or peninsulas. 4. Depending on the customer wants in the smaller closets in the 2nd, or 3rd bedrooms. How we make sure that we don't damage the newly installed tubing is to make sure all the structural areas that needs to be secured to the slab are already completed. Each loop is a continuous run. Which means some length are as short as 100 foot to as long as 250 foot or longer. The reason we use a concrete overlay is it is harder to damage the tubing once in cased in concrete. With wood subfloor and panels you have to be very aware of the tubing. Because yes I have had customers that have had punches due to accidental screws. Hope that helps.
Would have loved more detail about "what's in the box" i.e what components have they incorporated inside. Also can we buy their boiler and attach to our existing hydronic heating system.
Our site has more info if you're interested. As for your existing system, most likely not. But if you want to give us a call, we could talk through some of the specifics.
Installed Warmboard in the remodel of my 2,000 sq. ft. house here in CT a decade ago.
It is expensive up front but incredible in performance. It was the best move ever, and yeah, no radiators or ducts to deal with.
Same positive experience with Warmboard on Long Island NY, over three winters.
Did you rip up the old flooring down to bare floor joists , than you put warm board on top of floor joists?
@@cheeseburger9232 - good question
@@cheeseburger9232 I installed right over the existing 1/2” sub floor. It was a 1963 house with the 1 1/8” Warmboard product. I save a bit by not running Warmboard under cabinets, the island, and closets and was able to eliminate like 6 panels. That’s as okay as I knew the BTU output was more than sufficient and I have never run more then 110 degree water in the system.
Nice! I need this is my home
Our Off-Grid Home has a similar one. Works fine.
These new floors , furnaces, geo-thermal, solar, are all very efficient and air tight homes meet the code very nicely in Northern parts of the Country and South too. Lot of the insulating and AC and builds are great too in South with ICF and other construction (we live in both the South and North, not quite snowbirds still enjoy snow and the sports North ). Yet, the problem that is developing is cost. We're in the process of trying to build a summer home on a couple acres in a Northern State not to far from Canada. Not real rural but still short of builders that even keep up on a lot of this information. Today we just got a quote for 2300 sq foot home at $750,000. Lowering it to just 1500 sq feet still comes in at $525,000. Builders are at $250 to $450 a sq foot that is if you can get the supplies. One builder told us if he ordered Pella windows (this area can deal with -35 F in Winter) it will be 36 months before delivered. A half a million for a 1500 sq foot home (does have a three car garage) is just nuts. Add a Poured or Superior wall basement with 1/3 finished basement your now at $700,000.00 . Do all the great things shown on the program and you surpass a million for a very small home. Of course what happens it will bring everything to a grinding halt.
Still love the Channel and have been involved in alternative building and designs since the 1970's. It's sad that the prices are overcoming the great inovations coming out.
Keep up the great work on the channel.
I agree, in most cases building prices here are crazy right now. However, I recently used Doorwin Windows and Doors (a great company out of China). You can buy windows and doors directly from the manufacturer, saving money and time. Their products are great and they can have your window/door schedule built out and shipped to the US within 8 weeks in most cases.
I like the gas pedal analogy! checking out warmboard now!
My quote three years ago (before lumber prices went crazy) included roughly $10/sqft just for the subfloor sheething. On a 3000 sqft house that was $30,000 just to have a place to run the tubing (vs. $3,000 for standard floor sheething at the time), didn't include any mechanicals/plumbing, and still required a completely separate system for air conditioning. Too rich for my blood... I cannot imagine how much it would cost today.
On par for this channel to be deaf on costs.
@@grahamstefaan He's building custom homes. What do you expect? He's not remodeling 800sq foot dumps like I am next month. Or building 1500 square foot, prefab homes.
You'd honestly only need it on your lower floor of a three floor home if your home is insulated well. My boss has an 6000 square foot, 2 floor home. His lower level floor heating is overkill and barely runs. He's at almost 8000' in altitude in Utah. All solar, and a pretty small panel array because his house is so efficient.
It was about $7/sqf for just the clad boards in 2016 when I looked into it definitely a lot of other options out there I would hate to use their proprietary zone control system
@@veganpotterthevegan I agree with you. I do high end hvac in NYC and those rich folks aren’t worry about the price tag , they want the best of the best. So to have a product like this available is a bonus. There’s Rolls Royce and there’s Honda.
Awesome stuff Matt! 😃👍🏻👊🏻
What cooling system matches a warmboard system for cooling the air in the summer? Don't really like the looks of ductless mini-splits, wondering if there are other product(s) that would be a good match. Thanks in advance.
I'm in the middle of waiting for a new home being built in a development. We are going to yank the floors out and put in tile or hardwood. Anyway, we are thinking of doing a radiant heat system. Its in California and I'm thinking we could put this in our bottom floor, keep the floor toasty but the radiant heat would rise and keep the entire house warm. I wonder if that would be enough. :D Really dont need much. I think I could install this!
Would love to see a testimonial or cost breakdown of someone who used Warmboard system in a house with a geothermal heat pump. Low energy bills + incredible comfort, oh man. What a setup for a dream house.
you could probably analyze the cost using BTUs of system output as the actual requirements of the house won't change.
From what I've read, the down side the WarBoard's system is it does not integrate with 3rd party equipment like airconditioning or others smart thermostat (like the NEST). For air conditioning you need a whole separate system down to thermostats and controllers .
Correct. Our thermostats are required to run the system and cannot be swapped out for other options. They can however control many types of AC systems.
Korea has been using this sub-floor heating system for 100s of years. The system does not have to be as complex and complicated as "the inventor" has made it out to be. Sub-floor heating products are sensible and energy efficient. I definitely appreciate much of what Matt brings to us. The hyperbole of "our system fixes everything" is unnecessary.
it's not really that complicated if you look at the basics. The whizz-bang factor is all in the wireless T-stats and water temp change based on heat load. Of course you have been able to buy foam insulation with pipe tracks for years. Their system is wood based so easier inside a home. You could probably get away with 7/16" OSB for a sub floor too. (cost savings)
It would be great to have an electric system!
I got a quote from Warmboard a little while back. Great system, but way too expensive for my small 1500 sq ft home. I found another place though, HUG Hydronics, that seems to be easier to install/maintain, and cost less than half of the Warmboard, and other hydronic systems I've looked into.
Awesome product
Would love to see a multizone heatpump version.
What do you do for people that are building on a slab in New England area specifically RI
Need a heat pump version of this to get me on board.
Can you use a radiant pec system with a on demand water heater?
So when is a heatpump version coming? Could retrofit a heatpump hot water tank to do it.
not many reset controls used in ct but very big returns over time.
Did you talk to him about the electric version to supply the heat for the floor?
Very nice! Does this system work in tandem with embedding the tubing in a slab so you can have radiant flooring in the garage below and radiant flooring in the wood framed floor of the loft above?
I'm no plumber but I'm gonna give it a shot. Thanks Matt!
Shit runs down hill, don't chew your fingernails. That's all you need to know.
@@matthewerwin4677 payday is on Friday 😂
Look at all the different available options before using this one. This is a paid ad for a specific use case. Every house I build we do in floor heat and I've used this system once on a reno. It worked ok but wouldn't be my first choice.
We've got a couple interviews on our youtube page with general contractors, radiant installers and plumbers who have installed the system, if you're interested.
@@mountains2938 What would your first choice be?
This is a great product
Great Video. Looking to update the plumbing and heating on my future house. I am currently in contract with the seller.
Can I integrate the warm board system and the Uponor Logic System? The house is supplied with oil from a roth 275 oil tank. My basement space is quite small so the new compact system is VERY appealing.
Also, in the effort to saving money by buying bulk, can half inch ProPex/Aqua pex be used in the warm board flooring grooves?
Thanks.
I love this system and have recently done an installation in BC however I do have to criticize of the system. I spoke to Warmboard about it and it is like talking to a rock. 1. Not having a domestic hot water loop to storage tanks make no sense. The loop is no different then than a zone and the boiler should be able to provide a higher temperature just to DHW zone. This would save in overall system costs but also in cost of heating DHW water. 2. The tubing spacing at such a low temperature does not work well for our northern Canada zones when it is minus 35 degreess Celsius. The answer is either to make the loops at 6" spacing or increase the loop temperature. I vote for tighter loops and keep the lower temps and costs down.
Cheers Bob
would agree in tighter loops for extreme cold. I see no reason why that fancy control board can't shut off the heat circulators for a few minutes and make a higher temp for domestic water. The house temp can certainly coast for 15-20 minutes a few times a day to make hot water for a storage tank
Any solar thermal component to these warm board system ???
Thanks For The Awesome Videos.
Awesome video! Can this also be used with a geothermal system?
I am in the process of designing my new home that I plan to build myself. One of the things that I am heavily debating is the heating and cooling. I would really like to go with a radiant heat system but if I do so how do I cool the house?
I'm going to be building a cabin in the next couple of years (in Arizona's White Mountains), and I'm looking to do Warmboard for heating and probably mini-split(s) for cooling (and possibly supplemental heat, though I probably wouldn't need it). I'm hoping to do something like a monopoly framed 2x6 with ZIP R-12, plus flash & batt inside. I'm interested in any responses to your question.
If you're doing it yourself cost is an issue. Do a forced air with a variable speed inside and out units. Then spend more on insulation and sealing. No slab on grade.
what about AC.? You still need to install traditional ducts and and AC units?
I wish this particular system from warmboard system could work with geothermal which I will have. No gas, no boiler, no fuel bills
What about the pressure tank, air scrubber/scoop etc? When a zone valve or pump goes out can I replace it as easily as I can on my old school system? I like the idea from an install perspective, but highly integrated systems can be hard to maintain without pricey specialized technicians and parts.
I’m not a tradesman. I installed the ENTIRE system myself. Everything. Boiler, manifold, panels AL-PEX-AL tubing, thermostats, controller, water feed, gas feed. A plumber can do all of this without issue.
I wished they had a version that ran off of a Sandon heat pump system esp with the low running temps
is a plumber necessary for install? can a person with general knowledge if construction install this comfort system?
Can they display the temps in Celsius?
If you think that’s impressive then you should check out what’s available in the UK!
Cost estimate? Whenever someone fails to answer the cost question it makes me think it’s too expensive.
Definitely!!
Matt Risinger is very good at spending money. However depending on what it is then sometimes I find it worth the cost. Sometimes I don’t. You need to decide for yourself. Thank you!
If you have to ask, you can’t afford it, lol
@@superspeeder if I don’t ask then there’s no possibility of me even trying or considering it. It’s kinda like my kid’s uncle that doesn’t seem to see the point on why to try certain things. He kills it off right there in his head and doesn’t exercise his brain to figure out how he can make something possible when he really wants it. I find that to be no different in any part of our lives. Everything we have around us and in our lives manifested in our heads first. Shut down the possibility or the idea itself and that’s a sure fire way to make sure that it definitely is not obtainable. You don’t know till you find out.
I find no harm in the pursuit of what you want and seeing how to get it or what is possible. I have many thousands of dollars of work that needs to be accomplished and yet I am going to have to figure out how to come up with money that I don’t actually have right now. Somehow I am finding a way but it does take some work to think about it.
Hopefully people don’t get mad at me for saying this… but I was challenged years ago to STOP taking the easy/lazy way out. To exercise my brain like we would our body. Like we have always been told in life that we can do anything we put our mind to. Shutting down our brain literally shuts down that opportunity. So I would just encourage people to consider that. You might or might not be able to but you won’t know if you don’t check it out. I was basically called “lazy” years ago and I am grateful for the person that called me out on it. I hope this is taken with the good intent that this was intended. Me, personally… I would probably opt for a Uponor radiant heating system. I wish you well and thank you!
Can this be installed on a basement slab? Or any product that anyone knows about? One that have sliding. Door just installed. Would like to rip up carpet and install something like this if possible
I install boilers and I'd still go with a boiler that can do both the infloor and domestic hot water. It's probably around the same price either way you go. I would like to know how much this system costs.... oh and the boilers I install modulate as well so idk
You would have a stronger voice than I would as an individual homeowner…but (1) what if Huber Zip Sheathing had the rainscreen furring strips built into it? Maybe they could find a way to design it so it didn’t interfere with the tape application…?? (2)Can Warmboard engineer the system to work under wainscoting or on the ceiling like in one of your past videos? (3)Do they have an efficient electric water heating option?
The system itself is great, but it would be much more efficient and comfortable if the distances between the pipes would be smaller. I have direct comparisons from two identical buildings connected to the same district heating system and a 10 cm (~ 4 inches) distance was much more energy efficient than that of the other house, where a 15 cm distance was used. In bathrooms, 5 cm was even more efficient, as you want it warmer in there. This looks like at least 20 cm, which is way too high. The heat distributes radially around the pipe, so you have hot and cold spots on the floor.
I have costumers that used 20 cm distances and they all say that it's uncomfortable to stand on after a while, as directly above the pipes the temperature has to be too high to reach the desired room temperature. Smaller distances allow lower flow temperature and the heat is more evenly distributed. Especially if there is almost no material above the pipes and there is less space to heat up radially, this effect gets even worse.
In the above examples there was always around 4-5 cm of material above the pipe, so on the surface a wider area is heated up. I would not go beyond 10 cm with this system if you live in colder climates.
You’re failing to understand how the thick aluminum plating distributes the heat evenly.
Interesting.
Work under tile?
Check with Schluter. I believe they have installation solutions for it to work with tile or better yet just apply the floor heating system that Schluter has. It depends on how large of an area you’re looking at and if you’re talking about only a bathroom area then it would be a very easy and an efficient installation to go with Schluter. They have their own TH-cam channel, website with awesome customer service and you can even can get connected with a local representative that can go over your specific situation and give you direct answers for what you need. I hope this helps! Thank you.
Yes. We have 7 recommended tile assemblies. If you visit our website, scroll to the bottom then click "Documents" and then see our Warmboard-S (or R) installation guide. All the information is in there.
Hopefully they'll have an electric heater or electric heat pump version soon
Does this support electric or only gas?
Natural Gas or Propane. We also have an electric option. Stay tuned for a Heat Pump announcement later this year.
@@Warmboard So you have an electric option available now or it's coming later this year?
@@jvalal We have a resistive electric option currently. We only recommend for very specific instances. More information about other electric options later this year.
Can you buy the templates and use a router to make your own in say 1-1/8 Flooring?
th-cam.com/video/zc1NSeqaA1c/w-d-xo.html
And please use this tube layout, not the one in the vid. This one spreads the heat more equal. Keep 10cm between pipes, and loops not longer than 100meter. Put those loops on a manifold wit a pump and u can hook it up on any warming system because the manifold controles the temp and mixes loop water with heating water till the right temp for the system is reached.
Miss leading, you still need all of the manifolds and piping outside of the boiler. If you are running a boiler the best option to do is install an indirect water heater off of that boiler. Why would you turn around and install another appliance to heat the water when you already have a boiler installed.
Another concern is service. If your built in expansion tank goes how hard is it going to be to get a replacement? All that proprietary equipment will be a pain to service over time.
Good video on product but one thing it seems you never address outside of cost which you mention is when there is a problem I.e. controller board etc. breaks and it will overtime as all parts do at some point who do you get to service? While a plumber can install they are not tech to diagnose and fix electronic issues. Please consider addressing that aspect when you are showing new/updated products on where service can be obtained and who can repair. Thanks for the video.
Can this be used on a slab on grade house? Would you just lose all the heat downward?
Yes. You can install our Warmboard-R panel over the slab. Heat loss would be minimal and could be reduced with a layer of Homasote between the slab and our panels.
This is old in europe.
And use a "snail patern" instead of the tube layout they using in this vid .
With the tube patern in this vid u going to create a heat difference between the begining and end of the tube.
What's an average cost per square foot of floor space? How much savings versus traditional heating in wintery/cold weather?
Same BTU usage other than you can possibly turn the temp down and save that way(90% efficient is still 90% no matter what it's heating) Radiant heat is about comfort. Most homes around here also have a forced air system to quickly ramp heat and for cooling. Once you have radiant heat done right you never want it any other way. It's like why is it so nice to sit by a wood stove on a cold day? It just can't be described other than it is amazing.
@@tysleight Thanks for sharing. I haven't learned enough about this yet but I do like it.
I am personally considering the Uponor radiant heating system. Something to consider and check out. Thank you!
Savings are very tough to calculate because people live in their home so differently, in different geography, with different energy sources. We've heard of 30% savings on heating bills, and we've heard of 80% savings on heating bills.
@@Warmboard Lot of variables true but your answer is what I was looking for. If one were to choose this type of system, how long until, for lack of a better way to put it, "it-pays-for-itself"? You know, like with going solar or going with tankless hot water systems...
Is it communicating through the web, or just to the main brin in the heating enclosure?
Communication occurs on a closed-loop wireless network. No internet required. There is however our Warmboard Bridge which connects everything to the Internet and allows for software updates and remote troubleshooting.
@@Warmboard I like closed loop, since bandwidth is pretty dear out where we are.
I want to use wood, what do i do then
Can it run cool water as well?
No. A radiant cooling system requires different types of controls, including dehumification (and addressing condensation) which can get very expensive. So you would need a separate system. In our opinion, radiant cooling is not the best cooling option in most situations.
I have some strong reservations about the system. I see plumbing system that is installed underneath a nailed down flooring. I can only imagine the headache of repairing a penetration or leak. What if u have a flood and need to remove the flooring and subfloor. OMG.
What happened to the ballpark cost??
It went to the stratosphere 😂. In price that is.
I was hoping just to get an idea on cost. He was asking the founder but dropped the ball on the price point. So instead I had to rely on these comments (thank you everybody) and investigate further.
Is warm board structural ? Or does it need to be placed on top of an advanteck type subfloor ?
I’m pretty sure it is not structural. I would check with warm board directly to make sure but I have seen it in other house builds and it has been placed on other structural boards. I hope this helps! Thank you.
definitely not structural
They offer two panel styles. A structural subfloor panel or an osb retrofit panel.
Our Warmboard-S panel is structural and can be installed directly over joist. Our Warmboard-R panel typically goes down over existing subfloor or slab.
Back to lav mic, thank you.
tech from 70s :D
Is that “build” sign available for purchase or just a one-off? It’s awesome. I’d love that in my garage.
find a neon shop and ask there. Anything can be built for a price. If you are handy, you could use a router to make your own design and have them lay in the neon.... or do it yourself with rope lights.
Anyone know what warmboard runs per SQ ft?
Answered above. Complete system installed around $20/sq ft
@@pauledwards1157 I was really looking for materials cost.
It was roughly $13/sq ft back in December 2020. I’m sure it’s higher now with all the supply chain issues. Give ‘‘em a call. They’re really nice guys and will give you a much more accurate answer than I can. Again, that price included the boiler, controller, thermostats, manifold, tubing, boards, shipping so a lot was included in the cost.
Matt, my wife and I just purchased a new home - well it's new for us, it was built in 2007. The floors throughout are tile, hardwood, and carpet. I am going to rip up up the carpets and have Warmboard installed. However, I am hoping there is a work-around for the floors that are tiled and hardwood to get radiant heat - these floors are very cold on bare feet. Fortunately, the Warmboard rep for the Eastern Region lives near us. Hopefully with her and Stark & Cronk HVAC they can find a solution. There are a couple of TH-cam videos which show PEX being pulled through the floor joists and supported against the subfloor.
Do you have any thoughts on this?
If you have Access to the floor from below there is a similar style system that's been on this old.house as a retrofit.
Installing under the subfloor sounds like a costly faff. Imagine crawling on your back, removing all the floor insulation, then installing loop after loop of pex to miss joists/blocking/mechanical/electrical/plumbing. Then reinstalling (new) insulation. Probably cheaper to simply remove the flooring and install warmboard.
Would be nice to discuss the price.
Seems like you have to contact them and ask for a quote. I see no place online where you can just buy individual panels. Such a pain.
I paid for TH-cam premium so I wouldn't have to see ads, but here we are.. 'life' finds a way I guess.
OK, credit where credit is due. That was a good one.
Heat pump version?
I suspect that’s in their future
@@buildshow What this guy said.
How would this work once you want to finish a kitchen or bathroom? Drill through the aluminum to pull lines through? Or put it down after after and lose an inch of height from your countertops?
Is the water contained within the system?
Yes. It's a closed loop system.
Radiant is the way to go. But dont fall for the bs zone valves for every loop. They all break eventually. Simple circulator’s with simple headers for each zone you want. Labor intensive but worth it.
It's a very costly system but the benefits of running it out weighs an on grade pieced together system.
Google shows the boiler itself is at least $3k for the small model, then the Warmsource add-on, then the boards, tubing, plumbing and installation..... makes sense where it snows but spending 10s of thousands of dollars just for heating is a little too much.
Love the concept but if a/c is needed u’ll need a whole nother system in addition.
Have you thought about a streaming app for the build show?
🤔
@@buildshow certainly make it easier for all us mobile users to find and view build show productions.
Look what it did for motor trend.
Is this system for a laymen person to operate?
It does look like for a submarine!