Most youtubers are worried they can't hold an audience for 2 minutes, meanwhile you are an absolute legend and trust us to stick with you for an hour. And you are not wrong! Love every second of it!
Because we're all nerds, we like deep dives in devices and tech. We are the exception to the modern short attention span viewer who watches TH-cam shorts.
This is a scary accurate portrayal of what engineering looks like at times. The chaos also reminds me of my silly idea of someday building a kart with a steering wheel that controls angular velocity of the wheels instead of position.
Congratulations! You have just invented brake steering! Sadly someone implemented it to basically all agri-tractors and all tanks before differential steering
Oh god, why do i feel like that go kart is a thing. Btw they made the fridge this way hoping that if the door ever opened, it wouldn’t kill the fridge. Especially for a company who’s biggest customer is motels and hotels. They just have to be good enough. Tbh i don’t even understand that fridge because ive seen plenty that have electronics. There was a bunch that were TEC cooled. One died every other day. They were awful. Probably would be great if there was two or 4 but they only use one. They are sensitive to over current, which they always end up doing
i am a Refrigeration tech, and I would like to give you some insights, so the type of mechanical thermostat this fridge, (actually the type most small commercial units use) is actually quite interesting. When you adjust the knob your not actually changing the temperature at which the switch closes. It is what's known as a fixed cut in switch, meaning what you are actually changing with the knob is the differential between the cut-in and cut-out temperatures, they are used to essentially make an extremely simple auto defrost. by attaching the switch to only a uniform diameter tube instead of a sensing bulb the pressure the switch sees is the average of the entire tubes length. then by inserting that tube inside the evaporator we get an average evaporator temperature. all you need to do then is calibrate the switch so that it takes an average temperature of 33deg. along its length before it has enough pressure to overcome the snap action and you can be sure the evaporator will defrost entirely every off cycle. Also, as you already found out in your testing, because you are reading evaporator temp and not air temp, when the refrigeration circuit has more BTU capacity than the refrigerator evaporators absorption capacity (a necessity with this series freezer design.) The thermostat will always satisfy before bring the box to the desired temp whenever the thermal load inside the box is larger than the evaporator capacity.
Thanks for this comment! I was kind of interested about the thermostat specifically, since I had a fridge tech replace a part in my fridge recently. He mentioned something about how the dial doesn’t actually set the temp, and I was a bit confused by that but didn’t ask him to elaborate. I think this is what he was alluding to!
I was thinking about the possibility of a thermal cut off switch on the compressor. The compressor gets too hot from a 100% duty cycle, cut off does its thing to protect the compressor, fridge warms up but compressor cools off. From my limited understanding of your explanation, that's not the case. Rather the "thermometer" is getting too cold too quickly, in effect, to detect the correct temperature and needs to pause and acclimatise before it can work again.
@@BenWolkWeiss Propane is one of the sort of "refrigerants de jour" due to simplicity, good performance, relatively low pressure, availability, low(ish) impact as a climate impactor if it leaks, and honestly, it is quite hard to blow up if it leaks - requires a pretty precise fuel air mix to burn (goes by R-290)
I have this EXACT fridge, well, black. Fits perfectly in my 250 sq ft San Francisco studio, and has been a really good fridge so far. The self-defrosting feature has been the best, as my last fridge needed to literally have ice chipped away every month, this thing gets almost no frost, and when it does, it is gone within a day. At least now I understand why the sides get warm :) As far as the temp zones, they can be annoying until you figure the out, then they become useful. I like my fridge colder than usual, but this causes things in the very back of the fridge, especially on the top shelves to freeze, had this happen to eggs. I turned this into a useful feature, anything I want extra cold, such as soda, meats, etc goes on the top near the back. It works out for me personally, but I also have a BAS in Culinary arts, I can see how this could be a headache for someone without cooking experience.
I also have this fridge and I do the same. I keep my eggs in the drawer on the bottom. It's the only fridge that fits in my 1947 kitchen so I'm happy with it.
Alec, fun fact for you to keep in mind when building your own "Fridge" is that when I was an apprentice refrigeration Mechanic in the 1970s and worked in a factory making commercial refrigerators for well known brands of Ice cream and soda. The Cap tube and length of copper pipe was determined by trial and error (The compressor size could be calculated very easily by using well known BTU / volume math) We would take a length of Capillary tube and try different lengths and diameters (It comes in many different thicknesses) cut a length and test it for a few days with a recorder inside and then try a different length and diameter. We got pretty good at it and could predict how much to use by when we got a consistent result and the lowest Amperage drawn over the same length of time. Yes power draw changes by the diameter and length of the cap tube. By the way, a smart thing to mention was that the cap tube was wrapped around the suction line just before entering the compressor for the purpose of "Heat exchanging" the heat left over from the condenser entering the evaporator and stopping liquid from entering the compressor as liquid is non condensable. Love your channel so please keep it up.
@@slaternapier1640f we're being 100% honest, the hvac-r industry is basically identical mechanically to how it was 50 years ago. The parts doing the work have changed slightly and gotten more efficient, but ultimately it's the exact same tech. 100% serious. That will be changing some soon but even with high end variable speed stuff it's still the exact same principles applied in different ways I want to clarify what I mean some. Obviously it's changed but it's really come down to experiments, math, science and trial and error just like before. But the end result is still a circuit with an evaporator, condenser, metering device and a compressor. Sure now it might flow both ways, and your metering device (in HVAC more than R) is a piston orifice or an expansion valve, but it's still the same layout and design. Just achieved a little different
I legit just bought this exact fridge on Facebook marketplace a couple weeks ago with the intention of making it the main fridge for a household of 2. I normally would not want to watch a 60 minute video about a random fridge, but ya got me on this one. Well done sir.
Big fan here. I repair fridges for a living, and i really liked this video, it was really fun seeing you figure out what's happening. Here in europe these kinds of fridges are really common. So the thermostat sensor is placed on the middle of the evaporator, the thermostat wont let the compressor start until it is fully defrosted. It is made this way so it wont accumulate frosting in the fridge and the compressors running long periods of time will overheat and can cause the motor coil to get damaged. Keep in mind that these compressors are not that efficient. The temperature issues was solved with a bigger evaporator and a fan placed above it. The fan only runs when the compressor is running and the door is closed. Really nice video
Oh so there is a reason for the placement, not just it being a mistake! That kinda makes sense, it's the sort of design that works "good enough" and is cheap. It might explain why the advice to not put warm things in the fridge and to keep it decently full if possible is so commonplace. I remember recently Alex talked about how the energy used to cool something a few more degrees isn't that much, but perhaps the advice comes more from the fridge's lack of precise temperature regulation and the recovery time rather than really the energy saving! Fun video, my very standard fridge here in the UK is basically this exact thing but without the fancy red design. With the addition of a switch for freezing food that just keeps the light on low inside the fridge giving it more to cool, therefore making the freezer compartment colder.
Since you're a professional: the seals touch an heated part to avoid them to stick, right? Is it a resistance or part of the evaporator circuit? And can this heat have been contribute to the results of the loggings of this video?
@@PaoloSulprizio I'm afraid I don't understand your question. There is no heater in these kinda fridges, the evaporator in the fridge side defrosts because of the temperature difference between the evaporator and the air inside the fridge, and this is how it cools the fridge. Fridges that use resistors have it in the freezer compartment and it only defrosts when it needs to (when enough ice accumulates on them).
@@PaoloSulprizio oh sorry i get it. On the back side of the fridge is the condensator, the black grill, which gives out heat. A part of it is incorporated inside the body of the fridge where the seals touch the body. The reason for that is that it has more surface area to give up heat and the heat keeps the seals soft through the years. Older models didn't have it and the seals became stiff and ruptured
For the thermostat, it isn't a sensing bulb but just the end soldered off. It uses a fluid pressure in the tube along it's entire length to actuate a switch in the dial portion of the thermostat. I use these style sensors as low or high cut offs in air handling units
In good ones, the end has a larger volume of fluid, thus making the end more sensitive than the tube . Though the one in the red fridge may have failed to do that, resulting in bad regulation .
thanks, that actually answers my question of how that "temperature sensor" works, basically it's just a long thin flexible "mercury" thermometer (but not mercury)
@@JerryAsher typically they have refrigerant in them. We string them along in front of air handler coils to pick up the relative temperature and if it gets too low it sets off a freeze alarm and shuts the unit down and then can do the same thing on the steam side for the heat etc
I think my favorite part about this channel is that it touches so many nerds in so many different ways. Like the fridge engineer probably watched this video and was like "Uhhh.... yeaah duh..." and maybe even added something in the comments, but the sprinkler dude was fascinated by this video while he watched the rotating sprinkler video shocked that more people didn't know these things already.
HOLY SHIT THANK YOU FOR MAKIHNG THIS VIDEO. I live on a boat and my only fridge is a magic chef mini fridge. it is basically identical to this fridge in terms of having the same insides and the only differences are on the outside and are cosmetic. You have given me so many explanations for things that hadve had me puzzled about my fridge for ages. things like everything in my freezer being melted and me wondering how it could have possibly happened with the door closed(i now think it was after putting a semi warm crock pot in the fridge). the freezer working a little too well sometimes that you physically cant scoop ice cream without thawing it first and have to cook frozen food much longer than the directions say. things on the back wall of the fridge being frozen solid while things in the door and drawer are just cool. cheese and milk going bad well before their expiration date when they are inside the bottom drawer. you gave me so much good knowledge about how this fridge works and it will forever change how I fill and arrange my food in it... as soon as I got done watching this video I immediately went and rearranged all of the food in my fridge. THANK YOU for unlocking the mysteries of the universe for me and helping me hopefully not have spoiled milk and cheese anymore
"cheese and milk going bad well before their expiration date when they are inside the bottom drawer" the bottom drawer is meant to be kinda slightly warm for veggies and stuff
@@roadsidegarage69 When you are living permanently out of a mini fridge you might not always be able to fit everything neatly into the preassigned zones. Regardless of if it contains veggies or milk, it needs to cool to safe food temps.
If anyone would have told me previously that I would willingly sit through an hour long video about a "mini" fridge, I would never have believed them. Your level of detail and thoroughness piqued my inner nerd and your hysterical tongue in cheek comedic delivery made this a complete joy to watch. Thank you for your content! Outstanding work!
@@timsimpson5129 I've bought a few and often recommend them, but most people complain that you can't squish the liquid out of cans if the lid is larger than the can, and while it's kind of a silly argument, i am all for laziness. I like the safety ones because if my pets get into the trash they're not going to cut themselves on a sharp can of chili or whatever.
Makes sense for Alec to buy something and then spend months obsessing over it and analyzing it, then making a weirdly fascinating video about the whole ordeal. Well done!
I just watched an entire 1 hour show on a low budget fridge. I was completely encapsulated by the development of events from beginning to end. Just to find out why it was 1 whole hour. Good job.
You made me laugh several times because I would think..."Just add a little fan inside. That will fix it." And then you do. And down the rabbit hole we went together.
I was thinking the same thing with "Just take the temperature sensor out of the walls and put it in the fridge, surely that'll fix it!" and then it did not
23:15 it ABSOLUTELY was a factor! like my other comment said, fridges rely heavily on the thermal mass of their contents to maintain their temperature.They are not designed to cool things quickly, they are designed to maintain a cold temperature. In the commercial kitchen they have special things known as "blast chillers" that are designed for the actual purpose of cooling down hot things. Even a commercial cooler is not designed to make hot things cold. You need thermal mass!
With the way the freezer was overperforming, he could have used the freezer to carry some of the cooling load as well, transferring the already chilled cans to the fridge when they were ready
I knew about that phenomenon years ago, I think I was taught it by my mother? I know she would "admonish" us if we left the freezer empty. - When I left my previous apartment, I put a cheap store brand gallon of water in the freezer and the refrigerator to keep the unit from breaking itself. My outgoing landlord didn't know about that reasoning and thanked me for the care. - Because I regularly end up emptying all of the food out of my freezer (by cooking it) I keep not only the ice trays in there, but also two or three of those plastic containers popcorn kernels come in, filled with water and constantly frozen. Since I added those, my refrigerator runs a little less often.
I was amazed how far I had to scroll to find someone who was going to tell him he is wrong. It's a pretty simple difference, imagine you are changing the total internal average temperature by 50F on one fridge and 15F on another and pretending that the tests are comparable.
Listening to your videos brings me a kind of joy like I've never known before. It's like sitting with an old friend chatting about anything and having a good old time.
I think most fridges here in Europe use this design. Our most recent one came with two thermal ballasts to put in the freezer with instructions to keep them there if you're not keeping products in there too help with efficiency.
I was thinking the same - I'm sure my 20+ year old Beko fridge / freezer works just like the red one, and it's what we in the UK would consider a 'normal' size too, not a mini one.
Similarly its common practice to just put big bottles of water in the freezer if its not full here too! As you say to act as a thermal ballast of sorts.
Same here. Though more modern ones use fans and digital readouts, I have never seen a fridge where the evaporator was not embedded in the wall - except reakly old ones where they formed a small freezer compartiment. We sekdomly see the double door fridges here. They became popular a decade ago, but it seems to have gone away - which might be because European houses are more compact.
I used to be an appliance repairman 20 years ago. We always recommended keeping a fridge full. The oldest guy would always tell people to fill cool whip bowls with water and put them on empty shelves.
Random barely related gripe, Great British Bake-Off had an ice cream challenge where the secret pitfall was that the bakers were not to chill their ice cream mix in the freezer of their fridge before putting it in the ice cream machine, as that would cause the freezer to become too warm to finish freezing their soft -serve. Moderately annoyed me, not just because the constant I was rooting for did badly because she didn't know that, but because... A normal home baker's freezer is a bit more temperature stable than that! Why are you pinning the pitfall of this challenge on the bakers knowing how an empty freezer works? Surely their home freezer has stuff in it that will carry enough thermal mass to quick-chill their custard and then 20 minutes later finish freezing their ice cream...
That's funny, because I use two liter soda bottles filled with water, or milk jugs. And or plastic 'ice packs'... or whatever containers I have around. The idea is that you fill up the empty space with these and they freeze... and when you need more room, you can take one out (I switch them over to the fridge, then put them back as the freezer empties).
@@AppleIPie That's one of my least favorite cooking shows of all time. I had to stop watching, after only a handful of episodes. I just couldn't take the constant cringe. To be honest, I can't stand cooking competitions.
Update: I've been using this as our household fridge for a family of 2 for the last 6 months. I added a smart thermostat to the door which sends a push notification to my phone if the temperature rises to 40 degrees. Early on I received a few push notifications after stocking. To mitigate this issue we've used a couple of re-usable ice packs to help maintain temp. We keep one in the freezer and one in the door and swap them when we restock the fridge. This simple hack has prevented it from ever hitting 40 degrees again.
I love your low key sense of humour. As a 75 y/o nerd who is somewhat "on the spectrum", I find the way you tackle subjects/ topics like this irresistable. I have, over the years, gotten myself bogged down in projects that seemed to be bottomless pits of time and ingenuity, so I can relate all too well. So it's quite a relief to know that I'm not the only crazy tinkerer on the planet.
"I have, over the years, gotten myself bogged down in projects that seemed to be bottomless pits of time and ingenuity, so I can relate all too well." I may only be 70 but I can relate all too well too. I have, quite often, started a job and got halfway through, cursing the last person to fix it with duck tape and snot until I realise that was me. It seems age is not the problem because I recall a time I, in my early 20s, drilled the trunk lock off a '69 Cadilac Fleetwood only to find a ladder I thought I had lost. The key was on my keyring.
I can concur on these statements as well. Nobody in my usual peer groups or family members ever understood this and were (mostly) never interested in my findings aside from my late mother, who always found something interesting in what I had to say. Though on the flip side, these days I do find people who are interested because they also are curious and perhaps not afraid to learn more, but never tinkered or learned. Weird how skills nobody else wanted in the past suddenly become useful. Especially for younger people who didn’t grow up straddling the old world and new one quite like my age group did.
R600a is Isobutane, for those wondering. It’s composition is exactly like butane, only it’s put together in a different way that makes it behave differently, especially as far as boiling point. In refrigeration butane boils at a balmy -0.4C, while Isobutane’s boiling point is -11.75C. The lower boiling point means it has capacity to absorb more heat at lower temperatures.
R600a is very often used als refrigerant becaus it acts very near to R12. And the manifacturer likes it, my 2-door fridge/freezer uses 52 Gramm of this. And i found the manuals of all my older fridges that are scrapped years ago and all of them used R600a.
@@michaeldemanche4162 If you want use your gas stove in cold an thin air, 5-15% Isobutane is recomendet. But its much more expensive, its only useful in cold climat like high altitude climbing or polar traveling.
@@Schutti73 I'm talking about the canister fuels which are sold for backpacking stoves. The most popular brands (MSR, GSI Outdoors, and Snow Peak), marketed as all-season, have 80%, 70%, and 75% isobutane respectively. With propane making the remainder. You're right though, they are more expensive than propane, but not too expensive.
Unbelievable. I have watched three of your videos so far. Extension cords, dishwasher tips and now this. Your cadence, delivery, explanations and all the work you put in really pulled me in. I’m mean, an hour on a fridge and I wanted more! Bravo. 👏
you can try using grills instead of a a solid plastic for the shelves like the old fridges used to have, it was the way to ensure proper convection before the fan times
I have a decently old (~15 years) and cheap fridge in my apartment with the same cooling design as the one in the video, I never thought about why my fridge had grills and your comment made a lightbulb go on over my head.
We still have those shelves in food service reach-in cooler units. The main difference from the old consumer units is the wire rack shelves have an antimicrobial plastic coating. I'm not sure one could usefully install pilaster strips in a modern conventional consumer model refrigerator, but they and the brackets to hold wire rack shelving are cheap enough. The shelves are not cheap however.
@@OstrichWrestler YES i've got an LG with those glass shelves and some of the plastic bits broke within like a month. It's gonna be a bear to replace, if I ever get tired of the duct tape -- it's like $80 for the replacement shelf and you can't just get the plastic frame, it's got new glass and all.
The corrosion you are seeing on the braze joints is from flux that is needed to help join the dissimilar metals (copper and steel) on either end of the condenser. Residual flux forms malachite on the copper end that looks alarming, but is really harmless. The only reason to clean up the joints is for Instagram, it's not autocatalytic like some forms of corrosion, so it won't get worse over time. If you look at either end of the condenser on your KitchenAid you will almost certainly see the same thing. The "capillary and bulb" style mechanical thermostat in your fridge actually doesn't have a bulb. It has a rounded tip where it was closed on the end, but that doesn't contain any more vapor than the rest of the capillary. Which is to say that it isn't measuring temperature at the "sensor bulb," it's measuring temperature across the full length of the capillary. It may be that the positioning of the thermostat guide tube wasn't perfect relative to the inner liner and the evaporator, but I think you are making a much bigger fuss about this than you ought to. If you perform the same experiment in your chest freezer you will get similar results in terms of temperature inhomogeneity (both spatially and temporally). The combined heat-capacity of the beverages you put in the fridge is, I would guess, about 50 times that of the empty interior (including the glass shelves). If you had rerun your tests with the temperature loggers after filling the fridge with a reasonable amount of food and first letting it reach it's steady-state temperature cycle, you could have thrown a couple of room-temp 6-packs in it with a much more reasonable temperature response curve. On top of that, you should have placed the loggers inside a Tupperware or jar or something so that they would experience temperature changes in the same way that your food will. Even if the air temp got up to say 45F for hours, anything in a container that is isolated from the air won't get nearly that warm. While your Samsung and KitchenAid machines looked respectable in comparison to the Galanz, you would find that basically all cheap top-mount forced-air fridges would perform similarly to yours in a similar test.
I wouldn't call it a shitty low budget fridge, I'd call it a perfect garage fridge. If all it needs to store is beer, Gatorade, and ice packs, it's perfect.
Something important: the fact that the crisper is warmer is a good thing. Most fruit and vegetables that you usually store in the crisper have their optimal storage temperature at 10*C, while for meat, cheese and leftovers, it is 5*C. So by the crisper being slightly warmer it actually improves shelf life of stuff in it.
@@phillipbanes5484 the fibers? You mean the cellulose? What the heck does that matter when the water in the cells freezes, rupturing them and turning the vegetables to mush? I don't push mushy, frost-damaged tomato slices on my sandwiches and tell myself, "well, at least the cellulose fibers are intact."
@@phillipbanes5484 I don't think I need to. My point is that whether or not the fibers freeze has nothing at all to do with the quality of the fruits and vegetables. The fibers as a structural element can not prevent damage from freezing. That was the point made by talkysassis as well. "As long as the fibers do not freeze" is pretty much a nonsensical statement.
Most likely the thermostat was placed near the cooling coils to ensure they don't get too cold or that the compressor runs for too long, which could damage the fridge or cause other issues.
That was my thought. Like an ac unit running so long it freezes over, it probably has a cutoff if it’s been running too long. And since it probably didn’t defrost completely before starting again, it couldn’t run as long, hence the staggered temp drop.
I was thinking the compressor should have a thermal fuse on it, if it gets too hot from running continuously it will need to cool down before resetting.
@@fire304the compressor is cooled by refrigerant. It doesn’t get too warm no matter how long it runs unless the refrigerant is warmer.
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@@fire304 It's actually completely opposite. Unless it's damaged, the compressor should never overheat by itself. After all it pumps a refrigerant that is cooled by condenser coil and then returns as fairly cold gas to be compressed again. Although it is generating heat, it should never overload the compressor. What may happen though is the opposite. Refrigerant has to evaporate in the evaporator (cooling) coil and get back as gas. The pressure drop is roughly constant but the temperature is not. It is cooling, you need to constantly warm it up to let it evaporate fully, otherwise it will just freeze. In AC you have a blower that runs room temperature air over it, in fridges the temperature is a bit lower but does the same thing. Warmer air inside the fridge heats up the cold evaporator coil. If this process does not work (for example you have so much ice buildup, it barely conducts any heat anymore), refrigerant will not fully evaporate and will get back to the compressor as a liquid. Liquids are quite bad at compressing and the compressor will eventually get stuck. Then you will have to wait for quite some time for it to evaporate properly and pressure to equalize before it can start again. So in short, it may get too cold to run and shut off for safety. Then wait for the temperatures to equalize and start again.
its been several months since i had this little gem of a video show up and i just came back to say thank you, ive really enjoyed spending my time with you and your channel. i've learned much and its helped me realize just how interesting somethings i thought to be mundane can be. thank you for sharing your interests and helping others learn ♥
You have an uncanny ability in finding the most boring things and keeping me hooked for the full vid. And I learn stuff in the process. I'm officially TH-cam certified on fridges!
As soon as you showed that first plot after adding a fan I thought to myself "Wow there must be something odd happening with the temperature feedback loop", and after you glossed past that and proceeded to try all those other things I could feel a small part of the engineer inside me writhe in agony.
The full reveal of the first graph gave it away for me. Obviously the fact that it stopped cooling well above the set point was the focus, but the fact that it had very similar cycle times was.. concerning. I definitely didn't guess exactly what was weird about it. Thought maybe the thermo was really a timer or something but that wouldn't make sense for so many reasons. (Arguably it turned out to be kind of a timer, with the timing cycle length being related to the heat capacity of the refrigerant I guess? Still not an actual timer though.)
I am surprised that he did not consider that the way it is originally designed is set up to give the pump a rest once in a while, regardless of the temperature inside of the box, by making sure the probe could get cold even if the box had not reached its target temp. This could also mean they calculated that at x temp at the evaporator, the efficiency is very bad. I will not be surprised if this modified version burns out soon.
@@itoibo4208 "not be surprised if this modified version burns out soon" Unfortunately I agree. The whole planned obsolescence conspiracy theorists, while not entirely wrong, are attributing failures to the wrong things. We have reached an age where a product will be designed to SEEM like it can do the thing, but is meant to run light loads (so the manufacturer can use cheaper electronics and/or hardware, in this case an undersized pump), and therefore when asked to do the thing properly it burns itself out. ie, this thing would need a slightly upsized pump WHEN it burns out. Then itll be fine. Supposing no other copper joints have that corrosive flux left on them like the pump connections did....
@@itoibo4208 Considering the possibility that its intentionally not designed to do what its supposed to do is not really a consideration worth taking into account. A fridge is useless if its not keeping things cold.
I just wanna say thank you! Actually insane thing happened. I’ve been noticing my freezer freezing up in the back but not really thought much of it. Then your video popped up (watched all of it.. I don’t even know why…) and I started thinking “why is it not defrosting”. Turns out, my defrost timer had broken a few days ago which led to build up of frost. And me watching your video told me “oh crap, that’s probably bad.” After watching a few videos on how to replace it, and ordered the part it’s all working! So thank you!! You literally helped fix my fridge and saved my food lol
I find it interesting, that this freezer is called "mini freezer". For me it appears really big. From my point of view, that size is the regular size here in Germany.
Standard American kitchen fridges are usually on the high side of 60-100cm wide and 150-200cm tall, so this is "mini" by that context. Although our mini-fridges are usually half the size of this thing, so it's a very large mini-fridge, even for here.
@@JGuraan This model is about 10 cubic feet of volume, which, in the U.S,, is typically the size found in a smaller apartment, or a travel trailer/RV/"Caravan" (as our friends across the pond might call it). Although, those are typically either a hybrid propane absorption style, or more recently, 12/24v DC.
Having come to Europe from Canada, the fridges always seemed insanely tiny to me. However, being able to walk to multiple grocery stores in 5 minutes offsets it quite a bit. I think a big part of it is the fact that people tend to buy groceries in bulk back home (sometimes out of necessity when it can take upwards of an hour in some areas to go) whereas people seem to like fresh food and often go multiple times a week. I know I personally enjoy being able to leave something cooking while I run out to grab an ingredient or two quickly.
@@grinningdoor Yeah, in most European cities, you can often walk to a small store in less time than it takes to find parking at a supermarket in most American cities. We get more variety here, but it's way less convenient. That means fewer trips and larger hauls.
@@Wrenchmonkey1 yeah no doubt, and the cultural aspect of earlier generations where markets and grocers just simply did not exist (especially on the prairies) means many people tend to have multiple fridges and deep freezes, so it's only logical to fill them up. They are also far more efficient when they're fuller
I love it how you try to understand every fridge I ever owned / encountered and have a lifetime's worth of experience with. It's like a crime story you know the end of, but the protagonist doesn't!
I have a fridge-freezer pretty much exactly like this (on the inside) but I didn't know the inner workings of it, so I still learnt things here. But it is pretty funny indeed to see him being so marvelled by the simplicity and also the unevenness of the heat distribution inside. Of course what I still don't know is whether the temperature probe for the thermostat is as stupidly located in mine as it is in his.
Yeah I was waiting for the fancy tech and slowly realized he just describes your run of the mill fridge here in Germany 😅 Still interesting to have the details explained
That's why I like this guy. In a world where most tech channels would talk about phones, Bluetooth stereos, game consoles, etc., he talks about refrigerators, lava lamps, coffee makers, and simple things like that.
@TechnologyConnections As stated before a german here: The design of the fridge is very common here in germany. Did you measure the temperature of the compressor? Your spike after hours of cooling could be because the compressor shuts down when it gets too hot. My guess would be that the "waterhat" as you described it was empty at that point and couldnt cool the compressor anymore so it had to stop working to cool down, despite of not having done its job. Sidenote: In germany the "safe temperature" for food is considered 8°C (or 46.4° F).
Almost every fridge ive ever had is basically this except its much more plain usually just white And i live in america Tbh i never even knew this wasnt a standard type of fridge here
@@tripplefives1402 yeah, things are getting kind of ridiculous. My grandmother and I went shopping for a fridge recently and I could not persuade her to buy a medium, efficient Freezer-On-Top single hinged fridge if my life depended on it >_> 12 cubic feet would have been plenty for us but the best I could negotiate was a double door 17.5 cu Samsung monstrosity with a drawer freezer on the bottom
I've set an analog thermometer in a glas of water for 40 years on a middle shelf. Because it's more important to know the temp in food than in the air inside the fridge.
I work in a hospital lab, which includes the blood bank. The temperature of the blood products must be well maintained in a narrow range and our fridges have a bunch of sensors and additional logging (paper charts!) as-well. That said we still have manual thermometers in simulated blood bags full of saline.
As another comment points out, this positioning of the sensor was intentional - it was a cheap way to double as a sensor for preventing the compressor from running for too long. Two temperature probes would've been better, but that's more expensive.
the thing is, most of the european fridges are build similarly. the freezer is at the bottom, but other than that, no fans, no double doors, no ice maker and the condensers are in the walls.
Yeah, but as soon as you spend just a little more, you get fans and seperate evaporators. Even any IKEA fridge for around 900 € comes with those features and obviously two separate sensors and a microcontroller. Needless to say, that any decent european kitchen hides the fridge behind doors that are similar to the rest of the design.
I was wondering what was so special about the fridge shown in this video. But apparently fridges in the US work very differently from the ones over here.
Used to rent a place with it's own simple fridge. In fact, here in Brazil our cheapest fridges are, indeed, this simple and mechanical. Had to defrost it manually with the pan trick a few times. Nowadays, frost-free fridges are increasingly common and cheaper but, for the majority of the last century and a portion of the current one, owning a frost-free fridge was a sign of social improvement, as they were expensive and marketed as a feature. I've my own fridge nowadays, thank God the days of defrosting it are over, but it's sure interesting to see how these aspects changes from country to country, especially from developed ones. Also, I'd love to see Alec do a video on the so called "suicide showers", our electric shower heads.
Alec, I absolutely love this style of video. Taking a piece of household technology and breaking it down to its component parts, finding its weaknesses and making them better. All the while giving us an understanding of how it works as well as what little things we can do to have it live a longer life. Absolutely excellent!
Genuinely, if someone told me they had watched an hour long video on a fridge, I'd seriously question their mental state. And yet, this was an instant click. Love this channel.
even before I watched this particular video, if someone told me they had watched an hour long video on a fridge, I'd immediately assume it was from TC... I'd probably ask them to explain to me the refrigeration cycle haha
With it being on the table for a moment there, I felt there was a chance that he had bought two of them, and was going to tear one apart, and put a plexiglass window on it, or something.
The reason(s) for the spikes is a combination of the response speed of the thermostat (as well as it's proximity to the evaporator and the thermal mass of the fridge) and the thermal overload of the compressor. Placing a more sensitive temp probe right next to the thermostat and one by the compressor probably would've showed that. Possibly the reason for utilizing the drip tray as a passive chiller Edit: Having watched the rest of it, you are absolutely correct. But as a suggestion to improve the safe function of the fridge, that original thermostat was probably not intended for use as a practical temp sensor. It seems that it's main purpose was to make sure the evaporator didn't get too cold and create an extreme temp differential within the fridge. Simply tying that in series with the actual controller you upgraded it with would still be useful as a secondary feature to make sure the beer in the back doesn't freeze before the beer on the door even starts getting cold. Yes it'd be a more gradual reduction in temp, but some airflow from a small fan would make sure it wasn't off for too long
I came to a similar conclusion - that bulb was there as the duty cycle control for the compressor - hence the behaviour on cooldown (thats how it SHOULD behave if its loaded that hard with a tiny compressor). He is currently VASTLY overloading the undersized piston compressor and never giving it time to cool down. It NEEDS a max duty cycle like 30 min on 15 min off.
I have always seen those types of bulbs used to control a thermal expansion valve (TXV) in regular old air conditioners. Usually this bulb is directly attached to the evaporator line and covered in insulation tape to monitor the temperature there so it can change how much refrigerant it is releasing into it so as to correctly regulate the temps of the evaporator coil and the condenser coil. This would explain why the fridge basically stopped working after he put it directly into the air of the fridge. It does not expect nearly that high of a temp so it will open the TXV all the way and lower the temperature/pressure split across the evaporator and condenser coils to the point that it would hardly cool anything. Really it wouldn't make sense to use a device like that as a temperature sensor in such a budget refrigerator. Its actually a rather expensive device, made of copper and filled with pressurized refrigerant. Orders of magnitude more expensive than a simple electronic temperature sensor. I suspect the real way the fridge regulates temperature is by using that dial to regulate how long it's cycles last. This would explain why the cycles seemed to have little to do with what temp the fridge was running at.
@@mycosys "so as to correctly regulate the temps of the evaporator coil and the condenser coil. " I came here to say just that, thermal overload protection. But, you have already said it, so I will have to say something else. It's a nice Red colored Fridge and I quite like the chrome.
Really? I've only had fridges that have coils up in the freezer and an evaporator fan that blows freezer air into the fridge. It's pretty cool (pun intended), because the freezer becomes a nice anti-heat buffer for the fridge.
Jep, like 90% of the fridges in Europe are like this. Although most people have a seperate freezer and fridge. And the condensor is somewhat better, with a nice big radiator on the back of the fridge. They work fine tho, I think Technology connection's fridge is just too cheap.
@@Earth-Apple I was surprised that newer ones almost always come without radiator on the back and with pipes in it's sides, like in this video. I read somewhere it's for increased efficiency, and maybe because new popular refrigerant (cyclopentane).
@@arion_vulgaris big advantage to pipes in the walls instead of a radiator on the back is its far less likely to get damaged when some college student is moving out in a hurry...
Thanks for the informative video you’ve put together here. I actually just got this fridge as a backup fridge for beers, water, & sodas, but after having it for a couple days, I realized that it might not be sufficient for keeping food at a safe temperature. Thanks to your great video, I know now that I should just use it as a bar fridge.
The motor shutting off early could be due to a built-in duty cycle limitation. The compressor probably can't run permanently without risking damage, so it has a cutoff if it runs constantly for too long.
@JanRademan YES, there's two control functions at work here. One is the compressor overheat protection and the other one is the thermostat inside the fridge under the evaporator. The first one protects the compressor by limiting how long it runs and the other one is limiting the fridge temperature WHEN the compressor is working within limits. That's why the sensor is near the evaporator.
Duty cycles on refrigerant pumps (the enclosed types like in refrigerators) are usually 100%. There are thermal protection circuits in them but those will usually only engage in the case of limited air flow or component failure.
@@deekman78are you sure? I remember seeing "computer geeks" and overclockers trying to use a fridge compressor and failing because of the duty cycle limit.
@@mohammadalhasan4253 the compressors inside of refrigerators can run 100% duty cycle but they can't be used to pump over a certain amount of wattage, which is where you'd run into issues trying to cool computer components. I found a wine fridge that had 19" wide shelves and considered putting some telco-racked servers in there (think like 4 raspberry pi inside of a case or something, but from 2005). In essence, by design and application fridges remove heat, and no more heat is added. For active cooling there's constant heat being added, and the overall capacity (expressed as tons or whatever) needs to be above and beyond that capacity to run effectively.
I'm amazed at how this guy gets you to watch an hour video about a fridge and still makes it more interesting than the other videos in my ''to watch later'' list 😂 Great video, lot of work making this 💪
I was thinking that too, like... why the @#$% am I still watching this? ............... Oh, so the thermostat was poorly designed? ... So then what happened?? omg
Best channel on TH-cam, and my favorite infotainment of all time. This is exactly what I feel TH-cam was created for. It is the epitome of high quality, informative, entertainment. If I had kids I would watch this together with them knowing they would learn on so many different levels. Alec you have a rare gift my friend.
The thermostats tail fits to an evaporator for a reason, it controlls a defrost cycle. With your current configuration there is no guarantee that defrost cycle will be completed before compressor starts again. So you might have an ice crust on a back wall of a refrigerator. You need to add an evaporator sensor to fix that :)
And that "defrost cycle" is basically just doing nothing for a while. So all it does is limit the compressor duty cycle, which could be due to ice buildup but also to protect that tiny compressor from running for too long and overheating. Not sure if the overload protection on the compressor takes a high run time into account, or that it only trips on a motor stall.
@@Stoney3K my thoughts exactly. I started cringing when he was talking about five hour run times, and then really cringing when he was talking about 14 hour run times. He is bound to have knocked years off the life span of that little compressor.
A lot of these design features seem to be quite common here in Europe, at least every fridge I've come across does everything very, very similarly. With every video you come out, I get an increasing notion that you'd have a blast travelling here and seeing how all our thingymagigs works differently from their US counterparts
I was about to make the comment that this is basically the refrigerator I have in my Helsinki apartment. Not as "retro" looking but just as simple of a design.
Yeah, and this is how the PREMIUM fridges from Samsung work! The cheaper fridges have totally exposed condensers on the back, and barely covered internal evaporators. And yes, we have to defrost them every few months, but you should be cleaning your fridge's internals at least that often anyway, so it's not a big deal!
Same. I've never seen a fridge in Finland that doesn't have completely separate freezer section, nor one without the condenser hidden behind plastic or something allowing defrosting to be done easily.
"This opened up a can of worms (...) And now, I'm dragging you in with me!" There's next to no people on the planet who'd make me smile by saying those words like you did! Love your videos, love your ramblings, love your analysis and descriptions! Every time you appear on my feed I know it's a treat. Hope you're doing well! Stay healthy and nice! :* :)
I laughed too, but I thought maybe having a fan back there that also pushes air past the sides would maybe help a bit with efficiency and longevity. Of course, I am not an HVAC or appliance technician or engineer, but what do I know?
It totally would help. My travel fridge/freezer has one or more (it's got 3 vents but not checked if a fan for each vent or just 1). Still slow, but seems to help.
The interesting thing is the different definition of „food safe temperature“. In Europe in general 4-5°C is considered the optimal temperature of the cooling compartment and -18°C for the freezer. In Germany we even go higher with considering 7°C as optimal temperature of the cooling compartment. And - it is perfectly fine, never had or heard of problems with 7°C.
@@Turtle1631991 True. When I spent weeks in Germany and the UK, I noticed the fridges were tiny and grocery store trips were daily or every other day and they used up all the food they bought in those two days or so. In America, my friends leave leftovers a long time and sometimes I do as well.
I think the temperatures quoted by our different safety organizations mean different things. The way the US food safety recommendations read to me is that your refrigerator should be set no higher than 40°F (4.4°C), but I imagine that that's the average temperature. The UK recommendations (entschuldigung; mein Deutsch ist nicht so gut) for 8°C (46°F) seem to mean that food should never go beyond that. In fact, they recommend that refrigerators be set at a maximum of 5°C (41°F).
@@wbfaulk No, 4 C is not the average temperature in a North American fridge. It's the maximum allowed. Here in Canada, if the health inspector ever sees, during an inspection, that the interior of a food service fridge is higher than 4 C, he checks the food. If it has risen past 4 C the entire fridge contents goes in the garbage. No, I'm serious.
@@paulmaxwell8851 Well, fortunately, I was talking neither about Canada nor commercial refrigeration. Also, when I said "average temperature", I meant the average temperature of the interior of the refrigerator; there is some level of hysteresis in all thermostats, and my guess was that the setpoint of a household refrigerator thermostat is in the middle of that range instead of at the top end. But I didn't explicate that, and I'm also not certain of it anyway. Still, commercial refrigeration is irrelevant. No one is coming into your house and throwing away your groceries if your refrigerator is too warm, regardless of what country you live in.
bro I work for a refrigerator manufacuterer and you did more investigation for a youtube video than our whole research and development team does for a month amazing
I love the way you call this a "mini fridge", in the UK we'd call it a "fridge". The large double door units are often referred to as "American fridges" 🤣
To be fair, we wouldn't call this a mini fridge in the US, we would call it a small fridge. Mini fridges are shorter and typically have the frozen compartment within the top of the single compartment. But this is certainly smaller than most people's fridges here. My fridge is probably 2.5-3 of these big, but would be considered a large fridge, 1.5 of these would be a "normal" fridge size.
I lived in England for 2 years and a large family lived close by (in MIddle Barton, Oxfordshire) and the first thing I noticed in their house was that small fridge.
I have a similar model, and yes, it's difficult keeping the freezer and refrigerator temperatures correct. Soft ice cream and frozen milk are all too common.
@@lonestarr1490 Yup. I can eventually get everything stabilized. The problem is when you show up with new groceries - if you're not careful you'll have issues. It's a level of complexity I'm not used to.
Fun fact those big warning labels are actually warning you about the blowing agent in the styrofoam insulation not the refrigerant itself, that is the much smaller print warning label. I figured that out when figuring out that my freezer and fridge use r134a but still have the cyclopentane warning labels. Also, cyclopentane apparently is not used as a refrigerant and r600a is isobutane.
Ah, that's why it said 'foaming agent', I was wondering about that. I guess, as a refrigerator manufacturer, they have stricter "Prove this isn't a CFC" paperwork than most random companies making insulation, and it's good to know when a plastic insulation foam is the super-flammable kind I suppose. Also, maybe more inert gasses are used in foams that don't have to be that insulating? I suppose it might be tricky to add thermal conductivity to the criteria you have to optimize in gas selection.
This reminded me of a story about a warehouse fire where an employee who got bored wanted to see how well a scrap piece of foam would burn. What he didn’t realize is that the whole reason the rolls of foam were being stored there is so that the flammable gas used to blow them into their foamy form would off-gas in time for shipping. I don’t think even five seconds passed from the lighter being lit before the _entire warehouse_ was ablaze.
@@Intrafacial86 Ah, so THAT is why it was so intense. Never would have figured they pump random polymer foam full of flammable gas, huh (to be fair, never had to think about the way it's made either, but it's a bit unexpected that something as mundane as polymer foam that we encounter even in food packaging might be filled with effectively fuel, even if it's limited to certain types)
I just sat here for an hour watching a fridge video. The way you presented this, wasn't bored one minute! By the way, my dad still has a 1948 fridge purring smoothly in the basement. Quieter than modern fridges, I doubt that any modern fridge will last 75 years.
I honestly forgot until this video that freezers used to get covered in ice and need occasional cleaning. I have these memories rushing back of doing that with my parents.
And I however had no idea that that is a possibility haha here in Switzerland I have never ever seen a fridge with any kind of heater in it. We have the "simple" model in most homes. Oh, it beeps if you leave it open.
As a Brit, I was completely unaware freezers don't do this. I've never seen a freezer that we don't need to de-ice. I sometimes have to knock ice off the door to get them to shut, and every year or so even take out all the food and de-ice it.
professional fridge temperature probes are generally in a small jar of oil to eliminate the problem with being too responsive to brief temperature spikes. (My experience is with medication fridges, and the vial of oil is about the same size as the vials of medication that are being monitored)
Thanks for the video. I really enjoy watching your brainstorm experiments. Trying to improve things can be rewarding and money saving as well. What's nice is that you are doing all the work and the audience is benifiting from your findings.
From Europe: I don't think I've ever seen a fridge/freezer combo that has airflow or a fan between the compartments. I genuinely think every appliance I've ever interacted with has been of the design of your "little red".
I have 200 freezers and fridges in my care at my job and have run many of your experiments! I scratched my head so much in confusion that I had aviable excuse for what many call " male pattern baldness". I have installed thermostat equipment just as you did. But you observed and voiced things you found and it opened my eyes even more. Ah I love duck diving under a nerd wave of refrigeration troubleshooting!
I dont know how I got here, but I’m glad I did because now I know why my not-so modern fridge keeps icing in the back and what that little twisty thing with numbers actually does
That's pretty interesting to watch this as a European, particularly because, as someone else stated down below, this is a pretty regular home fridge here in Europe (or at least Italy where I live). Yes, we're starting to see automatic defrosting, fans, microcontrollers and so on nowadays but this design is still quite common and is used with more powerful compressors too, especially if you plan to spend less than 500 euros (which, by the way, it's like 1/3 of a normal salary here in Italy) on your new fridge. And yes, this fridge doesn't "make" cold but only keeps it, but we would never ever put something warm in the fridge. That's something even the best chefs give out as a pro tip on TV shows. We also would naturally consider that as a useless waste of energy! The only downside is this fridges don't make ice cubes, but it's something we don't need so much. ice-making trays cost nothing and do their job
That "random" shutoff on the little red -- That looks like a safety mechanism of the compressor, not the thermostat, to keep it from drastically overworking and burning out Edit: Also, I recall with older fridges having to adjust the "thermostat" dependent on how full it was. The thermostat acting more as a "how often do we run the compressor" and less of an actual temperature-dependent thing Edit Edit: Hearing that the fridge just wouldn't shut off for nearly a day straight makes me think there's no safety mechanism. Ignore me lol
I also immediately suspected that the compressor overheated, causing the thermal cutout to activate. I diagnose and repair refrigeration systems for a living...
@@jordanstephenson6953 Hey, I can't get parts for my old GE, and the damper is not working right anymore. Is there someone who rebuilds these, offers replacements, or something? Thanks.
I have a feeling the design of the fridge thermostat was a way to limit the duty cycle of the compressor, by partially coupling the thermostat to the evaporator coils. It will run longer when you put a lot of stuff in, but will shut off early before the items have fully cooled, and then moves back into a more regular duty cycle, gradually getting closer to a proper fridge temp.
With a freezer section like that, the ideal way to help it stay cold when adding new things is to keep more (already frozen) mass in there, just like a chest freezer. Just grab a few ice packs and use them to keep empty space filled. Edit: this applies to the refrigerator too.
that's what happens when you rubber stamp pass everyone through high school.. wive's tales replace scientific fact.. the more you have inside, the less the air circulates, the longer the compressor runs, the more heat is generated.. you wont accept it but you are factually incorrect.. call Whirlpool customer service and ask them..
@@jordanabendroth6458 You freeze stuff you don't care about before purchasing stuff you do care about. e.g., fill it with ice pack "ballast" when you start, and then as you move frozen stuff in and out, pull the ice packs out and put them back in. Put another way, if you didn't have a freezer before you bought this, why do you have frozen stuff at all?
@@metaridley1848 'why do you have frozen stuff at all' Because you bought the refrigerator either as your very first fridge/first-at-that-home {many people choose to leave their fridge behind when they sell} or because you're replacing a broken refrigerator disaster where everything is already thawed.
@@jordanabendroth6458 tbh you need to bootstrap it really by turning it on for the first time and letting the thermal mass cool down/freeze before you move food over (or buy a bag of ice and slowly replace the ice as you fill the fridge). I don't need to use all of my freezer space so I have a 2 litre water bottle and a bunch of ice packs (in case I need them) shoved in the top draw. Partly to help add thermal mass, partly as witness items (once my 2 litre bottle froze, I spun it so the small air bubble in there is on the bottom, if I open the draw and see the air bubble on the top then the freezer has as least partially defrosted without me knowing it), and partly as a phase change mass at the top of the freeze to help increase the time the freezer stays frozen should the compressor fail.
0:04 - Literally nobody is surprised by an hour of fridge talk coming from Tech Connections 😂 That's why we show up! So I can lean over the handyman's shoulder and name all the parts while he fixes my appliances that I've somehow broken.
This is exactly the fridge design that I spent my entire life with (except for the red retro outside), and never really considered it could or should be more complex. No idea why one would want wifi in the fridge.
This is interesting to see. This is the only fridge design I have seen for decades in Germany. When you said, putting warm casserole in would bring up the average temperature to unsafe levels, I said "d'oy, of course". But then I remembered how Americans just put hot things in the fridge to be "safe". Here in Germany, we only put room temperature and colder things in the fridge for that exact reason. Food won't spoil that much faster if it cools outside the fridge, and the dreaded "danger zone" for food doesn't matter (when cooling down) if it sits there for a couple minutes...
I'm American and I've never put hot things in the fridge? Maybe it's a southern thing but I always heard from my mom and grandma that if you put hot things in the fridge they'll "sour".
Considering the results with the room-temperature soda bottles, I don't think it could handle ANY food that would be even slightly warm. With the mentioned casserole you'd need to wait at least 6h to get it all the way to room temperature. Much too long for my comfort...
@@bzqp2 The difference may be portion sizes as well. In the US we tend to have rather large dishes of food like the big casserole dish, and I believe it tends to be much smaller on average elsewhere, so fewer leftovers, etc to fridge.
@@bzqp2 Please. He loaded up the whole fridge full of water. Water takes an insane amount of energy to cool and heat. Your shouldn't load up the fridge with everything all at once and expect it to just be cold, and food has some solid content as well, it's not just water. Of course the air temperature in the fridge rides up a little, but so what. There's also plenty of thermal mass in the fridge to keep it from oscillating too badly.
I put a decently warm pan into my fridge once. Never again. I heard a loud "Ping", and had to look for a new glass shelve. Nevermind the efficiency of the fridge, temperature stress inside the glass pans is no joke either.
As someone who's been tinkering with their PC for nearly a month straight for no apparent reason, that "No! Stop it!" had me laughing. I'm glad I'm not alone with running into these sort of insane rabbit holes.
It did make me curious though! A similar question comes to my mind as to whether creating active airflow around the external radiator would increase efficiency. Our built-in fridge with a microwave-oven sitting on top seems to have very little airflow round back at all. However, not having seen any consumer-grade fridges in my life with a fan in that particular area (near the compressor circuit) I assume no major differences are to be found as surely fridge manufacturers would have thought of this option as well.
@@dinkytoy8218My mom’s fridge has a fan that blows over the compressor- but vents into the baseboard area below the cabinets which took years of wondering where the lint on the dishes came from. (Thankfully after having had a cat, mom wipes out all dishes before using, just in case.)
40+ year service tech w/t a couple of thoughts: It's important to realize that that refrigerator is not UK or Euro precision-control food storage refrigerator. It is a N. American style low-energy auxiliary storage / spare / dorm "mini-fridge" - made for drinks and snacks, and priced accordingly. They are cheap, disposable, and work just fine without trying to reverse engineer and improve them to make them smaller versions of our primary kitchen refrigerators which have forced air cooling systems and automatic defrost to keep more temperature critical perishables. Current refrigerators have computer--managed air circulation with potentially multiple sensors, fans, and even refrigerant evaporators to adjust refrigerant proportioning, airflow, and compressor pump rates or cycle. That fridge is what it is. It will gradually extract heat and then economically maintain it. Much like a very compact economy car that gets good fuel mileage, that fridge is purposely underpowered. It is not designed for quick and powerful "acceleration", but sipping energy while it maintains the speed it eventually reaches. It cannot do that by having a powerful "powertrain" (refrigeration system) with a "throttle" (thermostat) that responds immediately to the slightest change in "speed" (temperature). 1) This is a not a forced air evaporator style of heat-exchanger, and the design thermostat is mean to respond to evaporator load feedback. In the static evaporator, the "heat" (above the evaporation point of the refrigerant used) is absorbed from the air in closest contact with the heat exchanging surface. That air in turn absorbs the heat from the air closest to it and so on - from back-to-front. If your Fleer could show the temps inside the sealed cabinet over the progression of several hours, you would see that. Once the door has remained sealed until food load has reached its temperature and the control cycles off, that cold food will act as a significant temperature stabilizer. In most cases, in the routine course of removing or replacing one or two food items with a brief door opening will not require the unit to initiate cooling as relative amount of "heat" introduced by the newly introduced and ambient air, will first be absorbed throughout the chilled food load - esp any glass or metal surfaces. Once the evaporator temp starts to rise the thermostat will close and start the unit. You are essentially trying to add a single element of a forced air convection system to static conduction one- which just creates eddies in the normal heat transfer and makes things worse. It's like strapping just an automotive turbocharger somewhere under the hood of a car and wondering why there's no improved performance. Forced air evaporator systems that have mechanical thermostats also find it critical to moderately insulate the hydraulic sensing tube on the thermostat because they are not connected on or near the evaporator itself, but respond to actual interior cavity air. Without the insulation, you can get thermostat "bounce" or "short-cycling", where an errant air current from opening a door can trigger a thermostat to restart a cooling system before the compressor has completed its pressure equalization - tripping the overload at the compressor. So delay cycle timing is a necessity. 2) This is why it is best not to measure fresh food AIR temps at various zones as they are far too fluid. Measure the temp inside an 8oz glass of tap water. It will be the same as the temp of the stored food.
I spent 22 years as a refrigeration/appliance engineer in the UK, and am very tickled by the fact that you call the fridge in question a ‘mini’ fridge, as it would be a considered a standard fridge-freezer by a lot of people here. In fact, what you would typically think of as a standard fridge freezer is known over here as an ‘American style’, and many people have to have the kitchen totally remodelled to accommodate them, as we’re not used to such large appliances 😂
I bought this exact same fridge for my basement 3 years ago. I keep my house pretty cold (around 63-65*F) and the basement stays around 62*F without any heat or AC turned on. The cooler room temp and seldom opening of the door until college football season kicks off again, makes this and pretty much any fridge very efficient in this environment. But now I want to change out my thermostat....thanks buddy...lol. I am going to buy those data logging temp sensors for all my fridges and freezers. I mainly want to compare differences between the house fridge and separate freezer chests and shop fridges and separate freezer chests. I love your content and the amount of detail you put in there. Keep up the great work.
The best of those GE monitor top fridges had two features that are rare even in today's models. 1- a pedal on one of the front legs to automatically open the door for you if you press it with one of your feet, and 2- a water cooling system with a faucet on the side (cooled drinking water is normally reserved for only vertically split door models today).
I want a top freezer model with ice and water in the freezer door. In the 70's we had one with ice in the door. Nobody had got around to thinking of taking the ice maker water supply and T-ing off to a spigot. But like my favorite PC keyboard layout which nobody has made since 1994, (Look up a Monterey K104), it's been decades since the brief time that top freezer fridges had through the door ice, let alone if any ever had water there too.
My LG LRTLS2403S has a water dispenser and filter inside the fridge compartment, but I've never hooked it up so I'm not sure how much water it would cool at once. Also, I wouldn't recommend it for other reasons.
Replacing the solid shelves with open ones, like wire racks, would help with air movement and convection efficiency. Also for funsies you could get a thermocouple and see if you can fish it down the old thermostat tube to see just how cold the sensing bulb was getting.
Fridges use solid shelves to prevent fluid spills from dripping onto whats directly below that….. thats why fridge shelves are solid while freezer shelves are mesh
@@MrSheckstr Weird. My fridge shelves are all mesh, and the only thing that's ever "spilled" were a few candy bars from the upper shelves, falling into the abyss behind the various jars of sauce and preserves sitting on top of the veggie drawers. I would never, ever trade this mild inconvenience away for bad airflow and strange thermodynamics.
So, there is something you entirely missed. The reason the sensing bulb is placed right next to the evaporator is that you want to know the evaporator temperature. Evap temp and pressure inside it - and thus in relation condenser temp and pressure inside it - are directly related. Thus, keeping those in check is an important performance and safety metric. Modern, electronicly controlled fridges have several sensors. They more often than not have an ambient temperature sensor, a sensor for each temperature zone plus a sensor on every evaporator - how many that might be. The control then controls fans dependent on that. Edit: The energy guide tests at 32C ambient temperature to compensate for door openings.
Does air movement affect the temperature at which evaporation occurs? I mean, intuitively I think it would, but I don't know enough whether that's just because of the resulting increased transfer of heat - i.e. wouldn't it only be a problem if the blowing air is hitting the thermostat? Edit: apparently "wind speed" affects evaporation because it effectively reduces the pressure of water vapor and therefore enables it to occur at higher temperatures. 😂
I think the primary problem with this set up is a lack of active cooling of the hot loop or even good passive cooling. Every fridge I have ever owned had an external hot loop on the back of the fridge (on standoffs so it's not touching the fridge) with cooling fins. A couple of them had the hot loop in a plastic case with a fan drawing air from in the front of the fridge at the ground. The cooling fins massively increase the surface area and keeps the hot loop much cooler. This design has the hot loop inside the fridge bunched up against a steel side with much less surface area.
This is exactly what I was thinking.the sensor is a safety feature to ensure that the evaporator is never 'unevaporated'. If it is getting close to that lets stop the cycle. If it's far from it, it's probably not cold enough inside the fridge so let's continue. The compressor cycles will be the same size/frequency as it's much more dependent on the compressor than the thermal mass inside or convection etc.
This was my guess, that the temp probe is trying to measure multiple things. That is always doing the same cycle time it is probably trying to make the compressor stay within some limited duty cycle range most of the time with just a little allowance for big spikes.
I thought the same thing - and commented that there may be a tradeoff with efficiency vs. desired setpoint going on here, and they were aiming more towards overall efficiency (maybe to meet some government regulation, or just for competition).
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 88 | คู่เอก "ป้อมเพชร vs อัสลามจอน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ZqTVVbMgbo/mqdefault.jpg)
"In order to simulate a well-stocked fridge, I stocked my fridge well"
Bless this man
Lol, I hope he ate the jar of pickles, didn't get bread and butter pickles by accident.
timestamp?
@@marsdeimos4301 It's definitely somewhere between 0:00 and 1:00:00
@@Magpie_MediaI just checked and you are indeed correct.
@@Magpie_Media - This answer is underated. LOL
If this man made a six hour long documentary on the drying properties of different types of wall paint, I'd still watch it.
Underrated comment
As someone who is watching this video while trying to make my paint dry - yes please!
I mean loik..why is he not?!
Same
yes please
Most youtubers are worried they can't hold an audience for 2 minutes, meanwhile you are an absolute legend and trust us to stick with you for an hour. And you are not wrong! Love every second of it!
Because we're all nerds, we like deep dives in devices and tech. We are the exception to the modern short attention span viewer who watches TH-cam shorts.
@@randybobandy9828🤓🤓🤓
/s
@@skylovescars69420 "/s" 🤓
Probably because he has a talent for making white goods actually seem interesting.
rempember that there is a video on his second channel where we watch him boil water for an our to compare gas and electric stove
This is a scary accurate portrayal of what engineering looks like at times.
The chaos also reminds me of my silly idea of someday building a kart with a steering wheel that controls angular velocity of the wheels instead of position.
Your idea is crazy... but I love it.
Wait it's supposed to not look like this sometimes? I swear I've only ever educatedly guessed my way into solutions LOL
Congratulations! You have just invented brake steering! Sadly someone implemented it to basically all agri-tractors and all tanks before differential steering
Oh god, why do i feel like that go kart is a thing. Btw they made the fridge this way hoping that if the door ever opened, it wouldn’t kill the fridge. Especially for a company who’s biggest customer is motels and hotels. They just have to be good enough. Tbh i don’t even understand that fridge because ive seen plenty that have electronics. There was a bunch that were TEC cooled. One died every other day. They were awful. Probably would be great if there was two or 4 but they only use one. They are sensitive to over current, which they always end up doing
That sounds kinda like fpv drones..?
i am a Refrigeration tech, and I would like to give you some insights, so the type of mechanical thermostat this fridge, (actually the type most small commercial units use) is actually quite interesting. When you adjust the knob your not actually changing the temperature at which the switch closes. It is what's known as a fixed cut in switch, meaning what you are actually changing with the knob is the differential between the cut-in and cut-out temperatures, they are used to essentially make an extremely simple auto defrost. by attaching the switch to only a uniform diameter tube instead of a sensing bulb the pressure the switch sees is the average of the entire tubes length. then by inserting that tube inside the evaporator we get an average evaporator temperature. all you need to do then is calibrate the switch so that it takes an average temperature of 33deg. along its length before it has enough pressure to overcome the snap action and you can be sure the evaporator will defrost entirely every off cycle. Also, as you already found out in your testing, because you are reading evaporator temp and not air temp, when the refrigeration circuit has more BTU capacity than the refrigerator evaporators absorption capacity (a necessity with this series freezer design.) The thermostat will always satisfy before bring the box to the desired temp whenever the thermal load inside the box is larger than the evaporator capacity.
Thanks for this comment! I was kind of interested about the thermostat specifically, since I had a fridge tech replace a part in my fridge recently. He mentioned something about how the dial doesn’t actually set the temp, and I was a bit confused by that but didn’t ask him to elaborate. I think this is what he was alluding to!
I was looking for that comment.
I was thinking about the possibility of a thermal cut off switch on the compressor.
The compressor gets too hot from a 100% duty cycle, cut off does its thing to protect the compressor, fridge warms up but compressor cools off.
From my limited understanding of your explanation, that's not the case.
Rather the "thermometer" is getting too cold too quickly, in effect, to detect the correct temperature and needs to pause and acclimatise before it can work again.
@@35manningyeah it’s to stop liquid getting back into the compressor
Thank you. I was going nuts that he got it wrong.
I can't wait for the final instalment of this series on the refrigeration cycle where we see Alec build his own refrigerator from scratch. 😂
Needs to be multi stage and also produce Liquefied gasses tho…
Maybe he can DIY an air conditioner that uses CO2 as refrigerant
@@JamesRibe I'd be impressed since CO2 heat pumps require very high pressure.
@@BenWolkWeiss Propane is one of the sort of "refrigerants de jour" due to simplicity, good performance, relatively low pressure, availability, low(ish) impact as a climate impactor if it leaks, and honestly, it is quite hard to blow up if it leaks - requires a pretty precise fuel air mix to burn (goes by R-290)
"available at your local Meijer!"
It is comforting to know that there is someone else in the world who exerts considerable time and effort on such projects.
These are the people that built our world
I have this EXACT fridge, well, black. Fits perfectly in my 250 sq ft San Francisco studio, and has been a really good fridge so far. The self-defrosting feature has been the best, as my last fridge needed to literally have ice chipped away every month, this thing gets almost no frost, and when it does, it is gone within a day. At least now I understand why the sides get warm :) As far as the temp zones, they can be annoying until you figure the out, then they become useful. I like my fridge colder than usual, but this causes things in the very back of the fridge, especially on the top shelves to freeze, had this happen to eggs. I turned this into a useful feature, anything I want extra cold, such as soda, meats, etc goes on the top near the back. It works out for me personally, but I also have a BAS in Culinary arts, I can see how this could be a headache for someone without cooking experience.
I also have this fridge and I do the same. I keep my eggs in the drawer on the bottom. It's the only fridge that fits in my 1947 kitchen so I'm happy with it.
Before this video I didn't even know fridges could have uniform temperature. What to store where is something my mom taught me when I grew up.
I also have this as an overflow/garage fridge but since all it has in it is Beer and Soda, it's fine for that.
Alec, fun fact for you to keep in mind when building your own "Fridge" is that when I was an apprentice refrigeration Mechanic in the 1970s and worked in a factory making commercial refrigerators for well known brands of Ice cream and soda. The Cap tube and length of copper pipe was determined by trial and error (The compressor size could be calculated very easily by using well known BTU / volume math) We would take a length of Capillary tube and try different lengths and diameters (It comes in many different thicknesses) cut a length and test it for a few days with a recorder inside and then try a different length and diameter. We got pretty good at it and could predict how much to use by when we got a consistent result and the lowest Amperage drawn over the same length of time. Yes power draw changes by the diameter and length of the cap tube.
By the way, a smart thing to mention was that the cap tube was wrapped around the suction line just before entering the compressor for the purpose of "Heat exchanging" the heat left over from the condenser entering the evaporator and stopping liquid from entering the compressor as liquid is non condensable.
Love your channel so please keep it up.
I've got to imagine they've improved how to determine all this in a faster and less wasteful method in the last 50yrs...
@@garbonzobear no kidding?? I really did think there was a better way in the last 50-something years. not claiming to be an engineer
@@slaternapier1640f we're being 100% honest, the hvac-r industry is basically identical mechanically to how it was 50 years ago. The parts doing the work have changed slightly and gotten more efficient, but ultimately it's the exact same tech. 100% serious. That will be changing some soon but even with high end variable speed stuff it's still the exact same principles applied in different ways
I want to clarify what I mean some. Obviously it's changed but it's really come down to experiments, math, science and trial and error just like before. But the end result is still a circuit with an evaporator, condenser, metering device and a compressor. Sure now it might flow both ways, and your metering device (in HVAC more than R) is a piston orifice or an expansion valve, but it's still the same layout and design. Just achieved a little different
@@slaternapier1640Fluids are notorious for being impossible to simulate when no longer laminar.
I legit just bought this exact fridge on Facebook marketplace a couple weeks ago with the intention of making it the main fridge for a household of 2. I normally would not want to watch a 60 minute video about a random fridge, but ya got me on this one. Well done sir.
Now, do you mean the same model, or this EXACT fridge? Because you might want to double check he really did fix the wiring before you use it.. :)
@@ElectraFlarefire There is the unnecessary pedantry that fuels this channel! Keep at it.
And now you know how to fix it and it will only cost you like $20.
@@ReivecS Pedantry fuels everything technically complex in the world surely
@@ElectraFlarefire Haha. Very on brand for the channel. Let me be clear, this exact model in this exact color. Not this exact unit.
This is one of the nerdiest detective stories ever but it's also incredibly captivating and entertaining.
So basically just what I subscribed for.
Big fan here. I repair fridges for a living, and i really liked this video, it was really fun seeing you figure out what's happening. Here in europe these kinds of fridges are really common. So the thermostat sensor is placed on the middle of the evaporator, the thermostat wont let the compressor start until it is fully defrosted. It is made this way so it wont accumulate frosting in the fridge and the compressors running long periods of time will overheat and can cause the motor coil to get damaged. Keep in mind that these compressors are not that efficient. The temperature issues was solved with a bigger evaporator and a fan placed above it. The fan only runs when the compressor is running and the door is closed. Really nice video
Oh so there is a reason for the placement, not just it being a mistake! That kinda makes sense, it's the sort of design that works "good enough" and is cheap. It might explain why the advice to not put warm things in the fridge and to keep it decently full if possible is so commonplace. I remember recently Alex talked about how the energy used to cool something a few more degrees isn't that much, but perhaps the advice comes more from the fridge's lack of precise temperature regulation and the recovery time rather than really the energy saving!
Fun video, my very standard fridge here in the UK is basically this exact thing but without the fancy red design. With the addition of a switch for freezing food that just keeps the light on low inside the fridge giving it more to cool, therefore making the freezer compartment colder.
Since you're a professional: the seals touch an heated part to avoid them to stick, right? Is it a resistance or part of the evaporator circuit?
And can this heat have been contribute to the results of the loggings of this video?
@@PaoloSulprizio I'm afraid I don't understand your question. There is no heater in these kinda fridges, the evaporator in the fridge side defrosts because of the temperature difference between the evaporator and the air inside the fridge, and this is how it cools the fridge. Fridges that use resistors have it in the freezer compartment and it only defrosts when it needs to (when enough ice accumulates on them).
@@gerebalpar7712 I'm speaking about the doors seals
@@PaoloSulprizio oh sorry i get it. On the back side of the fridge is the condensator, the black grill, which gives out heat. A part of it is incorporated inside the body of the fridge where the seals touch the body. The reason for that is that it has more surface area to give up heat and the heat keeps the seals soft through the years. Older models didn't have it and the seals became stiff and ruptured
For the thermostat, it isn't a sensing bulb but just the end soldered off. It uses a fluid pressure in the tube along it's entire length to actuate a switch in the dial portion of the thermostat. I use these style sensors as low or high cut offs in air handling units
In good ones, the end has a larger volume of fluid, thus making the end more sensitive than the tube . Though the one in the red fridge may have failed to do that, resulting in bad regulation .
thanks, that actually answers my question of how that "temperature sensor" works, basically it's just a long thin flexible "mercury" thermometer (but not mercury)
@@JerryAsher typically they have refrigerant in them. We string them along in front of air handler coils to pick up the relative temperature and if it gets too low it sets off a freeze alarm and shuts the unit down and then can do the same thing on the steam side for the heat etc
I am amazed how you can make a 1-hour video about a fridge, and I'll watch every second of it.
Never change.
Right? This is some of the most boring content on the internet, yet I'm fascinated when watching this channel.
I watched that whole series about how I'm using dish washer wrong(multiple times), while I never even used one.
This is the content I subscribe for!
Watching fridge videos between your trips i see
Yes. I watched the entire half hour. (On 2x speed)
I think my favorite part about this channel is that it touches so many nerds in so many different ways. Like the fridge engineer probably watched this video and was like "Uhhh.... yeaah duh..." and maybe even added something in the comments, but the sprinkler dude was fascinated by this video while he watched the rotating sprinkler video shocked that more people didn't know these things already.
HOLY SHIT THANK YOU FOR MAKIHNG THIS VIDEO. I live on a boat and my only fridge is a magic chef mini fridge. it is basically identical to this fridge in terms of having the same insides and the only differences are on the outside and are cosmetic. You have given me so many explanations for things that hadve had me puzzled about my fridge for ages. things like everything in my freezer being melted and me wondering how it could have possibly happened with the door closed(i now think it was after putting a semi warm crock pot in the fridge). the freezer working a little too well sometimes that you physically cant scoop ice cream without thawing it first and have to cook frozen food much longer than the directions say. things on the back wall of the fridge being frozen solid while things in the door and drawer are just cool. cheese and milk going bad well before their expiration date when they are inside the bottom drawer.
you gave me so much good knowledge about how this fridge works and it will forever change how I fill and arrange my food in it... as soon as I got done watching this video I immediately went and rearranged all of the food in my fridge. THANK YOU for unlocking the mysteries of the universe for me and helping me hopefully not have spoiled milk and cheese anymore
"cheese and milk going bad well before their expiration date when they are inside the bottom drawer" the bottom drawer is meant to be kinda slightly warm for veggies and stuff
@@roadsidegarage69 When you are living permanently out of a mini fridge you might not always be able to fit everything neatly into the preassigned zones. Regardless of if it contains veggies or milk, it needs to cool to safe food temps.
@@frankiemillcarek6976 you either freeze the veggies or have "food safe" temps
If anyone would have told me previously that I would willingly sit through an hour long video about a "mini" fridge, I would never have believed them. Your level of detail and thoroughness piqued my inner nerd and your hysterical tongue in cheek comedic delivery made this a complete joy to watch. Thank you for your content! Outstanding work!
Be sure to see his two(!) videos in dishwashers!
I have recommended this channel so many times to people and they always think I'm crazy!
"Yes, it's actually about a can opener, and it's thrilling!"
@@arthurdurham Lol, I bought a safety can opener after watching his video about them. :)
@@timsimpson5129 I've bought a few and often recommend them, but most people complain that you can't squish the liquid out of cans if the lid is larger than the can, and while it's kind of a silly argument, i am all for laziness. I like the safety ones because if my pets get into the trash they're not going to cut themselves on a sharp can of chili or whatever.
@@genewitch plus they never go dull.
It took me a while to find a good manual safety can opener, but I don't see myself ever going back
Makes sense for Alec to buy something and then spend months obsessing over it and analyzing it, then making a weirdly fascinating video about the whole ordeal.
Well done!
I just watched an entire 1 hour show on a low budget fridge. I was completely encapsulated by the development of events from beginning to end. Just to find out why it was 1 whole hour. Good job.
ME TOO! 😱
Ok cool ( pun intended), I am not the only person that was throughly entertained by this. What a neat little detective story and conclusion.
& listened fully to the elevator music outro
Welcome to Technology Connections!
Captivated, even! I love Alec’s deep dive videos.
As a former refrigerator repair technician I love older analog refrigerators. Usually you can tell just by the sounds it makes what the problem is.
You made me laugh several times because I would think..."Just add a little fan inside. That will fix it." And then you do. And down the rabbit hole we went together.
Yet, the fan outside directly wire to the compressor.
As it, it fans the compressor when the compressor is working.
I was thinking to give it a bigger more powerful compressor tbh
I was thinking the same thing with "Just take the temperature sensor out of the walls and put it in the fridge, surely that'll fix it!"
and then it did not
I was thinking that he should add his own temperature control circuit, and then he did exactly that
@@xavierwedel4691 using R134a...
It's not weird that you did an hour long video on a fridge, and it's also not weird that I sat down in excited anticipation to watch it.
I can't believe I watched this while working out, lol.
Tell that to my wife, won't you? 😀
Me too, loved it. What a great way of telling us stuff!
23:15 it ABSOLUTELY was a factor! like my other comment said, fridges rely heavily on the thermal mass of their contents to maintain their temperature.They are not designed to cool things quickly, they are designed to maintain a cold temperature. In the commercial kitchen they have special things known as "blast chillers" that are designed for the actual purpose of cooling down hot things. Even a commercial cooler is not designed to make hot things cold. You need thermal mass!
This and compressor size and the amount of space % wise taken by the cans makes a humongous difference.
This is 100% what is happening
With the way the freezer was overperforming, he could have used the freezer to carry some of the cooling load as well, transferring the already chilled cans to the fridge when they were ready
I knew about that phenomenon years ago, I think I was taught it by my mother? I know she would "admonish" us if we left the freezer empty.
-
When I left my previous apartment, I put a cheap store brand gallon of water in the freezer and the refrigerator to keep the unit from breaking itself.
My outgoing landlord didn't know about that reasoning and thanked me for the care.
-
Because I regularly end up emptying all of the food out of my freezer (by cooking it) I keep not only the ice trays in there, but also two or three of those plastic containers popcorn kernels come in, filled with water and constantly frozen.
Since I added those, my refrigerator runs a little less often.
I was amazed how far I had to scroll to find someone who was going to tell him he is wrong. It's a pretty simple difference, imagine you are changing the total internal average temperature by 50F on one fridge and 15F on another and pretending that the tests are comparable.
Listening to your videos brings me a kind of joy like I've never known before. It's like sitting with an old friend chatting about anything and having a good old time.
I think most fridges here in Europe use this design. Our most recent one came with two thermal ballasts to put in the freezer with instructions to keep them there if you're not keeping products in there too help with efficiency.
Yes, I think this design was the standard even 30 years ago. And they do last 30 years or more!
I was thinking the same - I'm sure my 20+ year old Beko fridge / freezer works just like the red one, and it's what we in the UK would consider a 'normal' size too, not a mini one.
Similarly its common practice to just put big bottles of water in the freezer if its not full here too! As you say to act as a thermal ballast of sorts.
Same here. Though more modern ones use fans and digital readouts, I have never seen a fridge where the evaporator was not embedded in the wall - except reakly old ones where they formed a small freezer compartiment.
We sekdomly see the double door fridges here. They became popular a decade ago, but it seems to have gone away - which might be because European houses are more compact.
Same in New Zealand. Through the whole video I was thinking "Isn't this just how fridges work?".
How on earth did I find an hour long video on a refrigerator to be this captivating? This was really enlightening- thank you!
I know! And hes right about the data looger rabbit hole!
Right? I wish he was one of my teachers growing up! I would have actually paid more attention and actually retained knowledge in school
Storytelling!
I'm still waiting for him to do an episode on trash cans, I bet the rabbit hole and detailed explanations and history would be fascinating!
I can’t watch his videos before bed or I get so wound up I can’t sleep and have to skip work the next day.
I used to be an appliance repairman 20 years ago. We always recommended keeping a fridge full. The oldest guy would always tell people to fill cool whip bowls with water and put them on empty shelves.
👍 Larger thermal mass == More stable temperature.
Random barely related gripe, Great British Bake-Off had an ice cream challenge where the secret pitfall was that the bakers were not to chill their ice cream mix in the freezer of their fridge before putting it in the ice cream machine, as that would cause the freezer to become too warm to finish freezing their soft -serve.
Moderately annoyed me, not just because the constant I was rooting for did badly because she didn't know that, but because... A normal home baker's freezer is a bit more temperature stable than that! Why are you pinning the pitfall of this challenge on the bakers knowing how an empty freezer works? Surely their home freezer has stuff in it that will carry enough thermal mass to quick-chill their custard and then 20 minutes later finish freezing their ice cream...
That's funny, because I use two liter soda bottles filled with water, or milk jugs. And or plastic 'ice packs'... or whatever containers I have around. The idea is that you fill up the empty space with these and they freeze... and when you need more room, you can take one out (I switch them over to the fridge, then put them back as the freezer empties).
@@AppleIPie That's one of my least favorite cooking shows of all time. I had to stop watching, after only a handful of episodes. I just couldn't take the constant cringe. To be honest, I can't stand cooking competitions.
@@hxhdfjifzirstc894 and if the power goes out, they stay cold longer
Update: I've been using this as our household fridge for a family of 2 for the last 6 months. I added a smart thermostat to the door which sends a push notification to my phone if the temperature rises to 40 degrees. Early on I received a few push notifications after stocking. To mitigate this issue we've used a couple of re-usable ice packs to help maintain temp. We keep one in the freezer and one in the door and swap them when we restock the fridge. This simple hack has prevented it from ever hitting 40 degrees again.
Genius!!
Manual "latent heat"!
:D
I wonder if having a fan blowing on the condenser would help make this thing run a bit cooler?
@davecrupel2817 the condensers in the walls of the fridge can't put a fan
I love your low key sense of humour. As a 75 y/o nerd who is somewhat "on the spectrum", I find the way you tackle subjects/ topics like this irresistable. I have, over the years, gotten myself bogged down in projects that seemed to be bottomless pits of time and ingenuity, so I can relate all too well. So it's quite a relief to know that I'm not the only crazy tinkerer on the planet.
"I have, over the years, gotten myself bogged down in projects that seemed to be bottomless pits of time and ingenuity, so I can relate all too well."
I may only be 70 but I can relate all too well too.
I have, quite often, started a job and got halfway through, cursing the last person to fix it with duck tape and snot until I realise that was me.
It seems age is not the problem because I recall a time I, in my early 20s, drilled the trunk lock off a '69 Cadilac Fleetwood only to find a ladder I thought I had lost. The key was on my keyring.
I can concur on these statements as well. Nobody in my usual peer groups or family members ever understood this and were (mostly) never interested in my findings aside from my late mother, who always found something interesting in what I had to say.
Though on the flip side, these days I do find people who are interested because they also are curious and perhaps not afraid to learn more, but never tinkered or learned.
Weird how skills nobody else wanted in the past suddenly become useful. Especially for younger people who didn’t grow up straddling the old world and new one quite like my age group did.
Amen.
@@Jack_Russell_Brown Yes, that's mine also.
we would love you on tumblr we're all autistic nerds
R600a is Isobutane, for those wondering. It’s composition is exactly like butane, only it’s put together in a different way that makes it behave differently, especially as far as boiling point.
In refrigeration butane boils at a balmy -0.4C, while Isobutane’s boiling point is -11.75C. The lower boiling point means it has capacity to absorb more heat at lower temperatures.
R600a is very often used als refrigerant becaus it acts very near to R12.
And the manifacturer likes it, my 2-door fridge/freezer uses 52 Gramm of this.
And i found the manuals of all my older fridges that are scrapped years ago and all of them used R600a.
Which is also why isobutane is the a popular fuel choice for cold weather backpacking/camping stoves.
@@michaeldemanche4162 If you want use your gas stove in cold an thin air, 5-15% Isobutane is recomendet. But its much more expensive, its only useful in cold climat like high altitude climbing or polar traveling.
@@Schutti73 I'm talking about the canister fuels which are sold for backpacking stoves. The most popular brands (MSR, GSI Outdoors, and Snow Peak), marketed as all-season, have 80%, 70%, and 75% isobutane respectively. With propane making the remainder. You're right though, they are more expensive than propane, but not too expensive.
"Automatic defrost added complexity, and that came with costs. First: cost."
Alec, you just... you get me, man.
Unbelievable. I have watched three of your videos so far. Extension cords, dishwasher tips and now this. Your cadence, delivery, explanations and all the work you put in really pulled me in. I’m mean, an hour on a fridge and I wanted more! Bravo. 👏
This was actually super interesting. Showing the full debugging process and not just explaining the end result is something we all need more of.
you can try using grills instead of a a solid plastic for the shelves like the old fridges used to have, it was the way to ensure proper convection before the fan times
I have a decently old (~15 years) and cheap fridge in my apartment with the same cooling design as the one in the video, I never thought about why my fridge had grills and your comment made a lightbulb go on over my head.
I sometimes wish they started using those again. I understand they're easier to clean but some of the glass and plastic shelves are extremely flimsy.
My upright freezer has grill shelves that are the actual cooling elements!! It's bonkers.
We still have those shelves in food service reach-in cooler units. The main difference from the old consumer units is the wire rack shelves have an antimicrobial plastic coating. I'm not sure one could usefully install pilaster strips in a modern conventional consumer model refrigerator, but they and the brackets to hold wire rack shelving are cheap enough. The shelves are not cheap however.
@@OstrichWrestler YES i've got an LG with those glass shelves and some of the plastic bits broke within like a month. It's gonna be a bear to replace, if I ever get tired of the duct tape -- it's like $80 for the replacement shelf and you can't just get the plastic frame, it's got new glass and all.
The corrosion you are seeing on the braze joints is from flux that is needed to help join the dissimilar metals (copper and steel) on either end of the condenser. Residual flux forms malachite on the copper end that looks alarming, but is really harmless. The only reason to clean up the joints is for Instagram, it's not autocatalytic like some forms of corrosion, so it won't get worse over time. If you look at either end of the condenser on your KitchenAid you will almost certainly see the same thing.
The "capillary and bulb" style mechanical thermostat in your fridge actually doesn't have a bulb. It has a rounded tip where it was closed on the end, but that doesn't contain any more vapor than the rest of the capillary. Which is to say that it isn't measuring temperature at the "sensor bulb," it's measuring temperature across the full length of the capillary. It may be that the positioning of the thermostat guide tube wasn't perfect relative to the inner liner and the evaporator, but I think you are making a much bigger fuss about this than you ought to. If you perform the same experiment in your chest freezer you will get similar results in terms of temperature inhomogeneity (both spatially and temporally). The combined heat-capacity of the beverages you put in the fridge is, I would guess, about 50 times that of the empty interior (including the glass shelves). If you had rerun your tests with the temperature loggers after filling the fridge with a reasonable amount of food and first letting it reach it's steady-state temperature cycle, you could have thrown a couple of room-temp 6-packs in it with a much more reasonable temperature response curve. On top of that, you should have placed the loggers inside a Tupperware or jar or something so that they would experience temperature changes in the same way that your food will. Even if the air temp got up to say 45F for hours, anything in a container that is isolated from the air won't get nearly that warm. While your Samsung and KitchenAid machines looked respectable in comparison to the Galanz, you would find that basically all cheap top-mount forced-air fridges would perform similarly to yours in a similar test.
Who knew you could make an hour-long mystery adventure out of a refrigerator
I honestly love how so many of us became so engaged that we watched an hr long video on a shitty low budget fridge is a testament to this channel
He will be missed, rip man!! :( hope his wife updates the channel
@@maddawgzzzz what?
I wouldn't call it a shitty low budget fridge, I'd call it a perfect garage fridge. If all it needs to store is beer, Gatorade, and ice packs, it's perfect.
This fridge has been my saving grace since 2019. It is far from "crappy budget fridge" you can get.
@@tomaszwota1465jebait or he's a bot
Something important: the fact that the crisper is warmer is a good thing.
Most fruit and vegetables that you usually store in the crisper have their optimal storage temperature at 10*C, while for meat, cheese and leftovers, it is 5*C.
So by the crisper being slightly warmer it actually improves shelf life of stuff in it.
@@phillipbanes5484 No. Some of them get really messy if cold enough
yes. that's why it's opposite the freezer @@talkysassis
@@phillipbanes5484 Onions and tomatoes are common examples
@@phillipbanes5484 the fibers? You mean the cellulose? What the heck does that matter when the water in the cells freezes, rupturing them and turning the vegetables to mush? I don't push mushy, frost-damaged tomato slices on my sandwiches and tell myself, "well, at least the cellulose fibers are intact."
@@phillipbanes5484 I don't think I need to. My point is that whether or not the fibers freeze has nothing at all to do with the quality of the fruits and vegetables. The fibers as a structural element can not prevent damage from freezing. That was the point made by talkysassis as well. "As long as the fibers do not freeze" is pretty much a nonsensical statement.
Most likely the thermostat was placed near the cooling coils to ensure they don't get too cold or that the compressor runs for too long, which could damage the fridge or cause other issues.
That was my thought. Like an ac unit running so long it freezes over, it probably has a cutoff if it’s been running too long. And since it probably didn’t defrost completely before starting again, it couldn’t run as long, hence the staggered temp drop.
I was thinking the compressor should have a thermal fuse on it, if it gets too hot from running continuously it will need to cool down before resetting.
@@fire304the compressor is cooled by refrigerant. It doesn’t get too warm no matter how long it runs unless the refrigerant is warmer.
@@fire304 It's actually completely opposite. Unless it's damaged, the compressor should never overheat by itself. After all it pumps a refrigerant that is cooled by condenser coil and then returns as fairly cold gas to be compressed again. Although it is generating heat, it should never overload the compressor. What may happen though is the opposite. Refrigerant has to evaporate in the evaporator (cooling) coil and get back as gas. The pressure drop is roughly constant but the temperature is not. It is cooling, you need to constantly warm it up to let it evaporate fully, otherwise it will just freeze. In AC you have a blower that runs room temperature air over it, in fridges the temperature is a bit lower but does the same thing. Warmer air inside the fridge heats up the cold evaporator coil. If this process does not work (for example you have so much ice buildup, it barely conducts any heat anymore), refrigerant will not fully evaporate and will get back to the compressor as a liquid. Liquids are quite bad at compressing and the compressor will eventually get stuck. Then you will have to wait for quite some time for it to evaporate properly and pressure to equalize before it can start again.
So in short, it may get too cold to run and shut off for safety. Then wait for the temperatures to equalize and start again.
That was exactly my thought as well.
its been several months since i had this little gem of a video show up and i just came back to say thank you, ive really enjoyed spending my time with you and your channel. i've learned much and its helped me realize just how interesting somethings i thought to be mundane can be. thank you for sharing your interests and helping others learn ♥
You have an uncanny ability in finding the most boring things and keeping me hooked for the full vid. And I learn stuff in the process. I'm officially TH-cam certified on fridges!
As soon as you showed that first plot after adding a fan I thought to myself "Wow there must be something odd happening with the temperature feedback loop", and after you glossed past that and proceeded to try all those other things I could feel a small part of the engineer inside me writhe in agony.
I also had flash backs to control theory
The full reveal of the first graph gave it away for me. Obviously the fact that it stopped cooling well above the set point was the focus, but the fact that it had very similar cycle times was.. concerning. I definitely didn't guess exactly what was weird about it. Thought maybe the thermo was really a timer or something but that wouldn't make sense for so many reasons. (Arguably it turned out to be kind of a timer, with the timing cycle length being related to the heat capacity of the refrigerant I guess? Still not an actual timer though.)
I am surprised that he did not consider that the way it is originally designed is set up to give the pump a rest once in a while, regardless of the temperature inside of the box, by making sure the probe could get cold even if the box had not reached its target temp. This could also mean they calculated that at x temp at the evaporator, the efficiency is very bad. I will not be surprised if this modified version burns out soon.
@@itoibo4208 "not be surprised if this modified version burns out soon"
Unfortunately I agree. The whole planned obsolescence conspiracy theorists, while not entirely wrong, are attributing failures to the wrong things. We have reached an age where a product will be designed to SEEM like it can do the thing, but is meant to run light loads (so the manufacturer can use cheaper electronics and/or hardware, in this case an undersized pump), and therefore when asked to do the thing properly it burns itself out. ie, this thing would need a slightly upsized pump WHEN it burns out. Then itll be fine. Supposing no other copper joints have that corrosive flux left on them like the pump connections did....
@@itoibo4208 Considering the possibility that its intentionally not designed to do what its supposed to do is not really a consideration worth taking into account. A fridge is useless if its not keeping things cold.
I just wanna say thank you! Actually insane thing happened. I’ve been noticing my freezer freezing up in the back but not really thought much of it. Then your video popped up (watched all of it.. I don’t even know why…) and I started thinking “why is it not defrosting”. Turns out, my defrost timer had broken a few days ago which led to build up of frost. And me watching your video told me “oh crap, that’s probably bad.” After watching a few videos on how to replace it, and ordered the part it’s all working!
So thank you!! You literally helped fix my fridge and saved my food lol
I find it interesting, that this freezer is called "mini freezer". For me it appears really big. From my point of view, that size is the regular size here in Germany.
Standard American kitchen fridges are usually on the high side of 60-100cm wide and 150-200cm tall, so this is "mini" by that context. Although our mini-fridges are usually half the size of this thing, so it's a very large mini-fridge, even for here.
@@JGuraan
This model is about 10 cubic feet of volume, which, in the U.S,, is typically the size found in a smaller apartment, or a travel trailer/RV/"Caravan" (as our friends across the pond might call it). Although, those are typically either a hybrid propane absorption style, or more recently, 12/24v DC.
Having come to Europe from Canada, the fridges always seemed insanely tiny to me. However, being able to walk to multiple grocery stores in 5 minutes offsets it quite a bit. I think a big part of it is the fact that people tend to buy groceries in bulk back home (sometimes out of necessity when it can take upwards of an hour in some areas to go) whereas people seem to like fresh food and often go multiple times a week. I know I personally enjoy being able to leave something cooking while I run out to grab an ingredient or two quickly.
@@grinningdoor
Yeah, in most European cities, you can often walk to a small store in less time than it takes to find parking at a supermarket in most American cities.
We get more variety here, but it's way less convenient.
That means fewer trips and larger hauls.
@@Wrenchmonkey1 yeah no doubt, and the cultural aspect of earlier generations where markets and grocers just simply did not exist (especially on the prairies) means many people tend to have multiple fridges and deep freezes, so it's only logical to fill them up. They are also far more efficient when they're fuller
I love it how you try to understand every fridge I ever owned / encountered and have a lifetime's worth of experience with. It's like a crime story you know the end of, but the protagonist doesn't!
I have a fridge-freezer pretty much exactly like this (on the inside) but I didn't know the inner workings of it, so I still learnt things here. But it is pretty funny indeed to see him being so marvelled by the simplicity and also the unevenness of the heat distribution inside. Of course what I still don't know is whether the temperature probe for the thermostat is as stupidly located in mine as it is in his.
Technology Connections is the Serial of practical tech shows.
Yeah I was waiting for the fancy tech and slowly realized he just describes your run of the mill fridge here in Germany 😅
Still interesting to have the details explained
That's why I like this guy. In a world where most tech channels would talk about phones, Bluetooth stereos, game consoles, etc., he talks about refrigerators, lava lamps, coffee makers, and simple things like that.
@TechnologyConnections As stated before a german here: The design of the fridge is very common here in germany. Did you measure the temperature of the compressor? Your spike after hours of cooling could be because the compressor shuts down when it gets too hot. My guess would be that the "waterhat" as you described it was empty at that point and couldnt cool the compressor anymore so it had to stop working to cool down, despite of not having done its job. Sidenote: In germany the "safe temperature" for food is considered 8°C (or 46.4° F).
Yeah, why not put the fan at the heat exchange???
For me in the UK, this is a VERY standard fridge. While plainer on the outside, every fridge Ive had has been identical to this on the inside
My current fridge's freezer section has exposed coils between each drawer. It seems fragile.
And we don't call them 'mini' fridges.
Why the UK still lives like the luftwaffe is flying overhead?
Almost every fridge ive ever had is basically this except its much more plain usually just white
And i live in america
Tbh i never even knew this wasnt a standard type of fridge here
@@tripplefives1402
yeah, things are getting kind of ridiculous.
My grandmother and I went shopping for a fridge recently and I could not persuade her to buy a medium, efficient Freezer-On-Top single hinged fridge if my life depended on it >_>
12 cubic feet would have been plenty for us but the best I could negotiate was a double door 17.5 cu Samsung monstrosity with a drawer freezer on the bottom
Celcius conversions are a god send, your efforts to add the conversions have always been appreciated, it also helps me get a better feel for farenheit
I know you weren't planning on this being an hour long saga, but I'm kinda super glad you did because I was fully captivated all the way through.
As an instrumentation engineer this video warms my heart! Key takeaway: direct measurements are better than indirect.
I've set an analog thermometer in a glas of water for 40 years on a middle shelf. Because it's more important to know the temp in food than in the air inside the fridge.
I work in a hospital lab, which includes the blood bank. The temperature of the blood products must be well maintained in a narrow range and our fridges have a bunch of sensors and additional logging (paper charts!) as-well. That said we still have manual thermometers in simulated blood bags full of saline.
As another comment points out, this positioning of the sensor was intentional - it was a cheap way to double as a sensor for preventing the compressor from running for too long. Two temperature probes would've been better, but that's more expensive.
It would be fun to spend an evening with you and a couple steaks and S.S. Chocolate Stouts. As a car nut I'd have all kinds of questions. 🤓
the thing is, most of the european fridges are build similarly.
the freezer is at the bottom, but other than that, no fans, no double doors, no ice maker and the condensers are in the walls.
jessir!
my frige doesn't even have a seperate freezer
its just a compartment in the top with a trap door looking thing in front
Yeah, but as soon as you spend just a little more, you get fans and seperate evaporators. Even any IKEA fridge for around 900 € comes with those features and obviously two separate sensors and a microcontroller.
Needless to say, that any decent european kitchen hides the fridge behind doors that are similar to the rest of the design.
I was wondering what was so special about the fridge shown in this video. But apparently fridges in the US work very differently from the ones over here.
Yup, just our standard fridge, where we exactly know what kind of content goes to which shelf
@@spot997E900 for a fridge is a rather pricy one!
You get a decent full height A++ for €600…
Used to rent a place with it's own simple fridge. In fact, here in Brazil our cheapest fridges are, indeed, this simple and mechanical. Had to defrost it manually with the pan trick a few times. Nowadays, frost-free fridges are increasingly common and cheaper but, for the majority of the last century and a portion of the current one, owning a frost-free fridge was a sign of social improvement, as they were expensive and marketed as a feature. I've my own fridge nowadays, thank God the days of defrosting it are over, but it's sure interesting to see how these aspects changes from country to country, especially from developed ones. Also, I'd love to see Alec do a video on the so called "suicide showers", our electric shower heads.
I like this idea a lot. I got shocked by the shower when living in Brazil and I absolutely hated that. Always felt unsafe the whole time
WHAT THE HELL IS A SU1CIDE SHOWER?!?!?!
Alec, I absolutely love this style of video. Taking a piece of household technology and breaking it down to its component parts, finding its weaknesses and making them better. All the while giving us an understanding of how it works as well as what little things we can do to have it live a longer life. Absolutely excellent!
Genuinely, if someone told me they had watched an hour long video on a fridge, I'd seriously question their mental state. And yet, this was an instant click. Love this channel.
even before I watched this particular video, if someone told me they had watched an hour long video on a fridge, I'd immediately assume it was from TC... I'd probably ask them to explain to me the refrigeration cycle haha
I watched it albeit at 1.25x speed. I’m questioning my mental state.
With it being on the table for a moment there, I felt there was a chance that he had bought two of them, and was going to tear one apart, and put a plexiglass window on it, or something.
You mean with the magic of buying two of them. That never gets old.
@@ljwithnok2615 We already had the magic of buying 5 of something at least
@@xTheUnderscorex We also had the magic of buying "way too f'cking many"!
But what would you like to see through plexiglass in a fridge. Its not like that would be a very interesting view in any way
TH-cam auto-playing the 1hr+ fridge video after the 'popcorn button' episode.
"NotAgainNotAgainNotAgain...well maybe I'll just stay for a bit"
The reason(s) for the spikes is a combination of the response speed of the thermostat (as well as it's proximity to the evaporator and the thermal mass of the fridge) and the thermal overload of the compressor. Placing a more sensitive temp probe right next to the thermostat and one by the compressor probably would've showed that. Possibly the reason for utilizing the drip tray as a passive chiller
Edit: Having watched the rest of it, you are absolutely correct. But as a suggestion to improve the safe function of the fridge, that original thermostat was probably not intended for use as a practical temp sensor. It seems that it's main purpose was to make sure the evaporator didn't get too cold and create an extreme temp differential within the fridge. Simply tying that in series with the actual controller you upgraded it with would still be useful as a secondary feature to make sure the beer in the back doesn't freeze before the beer on the door even starts getting cold. Yes it'd be a more gradual reduction in temp, but some airflow from a small fan would make sure it wasn't off for too long
I came to a similar conclusion - that bulb was there as the duty cycle control for the compressor - hence the behaviour on cooldown (thats how it SHOULD behave if its loaded that hard with a tiny compressor). He is currently VASTLY overloading the undersized piston compressor and never giving it time to cool down. It NEEDS a max duty cycle like 30 min on 15 min off.
I have always seen those types of bulbs used to control a thermal expansion valve (TXV) in regular old air conditioners. Usually this bulb is directly attached to the evaporator line and covered in insulation tape to monitor the temperature there so it can change how much refrigerant it is releasing into it so as to correctly regulate the temps of the evaporator coil and the condenser coil. This would explain why the fridge basically stopped working after he put it directly into the air of the fridge. It does not expect nearly that high of a temp so it will open the TXV all the way and lower the temperature/pressure split across the evaporator and condenser coils to the point that it would hardly cool anything.
Really it wouldn't make sense to use a device like that as a temperature sensor in such a budget refrigerator. Its actually a rather expensive device, made of copper and filled with pressurized refrigerant. Orders of magnitude more expensive than a simple electronic temperature sensor. I suspect the real way the fridge regulates temperature is by using that dial to regulate how long it's cycles last. This would explain why the cycles seemed to have little to do with what temp the fridge was running at.
Theromostats seem to be the problem. I had to buy a new one for my fridge,Not a new one, an alternitive. : }
@@garyz2043 seems to be a common thing, I've done it to 3 of mine over the years..
@@mycosys "so as to correctly regulate the temps of the evaporator coil and the condenser coil. "
I came here to say just that, thermal overload protection.
But, you have already said it, so I will have to say something else.
It's a nice Red colored Fridge and I quite like the chrome.
This is literally every fridge I ever used. I had no idea there can be more to a fridge than this.
Really? I've only had fridges that have coils up in the freezer and an evaporator fan that blows freezer air into the fridge. It's pretty cool (pun intended), because the freezer becomes a nice anti-heat buffer for the fridge.
Jep, like 90% of the fridges in Europe are like this. Although most people have a seperate freezer and fridge. And the condensor is somewhat better, with a nice big radiator on the back of the fridge. They work fine tho, I think Technology connection's fridge is just too cheap.
Even with the condenser built in the sides? I'm used to see it visibly mounted on the back.
@@Earth-Apple I was surprised that newer ones almost always come without radiator on the back and with pipes in it's sides, like in this video. I read somewhere it's for increased efficiency, and maybe because new popular refrigerant (cyclopentane).
@@arion_vulgaris big advantage to pipes in the walls instead of a radiator on the back is its far less likely to get damaged when some college student is moving out in a hurry...
If TC ever creates refrigeration-cycle merch, i would buy instantly
i'd enjoy a shirt simply saying fridges are heat pumps
You could make some workout gear out of “heat pump”
Just put the temp graph on the shirt. Then if you see someone else with that shirt, you can both make eye contact, nod, and carry on.
@@Kriss_Lhow about a shirt that says "The latent heat of Vaporisation"
In a funky font
Heck yeah, that's such a niche and silly idea for a shirt and I love it.
Thanks for the informative video you’ve put together here. I actually just got this fridge as a backup fridge for beers, water, & sodas, but after having it for a couple days, I realized that it might not be sufficient for keeping food at a safe temperature. Thanks to your great video, I know now that I should just use it as a bar fridge.
The motor shutting off early could be due to a built-in duty cycle limitation. The compressor probably can't run permanently without risking damage, so it has a cutoff if it runs constantly for too long.
Could also be that the tiny amount of refrigerant was over capacity causing flooding in one part of the system
@JanRademan YES, there's two control functions at work here. One is the compressor overheat protection and the other one is the thermostat inside the fridge under the evaporator. The first one protects the compressor by limiting how long it runs and the other one is limiting the fridge temperature WHEN the compressor is working within limits. That's why the sensor is near the evaporator.
Duty cycles on refrigerant pumps (the enclosed types like in refrigerators) are usually 100%. There are thermal protection circuits in them but those will usually only engage in the case of limited air flow or component failure.
@@deekman78are you sure? I remember seeing "computer geeks" and overclockers trying to use a fridge compressor and failing because of the duty cycle limit.
@@mohammadalhasan4253 the compressors inside of refrigerators can run 100% duty cycle but they can't be used to pump over a certain amount of wattage, which is where you'd run into issues trying to cool computer components. I found a wine fridge that had 19" wide shelves and considered putting some telco-racked servers in there (think like 4 raspberry pi inside of a case or something, but from 2005). In essence, by design and application fridges remove heat, and no more heat is added. For active cooling there's constant heat being added, and the overall capacity (expressed as tons or whatever) needs to be above and beyond that capacity to run effectively.
I don't think anyone else could make an hour-long video about fridges so entertaining. Great job! :D
There isn't anyone else that could. He is magic. (And probably violates the laws of physics on a regular basis.)
I'm amazed at how this guy gets you to watch an hour video about a fridge and still makes it more interesting than the other videos in my ''to watch later'' list 😂 Great video, lot of work making this 💪
like, WHY AM I WATCHING THIS?! more, please.
So true !!!!😂
I was thinking that too, like... why the @#$% am I still watching this? ............... Oh, so the thermostat was poorly designed? ... So then what happened?? omg
Why didn't he just move the original temperature sensor (sensing bulb)?
@@oliversissonphone6143 I think he did at a moment but the results were not conclusive, I can't remember when exactly
Best channel on TH-cam, and my favorite infotainment of all time. This is exactly what I feel TH-cam was created for. It is the epitome of high quality, informative, entertainment. If I had kids I would watch this together with them knowing they would learn on so many different levels. Alec you have a rare gift my friend.
The thermostats tail fits to an evaporator for a reason, it controlls a defrost cycle. With your current configuration there is no guarantee that defrost cycle will be completed before compressor starts again. So you might have an ice crust on a back wall of a refrigerator. You need to add an evaporator sensor to fix that :)
And... it's within the wall now... so you wont really see it happening
And that "defrost cycle" is basically just doing nothing for a while. So all it does is limit the compressor duty cycle, which could be due to ice buildup but also to protect that tiny compressor from running for too long and overheating. Not sure if the overload protection on the compressor takes a high run time into account, or that it only trips on a motor stall.
thank you, I suspected the probe was there for some reason, and it is indeed a very elegant design solution overall
@@Stoney3K my thoughts exactly. I started cringing when he was talking about five hour run times, and then really cringing when he was talking about 14 hour run times. He is bound to have knocked years off the life span of that little compressor.
@@BrunoB78an elegant solution to a secondary problem that causes the primary function to fail?
A lot of these design features seem to be quite common here in Europe, at least every fridge I've come across does everything very, very similarly.
With every video you come out, I get an increasing notion that you'd have a blast travelling here and seeing how all our thingymagigs works differently from their US counterparts
I was about to make the comment that this is basically the refrigerator I have in my Helsinki apartment. Not as "retro" looking but just as simple of a design.
@@TuomasLeone I live in an apartment in Sweden, and it's the same story here. Aside from the aestetics, it looks completely normal to me.
Yeah, and this is how the PREMIUM fridges from Samsung work!
The cheaper fridges have totally exposed condensers on the back, and barely covered internal evaporators. And yes, we have to defrost them every few months, but you should be cleaning your fridge's internals at least that often anyway, so it's not a big deal!
Same. I've never seen a fridge in Finland that doesn't have completely separate freezer section, nor one without the condenser hidden behind plastic or something allowing defrosting to be done easily.
And indeed my fridge in my cheapest possible rental apartment is just as good.
"This opened up a can of worms (...) And now, I'm dragging you in with me!" There's next to no people on the planet who'd make me smile by saying those words like you did! Love your videos, love your ramblings, love your analysis and descriptions! Every time you appear on my feed I know it's a treat. Hope you're doing well! Stay healthy and nice! :* :)
😊😊😊
Ok I nearly fell out of my chair from laughter when you showed the stock footage in the beginning with "professional reenactment"
It was also on a "closed course"
I for one am still anxiously awaiting your first feature-length compressor-based film.
Featuring the superhero Compressorman !
The "NO! STOP IT!" from off screen when talking about adding a fan by the compressor made me laugh out loud. This channel is the best.
I laughed too, but I thought maybe having a fan back there that also pushes air past the sides would maybe help a bit with efficiency and longevity. Of course, I am not an HVAC or appliance technician or engineer, but what do I know?
It totally would help. My travel fridge/freezer has one or more (it's got 3 vents but not checked if a fan for each vent or just 1).
Still slow, but seems to help.
Here I sit, ready to watch Part 2, another hour of refrigeration optimization experimentation!
The interesting thing is the different definition of „food safe temperature“. In Europe in general 4-5°C is considered the optimal temperature of the cooling compartment and -18°C for the freezer. In Germany we even go higher with considering 7°C as optimal temperature of the cooling compartment. And - it is perfectly fine, never had or heard of problems with 7°C.
Americans tend to store food for longer times due to car dependency and less frequent food runs as consequence.
@@Turtle1631991 True. When I spent weeks in Germany and the UK, I noticed the fridges were tiny and grocery store trips were daily or every other day and they used up all the food they bought in those two days or so. In America, my friends leave leftovers a long time and sometimes I do as well.
I think the temperatures quoted by our different safety organizations mean different things. The way the US food safety recommendations read to me is that your refrigerator should be set no higher than 40°F (4.4°C), but I imagine that that's the average temperature. The UK recommendations (entschuldigung; mein Deutsch ist nicht so gut) for 8°C (46°F) seem to mean that food should never go beyond that. In fact, they recommend that refrigerators be set at a maximum of 5°C (41°F).
@@wbfaulk No, 4 C is not the average temperature in a North American fridge. It's the maximum allowed. Here in Canada, if the health inspector ever sees, during an inspection, that the interior of a food service fridge is higher than 4 C, he checks the food. If it has risen past 4 C the entire fridge contents goes in the garbage. No, I'm serious.
@@paulmaxwell8851 Well, fortunately, I was talking neither about Canada nor commercial refrigeration. Also, when I said "average temperature", I meant the average temperature of the interior of the refrigerator; there is some level of hysteresis in all thermostats, and my guess was that the setpoint of a household refrigerator thermostat is in the middle of that range instead of at the top end. But I didn't explicate that, and I'm also not certain of it anyway. Still, commercial refrigeration is irrelevant. No one is coming into your house and throwing away your groceries if your refrigerator is too warm, regardless of what country you live in.
bro I work for a refrigerator manufacuterer and you did more investigation for a youtube video than our whole research and development team does for a month amazing
I love the way you call this a "mini fridge", in the UK we'd call it a "fridge". The large double door units are often referred to as "American fridges" 🤣
Yes this red fridge is bigger than the only fridge we can fit in our flat -_-
Yeah, a mini fridge is one that fits under a table, possibly even smaller than that.
To be fair, we wouldn't call this a mini fridge in the US, we would call it a small fridge. Mini fridges are shorter and typically have the frozen compartment within the top of the single compartment. But this is certainly smaller than most people's fridges here. My fridge is probably 2.5-3 of these big, but would be considered a large fridge, 1.5 of these would be a "normal" fridge size.
I lived in England for 2 years and a large family lived close by (in MIddle Barton, Oxfordshire) and the first thing I noticed in their house was that small fridge.
He also doesn’t call it a mini fridge, he bought it instead of a mini fridge, its just a small fridge
I have a similar model, and yes, it's difficult keeping the freezer and refrigerator temperatures correct. Soft ice cream and frozen milk are all too common.
Well it sounds like you still have ice cream and liquid milk, just in reverse
I feel there's an easy solution for this particular problem, which shouldn't be any more complicated than swapping the position of certain items.
@@lonestarr1490 Yup. I can eventually get everything stabilized. The problem is when you show up with new groceries - if you're not careful you'll have issues. It's a level of complexity I'm not used to.
I have a very similar Frigidaire fridge and it's worked perfectly!
I have a Unique retro-style fridge that's just a bit larger than this one and have never had this problem.
Fun fact those big warning labels are actually warning you about the blowing agent in the styrofoam insulation not the refrigerant itself, that is the much smaller print warning label. I figured that out when figuring out that my freezer and fridge use r134a but still have the cyclopentane warning labels. Also, cyclopentane apparently is not used as a refrigerant and r600a is isobutane.
Ah, that's why it said 'foaming agent', I was wondering about that. I guess, as a refrigerator manufacturer, they have stricter "Prove this isn't a CFC" paperwork than most random companies making insulation, and it's good to know when a plastic insulation foam is the super-flammable kind I suppose. Also, maybe more inert gasses are used in foams that don't have to be that insulating? I suppose it might be tricky to add thermal conductivity to the criteria you have to optimize in gas selection.
Yep. 47:32
This reminded me of a story about a warehouse fire where an employee who got bored wanted to see how well a scrap piece of foam would burn. What he didn’t realize is that the whole reason the rolls of foam were being stored there is so that the flammable gas used to blow them into their foamy form would off-gas in time for shipping. I don’t think even five seconds passed from the lighter being lit before the _entire warehouse_ was ablaze.
in ancient days the manufacturer used R11 to foam the thermal insulation.
R11 is not flammable but a Ozone killer.
@@Intrafacial86 Ah, so THAT is why it was so intense. Never would have figured they pump random polymer foam full of flammable gas, huh (to be fair, never had to think about the way it's made either, but it's a bit unexpected that something as mundane as polymer foam that we encounter even in food packaging might be filled with effectively fuel, even if it's limited to certain types)
“Closed course. Do not attempt” is genius. Back when I worked on a certain news parody TV program the “Reenactment” was fertile comedy ground
I just sat here for an hour watching a fridge video. The way you presented this, wasn't bored one minute! By the way, my dad still has a 1948 fridge purring smoothly in the basement. Quieter than modern fridges, I doubt that any modern fridge will last 75 years.
Plus a modern fridge can't stop radiation from entering the icebox
@@Jakeinlivincolor seemed to work fine for Indy
@Sillimant_ EVERY one knows Indiana Jones should not have survived that nuclear blast. His body would have been squashed inside that metal box
.
@@electrictroy2010don’t care, it was cool.
I honestly forgot until this video that freezers used to get covered in ice and need occasional cleaning. I have these memories rushing back of doing that with my parents.
I've got a cheap mini fridge that still does!
And I however had no idea that that is a possibility haha
here in Switzerland I have never ever seen a fridge with any kind of heater in it. We have the "simple" model in most homes. Oh, it beeps if you leave it open.
As a Brit, I was completely unaware freezers don't do this. I've never seen a freezer that we don't need to de-ice. I sometimes have to knock ice off the door to get them to shut, and every year or so even take out all the food and de-ice it.
I de-iced my freezer thanks to this. Ice buildup was so big that I was unable to remove one of the shelves ;))
my mini fridge is like that, it sucks
professional fridge temperature probes are generally in a small jar of oil to eliminate the problem with being too responsive to brief temperature spikes. (My experience is with medication fridges, and the vial of oil is about the same size as the vials of medication that are being monitored)
So that's what they are!! (pharmacy tech here)
Thanks for the video. I really enjoy watching your brainstorm experiments. Trying to improve things can be rewarding and money saving as well. What's nice is that you are doing all the work and the audience is benifiting from your findings.
From Europe: I don't think I've ever seen a fridge/freezer combo that has airflow or a fan between the compartments. I genuinely think every appliance I've ever interacted with has been of the design of your "little red".
That is relatively common in "no frost" fridges. But in most of them air pass is well hidden
@@phillipbanes5484don't tell people how to define the place they live.
@@phillipbanes5484 they didn't say it was. And you had no right to tell people how to speak.
I have 200 freezers and fridges in my care at my job and have run many of your experiments! I scratched my head so much in confusion that I had aviable excuse for what many call " male pattern baldness". I have installed thermostat equipment just as you did. But you observed and voiced things you found and it opened my eyes even more. Ah I love duck diving under a nerd wave of refrigeration troubleshooting!
Is this like a daycare situation?
@@leuvenfra lmao
1:12 You absolutely nailed the "Doug DeMuro wave" in both facial expression and duration.
I dont know how I got here, but I’m glad I did because now I know why my not-so modern fridge keeps icing in the back and what that little twisty thing with numbers actually does
That's pretty interesting to watch this as a European, particularly because, as someone else stated down below, this is a pretty regular home fridge here in Europe (or at least Italy where I live). Yes, we're starting to see automatic defrosting, fans, microcontrollers and so on nowadays but this design is still quite common and is used with more powerful compressors too, especially if you plan to spend less than 500 euros (which, by the way, it's like 1/3 of a normal salary here in Italy) on your new fridge. And yes, this fridge doesn't "make" cold but only keeps it, but we would never ever put something warm in the fridge. That's something even the best chefs give out as a pro tip on TV shows. We also would naturally consider that as a useless waste of energy! The only downside is this fridges don't make ice cubes, but it's something we don't need so much. ice-making trays cost nothing and do their job
It's ironic cuz his comment is on top D:
The Ice maker machine is always the first thing to break in my omerican fridge experience.
Same here in The Netherlands
If a fridge doesn’t “make cold”, it’s just a glorified icebox
@@EnigmaticLucas Well yes, what more do you want.
That "random" shutoff on the little red -- That looks like a safety mechanism of the compressor, not the thermostat, to keep it from drastically overworking and burning out
Edit: Also, I recall with older fridges having to adjust the "thermostat" dependent on how full it was. The thermostat acting more as a "how often do we run the compressor" and less of an actual temperature-dependent thing
Edit Edit: Hearing that the fridge just wouldn't shut off for nearly a day straight makes me think there's no safety mechanism. Ignore me lol
a saffety was my first thought as well, I'm glad I finished the video before starting to type out a comment though
Ok, so I'm at 28:47 in the video, and the behavior sounded like a safety for the compressor. I guess I'll finish watching to see why it isn't.
I also immediately suspected that the compressor overheated, causing the thermal cutout to activate. I diagnose and repair refrigeration systems for a living...
@@jordanstephenson6953 Hey, I can't get parts for my old GE, and the damper is not working right anymore. Is there someone who rebuilds these, offers replacements, or something? Thanks.
I have a feeling the design of the fridge thermostat was a way to limit the duty cycle of the compressor, by partially coupling the thermostat to the evaporator coils.
It will run longer when you put a lot of stuff in, but will shut off early before the items have fully cooled, and then moves back into a more regular duty cycle, gradually getting closer to a proper fridge temp.
With a freezer section like that, the ideal way to help it stay cold when adding new things is to keep more (already frozen) mass in there, just like a chest freezer. Just grab a few ice packs and use them to keep empty space filled. Edit: this applies to the refrigerator too.
that's what happens when you rubber stamp pass everyone through high school.. wive's tales replace scientific fact.. the more you have inside, the less the air circulates, the longer the compressor runs, the more heat is generated.. you wont accept it but you are factually incorrect.. call Whirlpool customer service and ask them..
If this is your only fridge, how are you supposed to have pre-frozen stuff?
@@jordanabendroth6458 You freeze stuff you don't care about before purchasing stuff you do care about. e.g., fill it with ice pack "ballast" when you start, and then as you move frozen stuff in and out, pull the ice packs out and put them back in.
Put another way, if you didn't have a freezer before you bought this, why do you have frozen stuff at all?
@@metaridley1848 'why do you have frozen stuff at all'
Because you bought the refrigerator either as your very first fridge/first-at-that-home {many people choose to leave their fridge behind when they sell} or because you're replacing a broken refrigerator disaster where everything is already thawed.
@@jordanabendroth6458 tbh you need to bootstrap it really by turning it on for the first time and letting the thermal mass cool down/freeze before you move food over (or buy a bag of ice and slowly replace the ice as you fill the fridge).
I don't need to use all of my freezer space so I have a 2 litre water bottle and a bunch of ice packs (in case I need them) shoved in the top draw. Partly to help add thermal mass, partly as witness items (once my 2 litre bottle froze, I spun it so the small air bubble in there is on the bottom, if I open the draw and see the air bubble on the top then the freezer has as least partially defrosted without me knowing it), and partly as a phase change mass at the top of the freeze to help increase the time the freezer stays frozen should the compressor fail.
0:04 - Literally nobody is surprised by an hour of fridge talk coming from Tech Connections 😂
That's why we show up! So I can lean over the handyman's shoulder and name all the parts while he fixes my appliances that I've somehow broken.
This is exactly the fridge design that I spent my entire life with (except for the red retro outside), and never really considered it could or should be more complex. No idea why one would want wifi in the fridge.
"You're running out of kale, Hal."
Yes, it's exactly the way most fridge / freezers in the UK are made.
It's the people selling wi-fi who want wi-fi in the fridge.
Americans are just... like that
@@ileutur6863A very small segment of tech fetishists are like that.
This is interesting to see. This is the only fridge design I have seen for decades in Germany. When you said, putting warm casserole in would bring up the average temperature to unsafe levels, I said "d'oy, of course". But then I remembered how Americans just put hot things in the fridge to be "safe". Here in Germany, we only put room temperature and colder things in the fridge for that exact reason. Food won't spoil that much faster if it cools outside the fridge, and the dreaded "danger zone" for food doesn't matter (when cooling down) if it sits there for a couple minutes...
I'm American and I've never put hot things in the fridge? Maybe it's a southern thing but I always heard from my mom and grandma that if you put hot things in the fridge they'll "sour".
Considering the results with the room-temperature soda bottles, I don't think it could handle ANY food that would be even slightly warm. With the mentioned casserole you'd need to wait at least 6h to get it all the way to room temperature. Much too long for my comfort...
@@bzqp2 The difference may be portion sizes as well. In the US we tend to have rather large dishes of food like the big casserole dish, and I believe it tends to be much smaller on average elsewhere, so fewer leftovers, etc to fridge.
@@bzqp2 Please. He loaded up the whole fridge full of water. Water takes an insane amount of energy to cool and heat. Your shouldn't load up the fridge with everything all at once and expect it to just be cold, and food has some solid content as well, it's not just water. Of course the air temperature in the fridge rides up a little, but so what. There's also plenty of thermal mass in the fridge to keep it from oscillating too badly.
I put a decently warm pan into my fridge once. Never again. I heard a loud "Ping", and had to look for a new glass shelve. Nevermind the efficiency of the fridge, temperature stress inside the glass pans is no joke either.
As someone who's been tinkering with their PC for nearly a month straight for no apparent reason, that "No! Stop it!" had me laughing. I'm glad I'm not alone with running into these sort of insane rabbit holes.
It did make me curious though! A similar question comes to my mind as to whether creating active airflow around the external radiator would increase efficiency. Our built-in fridge with a microwave-oven sitting on top seems to have very little airflow round back at all.
However, not having seen any consumer-grade fridges in my life with a fan in that particular area (near the compressor circuit) I assume no major differences are to be found as surely fridge manufacturers would have thought of this option as well.
@@dinkytoy8218My mom’s fridge has a fan that blows over the compressor- but vents into the baseboard area below the cabinets which took years of wondering where the lint on the dishes came from.
(Thankfully after having had a cat, mom wipes out all dishes before using, just in case.)
@@CrankyOtter Store them upside down my dude. Dust is only on the outside then
57:00 is where this sequence occurs in the video for anyone wanting to watch it again.
40+ year service tech w/t a couple of thoughts:
It's important to realize that that refrigerator is not UK or Euro precision-control food storage refrigerator. It is a N. American style low-energy auxiliary storage / spare / dorm "mini-fridge" - made for drinks and snacks, and priced accordingly. They are cheap, disposable, and work just fine without trying to reverse engineer and improve them to make them smaller versions of our primary kitchen refrigerators which have forced air cooling systems and automatic defrost to keep more temperature critical perishables. Current refrigerators have computer--managed air circulation with potentially multiple sensors, fans, and even refrigerant evaporators to adjust refrigerant proportioning, airflow, and compressor pump rates or cycle. That fridge is what it is. It will gradually extract heat and then economically maintain it. Much like a very compact economy car that gets good fuel mileage, that fridge is purposely underpowered. It is not designed for quick and powerful "acceleration", but sipping energy while it maintains the speed it eventually reaches. It cannot do that by having a powerful "powertrain" (refrigeration system) with a "throttle" (thermostat) that responds immediately to the slightest change in "speed" (temperature).
1) This is a not a forced air evaporator style of heat-exchanger, and the design thermostat is mean to respond to evaporator load feedback. In the static evaporator, the "heat" (above the evaporation point of the refrigerant used) is absorbed from the air in closest contact with the heat exchanging surface. That air in turn absorbs the heat from the air closest to it and so on - from back-to-front. If your Fleer could show the temps inside the sealed cabinet over the progression of several hours, you would see that. Once the door has remained sealed until food load has reached its temperature and the control cycles off, that cold food will act as a significant temperature stabilizer. In most cases, in the routine course of removing or replacing one or two food items with a brief door opening will not require the unit to initiate cooling as relative amount of "heat" introduced by the newly introduced and ambient air, will first be absorbed throughout the chilled food load - esp any glass or metal surfaces. Once the evaporator temp starts to rise the thermostat will close and start the unit.
You are essentially trying to add a single element of a forced air convection system to static conduction one- which just creates eddies in the normal heat transfer and makes things worse. It's like strapping just an automotive turbocharger somewhere under the hood of a car and wondering why there's no improved performance.
Forced air evaporator systems that have mechanical thermostats also find it critical to moderately insulate the hydraulic sensing tube on the thermostat because they are not connected on or near the evaporator itself, but respond to actual interior cavity air. Without the insulation, you can get thermostat "bounce" or "short-cycling", where an errant air current from opening a door can trigger a thermostat to restart a cooling system before the compressor has completed its pressure equalization - tripping the overload at the compressor. So delay cycle timing is a necessity.
2) This is why it is best not to measure fresh food AIR temps at various zones as they are far too fluid. Measure the temp inside an 8oz glass of tap water. It will be the same as the temp of the stored food.
I spent 22 years as a refrigeration/appliance engineer in the UK, and am very tickled by the fact that you call the fridge in question a ‘mini’ fridge, as it would be a considered a standard fridge-freezer by a lot of people here.
In fact, what you would typically think of as a standard fridge freezer is known over here as an ‘American style’, and many people have to have the kitchen totally remodelled to accommodate them, as we’re not used to such large appliances 😂
I love this guy's videos bc they remind me to stay curious and think about the things we take for granted every day.
3:12 - it's amazing that they just have stock footage of compressors sitting on a table. Love the video!
I bought this exact same fridge for my basement 3 years ago. I keep my house pretty cold (around 63-65*F) and the basement stays around 62*F without any heat or AC turned on. The cooler room temp and seldom opening of the door until college football season kicks off again, makes this and pretty much any fridge very efficient in this environment. But now I want to change out my thermostat....thanks buddy...lol. I am going to buy those data logging temp sensors for all my fridges and freezers. I mainly want to compare differences between the house fridge and separate freezer chests and shop fridges and separate freezer chests. I love your content and the amount of detail you put in there. Keep up the great work.
The best of those GE monitor top fridges had two features that are rare even in today's models. 1- a pedal on one of the front legs to automatically open the door for you if you press it with one of your feet, and 2- a water cooling system with a faucet on the side (cooled drinking water is normally reserved for only vertically split door models today).
ooh, a door pedal, that's a good idea
I want a top freezer model with ice and water in the freezer door. In the 70's we had one with ice in the door. Nobody had got around to thinking of taking the ice maker water supply and T-ing off to a spigot. But like my favorite PC keyboard layout which nobody has made since 1994, (Look up a Monterey K104), it's been decades since the brief time that top freezer fridges had through the door ice, let alone if any ever had water there too.
I want a motor to open the fridge
@@AgentOffice : Very bad. The dog will figure out how to open it and you'll come home from work to find all the meat is gone.
My LG LRTLS2403S has a water dispenser and filter inside the fridge compartment, but I've never hooked it up so I'm not sure how much water it would cool at once. Also, I wouldn't recommend it for other reasons.
Replacing the solid shelves with open ones, like wire racks, would help with air movement and convection efficiency. Also for funsies you could get a thermocouple and see if you can fish it down the old thermostat tube to see just how cold the sensing bulb was getting.
Fridge shelves could be hex shaped metal grid, maximize air flow .... Or hi tension piano wire in linear grid? D
Fridges use solid shelves to prevent fluid spills from dripping onto whats directly below that….. thats why fridge shelves are solid while freezer shelves are mesh
@@MrSheckstrMesh shelves used to be standard in fridges, they probably had to re-engineer all airflow details when glass shelves became fashionable .
@@johndododoe1411 .. aint glass a bad heat transfer material, if using nongrid use metal at least it'll transfer heat faster? Copper?
@@MrSheckstr Weird. My fridge shelves are all mesh, and the only thing that's ever "spilled" were a few candy bars from the upper shelves, falling into the abyss behind the various jars of sauce and preserves sitting on top of the veggie drawers. I would never, ever trade this mild inconvenience away for bad airflow and strange thermodynamics.
So, there is something you entirely missed. The reason the sensing bulb is placed right next to the evaporator is that you want to know the evaporator temperature.
Evap temp and pressure inside it - and thus in relation condenser temp and pressure inside it - are directly related. Thus, keeping those in check is an important performance and safety metric.
Modern, electronicly controlled fridges have several sensors. They more often than not have an ambient temperature sensor, a sensor for each temperature zone plus a sensor on every evaporator - how many that might be.
The control then controls fans dependent on that.
Edit: The energy guide tests at 32C ambient temperature to compensate for door openings.
Does air movement affect the temperature at which evaporation occurs? I mean, intuitively I think it would, but I don't know enough whether that's just because of the resulting increased transfer of heat - i.e. wouldn't it only be a problem if the blowing air is hitting the thermostat?
Edit: apparently "wind speed" affects evaporation because it effectively reduces the pressure of water vapor and therefore enables it to occur at higher temperatures. 😂
I think the primary problem with this set up is a lack of active cooling of the hot loop or even good passive cooling. Every fridge I have ever owned had an external hot loop on the back of the fridge (on standoffs so it's not touching the fridge) with cooling fins. A couple of them had the hot loop in a plastic case with a fan drawing air from in the front of the fridge at the ground.
The cooling fins massively increase the surface area and keeps the hot loop much cooler. This design has the hot loop inside the fridge bunched up against a steel side with much less surface area.
This is exactly what I was thinking.the sensor is a safety feature to ensure that the evaporator is never 'unevaporated'. If it is getting close to that lets stop the cycle. If it's far from it, it's probably not cold enough inside the fridge so let's continue. The compressor cycles will be the same size/frequency as it's much more dependent on the compressor than the thermal mass inside or convection etc.
This was my guess, that the temp probe is trying to measure multiple things. That is always doing the same cycle time it is probably trying to make the compressor stay within some limited duty cycle range most of the time with just a little allowance for big spikes.
I thought the same thing - and commented that there may be a tradeoff with efficiency vs. desired setpoint going on here, and they were aiming more towards overall efficiency (maybe to meet some government regulation, or just for competition).
Thank you. You have successfully explained why the fridge at work immediately freezes up when you plug it in. That was driving me nutz.