Great system, Never hardly snag up, rarely tangled up casting on big water in the wind, and best of all landed two big rainbow trout on the heavily fished south fork of the boise River last week!I practiced the system in town last winter to get familiar. There is tons of logic to this system, love using, and tying non weighted flies, the drop shot is awesome almost snagless and put the flies in the zone. Thanks for the great informative videos!
Hi from France, and thanks for this idea of drop shot nymphing. It's not allowed everywhere, but when it is, it's an awesome complement to what you guys call french nymphing. All the best!
This is amazing! All the guides in any shop I've ever been say that unless you're losing flies all the time you're not fishing well, but that makes no sense; I waste more fishing time on snags, breaking off, and tying on new flies than probably anything else.
This rig is incredible! Completely changed the world of nymphing for me, couldn’t catch anything on a nymph until I used this rig, awesome videos! Keep em comin!
I am always pleased with the quality of questions you get on your channel and the answers always seem to be even better than the questions.....it is a fantastic resource for someone like me and very much appreciated!
Really enjoyed this video! A fishing buddy of mine started using this rig setup and he loves it. He also said that because of the weight being at the far end it is easier to cast. You don't get that helicopter spin like you do when the split shot is in the middle and sometimes when using a strike indicator as well.
It seems to me this rig may be much easier to sense the strike than the traditional arrangement since the indicator is mostly under tension from the drop shot. Making the take easier to detect will be a massive help to beginner anglers and also to the elderly who are not as sensitive to the strike. Great stuff!
Kelly, you truly are a master of the sport!! I've learned so much from you about fly fishing and Brian from mad river here in Ohio. You two have definitely made me a better fisherman. I love your nymphing techniques much better than ureo, thank you
Kelley, great vid! I'm an Etexas crappie fisherman. Good basics cross over to other types of fishing, and really like your idea for the Perfection Knot. You built a better mouse trap. Sometimes the most basic idea is the best solution. Thanks.
Excellent explanation on your reasoning behind rigging drops for nymphing, with sizes & positioning of flies. It all makes sense to this old PA fly fisherman. New sub here for y’all👍🇺🇸
This is awesome..It never even occurred to me to tie flies above the weight..Duh...Techniques and strategies is part of the love for fly fishing...Thanks
This has increased my catch rate enormously. If you like me, I'm 60, have difficulty seeing the fine tippet material to tie these, I tie my drop shots on ahead of time to the fly, and then put each into a small ziplock bag, works great, you then just tie on the fly and are good to go!
Just found this site, what a great resource! You've got kind of a real life Tim Allen thing going here, combined with a lifetime of knowledge and experience that you're willing to share. The last two nights watching your videos I've realized just how lazy I've been for the last 10 or 15 years...it's basically been "hopper season" for me from May through October here in s. Utah, with a little primitive (I've learned here) nymphing for whiteys late in the Fall until the guides start to freeze up. How I hate that gravelly sound... Anyway, I've subbed, thanks.
I just want to confirm how well this system works. I've learned to euronymph but often used weight above the bottom fly. Now I use this system, weight on the bottom, with two perfection
loop droppers and BAM! this is deadly. I fish in New England, on some tailwater, and some natural freestones. No matter where, this technique maximizes my fish landed and minimizes equipment lost. I typically tightline and use 5x throughout the rig right up to my bicolor sighter. THANK YOU KELLY!
Robert Olmstead similar for me on the euro rig. I’m debating about completely changing style however I’m concerned about losing the ability to fish super fast water. Have u noticed Any downfalls to dropshotting vs euro? Also do use indicator or sighter?
@@wesleywillard Yes. I use 4# fluoro (PLine Halo) for both the perfection loop dropper tags and the drop shot main leader. I've a 10ft rod with 25 ft of 15# yellow amnesia above a bicolor sighter. It's very simple.
@@tannerfurbee5227 I use a sighter. The drop shot is good for superfast water as well as moderate. No downfalls. Positives are less lost flies and simple changes of droppers and the levels of the droppers on the main leader. I use fluoro throughout (4# PLine Halo) even down to #20 flies.
Another video with great info, thank you. Might want to mention that the "inline" set up that you show is not legal in some states. Of course the individual fisherman is responsible for knowing and adhering to the regs of their local waters. Thanks again
Great video with interesting ideas. Ive never thought of putting my wet fly dropper on a loop. However, Ive long used a dry fly on a dropper as an indicator but never seen this idea presented elsewhere. Most put it "in line" or on the tag of a join with all the disadvantages you demonstrate.
Connecting the dropper with a loop is an interesting idea. The ability to adjust the depth of the dropper is game changing. Definitely going to try it! I'm curious about the potential for the loop to slide up and down the tippet while casting, or while fighting a fish. Also, I wonder if the loop cinching down on the tippet is more prone to breakage than tying a dropper off of a tag end.
Kelly another great video I'm glad I watched the whole thing because I was going to ask if you could just use one or two tippet rings instead of the blood knot or perfection loop. All of this makes perfect sense and having the the fish mount and rocks helps visualize what's going on with this rig. Now I realize why you don't weight your flies and in this type of setup it would definitely be counterproductive plus I agree that unweighted flies act more natural in the current than weighted flies. One question I do have is what size indicator do you use and is it based on the weight of the rig or the type and speed of the current or both? Some of these indicators are bigger than the ones we used to use for fishing for bass with minnows! I always fished tight line high sticking and this just looked weird to me but so many people have switched and are having success that I guess it does work but the older you get the more reluctant sometimes! Thanks again I will definitely give a try.
Hi, Kelly. I know this is was posted a long time ago but hope you still see this. Two questions: 1. I've just learned to use this rig during a recent visit to Montana fishing the Beaverhead and Big Hole. We were using 5X mono tippet on both the leader and dropper loops. Do you have any opinion on fluoro vs. mono for this? 2. Twisting - what is your opinion on incorporating a micro-swivel to attach the rig to a short leader to eliminate this? Thanks, Brother!
Also forgot to add that when my buddy uses this rig he ties a little knot below the split shot to keep it from sliding off. Then he ties an overhand knot above it so in case he does get snagged on the split shot he only loses that instead of the whole rig.
On my side of Atlantic, we became overly conscious about adding weight to our flies a decade ago. Top anglers, in competitions were using Czech methods and weight, going back longer. It went into mainstream here, about a decade ago. The pendulum swung too far, it generally does. On certain rivers now, Czech methods make no sense at all. On other rivers, it does. There are hungry rivers with the hard bottoms, and torrent waters suitable for Czech, Polish French, Spanish etc. With hydro-electric power generation in Europe, it altered how a lot of rivers behave. The fish behaviors became built around run-off periods from hydro dams. Trout did start to care less about dry fly. Rivers became too enriched too, and that added to it. We ended up with smaller populations of larger sized trout, on many rivers. The hydro-electric schemes altered the feeding behaviors of trout.
I can’t believe I didn’t figure out using perfection loops to add dropper tags. this is going to save me oodles of time on the stream. I just tried it at home and wow man.
On certain rivers, I wouldn't waste my time trying to weight flies. But I did notice, that even heavily weighted flies, don't always hit bottom. Everybody talks about weighted flies hitting the bottom. That's not generally what happens. What does happen, is that weight on the hook, changes the motion of the fly a lot. Instead of having something that has life and movement, the edge gets knocked off of that. A bit like listening to great music on a bad set of headphones. One wonders, what happened to the music?
Great video Kelly. So your dropper loops are just a 4”-6” piece of tippet with a perfection loop in at one end that you wrap around your main tippet bringing the tag in through the perfection loop and snugging down? Then tying a knot (is it a standard overhand knot?) below this dropper loop to stop it sliding down into your point fly? To be honest I was using the top tag, pointing back towards my rod and tying in a half hitch above the surgeons knot but as you say with snags or tangles or just standard fly change outs this soon gets chopped down to the point where the entire tippet needs to be changed out. Looking forward to seeing more of your videos soon pal
A belated thank you for a great video. Now, a request: could you go over the advantages/disadvantages of using a bobber vs. tight lining with a drop shot system? Again, thank you for an idea that has changed the way I nymph.
@@TheSlideinn Even if you don't have time to film, it would be great if you could go over your ideas about using/not using a bobber with a drop shot rig here. It is a question that lots of us must have.
Hey Kelly .love your stuff. I use a surgerons loop dropper for my drop shot lead . Just put it over the main and let it slide down and stop on the bottom fly...Thoughts??
13:30 he says "just slide it up and put a knot below it." What does he mean by "put a knot below it"? I understand that the purpose is to keep the loop from moving, but how do you put a knot below your loop? And what kind of knot? The blood knot ties together two different pieces of line, and so that can't be what he means. But neither can he mean that we should just the tippet in a knot below the loop because that would break the line. I don't understand. Update: A few months ago you answered my question writing: ESS, I use a blood knot but in reality because the fish is not pulling on that knot you can use a double overhand/granny knot as it is simply a stopper. Thanks, Kelly Two followup questions: 1. A blood knot ties together two separate pieces of line. I don't understand how you put a blood knot into one piece of line. 2. I'm sure I'll use the granny knot, and I understand that if the fish eats the top fly on the loop, it will not put pressure on that granny knot. But if the fish eats the bottom fly that would potentially break the line at that granny knot because the fish would be putting pressure on that granny knot. Clearly I'm missing something, but I don't know what!
Your videos are the Best ! I wish you would do more fishing vids because my eyes are way too gone to tie flies.Anyways my question is this . I learned your drop shot method couple years ago and it has Absolutely revolutionized fishing for me.Now trying to get into euro setups.Can you use a euro shorty with sighter and all But run below the tippet ring your drop shot method? Weight on the bottom because as I learned from you non weighted flies are Better.? Thanks for any help.
That is where I started doing this, and why I did the sliding dropper. Most of the fish ate the bottom fly and when it was in line the fish would always catch the upper fly in the trees ( I was in Mi then) anyway I always used lighter tippet on the dropper so when it hung up the dropper broke off and I was still connected. KG
TheSlideinn this is illegal in Michigan. Maybe it wasn’t when you lived here but it’s illegal to hang a weight below a hook on inland waters in Michigan. lol
To me it seems that the dropper line, next to being just 4", also is quite stiff, looking at the size of the fly. What leader material and diameter do you use for that? Normally when I tight line I use a thin fluoro to go through the water column faster, but the dropper is very limp and still gets tangled sometimes.
This is revolutionary! Excellent! But I’m particularly interested in your sliding dropper loop. But I could not see clearly how you attach it to your mainline. Can you direct me to the details of that connection?
Looks like a great system. Anyone else have a hard time understanding how the perfection loop section was attached to the leader? That bit wasn't clear to me.
HI Kelly, Thanks for the great videos. The detail is amazing! Quick question though; if you had to fish with a single fly due to local regulations would you place your single fly in the location of the top fly in the video or the bottom fly?
Bottom fly for sure, Attach a 4 inch dropper 9inches from the bottom splitshots . This will keep the fly 6-12 inches from the bottom which is the strike one for trout
I think of it like those fighter pilots, like in the movie 'Top Gun'. They 'lock on' to a target, and the migratory species can get annoyed if the fly does a Maverick 'fly boy' trick at the wrong time and they miss. Large migratory species, have to conserve their energy. They're like heavy weight boxers. They can't risk swimming to a bait, unless they have it locked on. We tried almost everything here, for the migratory species - double hooks, dressed treble hooks, copper and aluminium tubes. It was all the fashion for a decade or two. In Scandanavia now though, they're taking the weight off the fly again, and using fly lines to fish at the different depths, and different speeds. I think, that that is largely the right way to approach it, if one can.
Awesome video,have 1 question,bought a furled leader 7' 6" dry fly with a attached tippet ring can it be used for drop shot nymphing & can a tippet ring be used instead of blood knot ?
This is fantastic, and I have tried it. It is totally flexible etc..I did get a lot of tangles using this. My question is: What if your tippet is say...4X? Do you use 4X for your perfection loops?
Same question. I've not tried this yet but I would imagine you would need to go heavier to keep it standing out. Have you figured it out? I would also like to know what he normally ties this in.
Thanks for taking the time to answer questions. This method is much better than the standard. I managed to find a diagram on a forum that was credited to you and that showed the details of diameters and lengths. I found it pretty much tangle free when I tried it last night but I needed a better indicator. The yarn that I usually use was not good enough to float all the weight. I'd drop shot year ago with bait and found it superior for not getting snagged but I'd never done it fly fishing. Things we learn as kids when worming can easily be carried over if we don't get into this mental block of fly vs. gear fishing. Thanks again guys. Great videos.
What weight does, is it slows down speed at which a fly moves. There are some situations, in which a fisherman can use that. Fish sometimes, love a slow moving bait, as opposed to a fast moving one. I learned that, doing a lot of 'static' fishing. I would categorize this thing of adding weight to the hook, as something to do with the retrieve. Kelly has got a video about retrieve types - vertical up down, or side to side etc. Using lines and rigs, one can achieve specific depths and speeds. If one wants to deaden the movement of the fly further, knock even more edge off of it's jigginess, when adding weight to the hook, is a way to achieve that. But that has to be the objective. One shouldn't add weight, just to get a fly 'down'. That is the mis-comprehension about flies and addition of weight.
+Brian O' Hanlon To reinforce point here, about thickness of wire, used to forge a hook. Look at the classic 'static' type of fly fishing of all, which is the attempt to imitate buzzers that hatch out in lakes. Here, one always notices in the patterns, that a thick gauge of wire is used on the hooks, and the dressing on that thick gauge of wire, is sparse. That is how one achieves a more static behavior of the fly, in the water. Really, what they're doing with buzzer fishing, is adding weight to the hook, in a subtle but significant way. One will always find this, where static fishing is concerned. Where lack of movement is the trigger for the fish to take, instead of movement being the trigger. Certain fish, in circumstances, won't touch a fly if it moves too much.
One thing I'd specify about midge pupae emerger buzzer static fishing, in lakes is that it is a surface technique. The ethafoam ball or whatever, is suspending the fly in the surface film, where the patrolling fish might find it. The extra heavy weight of the thick forged hook, adds a little extra ballast, just enough to counteract the jigginess of the pattern, when using materials like ethafoam etc which float and bounce around too much. It's the same with Czech style patterns. There, there is a lot of floatation material, wrapped around the hook, to add bulk to the pattern, which is essential to trigger the takes. To counteract that floatation bulk, that is on Czech patterns, they add weight to cancel out the patterns natural floatation tendency.
Great tag line method. I’ve tried a few and this is the easiest. I also tried to find formula on your website, but couldn’t find it. Curious what size line you are using for the tag line in this video as it stands out at 90 degrees to blood knot so must be 3x plus? And what size tippet between first and second blood knot? 5x? Thanks for putting out great information.
Great video and new subscriber here! Two quick questions...what is the approximate total length of the rig from end of the fly line to split shot at the bottom? Can you use floating mono or fluorocarbon in place of tippet for the initial butt section? Thanks
James , I use anywhere from 10 to 12 foot total, for sure you can use whatever you like for the Butt just keep it light as you can. Thanks for watching. Kelly
Wow, great video. This stuff is great to know and I can't wait to try it out. One question I have is how is the tippet tied onto the bottom fly in order for it to leave line for the split shot? In other words, is it just a simple clinch knot on bend of the hook?
Thanks, Kelly. Get well - we are looking forward to seeing your Alaska clinics and presentation. How do you think this rig (with a single hook) would work for red salmon?
+Jolynne Howard There are videos I've watched of the Ohio steelhead rivers, where they use the high stick techniques to catch steelhead coming up from the great lakes, or returning to them. I believe, they fish for these in both springtime and autumn. However, to compensate for the much faster flows and gorges, where the steelhead like to sit, they use quite large pieces of lead. They sometimes hold the lead balls in their palms, and 'thrown' em out. With a team of two or three different steelhead patterns off droppers.
+Brian O' Hanlon I have to confess, that this technique when I watched them using it, was a thing that I found strange. But it did work. To counter Kelly's assertion that in Europe, we can't use split shot in our fly fishing, one a lot of streams and rivers, the worm bait on hook technique is used. Live worms on hooks, and it is fished very like high stick technique, sort of actively drifting the bait with rod held high to follow current. The Ohio steel head fishers, use egg flies and worm flies, which are fluorescent artificial imitations of live baits. Steelhead grab them, when high sticked through a deep, fast current seam.
+Brian O' Hanlon I know that they do use these patterns, when fishing for red salmon in northern pacific parts, so there's no reason why the high stick system shouldn't work, same as does for steel head. The Ohio steelhead fishers, use both an indicator and several split shot on end of their leaders, with flies above the split shot at different depths. But a lot of them fish, with the indicator out of the water completely - it's not sitting on the surface. That is, indicator is there sort of as a depth guide, in mid air, not quite like in nymphing technique.
Not at all, whatever gets it to the bottom. I like to be able to change quick so unless there is a new style out there the weights I have seen will be harder to put it on and off. The tungsten putty is a little soft for the feel I like but will work. KG
Almost always ran into difficulties at some point when using my tag as my dropper line, whether it be wind direction change mid cast, bad bast or the fishing Gods toying with me even after adding a half hitch to get that 90’ stand off angle it just ended in a tangled mess at some point. Just the way I was shown I guess but that perfection look doubled over the tippet and above the surgeons knot is a cracking idea, my dropper line was always too long from what your advising too. Thanks for the tip and for the in-line advice for the larger flies
Not with this system. No real advantage other than attractor since the weight(s) sit below the flies. The fly's need to move downstream above the weight. Tight lines.
Hey Kelly! I've been using the drop shot rig for a few weeks now and holy cow have I been landing more fish. One question: it seems like no matter where I go I I only catch whitefish or suckers. Do you have any idea why? I use traditional nymphs. Hardly use bead head flies.
Skylar, no idea on that one. Maybe you are down where they live but even so there are always trout with the whitey's. Are you getting anything on the upper fly? if your getting both whitefish and suckers you are down where the trout live also so I am guessing they are just faster to the fly. Could be something about the fly that is putting the trout off and making the others eat it first, just guessing there?
TheSlideinn Curious. I am getting an equal distribution on both flies. Today I actually had a dual hookup. First time that's ever happened to me. I'm doing a lot of fishing on the Crooked River in Central Oregon and the river has a very healthy whitefish population, so it doesn't surprise me to be catching them. I'll keep trying different flies combinations and different sections in the column. Any tips that I might try?
How do you hook up the bottom fly with the dropper weight? Do you tie a separate knot through the eye of the bottom fly to the weight? Or rig the bottom fly and weight differently. Please explain I'm wanting to try this setup on my next trip instead of adding the split shot in the middle of the two flies.
David, Yes you tie a separate piece of mono (6 inches or so) thru the bottom fly's eye, generally one X lighter so it breaks before your fly does if it gets hung up
TheSlideinn thank you for the reply back. I usually put weight either above both flies or in the middle of them both. I'm going to try this method on my next trip and hopefully this will increase my numbers.
For the inline nymph are you tying two knots in the eye, tying it to a tag end of the 4x - 5x blood knot or are you doing a bass fishing palomar style where you drop the tag end back through the eye of the hook?
Andrew, I tie two lines in. I don't like using tags as droppers in any style, I am always afraid that I weaken the know when I yank on tags, and I never lose a fly if I lose my weight and when I used to use the tag end I would occasionally lose the fly as well if I got hung up. KG
So is that why you only tie up to a size 12 in line? Because you can't tie two knots in the eye otherwise? Or is because the line would prevent hooks up at smaller sizes? Thanks for getting back to me about this. I really appreciate you teaching me how to fish.
Andrew, it is two fold. Most important is that in line on flies smaller than a 12 just don't get any movement when tied in line. I prefer them to be on droppers so they don't look so ridged, and can move freely in the current. I also like that the fly on a dropper can get to fish without bumping into the line when it is tight between the lead and leader like it is when you go eye to eye. Thanks, Kelly
I do this with a spinning rod, but without an indicator and about a 1/4 ounce weight on the bottom. It’s not the prettiest thing ever but it sure as hell works.
Cad, 1.5 to 2 times the depth of the water from the lead, regardless of the system it is from the lead, it is the constant the thing that tells you that you are on bottom. If you are using an anchor fly as your weight then it is from that fly. Then you set the flies above the anchor fly or the lead if that's what your using to get down to the depths you want them. If the water is fast or deep you generally go 2 times the depth . thanks, Kelly
ESS, I use a blood knot but in reality because the fish is not pulling on that knot you can use a double overhand/granny knot as it is simply a stopper. Thanks, Kelly
Thanks tons, gotta love it--those bass gear heroes know their shit, haha. With this system, I'll start fishing more nymphs no doubt instead of losing them in the rocks, lol.
Great system, Never hardly snag up, rarely tangled up casting on big water in the wind, and best of all landed two big rainbow trout on the heavily fished south fork of the boise River last week!I practiced the system in town last winter to get familiar. There is tons of logic to this system, love using, and tying non weighted flies, the drop shot is awesome almost snagless and put the flies in the zone. Thanks for the great informative videos!
Hi from France, and thanks for this idea of drop shot nymphing. It's not allowed everywhere, but when it is, it's an awesome complement to what you guys call french nymphing. All the best!
tried this method yesterday and it was AWESOME! Lost 1 piece of lead and no flies. numerous hits and fish in the net thanks to you!
Geez, learned more in the last 7 min, than the last 7 years...Awesome Kelly, great skit-
This is amazing! All the guides in any shop I've ever been say that unless you're losing flies all the time you're not fishing well, but that makes no sense; I waste more fishing time on snags, breaking off, and tying on new flies than probably anything else.
This rig is incredible! Completely changed the world of nymphing for me, couldn’t catch anything on a nymph until I used this rig, awesome videos! Keep em comin!
How heavy is the weights?
I am always pleased with the quality of questions you get on your channel and the answers always seem to be even better than the questions.....it is a fantastic resource for someone like me and very much appreciated!
I've been using this system for a few months and I catch way more fish and lose way less flies! You are a GOD Kelly Galloup! Thank you
Really enjoyed this video! A fishing buddy of mine started using this rig setup and he loves it. He also said that because of the weight being at the far end it is easier to cast. You don't get that helicopter spin like you do when the split shot is in the middle and sometimes when using a strike indicator as well.
It seems to me this rig may be much easier to sense the strike than the traditional arrangement since the indicator is mostly under tension from the drop shot. Making the take easier to detect will be a massive help to beginner anglers and also to the elderly who are not as sensitive to the strike. Great stuff!
Kelly, you truly are a master of the sport!! I've learned so much from you about fly fishing and Brian from mad river here in Ohio. You two have definitely made me a better fisherman. I love your nymphing techniques much better than ureo, thank you
Kelley, great vid! I'm an Etexas crappie fisherman. Good basics cross over to other types of fishing, and really like your idea for the Perfection Knot. You built a better mouse trap. Sometimes the most basic idea is the best solution. Thanks.
Excellent explanation on your reasoning behind rigging drops for nymphing, with sizes & positioning of flies. It all makes sense to this old PA fly fisherman. New sub here for y’all👍🇺🇸
I love to see that kelly actually calls it a drop shot!! I'm tired of hearing people call it a bounce rig.
Thanks, Kelly. Very informative with great style. Keep em coming
I stumbled upon your videos while watching tying tutorials and have been hooked since. Great content and demonstrations! THANK YOU
Thanks a lot,Kelly!I didn't lose a single fly with this system.And it is so efficient.
This is awesome..It never even occurred to me to tie flies above the weight..Duh...Techniques and strategies is part of the love for fly fishing...Thanks
This has increased my catch rate enormously. If you like me, I'm 60, have difficulty seeing the fine tippet material to tie these, I tie my drop shots on ahead of time to the fly, and then put each into a small ziplock bag, works great, you then just tie on the fly and are good to go!
I'm just starting fly fishing this year and this just made sense. Thanks for all the explanation
Thanks Moy, glad it helped out. Kelly
Just found this site, what a great resource! You've got kind of a real life Tim Allen thing going here, combined with a lifetime of knowledge and experience that you're willing to share. The last two nights watching your videos I've realized just how lazy I've been for the last 10 or 15 years...it's basically been "hopper season" for me from May through October here in s. Utah, with a little primitive (I've learned here) nymphing for whiteys late in the Fall until the guides start to freeze up. How I hate that gravelly sound... Anyway, I've subbed, thanks.
I just want to confirm how well this system works. I've learned to euronymph but often used weight above the bottom fly. Now I use this system, weight on the bottom, with two perfection
loop droppers and BAM! this is deadly. I fish in New England, on some tailwater, and some natural freestones. No matter where, this technique maximizes my fish landed and minimizes equipment lost. I typically tightline and use 5x throughout the rig right up to my bicolor sighter. THANK YOU KELLY!
Robert Olmstead similar for me on the euro rig. I’m debating about completely changing style however I’m concerned about losing the ability to fish super fast water. Have u noticed Any downfalls to dropshotting vs euro? Also do use indicator or sighter?
Robert Olmstead are you loop tags 5x also? What rod length/wt/line type do you prefer? This is going to change things for me on nymphing.
@@wesleywillard Yes. I use 4# fluoro (PLine Halo) for both the perfection loop dropper tags and the drop shot main leader. I've a 10ft rod with 25 ft of 15# yellow amnesia above a bicolor sighter. It's very simple.
@@tannerfurbee5227 I use a sighter. The drop shot is good for superfast water as well as moderate. No downfalls. Positives are less lost flies and simple changes of droppers and the levels of the droppers on the main leader. I use fluoro throughout (4# PLine Halo) even down to #20 flies.
Another video with great info, thank you. Might want to mention that the "inline" set up that you show is not legal in some states. Of course the individual fisherman is responsible for knowing and adhering to the regs of their local waters. Thanks again
I haven't lost a fly yet after two months with drop shot, and my flies spend more time in the water instead of snagging up. Completely sold!
Awesome video Kelly. Great info
Great video with interesting ideas. Ive never thought of putting my wet fly dropper on a loop. However, Ive long used a dry fly on a dropper as an indicator but never seen this idea presented elsewhere. Most put it "in line" or on the tag of a join with all the disadvantages you demonstrate.
Great video. Thanks Kelly
Great video Kelly well explained.
Connecting the dropper with a loop is an interesting idea. The ability to adjust the depth of the dropper is game changing. Definitely going to try it! I'm curious about the potential for the loop to slide up and down the tippet while casting, or while fighting a fish. Also, I wonder if the loop cinching down on the tippet is more prone to breakage than tying a dropper off of a tag end.
It is one of my dreams to meet you one day! LEGEND!!!!
Cheers and tight lines, Raph
Kelly another great video I'm glad I watched the whole thing because I was going to ask if you could just use one or two tippet rings instead of the blood knot or perfection loop. All of this makes perfect sense and having the the fish mount and rocks helps visualize what's going on with this rig. Now I realize why you don't weight your flies and in this type of setup it would definitely be counterproductive plus I agree that unweighted flies act more natural in the current than weighted flies. One question I do have is what size indicator do you use and is it based on the weight of the rig or the type and speed of the current or both? Some of these indicators are bigger than the ones we used to use for fishing for bass with minnows! I always fished tight line high sticking and this just looked weird to me but so many people have switched and are having success that I guess it does work but the older you get the more reluctant sometimes! Thanks again I will definitely give a try.
Cool!😉
Very Nice & Informative video...Those Nimphyng Tecniques Looks promising
Thanks for Share...!
Hi, Kelly. I know this is was posted a long time ago but hope you still see this.
Two questions:
1. I've just learned to use this rig during a recent visit to Montana fishing the Beaverhead and Big Hole. We were using 5X mono tippet on both the leader and dropper loops. Do you have any opinion on fluoro vs. mono for this?
2. Twisting - what is your opinion on incorporating a micro-swivel to attach the rig to a short leader to eliminate this?
Thanks, Brother!
Also forgot to add that when my buddy uses this rig he ties a little knot below the split shot to keep it from sliding off. Then he ties an overhand knot above it so in case he does get snagged on the split shot he only loses that instead of the whole rig.
On my side of Atlantic, we became overly conscious about adding weight to our flies a decade ago. Top anglers, in competitions were using Czech methods and weight, going back longer. It went into mainstream here, about a decade ago. The pendulum swung too far, it generally does. On certain rivers now, Czech methods make no sense at all. On other rivers, it does. There are hungry rivers with the hard bottoms, and torrent waters suitable for Czech, Polish French, Spanish etc. With hydro-electric power generation in Europe, it altered how a lot of rivers behave. The fish behaviors became built around run-off periods from hydro dams. Trout did start to care less about dry fly. Rivers became too enriched too, and that added to it. We ended up with smaller populations of larger sized trout, on many rivers. The hydro-electric schemes altered the feeding behaviors of trout.
Thanks! Great info. I'm going to go home and tie my leader this way. I learned a lot!
I can’t believe I didn’t figure out using perfection loops to add dropper tags. this is going to save me oodles of time on the stream. I just tried it at home and wow man.
Very intriguing. Will give it a "shot" soon.
Haha
i like your theory-you make good sense to me-thank you-great presentation
On certain rivers, I wouldn't waste my time trying to weight flies. But I did notice, that even heavily weighted flies, don't always hit bottom. Everybody talks about weighted flies hitting the bottom. That's not generally what happens. What does happen, is that weight on the hook, changes the motion of the fly a lot. Instead of having something that has life and movement, the edge gets knocked off of that. A bit like listening to great music on a bad set of headphones. One wonders, what happened to the music?
Great video Kelly. So your dropper loops are just a 4”-6” piece of tippet with a perfection loop in at one end that you wrap around your main tippet bringing the tag in through the perfection loop and snugging down? Then tying a knot (is it a standard overhand knot?) below this dropper loop to stop it sliding down into your point fly? To be honest I was using the top tag, pointing back towards my rod and tying in a half hitch above the surgeons knot but as you say with snags or tangles or just standard fly change outs this soon gets chopped down to the point where the entire tippet needs to be changed out. Looking forward to seeing more of your videos soon pal
A belated thank you for a great video. Now, a request: could you go over the advantages/disadvantages of using a bobber vs. tight lining with a drop shot system? Again, thank you for an idea that has changed the way I nymph.
Thanks Alex, I will see if I can work it into the filming schedule. thanks for watching
@@TheSlideinn Even if you don't have time to film, it would be great if you could go over your ideas about using/not using a bobber with a drop shot rig here. It is a question that lots of us must have.
That was great. Johnny don’t let him talk to you like that stand up for yourself. You’re a better fishing person than him anyway. Stay safe have fun.
Hey Kelly .love your stuff. I use a surgerons loop dropper for my drop shot lead . Just put it over the main and let it slide down and stop on the bottom fly...Thoughts??
Kelly is AWESOME I love drop shotting w small streamers
Very informative video. It almost makes me question why I no longer fly fish (big rivers.)
"I have a cold that would kill Johnny"...13:00 hahaaha
13:30 he says "just slide it up and put a knot below it." What does he mean by "put a knot below it"? I understand that the purpose is to keep the loop from moving, but how do you put a knot below your loop? And what kind of knot? The blood knot ties together two different pieces of line, and so that can't be what he means. But neither can he mean that we should just the tippet in a knot below the loop because that would break the line. I don't understand.
Update: A few months ago you answered my question writing: ESS, I use a blood knot but in reality because the fish is not pulling on that knot you can use a double overhand/granny knot as it is simply a stopper. Thanks, Kelly
Two followup questions: 1. A blood knot ties together two separate pieces of line. I don't understand how you put a blood knot into one piece of line. 2. I'm sure I'll use the granny knot, and I understand that if the fish eats the top fly on the loop, it will not put pressure on that granny knot. But if the fish eats the bottom fly that would potentially break the line at that granny knot because the fish would be putting pressure on that granny knot.
Clearly I'm missing something, but I don't know what!
why are people calling this the "Provo River Bounce Rig"?
Woulda been great rig on the Little Manistee, but like you mention in the other video, some places don’t allow weight below the fly.
Your videos are the Best ! I wish you would do more fishing vids because my eyes are way too gone to tie flies.Anyways my question is this . I learned your drop shot method couple years ago and it has Absolutely revolutionized fishing for me.Now trying to get into euro setups.Can you use a euro shorty with sighter and all But run below the tippet ring your drop shot method? Weight on the bottom because as I learned from you non weighted flies are Better.?
Thanks for any help.
I'm assuming this is good for steelheading? I know steelhead are hugging the bottom alot
That is where I started doing this, and why I did the sliding dropper. Most of the fish ate the bottom fly and when it was in line the fish would always catch the upper fly in the trees ( I was in Mi then) anyway I always used lighter tippet on the dropper so when it hung up the dropper broke off and I was still connected. KG
TheSlideinn this is illegal in Michigan. Maybe it wasn’t when you lived here but it’s illegal to hang a weight below a hook on inland waters in Michigan. lol
To me it seems that the dropper line, next to being just 4", also is quite stiff, looking at the size of the fly. What leader material and diameter do you use for that? Normally when I tight line I use a thin fluoro to go through the water column faster, but the dropper is very limp and still gets tangled sometimes.
This is revolutionary! Excellent!
But I’m particularly interested in your sliding dropper loop. But I could not see clearly how you attach it to your mainline. Can you direct me to the details of that connection?
I'd also like to know this. The connection for the upper (lighter) fly is explained, but I don't think the lower one is. Great videos all.
Looks like a great system. Anyone else have a hard time understanding how the perfection loop section was attached to the leader? That bit wasn't clear to me.
Thanks Kelly, I took your drop shot advice and it works, surprise , surprise your videos have saved me hours of trial and error. Keep it up.
Thanks David, glad it helped
HI Kelly, Thanks for the great videos. The detail is amazing! Quick question though; if you had to fish with a single fly due to local regulations would you place your single fly in the location of the top fly in the video or the bottom fly?
Bottom fly for sure,
Attach a 4 inch dropper 9inches from the bottom splitshots .
This will keep the fly 6-12 inches from the bottom which is the strike one for trout
I feel this is a superior system in deeper water maybe knee or greater depth but not really needed in shallower water.
I think of it like those fighter pilots, like in the movie 'Top Gun'. They 'lock on' to a target, and the migratory species can get annoyed if the fly does a Maverick 'fly boy' trick at the wrong time and they miss. Large migratory species, have to conserve their energy. They're like heavy weight boxers. They can't risk swimming to a bait, unless they have it locked on. We tried almost everything here, for the migratory species - double hooks, dressed treble hooks, copper and aluminium tubes. It was all the fashion for a decade or two. In Scandanavia now though, they're taking the weight off the fly again, and using fly lines to fish at the different depths, and different speeds. I think, that that is largely the right way to approach it, if one can.
Awesome video,have 1 question,bought a furled leader 7' 6" dry fly with a attached tippet ring can it be used for drop shot nymphing & can a tippet ring be used instead of blood knot ?
Thank you, Kelly! Super clear…..
This is fantastic, and I have tried it. It is totally flexible etc..I did get a lot of tangles using this. My question is: What if your tippet is say...4X? Do you use 4X for your perfection loops?
Same question. I've not tried this yet but I would imagine you would need to go heavier to keep it standing out.
Have you figured it out? I would also like to know what he normally ties this in.
Ross, I don't go heavier. The perfection loop doubles the line up at the base so I don't have to much problem with it
Thanks for taking the time to answer questions. This method is much better than the standard. I managed to find a diagram on a forum that was credited to you and that showed the details of diameters and lengths. I found it pretty much tangle free when I tried it last night but I needed a better indicator. The yarn that I usually use was not good enough to float all the weight.
I'd drop shot year ago with bait and found it superior for not getting snagged but I'd never done it fly fishing. Things we learn as kids when worming can easily be carried over if we don't get into this mental block of fly vs. gear fishing. Thanks again guys. Great videos.
Using mono on main line and fluro on the tags? Mono on everything? Fluro on everything? Or does it matter in how the rig fished?
J I run all fluro, but don't think it makes much difference. thanks for watching, KG
J, Doesn't really matter. I run straight Fluro, but I did it with mono for the first twenty years with no problems. Thanks for watching. KG
This information is priceless.
So you is the inline done with two clinch knots in the eye or is the fly slid on and stopped with something like a figure 8 knot?
Kelly, have you ever had an issue with your perfection loop loosing, either with or without a fish on, and getting around your blood knot?
But who's Johnny
What rod wt/length and fly line work best for this technique?
I like a 10' 4 wt. KG
What weight does, is it slows down speed at which a fly moves. There are some situations, in which a fisherman can use that. Fish sometimes, love a slow moving bait, as opposed to a fast moving one. I learned that, doing a lot of 'static' fishing. I would categorize this thing of adding weight to the hook, as something to do with the retrieve. Kelly has got a video about retrieve types - vertical up down, or side to side etc. Using lines and rigs, one can achieve specific depths and speeds. If one wants to deaden the movement of the fly further, knock even more edge off of it's jigginess, when adding weight to the hook, is a way to achieve that. But that has to be the objective. One shouldn't add weight, just to get a fly 'down'. That is the mis-comprehension about flies and addition of weight.
+Brian O' Hanlon To reinforce point here, about thickness of wire, used to forge a hook. Look at the classic 'static' type of fly fishing of all, which is the attempt to imitate buzzers that hatch out in lakes. Here, one always notices in the patterns, that a thick gauge of wire is used on the hooks, and the dressing on that thick gauge of wire, is sparse. That is how one achieves a more static behavior of the fly, in the water. Really, what they're doing with buzzer fishing, is adding weight to the hook, in a subtle but significant way. One will always find this, where static fishing is concerned. Where lack of movement is the trigger for the fish to take, instead of movement being the trigger. Certain fish, in circumstances, won't touch a fly if it moves too much.
One thing I'd specify about midge pupae emerger buzzer static fishing, in lakes is that it is a surface technique. The ethafoam ball or whatever, is suspending the fly in the surface film, where the patrolling fish might find it. The extra heavy weight of the thick forged hook, adds a little extra ballast, just enough to counteract the jigginess of the pattern, when using materials like ethafoam etc which float and bounce around too much. It's the same with Czech style patterns. There, there is a lot of floatation material, wrapped around the hook, to add bulk to the pattern, which is essential to trigger the takes. To counteract that floatation bulk, that is on Czech patterns, they add weight to cancel out the patterns natural floatation tendency.
Great tag line method. I’ve tried a few and this is the easiest. I also tried to find formula on your website, but couldn’t find it. Curious what size line you are using for the tag line in this video as it stands out at 90 degrees to blood knot so must be 3x plus? And what size tippet between first and second blood knot? 5x? Thanks for putting out great information.
Same question here.. I picked up some 2x in hopes that it’d do the trick
Jeli i use 4x most of the time on my tags and even 5x on a rare occasion. thanks, KG
Great information in this video.
How far above the lead split shot is the nymph tied ? 6” , 8” , 12” ?
Great video and new subscriber here! Two quick questions...what is the approximate total length of the rig from end of the fly line to split shot at the bottom? Can you use floating mono or fluorocarbon in place of tippet for the initial butt section? Thanks
James , I use anywhere from 10 to 12 foot total, for sure you can use whatever you like for the Butt just keep it light as you can. Thanks for watching. Kelly
what size of line do you use for the loops?
Mike Christenso
Wow, great video. This stuff is great to know and I can't wait to try it out. One question I have is how is the tippet tied onto the bottom fly in order for it to leave line for the split shot? In other words, is it just a simple clinch knot on bend of the hook?
Will I go with both the tippet line and the split shot line out of the eye, thanks for watching. KG
Is the inline rig for the #12 or bigger just the tag of the clinch knot holding the split shot?
Thanks, Kelly. Get well - we are looking forward to seeing your Alaska clinics and presentation. How do you think this rig (with a single hook) would work for red salmon?
+Jolynne Howard There are videos I've watched of the Ohio steelhead rivers, where they use the high stick techniques to catch steelhead coming up from the great lakes, or returning to them. I believe, they fish for these in both springtime and autumn. However, to compensate for the much faster flows and gorges, where the steelhead like to sit, they use quite large pieces of lead. They sometimes hold the lead balls in their palms, and 'thrown' em out. With a team of two or three different steelhead patterns off droppers.
+Brian O' Hanlon I have to confess, that this technique when I watched them using it, was a thing that I found strange. But it did work. To counter Kelly's assertion that in Europe, we can't use split shot in our fly fishing, one a lot of streams and rivers, the worm bait on hook technique is used. Live worms on hooks, and it is fished very like high stick technique, sort of actively drifting the bait with rod held high to follow current. The Ohio steel head fishers, use egg flies and worm flies, which are fluorescent artificial imitations of live baits. Steelhead grab them, when high sticked through a deep, fast current seam.
+Brian O' Hanlon I know that they do use these patterns, when fishing for red salmon in northern pacific parts, so there's no reason why the high stick system shouldn't work, same as does for steel head. The Ohio steelhead fishers, use both an indicator and several split shot on end of their leaders, with flies above the split shot at different depths. But a lot of them fish, with the indicator out of the water completely - it's not sitting on the surface. That is, indicator is there sort of as a depth guide, in mid air, not quite like in nymphing technique.
You’re a legend, thank you!
Kelly what fly tying manual do you recommend?
is it crazy to use tungsten drop shot weights like in bass fishing with your rig?
Not at all, whatever gets it to the bottom. I like to be able to change quick so unless there is a new style out there the weights I have seen will be harder to put it on and off. The tungsten putty is a little soft for the feel I like but will work. KG
Kelly. I’m looking for high quality calf belly hair. Any suggestions?
Almost always ran into difficulties at some point when using my tag as my dropper line, whether it be wind direction change mid cast, bad bast or the fishing Gods toying with me even after adding a half hitch to get that 90’ stand off angle it just ended in a tangled mess at some point. Just the way I was shown I guess but that perfection look doubled over the tippet and above the surgeons knot is a cracking idea, my dropper line was always too long from what your advising too. Thanks for the tip and for the in-line advice for the larger flies
Great video.
Naive question. ....do you put a knot below the splitshot or do you just pinch it on?
you can, but it doesn't slip off very often without
Great video thanks Kelley
Great video ,thanks.Do you ever use beadheads or weighted flys?
Not with this system. No real advantage other than attractor since the weight(s) sit below the flies. The fly's need to move downstream above the weight. Tight lines.
Hey Kelly! I've been using the drop shot rig for a few weeks now and holy cow have I been landing more fish. One question: it seems like no matter where I go I I only catch whitefish or suckers. Do you have any idea why? I use traditional nymphs. Hardly use bead head flies.
Skylar, no idea on that one. Maybe you are down where they live but even so there are always trout with the whitey's. Are you getting anything on the upper fly? if your getting both whitefish and suckers you are down where the trout live also so I am guessing they are just faster to the fly. Could be something about the fly that is putting the trout off and making the others eat it first, just guessing there?
TheSlideinn Curious. I am getting an equal distribution on both flies. Today I actually had a dual hookup. First time that's ever happened to me. I'm doing a lot of fishing on the Crooked River in Central Oregon and the river has a very healthy whitefish population, so it doesn't surprise me to be catching them. I'll keep trying different flies combinations and different sections in the column. Any tips that I might try?
Keep all shine off the bottom fly, nothing reflects light that low in the water so Mr White might just be a little more drawn to the shine.
How do you transition from the butt section of the leader to this rig?
How do you hook up the bottom fly with the dropper weight? Do you tie a separate knot through the eye of the bottom fly to the weight? Or rig the bottom fly and weight differently. Please explain I'm wanting to try this setup on my next trip instead of adding the split shot in the middle of the two flies.
David, Yes you tie a separate piece of mono (6 inches or so) thru the bottom fly's eye, generally one X lighter so it breaks before your fly does if it gets hung up
TheSlideinn thank you for the reply back. I usually put weight either above both flies or in the middle of them both. I'm going to try this method on my next trip and hopefully this will increase my numbers.
I just leave 6" on the tag end. That's what i snap a splitshot to.
How do you match the beads to the hooks to hooks sizes
Have you ever used this system on still water ?
For the inline nymph are you tying two knots in the eye, tying it to a tag end of the 4x - 5x blood knot or are you doing a bass fishing palomar style where you drop the tag end back through the eye of the hook?
Andrew, I tie two lines in. I don't like using tags as droppers in any style, I am always afraid that I weaken the know when I yank on tags, and I never lose a fly if I lose my weight and when I used to use the tag end I would occasionally lose the fly as well if I got hung up. KG
So is that why you only tie up to a size 12 in line? Because you can't tie two knots in the eye otherwise? Or is because the line would prevent hooks up at smaller sizes? Thanks for getting back to me about this. I really appreciate you teaching me how to fish.
Andrew, it is two fold. Most important is that in line on flies smaller than a 12 just don't get any movement when tied in line. I prefer them to be on droppers so they don't look so ridged, and can move freely in the current. I also like that the fly on a dropper can get to fish without bumping into the line when it is tight between the lead and leader like it is when you go eye to eye. Thanks, Kelly
Thanks so much, Kelly for explaining that. I understand much better now.
TheSlideinn so do you prefer to have no weights on either flies, and just let the split shot pull the line down?
I saw your fish mounts, very cool, do you get skin mounts or replicas?
Reese Milburn most likely replicas, these guys are c&r freaks
I do this with a spinning rod, but without an indicator and about a 1/4 ounce weight on the bottom. It’s not the prettiest thing ever but it sure as hell works.
Thanks Kelly!!
Clever setup!
What is rule of thumb for how high you put your indicator over top fly or off bottom? 1.5 depth?
Cad, 1.5 to 2 times the depth of the water from the lead, regardless of the system it is from the lead, it is the constant the thing that tells you that you are on bottom. If you are using an anchor fly as your weight then it is from that fly. Then you set the flies above the anchor fly or the lead if that's what your using to get down to the depths you want them. If the water is fast or deep you generally go 2 times the depth . thanks, Kelly
Hello, can you drop shot without the indicator?
Thanks
you can for sure! If you take the indo off it becomes more like tightline nymphing or euro nymphing.
How would you put a stop knot below top fly on the dropper loop if you want to move it up?
ESS, I use a blood knot but in reality because the fish is not pulling on that knot you can use a double overhand/granny knot as it is simply a stopper. Thanks, Kelly
Thanks tons, gotta love it--those bass gear heroes know their shit, haha. With this system, I'll start fishing more nymphs no doubt instead of losing them in the rocks, lol.