Do Not Use Green Glue To Soundproof
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มิ.ย. 2024
- FREE Soundproofing Workshop: www.soundproofyourstudio.com/...
Soundman2020 Blog - forum.digistar.cl/viewtopic.p...
Books I Recommend - (Affiliate Links)
Home Recording Studio: Build It Like The Pros by Rod Gervais: amzn.to/48ONVF6
Home Recording Studio Design by Philip Newell - amzn.to/4b7zyxd
Master Handbook Of Acoustics by F. Alton Everest and Ken Pohlmann: amzn.to/3Olwio7
Yup, I said it. I am taking a stance on green glue and I do not use it in any of my studio designs. In this article I will make the argument why not.
1) Reason 1: The Added Cost
First, Green Glue costs a ton of money and most home studios don't have big budgets.
A soundproof wall typically uses two layers of 5/8" (16mm) drywall on either side of a double wall system. You can see the diagram below as an example. The cost of 1 layer of drywall is $17.87 here in the United States. That is $0.56 per square foot.
Now a pail of green glue costs $394.88 at Buildcorp Direct. They say that covers 380 Sq/ft. That means the cost of Green Glue is $1.04 per Sq/ft. At The Soundproofing Company a 5 gallon pail of Green Glue costs $406.69 and covers 365 Sq/ft. That comes out to $1.11 Sq/ft. Also, remember the cost of the speed load gun to apply the green glue is around $65.
Now lets average those two costs. The average cost for Green Glue is then $1.08/SqFt. Remember, to that for smaller projects where you don't need a pail of Green Glue the cost will be higher.
Now, Green Glue on average costs $1.08/square foot. That means the cost of adding green glue is almost the same as adding two more layers of drywall to your wall. As I will talk about in the next section adding two layers of drywall will certainly be better than adding Green Glue.
Now you may say, well I could add Mass Loaded Vinyl instead of drywall or Green Glue. The answer would be that the cost would again be even more for MLV and I would argue not worth the added damping it provides.
5/8" drywall weights around 2.2 Lb/SqFt. MLV weighs 2 Lb/SqFt. The cost of 2 Lb MLV is $179.95 and covers 50 SqFt. That is $3.60 per square foot. That is six times the cost of drywall and over three times the cost of Green Glue. So when you want to build a studio for $15-20K why would you waste money on Green Glue and MLV when you could add more drywall for less money?
Now you are going to say, Wilson, but I don't have space for more drywall. My answer would be you will lose 5/8" of an inch on each wall. If you want to save that space and spend way more money doing it then go ahead, but it is not a logical conclusion in my opinion.
2) Reason #2 - Mass is better than damping
In soundproofing we have two systems that help with sound attenuation. The first is mass and the second is damping. Mass is most important because without mass you cannot stop sound, especially low frequencies. You cannot hang RockWool insulation and stop sound, just like you cannot hang MLV and hope to stop sound. Both of those substances, like Green Glue absorb sound through damping, which is the conversion of sound to heat through frictional or restrictive forces.
Mass on the other hand reflects sound. A solid concrete wall will reflect more sound than a wall with only drywall. Mass also reflects low frequencies better than damping alone. For this reason, it is always better to add mass first and damping second.
When you are on a budget...read rest of article on my blog - www.soundproofyourstudio.com/...
Works Cited:
Gervais, Rod. Home Recording Studio: Build It Like The Pros. 2nd Edition, Course Technology Cengage Learning, 2011.
“Green Glue Test Results - Soundman2020 - Studio Design Forum.” Forum.digistar.cl, forum.digistar.cl/viewtopic.php?t=773. Accessed 28 Mar. 2024.
Philip Richard Newell. Recording Studio Design. New York ; London, Routledge, Taylor & Francis Group, 2017.
0:00 - Intro
0:59 - 1. Green Glue Is To Expensive
4:26 - 2. Mass is better than damping
7:14 - 3. STC Ratings only go down to 125Hz
9:34 - 4. The Pros Don't Use Green Glue
11:52 - Green Glue Needs To Be Re-tested
15:27 - Carpet Glue
16:50 - Conclusion
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FREE Soundproofing Workshop: www.soundproofyourstudio.com/workshop
We're just about finished with our live room build out. I've always been skeptical of product marketing and opted for more drywall, regular caulk and standard insulation. I'm super happy with the results so far and am glad to see people putting out good, real world advice on this subject!
Great to hear!
would be interested in hearing what your design approach was. I'm partitioning off an area in the garage, plan is to go floor to ceiling with two pieces of drywall on inside and outside with air gap, hadn't planned the ceiling yet, was thinking extra layer of drywall and green glue screwed into existing (I bought a bunch of this studio guys leftover supply for cheap so I might as well use it). Thanks
Told you so. Big respect for being humble and accepting we all make mistakes in our deeds and thinking. I heard someone describe the “turns sound into heat claim” as “so does a dead cat or anything impacted by energy”
Yup always good to keep learning
Been watching all of these videos for some time now, in anticipation for building my next home studio. They have helped tremendously! Green glue in particular has been something I have been debating the cost vs. value of. Thank you for your consistency of high quality content!
Glad to help!
I spent a fortune once in Texas on a studio. I used mlv and green glue and 5/8 drywall. More 5/8 definitely would have been far better.
Great to hear! A lot of people say I am too theoretical but it is hard to build studios just to test. This helps uphold the science
Loved this video! And perfect timing for my project.
Glad it was helpful!
I found someone on Offer Up selling Green Glue for $70 per 5 gal bucket. I bought two, sold one of them for $200, used about 2 1/2 gallons on my vocal booth then sold the remainder for $30. I applied it between my drywall layers. I have no idea if it makes a difference but since I got the glue for such a deal the only downside was applying it, and the thought that it really doesn't make a difference.
I love how you think about applying theory in the imperfect real world! My imperfect situation is that I've got an existing aluminum skinned barn structure not far from a highway. Sound isolation is gonna be so important and so tricky here. My contractor friend recently suggested putting a layer of cement board between the structure and the skin to add mass to the outside wall. I'm also thinking now about the idea of adding extra mass to the inside wall instead of green glue or mlv as a good way to fight that highway noise! Thanks so much for the video!
Glad it helped
Great Video cheers
Thank you! Cheers!
Thanks so much!!! I was thinking it must be just me...the math of using green glue or MLV is questionable at best (cost/benefit ratio). Specifically, because of YOUR videos my next DIY build (home theater) will be 2x6 plates with 2x3's placed perpendicularly every 24" (allows for 2.5" to 4" air gap) with insulation and double 5/8" dry wall each side (with the exception of the ceiling and two walls facing basement cement walls with double 5/8" drywall just on home theater room side).
Sealing air gaps and adding mass to door and that's it. For a 17x17 room with 9' walls the additional drywall cost for me will be just about $750 plus insulation. I figure STC rating around 55. That's a pretty decent cost/benefit ratio. For a recording studio you want to hit the STC 60's so you'll need to go up another level...double wall, MLV and/or QuietGlue Pro kind of a thing.
The bottom line is the simplicity of walls with a wider air gap, insulation and double 5/8" drywall is the foundation for good soundproofing. Above that you are talking professional level stuff.🙂
Yes! You are seeing the simplicity and beauty of isolation design. No for your home theater you could get more isolation and acoustic benefits by using a Philip Newell acoustic wall design. Save money for acoustics and get the iso where it needs to be.
Liquid Nails is another option, although it's rather rigid when dry, so it may transmit more.
I'm not sure if flexibility is good/better, but silicone caulking materials retain elasticity when cured, and are available in bulk for lowish costs.
I have heard of people using silicone dots in a pattern on the drywall. Could be worth trying. Really this becomes experimental very quickly and most pros tend to have their own methods that they know work.
Refreshing to see someone who's been constantly recommending Green Glue change his mind as he got new information. That's the scientific process right there!
Personally, I already had removed Green Glue from my list as it's stupidly expensive to get it where I live(Quebec, Canada). I couldn't find it locally(it's shown on Home Depot's website, but has been out of stock for over a year, so...) and cheapest I could find online is $360 for 12 tubes, not including tax and shipping fees. Couldn't find it in bucket format. Since 2 tubes is needed for each drywall sheet, it's over $60 per drywall sheet, that's ridiculous!
I am contemplating the idea of using carpet glue as a soundproofing compound. It's cheap enough that I think it's worth giving it a try. I can get a 1 gallon bucket of Roberts 6700 (a recommended carpet glue for this usage) locally for $38.98. I'm not exactly sure how much I can cover with this, but that can probably easily cover 3-4 sheets of drywall, maybe more. That's several times cheaper than using green glue. My only concern is that the glue might eventually get harder over time and lose the sound dampening capabilities after a couple years, where actual soundproofing compounds are more guaranteed to stay flexible...
Also, slightly off topic, Is there a difference between a vapor barrier sealant and an acoustic sealant? Seems like the two are interchangeable. They both won't dry and stay sticky. Do you think the LePage PL Acousti-Seal would do a great job to fill the cracks between drywall sheets? I can get it for a decent price.
" My only concern is that getting harder over time" well sir, that's exactly why green glue was made the way it is and is expensive. If you find a non-hardening version then you're good.
@@Espiritiv I said it MIGHT get hard over time. I really don't know for sure. It may as well stay sticky. I just said that compounds that are designed for that specific purpose are pretty much guaranteed to not do that, or at least they shouldn't.
@@HCkevI hear you, I know that green glue sealant is not worth it because you can get acoustic sealant such as USG Sheetrock sealant or OSI F38 for about $5 a 28oz tube at your local drywall distributor. If someone can show me a green glue adhesive alternative I'd buy it.... Never seen one
Yeah if the sealant stays flexible you are good to go. Again lots of marketing around specific soundproof sealants. I personally would never use carpet glue for just that reason. It is a glue and is meant to bind two things together which is not what you want. I also think there is too much at stake to experiment. We are talking tens of thousands of dollars.
Hey Wilson, what about Acoustical sealants ? It would be nice if you did recommendations on that as well. It is almost as expensive as the noiseproofing compound. And are there cheaper alternatives that does as good a job when it comes to fill airgaps ? Thank you for your useful videos.
I came to comments to ask the same thing. GG Glue can clearly be replaced by mass, but it doesn't seem like sealants can be replaced by anything else.
I wouldn’t use green glue sealant. I like titebond at Home Depot or Lowe’s or any flexible caulking sealant. The key is it must remain flexible.
What about fire stopping clay behind outlet boxes? Worth the time and money?
Can I use two layers of plasterboard screwed on top of each other or does something need to go between these layers, like carpet glue? What can I use to go between other than green glue or Tecsound as these are expensive? Thanks
Yeah you don’t need anything in between…crazy I know. It means a lot of companies can’t take your hard earned money
Hi what type of 5/8 drywall do you recommend? I've hear Type X and Type C Gypsum Firecode board is preferred for isolation purposes due to its composition and supposedly being more dense than other types of drywall. Is this something that is worth the extra money over cheaper alternatives or is this another case where more layers will make a more meaningful difference?
Type X is what you should use.
@@soundproofyourstudio Thank you!!
I used Audimute Peacemaker instead of Green Glue when I soundproofed my shed. It’s an alternative to MLV and cost about $.75 sq ft. I put it between two layers of 1/2” drywall because Lowes had some on clearance that was too good of a deal to pass up. I would’ve preferred 5/8” but 34 sheets of 1/2” only cost me $60. As I added each layer I would get my wife to bang on a drum as I stood outside listening. Not very scientific but that’s all I could do. With safe and sound insulation, 1/2” plywood covered by asbestos siding covered by T-111 siding, it does a pretty good job of keeping the noise down.
Thanks for sharing
Green glue also does not apply evenly on all panels and runs down your walls due to gravity. Each part of your walls will have different characteristics because of the lack of consistency.
Interesting, that stuff is super sticky I can’t imagine it running too much, but good point
I thought the idea of green glue - IS 2 layers of drywall - with the green glue in between??... That's what I did when I built lesson studios in my music store 15 years ago... Are you saying - just the 2 drywall layers would have sufficed? It all worked pretty good - isolated the rooms from each other ok... rooms were next to each other - and had 5 rooms and 5 lessons going on at once (no drum lessons), and never had any real issues...
Yeah you definitely went all out, but I’m sure it worked well.
My vote goes to regular silicone sealant, ‘cheap as chips’ and should add some value to the layers
You can always try it.
So doyou think that green glue plus 2 x DW is less effective and more expensive than 3x DW? I've always understood it that more Mass has a diminishing return, but adding dampening helps you in the low end. You mentioned at the end of your video that GG+2xDW should be replaced with 4xDW. Honestly can't see how 2x the material and labor is cheaper than just adding green glue
If you are set on using green glue I would recommend quiet glue pro or other competitors since you pay a huge premium just for the name.
@@soundproofyourstudio Yes, thank you for that tip. What do you think about cost of triple or four-layer drywall versus just drywall 2x and green glue?
Ok,
So before I post my pending response, I did watch the full video and a lot of things were briefly touched on. Aside from the title (which I'll let slide for a sec), I genuinely would love to know what your actual goal for this video is. Who is it intended for? What do you hope that specific audience will do with the information?
Your response will affect my response.
Thanks! Alex Jenkins
My goal is to show that you can achieve great results without most “soundproofing products” I also wanted to point out the green glue is very expensive and is not needed to get the results people want. Some swear by it some don’t but at the end of the day your money could be spent elsewhere in my opinion.
@@soundproofyourstudio
Do you currently incorporate damping into any of your wall, ceiling or floor solutions/recommendations?
I'm writing from Fargo, ND where Green Glue was invented. This all makes sense, but what about the cost of labor either from a contractor or the "cost" to a DIYer in terms of time and effort? Transporting double the amount of DW and moving it around inside of a house for example. And of course installing it. Green Glue costs more MONEY, but is it easier and faster to install than extra layers of DW? I've never done any of this so just offering some food for thought.
Green Glue is designed to be used between 2 pieces of drywall, I think the point of the video is that it's unnecessary. So there would be less labor if omitted.
@@asteroidmrecords You aren't seeing the big picture. Green Glue does work, but not as much as more drywall does is all.
You're missing the basic picture, which is you still have to use double drywall to use green glue. You don't glue use green glue on a single sheet, your point doesn't make any sense from a practical standpoint. Anyone who's doing a double side drywall build out can save a ton of money with decent caulk @srtswpak47
@@werewolfmedialv We are talking about a 3rd or 4th layer of DW (without GG) instead of say 2 layers with GG. There is additional labor hauling around and installing twice the drywall. It is basic you can't use GG with a single layer and that's not lost on me.
@@srtswpak47 I think most people in the diy soundproofing community are installing their own, which is who this channel seems to be catering to. There was a myriad of other points as to why not to use gg but to respond to your scenario, most folks here aren't paying for labor. The other points like the inaccurate data sheet after the formula change or stc ratings not going below 125 means that there is no real science to back up the marketing claims gg makes. Then you throw in that actual professional studio designers don't use and it's hard (in my opinion) to make a good argument for it's purchase and use, when carpet glue exists.
I've heard from a gearspace forum post that quiet glue pro has issues with runniness/leaking out of the walls. Seems to have been confirmed by multiple users, but in at least one instance it was probably a factor due to heat. Also, this youtube video has some interesting tests comparing different glues: th-cam.com/video/UtxduYYXoVY/w-d-xo.html
That video also shows that the quiet glue had an issue with running out of the walls (see 18:30 in that video). So at least as of that time (june 2016), green glue was the best performer, with carpet glue as an honorable mention. Then the concern would really come down to cost I suppose.
actually, the poster of that video confirmed that the runniness of quite glue was only an initial issue, and in the long term it didn't have any more running issues and performed well. Also, the user on the gearspace forum was likely using quiet glue that had been sitting on the shelf for too long, so I guess quiet glue could still be a reasonable choice if the price is right and it wasn't stored too long.
Thanks for sharing