King Seiko 4502 Hi-Beat 36000 Review
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ส.ค. 2024
- FINALLY a review of one of my favorite watches of all time, the King Seiko 4502, a 1971 TRUE Hi-beat manual wind movement that not only beats at 36000 bph, but also comes with an instant date change and is the only Seiko movement ever to be certified as an observatory Chronometer at Neuchatel, making it the most accurate mechanical movement Seiko ever sold.
In fact those movement was offered in 5 accuracy grades, King Seiko, King Seiko Chronometer, Grand Seiko, Grand Seiko VFA and Astronomical Observatory Chronometer. Most are time only versions with KS and regular GS being offered with a date complication as well.
This basic KS version is one of the best looking IMO as it represents the Grammar of Design set by Taro Tanaka perfectly, making the watch distinctly and uniquely a Seiko. There is no chance of confusing this with some other brand
I bought this watch from Japan a year ago and finally got to review it.
the caseback is custom made and it costed $140, but I am collaborating with another manufacturer and will try to make these at $50, so stay tuned if you are interested
For buying watches from Japan I use and highly recommend Zenmarket:
bit.ly/zm-watc...
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I love the Tanaka case designs of this era, very bold but also minimalist and stylish enough to not go out of fashion, uniquely Japanese looking.
I really like the idea of the caseback, such a tidy and well put together movement should be on show, it looks so good for something that wasn't intended to be viewed.
yes, it is very timeless for a timepiece
Very nicely done. Glad you mentioned the stuttering second hand, thought my eyes were cashing out for a moment. The owner of a high beat Grand Seiko (SBGH051) the sweep of the second hand is considerably more consistent/fluid, expected considering they’ve had plenty of time for movement refinement. Thanks for sharing a beautifully preserved example, it ‘s both a superlative and significant time piece. Ciao!
The design is timeless. Good video.
Another great inspiration vid! Just received my 45-7000 today! And your description of the watch and wear is spot-on!! Subscribed 👍
Wow!!! Instant date change, my $7,000 grand Seiko didn’t have that I sold it. I will be buying one of these in its place.
Just got my 5625-7000 two weeks ago, the case looks gorgeous, and the automatic movement is running +5 sec per day, I think it’s amazing considering the watch is 50 years old!!!
That is amazing, but if I were you I would take it to a watchmaker to check it out as it may need a service despite running so good
I have learnt allot here. Great video and education. Hi Beat really are something special, ironically I have a few ladies retro Seikos lying around waiting for me to fix them and they are all hi beat (not as fast though)
Seiko still remain my favourite brand. Quality and functionality at a price point that everyone can enjoy.
Special ones like yours thankfully are I think all owned by collectors who appreciate them .
Liking the subtle changes to your intro etc.
Thanks for watching and I find Seiko to be one of the most interesting brands out there as they have so many amazing models a collector can discover
Enjoyed the video. That case back would make me take my watch off and look at it all the time.
Grammar of design at its best... lovely!!!
Great review of a great watch!
Looks like it's in great condition as well.
spectacular! how i wish Grand Seiko produce manual wound movement just for old times sake! Great choice to substitute the original caseback. Congrats as well with your new equipment, it captures every micro detail of a high end seiko.truly impressive
they do produce a manual wind
They do produce manual wind, but for special GS commemorative models only. These are usually in precious metal and can easily go into tens of thousands of dollars.
gmshadowtraders you can buy a SBGW231 for $3500. New. Steel case and non limited edition like most of the manual winds Seiko produces using the 9S64.
They make a standard production manual wind in steel but not a hi beat. SBGW231
That's easily a $1000 - $1500 watch, even more for a mint example. You are looking at an absolute legend folks. Oh, and fuck Rolex. Regards, G.
Great timepiece and love the history. What a great way to wear your education about this storied brand on the wrist.
Thanks so much for this review. I enjoy the simplicity of a hand wind movement.
very nice video ... excellent camera skills .. everything is perfect you made me love watched even more
Thanks for the kind words 😊
Very Classy n Elegant!!! Awesome Time Piece, Very Nice Quality in your Filming Equipment!!! Thanxs!!! As always!!! 😀
Thanks 😊
Superb movement!
Beautiful watch and love the upgraded case back. Nice review:)
Thanks 😊
Amazing King Seiko. I am picking one up tomorrow. Cannot wait!
Fantastic video, thankyou. After seeing this, I have just purchased a identical 1969 4502-7000 KS from Japan. I have managed to find the manufacturer of the clear case backs, and a place that re-does the Zaratsu polishing. With the incredible history and mechanical prowess of this specific 45 movement, I will be a long term and very happy owner.
Congrats and welcome to a very small club 😄
Do you know if OEM crystals are still available and have you seen the case polishing done by Lapinist?
@@fairfaxa i highly doubt OEM is available unless as used items, and YES, the Lapinist is SICK 😷
Hahah, by ‘Sick’ I hope you mean very good? I looked at his work and he appears to make them better than new, without any overall case erosion.
@@fairfaxa yup, sick as in out of this world good 😍
Elegant watch. Amazing movement.
Amazing video. I have KS 4502 in black color. Not sure if Seiko made in black because bought mine on Ebay and never seen in black but all the movement and case are genuine King Seiko. Seller described as refinished and cleaned the dial. Wasn't sure if they repainted the whole dial in black or just cleaned because it look like completely new and all the hour makers, hands and letters are perfect and legit.
My only problem with the watch was the second hand stuttering ticks at some places and thought that resell it but after watched your video, your watch also same stuttering and realized how the way it was. Now, I decided to keep my beautiful black KS along with my GS. So thank you for saving my KS. I would love to pay $150 custom case back if available and I can buy at somewhere. To me manual winding watches are go along with exhibition case back than automatic movement, especially on this KS 4502. Thank you for the video.
The stuttering seconds hand is the result of the indirectly driven seconds hand, it is normal on such movements
@@WatchGeek Thank you for reply. I have it more than a year and didn't wear that much because I thought the movement was defected but thanks to you, this is going to be keeper.
Great video with good combination of information and cinematography!
Thanks 😊
Excited review.
Thank you
I do love these. I have a few Seiko dress watches but a KS is on my list. Thanks for the great review.
Thanks for watching 😁
I like the car analogy. I wouldn't be winding this one every day.
Nice cheaper alternative to oyster perpetual date, my favorite rolex. A far cheaper (practically free) alternative is a Seiko 5 which is the only one of those I have :))
It is better the seiko
And more importantly, the movement craps all over anything Rolex released during the same time period!
I need that caseback if it fits a 5645-7010!! Money is no object!!!
A very nice piece of history you have there.
Thanks 😊
that modification is just made perfect sense and elevate it more.
Too bad you advice against using it daily, i would want to have that as daily wear
i'm contemplating on getting either 4502 or 5626, I do admire and respect the 36k hi-beat but I don't want to daily a hi-b watch. Prices are a bit cheaper on 5626 and 4502 is twice the price of 5626. Great video btw, learn a lot in one video.
I had a 56 before i got this, it is a bit thicker, but automatic and works really well. One thing about the 56 is they have a plastic quick set date part that can brake due to age, so if you get one, make sure not to use the quick set date often, or better, don't use it at all
@@WatchGeek thanks for your input, helps me with my decision, as much as I'd like a 4502 i think i'm going with a 5626, i'm aware of the plastic quick set date issue, I think i will try not to use it too much.
i love this watch, it does indeed scream Seiko both on the outside and on the inside too.
Superb review. That’s one hell of a watch.
Lovely. I had been looking for this too. Congratulations.
I also love that case design. Angular yet curved, with careful intent for both. Thanks for mentioning the gravity-induced hand stutter. My OCD was driving me crazy.
Sekio! Always leading never following...
Enjoyed this review, well done as usual. Thank you
That is the best looking case I've ever seen. Plus 36000 bph and instant date change.
New grail watch. Looks better than modern grand seiko imo.
Did you install that case back yourself?
I like the look of King Seiko over the Grand Seiko.
So do I. The GS case lugs were in most cases far too rounded along with the cases in general. I find them too metro male aesthetically. Alpha's prefer King Seiko😂
great video, very well documented. and what an awesome Grail! thanks for sharing that.
that's a beautiful looking ks!
Thanks
Great video!
Such a cool watch to have in the collection. Great video Watch Geek!
Thanks, the Neuchatel competitions video is coming out tomorrow 😁
My next watch ...Great video!
I love the case on this watch!
beautiful watch. Good idea with the display back.
Thanks 😊
Best watch ever...❤
Hello @watchgeek. Where did you get the see through case back?? 👀 wow beauty!!
Also what is better? 4502-7010 (recently serviced) vs 5626-7111 vs 5626-7041 Chronometer.
Is the 4502-7010 made the same way as you mentioned for you 45? Or is it automated version?
Thank you!!
I got it in yahoo auctions Japan, the 45 is 36000bph, 56 is 28.800
Also the 56 has a plastic date setting pallet that brakes off easily due to it being 50 years old.
But the 45 has an indirectly driven seconds hand so it jitters sometimes.
It's up to you, both are great
@@WatchGeek thanks for the reply. I personally prefer the 45 due to its hand built movement etc. Is it also Zaratsu polished like GS? Also, what are the differences between this 4502-7010 and your 45? What is a good price to pay for the 7010? Thanks again as I need your input on this as may be pulling thr trigger.
Beautiful watch definitely a short term grail
got the watch...and now i'm obsessed with the caseback :(
let me know if the project are ready :D :D
Unfortunately the first attempt has ended as a fail, it doesn't fit, so now the manufacturer is trying the second one
@@WatchGeek i'll wait for the update...and so my watch begin :D :D
@@WatchGeek and just a question, my KS 4502 crown spinning back a bit after each forward wind...are you experiencing the same?? or it's just me :|
Yes, I think it's normal
@@WatchGeek today I've purchase a 4502-7000, any news for the caseback? I think it' s a "must-have" for The King
Hi. I’ve received mine yesterday and it’s absolutely a great piece of horology. I think we also have the same bracelet. Anyway, did you know that Seiko produced this movement 1 year before girard perregaux? But they put it on the market only in 68/69. If you’re lucky, you can still find some KS with that early serial number.
Congrats 😁👍
Underrated
Hi, great video ! I've just bought one in Nakano Broadway, Japan dated 1970. Any news about the transparent back case to be fitted in my KS4502-7000 ? You've mentionned a Japan made at around 50$ ? Best regards 🙏🏽
Hello Dear Sir!
How were you able to contact Seiko to make you a transparent back casing?
I would love to know so I can get one myself!
Awesome video by the way!
I was so glad you made another video of your KS 4502 !
⚡⚡
It is not made by Seiko but a guy in Japan.
I am currently waiting for one manufacturer to let me know the cost of making these in larger numbers. The goal is to keep these under $50
I m interested as well! ;)
I'll let you all know when the manufacturer contacts me with more info
Hey do you have a link for that clear caseback? I just bought a cap gold Grand seiko and the medallion on the back still has pieces of the original blue it's so unworn!! I need to preserve it
The case shape is really cool
Beautiful watch and one of my favorites. 'Grats and nice looking video. 👍
Thanks 😊
Stunning example!
Another great vid. Thanks. They're always interesting... and well researched. I do admire that. With all the stats about accuracy, I just have to ask though, what sort of time does yours keep?? Or is that irrelevant for a 50 year old watch??
The specified a accuracy really doesn't mean a lot when the watch is this old, but mine has been serviced and regulated by my local watchmaker and it is within +4 second a day which I find more than acceptable
Sounds good enough to me also. :-)
love that watch, great video!! do u know de reference or name for that case?
Excellent video. I have the exact same watch and loving it.
In the eyes of a connoisseur, a classic high end THREE CENTRE HANDS Manual WIND, with long minute hand, and an even longer second hand, is the considered the best of watches. When people says, 'High horology need not be expensive,' this would the best example.
One step up would be the GS, e.g. 4522 7000. Just by looking at the longer minute and second hands, you know that it's higher class than this KS. That's why it cost twice as much. One step down is the Lord Marvel 5740, with shorter minute and second hands, non-hacking, and no-date. That's why it cost half of the KS.
I also have the latest SBGW231, bought new at 3K. This one runs at 4Hz but with 72 hr power reserve. It gives me plus 3 sec in a WEEK! It's a luxury to see the long second hand sweeping smoothly. That's why i am not a fan of small sub second hand though it makes the watch thinner, especially when it's non-hacking. Complications are wonder, and, for me, it's just what it is - complicated, but, it does mean better, in my view.
The finishing of the mechanism is spectacular. Put it beside a Patek and compare. It shines brighter on most parts except for some finer details. See it for yourself. It's pretty rare in Patek, though, and one could cost you a Benz or a BMW.
Wonder when Rolex would come out with one and make themselves credible? In this world of marketing, unless you know this basic principle, you would be so intoxicated that there would be no chance for you to wake up to this simple truth.
GS will be launching a new hand wind mechanism under the SBGK series. It has the small second hand and power reserve sub dial for symmetrical look. Bec of the complications, it's built with 33 jewels, but, it's rated as a 9S63 caliber, lower than the SBGW 9S64 which has only 24 jewels. So, you actually pay more for less, but, it does come with the beautiful Iwateyama dial. I have the SBGH047 limited to 150 pieces which has this same dial. It's also a snow effect pattern which looks like fur, but, the Snowflake is nicer.
Unfortunately Seiko managed to make that more than 12mm thick which I simply don't understand how they achieved that. This one is 9.8 WITH the aftermarket clear caseback
@@WatchGeek What they really need is a good marketing man in west.
I have many smaller and thinner watches. There's really nothing special about them. They are just small and thin watches compensated with lower specs mechanisms. They have these in their Credor line. These are serious 'Dress watches.' GS watches are more of casual wear, for everyday use, and therefore need to be more robust. It's just like the Omega Tressor, also a TCH manual wind. It's 11mm tks but with a lower power reserve (there are many example like this). The SBGW is just a shade thicker at 11.6mm, but, it wear really small, like most Seiko watches. The Japanese, being smaller people, is expert in making bigger watches to fit themselves.
Bec, me, my wife, and my children like sport watches, which are bigger, we are very comfortable with GS dimensions. We also swap our bigger GS e.g the Peacock, Iwateyama, SBGE201 with leather strap, and, they wear really nice and fit better for smaller wrist. They look exquisite and at the same time, rugged. They are very versatile.
Most of our dress watches are really under-used. They are out of place on most occasions. Vintage watches are different. They are what they are - vintage. They are not your everyday watch either. We are really spoil for choices. If we see it this way, then, it's a good thing, haha.
You have one hell of a collection 👍👍
@@WatchGeek But, i don't have the 4S laurel, so you are one up on me, haha... They are selling at such a high price. Some of them are really nice. Anyway, i won't be buying the SBGK. Small second hands are too common. It looks like you are getting more so you pay more but you are actually getting less, haha...
I have a Seiko Lord Marvel hi beat. Would your see through caseback also fit my LM? Thanks for the excellent and Informatieve video.
Great video, thanks you.
Video @ 1:23 " I opted for custom made clear caseback" - Can you reveal where you bought the display clear caseback?
You did mention in your description : "I am collaborating with another manufacturer and will try to make these at $50, so stay tuned"...
Great review. Beautiful case flanks. I have reviewed my Seiko Lord Marvel and was wondering if your aftermarket rear clear caseback will thread onto my LM caseback?
Thanks for the kind words and I can't say if it will fit. I know it fits Grand Seikos with the same 45 movement, but don't know about lord marvel
Really great information.
I don't even understand why no one in the watch parts industry, hasn't smell the need for KS or GS caseback yet, or even the need for 16mm KS signed buckles. The original 15mm KS buckle is not only expensive, it's also 15mm large, which isn't large enough for today's 18/16mm strap. I'm sure the KS patent is free, and anyone can copy the old KS buckle. Even the newest King Seiko doesn't have any KS marking. And for the records, Yokobies, for those who know him, doesn't have an case back which would fit KS outer thread diameter.
Hey there, I have a 45-8010 time piece and would like to know where did you get your transparent case back made. It looks lovely and I would like to get my hands on one too!
Outstanding!
Is that your next give away????
Haha sorry but this one is here to stay
Excellent video
Thanks 😊
Super informative video
Where did you get the custom case back?
I had a KS before I got from Ebay but it felt cheap and the crown had issues... it could have been fake and some of the parts felt added like the crown and the medallion.
Great review! What's the best place to score one of these.?
Yahoo auctions Japan thru Zenmarket. There is a link in the description. Once you get there search "King Seiko 45" or 4502 if you want a date version
@@WatchGeek thanks you sir!
I didn't know the story behind cal.45. My 6156 and 5470-8000 have 10 beats per sec too.
What's the difference between 4502 7000 and 4502 7001?
Hi, where did you find the transparent caseback? Just bought one of these and would love to grab one.
is it has a different size with GS 4522-8000? I consider to put this king seiko into my collection
Do you know the reference of the closest automatic version that retains the sharp case lugs and the thick crown?
fantastic history thank you
Aren't these not serviceable due to their age now? Parts can't be found anymore unless you have a donor model? Kind of puts a damper on them considering that.
If serviced regularly, the parts will not wear out. Movement can last 100 years. Its Grand seikos philosophy even today. GS movements tend to be a tad thicker than their swiss counterparts because the parts are overbuilt!
Accuracy -+2sec a day for a sub 1000.00 watch WOW
F A N T A S T I C ! ! ! 💯👍😀
when I saw the thumbnail, I thought it was Watchfinder lol
Their production quality is what I strive to achieve, I see them as the PERFECT watch channel 😁
1:07 why is the date change is caused by a moving hour hand or am I seeing it wrong?
my vintage supplier show me this one at price of $760
Any updates regarding the caseback?
Sadly for now, it's no go
Watch Geek man that’s a bummer but thank you for trying!! Really appreciate you doing all this :) Seems like i need to source one from yahoo auctions now :D
Can you please share where you made/ordered the back show case as that movement really deserves to be exposed. Thanks.
Thanks for the video ! I just bought a 4502 Chronometer, Officially Certified, from Yahoo Japan, in MINT condition ! Do you know of a good place to have it serviced ? Thanks
I get all my watches serviced at a local watchmaker
Nice video
Love this watch and your review, the video is so crisp! Just wondering if you could tell me any details on how you went about getting a custom case back made?
I got it ok Yahoo auctions Japan, they pop up from time to time , but are quite expensive
@@WatchGeek hi, i'm also interesting for the caseback, how to contact the seller ?
What do you think about King Seiko Vanac Special 5246-5020 this is my watch
The 52 series is an amazing movement. It was so great in fact that Seiko resurected it in the 90's when they went back into mechanical watches naming it 4S.
I actually own a Laurel 4S28 that is a resurected 52. Yours has that faceted Crystal if I'm not mistaken ?
I have a 5246 6030. Like the funky design, especially the faceted glass. Your design looks better. I also have a 5216 LM special. Also 4 hz hi beat and with faceted glass. This has a nicer pattern dial. It cost less than half of the ks.
I also have a 5246 6000. This is a ks special with officially certified chronometer printed on the dial and has monoblock case.
That one is very nice
@@WatchGeek The 4522 7000 (manual) grammar design is most unique. The GS 6146 8000 (auto)with bridged lugs is also nicer than the KS4502 7001 imo. I also have a LM Special 5216 8020(auto)which has exactly the same case as the GS. This one is also hi-beat, but, of a lower caliber, though. For 200 dollars, it's a steal, just for the look alone.
I prefer stick hands by far, did they make any with those?
There were Chronometer and Special versions that jad very thin stick hands to accentuate the precision and accuracy of the movements
My 45KS got back from service yesterday and it offers less than +1 second/day
How much was a service ?
@@shanewarburton4064 I live in an quite expensive country, and I sent it to an authorized workshop via an authorized dealer, full service and change of crown, and pressure test. This made it a bit expensive, 680 dollars.
I surely think it hasn't be that mutch.
@@eljestilbenefattore9400 thanks buddy enjoy your watch.
Yo, is the clear case back available. And can it fit the seiko lord marvel
Thinking of getting the gold cap version - thoughts?
Beautiful watches, i prefer steel, but gold cap is great too
Hii, may i ask is this one easy to service? And finding parts for it?
Where can I get one of those casebacks?
Yahoo auctions Japan
Where can you get these? Can’t seem to find them anywhere?