I can’t applaud enough your work ethic and the amount of time that must’ve gone in to this video. Possibly one of the most comprehensible, and in depth video reviews I’ve ever watched. Bravo!
Really enjoy the work you do, Curtis! I just upgraded from a Tascam 70D to the F8n Pro and your videos about the F8n and now the Pro have been an amazing resource and just wanted to say thank you for the work you do!
Hi Curtis and thanks for the review. Of course I think you know that there will be preamplifiers prior to the A to D converters even though their gain is not user-adjusted on a front-panel knob. I think you also know that with the dual converters required for the high-dynamic range 32-bit float operation, each of the two converters used for the two ranges will have different gains. For these noise numbers you gave, it will be just the higher gain preamp that we would be interested in. Trying to do the math regarding the equivalent input noise numbers based on the table you added here at about 00:14:30. You are measuring unweighted of course. Zoom claim an EIN of 127dBu but that will be weighted. A rule of thumb for a broadband audio preamp would be that 127dBu A-weighted (as quoted by Zoom) would equate to a couple of decibels less, 125dBu, unweighted. The gain numbers of 55 and 75 in your table are obvious fiction. These may correspond to something but certainly not to the analog preamp gain. In my experience, maximum gain for ordinary sound preamplifiers very, very often comes out at 58dB, sometimes a tiny bit less at about 57dB but rarely much more. Values are generally a fraction of a decibel over or under these figures because gain is not usually a calibrated value. I note that you are quoting hundredths of a decibel. Really, I doubt that this precision is ever useful, relevant or accurate but that's just my opinion. Applying this standard 58dB gain value to your measured terminated noise figures then gives us about 124.5dBu of EIN. Well, for a quoted 127dB weighted value, this 124.5dBu figure is pretty much spot on what we would expect. I would suggest then that the actual preamp gains here are indeed 58dB give or take 1dB, and that the EIN does work out at around 127dB weighted, 125dB unweighted (again give or take a decibel). That's only 6dBu off the theoretical limit (131 unweighted), and only one or two dB below the very best real preamps (-128dBu to -129dBu), making it a handsome performance. This is all conjecture based on the 58dB guess but it's looking to be a good guess. Would I care if another unit had one more or one less dBu of EIN? Nope, these are fine numbers. I hope that helps. Once again, thank you very much for the review Curtis. Very interesting.
Hey Curtis! Thanks for all of your videos, you truly have been one of the most helpful and insightful resources. Ive learned so much from your content.
USB Mini: This interface is ANCIENT. It's a limiting choice. It was replaced as a standard because the Mini cable was more likely to fall out than a Micro. And both Mini and Micro ports (not cables) break more than USB C ports. Having any USB 3.0 interface would have been good, but USB C could have allowed PD power, 3.0 data for more expansion with future firmware and devices and so on. A USB C port could easily act as a replacement for the proprietary port as well. If the goal was a USB cable that stays securely without breaking and could not enclose the plug, they should have used the big original USB B, which is old but still has a use, or the similar USB B 3.0. Both of these sit far more securely and the space would have been worth it. It's a little thing, but it's odd. When I see it now, I usually assume the hardware is old. The Mini port was already dated when the original F8 was released and it seems like they decided they didn't want to spend to change any of that part of the old F8 hardware.
@@Bioluminous-CAS On a product of this price, in a world where $25 products can still get USB-C 3.0 ports, avoiding a 3.0 chip with power delivery because of a shortage seems unlikely. They could even just use a USB-C port on the USB 2.0 chip. Given the number of expensive and fancy chips in this $1000, that's probably not the issue. I assume it's about not wanting to pay the costs for either designing and manufacturing a new case (maybe not wanting to toss old cases) or to design/replace existing parts. The case doesn't appear to have changed, and the device is made up of a number of smaller boards and a main board with an FPGA so parts can be swapped out in a new build without upgrading all of it. The costs of making the changes are almost certainly more than the costs of the USB chips. (And for all I know they already have a USB chip that can do 3.0, I couldn't find a photo of the chip) Despite the cost, given how old Mini B is, and given that they could add more functionality with the port, it's something they should find a way to do.
@@kyleolson8977 I read an article by focusrite a while back and why they still use usb 2 tech in their interfaces and they said it’s basically about money. They had to pay more to use usb 3 tech. I forget if it had more to do with licensing fees or the actual hardware itself.
Surprised there isn't a detailed video comparing the SD MixPre-10ii vs Zoom F8n Pro and maybe even a used SD 633. Heck not even a descent review on the SD MixPre-10ii within the past year on TH-cam :-/ Anyway thanks again for another great, informative, and well produced video for us
@@curtisjudd No I didn't mean it in that way Curtis, I just meant on youtube in general. You're my favorite to watch for a reason! Keep up the great work and if anything that was just me talking out loud throwing another video idea out there is all
Love the 32bit---RAW analogy! I almost never record 32bit on MixPre 10ii, since like you I mostly do corporate dialogue. Great review Curtis as always!
Great video, Curtis. I’ve been really enjoying my F8n Pro. Some nice upgrades from the original F8. Did some interesting tests recently that you might dig. I was using a Sound Devices MM1 as an external boom mic preamp to take advantage of the analog limiter and also feed the F8 a line level signal. My initial tests seemed like the sound was warmer and more pleasing than the built in preamp so I endured the added weight in my small Orca 28 front pouch. Fast forward over a year and with the new F8n Pro I wanted to make a formal comparison to hopefully lighten the bag. The test: recorded dialogue into the F8nP then brought it into Pro Tools. Added a -20 rms 1khz tone. I then played this back through the speaker to provide a constant sound source and then proceeded to do several recordings with 32bit float and 24bit, with and without limiters using both the internal F8nP preamp and then the MM1. These were all brought back into pro tools with less than 1dB of clip gain to make them comparable across the board. I was amazed that there was no discernible or measurable difference between any of the recordings! Noise levels were less than 1dB different and even zooming into the waveforms showed 99.9% identical waveforms. Conclusion: the F8nP is at least on par with the MM1 for normal preamp performance. Where the MM1 preamp falls in SD’s line up comparatively I do not know. I did not test the sound/effectiveness of the limiters on either as I did not hit them, nor did I provide a loud enough signal to see if there was difference in over driving the preamps. I’ve subsequently removed the MM1 from the bag as it seems of no benefit. My back is happier. :)
Good and well balanced review; more or less covered every angle. Love your emphasis on skills, knowledge and personal use cases. Regards, have fun and continue the good work.
I'm no marketing expert, but I figure Zoom would increase their market share dramatically if they'd simply modernize that goofy USB micro/mini port. Thanks for all the work doing these reviews, Mr Judd.
Hello Curtis, I love your reviews! Thanks for taking the time to help out your community :) I'm in the market for a new recorder and all was going great until you mentioned that you would go with a Sound Devices Mixpre recorder. Now I'm back at square one haha! I listened to your mixpre ii review and zoom review side by side and honestly they both sound about the same. I feel the zoom was a bit more consistent when recovering soft and loud audio compared to the original audio at -45db. Could you give more detail as to why you would choose the mixpre ii over the F8n pro? I want the next recorder I buy to last without having any of the "aww man, it doesn't come with this???" experience. I understand that no one product can check all the boxes, but I would like to purchase a recorder that can check most of the boxes. Also, what are the main benefits of analog limiters when comparing them to digital? Thanks for your help! 🙏
There are so many differences that I cannot address this fully in a TH-cam comment. However, the short version is this: Both the ZOOM F series (the F3 - F8n Pro, specifically) and the Sound Devices MixPre series are amazing recorders and once you learn how to use them, you can make great recordings from either. My PERSONAL preference is for the MixPre, but there are plenty of capable mixers out there who would argue that they prefer the ZOOM F series and I respect that. Digital limiters, as one example, can raise the noise floor of your recordings while analogue limiters do not. Some people hate touch screens (like on the MixPre) and prefer the larger screen on the F8n Pro. The ZOOM recorders are more power efficient and cost less. The MixPre has a better auto mix feature - though is is a paid plugin - and a real-time noise reduction paid plugin. The list goes on and on with pros and cons for each. In the end, you'll just need make a decision that works best for YOU. But because people don't let me get away with not taking a side, If I'm pressed, I'd choose the MixPre. Incidentally, I own the F3, F6, F8n, F8n Pro, MixPre-3 II and MixPre-10 II. They really are all great recorders.
@@curtisjudd Thanks for the very detailed and informative reply! I guess it's like saying Ferrari and Lamborghini are both great cars and you can be fast in either car. It just comes down to which exhaust sound you prefer haha! Oh ok, gotcha. How does Zoom keep the noise floor so low with digital limiters? Or does the F8n Pro, use both analog and digital limiters? Also, I noticed the Sound Devices MixPre 10 II uses 8 analog preamps . Do more preamps equal better audio quality? Like how more cylinders in a car would equal more horse power? Yeah I can see that, specially when touch screens are small like that, but one could always just use a stylus pen. I like that the zoom offers a lot for it's price. I think the Sound Devices MixPre 10 II used to run $1400? I hope the price comes back down in the future. Haha very true, we could go back and forth on pros and cons for an eternity. Curtis, you always gotta pick a side. Not every company wins a trophy lol!! Just kidding 😂 Thanks again for your input and advice. This has helped me a lot!
Defiantly agree with you about the 32-Bit float, but I find my self recording moving marching bands a lot. It is necessary when I'm without a full team. Such a massive moving sound. Thanks, just the video I needed by the TH-camr we all need.
Another great review as always. Frustrating that Zoom still refuses to develop an Android app for their other recent/parallel product offerings, such as the F6.
Does anyone knows why I cant hear anyhting on my device? Tried with the ntg2 and a Shure SM7B, but even after cranking all the nobs and digital db meter up to the limit does not hits the -12 mark at all :( tried factory reset, phantom power on off.
I too am joining the chants that we demand a Zoom F4n! F4n wish list: Mic/Line level on the inputs (without needing to use a 1/4" male cable). Pro Line Level output for the XLR (and perhaps give us extra outputs? 2x TA3F outputs? Not crucial, but would be nice, I use more than 2x outputs now or then). Bluetooth inside it (for the app). L Mount like the F6 (dual L mount perhaps?), instead of the AA battery sled. (but keep hirose!) Make channels 5 & 6 be 2x TA3F line inputs, instead of the proprietary Zoom connector. Maybe a high bright color screen? Keep everything else exactly the same, same size, same placement of everything, same 2x SD cards, same software/UI inside powering the F4n as the F4, etc! These are all fairly modest wishes (not even wishing for any firwmare updates! Such as a noise reduction option, like the MixPre has), which the F4n could have while still keeping itself priced below the Zoom F8n Pro.
Hey Curtis! I'm quite curious as to how limiters are available in 32-bit Float mode. How does this work? my presumption is that the digital limiting happens on the main stereo mix but not on the ISO channel files? Any clarification would be appreciated.
I appreciate hearing opinion from someone who has really learned the craft. I currently have a zoom f4 and nothing is really wrong with it but the Android app is nice on this also I'm hoping the auto mix is better, probably not though. Also 32 bit float is good to have as an option but you're totally right. It's not something I NEED. The f4 is completely fine and if I upgrade to this the F4 will just be my backup recorder. I like that you're kind of reminding me that I don't have to upgrade.
A bit of a specialist question here, Curtis, but hope you or someone else can help. I have the F8n and F8n pro and want to use them both into Windows/reaper to provide a 16 input interface. I have been able to do that so that bit is okay - however, the two units drift apart so don’t stay sample accurate. Even using continuous internal time code output from one device into external (+ audio sync) in the other, I would have thought this would sync the two devices, a bit like a word clock sync, but apparently not. Is there something I’m doing wrong?
Curtis, on the 2nd row at 17:25, that's probably the F8n pro in 24-bit mode, not 32-bit float mode. The limiter doesn't work in 32-bit float mode (or does it?). In any case, it doesn't have a 24-bit mode limiter row.
Hi Stefan, in the F8n Pro, the limiter actually DOES work in 32-bit float mode, which is interesting. And it also still works in 24 and 16 bit modes as well.
Rewatching again before dropping $1,100, your work is incredible 👏 for reviews that are industry standard This will be paired with our work horses 🐎 we have a F8N now just $100 difference between pro and previous model Canon C70s, R5 Sony FX30, Sony A7 IV and A7S III
So I'm using the pro and I have a question. I created a folder where I want all the sound to go to that folder but I cannot find a way to figure out on how to put the sound in that specific folder. And how can I playback a sound that I recorded. Someone please give me directions and help me.
20:34, well I can see a great use for a 32bit float upgrade from my F8n, I'm a boom operator booming out of a bag, and some takes, perhaps wide shots, i have my arms up above my head, and when actors gets louder it is not possible for me to go down and adjust the gain (because i would probably drop my boom at the same time). I have always used safety tracks for this before, but would be really nice to have 32bit float option for these takes. Too bad the F8n Pro is not in stock anywhere! Edit: It would be cool to hear a recovery of a "off axis" actor talking (for example with a MKH50). Lets say there are 2 actors but only one is in the picture, and the other actor is standing off screen behind the camera. If its not possible for me to swing the boom between them during the takes, the audio gets super off axis, how would that sound if recovered? Any additional noise floor on that? (i always move the lav mics out of the clothes from the actor off screen in these circumstances, but would be nice to know what happens with the audio file of the boom)
If you boost the levels in post for the off-axis line, you'll pick up a fair bit more ambient noise simply because the microphone is so much farther away.
32bit only helps in three situations. First, if you set the gain 30 or 40dB lower than what would provide good digital audio with a great amount of headroom, so you get to hear the Ad converter quantization noise, especially when raised by a digital limiter. Second, if you set the gain 20 dB higher than what would achieve a good recording, so you clip the AD converter even though reducing the gain 20 or even 30dB would not reduce sound quality at all, since the thermal noise of the mic is many dBs above the quantization noise. Third, if you actually need to capture the entire dynamic range of a microphone. In 24bit recorders, the first situation never really happened because nobody records at -50dB, even if the sounds are low level. The second situation happened is some cases when recording too hot due to unpredictable situations, so recorders added a feature to send the signal to another track at lower gain for protection. The third situation was not something anyone actually asked for. 32bit will not reduce the noise floor of the mic, it will not improve the mic maximum SPL and it will not change the reality of primary source to secondary source and ambient sound, so it will not fix mic placement errors.
If you have Universal Audio interface you could process latency free great noise/room sound reduction with the C-Suite CEDAR plug-in. I just can’t understand how Zoom engineers chose an outdated mini USB interface. As always your review was excellent.
Hi Curtis! Thanks for the great review and I got the course as well! I'm all set with my ATEM HD8 and ZOOM F8N Pro but I'd really like to have the ZOOM to start recording along with the ATEM. The "Timecode Auto Rec" triggers record the moment I plug the ATEM timecode out to the ZOOM so I have to manually stop/start record each audio take. Do you know any solution to get them to record together? 🙏
I’m afraid I do not know of a way. I believe the ATEM is always sending timecode via its output, whether recording or not. So BMD would need to add a record timecode mode to the HD8.
Hi Curtis, thanks for the great review. I have been getting more and more into audio over the last year and have found your content an amazing help. I recently got a great deal on a used F8n and a shotgun mic for doing some field recordings, but by the time I have bought a bag, blimp & battery I will be over the £1000 mark. What I have to do now is make good use of what I have, because I'm a lucky man. Maybe, if I paid out £1k for this F8n Pro I would moan about no USB C but it's all relative, my F8n will (without a lottery win) last me for the rest of my life and I'm confident it can, (I still shoot analogue 35mm film 🙂) but I do wonder how quickly it will be obsolete in technology terms compared to my usability terms? Thanks again, you and your family have been a great help and it's much appreciated.
People are still using the Sound Devices 788T on big budget productions. You will surely outgrow your used Zoom F8n purchase before it ever becomes "obsolete"! (and you an go a LONG WAY with the F8n before you outgrow it, you could go a few years deep into a professional Sound Mixing career before you'd genuinely *need* to "upgrade" from it. It is very likely with your non-sound career plans that you will NEVER "outgrow" the F8n)
Do you know of any equipment that can add the audio of a mic to an HDMI signal/cable? Sorry to be off topic, it's just my capture card has a lot of self noise if I use its mic input - I think I could get past that by somehow feeding the mic audio through the HDMI along with what I'm capturing. Curious if it's even possible or such tech exists.
On the original Zoom F8, the limiters would raise the noise floor, because it worked by doing digital amplification to give its digital limiter headroom. Is this also the case on the F8n Pro when it is in 24 bit mode? Or does it somehow leverage its 32 bit float capability to take input in float, then digitally limit, and then save as 24 bit, meaning no raised noise floor?
Hi, Since you are the pro out here, maybe you migfht be able to help me once again with the issue i have with my zoom f8n pro.. I have two Rode mics TF-5 that i use to recored performances. one of them started to have a kind of low constant buzz. i first thought that it was defect, but after Rode sent me a new pair, it was just the same. i then figured out that when the zoom is plugged to the DC power, this buzz is going into the mic, but when i use a V-lock battery, i can't hear the buzz. this tells me it should be some kind of electricity issue passing through the zoom and affecting the mic. i've serche around but can't find any help to fix this issue. the funny think is that one of my mic never does it while the other one always does it and even the new replacing mics Rode has sent me.. i wonder if there's anything to do with the zoom so that the electricity doesn't affect the mics. or if there's a divice that could somehow clean the electricity so it doesn't corupt the signal.. i hipe you can help me and i look forweard reading your reply. Always appreciate your help.. thank you.
Hey Curtis Good day! I’m looking at upgrading from MixPre-3 (mark i) to F8n Pro due to cost to input ratio. One thing I love about the mix-pre is the audio interface through usb-c and I notice the f8n has an older style usb port. Does the f8n pro appear to equal the mixpre ii series as an audio interface? are there any drawbacks of this older usb port on the f8n pro?
Hey AJ, the connector doesn’t seem to affect the performance of the recorder. But the F8 series in general do require you to manually go to audio interface mode every time you start it up vs. the MixPre which just connects automatically.
great review! if I choose line on the f8n pro (for a very hot mic input) would I be able to choose 48v for that input as well? basically, using line as a pad for a phantom mic?
OK... But how the gain is implemented in 24-bit mode? Is it still digital? That would have to result in big increase in noise. That really make no sense to me.
Thanks for the review. Is it possible to hear the sound through the phone's headphones when the iPhone is connected via Bluetooth? I tried this but I can only perform the checks.
Very interesting. In this case when the clipped audio was restored, to my ears it still didn't sound nearly as good as the sample recorded at lower level. So although the 32 bit can get you out of trouble, it's not a feature I would ever want to use. In fact I'd much prefer the safety track function of the two predecessors. (By the way, I think it's track 1 and 5 rather than 1 and 4: 1-5, 2-6, 3-7, 4-8). Let me ask, do I understand it correctly that the Android app only works with the F8n Pro and not with the F8n and F8? If so, do you have any info on why?
I have a time code synchronizer - Tentacle E. But I only have a 3.5 jack input for it. What time code input does the Zoom F8N have? Will I have to buy an additional cable?
@@human_support Apologies, I meant BNC connectors, not SDI. (incidentally SDI cables also use BNC connectors.) Try this: shop.tentaclesync.com/product/tentacle-to-90-bnc/
What cable to use for the battery when going mobile and what to get to charge the battery. If you have an affiliate link so I can order it. Thanks Curtis
@@curtisjudd I am going to test this soon with a different hopefully more robust solution. I'll make a video and link it here. I feel for independent production it could be game changing if I am successful.
@@curtisjudd I will test that for sure. However my current assumption is that it should remain constant. The current latency should be well into the subframe area otherwise these transmitters would not work anyway for audio recording. I'll be testing with a Zoom F6, a old Canon 7D and a Z-CAM E2-S6. I will also test by pushing the audio back into another input and comparing the audio in Resolve. The solution also allows for up to 100 receivers and it sends stereo audio and claims 7ms latency. We shall see. I feel like worst case it can be a universal adjustment in post.
Any guess as to when we’ll see 32 bit float in cameras? Seems like resolution wars are maxed out and dynamic range is getting closer by the month. Audio could be a point of differentiation.
@@luciddreampictures No, the USB spec for mini ports cannot support enough power. If they had gone with USB-C, then it would have been possible. I have no idea why they didn't. But as a field recorder, a locking Hirose connector is a much better option for battery distribution systems or even single 98Wh batteries like are typically used for sound bags.
Can I use this like a portable studio, eg: record 2 tracks then rewind jam along and record to the leftover tracks? Or is it one take only? Now there’s an app for the sound device recorders that does it there just a bit out of my price range!
@@curtisjudd thank you for confirming that 👍🏼 i have an audio interface so was just looking for something portable. There is a musicians plug in for the mix pre ii series but i guess zoom dont want to crossover with their other products. Big heavy usb battery pack it is then!!!
Thanks Curtis! I got the Zoom F4 looking at your review, years ago, and I haven't felt the need to upgrade at all, ever since. I use the Zoom proprietary attachment port occasionally with a Zoom EXH-6, allowing me 2 extra tracks when needed (The native 4 are usually enough for my needs). The F8N pro seems amazing, but perhaps overkill for most of us Zoom users (as compared to getting a used Zoom F8/F8N). Glad they gave the F-8 line a 32 bit float upgrade though. I'm hoping they show the same courtesy to the F4 series at some point :)
Thank you for your videos, Curtis. They helped me in what to look for when researching/evaluating gears before purchasing. I film sports mostly. Would you know if ZOOM F8n Pro supports time code frame rates 50fps and 60fps?
This just in: Curtis says the Zoom F8N Pro is as good as a boat anchor and praises Sound Devices for their wonderful recorders. haha, just kidding. This was a very good review. I thank you on behalf of all of us who watch your detailed gear review videos. Keep up the good work.
Not sure if you have a “suggestion box” for future videos, but I’d be really curious to see some tests done for this particular scenario: I’ve been doing some commercial gigs lately with interviews in rooms with poor acoustics (hard walls and often small rooms) and broadband noise (HVAC, etc). If I have the time I’ve tried A/B-ing my DPA 4017B vs my 4018B. Science would say a shotgun in this situation could present some problems with comb filtering, but potential help with the noise. The hyper cardioid should help with acoustics but may capture more noise. What I find interesting is the difference in distance to the subject these mics need. The shotgun capsule is several inches further away to keep the Interference tube out of frame. The past 2 gigs I’ve opted for the shotgun to help with noise but have been really wondering if the signal to noise ratio would be that much better with the hypercardioid since it can get significantly closer in the first place. A side by side comparison test could be a really fascinating look into what mic works best and if that follows the conventions we all know or not. Just some thoughts. Thanks!
will you compare 2,4ghz tiny wiriless mic such like deity pocket wireless,godox movelink m2,saramonic b500 or b900,DJI mic etc ? and how to set these tiny mic to zoom F8 series or SD or tascam X8 ? thank you...
The Android app works with f8n. Ios13 bluetooth setting in the zoom system menu. Firmware 2.4 installed. Bluetooth addon installed. Start pairing on Zoom.
Hey there! I have a question so i recently recorded for a production where i had a boom and two lav mics. But upon import the 3 channels were grouped into one track? I couldn’t seem to find a setting where the recorder keeps the channels separate.. essentially Mono. Any suggestions or am i missing something?
Hi Curtis, many thanks for the review. Nevertheless I would have enjoyed, if you had tested the Bluetooth functionality. Does the F8n Pro communicate with Atomos Ninja V AtomX sync module? The MicPre‘s do not and the hdmi tc input is sadly useless. Hence, to create a modern tc workflow, the MixPre‘s are no option. But my F8 will not pair and maybe the Pro will be finally Pro? Maybe you have an answer.
Just a curious question - the self-noise test with the resistor across the input, what sort of R is it? Hopefully a low-noise one, but if not, I wonder if the noise could be even lower?
Thanks for a very good video. Do the recording level dials on the front face of the F8n Pro feel a bit loose or have they got a good firm high quality feel.
Excellent review as always. So the use I would have with this is doing interviews with multiple people sitting close to each other. I just finished a documentary and the automix feature sounds like it would have worked wonders for me rather than all the trial and errors I was doing with mic bleed and ultimately just isolating each mic. It sounds like it would have given me a good starting point and then do whatever post-processing was necessary. This doesn't actually create a mix, but keeps each track separate, right? Also, be a solo producer, having one less thing to worry about with 32-bit would be nice. I get it's not something you can just turn it on and expect great audio, but at least I could concentrated on other things. Especially since I'm also on camera doing the interviewing.
The auto mix is recorded to the mix track but you can still record isolated channels that are not affected by auto mix so you can do the mix manually in post if you prefer.
I can’t applaud enough your work ethic and the amount of time that must’ve gone in to this video. Possibly one of the most comprehensible, and in depth video reviews I’ve ever watched. Bravo!
Thanks!
Really enjoy the work you do, Curtis! I just upgraded from a Tascam 70D to the F8n Pro and your videos about the F8n and now the Pro have been an amazing resource and just wanted to say thank you for the work you do!
Thanks Kevin and happy recording!
Hi Kevin,
Looking to make the same move, how much of a difference are you finding? Worth the jump?
Wait... 21:59 No angels singing? Darn it! :) As always, great video sir!
Hahaha! Thanks Kevin!
Hi Curtis and thanks for the review. Of course I think you know that there will be preamplifiers prior to the A to D converters even though their gain is not user-adjusted on a front-panel knob. I think you also know that with the dual converters required for the high-dynamic range 32-bit float operation, each of the two converters used for the two ranges will have different gains. For these noise numbers you gave, it will be just the higher gain preamp that we would be interested in.
Trying to do the math regarding the equivalent input noise numbers based on the table you added here at about 00:14:30. You are measuring unweighted of course. Zoom claim an EIN of 127dBu but that will be weighted. A rule of thumb for a broadband audio preamp would be that 127dBu A-weighted (as quoted by Zoom) would equate to a couple of decibels less, 125dBu, unweighted. The gain numbers of 55 and 75 in your table are obvious fiction. These may correspond to something but certainly not to the analog preamp gain. In my experience, maximum gain for ordinary sound preamplifiers very, very often comes out at 58dB, sometimes a tiny bit less at about 57dB but rarely much more. Values are generally a fraction of a decibel over or under these figures because gain is not usually a calibrated value. I note that you are quoting hundredths of a decibel. Really, I doubt that this precision is ever useful, relevant or accurate but that's just my opinion.
Applying this standard 58dB gain value to your measured terminated noise figures then gives us about 124.5dBu of EIN. Well, for a quoted 127dB weighted value, this 124.5dBu figure is pretty much spot on what we would expect. I would suggest then that the actual preamp gains here are indeed 58dB give or take 1dB, and that the EIN does work out at around 127dB weighted, 125dB unweighted (again give or take a decibel). That's only 6dBu off the theoretical limit (131 unweighted), and only one or two dB below the very best real preamps (-128dBu to -129dBu), making it a handsome performance. This is all conjecture based on the 58dB guess but it's looking to be a good guess. Would I care if another unit had one more or one less dBu of EIN? Nope, these are fine numbers.
I hope that helps. Once again, thank you very much for the review Curtis. Very interesting.
Thanks for the insights.
Hey Curtis! Thanks for all of your videos, you truly have been one of the most helpful and insightful resources. Ive learned so much from your content.
Thanks Henry!
Good content as always.
Davinci Resolve supports 32-bit float as well. I think that software deserves mentioning among "the main editing apps"
davinci has upped the game and is probably the fasted growing one. more an more people leave fcpx and especially adobes crash show :D i certainly did
@@philippscheithauer Adobe is a sinking ship
Yes, and DaVinci Resolve. I wish it wouldn’t crash so much on my Mac.
@@curtisjudd Are you running the beta version of Resolve? It never crashes on my M1 Macbook.
@@arnoldsnodgrass2953 No, the general release on an Intel Mac Pro.
What a hero to have a summary in the beginning!
👍
I've been looking forward to this review! Thank you for also putting your summary up front, I think it makes for much clearer communication.
You are most welcome!
Awesome review, Curtis! I bought the F8n Pro. As a one man band, the 32-bit float and dual SD card recording give me peace of mind.
👍 Happy recording!
Sold my H8 and today I received the H8n Pro. Now it's time to watch your review to learn this tool. Thanks!
Happy recording!
USB Mini: This interface is ANCIENT. It's a limiting choice. It was replaced as a standard because the Mini cable was more likely to fall out than a Micro. And both Mini and Micro ports (not cables) break more than USB C ports.
Having any USB 3.0 interface would have been good, but USB C could have allowed PD power, 3.0 data for more expansion with future firmware and devices and so on. A USB C port could easily act as a replacement for the proprietary port as well.
If the goal was a USB cable that stays securely without breaking and could not enclose the plug, they should have used the big original USB B, which is old but still has a use, or the similar USB B 3.0. Both of these sit far more securely and the space would have been worth it.
It's a little thing, but it's odd. When I see it now, I usually assume the hardware is old. The Mini port was already dated when the original F8 was released and it seems like they decided they didn't want to spend to change any of that part of the old F8 hardware.
@@Bioluminous-CAS Definitely not relevant. Very much agree that it's just laziness/bean counters that resulted in the micro-USB connection.
@@Bioluminous-CAS On a product of this price, in a world where $25 products can still get USB-C 3.0 ports, avoiding a 3.0 chip with power delivery because of a shortage seems unlikely.
They could even just use a USB-C port on the USB 2.0 chip. Given the number of expensive and fancy chips in this $1000, that's probably not the issue.
I assume it's about not wanting to pay the costs for either designing and manufacturing a new case (maybe not wanting to toss old cases) or to design/replace existing parts.
The case doesn't appear to have changed, and the device is made up of a number of smaller boards and a main board with an FPGA so parts can be swapped out in a new build without upgrading all of it. The costs of making the changes are almost certainly more than the costs of the USB chips. (And for all I know they already have a USB chip that can do 3.0, I couldn't find a photo of the chip)
Despite the cost, given how old Mini B is, and given that they could add more functionality with the port, it's something they should find a way to do.
Yes, weird choice.
@@kyleolson8977 I read an article by focusrite a while back and why they still use usb 2 tech in their interfaces and they said it’s basically about money. They had to pay more to use usb 3 tech. I forget if it had more to do with licensing fees or the actual hardware itself.
Doesn't the smaller F3 use USB-C and allow us to take advantage of these benefits like PD power?
The best channel ever in TH-cam thank you so much
Thanks.
So many answers to questions I've been asking myself! You just got a new subscriber. 🙏🏾
Glad it was helpful. Happy recording!
Surprised there isn't a detailed video comparing the SD MixPre-10ii vs Zoom F8n Pro and maybe even a used SD 633.
Heck not even a descent review on the SD MixPre-10ii within the past year on TH-cam :-/
Anyway thanks again for another great, informative, and well produced video for us
Sorry, I cover as much as I can given the time I have. 🙏
@@curtisjudd No I didn't mean it in that way Curtis, I just meant on youtube in general. You're my favorite to watch for a reason! Keep up the great work and if anything that was just me talking out loud throwing another video idea out there is all
@@tvm2209 👍
Love the 32bit---RAW analogy! I almost never record 32bit on MixPre 10ii, since like you I mostly do corporate dialogue. Great review Curtis as always!
Thanks DIT Media!
Curtis, please continue doing of what you're doing! You're simply awesome!
Thanks, Alex. 🙏
Great video, Curtis. I’ve been really enjoying my F8n Pro. Some nice upgrades from the original F8.
Did some interesting tests recently that you might dig. I was using a Sound Devices MM1 as an external boom mic preamp to take advantage of the analog limiter and also feed the F8 a line level signal. My initial tests seemed like the sound was warmer and more pleasing than the built in preamp so I endured the added weight in my small Orca 28 front pouch. Fast forward over a year and with the new F8n Pro I wanted to make a formal comparison to hopefully lighten the bag.
The test: recorded dialogue into the F8nP then brought it into Pro Tools. Added a -20 rms 1khz tone. I then played this back through the speaker to provide a constant sound source and then proceeded to do several recordings with 32bit float and 24bit, with and without limiters using both the internal F8nP preamp and then the MM1. These were all brought back into pro tools with less than 1dB of clip gain to make them comparable across the board.
I was amazed that there was no discernible or measurable difference between any of the recordings! Noise levels were less than 1dB different and even zooming into the waveforms showed 99.9% identical waveforms.
Conclusion: the F8nP is at least on par with the MM1 for normal preamp performance. Where the MM1 preamp falls in SD’s line up comparatively I do not know. I did not test the sound/effectiveness of the limiters on either as I did not hit them, nor did I provide a loud enough signal to see if there was difference in over driving the preamps.
I’ve subsequently removed the MM1 from the bag as it seems of no benefit. My back is happier. :)
Nice work and thanks for sharing! Yes, keeping the bag light is a good strategy!
i notice that when the phantom power is on the sound change why
Some of the best content on TH-cam. Thanks Curtis!
Thanks PopK.
Supply chain issues for Mixpre 6 + this recorder coming out, may have just made this recorder win my purchase. Thank you for the Preamp analysis!
You're welcome and happy recording!
Curtis, that earthworks mic sounds amazing with your voice, amazing review as always, thank you!!!
Thanks Michael.
Great as always. Particularly good commentary on usefulness/necessity of 32-bit float dual analog to digital feature.
Thanks Casey!
your channel is pure gold! thanks for the great video!
Thanks!
Good and well balanced review; more or less covered every angle.
Love your emphasis on skills, knowledge and personal use cases.
Regards, have fun and continue the good work.
Thanks KFH DK.
I'm no marketing expert, but I figure Zoom would increase their market share dramatically if they'd simply modernize that goofy USB micro/mini port.
Thanks for all the work doing these reviews, Mr Judd.
👍
Hello Curtis, I love your reviews! Thanks for taking the time to help out your community :) I'm in the market for a new recorder and all was going great until you mentioned that you would go with a Sound Devices Mixpre recorder. Now I'm back at square one haha! I listened to your mixpre ii review and zoom review side by side and honestly they both sound about the same. I feel the zoom was a bit more consistent when recovering soft and loud audio compared to the original audio at -45db. Could you give more detail as to why you would choose the mixpre ii over the F8n pro? I want the next recorder I buy to last without having any of the "aww man, it doesn't come with this???" experience. I understand that no one product can check all the boxes, but I would like to purchase a recorder that can check most of the boxes. Also, what are the main benefits of analog limiters when comparing them to digital? Thanks for your help! 🙏
There are so many differences that I cannot address this fully in a TH-cam comment. However, the short version is this: Both the ZOOM F series (the F3 - F8n Pro, specifically) and the Sound Devices MixPre series are amazing recorders and once you learn how to use them, you can make great recordings from either. My PERSONAL preference is for the MixPre, but there are plenty of capable mixers out there who would argue that they prefer the ZOOM F series and I respect that. Digital limiters, as one example, can raise the noise floor of your recordings while analogue limiters do not. Some people hate touch screens (like on the MixPre) and prefer the larger screen on the F8n Pro. The ZOOM recorders are more power efficient and cost less. The MixPre has a better auto mix feature - though is is a paid plugin - and a real-time noise reduction paid plugin. The list goes on and on with pros and cons for each. In the end, you'll just need make a decision that works best for YOU. But because people don't let me get away with not taking a side, If I'm pressed, I'd choose the MixPre. Incidentally, I own the F3, F6, F8n, F8n Pro, MixPre-3 II and MixPre-10 II. They really are all great recorders.
@@curtisjudd Thanks for the very detailed and informative reply! I guess it's like saying Ferrari and Lamborghini are both great cars and you can be fast in either car. It just comes down to which exhaust sound you prefer haha! Oh ok, gotcha. How does Zoom keep the noise floor so low with digital limiters? Or does the F8n Pro, use both analog and digital limiters? Also, I noticed the Sound Devices MixPre 10 II uses 8 analog preamps . Do more preamps equal better audio quality? Like how more cylinders in a car would equal more horse power? Yeah I can see that, specially when touch screens are small like that, but one could always just use a stylus pen. I like that the zoom offers a lot for it's price. I think the Sound Devices MixPre 10 II used to run $1400? I hope the price comes back down in the future. Haha very true, we could go back and forth on pros and cons for an eternity. Curtis, you always gotta pick a side. Not every company wins a trophy lol!! Just kidding 😂 Thanks again for your input and advice. This has helped me a lot!
Looks pretty cool
👍
Curtis thanks again for this review and answers all my questions
👍
Defiantly agree with you about the 32-Bit float, but I find my self recording moving marching bands a lot. It is necessary when I'm without a full team. Such a massive moving sound. Thanks, just the video I needed by the TH-camr we all need.
👍
Excellent indepth review of this new Zoom F8n Pro.
🙏
Another great review as always. Frustrating that Zoom still refuses to develop an Android app for their other recent/parallel product offerings, such as the F6.
Thanks FocusPulling.
Does anyone knows why I cant hear anyhting on my device? Tried with the ntg2 and a Shure SM7B, but even after cranking all the nobs and digital db meter up to the limit does not hits the -12 mark at all :( tried factory reset, phantom power on off.
What was the trim setting at for that input?
Great review. Thanks for putting out such valuable content.
On another note: dear Zoom, I just want an updated F4. Is that too much to ask?
Thanks Daniel. And I agree, an F4 with a better screen would be really nice.
I too am joining the chants that we demand a Zoom F4n!
F4n wish list:
Mic/Line level on the inputs (without needing to use a 1/4" male cable).
Pro Line Level output for the XLR (and perhaps give us extra outputs? 2x TA3F outputs? Not crucial, but would be nice, I use more than 2x outputs now or then).
Bluetooth inside it (for the app).
L Mount like the F6 (dual L mount perhaps?), instead of the AA battery sled. (but keep hirose!)
Make channels 5 & 6 be 2x TA3F line inputs, instead of the proprietary Zoom connector.
Maybe a high bright color screen?
Keep everything else exactly the same, same size, same placement of everything, same 2x SD cards, same software/UI inside powering the F4n as the F4, etc!
These are all fairly modest wishes (not even wishing for any firwmare updates! Such as a noise reduction option, like the MixPre has), which the F4n could have while still keeping itself priced below the Zoom F8n Pro.
Great review! another difference with MixPre 10 is the double SD card record in F8n Pro!
Indeed 👍
Hey Curtis! I'm quite curious as to how limiters are available in 32-bit Float mode. How does this work? my presumption is that the digital limiting happens on the main stereo mix but not on the ISO channel files? Any clarification would be appreciated.
I appreciate hearing opinion from someone who has really learned the craft. I currently have a zoom f4 and nothing is really wrong with it but the Android app is nice on this also I'm hoping the auto mix is better, probably not though. Also 32 bit float is good to have as an option but you're totally right. It's not something I NEED. The f4 is completely fine and if I upgrade to this the F4 will just be my backup recorder. I like that you're kind of reminding me that I don't have to upgrade.
No need to upgrade. 😀
A bit of a specialist question here, Curtis, but hope you or someone else can help.
I have the F8n and F8n pro and want to use them both into Windows/reaper to provide a 16 input interface. I have been able to do that so that bit is okay - however, the two units drift apart so don’t stay sample accurate. Even using continuous internal time code output from one device into external (+ audio sync) in the other, I would have thought this would sync the two devices, a bit like a word clock sync, but apparently not. Is there something I’m doing wrong?
I doubt it. Probably need to contact ZOOM support to confirm what’s possible.
@ thank you - have contacted them. Will report back!
will zoom even have noise reduction plugins?
No idea. I have my doubts.
Extraordinary review. Not only informative but enjoyable.
Thanks Ananda Garden.
Any rumors of release date for a 3rd version of mixPre and new features (dual card slots, iOS app gain control, etc) ?
Nope
great review as always!! Keep it up!
Thanks!
Curtis, on the 2nd row at 17:25, that's probably the F8n pro in 24-bit mode, not 32-bit float mode. The limiter doesn't work in 32-bit float mode (or does it?). In any case, it doesn't have a 24-bit mode limiter row.
Hi Stefan, in the F8n Pro, the limiter actually DOES work in 32-bit float mode, which is interesting. And it also still works in 24 and 16 bit modes as well.
Rewatching again before dropping $1,100, your work is incredible 👏 for reviews that are industry standard
This will be paired with our work horses 🐎 we have a F8N now just $100 difference between pro and previous model
Canon C70s, R5
Sony FX30, Sony A7 IV and A7S III
I think you’ll find the F8n Pro to be a nice addition to your kit 👍
So I'm using the pro and I have a question. I created a folder where I want all the sound to go to that folder but I cannot find a way to figure out on how to put the sound in that specific folder. And how can I playback a sound that I recorded. Someone please give me directions and help me.
20:34, well I can see a great use for a 32bit float upgrade from my F8n, I'm a boom operator booming out of a bag, and some takes, perhaps wide shots, i have my arms up above my head, and when actors gets louder it is not possible for me to go down and adjust the gain (because i would probably drop my boom at the same time). I have always used safety tracks for this before, but would be really nice to have 32bit float option for these takes. Too bad the F8n Pro is not in stock anywhere!
Edit: It would be cool to hear a recovery of a "off axis" actor talking (for example with a MKH50). Lets say there are 2 actors but only one is in the picture, and the other actor is standing off screen behind the camera. If its not possible for me to swing the boom between them during the takes, the audio gets super off axis, how would that sound if recovered? Any additional noise floor on that? (i always move the lav mics out of the clothes from the actor off screen in these circumstances, but would be nice to know what happens with the audio file of the boom)
If you boost the levels in post for the off-axis line, you'll pick up a fair bit more ambient noise simply because the microphone is so much farther away.
32bit only helps in three situations.
First, if you set the gain 30 or 40dB lower than what would provide good digital audio with a great amount of headroom, so you get to hear the Ad converter quantization noise, especially when raised by a digital limiter.
Second, if you set the gain 20 dB higher than what would achieve a good recording, so you clip the AD converter even though reducing the gain 20 or even 30dB would not reduce sound quality at all, since the thermal noise of the mic is many dBs above the quantization noise.
Third, if you actually need to capture the entire dynamic range of a microphone.
In 24bit recorders, the first situation never really happened because nobody records at -50dB, even if the sounds are low level. The second situation happened is some cases when recording too hot due to unpredictable situations, so recorders added a feature to send the signal to another track at lower gain for protection. The third situation was not something anyone actually asked for.
32bit will not reduce the noise floor of the mic, it will not improve the mic maximum SPL and it will not change the reality of primary source to secondary source and ambient sound, so it will not fix mic placement errors.
@@aristotle_4532 thanks for the insights.
In her spoken audio, there's a warble that sounds like digital compression, where is that coming from? The mic, or TH-cam?
Her voice, actually.
Hi everybody.. is it possible to put a Lavalier Mic in the zoom f8 pro ? - thanks for the answer.
Thank You for another professional review
👍
If you have Universal Audio interface you could process latency free great noise/room sound reduction with the C-Suite CEDAR plug-in. I just can’t understand how Zoom engineers chose an outdated mini USB interface. As always your review was excellent.
Thanks Alex. Yes, the Apollos are nice with very little latency.
Good video, as always, Curtis. Time for Sound Devices to sharpen its prices.
Thanks Andrew.
Hopefully without any cuts to features/performance/advancements though
Hi Curtis! Thanks for the great review and I got the course as well!
I'm all set with my ATEM HD8 and ZOOM F8N Pro but I'd really like to have the ZOOM to start recording along with the ATEM.
The "Timecode Auto Rec" triggers record the moment I plug the ATEM timecode out to the ZOOM so I have to manually stop/start record each audio take.
Do you know any solution to get them to record together? 🙏
I’m afraid I do not know of a way. I believe the ATEM is always sending timecode via its output, whether recording or not. So BMD would need to add a record timecode mode to the HD8.
Hi Curtis, thanks for the great review. I have been getting more and more into audio over the last year and have found your content an amazing help. I recently got a great deal on a used F8n and a shotgun mic for doing some field recordings, but by the time I have bought a bag, blimp & battery I will be over the £1000 mark. What I have to do now is make good use of what I have, because I'm a lucky man.
Maybe, if I paid out £1k for this F8n Pro I would moan about no USB C but it's all relative, my F8n will (without a lottery win) last me for the rest of my life and I'm confident it can, (I still shoot analogue 35mm film 🙂) but I do wonder how quickly it will be obsolete in technology terms compared to my usability terms?
Thanks again, you and your family have been a great help and it's much appreciated.
Thanks Andy. Happy recording with your new kit!
People are still using the Sound Devices 788T on big budget productions.
You will surely outgrow your used Zoom F8n purchase before it ever becomes "obsolete"! (and you an go a LONG WAY with the F8n before you outgrow it, you could go a few years deep into a professional Sound Mixing career before you'd genuinely *need* to "upgrade" from it. It is very likely with your non-sound career plans that you will NEVER "outgrow" the F8n)
Do you know of any equipment that can add the audio of a mic to an HDMI signal/cable? Sorry to be off topic, it's just my capture card has a lot of self noise if I use its mic input - I think I could get past that by somehow feeding the mic audio through the HDMI along with what I'm capturing. Curious if it's even possible or such tech exists.
A camera can do that.
On the original Zoom F8, the limiters would raise the noise floor, because it worked by doing digital amplification to give its digital limiter headroom.
Is this also the case on the F8n Pro when it is in 24 bit mode? Or does it somehow leverage its 32 bit float capability to take input in float, then digitally limit, and then save as 24 bit, meaning no raised noise floor?
Same on the Pro as the original.
Hi, Since you are the pro out here, maybe you migfht be able to help me once again with the issue i have with my zoom f8n pro..
I have two Rode mics TF-5 that i use to recored performances. one of them started to have a kind of low constant buzz. i first thought that it was defect, but after Rode sent me a new pair, it was just the same. i then figured out that when the zoom is plugged to the DC power, this buzz is going into the mic, but when i use a V-lock battery, i can't hear the buzz. this tells me it should be some kind of electricity issue passing through the zoom and affecting the mic.
i've serche around but can't find any help to fix this issue. the funny think is that one of my mic never does it while the other one always does it and even the new replacing mics Rode has sent me..
i wonder if there's anything to do with the zoom so that the electricity doesn't affect the mics. or if there's a divice that could somehow clean the electricity so it doesn't corupt the signal..
i hipe you can help me and i look forweard reading your reply.
Always appreciate your help..
thank you.
This sounds like a grounding issue. I'd contact ZOOM to confirm.
@@curtisjudd yes. I now figured out it must be an electricity issue.
I hope zoom is generous with their after sell service..
what is the phase inverst for on the zoom?
For when you have two mics out of phase. You invert phase on one of them to correct that issue.
I'll stick with my F8N for now but this comparison was very informative and interesting. Thanks for this.
Thanks Chris.
Hey Curtis Good day! I’m looking at upgrading from MixPre-3 (mark i) to F8n Pro due to cost to input ratio. One thing I love about the mix-pre is the audio interface through usb-c and I notice the f8n has an older style usb port. Does the f8n pro appear to equal the mixpre ii series as an audio interface? are there any drawbacks of this older usb port on the f8n pro?
Hey AJ, the connector doesn’t seem to affect the performance of the recorder. But the F8 series in general do require you to manually go to audio interface mode every time you start it up vs. the MixPre which just connects automatically.
@@curtisjudd thanks for the info. great review as always. i trust you are doing well. blessings to you!
great review!
if I choose line on the f8n pro (for a very hot mic input) would I be able to choose 48v for that input as well? basically, using line as a pad for a phantom mic?
Yes
OK... But how the gain is implemented in 24-bit mode? Is it still digital? That would have to result in big increase in noise. That really make no sense to me.
I don't know, that isn't clear from the block diagrams.
Thanks for the review.
Is it possible to hear the sound through the phone's headphones when the iPhone is connected via Bluetooth?
I tried this but I can only perform the checks.
No, as far as I'm aware, the app does not receive audio from the F8n Pro.
@@curtisjudd thank you for replying.
Do you prefer the F8’s automix feature vs. the MixPre’s automix feature?
I prefer MixAssist on MixPre. I think it makes cleaner mixes overall.
Very interesting. In this case when the clipped audio was restored, to my ears it still didn't sound nearly as good as the sample recorded at lower level. So although the 32 bit can get you out of trouble, it's not a feature I would ever want to use. In fact I'd much prefer the safety track function of the two predecessors. (By the way, I think it's track 1 and 5 rather than 1 and 4: 1-5, 2-6, 3-7, 4-8).
Let me ask, do I understand it correctly that the Android app only works with the F8n Pro and not with the F8n and F8? If so, do you have any info on why?
Zoom say it works with all 8 series models. There was obviously no reason to not support such similar devices.
I don't know as I don't have an Android device to test, but it sounds like the app works with the original F8, F8n and F8n Pro.
You are right, the safety track for #1 is #5
Super detailed and helpful. Thanks!
Thanks!
I have a time code synchronizer - Tentacle E. But I only have a 3.5 jack input for it. What time code input does the Zoom F8N have? Will I have to buy an additional cable?
Yes, you'll need a cable with SDI on one side, 3.5mm TRS on the other. Tentacle sells these cables.
@@curtisjudd I still can’t figure it out 😅 They seem to write that a BNC adapter is needed.
@@human_support Apologies, I meant BNC connectors, not SDI. (incidentally SDI cables also use BNC connectors.) Try this: shop.tentaclesync.com/product/tentacle-to-90-bnc/
premiere.. finalcut......*cough* resolve...
Great review once again Curtis, thank you! Device looks really good
Yes, also Resolve.
Is there a cloudlifter required when using the Zoom F8n Pro with the SM7B, to get low noise recordings ?
No, not necessary and will just make the recording noisier.
What cable to use for the battery when going mobile and what to get to charge the battery. If you have an affiliate link so I can order it. Thanks Curtis
The cable with links is listed in the description (d-tap to hirose) along with the batteries I use.
I hope they gave you your commission Curtis because I purchased the cable and batteries. Thank you for all the great tips and advice
Can you please explain aes inputs in detail.
In short, they are digital inputs as opposed to traditional analogue inputs. Good topic for a future video.
AES is only beneficial if you're got wireless receivers with AES outputs. (or if you have an analogue to AES convertor, which is also what I use)
To transmit Timecode from this to a camera wirelessly could you use Rode Wireless Go?
No, the timecode signal is line level, I believe.
@@curtisjudd I am going to test this soon with a different hopefully more robust solution. I'll make a video and link it here. I feel for independent production it could be game changing if I am successful.
@@darrenorange2982 👍 Note that most digital wireless systems also have some latency so you'll need to accommodate for that somehow.
@@curtisjudd I will test that for sure. However my current assumption is that it should remain constant. The current latency should be well into the subframe area otherwise these transmitters would not work anyway for audio recording. I'll be testing with a Zoom F6, a old Canon 7D and a Z-CAM E2-S6. I will also test by pushing the audio back into another input and comparing the audio in Resolve. The solution also allows for up to 100 receivers and it sends stereo audio and claims 7ms latency. We shall see. I feel like worst case it can be a universal adjustment in post.
@@darrenorange2982 Makes sense. Best wishes!
Any guess as to when we’ll see 32 bit float in cameras? Seems like resolution wars are maxed out and dynamic range is getting closer by the month. Audio could be a point of differentiation.
Would be a nice addition. They're doing a roughly analogous thing in the Canon Cinema EOS line with Dual Gain Output sensors.
can you record tracks one by one or it is only made for recording tracks simultaniously????
Do you mean overdubbing? No.
@@curtisjudd thanks a latte
Regarding Curtis's RAW analogy: does recording in RAW not give more leniency in the actual color grade beyond "correction," or am I missing something?
Sort of and sort of not. Not a perfect analogy because even in raw you can clip.
USB-C Powering for the F8N pro? Or does it use too much power?
No, the USB port is USB mini.
Can you power it from the usb mini with a power bank like you can the zoom H5?
@@luciddreampictures No, the USB spec for mini ports cannot support enough power. If they had gone with USB-C, then it would have been possible. I have no idea why they didn't. But as a field recorder, a locking Hirose connector is a much better option for battery distribution systems or even single 98Wh batteries like are typically used for sound bags.
Can you send a link to where I could buy the external battery you mentioned for the Zoom F8N Pro
Yes, listed in the description - Bebob cinema battery and hirose to d-tap adapter cable.
Can I use this like a portable studio, eg: record 2 tracks then rewind jam along and record to the leftover tracks?
Or is it one take only?
Now there’s an app for the sound device recorders that does it there just a bit out of my price range!
No, this is made for field recording for video so no overdub feature. Have a look at their R series recorders for that
@@curtisjudd thank you for confirming that 👍🏼 i have an audio interface so was just looking for something portable. There is a musicians plug in for the mix pre ii series but i guess zoom dont want to crossover with their other products. Big heavy usb battery pack it is then!!!
Thank you for your review :) you are the best !!!
🙏
Thanks Curtis! I got the Zoom F4 looking at your review, years ago, and I haven't felt the need to upgrade at all, ever since. I use the Zoom proprietary attachment port occasionally with a Zoom EXH-6, allowing me 2 extra tracks when needed (The native 4 are usually enough for my needs). The F8N pro seems amazing, but perhaps overkill for most of us Zoom users (as compared to getting a used Zoom F8/F8N). Glad they gave the F-8 line a 32 bit float upgrade though. I'm hoping they show the same courtesy to the F4 series at some point :)
Yes, I’d like to see a new version of the F4 back, too.
Thank you for your videos, Curtis. They helped me in what to look for when researching/evaluating gears before purchasing. I film sports mostly. Would you know if ZOOM F8n Pro supports time code frame rates 50fps and 60fps?
Thanks. You would 25 and 30 for 50 and 60fps cases.
@@curtisjudd Thank you Curtis!
Thank you for the excellent review.
🙏
Hello again, isn't the dual channel recording feature available in the pro series? What do you think about this? Thank you.
No, I assume they figured it isn’t necessary with 32-but float. Doesn’t seem like an issue for my work.
This just in:
Curtis says the Zoom F8N Pro is as good as a boat anchor and praises Sound Devices for their wonderful recorders.
haha, just kidding. This was a very good review. I thank you on behalf of all of us who watch your detailed gear review videos. Keep up the good work.
Every bit as useful as a boat anchor 👍
Thank you Curtis for the very nice review of this product. Do you have an impression how this product acts when it gets some RF interference?
I have not experienced any issues with RF interference with the F8n Pro (or the previous iterations of F8).
@@curtisjudd Thnx Curtis.👍
Not sure if you have a “suggestion box” for future videos, but I’d be really curious to see some tests done for this particular scenario:
I’ve been doing some commercial gigs lately with interviews in rooms with poor acoustics (hard walls and often small rooms) and broadband noise (HVAC, etc). If I have the time I’ve tried A/B-ing my DPA 4017B vs my 4018B. Science would say a shotgun in this situation could present some problems with comb filtering, but potential help with the noise. The hyper cardioid should help with acoustics but may capture more noise. What I find interesting is the difference in distance to the subject these mics need. The shotgun capsule is several inches further away to keep the Interference tube out of frame. The past 2 gigs I’ve opted for the shotgun to help with noise but have been really wondering if the signal to noise ratio would be that much better with the hypercardioid since it can get significantly closer in the first place.
A side by side comparison test could be a really fascinating look into what mic works best and if that follows the conventions we all know or not.
Just some thoughts. Thanks!
Please send your 4018B to me with all haste and I'm happy to do the comparison. 😉 Just kidding. Fine idea, but I don't have a 4018b on hand.
Great review! Thanks!
Thanks 👍
will you compare 2,4ghz tiny wiriless mic such like deity pocket wireless,godox movelink m2,saramonic b500 or b900,DJI mic etc ? and how to set these tiny mic to zoom F8 series or SD or tascam X8 ? thank you...
Ah, good news, you just need a splitter cable and a 3.5mm TRS to XLR adapter like the RODE VXLR Pro.
@@curtisjudd hope one day you will show the audio quality from this tiny wirelesses when using mixerfield..thank you,sir
@@boykeification I have separate reviews of several of those wireless systems on my channel, if that is what you mean?
@@curtisjudd yes,sir...i will try to find at your channel..thank you,sir
Hi, which portable power bank or power supply do you recommend for this product?
Something like this: th-cam.com/video/bcofqVhVOGs/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
The Android app works with f8n. Ios13 bluetooth setting in the zoom system menu. Firmware 2.4 installed. Bluetooth addon installed. Start pairing on Zoom.
👍
Is this better than sound devices mixpre 6 II ?
That’s a matter of great debate. You can make excellent recordings with this and the MixPre.
nice review. does this one need the bluetooth adapter ?
No, this one has bluetooth built-in.
Hey there! I have a question so i recently recorded for a production where i had a boom and two lav mics. But upon import the 3 channels were grouped into one track? I couldn’t seem to find a setting where the recorder keeps the channels separate.. essentially Mono. Any suggestions or am i missing something?
This is normally how pro level recorders record. Then you separate them in post in your video editing app or digital audio workstation app.
Hi Curtis, many thanks for the review. Nevertheless I would have enjoyed, if you had tested the Bluetooth functionality. Does the F8n Pro communicate with Atomos Ninja V AtomX sync module? The MicPre‘s do not and the hdmi tc input is sadly useless. Hence, to create a modern tc workflow, the MixPre‘s are no option. But my F8 will not pair and maybe the Pro will be finally Pro? Maybe you have an answer.
Unfortunately I do not have and ATOMX module to test this.
Just a curious question - the self-noise test with the resistor across the input, what sort of R is it? Hopefully a low-noise one, but if not, I wonder if the noise could be even lower?
I don't know - Julian Krause, who has a TH-cam channel where he does more technical tests, made this for me, He'd know that detail.
Thanks for a very good video. Do the recording level dials on the front face of the F8n Pro feel a bit loose or have they got a good firm high quality feel.
They’re…ok. The action is fairly smooth thought the knobs are rather too small for my liking.
@@curtisjudd Are the slightly larger ones on the MixPre II better? Are they stiffer to turn which may suggest they are higher quality?
@@MaxEwen its a personal preference, but yes, I prefer the knobs on the MixPre.
Would you say the zoom preamps sound punchier than the mixpre preamps for dialogue? (or the other way around?)
Hmm, not 100% sure how punchier is defined but I’d say the F8n Pro sounds more clinical while the MixPre sounds slightly warmer.
This was very educational about 32bit float !!!
Glad you found it helpful!
so I have a question if I use zoom f6 or ZOOM F8n Pro which one is better for to connect to the mixer, because I have no clue what to worried about?
The F8n Pro has balanced XLR outputs so that is generally preferred when connecting to a mixer.
Excellent review as always. So the use I would have with this is doing interviews with multiple people sitting close to each other. I just finished a documentary and the automix feature sounds like it would have worked wonders for me rather than all the trial and errors I was doing with mic bleed and ultimately just isolating each mic. It sounds like it would have given me a good starting point and then do whatever post-processing was necessary. This doesn't actually create a mix, but keeps each track separate, right?
Also, be a solo producer, having one less thing to worry about with 32-bit would be nice. I get it's not something you can just turn it on and expect great audio, but at least I could concentrated on other things. Especially since I'm also on camera doing the interviewing.
The auto mix is recorded to the mix track but you can still record isolated channels that are not affected by auto mix so you can do the mix manually in post if you prefer.
The automix is only applied to the LR mix, the ISOs are untouched. (you should always record ISOs as well!)
How many hours do you get on average with a V mount on F8n pro and MixPre 10 ii? Just a ballpark range to get an idea.
4-6 hours depending on the capacity of the battery.
Does the Zoom FRC-8 work with the Zoom FN8 Pro... thank for an answer!! Take care!
Yes, it does. 👍
@@curtisjudd thank you so much for your answer!