VIC-20 Super Expander and EPROM programmer

แชร์
ฝัง
  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น •

  • @AvielMenter
    @AvielMenter 7 ปีที่แล้ว +96

    This video was in no way "mundane"; it's exactly the type of thing we like about this channel.

  • @joelonsdale
    @joelonsdale 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    I had a Vic-20 back in the mid-80's when I was about 11. I once tried to code Trivial Pursuit in Basic and spent weeks trying to make the pies and wedges and a circular board. When I finally succeeded in getting something that almost worked I started the process of entering the questions by hand. I typed in one card before running out of memory and didn't have the knowledge to design a workaround. In disgust I sold the Vic 20 and bought a guitar. Thanks to the Vic 20 I have been a professional musician all my life 😅

  • @KrisRyanStallard
    @KrisRyanStallard 5 ปีที่แล้ว +105

    I love that you have uses "around the house" for an 8K EPROM programmer.

  • @RonMcMahonVideo
    @RonMcMahonVideo 6 ปีที่แล้ว +169

    In 1982 my first software company wrote games for the VIC-20. We wrote our games in Assembler because of its speed and compactness. The one key point that isn't clear in this video is that the memory location that held graphics changed when you added a memory expansion cartridge, and each different memory expansion option (there were 3K, 8K and 16K versions) changed the memory map in a different way.
    What this means is that you couldn't write one set of code that would support every expansion option. You would need to write a completely different version of your app for each unique memory configuration, which was quite impracticle.
    Had Commodore designed the VIC-20 with a static memory location for video RAM regardless of added RAM, I suspect that they would have sold a lot more memory cartridges and the non-cartridge games would have featured expanded versions for higher memory systems.

    • @napomania
      @napomania 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      So normal games can't see any exoansion ram on the system?

    • @seancurtin6103
      @seancurtin6103 5 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      The 3k expander didn't move anything though. Only the bigger ones did that. It mapped into the RAM gap between adr. 1024 and 4095, which further suggested that the machine was originally intended to have the Super Expander features on-board.

    • @WinrichNaujoks
      @WinrichNaujoks 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Did you write the games for the VIC on the machine itself or was there a different computer to help you? Hand coding assembler and putting in each digit with help of the machine monitor seems awfully tedious...

    • @JustWasted3HoursHere
      @JustWasted3HoursHere 5 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@WinrichNaujoks If he was doing this in 1982 there weren't that many choices for development. I imagine they were using an expanded machine perhaps linked directly to a non-expanded one for quick turn-around during testing. Nowadays it would be so much easier to develop for those old 8 bit systems because of the multitude of tools (software and hardware) available.

    • @agnel47
      @agnel47 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thanks for this valuable insight.

  • @FreeFromReign
    @FreeFromReign 7 ปีที่แล้ว +331

    wow this thing was doing 4k gaming back in '81. Nvidia could learn something from the commodores

    • @aimwell8813
      @aimwell8813 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Funny joke.

    • @eleydb
      @eleydb 4 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      This comment aged pretty well.

    • @therealvbw
      @therealvbw 4 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      @@eleydb They did indeed learn, we now have the Nvidia 64 with better RAM.

    • @McCoy-00
      @McCoy-00 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Nice

    • @therealvbw
      @therealvbw 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@McCoy-00 Is that wheelchair mario 64?

  • @OddRagnarDengLerstl
    @OddRagnarDengLerstl 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I had on of these Super Expander cards. It really made it possible to write bigger and more sophisticated programs.

  • @andrewb9790
    @andrewb9790 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Wow! I had one of these! I was over the moon when I could draw circles using the cartridge. What memories, thanks for reviving them! ❤

  • @Barnacules
    @Barnacules 7 ปีที่แล้ว +64

    I can't believe how slow the pixel draw was on that system. Today's computers with modern GPU's can draw at like a billion times that speed. Really makes me wonder what things are going to look like in another 30 years.

    • @fabian999ification
      @fabian999ification 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      I thought it was slow because it was in BASIC, but the circle functions where programmed in assembly!! This means that even in native machine code it is still not very fast. Although, the 6502 processor was only running at 1 MHz

    • @TauGeneration
      @TauGeneration 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Dead or Alive Xtreme 3 Vr with real time haptic feedback

    • @thorham1346
      @thorham1346 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@fabian999ification Depends on the algorithm they picked and how well it's implemented. Assembly language doesn't guarantee speed.

    • @grahampickard3325
      @grahampickard3325 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@fabian999ification They are likely generic routines and not especially optimisesd.

    • @joelonsdale
      @joelonsdale 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Computers will be merely legend in the end times.

  • @gmwilkie85
    @gmwilkie85 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I'm so grateful for this TH-camr. 8-bit-guy provides solid content with ALL of his videos. Thank you!!

  • @moseshorowitz4345
    @moseshorowitz4345 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I would love to see a show where you did a showcase of more of these VIC 20 and C64 specialist add-ons. I've seen the several you've done already and found them highly informative and entertaining.

  • @bartonlynch
    @bartonlynch 7 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    Never "mundane", always awesome. Bringing back cool memories from my childhood early years of computing. Thank you and keep it up.

  • @meade916
    @meade916 7 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    i LOVE this channel! My first computer and game console was a vic 20. I am now sitting in front of a triple screen 7680x1440 on a pair of GTX 1080's in SLI...64gigs of ram and a huge list of other things too. I have had everything in between all these years too. Great memories. I would LOVE a C64 and an expansion cartridge :D

    • @therealvbw
      @therealvbw 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Congratulations.

    • @ljharnish
      @ljharnish 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I have a GTX 1060

  • @brendanfarthing
    @brendanfarthing 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Awesome. I had (still have) the VIC20 and the 3K expander. Became necessary as my coding got too large when I was a kid. Started my coding career right there in 1980 and still going strong today writing large system software for multinationals. The skills I learned back then are still valid today!

  • @DeepSEADetroit
    @DeepSEADetroit 7 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I still have my VIC20 and Super Expander cartridge! I have fond memories of exploring the new commands with it!

  • @LarryTalbot_1313
    @LarryTalbot_1313 7 ปีที่แล้ว +136

    Still, to this very day, the Vic-20 remains the single worst investment I've ever made in my entire life!
    I worked all summer cutting grass, cleaning garages, etc. to get the money to buy one. By the time I finally had enough money to get it home, not long (6 months later?) the C-64 came out. All of my friends had a total gaming monster, while I had a useless hunk of plastic, that could barely do anything.
    Yes, I'm still pissed off!!!

    • @chrisk8208
      @chrisk8208 7 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      Larry, you should have learned to program it. I did. Many hours of fun. Computers aren't just gaming machines and the Vic 20 was a long way from being a "useless hunk of plastic, that could barely do anything" you were just a useless kid who could barely do anything. Onya for at least earning the money to buy it yourself.

    • @LarryTalbot_1313
      @LarryTalbot_1313 7 ปีที่แล้ว +32

      Thank you for the insult, but not quite. I did learn to program it, even machine language later on with the C-64 (did you learn machine language?) But it was so limited that I could not program very much. It simply wasn't built for serious programming. (As serious as a person could get in those days, that is). The C-64 was pretty much a solution for all of that. I was able to program everything I ever dreamed of and a even dreamed up few utilities that weren't available either.
      I never regretted buying the C-64!
      Again, thanks for the insult. But once again the nourishing teats of wisdom have failed!

    • @jonathanpullen7439
      @jonathanpullen7439 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      I had a VIC-20 and I had a ton of fun with it.. mostly building various things to connect to the user port. Robot arm, misguided attempt at video acquisition, that sort of thing.

    • @Connie_TinuityError
      @Connie_TinuityError 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Jonathan Pullen Was that after the release of the Commodore 64?

    • @summer20105707
      @summer20105707 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Relax. At least you didn't buy the mattel aquarius. th-cam.com/video/ZlZn8ejso-4/w-d-xo.html

  • @MikesTek
    @MikesTek 7 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    wow, I would have LOVED that 3k expander when I was a kid with my VIC 20. I never even imagined being able to make graphics and sound like that from BASIC back then. thank you for showing this off.

    • @sandal_thong8631
      @sandal_thong8631 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I remember doing some graphics, but I don't remember doing the sound commands. I got it too late for it to be interesting or meaningful before leaving for college.

  • @barryward7633
    @barryward7633 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Thank you for the informative program, cheers from New Zealand.

  • @NeilVanceNeilVance
    @NeilVanceNeilVance 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Man that takes me back ... after saving pocket money to buy the cassette recorder, the super expander was next ... Oh those 'CIRCLES" ... great vid!

  • @bidyoddities
    @bidyoddities 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    The 8K and 16K RAM (VIC-1110 and VIC-1111, respectively) Expander Cartridge were released in the same period when the VIC-20 (aka VIC-1001) was released in Japan in 1980.

  • @BrenMcGuire
    @BrenMcGuire ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I picked up one of these at a market in Salisbury UK today. I just thought - that looks interesting, so I bought it. I'd then youtube it when I get home.
    Was not disappointed.😂

  • @carminone
    @carminone 7 ปีที่แล้ว +74

    I turned a Super Expander into a 35K RAM expansion with enable switches. You just need a 32K static RAM and a logic chip to do it. Then, you may load the Basic extension from disk should you need it.

    • @everythingpony
      @everythingpony 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Wheres a link and schimatics for it?

    • @cadenhood
      @cadenhood 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      We need those death star planns.

    • @DarthVader1977
      @DarthVader1977 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@everythingpony schematics*

    • @DarthVader1977
      @DarthVader1977 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@cadenhood plans*

    • @strongholds12
      @strongholds12 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      cazzozzo fucking reply nigga. We need them plans, right here right now

  • @evolutionairarms6559
    @evolutionairarms6559 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I had a Vic 20 as a kid around 1981, i loved that thing! I had a few games on cartridge but my favourite was an adventure game set in a nuclear power plant i think but cant remember the name.
    I had a graphic expander which you could make and animate graphics on as well as an I/O card, you could attach inputs and outputs that could be programmed from the Vic 20

    • @sandal_thong8631
      @sandal_thong8631 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Mission Impossible was text adventure #3 from Scott Adams Adventure Games. I had #1 Adventure Land and I think Pirate's Cove and Voodoo Castle.

  • @KingFredrickVI
    @KingFredrickVI 7 ปีที่แล้ว +27

    "Too mundane" lol I could watch these all day

  • @Ayodehi
    @Ayodehi 7 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Oh the nostalgia... I remember programming a breakout style game found in a magazine for my vic-20 and that 3k expansion was soooo helpful!

    • @sandal_thong8631
      @sandal_thong8631 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      That sounds nice. I think there were only a couple programs using it in the Compute!'s Gazettes I had. And since I got it when I was done programming on the VIC-20, but using ~56K on the Plus 4, it wasn't that helpful. Had I got it earlier, maybe it would have had enough RAM to run an assembly program?

  • @Niskirin
    @Niskirin 7 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Please do some more restoration projects, for some reason watching your videos on how you clean the cases and electronics is super relaxing.

  • @theolmaestro
    @theolmaestro 7 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Great video! IIRC one could use the Super Expander as standard 3K expansion RAM with the VIC-20 if, and only if, the expander was plugged into a memory expansion board. That board allowed 1) multiple RAM expansion cards to be plugged into the VIC's expansion port, and 2) turning off selected memory blocks on each RAM expansion card. I think the Super Expander commands were in block 5, so if you turned off that memory, you'd get the full 6565 bytes or so, and programs that needed 3K expansion would run without problems (but you'd lose the graphic and sound commands). Ah, memory - uh, memories. Thanks for sharing!

    • @sandal_thong8631
      @sandal_thong8631 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I thought there was such a thing allowing multiple expansion cartridges, but never saw it. The 8K and 16K seemed so expensive, getting a board to hold both was out of the question.

  • @RandomInsano2
    @RandomInsano2 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    The more obscure and useful the technology the better. A+++ would watch again.

  • @racer9x
    @racer9x 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    That video brings back the memories. Vic-20 was my first computer. I had one of super expander cartridges, just like you explained.
    I remember playing the game hard hat climber which I typed in from the magazine compute's gazette. Didn't have a joystick so my Dad made one out of a can lid mounted on a bit of sponge stuck to a bit of wood, with 4 screws to act as contacts for up, down, left and right. And a doorbell switch as a fire button. It wasn't the most elegant joystick, but it worked well.

  • @ChrisCebelenski
    @ChrisCebelenski 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Spot on about software support for these kinds of expander carts. I was doing commercial development for the C64 around 1984/85 and initially considered Simon's BASIC for the C64. But this would have limited the market for my software to essentially zero, so I needed to re-implement the routines that used the extended commands in my own ML routines. Plus there were distribution rights that my publisher didn't want to deal with, all of which added over a month of development time and necessitated investing in a BASIC compiler (Blitz!) for general speed improvements.

  • @grayday8089
    @grayday8089 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This video takes me back to my childhood and being a young teen in the 80s. My father bought the vic20 and was using it from home for his work. He'd connect to compuserve over the 9600k baud modem and do email.
    The coolest add on we had was a voice synthesizer cartridge. Once plugged in, you could make the vic20 say all kinds of funny things.

  • @briansouth9325
    @briansouth9325 7 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    As a ham radio operator, I approve this video!

  • @knockdown79
    @knockdown79 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    seeing your videos of 80's hardware and software made me realize just how far computers have progressed over the last 3 decades.
    Thank you for doing what you do!

  • @zazaaji9833
    @zazaaji9833 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I absolutely LOVE videos about lesser known devices/accessories/etc (not games) for old computer systems like this. Please keep up this type type of video.

  • @DustinRodriguez1_0
    @DustinRodriguez1_0 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The first computer I got to use and program on was a Vic-20. I had no cartridges and didn't even know where I could buy any if I wanted. I had the tape drive and maybe 3 or 4 very simple games on it. But that was enough apparently. Once I found the Introduction to BASIC Programming book that came with it (my parents bought the machine from some other guy they knew so I have no idea if those books came with every one) I was off to the races. I immediately fell in love with programming. I carried the books with me everywhere I went. Probably the most important machine I encountered in my life, really. 38 now and I've been programming ever since. Couldn't imagine not doing it.

  • @lwtve
    @lwtve 7 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Please make more peripheral-centric episodes like this, they're really interesting and not at all mundane/boring as you mentioned you think.

  • @RideAcrossTheRiver
    @RideAcrossTheRiver ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I remember getting my Super and being happy I could type in _Haunted House_ from _Compute_ magazine!

  • @GustaCz
    @GustaCz 7 ปีที่แล้ว +54

    Why are your videos so good, christ I can't live without weekly dose of them.
    I don't even own or plan to buy old stuff.

    • @jimfixespixels
      @jimfixespixels 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      "...if it could do at least 8k EPROMS I could probably find some interesting uses for it around the house..." - I hope ol' Murray never changes.

    • @YoutubePizzer
      @YoutubePizzer 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Just Gusta_Cz oldest thing I got is an old Windows 7 enterprise computer without wifi.

    • @MIW_Renegade
      @MIW_Renegade 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Just Gusta_Cz I own a whole bunch of old stuff (tube radios, computers, TVs etc.) but it was all given to me for free

    • @CristalianaIvor
      @CristalianaIvor 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Even if you dont (I dont either) its still interesting to learn, because it also makes you understand new computers :)

    • @JoBot__
      @JoBot__ 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@TH-camPizzer Oldest thing I have is probably my Sega Genesis.

  • @ArtVandelayLTEX
    @ArtVandelayLTEX 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    I don't own a single piece of vintage electronics, but I love these videos as a consumer of information regarding how technology has progressed through the last century. Would love to see more obscure peripherals because you're 100% right, it's great to preserve the history of how humanity has gone from mechanical computers up to today and everything inbetween.

  • @kevinsammut7246
    @kevinsammut7246 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Obscure peripherals no one has ever heard of is what makes this channel interesting. That and those (how this thingy works) videos. Keep the good stuff coming mate.

  • @TedSchoenling
    @TedSchoenling 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I had the Super Expander for the Vic20!!!! Ahhh good memory (and memories)

  • @povvercrazy
    @povvercrazy 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Talk about apt timing, I have just had a Vic 20 bundle delivered this morning and it came with the super expander :)

  • @Davizuky
    @Davizuky 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Please keep doing peripheral & programming-oriented videos, they're great!

  • @BastetFurry
    @BastetFurry 7 ปีที่แล้ว +25

    Its the same as with Simons Basic for the Breadbin. It was made because BASIC V2 kinda sucks but no one used it for something they released.
    I think the first time i heard of a game demanding an upgrade was Dungeon Master for the Amiga, which balantly said "1 MByte or get lost!"... now imagine if game devs on the Commodore did the same and said "REU or get lost!", what games we could have. ;)

    • @The8BitGuy
      @The8BitGuy  7 ปีที่แล้ว +23

      Speaking of Simons' Basic.... guess what will be in an upcoming video? :-)

    • @BastetFurry
      @BastetFurry 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Nice :D
      Maybe you can show some newer hardware too, like the SD2IEC, an AVR-Based SD card interface that can be homebrewn, or the Chameleon, a 1541 emulation in a FPGA, throwing 16 MByte REU and a 6502 turbo into the mix while we are at it, or the Retro Replay, an Action Replay "remake" with a clockport with a RR-Net attached.
      Once used the last one at a hackerspace party on a SX64 with Contiki as a webserver.

    • @abousono1
      @abousono1 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I can't wait for that video, this is one of my favorite channels.

  • @lactobacillusprime
    @lactobacillusprime 7 ปีที่แล้ว +28

    Excellent video, the VIC-20 is a very interesting older brother to the C64.
    I liked the AI video, I didn't agree exactly on what was being concluded and deduced but I would have loved to see a healthy intriguing discussion taking place instead of what happened. I think it is okay to disagree and communicate about it and be friendly, that's what I personally tried in the comment section of the video that was taken down. Sadly this constructive discussion didn't happen and I can understand why the video was taken down because of people being disrespectful.
    A lot of work goes into these videos and to see one go to waste saddens me. Anyways keep up your excellent work. You can't please them all but that's okay. Keep up the excellent work I say - this one was a gem! :)

    • @Jeffrey314159
      @Jeffrey314159 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      lactobacillusprime More like a runtish cousin to the C64

  • @hiimcody1
    @hiimcody1 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Please make more vids like this, love hearing about and seeing the stuff they had for these old computers.

  • @Jeffrey314159
    @Jeffrey314159 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    2:30 One of the reasons this machine had only 5KB of ram was to get it retail price to just under one hundred dollars - a hook for the customers!

    • @dbranconnier1977
      @dbranconnier1977 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Commodore owned the MOS chip foundry. They could have easily added another 3k RAM and a ROM chip and additional joystick port and still kept the costs low. I think Commodore was just being cheap.

    • @sandal_thong8631
      @sandal_thong8631 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      They definitely got in a price war with Tandy in a couple years with the C-64.

  • @davidhazard512
    @davidhazard512 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    To me its great to see things like this. I grew up in the 70s.. I never knew the history of the products.. great channel

  • @302Blue
    @302Blue 7 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Can you please make a video about the Commodore 16? you briefly
    mentioned it in the video about the incredible musical keyboard, but we
    haven't seen it since

    • @jacobfehr6258
      @jacobfehr6258 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Andrew here is the link for the c16 videoth-cam.com/video/ICiZbUypMlQ/w-d-xo.html

  • @BNGamesYT
    @BNGamesYT 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video sir, I love seeing these old peripherals. I wasn't old enough to enjoy them in their time but I inherited alot of this old tech in the early 90's when I was a kid.

  • @monolalia
    @monolalia 7 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Reminds me a lot of the graphics commands in the Plus/4 and C16's BASIC 3.5. We had precious little to lord over the C64 with its sprites and SID other than graphics, disk and structured programming commands (and windowing and scrolling with Escape codes... and 8 fabulous shades of black)

    • @The8BitGuy
      @The8BitGuy  7 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      yes! The BASIC 3.5 on the Plus/4 and C16 is my favorite version of Commodore BASIC. The BASIC 7.0 on the 128 was too slow and overcomplicated.

    • @monolalia
      @monolalia 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      I thought it was basically the same, just with more of everything? Sprite commands and such... too bad if it was slower.

    • @ncurtis1970
      @ncurtis1970 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      im in love with my VIC but I have got a plus 4 as bits on the side.

    • @sandal_thong8631
      @sandal_thong8631 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I got the Plus/4 before getting the 3K expansion, so didn't use the latter much. Commodore really went into the ditch or dead-end with the Plus/4 and C-16, when their line of development was PET > VIC-20 > C-64 > C-128 > AMIGA.

  • @NightFlyStudio
    @NightFlyStudio 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I could watch videos like this all day. It's very interesting stuff, keep it coming!

  • @TheRetroNobody
    @TheRetroNobody 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    This is very helpful to me. I had done a video myself a few months ago, just un-boxing a VIC-20, and playing a text-based adventure. But, I was very curious how the Expander cartridges worked, and what the Pros and Cons were to them. This has answered all my questions regarding them. Thanks so much for making this video.
    Also, any idea why the EPROM burner didn't just include the start ROM on-board? Seems unnecessary to have to load it separately every time. I feel like the odds of damaging that chip is high due to all the handling.

  • @RobertLiesenfeld
    @RobertLiesenfeld 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm enjoying the reviews and teardowns of 8-bit home computing peripherals. Please keep it up!

  • @LuisPintoTheFirst
    @LuisPintoTheFirst 7 ปีที่แล้ว +170

    Great video as usual!

    • @LuisPintoTheFirst
      @LuisPintoTheFirst 7 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Sayntavian I actually have yet to see a bad video from this guy!

    • @LuisPintoTheFirst
      @LuisPintoTheFirst 7 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      I didn't miss it.. and although a little bit different from the others I think it was quite interesting! If you think that are TV shows that cost millions of dollars to make and are way less interesting and accurate than what this guy does, that gives him a great lot of credit on his achievements! In all of his videos it's easily shown that he adores this stuff and I think that those people that started disliking that A.I. Video like crazy are a bunch of cry babies and spoiled kids used to have everything given for granted!

    • @LuisPintoTheFirst
      @LuisPintoTheFirst 7 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      This is the type of content that should be heavily supported in TH-cam to at least counteract the other type of useless one that's usually composed of brainless teenagers playing FPS while heavily cursing to try to earn a quick buck!

    • @LuisPintoTheFirst
      @LuisPintoTheFirst 7 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      I might agree that his approach might have been a little bit naive.. but maybe that was on purpose in order to reach a bigger audience that does not have a clue about how A.I. works (nor it wants too with a lot of detail).. having that, I still don't consider it to be a bad video!

    • @FedorSteeman
      @FedorSteeman 7 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      Holy crap! Would you people just let it go already!

  • @JagadishTalluri
    @JagadishTalluri 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Amazing.. Please keep doing these kind of videos. This channel is an online archival museum which stays in history.

  • @ShiningLuma90
    @ShiningLuma90 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Glad to see more videos from you

  • @TFEnright5
    @TFEnright5 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Another great and interesting video. Brings back memories of me writing BASIC programs on my VIC-20.

  • @ragzard
    @ragzard 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I just love those add-on cards episodes. Please, keep them coming!

  • @bsvenss2
    @bsvenss2 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I had this cartridge!! ❤️ Loved my VIC-20, Jupiter Lander and Omega Race! ❤️ Had no tape recorder at first and had to type in every basic games every time before I could play. Every time... 😝

  • @Barnacules
    @Barnacules 7 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    I wonder if the Immortal John Hancock has all this stuff in his crazy collection?

  • @dj_paultuk7052
    @dj_paultuk7052 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Wow what a blast from the past. I had the SuperExpander, and i remember typing the Garfield programme. That was like 33yrs ago !. Thanks for the flashback.

  • @marcsvenson7255
    @marcsvenson7255 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    loved your vid! been watching for a long time now, i love your channel!

  • @the_eminent_Joshua_E_Hrouda
    @the_eminent_Joshua_E_Hrouda 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    That bit about putting the EPROM into the ZIF socket and then running the program by the SYS command was fascinating and quite clever. I wish there were more programs that would load like that!!

  • @avsiii7661
    @avsiii7661 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Oh, man, I remember the Commodore VIC-20 and the SUPER Expander.

  • @bubbawv2
    @bubbawv2 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Love your channel. It brings back so many memories from my youth.
    You should make an episode or two on all of the peripherals that you have laying around that don't warrant a individual episode.

  • @jamesdecross1035
    @jamesdecross1035 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Just curious… where are you getting these sample programmes from? Thanks.

  • @LUNATIC75
    @LUNATIC75 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Much love for the Vic-20. As a 10 or 11 year old, I spent many hours programming on that ol' tub and the 3.5k limit was a right pain.
    Gotta be careful that my nostalgia goggles don't steam up! ;-)

  • @domramsey
    @domramsey 7 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Ah, my first computer. I've probably still got Super Expander somewhere. And a light pen!

  • @MatSpeedle
    @MatSpeedle 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    I've never even owned a vic 20 and I still find this stuff fascinating! Thanks 8-Bit Guy!

  • @EngineeringVignettes
    @EngineeringVignettes 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    One factor leading to the low memory was the price of RAM in the early 80's. Dynamic RAM was pretty bad, static RAM was crazy expensive. The VIC-20 had static RAM (5Kbyte), so putting 18 or 6K in it would have increased the price too much (I'm guessing a bit there on the reasoning at Commodore).
    -
    I had one as a kid... did not like it that much. I really liked the C-64.
    - Eddy

    • @stefanweilhartner4415
      @stefanweilhartner4415 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      i guess a vic-20 with 64k would have cost much more than a c-64

    • @sandal_thong8631
      @sandal_thong8631 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      After reaching the limits of the VIC-20 without getting a memory expander, I wanted a C-64. There was a price war with TSR resulting in the prices going down. Instead my dad sent me a Plus-4, which I couldn't do anything with since the tape drive port wasn't compatible with the VIC-20.

  • @theantipope4354
    @theantipope4354 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The 2 RAM chips in the EPROM programmer are 6116 CMOS SRAMs, which are 2Kx8 each, for a total of 4KB of RAM. I would expect that they are used to hold an image of the source or destination EPROM chip in the socket. Presumably either a 2716 2Kx8, or 2732 4Kx8 EPROM. That huge ferrite inductor/transformer would be for a switching converter to generate the rather high (21.5V, IIRC) programming voltage needed for the 2716 series chips, from the much lower voltage rails available from the VIC-20.

  • @AnOfficialAndrewFloyd
    @AnOfficialAndrewFloyd 7 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I have a VIC-20 but only because it has a kick ass version of Omega Race. For the Eprom burner, 2K and 4K makes it capable of copying or making Atari 2600 ROMs.

    • @postal_the_clown
      @postal_the_clown 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Quite honestly, Omega Race is the only reason I kept my VIC as long as I did.

    • @sandal_thong8631
      @sandal_thong8631 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Omega Race was a good game on the VIC-20 I got later. I got my VIC-20 with Radar Ratrace, their take on Rally X. Supposedly it was licensed but they didn't use the cars.

  • @mrkattm
    @mrkattm 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Big Thumbs up, I loved it, I am glad you are back to your roots, your last video scared me. Again, great job and thanks for sharing, keep them coming!!!

  • @jackfroste
    @jackfroste 7 ปีที่แล้ว +116

    You mentioned HAM radio in earlier video. Can you perhaps do a video or series of video on what is HAM radio, it's history and how it works? Possible for anyone to get started in it? Great video as usual!

    • @moth.monster
      @moth.monster 7 ปีที่แล้ว +62

      it's like a normal radio but it can only be used by pigs

    • @JonsMG
      @JonsMG 7 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      Even cooler, would be to highlight some of the ham radio cartridges/boards made for the 8-bit machines, such as the above VIC-20 and C64.
      Also, if you're interested in ham radio, here's a good starting point: www.arrl.org/what-is-ham-radio
      It's a great hobby.

    • @Lyrabon
      @Lyrabon 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      +post #876218 Lol

    • @jackfroste
      @jackfroste 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks JonsMG for the website. Lots of great info there. Still would be great if Dave can talk us through some of this and show us his equipment. I had no idea there were cartridges for 8 bit machines. Wow!

    • @Harrstein
      @Harrstein 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Hmmm SDR on a C64? that would be kinda awesome

  • @alanesq1
    @alanesq1 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I had a Vic-20 with Super Expander in the 80s, I was gutted when I later got a C64 and discovered it was not included as standard or even available for it.

    • @SynthFreaq
      @SynthFreaq 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      You'll be happy to hear that there was/is a Super Expander for the C64, not quite as common as the Vic-20 version, but it's out there...

  • @paul1153
    @paul1153 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Good work David.

  • @local130
    @local130 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I know this is an old video, but just tripped across your video. I used to work at Gloucester Computer Company in the early 80's. We used to make the PROMqueen for the VIC20 and a larger version for the C64 almost 40 years ago! Talk about memories! These were marketed as simple microprocessor development systems used to build other single board computers. We also sold V20 and C64 cartridges for EPROMS that you could put EPROMS into that would auto boot for games and other software. Wow! I remember taping the board layouts for some of those cartridges back in the when the process was purely optical. This was my first computing job. Taught me a quite a bit about electronics and 6502 programming. I miss those days! I don't know who TACTEC is, but it is NOT the original company.

  • @GreenAppelPie
    @GreenAppelPie 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    It seems commodore could've gone a lot further in the market if they woulda just added those chips to the motherboard as standard.

    • @saundby
      @saundby 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Or even as a pack-in with a new system. It would have been even better if the Super Expander hadn't conflicted with the Programmers' Aid cartridge. :)

  • @video99couk
    @video99couk 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    If only there had been a VIC-20 Super with this built in. It would have cost more of course, but would have been a huge hit.

  • @Jay99420
    @Jay99420 7 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    His shirt says "what happens in the Holodeck stays in the Holodeck" and I think it might have been a wink to we all know what.

    • @gregclare
      @gregclare 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      PLPantherPL I think you might be right on with that thought. Nice observation. But, more importantly... where can I get one of those awesome T-Shirts?

  • @pauljohnson7548
    @pauljohnson7548 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thanks for another great video. I hope you're not upset about the mixed reaction to your AI video. I think it's great that you tried something different.

  • @allan.n.7227
    @allan.n.7227 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Again an excellent video. More commodore stuff, please :-)

  • @ParoxyDM
    @ParoxyDM 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video, thanks for showing those to us. It's always interesting to see what was available and their features and quirks.

  • @americantherapy6228
    @americantherapy6228 7 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    Why was the Artificial intelligence video removed?

    • @secretivespider6587
      @secretivespider6587 7 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      ..because none of his methods were grounded in reality at all... coming from someone who has made an ai that learns to write sort-of well.

    • @queencepha
      @queencepha 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      I saw in one of his 8 bit keys episodes he said in the comments he ultimately removed it because of copyright issues with the Star Trek footage used

    • @stewiegriffin6503
      @stewiegriffin6503 7 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      he wrote a long statement about deleted AI video on his patreon page:
      www.patreon.com/8BitGuy1

    • @positronalpha
      @positronalpha 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      ... in which he proposes an idea that's even more absurd than a government conspiracy: "In actuality, I was thinking more along the lines of some random guy like me creating it in his basement and just deciding not to tell anyone about it [...]".
      Happy to see him back on things he actually knows a thing or two about. Love the retro computing stuff.

    • @positronalpha
      @positronalpha 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Why would I, ganymedeIV4? Never said anything to that effect. And what's with the attempted insult? Chill, dude.

  • @sdf39882
    @sdf39882 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    David, appreciated the video. I like these kinds of obscure accessory videos. Def worth the time to record some history about them.

  • @ZubAirT
    @ZubAirT 7 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Back in 1980 you needed a 4K screen for coding. 3:19 .

    • @melissanovak8261
      @melissanovak8261 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      That "4K" means four kilobytes of random access memory.

    • @v0xl
      @v0xl 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@melissanovak8261 r/woosh

  • @BoomRoomFive
    @BoomRoomFive 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Ah, 30 years ago I spent hundreds of hours melting my brick with the Super Expander! I also had a cartridge, which I believe was called 'Programmer's Aid', which boosted RAM by 8k and added BASIC editing functions such as 'renumber'. I was SO frustrated that I couldn't use both cartridges at once.

    • @sandal_thong8631
      @sandal_thong8631 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Someone in another comment reminded me that if you got more than one RAM cartridge you were supposed to get a memory board so you could use them both at the same time.

  • @sigbauer9782
    @sigbauer9782 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The VIC20 was the first computer I bought with my first paycheck. Cost about $97, about 1983? Even bought a FORTH cartridge, but never had the resources to learn it.

  • @gameguy73
    @gameguy73 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    The Vic-20 was a quirky system compared to its competitors. You mentioned the lack of RAM and the outdated BASIC, but you left out one of its most bizarre omissions. There's no hardware support for sprites. This made video games a bit of pain to program.

    • @sandal_thong8631
      @sandal_thong8631 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      As he said, it looks like BASIC came straight from the PET, so maybe the lack of sprites was part of that, too.

  • @Firevine
    @Firevine 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Oh man, those Ataris. I had those two as a kid. I miss them.
    I really dug the music for your game. Good stuff!

  • @MyFilippo94
    @MyFilippo94 7 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    If you feel like having not enough informations for some devices, but you want to talk about them anyway, you could make a "group video", where you just randomly pick the devices you prefer and say what you wanted to. While I appreciated that you showed us the EPROM programmer, I was a bit surprised, since it has almost nothing to do with the video, apart being a VIC-20 expansion. Nice video as always!

    • @The8BitGuy
      @The8BitGuy  7 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      Well, that was sort of the idea... since it might be a while before I come back to the VIC-20, I figured that was the best place to show it.

  • @andrewsosrodjojo7718
    @andrewsosrodjojo7718 7 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    nice music

  • @MarcosArizpe
    @MarcosArizpe 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    i am completely fascinated at this old technology and at the same time grateful that I got to live during the NES era. I didn't have to worry about lack of memory that much.

  • @stewiegriffin6503
    @stewiegriffin6503 7 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    I liked the AI video. It wasn't only about AI, it was philosophical too.

  • @sketchytimes
    @sketchytimes 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I enjoyed that sample from your game as well as the visual graphics. The visual graphics help me understand easier.

  • @lackedpuppet9022
    @lackedpuppet9022 7 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I wonder what computers will look like when our current computers are out of date.

    • @undeadelite
      @undeadelite 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      LackedPuppet 902 probably like old computers

    • @butwait
      @butwait 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Well Cave, you would know a thing or two about that, seeing as you left a trail of old to new behind through sheer science!

    • @neerajdwivedi2015
      @neerajdwivedi2015 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @joshbeech I think you should write 64 bit guy instead of 8 bit guy.

  • @Leightym
    @Leightym 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    This was the life of the computer enthusiast back in the 1980's. The TI99 4/a had the same thing in 2 cartridges; Mini Memory and Extended BASIC. Mini Memory added assembly language programming along with the extra BASIC commands.

  • @tjja7321
    @tjja7321 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Isn’t it spelled EEPROM? I don’t know, just asking.

    • @tjja7321
      @tjja7321 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      oh okay i didnt know that. eprom and eeprom are different? okay well i guess i know now! thanks.

    • @Liam-sh3bp
      @Liam-sh3bp 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Eep! The ROMs are back!

    • @officermeowmeowfuzzyface4408
      @officermeowmeowfuzzyface4408 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      *uv* light

    • @GRBtutorials
      @GRBtutorials 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Officer Meow Meow Fuzzyface *UV* light

  • @NeRvERaT
    @NeRvERaT 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    I learn new things about old tech all the time from you 8 bit guy. As a 80's baby, my first PC was a Tandy 1000 which I only learned enough to start exe. programs such as Kings and Police Quest. Later owned a 100 MHz Pentium running Windows 95, later 98. miss those giant loud tough PCs. Also remember being pissed when I bought a Gateway and it had no floppy drive! only DVD rom. the nerve.

  • @flyingninja1234
    @flyingninja1234 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video. It's nice to see tech that is no longer used today, being used again. Thanks.