Hey Matt. My money is on a worn shift fork. Clutchless shifting, even if you think you're being careful, can eventually wear down the pads at the tips of the shift fork and prevent the fork from moving the gear cluster far enough to engage the next gear. I learned this the hard way on a race bike a lot of years ago. Hope I'm wrong, but the symptoms sound awfully familiar.
Thanks for the insight man. That's my fear, but it seems the most likely. I'm going to try a few suggestions that might alleviate some of the issues for a bit. Luckily I've since found a few long-term options from lovely individuals that I've spoken with since making this video, and I'm just putting together the path forward to eventually getting another engine to drop in here while I rebuild this one.
If you do want to split the cases, Happy to come help. Also, maybe send this to Zoran and see if he has any thoughts. If you didn't swap with a 2nd gen star try that. There is a specific spring and detent star you need. It's a specific 2nd gen one.
Thanks man. I may take you up on that if it comes to splitting the cases. It's not something I've done before. I'll send Zoran an email. It's a tough one to explain with words or even a video since so much of it is feel, but I'm sure I'm not the first person to have the problem. And if the problem has existed... he's seen it. I actually just got my forks back from him--moving on from the knockoff emulators to gsxr carts!
You’re definitely not the first to have this problem. My Hyosung gt650 from ‘04 has the exact same problem you’ve shown us in this video. I have yet to come up with a solution. But it looks like the only thing left to do is splitting the engine..😢
@@AbdouSupreme booooo! Maybe we'll get lucky and somebody will come into the comments and give us both a silver bullet really quick! I find that a little unlikely though.
Im assuming the shift lever/rod is out of the equation by this point. Hit up mitch stein (i think you talked to him before and he's not too far in indy) maybe he has an idea?
I think that's a fair assumption, yea. I've gotten some good advice on things to try before throwing in the towel. I'm going to verify the clutch basket isn't dragging from a squished 20x36x3mm washer and try something besides my walmart Rotella. Waiting on some new float valves for the carburetor so I can get it running again first. I was checking the valve clearance (just curious) and when I turned the engine over, it poured a bunch of fuel out of the front cylinder which was pretty neat. I don't think it was a petcock issue since the tank has been off for quite a while. It *could* be, but don't think so. To top it off I broke one of the brass vacuum nipples which was pretty neat. Thank christ I was able to pilfer one from a destroyed set of carbs I inherited. i.imgur.com/n89Sj4o.jpg
Unfortunately I haven't. I switched to a different engine. I'm waiting a bit before I start tearing this one apart to try to resolve the issue--but I couldn't figure it out. I'm guessing it's a bent shift fork.
@@matttriestodothingsI was having the same issue, I put a washer behind the star and put my bike back together and it’s shifting fine now. Once the bikes running it’s gonna shift differently compared to a standing engine not under any pressure.
@@superbolt1239 It may be something that can be resolved externally, but it just doesn't feel right to me. I've pretty much resolved myself to the fact I want to take it apart to find out. I may try to do something fun with the engine, or maybe I'll just learn how to rebuild one. Luckily the replacement engine I bought was cheap and worked well. Pulled well at PittRace this last weekend and shifts so much better.
I wonder if the dished washer which is on the LHS and pressing against the circlip has allowed the shift shaft to move towards the RHS of the bike thus reducing contact between the shift shift pawl and the pegs in the star wheel?
@@jimbob128 Honestly, not sure. I won't get a definitive answer until I crack it open, and that won't happen until after the race season. I just put a new-to-me engine in it, and everything is fine.
hm.. maybe you're tightening that bolt too much? what happens when if you use a gen 1 spring? try no spring and see if its the same problem? i really hate the idea of mixing gen 1 and gen 2 parts in a transmission; you know the engineers very specifically laid out all the parts to fit just so. you say the shifting works better when the engine is hot; maybe its some how expanding the case and pulling the parts just enough so they don't catch? your shift fork idea may be right. im amazed you've been having this much of a problem and haven't taken the transmission all the way apart already. i just some random guy on the internet. i feel like i could tell you more if i was there looking at the parts with you. this video at this particular time may shed some light on your situation th-cam.com/video/hg1hn0KpU88/w-d-xo.html
I only had the detent bolt hand tightened with a nut driver here, so I don't think that's it. Regarding the mix and matching--the shift star, detent, detent spring, and shift plate changed shape slightly for the 04+. Spears sold (sells) upgraded shift stars, detent spring, and detent for the first gens. I had originally bought the Spears detent and spring for about $100. I just had to laugh when I received the gen2 OEM stuff and it was identical. Mad8v's also got a blog post about the slight differences in the transmissions here (that also explains why I can't use the gears from the 2nd gen set I bought): www.mad8v.com/blogs/blahg/trainspotting-transmission-differences-1g-03-04 Part of the reason I'm hesitant to pull the transmission out yet is because of a recent experience I've had with a (donated to me) blown up 1999 SV650 motor. I started taking it apart to learn. Got the cylinders off, pillaged the metal oil pump gear, etc. And I absolutely, 100% cannot remove the flywheel. Over the course of three weeks, I stripped 3 M20x1.5 bolts (flywheel pullers). Used a lot of heat. A lot of penetrating oil. A lot of force... nothing. It's like it's welded to the thing. Since I'm taking the blown motor into work to be scrapped regardless, I decided to hit the flywheel (charging rotor) with a sledge hammer. *still nothing*. So I'm just worried about running into a situation like that which is why I want to have a spare first.
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey Matt. My money is on a worn shift fork. Clutchless shifting, even if you think you're being careful, can eventually wear down the pads at the tips of the shift fork and prevent the fork from moving the gear cluster far enough to engage the next gear. I learned this the hard way on a race bike a lot of years ago. Hope I'm wrong, but the symptoms sound awfully familiar.
Thanks for the insight man. That's my fear, but it seems the most likely. I'm going to try a few suggestions that might alleviate some of the issues for a bit. Luckily I've since found a few long-term options from lovely individuals that I've spoken with since making this video, and I'm just putting together the path forward to eventually getting another engine to drop in here while I rebuild this one.
@@matttriestodothingshey can you share the long term options with me too please. I don’t wanna take the engine out of the bike
If you do want to split the cases, Happy to come help. Also, maybe send this to Zoran and see if he has any thoughts. If you didn't swap with a 2nd gen star try that.
There is a specific spring and detent star you need. It's a specific 2nd gen one.
Thanks man. I may take you up on that if it comes to splitting the cases. It's not something I've done before.
I'll send Zoran an email. It's a tough one to explain with words or even a video since so much of it is feel, but I'm sure I'm not the first person to have the problem. And if the problem has existed... he's seen it. I actually just got my forks back from him--moving on from the knockoff emulators to gsxr carts!
You’re definitely not the first to have this problem. My Hyosung gt650 from ‘04 has the exact same problem you’ve shown us in this video. I have yet to come up with a solution. But it looks like the only thing left to do is splitting the engine..😢
@@AbdouSupreme booooo! Maybe we'll get lucky and somebody will come into the comments and give us both a silver bullet really quick! I find that a little unlikely though.
Im assuming the shift lever/rod is out of the equation by this point.
Hit up mitch stein (i think you talked to him before and he's not too far in indy) maybe he has an idea?
I think that's a fair assumption, yea.
I've gotten some good advice on things to try before throwing in the towel. I'm going to verify the clutch basket isn't dragging from a squished 20x36x3mm washer and try something besides my walmart Rotella.
Waiting on some new float valves for the carburetor so I can get it running again first. I was checking the valve clearance (just curious) and when I turned the engine over, it poured a bunch of fuel out of the front cylinder which was pretty neat. I don't think it was a petcock issue since the tank has been off for quite a while. It *could* be, but don't think so. To top it off I broke one of the brass vacuum nipples which was pretty neat. Thank christ I was able to pilfer one from a destroyed set of carbs I inherited. i.imgur.com/n89Sj4o.jpg
I have the same issue, did you ever find out what the problem was, I can’t seem to find anything on it.
Unfortunately I haven't. I switched to a different engine. I'm waiting a bit before I start tearing this one apart to try to resolve the issue--but I couldn't figure it out. I'm guessing it's a bent shift fork.
@@matttriestodothingsI was having the same issue, I put a washer behind the star and put my bike back together and it’s shifting fine now. Once the bikes running it’s gonna shift differently compared to a standing engine not under any pressure.
@@superbolt1239 It may be something that can be resolved externally, but it just doesn't feel right to me. I've pretty much resolved myself to the fact I want to take it apart to find out. I may try to do something fun with the engine, or maybe I'll just learn how to rebuild one. Luckily the replacement engine I bought was cheap and worked well. Pulled well at PittRace this last weekend and shifts so much better.
I wonder if the dished washer which is on the LHS and pressing against the circlip has allowed the shift shaft to move towards the RHS of the bike thus reducing contact between the shift shift pawl and the pegs in the star wheel?
@@jimbob128 Honestly, not sure. I won't get a definitive answer until I crack it open, and that won't happen until after the race season. I just put a new-to-me engine in it, and everything is fine.
hm.. maybe you're tightening that bolt too much? what happens when if you use a gen 1 spring? try no spring and see if its the same problem? i really hate the idea of mixing gen 1 and gen 2 parts in a transmission; you know the engineers very specifically laid out all the parts to fit just so. you say the shifting works better when the engine is hot; maybe its some how expanding the case and pulling the parts just enough so they don't catch? your shift fork idea may be right. im amazed you've been having this much of a problem and haven't taken the transmission all the way apart already. i just some random guy on the internet. i feel like i could tell you more if i was there looking at the parts with you.
this video at this particular time may shed some light on your situation th-cam.com/video/hg1hn0KpU88/w-d-xo.html
I only had the detent bolt hand tightened with a nut driver here, so I don't think that's it.
Regarding the mix and matching--the shift star, detent, detent spring, and shift plate changed shape slightly for the 04+. Spears sold (sells) upgraded shift stars, detent spring, and detent for the first gens. I had originally bought the Spears detent and spring for about $100. I just had to laugh when I received the gen2 OEM stuff and it was identical. Mad8v's also got a blog post about the slight differences in the transmissions here (that also explains why I can't use the gears from the 2nd gen set I bought): www.mad8v.com/blogs/blahg/trainspotting-transmission-differences-1g-03-04
Part of the reason I'm hesitant to pull the transmission out yet is because of a recent experience I've had with a (donated to me) blown up 1999 SV650 motor. I started taking it apart to learn. Got the cylinders off, pillaged the metal oil pump gear, etc. And I absolutely, 100% cannot remove the flywheel. Over the course of three weeks, I stripped 3 M20x1.5 bolts (flywheel pullers). Used a lot of heat. A lot of penetrating oil. A lot of force... nothing. It's like it's welded to the thing. Since I'm taking the blown motor into work to be scrapped regardless, I decided to hit the flywheel (charging rotor) with a sledge hammer. *still nothing*.
So I'm just worried about running into a situation like that which is why I want to have a spare first.