Review: Liszt Symphonic Poems (and other Orchestral Works)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.ค. 2020
- A recent boxed set of Liszt's orchestral music on period instruments from Martin Haselböck on Gramola gives us an opportunity to survey the relatively limited field and reexamine the so-often maligned Symphonic Poems and other orchestral pieces, some of which remain very little known.
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I always enjoy my CD of Karajan and Berlin playing Les Preludes and Mazeppa. I love both of these pieces for their ability to thrill! Bombastic fun, especially Mazeppa. :)
The Solti set of 6 of the Liszt symphonic poems from the 1970's is coupled with Ivan Fischer's Hungarian Rhapsodies on an Australian Eloquence Duo. They're really good performances and so far, at least, available at a reasonable price.
Incredibly late to this party, but Arpad Jóo’s Liszt tone poems are available on both Apple Music and Spotify!
Love, love, LOVE! The Arpad Joo set. I’ve had it for some years now and every performance in the box just exudes Hungarian style. Well recorded and a great orchestra.
Thank you. Just a small addition: the orchestral version of the Legends is the original, Liszt own (genius) piano arrangements came a bit later. For some strange reason the orchestral version remained unperformed and unpublished.
Even people close to Liszt had no idea the orchestral version existed. Felix Mottl made an orchestral arrangement of the Prédication aux Oiseaux, probably unaware that Liszt had one.
That's right! I had forgotten entirely. Thanks for pointing this out!
I have a Solti recording with the LPO, they play the crap out of Les Preludes. Last year I put it on my telephone for my ringtone when we went summering in Berchtesgaden, haha...
I have an old mono recording conducted by Dean Dixon on the Westminster label of Les Preludes, Battle of the Huns, Mazeppa, and Orpheus. Recording is of the 1950s sonics at the time with heavy drum beats and shrill violins. Interesting renditions.
Liszt is an underrated composer - usually a bit of an acquired taste just like Wagner. Personally, I'm not really a large fan of the Romantics, as my favorite music is basically the music from Monteverdi to Mozart and then from Schönberg and Debussy to Messiaen, Nono, etc. etc. Wagner and Liszt are the two major exceptions. It seems that their music is often accused of being "much ado about nothing" and I actually think that the very opposite is the case: that the most popular Romantic composers have produced a lot of "ado about nothing", a lot of VANITY for people to show off how fast they can move their fingers and conductors to do silly grimaces. There is often little substance and a lot of vanity in that kind of music ... and I actually think that Liszt is one of those who have a LOT of depth and substance. And just like Wagner is he very "modern" in many ways. Both Wagner and Liszt have foreshadowed impressionism and to a certain degree even tonality. Bartok said that Liszt was the gateway that opened up to the music of the 20th century.
I love your thoughts!! Those two (Wagner and Liszt), I firmly believe, are two of the greatest martyrs of Romantic music!
@@michaelwinby5854 Indeed. Liszt has unjustly been maligned. Check out the TH-cam video "Franz Liszt: Enigmatic Genius"
The Masur is on Apple music, as separate "discs". If you search for Liszt Masur Gewandhaus you'll see them.
Correction from earlier post - they have the Haselbock and Arpad Joo's in Primephonic (interestingly they also have his recording of Listz's Die Legende Von Der Heiligen Elisabeth which I don't know but very curious about now!)
I often ask myself, "Myself, was the greatest era of music writing those years between Beethoven to Rachmaninoff with Mozart thrown in for good effect?" If it wasn't, there MUST be a reason why I'm so fascinated with it even to the point where Liszt's Symphonic Poems sound sublime to me.
David - greetings. Thanks for another video. We should acclaim Liszt as a genius on the basis of the Years of Pilgrimage and the Transcendental Etudes. I struggle with the orchestral pieces where Karajan (and Cherkassky) are my default option. My god, Tasso: lamento e trionfo (which they perform) is such a behemoth!!!! Best wishes, B
Maybe you should try someone besides Karajan?
My favorites Preludes and still is in stereo is Fricsays. But then I heard in a noisy transfer the Mengelberg. So individual and boy the powerful moments are incredible. Trying to find a good transfer
Hi David! Thanks for sharing your insight, knowledge and experience in music appreciation with interested people, like me. I find your comments always interesting and worthwhile listening. Are you considering a Review session for the Faust and Dante symphonies composed by Liszt? The Dante review would come just on time for the worldwide celebrations! If you do, I can´t resist writing here my favorite list of recordings: Faust: Chailly and Dorati with Concertgebouw, Beecham/Royal PO, Argenta/ Paris Conservatory O, Bernstein/BPO and Dante: Sinopoli/Dresden. Thanks for taking the time for reading this! BTW, did you ever post anything about the audio gear you´ve got?
I did not discuss audio and as I said, I will not .There's a review or the Dante Symphony (not a survey) already up.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Uppsss! I missed these two points somewhere in your videos. Sorry to bother you with stuff that has been treated already ! Cheers!
Masur was a unique experience. I will get the other set as well.
I found the Árpád Joó recording at Presto Classical, available via download for $12.00.
Thank you for this recommendation. I downloaded the mp3 version on Presto for $10. Downloads as a zip file and you just extract and then add to your iTunes library. Great recommendation! Listening as we speak to the first symphonic poem.
I downloaded it too... great bargain at £9.75 (FLAC CD quality). Thanks for the heads up!
Decades before these other sets, Nikolai Golovanov (in the 50s) recorded a complete cycle for Melodiya. Of course the sound is awful and the braying Moscow Radio Symphony brass is an earful. Golovanov isn’t subtle, but the cudgel he wields knows not an iota of dullness. You never know when he’ll linger a bit or go hell for leather. Kind of a Slavic Mengelberg on steroids. Some of it was included in EMI’s Great Conductors of the Century (in rather tamped down sonics), but 12 of them were released on 4 lps. Obviously, something for the specialist collector only. Thanks for the heads up on the Joo and Haselböck sets (had no idea Liszt had orchestrated the Deux Legendes....crazy!).
Thanks for mentioning Golovanov, They are indeed wild, as was most of his work in the concert hall. They don't make 'em like that anymore.
I find Liszt's personality so appealing I tend to like even his bad music. It always has some idea that is absolutely original, even if it is just a different way of positioning fingers on the keyboard. One always has this feeling he is writing the here-and-now, the way he reacts - always one degree above the mundane - and formal problems are nearly always related to this subjective way of organizing his ideas. I find this so lovingly old-fashioned on the one hand and forward-looking on the other. It oozes generosity - with his own feelings and ideas and with his appreciation of others'. This self-examining - Hunnenschlacht, the Christian and the barbaric fighting within himself - is such an antidote to the current meanness of self-excuse. Regarding the tone poems, they are terribly old-fashioned, in subject and scoring, but still they can occasionally take one to subjective places no other 19th century composer can. I have never heard a completely satisfactory recording of them; Solti probably is the one who gets the closest. Balance is always wrong and the attempt at correcting the music by playing in a detached way is disastrous.
I also like the set on Naxos (actually couldn't get past the sound of the strings on Haselböck's recordings)
I've just spent a long time re-listening to L's symphonic poems. They are tremendous. I think the problem is that he was judged too quickly early in musical history and people listen with preconceptions, so don't really listen. Listening backwards, as from Sibelius, transforms understanding of both L and the later composer.
Wonderful wonderful Gramola tip Dave...BTW, I heard the Ballot Bruckner 9th live in St Florian and have the CD and the memory of the wonderful experience does not wear well on repeated hearing...I have the Masur set(s) on LP and they are un Masur like to say the least...thanks again
My pleasure. Thanks for your comments.
I’ll have to listen to some of these discs. I’ve never really listened to the Liszt tone poems because everyone and their Cousin Bob has told me not to waste my time. But I always suspected the creator of the tone poem’s works in the genre couldn’t totally suck. If they did, no one would have imitated this still-vibrant genre.
The only Liszt orchestral work I know is the Faust Symphony, which I very much enjoyed when I heard it. (I had Chailly/Concertgebouw. I've heard people say it's a low-key performance, but it seemed satisfying to me.)
I was a little surprised that you didn't include the von Karajan set on DG.
I am deeply fond of Hunnenschlacht. But to my ear the best recording, by far is (mirabile dictu) Ernest Ansermet conducting l’Orchestre de la Suisse Romande.
I have not heard Haitink's Liszt recordings and have not felt an urge to rush out and get them, despite good reviews from the British press on the initial release on LP. I enjoy the singleton Liszt recording by Fruhbeck de Burgos on BIS, and back in the day I liked Liszt performed by Solti with the Orchestre de Paris and the LPO (who deliver a dynamite Les Preludes). When I was in a curious mood some years ago I got a DG disc of LIszt by Sinopoli and the VPO ; still not sure if I like it. Any thoughts on that and Zubin Mehta's Liszt ?
Sinopoli didn't do it for me, but Mehta is excellent,
I have the Haitink box set version (LPs, and later the CD set) of it of the complete tone poems and it was the first time I ever actually owned all 13 of them. My favorites are the Mountain Symphony, Tasso, Battle of the Huns, Mazeppa, Hamlet, From the Cradle to the Grave (the peaceful ending in particular). Hero's Lament is a little too tragic for me.
@@JohnDoe-jt4ju Unfortunately the Haitink set is woefully bad. Liszt has been maligned largely due to conductors who have no understanding of Liszt. They either play dreadfully slow tempos that make the music boring or hack the music with unfeeling bombast. I have numerous recordings by different conductors, since no one conductor nailed every Liszt piece, which goes without saying. However, the Masur set is far better than Haitink's, so that would be the best place to start. However, Solti's "Prometheus" is the best, while the "Faust Symphony" is well played by James Conlon. That's my two cents. :) Enjoy!
Have you had a chance to listen to Gianandrea Noseda's set? I don't think it's been issued as a box, but in 5 "volumes".
Have a look at my reviews on Classicstoday.com. I cover three of the volumes.
Interesting, thanks. Martin Haselbock is a fine scholar. He has supervised definitive edition of Mozart and Liszt's organ music for Universal Edition. He is also a virtuoso organist, a follower of the great viennese Anton Heiler. He did indeed very good organ recordings, in particular of Liszt's complete organ music as well of baroque music. Concerning Liszt, what do you think of Nikolaï Golovanov (incomplete and in historic sound) anthology of Liszt's Tone Poems?
See comments below...
Slightly off topic, but for those interested in such things, Haselböck's Beethoven is worth considering; tempos are mostly within a Toscanini/Szell version of normal, and don't sound as if they were recorded in Franz Bruggen's bath tub.
I guess you are referring to Bruggen's second cycle on Glossa? The earlier attempt on Philips sounds better, though is still not exactly gripping. (Bruggen has does some good stuff, e.g. in Mendelssohn and Haydn.)
So, is Liszt trash? I'd prefer to say that not all of it is first rate. That, regrettably, includes some of the symphonic poems.
I am glad you quoted Tovey on 'Ce qu'on entend', because I feel the same way about it. But you are right that 'Hunnenschlacht' is very effective, 'Orpheus is beautiful, and 'Von der Wiege' is a wonderful piece. Which brings me to the recordings.
In 'Von der Wiege', the middle section climax has two trumpets in unison, ff, which Liszt marks intrepido. With Masur, you hardly know they are there. And that sums up his performances for me, far too sober and lacking Lisztian spirit. Certainly you are right that the Haitink is just dull. I haven't heard the Joo or the Haselbock, but somebody mentioned Michael Halasz on Naxos, 4 separate CDs and very good. Does it help to have a Hungarian conductor in this music?
Anyway my three standout Liszt symphonic poem recordings are all outside the complete sets. In 'Von der Wiege', Solti (yes his trumpets are ff and intrepido!). In 'Mazeppa, Karajan - not exactly subtle but very exciting. And above all, in 'Les Preludes', Fricsay, for me one of the great recordings of anything.
Thank you. I agree with your estimation of the individual discs, but I was doing sets. I am impressed by the fact that you can discuss these individual versions (and criticize Masur) so specifically.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks for your kind comments.
Go for Joo. Not the best production, but nice transition and perfect tempi. Solit should have done a complete set of the symphonic poems.
I found the complete Arpad Joo set on Apple Music.
My impression of Liszt's orchestration, was actually that he kind of tended to spam the string section. Could it be an effort to even the balances in the Weimar orchestra?
I like the Masur box because he keeps pushing the music forward, stopping it from bogging down as it so easily can. The only place where this approach really fails is Orpheus, where he is just too fast.
I think Liszt was an important and underrated influence on Russian music, and his Heroide Funebre sounds a lot like Mahler! (I'm surprised you didn't mention this piece.)
Heroide funebre is even worse.
Strange, I've just been listening to some orchestral Liszt, and this video pops up. Just like Wagner, he's one composer who you either love or hate. I found that a lot of conductors don't really do justice to the kind of meditative/contemplative, deeply introspective music that epitomises his orchestral output - and they become boring as a result.
Jóo's set is on Tidal and Qobuz.
I knew you'd be able to tell us. Thank you!
@@DavesClassicalGuide Haselböck as well.
And on Spotify: open.spotify.com/album/4nrkuupHmAdORns7RWRV6b
And on Apple Music: music.apple.com/us/album/liszt-symphonic-poems-complete/379242613
It's on Brilliant Classics! I think it's out print now, but should be knocking around second hand for reasonable prices.
I do a podcast called “A Year in Classical Music,” and for the shows covering music from 1837 I got the Masur box looking for the best record of Liszt’s fantasy on Beethoven’s “Ruins of Athens” Overture. It’s not the greatest piece, though, and I prefer Louis Lortie and The Hague orchestra.
Where to find this podcast?
Saxo Ungrammaticus - AYICM.com, and it’s on the iTunes podcast store, too.
Since you asked elsewhere for subscribers to post their own opinions, but only if they go into some detail as opposed to just naming a recording, here are my observations after checking out your recommended performances via streaming.
First off, if you're only interested in the "canonical" Symphonic Poems, and don't mind downloads instead of physical media, the $12.00 price on Joó's cycle is an absolute bargain. Really nice playing and orchestral tone, quite well-recorded, and, above all, an interpretation of unusual depth. While Masur, for example, seems to be playing these works purely as orchestral showpieces, Joó seems to see them as not just sonic spectaculars, but as works with real, "serious," substantive musical value...and, after hearing his renditions, one might even be tempted to agree.
But of course, that's only if you just want the standard Symphonic Poems. If you want more (the Faust and Dante Symphonies, the works with piano), Masur's set is also a bargain at under $30 from Amazon. As I wrote before, it seemed to me that Masur stayed more "on the surface" of the pieces than Joó, but that's probably not a major drawback for Liszt of all composers. And, whatever else may be said, Masur and his forces are never boring. His orchestra seems larger than Joó's Budapest ensemble, and are recorded in more of an "audiophile spectacular" style -- although, at times, the brass (which I'm guessing was given spotlight mics) can get harsh on climaxes. Still, what I've heard of the set is quite entertaining, and may be all a listener would ever need.
Now, as to Haselböck...this surprised me. As a devoted HIP-pie, the thought of "original instrument Liszt" sounded like something that would be right up my alley, but the results left me cold. Perhaps a clue to my disappointment might be found in the headline to your ClassicsToday review of the Hungarian Rhapsodies found in this collection, which you billed as "A Tasteful Set." Might I suggest that it was all a bit TOO tasteful? Like Lily Tomlin's "tasteful lady" from the old Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In (and how old do you have to be to get THAT reference?), it seemed to me that Haselböck wanted so to avoid anything that smacked of "bad taste" in this music that he lost a lot of the fun as well. I fail to see how anyone could listen to this Mazeppa and then accuse Haitink of being boring. And his Dante Symphony suggested to me that Hell was likely only a somewhat-disagreeable place, while the heavens were a study in blissful lethargy. About the only thing I found interesting about this set was the "original instruments" themselves, and only in the sense that the difference in sonority, compared to the other sets, was interesting. Not "revelatory," merely "interesting."
So, in the long run, I've ordered the Masur set, as it fills in some Lisztian gaps in my collection. I'll probably get the Joó download in the near future (I make it a practice to not buy too much per day, lest I and my music collection wind up on a steam grate somewhere). As to the Haselböck -- well, if I have to remove one set from consideration, I guess it's a good thing that it turned out to be the most expensive one.
Thanks for taking the time to comment in such detail. I hope you enjoyed listening AND writing about it. We are all the richer for it.
My own experience of Haselbock has been that he is proficient but four-square and unexcited. But I will sample his Gramola series to see what it's like.
As I was having trouble not being rude about Elgar the other day, this is an interesting one.
I am really a big fan of Liszt generally, and as a person as well as a composer, he had his flaws but he was one of the greater figures of the 19th century. So I never quite believe it when critics turn from his piano music to his orchestral music and are so unkind. I mean it’s just not plausible that his musical imagination goes so off because there are other instruments involved. I recall Andrew Davis, on an interview accompanying a video of Lulu from glyndebourne being asked if there was any music he didn’t like. Liszt tone poems was the fast answer and I expect it’s a cliche of the British music schools to say so. It’s a terrible answer as there is so much worse music than this, including a lot by Elgar and other people Davis has devoted himself to. I may well check out the Haselbock so thanks.
Oh and yes, I do have the Arpad Joo recordings and they are in a brilliant classics Liszt box - some fantastic pianism in there too so a good buy.
Haselböck is boring, but great sonoroties.
Asa kid in the late 40s I remember hearing Les Prelude used as background music for the old Saturday afternoon double feature westerns.
Not long before then, Les Préludes was used as the theme for the -news- propaganda bulletins in Nazi Germany.
The Lone Ranger used it.
Was used in the Flash Gordon serials in 1930s along with much other of Liszt's music.