The complete opposite of Fallingstar beast. I love this design where you only have 1 way of engaging with the boss and can't creatively think of your own solution 🤯
I think what everyone gets hit by is that small extra hitbox on the leg of the boar during the charge. It seems to poke out just a little and maybe that just makes it inconsistent to roll through?
i didnt even seen that with the bigger hitboxes in the way. that explains the inconsistency. if it was JUST a downward pill shape then, dodging should be more than fine. its just hard to understand without this visual when any other big dash attack in the game doesnt catch you on the roll.
I think it might just be instability. Instability frames are usually frames while you're attacking, running or in roll recovery, during which you take counter-damage.
It’s actually even *when* you roll, too. The box sticking *just barely* outside the width of the boar’s body model is what catches me, even when a roll is performed at the exact last possible moment before the front of the tusks hit. You can’t just roll directly left or right because the boar will steer into you from that distance-it works for the player at 4:16 but I think that’s because Gaius stops the charge attack right after the roll; usually he just keeps charging, which means he keeps steering, which means just left or right doesn’t work. It has to also be forward. The back length of the body box can collide with where you roll after performing the correct timing and direction, because that direction (diagonal) has like 15-20 degrees of variance-roll in the wrong part of that variance and you’ll get hit despite “doing the same dodge which worked last time”. Idk how people are like “what do you mean, there are no problems here” when it couldn’t be easier to identify. Maybe people are assuming the light roll is the “standard” dodge. It’s also making me wonder if a sprint jump to the side would work better.
@@Zythryl medium roll is hard roll in dlc so many don't notice. It's why you so many youtubers stack endurance. Completely unbalanced garbage, base game medium roll was fine for everything except malenia now it's practically requires unless you want a headache.
I think the tusks are the issue here. They get very easily obscured if he charges at you from the front. Making it very hard to judge just how far they are sticking out. Which often lead me to just roll way too late. Sure it makes “sense” that the tusk have a hitbox but it probably would feel better to dodge the charge if they just made the body the hitbox.
thing with how FS devs add hitboxes to models is they dont adjust to model shape completely, they are big cilinders or spheres from one point to another. This indeed makes those hitboxes to cover empty spaces in between the model dummy polies, and thats mainly why players feel they are wronly placed.
No hit boxes in any game comply exactly to the model. Collision detection is costly on system resources so all collision is handled through simple shapes that are applied to the player or enemy object. This one seems pretty ridiculous though, if they reduced the size of that big capsule by even 5% I think it would feel completely fine
@@SoHawful true that, although there are a few enemies attacks in ER that have pretty ridiculous hitbox capsules, and would have felt more balanced if they didnt oversimplified them and made them fit better to enemy model
idk how else to explain it but there's something up with this boss. Some times but not others I would hit him and it would hit twice, as if he and the boar were different entities. I would also notice I would randomly take double damage on the charge attack and could never replicate consistently or understand why
I'm pretty sure I've taken double damage on the kick when standing behind, not sure if bug or intentional and it's hard to tell even in slomo if it's meant to hit twice
I think it due to the hit box on the belly, idk either. Also I guessing cause it moving maybe we get hit multiple times so it calculates it all at once. This video has shown it not massive hit box but something to do with how the registration goes. Cause I also had times where I get hit and take some dmg. And get hit by the same charge and lose way more like double. Glad to see video finally giving some answers.
I've fought this guy many times (several characters of my own and also helping folks) and I've noticed the same. Sometimes the back kick and the charge attacks do about twice damage or so. I haven't had any issues with hitboxes in ER but something is definitely wrong with those two moves. The damage received is inconsistent at times.
I knew that the charge hit box had some form of extra stuff to it, but this is one of those instances where you have to dodge to the side instead of dodging into the move itself. Once I learned that, the charge wasn't that bad.
Not only is that hitbox bad(it extends outside of the hooves), but the way the charge tracks you too. He steers towards you. So the best option is to dodge to the side from a standstill or run one direction and switch directions right before dodging to the other side. The latter being really tricky timing.
I see now why my attempts to counter roll the charge always failed and why spacing and evasion were better. Full length hitbox. I figured it'd be on the front and I could slide past it and still be in a good striking spot. Spent ages trying to do that.
Thought so. The worst thing I faced with commander Guias was a belly slam attack hitting me twice, despite the second hit triggering during recovery, eating 2/3rds of my 60 vigor quickly. If I was to guess why based on what this video shows, it may have been both the front tube-like hitbox, and the second at the feet, triggering one after another.
This video actually confirmed my suspicions about the charge hotbox being inconsistent. I’m seeing disingenuous comments. The boar charge has horizontal tracking. If you dodge left and forward-which you have to because the hog can turn-the boar body is too wide and long backwards. I don’t see a hit box on the legs themselves, but because the body box extends just barely too far back and wide, that’s something you can get hit by because the hog will start steering wherever you’ve rolled *when* you roll, and not after it. The tusk cylinders extend just barely further than the model, too, making the tight timing deceptively earlier than expected. “Expected” meaning you can press the button before the model of the tusks hit you and expect to dodge in time for the signal to register. The second charge shown off is deceptive-he won’t stop the charge and 180 every time you roll it. He can keep going after you’ve dodged. The problematic body box remains. Making the charge the only dlc attack I can think of, outside of Senessax and the last boss, with an inconsistent dodge time due to its tightness. It’s like the hippo grab without being a grab.
This confirms to me that the charge is weird. Also the mule kick is a double hit. Was wondering that. Looking forward to fighting him again soon, though I hope the charge gets a shared hit list or something.
This boss actually looks like an insanely fun challenge. I haven't played the game, so I obviously cannot judge, though I have seen an awful lot of badly timed dodges from players being immediately blamed on "hitbox inconsistency". Of course I get that he's absolutely relentless and the charge is so quick that timing will be very difficult. Would love to try him even if just for the sake of curiosity 🙂 (hell, I might quickly change my tune...)
It does, though. Look at 4:16. The body box extends into the space between the tusks, which is where you expect your player to be in the last moment before the dodge. The length of the box isn’t the chief issue though-it’s the width. The boar can steer during the charge, and the box extends further out sideways than the actual body-so when you dodge forward and to the left or right, as you must do to avoid the steering tracking, it won’t always work. The box extends into the empty space you will occupy at the end of the forward-and-side medium roll you are expected to perform. Not to mention the tusk boxes themselves stick out just *barely* longer than the actual model. It’s just the charge. It can be easily dealt with using Raptor of the Mists, but the medium roll you have to perform is categorically inconsistent. This video shows it. In the 4:16 example you can even see the player’s box rub up against the side of the boar’s body box. That’s a roll that will hit *sometimes* because the barely-different timings and direction will be seen as doing the same roll. If you are visually doing the same roll and having it only sometimes succeed-as we see here-that is what inconsistency is. The roll needs like less than like eight degrees of leeway, and like two in-game inches shaved off the tusk box and body box lengths, but it still needs it. It’s literally *barely* within the bounds of that “inconsistent” threshold. It’s actually amazing to *me* that I’m seeing all these “it’s right there! The lack of problem is visible!” and I’m pointing to the same thing going “what do you mean? The problem *is* right there and you can see it”
@@Zythryl yeah fair enough lol, it does stick out very slightly but not enough that it's that big a deal, i think the tusks being far apart but still having a hitbox between them might be throwing people off (even though i feel it makes sense)
@@Cathart1c personally never got hit by it, strafe and roll to the side, saw other lets players dodge it like this too. Can Blinkbolt through it as well if you happen to be using it so I’d imagine BHS works too. Idk this is a hell of a lot of hate for just one supposedly janky move, which makes even less sense now seeing that there is no hitbox behind the pig
I don't think at least for me it was never the hit boxes itself. It was that the pig still tracks/turns when you dodge. This would keep the body hit box on you just long enough to to hit you at the end of the roll. And i think the only time it's a true issue is the first charge after dying where you start stationary on the stairs and he starts much closer. Which is why people are using getting on torrent to dodge it and not just rolling it
Rolled at the very last moment before the attack connected. Hell, you can even strafe around the last two hits with a sprint, which is a nice, free charged R2 or charged spell. The fight's underrated
I was genuinely perplexed to discover that people were having difficulty with this. Looking here the hitboxes seem fine. I still don’t get it. People were comparing this to bed of chaos.
Some of these hitboxes are just bad even when visualized in slowmo. Also while the hitboxes are accurate, when game speed is slowed down the game tends to act weird sometimes. Note: slowed game speed is way different from slowed footage, which this video is not. You can see some moments in this gameplay alone where they shouldve gotten hit but slowed game speed(and light roll) saved them, or even the projectile that moves while pulling you in didnt even move at all. And you can clearly see that the charging attack can hit multiple times resulting in a "1 shot." Giaus is just not a fun fight, with not great hitboxes and aside from duo Gargoyle is the worst fight in the game IMO. I respect anyone who likes the fight, power to you, you found a way to enjoy it. But me and all my friends played solo the first time for everyboss except Giaus, we had to summon eachother cause we just werent happy.
For me, i know it's not the hitboxes, it's the model collision from the tusks turning the charge into a 3 hit combo if you get hit by the middle like i do, if they change it so it tosses you to the side and prone, it wouldn't do thag
I think it's funny how while he's charging, he's completely invincible to all projectiles
The complete opposite of Fallingstar beast. I love this design where you only have 1 way of engaging with the boss and can't creatively think of your own solution 🤯
Look man. I was drunk when I just said the same word twice
If your idea of a creative solution is just constantly running away, then sure 👍
I think what everyone gets hit by is that small extra hitbox on the leg of the boar during the charge. It seems to poke out just a little and maybe that just makes it inconsistent to roll through?
I had a feeling that might be the case, glad to have it confirmed
i didnt even seen that with the bigger hitboxes in the way. that explains the inconsistency. if it was JUST
a downward pill shape then, dodging should be more than fine.
its just hard to understand without this visual when any other big dash attack in the game doesnt
catch you on the roll.
I think it might just be instability. Instability frames are usually frames while you're attacking, running or in roll recovery, during which you take counter-damage.
That Nuh uh hit box
Miyazaki intended 👌
The problem is the turn rate of the boar during the charge attack, being able to correct itself to some extent even after you're pass it. IMO
It’s actually even *when* you roll, too. The box sticking *just barely* outside the width of the boar’s body model is what catches me, even when a roll is performed at the exact last possible moment before the front of the tusks hit. You can’t just roll directly left or right because the boar will steer into you from that distance-it works for the player at 4:16 but I think that’s because Gaius stops the charge attack right after the roll; usually he just keeps charging, which means he keeps steering, which means just left or right doesn’t work. It has to also be forward. The back length of the body box can collide with where you roll after performing the correct timing and direction, because that direction (diagonal) has like 15-20 degrees of variance-roll in the wrong part of that variance and you’ll get hit despite “doing the same dodge which worked last time”.
Idk how people are like “what do you mean, there are no problems here” when it couldn’t be easier to identify. Maybe people are assuming the light roll is the “standard” dodge.
It’s also making me wonder if a sprint jump to the side would work better.
@@Zythryl medium roll is hard roll in dlc so many don't notice. It's why you so many youtubers stack endurance. Completely unbalanced garbage, base game medium roll was fine for everything except malenia now it's practically requires unless you want a headache.
DLC fights are so much easier with a light roll it's crazy
I think the tusks are the issue here. They get very easily obscured if he charges at you from the front. Making it very hard to judge just how far they are sticking out. Which often lead me to just roll way too late. Sure it makes “sense” that the tusk have a hitbox but it probably would feel better to dodge the charge if they just made the body the hitbox.
thing with how FS devs add hitboxes to models is they dont adjust to model shape completely, they are big cilinders or spheres from one point to another. This indeed makes those hitboxes to cover empty spaces in between the model dummy polies, and thats mainly why players feel they are wronly placed.
No hit boxes in any game comply exactly to the model. Collision detection is costly on system resources so all collision is handled through simple shapes that are applied to the player or enemy object. This one seems pretty ridiculous though, if they reduced the size of that big capsule by even 5% I think it would feel completely fine
@@SoHawful true that, although there are a few enemies attacks in ER that have pretty ridiculous hitbox capsules, and would have felt more balanced if they didnt oversimplified them and made them fit better to enemy model
Just git gud
idk how else to explain it but there's something up with this boss. Some times but not others I would hit him and it would hit twice, as if he and the boar were different entities. I would also notice I would randomly take double damage on the charge attack and could never replicate consistently or understand why
I'm pretty sure I've taken double damage on the kick when standing behind, not sure if bug or intentional and it's hard to tell even in slomo if it's meant to hit twice
I think it due to the hit box on the belly, idk either. Also I guessing cause it moving maybe we get hit multiple times so it calculates it all at once. This video has shown it not massive hit box but something to do with how the registration goes.
Cause I also had times where I get hit and take some dmg. And get hit by the same charge and lose way more like double. Glad to see video finally giving some answers.
The back kick absolutely hits twice. I fought him with the deflecting hardtear and when I deflected the kick there were always 2 impacts.
Copium
I've fought this guy many times (several characters of my own and also helping folks) and I've noticed the same. Sometimes the back kick and the charge attacks do about twice damage or so.
I haven't had any issues with hitboxes in ER but something is definitely wrong with those two moves. The damage received is inconsistent at times.
Show on med roll
Right? They always show dodges with light roll on a level 249 every stat build 😂
I knew that the charge hit box had some form of extra stuff to it, but this is one of those instances where you have to dodge to the side instead of dodging into the move itself.
Once I learned that, the charge wasn't that bad.
I've had the opposite happen tho. I would almost always get hit if I dared try to dodge to the side instead of right through him.
Not only is that hitbox bad(it extends outside of the hooves), but the way the charge tracks you too. He steers towards you. So the best option is to dodge to the side from a standstill or run one direction and switch directions right before dodging to the other side. The latter being really tricky timing.
I see now why my attempts to counter roll the charge always failed and why spacing and evasion were better. Full length hitbox. I figured it'd be on the front and I could slide past it and still be in a good striking spot. Spent ages trying to do that.
Thought so. The worst thing I faced with commander Guias was a belly slam attack hitting me twice, despite the second hit triggering during recovery, eating 2/3rds of my 60 vigor quickly. If I was to guess why based on what this video shows, it may have been both the front tube-like hitbox, and the second at the feet, triggering one after another.
Counter damage sucks
Yeah a lot of the attacks seem to double hit. Same with charge half the time it does a tiny bit of damage, half the time it wipes my health out
This feels like catching a ghost on camera
Tbh I fought this boss on Torrent and never had too much of a problem.
This game would look so beautiful with a wider fov like this. Wish From Software would allow for changes like this. Look how amazing this looks.
I personally summon torrent and run the f away from that charge, double jumping at the last moment. Works more often than trying to dodge it
This video actually confirmed my suspicions about the charge hotbox being inconsistent. I’m seeing disingenuous comments.
The boar charge has horizontal tracking. If you dodge left and forward-which you have to because the hog can turn-the boar body is too wide and long backwards. I don’t see a hit box on the legs themselves, but because the body box extends just barely too far back and wide, that’s something you can get hit by because the hog will start steering wherever you’ve rolled *when* you roll, and not after it. The tusk cylinders extend just barely further than the model, too, making the tight timing deceptively earlier than expected. “Expected” meaning you can press the button before the model of the tusks hit you and expect to dodge in time for the signal to register.
The second charge shown off is deceptive-he won’t stop the charge and 180 every time you roll it. He can keep going after you’ve dodged. The problematic body box remains. Making the charge the only dlc attack I can think of, outside of Senessax and the last boss, with an inconsistent dodge time due to its tightness. It’s like the hippo grab without being a grab.
This confirms to me that the charge is weird. Also the mule kick is a double hit. Was wondering that. Looking forward to fighting him again soon, though I hope the charge gets a shared hit list or something.
can we get one for dancing lion? A friend of mine is convinced it's bugged and I just wanna see what they're struggling with
Yup, I'm gonna upload one tomorrow for the Dancing Lion!
@@bigyiggaming awesome, thanks!
@@bigyiggaming If you're okay, then Metyr too? cuz...
Well we know the reason lol
@justanenglishcommentpassin644 lol, yeah, definitely. Even though it's a cool looking fight, Metyr has one of the worst attacks in the game.
@@bigyiggaming thank you!
This boss actually looks like an insanely fun challenge. I haven't played the game, so I obviously cannot judge, though I have seen an awful lot of badly timed dodges from players being immediately blamed on "hitbox inconsistency". Of course I get that he's absolutely relentless and the charge is so quick that timing will be very difficult.
Would love to try him even if just for the sake of curiosity 🙂 (hell, I might quickly change my tune...)
Medium roll is hard mode in the dlc.
yea this is about what i expected, doesn't stick out ahead of the boar during the charge at all if you include the tusks
It does, though. Look at 4:16. The body box extends into the space between the tusks, which is where you expect your player to be in the last moment before the dodge. The length of the box isn’t the chief issue though-it’s the width. The boar can steer during the charge, and the box extends further out sideways than the actual body-so when you dodge forward and to the left or right, as you must do to avoid the steering tracking, it won’t always work.
The box extends into the empty space you will occupy at the end of the forward-and-side medium roll you are expected to perform.
Not to mention the tusk boxes themselves stick out just *barely* longer than the actual model.
It’s just the charge. It can be easily dealt with using Raptor of the Mists, but the medium roll you have to perform is categorically inconsistent. This video shows it. In the 4:16 example you can even see the player’s box rub up against the side of the boar’s body box. That’s a roll that will hit *sometimes* because the barely-different timings and direction will be seen as doing the same roll. If you are visually doing the same roll and having it only sometimes succeed-as we see here-that is what inconsistency is. The roll needs like less than like eight degrees of leeway, and like two in-game inches shaved off the tusk box and body box lengths, but it still needs it. It’s literally *barely* within the bounds of that “inconsistent” threshold.
It’s actually amazing to *me* that I’m seeing all these “it’s right there! The lack of problem is visible!” and I’m pointing to the same thing going “what do you mean? The problem *is* right there and you can see it”
@@Zythryl yeah fair enough lol, it does stick out very slightly but not enough that it's that big a deal, i think the tusks being far apart but still having a hitbox between them might be throwing people off (even though i feel it makes sense)
These hitboxes seem fine to me tbh
The charge has a weird sphere sticking out under the boars belly that's probably clipping people when they roll past it
Ok, now this IS helpful but I think I’m going to need some actual words in this video because it hasn’t quite explained everything.
I still have no idea how i beat this guy lol
Very cool boss with perfectly fine hitboxes. Can't wait to fight him again on my next playthrough 😊
gg
This is the boss people are complaining most about? What's wrong with it?
The charge attack which is a fucking lottery
@@Cathart1cgenuine skill issue.
@@Cathart1c personally never got hit by it, strafe and roll to the side, saw other lets players dodge it like this too. Can Blinkbolt through it as well if you happen to be using it so I’d imagine BHS works too. Idk this is a hell of a lot of hate for just one supposedly janky move, which makes even less sense now seeing that there is no hitbox behind the pig
Theres no excuse anymore. The redditors were wrong, but they'll never admit it. I've just been waiting for a video like this to come out.
I don't think at least for me it was never the hit boxes itself. It was that the pig still tracks/turns when you dodge. This would keep the body hit box on you just long enough to to hit you at the end of the roll.
And i think the only time it's a true issue is the first charge after dying where you start stationary on the stairs and he starts much closer. Which is why people are using getting on torrent to dodge it and not just rolling it
Why do the devs make hitboxes larger than the models
Thats all the games , Even non Fromsoftware ones
Everyone talking about the boar hitbox but HOW DID 0:59 MISS
Rolled at the very last moment before the attack connected. Hell, you can even strafe around the last two hits with a sprint, which is a nice, free charged R2 or charged spell. The fight's underrated
@@user-pn4px5lr8w Not the boss missing, the stab from the player. The sword is literally inside Gaius but there isn't any hit sound.
I was genuinely perplexed to discover that people were having difficulty with this. Looking here the hitboxes seem fine. I still don’t get it. People were comparing this to bed of chaos.
It kinda goes to show that people don’t know what they’re talking about when it comes to hitboxes.
More people should be calling out the design of the attacks instead. As well as glitches they experience.
Some of these hitboxes are just bad even when visualized in slowmo. Also while the hitboxes are accurate, when game speed is slowed down the game tends to act weird sometimes. Note: slowed game speed is way different from slowed footage, which this video is not. You can see some moments in this gameplay alone where they shouldve gotten hit but slowed game speed(and light roll) saved them, or even the projectile that moves while pulling you in didnt even move at all. And you can clearly see that the charging attack can hit multiple times resulting in a "1 shot." Giaus is just not a fun fight, with not great hitboxes and aside from duo Gargoyle is the worst fight in the game IMO. I respect anyone who likes the fight, power to you, you found a way to enjoy it. But me and all my friends played solo the first time for everyboss except Giaus, we had to summon eachother cause we just werent happy.
Except the problems with the charge are still right there, now visualized. That body box and tusk boxes isn’t right.
For me, i know it's not the hitboxes, it's the model collision from the tusks turning the charge into a 3 hit combo if you get hit by the middle like i do, if they change it so it tosses you to the side and prone, it wouldn't do thag
I don't think this 1 counts, likely most Fought Gauis pre-patch, you can tell from where he starts