22:40 workaround: load a Vst in Live, press config and scroll through a few presets. Boom: every mappable parameter now becomes available. And for those of you who know their options.txt: there's an auto-populate parameters option that can be set which does exactly that. Does not work with every VST, but for about 95% of them, this should work. Nice comparison!
Push 2 does have a mod wheel function and pitch bend function. If you press the select button and touch the touch strip it will change to mod wheel with no snap to the middle. Do the same select/tap the touch strip to change back to pitch bend.
Learning with Mark Warren warren I think you should keep making videos, because I sense that you are a very knowledgeable person. I find your videos very interesting
Gotta give it to musicians for being the biggest bunch of haters on Earth. Dude does an awesome 30 minute side-by-side comparison... and people still get on here and bitch without even seeing the video and without contributing anything themselves. Great video, Loopop. Thanks so much. Keep em comin!
Haven't yet commented on this video, even though I've seen it a bunch of times. I've owned and used all Maschines since 2009. I think the controllers are all dope, and insanely useful, especially with the Controller Editor software, which allow Maschine to be used with different DAWs (most useful, I've found, is Reaper, since nearly all functions in Reaper can be mapped to keyboard or midi shortcuts, via the Actions menu). Outside of using the controller as a generic midi controller, and using Maschine standalone, or as a plugin inside a DAW (including Ableton)... it's hard to ignore the fact that browsing for sounds is EASY and quick (much quicker than the Push 2 browser, even 4 years after its release), drumkit quality is really high (in the Maschine library), and chopping samples is VERY fast)... ALL of the Maschines (except maybe Mikro) take 1st place, there, with those things. I have used Push 2 for the past 2 months with Ableton Live Lite. I'm not sold on it, yet. I like it in a lot of ways, but hate it in a lot of ways. I HATE how dark the screen is, when just using usb power. MK3 BLOWS it away, as far as brightness and contrast, goes. Also, there's lag with Push 2. A lot of lag, sometimes. Maschine 2 is instantaneous, with almost every function. I have lag with Push 2, especially when in a Drum Rack or Simpler, showing the waveform, or drawing the waveform when switching tracks or sounds. Re: Live.... I feel that Live is most useful in Session View, for performance and idea-making (which was Ableton's initial intention, with Live 1.0)..... yes, Arrangement View is still superb for fleshing out complete tracks (WAY better than Maschine standalone, that's for sure). But, Push 2 doesn't offer any type of Arrangement View benefits... none. It's all mouse, there. And that is a major oversight. I think the Novation Launchpad Pro or Maschine Jam (using the Ableton script, or better yet, Haxor and Roxor's Ableton script) do most of what Push 2 does best, even without screens... namely-- clip-launching, scale mode (and easily transposing octaves / semitones), and the corner drum grid (or better yet, 4 different Drum Racks, using the 8x8 grid). Ableton excels, there. Device-tweaking is cool, with Push's screens and encoders, of course... that's pretty much the main selling point of Push 2, I feel.... device control, and the colors that match each track. Step-sequencing is a ton of fun (Maschine Jam with the Ableton script is great, here as well)... or, Launchpad Pro with the LP Pro 95 free script (velocity sensitivity!).... but, in my humble opinion... is step-sequencing THAT important? It's more fun tapping the beat in yourself, and playing with melodies using the scale modes on a pad... even with your eyes closed. And if you have even the most basic keyboard skills, playing melodies in using an actual piano-style layout is a lot of fun, too. But I feel that Beatstep Pro takes the fun cake, when it comes to step-sequencing and experimentation with random steps. I'm so on the fence with Push 2... I want to keep it but I find that I use the Launchpad Pro, Maschine Jam, and/or the new Launchpad X a lot more than I use the Push 2. A lot of people have said using the mouse with Ableton is still faster than Push 2, and I'd have to agree. The Maschine Studio and MK2 have SUPERB Ableton scripts (sadly the MK3 does not).. even buying a used Studio or MK2 can give you a lot of mileage with device control inside Ableton... maybe not as pretty as Push 2, but certainly just as useful. I don't know if people have considered combining a Maschine with an 8x8 grid like LP Pro, Jam or LPX (or even the LP Mini MK3) but for the price, it's hard to ignore the fact that you get a lot of great options with multiple controllers, vs. just one with Push 2. As far as generic midi control is concerned, though... as I said at the beginning of this comment-- Maschine and Controller Editor-- really gives you a LOT of awesome options, with other DAWs.... not just Ableton. Though, thanks to scripts like DrivenByMoss, you can use Push 2, Launchpad Pro, etc... with other DAWs like Reaper and Bitwig. So you're not totally tied to using Ableton. Also, there's a $20 Push 2 script that allows it to be used with any DAW (scale modes, drum grid, etc. etc), and that's really nice, too. I really think Push 3 will be the best of the best... but I think I need to return Push 2. As far as my Maschine MK2, Studio, and MK3 go, they're mainstays in the studio. As always Loopop, a superb comparison. Sorry for the long-winded comment, but my head is always spinning in 50 different directions when it comes to midi controllers and DAW workflow... so many options, so many ways to get the jobs done. Ultimately, it's a great time for us home studio people.
This Max for Live device adds Arrangement View functionality to Push 2. It was a game changer for me since I live mostly in that view. Check it out: gumroad.com/valiumdupeuple?recommended_by=library#KUTUz
This is great info Chris. I've used various scripts for my Mk1 to map to Ableton, but nothing has stuck. At the end of the day, the reason I'm even considering a Push is because I really would like hardware control over all my Live device and plugin parameters. I'd be thrilled to buy a Push device that was only the display, the encoders, and the buttons (no pads) - similar form factor as the BeatStep Pro.
chriscauldermusic Interesting comment, as I've been wondering whether Ableton (and hence a Push 2) would benefit me more than my current Maschine Studio + Jam. I don't think the Push 2 can compete with that combo, for me at least. But I do miss some stuff in the Maschine software: - PDC. Plugin Delay Compensation. I find it SO odd that NI haven't implemented that. But perhaps it's to keep Maschine responsive at all times. PDC would mess with that workflow. So perhaps they're like "plugins shouldn't ever really have any latency"...? - The Audio module still lacks lots of important editing and playback options. This really is a big issue for me. F.e: it will loop the audio. It cannot NOT loop, but simply play the sound once. Problematic because, if the loop is just ever so slightly too short, it will cause a flam-like premature restart of the loop when the pattern repeats. And there's no grid in the editor to help one edit the loop to the 100% correct length (for that BPM). Still, overall, Maschine is an amazing creative platform - the devices, especially the Jam, are so creative and fun to play with.
@@roodegar Interesting thought, I have been looking at it for a while, reading the manual but it seems to be that it is just a bunch of shortcut mapped to different button on the Push. If I worked on Arrangement view, had my keyboard and mouse in front of me, why would I press a pad on the Push instead of Ctrl-C on my keyboard, which is way faster. I can't find any youtube video demo this M4L either. I would be great if you can share what is your workflow and how do you find this M4L help your work.
Excellent comment. So informed. People completely sleep on the Maschine's as MIDI controllers. I'm the Maschine dude and the first version of the software was so CPU sucking that I immediately went and programmed it as a MIDI controller for Reason, which was my girl at the time, just like you did with Reaper. I used two Maschine on stage for years and I literally never used the software live unless NI was paying me to play their office party, LOL! Then the software evolved to be less clunky and more useful for track production and, again you are correct, the drum sound bank is best in class. I'm personally getting back into it and Jam as sequencers for outboard gear; literally not using a single sound in Maschine at all, just running MIDI. And dude, it's fantastic for this! Obviously zero latency. But Maschine Studio with those 3 MIDI outputs? People totally slept on that just as I did. And now that I'm finally getting my hardware keyboards back plugged in I'm like, wow, this is so much more powerful than I recognized at the time. Blah blah, I'm like you and could go on and on, but again, great comment. Cheers to you, have a good one, whatever you are doing. And great video, of course, to the maker!
Excellent overview. As an owner of both, I constantly found myself nodding my head in agreement as you covered the similarities and differences of these two products. Both hardware controllers are very good quality, but I find Ableton SOFTWARE is more aligned to completing a whole track, while I struggle to do more than just short ideas/sections in the Maschine software. This has left me leaning toward just doing everything in Ableton start to finish. Running Maschine as a VST inside Ableton is possible, but more work than if I just do it all in Ableton natively. The ability to enter melodic parts with the 64 pads is great once you get used to it, while with Maschine I still go back to using a keyboard with it due to its 16 pads not providing enough notes. Also of note is third party plug in support with Maschine can be very limited as the developer must create a version of their product that supports the NKS standard, and then you have to have that new version installed, else browsing for instruments of a non-NKS synth is not supported well within Maschine. Do you have some third party banks of patches for your favorite synth? Great, they won't have instrument previews in Maschine, only the default patches from the manufacturer. Maschine does automap parameters, but it maps EVERYTHING and often in a way that is not how you want, forcing you to jump through pages of parameters (or use macro screen, which is essentially manually mapping again). With Push 2 I just map the few controls I do need access to during tweaking and performances, and leave them on one screen. Used older Maschine hardware is very inexpensive if you want to dip your toes in. In addition to the newer MK3 hardware, I still have a MK1 hardware kit that works fine (but does not have the mod strip feature).
Aaron S that said, Maschine is very fun and straightforward. I have never gotten into its advanced features though to be honest. It’s so quick to just layer groups. But then I also feel like I build stuff TOO fast. And like he said, it never feels complete. Although you can do an lot of Maschine.... but then I always feel like my work is stuck in there and I don’t “finish”. I mean to be honest, Maschine was originally a sampled drum controller. When I use it for just drums it actually feels the most comfortable! Whereas pulling out loops for the whole track feels wrong for some reason. I am eager to try Push 2. Got burnt buying push 1 right when 2 came out. 2 didn’t excite me that much until these Live 10 updates came out.
@@DarkOrchard1 you can record in stereo from any pair of mono inputs, you just have to set it up as a stereo pair in Live’s setup menu. Then it will be a stereo track recording with one volume fader. The interface is always mono inputs, unless you’re talking something like an rca pair of jacks in on a digital mixer or something, but that would still look like a pair of inputs to the computer.
With NKS Standard you can get sound previews and "see" the plugins and adjust pre-mapped configurations inside of the MK3. For those that do not adopt MK3 standard you can still click with the mouse. Which you would be doing anyways within Ableton. If anything, I jumped all-in with Machine and believe it will develop more into a full-fledged DAW overtime - it ultimately has almost all the functionalities you could want and introduces some new ideas in workflow ---- all that said, this video helped me see some of the benefits of Push 2 as well. It will come down to a preference. I use REAPER to mix and master my final productions, however learning to use Machine to enhance my workflow and that in combination with Komplete sound library (and the MK2) -- which work nicely together with the integration still make me see a lot of advantages of the MK3 over the Push 2. Looking forward to see what Push 3 has!
@@freddymatthewsmusic Hehe, no Push 3 yet, please! :). I just bought the Push 2... I don't want a repeat of buying Push 1 months before Push 2 came out. (and then being too stubborn to take the upgrade offer they put out there). With Maschine, I am just worries where they go will end up being too complicated... it's already getting pretty crazy the amount of things it can cater to. The whole Jam and Ideas concept though was essential and key to remaining relevant, in my workflow anyway. (that old way of sequencing was horrid!)
@@boothbuster Haha - fair enough for sure! :) Yes, I agree, the Machine workflow is a learning curve. I'm working on it now and I'm watching so many videos my head is about to explode lol. Even just adjusting to how the Ideas view is used to construct song ideas takes some getting used to when you are coming from a traditional DAW. I see now how important it can be to increasing workflow overall and is a brilliant way to construct songs. (I'm actually an acoustic guitar songwriter!) I'm hoping I can keep up myself. I will look more into the Jam - I'm also looking at Traktor! I could see how producing beats on the MK3 could translate into an easier and effective way to put together a DJ set. I'm hoping the hard work and overcoming this crazy learning curve will be worth it when I can maximize workflow, lay ideas and songs down easily. It's also a challenge watching the videos and then putting it into action. The process of understanding is there sometimes but then I just need to do it, and practice it. I guess the Machine is my new acoustic guitar haha. :) It is certainly an instrument in itself. :) CHEERS!!!
If you buy the push you get Ableton live lite, which gives you pianos, synths, fx libraries, samples, one shots etc. Both the lite sample library and komplete select are limited, but they both make it cheaper to upgrade to the next version so I think it’s an excellent inclusion in both cases
p jw YES. That’s the best combo in my opinion. Think about it. Imagine Ableton live suite with ALL its tools, combined with Omnisphere, Trillian, Keyscape, Komplete Production Suite, Exhale, Nexus and Serum? Not to mention getting vintage synths for $25 a month through splice... game over man
For me maschine it's more for composing beats/sketeches rather than full tracks. It's much easier to sounds tight on maschine for me. But Push2 it's more versatile and it's connecting composition stage with performance stage. So i have both :D i know it's expenssive and crazy but i always have problems with decision.
i have ab;leton push 1 and yes i love the series 1, for what i use it for, its great, and i have the maschine mk3, both ar e used verydiffrently, for me so ilove em both because i do very diffrent things with each instrument
Shannonbarnesdr1 would u recommend the use of a push or most likely for my case a maschine jam to use in conjunction with the maschine mk3? Never really seen the point I was more leaning toward a komplete kontrol mk2 maschine mk3 combo
well i play my ableton push when i ''play piano or guitar'' by itsdesign its perfect adaptive accessible synth.... so is all o these button grid based instruments, but id you are more of a tradttional keyboardplayer id go with the komplete kontrol, and a grid instrumetn like a mk3 or a mpc....but either one can be used it just depends on what you like and what feels most right toyou, do you wan to make beats and jams and tunes, and play accompany with other instruments? doyou like to sample or use samples ? but i do say, itskinda funny to compare ableton push OR native maschine because they boith use differetn software and have diffeentways to use and play them ;-)
You can certainly mix individual levels in a kit on Push 2. Had a little gear lust for the MK3 but now I see my Push 2 is much better for me. I already have what I need
Jack Spade bro he is only giving half the facts about ableton you can’t compare the two I own both and use both but ableton would mash maschine in a full comparison.
I think they both are fantastic but I personally like the Maschine better. I have the MK1 and I will be buying the MK3 as soon as it comes out along with the new Komplete Kontrol keyboard. Nice video.
One thing about the "automatic mapping" of plugin parameters to the NI hardware controllers (Maschine and Komplete Kontrol) that you were not completely clear about. It "just works" because the various vendors that support the NKS preset standard have done the mapping for you and created NKS presets for all of their plugins. If a plugin vendor doesn't support NKS themselves, you have to create the mappings manually. You can then save the mapping with an NKS preset, but you have to do that for EVERY preset on the plugin (or if you're designing your own presets, create a default preset with the NKS mapping done and always use that as your template). For this reason, that feature is obviously more compelling if you already own NKS compliant plugins or are interested in getting them in the future. This was my case, as I already owned NI Komplete and had been interested in the Arturia V Collection when NI introduced the Komplete Kontrol keyboard series a few years ago. It made total sense for me to continue with an ecosytem I was already invested in and really liked already. I got into Maschine through the Jam as it was significantly less expensive than the Maschine MkII at the time and while I'm not thrilled with every part of the Maschine workflow, it's pretty good as is and can be integrated into a larger DAW production workflow in a number of ways, there's a lot of flexibility there. So I went ahead and got the MKIII when it came out and combined with the Jam and Komplete Kontrol keyboard, you've got a really comprehensive control over the entire NI ecosystem. Ableton has always intrigued me, and I got a copy of the lite version somewhere or another, but I just never dug into learning it. Again, it just didn't seem necessary since I was already using Cubase (which has some integration with the Komplete Kontrol keyboards as well). So I think it really is kind of apples and oranges because you really can't separate the hardware from the software. If you are already invested in either software system and like it then of course the respective hardware controllers are what you should get. If you don't have either, then you cannot make a choice without evaluating what the software does and why you are buying the entire package. Having said that, you didn't really touch on automating parameters from the controllers. I'm not crazy about the way Maschine software handles it, and while the MKIII does give you a way to really simply record automation, things are a bit limited in the software. It's one of my bigger complaints about Maschine. But, one thing I do like is being able to easily write automation per-step from the controller, kinda sorta but not quite like Elektron parameter locking. Would be curious about how the Push handles that, and Ableton handles automation in general (my assumption is that it's way better and more comprehensive than Maschine if it competes with other full-fledged DAWs like Cubase). Your channel is great, btw, as mainly a guitarist I've learned so much about specific synth gear and synths in general and I' have used your videos as a resource several times in making purchase decisions (Hello MiniBrute 2S, skipped Model:Samples and went for the Digitakt instead, still weighing Korg Minilogue XD vs. Modal Argon 8)
You can actually select scenes to play AND record them into arrangement view from Push 2. Push shift and record to start recording in arrangement view.
I own both, and there's really nothing like having so many different creative ways to sequence. Yes the pitch thing in the MK3 isn't that fun, but the feel of those pads is better than anything else I've come across by a long shot, so much better to just play your sounds in and use the knobs to adjust them. I"ve owned/sold the Jam, and it feels like a cheap toy compared to both of them, and doesn't hold a candle to either when it comes to aesthetics. The portability, performance fx, and built-in interface on the MK3 really make it that much more of a no-brainer. On the other hand, it's a lot of fun to have 64 pads of samples (and lots more if you max out the drum rack and scroll thru them with the touch strip) when you're putting the finishing touches on a track. Plus the visuals on Wavetable and Echo, the new sequencer layout update, beat slicer, etc makes it completely impossible to consider giving it up. Of course that amounts to almost a grand sunk into midi controllers, but they should be the only ones you ever need, and are MUCH more fun/intuitive than the $100k Icon Pro Tools controller at my school imho :)
Great comparison! Might be worth revisiting again as the software has been updated. I'd say the biggest changes with Maschine is how they've changed the arrangement/ideas and previews of groups/samples. The main reason I chose Maschine over the push was that I could load the Maschine software into Virtual DJ like a VST. This allows for easy syncing with fully produced songs (MP3s, etc). The other reason was the "Link" mode which allows a DJ using Traktor to sync with someone else running the Maschine software across ethernet. Maschine definitely excels as beat/loop maker and I almost always end up moving things to another DAW to finalize the song. Over the last two years, this occurs less and less. Also, Maschine/Komplete Kontrol and Maschine Jam is a great combination.
excellent comparison and walkthrough! would have loved to see a bit on how they each record into ableton with the actual individual tracks per each sound/scene created and the ease of use
@@gotmilk3123 I can give you some insight. The P2 has better engineered hw; the Mk3 can suffer from different tonality between displays, additionally the knobs can be a little deformed which degrades smoothness of their rotation and the buttons are more clacky vs the P2's clicks. I believe Ableton selected a more capable Chinese partner to build their devices. If you want to hear about the sw, reply.
@@aloharay The Push 1 was made by Akai. But I think Ableton and Akai parted ways for the Push 2. Akai went on to make the Fruity Loops new controller. Akai's new girlfriend is no beauty queen and doesn't seem that well designed.
The most important point for me is actually the integration into Ableton. Maschine is no full DAW and arrangement compared to Ableton is a a total pain and doesn't offer as many possibilities. When using my Maschine with Ableton, I just use it to play in some notes / chords. Afterwards I have to bounce it to ableton or export the Midi and recreate the instrument. You can also create a project and map each Maschine Instrument to a channel in Ableton, but this takes some time to set up... Not really fun this way. Maybe there's a easier way that I still haven't found. Anyways I'm selling my Maschine and getting a Push now and would advise the same to any other Ableton user (from my point of view ofc)
Couple things I've noticed that need to be corrected in this video. First. The audio interface in the mk3 is an external audio interface. And will allow for low latency monitoring. So you could just use the maschine. It has a mic pre and line in. Also you can step sequence directly within the MK3, the MK2. As well as the MK1. You do not NEED the maschine jam to do hardware step sequencing.
I believe he was referring to being able to step sequence also with pitch selection like ableton push. obviously not possible because of limited number of buttons on maschine.
I agree that MK3 can do hard step sequencing, but not with 64 pads like the PUSH. This is why NI created Jam to work flawlessly with MK3. As a personal preference, I find it easier to sequence 4 bars (or more) using a 64 pad controller than a 16 pad controller.
Thank you so much for this comparison! Really in-depth and super-fast. I've got a Maschine Mk1 and have been contemplating the Push since the first version came out but I didn't even realize the shortcomings of the Arranger not being integrated and non-automatic Midi-mappings of the Push. This comparison really puts things into perspective and (already owning Ableton Live without the Push) I think I'm perfectly fine tagging along with my Mk1, especially seeing that NI are (albeit slowly) developing Arranger-improvements and Song-mode for the Maschine.
It would be nice to have a version 2 of this comparison in light of the comments and the most recent updates to the Push 2 integration (for example, midi clip editing). Also, Live automap parameters for plugins with less than 64 of them. In addition the mapping is consistent and it is applied on a plugin basis. Maschine parameter mapping works great only for NKS compatible plugins and it is saved at the preset level (which sucks) for non-NKS plugins.
these two devices should be compared because some people (like myself) are deciding which to buy. After watching this video I'm going with the push 2. I use Ableton and its controls for the whole daw is worth it to spend to extra 300. Great and comprehensive review thanks!!
Well ... true. But if you use Ableton anyway like I do... its still an interesting comparation for me. Aaannd... i like both.... I use Maschine Studio and Push 2. Obviously I could not decide 😂
Maschine software now allows you to add audio tracks to your arrangements. I know a lot of people in the past have said you can't write full tracks on maschine . This is no longer the case.
@@alecman95 learn how to write music then. that's like saying you can't write a song on a four track tape recorder. sure it's super limiting compared using a DAW, but it's doable. Ever heard of the band Animal Collective? They wrote an entire album using only samples, and they used the Roland SP 555 which is certainly more limiting than the Maschine.
"Maschine software now allows you to add audio tracks to your arrangements" -- does it?! I haven't seen anything like that in Maschine2; they are planning to roll out something like that soon, but as of yoday you can't add "independent audio clips" such as a voice track
Great video! I agree it's a fair comparison, looking at the composition and performance features of both devices. I have to say though, the fact that the Mk3 can be bus powered and actually remain usable is fantastic... And the icing on the cake has to be the built in audio and MIDI interface. I REALLY wish push had a built in audio and MIDI interface! Both are definitely great pieces of kit - I've got a Push 2, and love it, so probably wouldn't get the Maschine Mk3... But if I didn't already have push, then it would be a tough decision... I Love your videos man... Keep up the good work!
i play my ableton push 1 powered by usb on my surface pro,, same for y maschine, i can jam almost anywhere, with a battery powered speaker my surface pro and my instruments
Push 2 having super low light without power is a feature I actually enjoy. When im in a darker room its nice to let my eyes rest a little from the harsh leds. I use a power bank to power it so i never really have an issue lighting when i need it. Also agree I really wish push 2 had audio interface but its also easy if you get a cheap portable audio interface for what you need and use it separately. Heres to push 3 having some sort of audio over midi features!
Bought Maschine after watching this video almost a year ago, very happy with it so far, I completely switched making music from Logic to Maschine, use Logic only for final mixing. Thanks!
if you don't mindd my asking, are you still on that combo? Workflow wise, are you arranging in Maschine? Or stemming out to arrange in Logic? I'm on LPX debating between buying a Maschine or a Launchpad Pro Mk3 (I know they are different kinds of devices, both would be very helpful tho for me making hip hop beats mainly) - so would appreciate your take.
@@offTheMedsYe Yeah, I'm still using Maschine for production and Logic just for mixing. I mainly use Native Instruments plugins so for me it made perfect sense to choose Maschine over other workstations. Workflow wise using Maschine as a DAW is definitely more time consuming than just using your mouse in Logic but you get a different feel with a proper controller. I doubt your will produce better music but the process should be more enjoyable overall. Make sure you have a decent computer because Maschine is not as efficient as Logic is handling heavy projects.
About lock/snapshot, let me say it's a very useful feature from the Maschine MK3. PUSH 2 is not able to do something like that out of the box, but there's a M4L device, you can find it here www.ableton.com/en/packs/kapture/.
KAME locks has been around for ages on maschine but yeah, it's very cool, maybe with luck they will implement it across groups as well as the master, imagine that
Loving this review which has revealed things about both devices which i didn't know was possible. Just to add since this review the Maschine has continued to evolve. Version 2.12.0 sept 2020 now has what's called Clips for its song mode. This allows you to add and move tracks which can extend pass the normal limits of the pattern. This means you could have vocal tracks which play the length of an arrangement. This allows you to build songs from start to finish, in what equates to the Ableton's arrangment view.
Re third party vsts in ableton... it’s totally worthwhile racking instruments and mapping params in chains, when doing up a track, or as a separate exercise.. you build up a bank of great instruments. Defining parameter ranges etc. You build up instruments that are your own. And these are relatively easily selectable from the push browser.
Great comparison, probably the best I have ever seen about Maschine vs Push. 👍🏽 To change to mod strip in Push2 hold "Select" and touch the strip, it becomes a modwheel and no longer jumps to center.
Great comparison!! I bought an Maschine Jam and a second hand Maschine Studio. It gives me best of both worlds. The new Maschine Jam gave me Komplete Select, Maschine software and Ableton Lite licenses. The Maschine Studio gave me a perfect controller to setup a song in Maschine and it has a good Ableton template. I sync Ableton Lite using MTC to add audio tracks to Maschine. The Jam controller gives me all the step sequencing features I need in Maschine. And it's a great Ableton controller too using it's Ableton template. For less than 600 euro's for both a new Maschine Jam and a second hand Maschine Studio I've a great producing setup which controls both Maschine and Ableton.
One thing that has attracted me to the Maschine MK3 over Push 2 is NKS, especially since Arturia has adopted the NKS standard. Issue I've had with the Push 2 + Ableton is that I can't scroll through 3rd party VST presets or have a menu system where I can pick a synth, then filter down to what I want sound-wise exactly. With Ableton I can only do that with built in instruments or otherwise have to do a tedious manual save as instrument for thousands of presets across all my 3rd party VSTs. Being able to find the sound you want quickly and move forward is crucial for making music.
Personally speaking. The maschine has the best workflow to just sit down and start making beats. The new idea function makes it easier to test arrangements.
Really great video. I've been thinking about adding the MMK3 to my life ever since I heard about it's released a week ago. I currently use the Push 2, and I think your comparison was spot on and will really help those that are thinking about one or the other and what fits for them. I feel it really comes down to workflow and how you want to accomplish that. One minor thing (and it's really minor), is that I think you can increase the brightness of the Push 2 by clicking the setup button. Not sure if the dimness/brightness level you saw on your Push was the default level. I use mine in bed when I can't get to sleep, and even without the power supply, I never really have a problem with it. Thanks again for the great video.
Christopher Craig thanks very much for your comment. Yes, I am familiar with the brightness setting on Push 2 and mine was on 100%. Btw if they weren’t side by side Push 2 looks great with external power. It’s on USB power that it becomes very hard to see anything
There's one more trick I can recommend for Push, there's a max for live Plugin called "Expressin Control", you can use it to map the modwheel and/or pitch, velocity etc. to what ever you want in live. You can use it to get a similar thing to Maschines touch fx, by mapping the modwheel to an effect.
Thank you! I'm a new songwriter, learning production in Ableton 11 lite and am researching upgrades for my workstation. This laid out most of the features I was concerned with (primarily the piano roll and drum rack) in a useful and easy to understand comparison. I really appreciate the work you put into this video. I really like the features of Push 2, and knowing the (very few) drawbacks of the hardware ahead of time will help me overcome the issues. Great work!
One more thing ^^, if you hold select on the push2 and tap the touchstrip it will change to a modwheel. If you like the Parameter Locks of Maschine I recommend you to look at PP-Labs, its a Max for live collection which brings this feature to live, but sadly it does not support to morph between them, so Maschine still is the winner here^^. Oh and take a look at Abletons Options.txt you can set up Ableton to automatically show the VST parameters, and there's Preditor (Max for live) which allows you to make deep mappings for VST's, like Ableton's native stuff.
You're welcome. By the way did you trie to use Maschine in a drum rack inside of Ableton? It's a strong combination and you get the best of both worlds.
I have Push, Maschine and the Ren. In my opinion Push is superior. Especially sample chops and time stretching. I do like the drum programming in the Ren better and the chord feature and the effects in Maschine though. That's why I use them all combined. Sucks but until I get better at drum programming in ableton I'm using the bundle.
Great comparison. I've owned a Mk1 for years, but I spend the majority of my time in Live. In-fact, I typically run Maschine as a VST inside Live. That being said, I've been thinking about updating my Maschine to a Mk3 because it really seems to be a significant improvement to the Mk1, although, since most of my workflow is in Live (outside of the Maschine VST), I wonder if a Push might be the better addition to my setup. I'm also a bit concerned about the state of affairs at Native Instruments. NAMM 2020 is coming in up a few weeks - I'll probably wait to see if there are any new offerings from either company before pulling the trigger. Keep up the great videos!
Thanks for such a comparative review. Is there any chance that you might do one in the future regarding Komplete Kontrol MK2 vs Akai Advance or M-Audio CTRL49 and their related software/utilities?
You can mix each individual part on Push, too. You need to use a drum rack (if you use one instance of simpler with multibel slices you can easily, convert it to a drum rack by pressing "Convert") and now you need to double tap the drumrack in the mixer view to open it, so now you see each cell of the drum rack as an individual mixer track.
yeah. i was about to add, on the push 2 you can enter the drumkit at the device level to see the individual elements of kit and make adjustments at that level.
If it has not already been mentioned Isotonik PrEditor allows you to customize how synth and effect parameters display on a Push 1 and 2. This includes all built in Ableton synths and effects and third party VSTs. It can be a highly effective way for Ableton users to customize the order of parameters, their label names, and how it appears on a Push.
This is pretty correct comparison. For me as a buyer I would count them both as controllers for their own DAWs. They are not standalone, they both have own DAW.
This is such a great video. Well explained without any of the "Uhhhs" and "Ummmm" that usually make the video a million times longer. Thank you so much for this.
24:30 The problem with this though is that it only is for plugins that support the Native Instruments eco system, and you have to page through them, and you can't change them. I tried using the Komplete Kontrol M32 to control my Axxess Arp Axxe emulation from GForce and each page controls a random knob on the synth and it's virtually impossible to understand what is being controlled where and it's a disaster.. I tried to find out how to control VCF cutoff and res for a bassline sound it was impossible.. cryptic names on each page and parameter name when you touch the knobs. With Ableton it doesn't matter which one you do.. And this is something that Kore did too (the thing that preceded Kontrol that NI discontinued) One of the best things about Kore was how easy it was to custom map knobs to parameters. but afaik you can't do that in Kontrol. and apparently not in Maschine either.
Push is a controller, Maschine is an instrument, and it shows... for example: locking device parameters during tweaking, using fixed velocity not only with drumpads but instruments as well, chords mode, the ability to set scales per group (Push can only set a scale for all tracks) and of course... the build in audio & midi interface. Push is used to control Live which in its turn is used to make music. Maschine is used... to make music. Here's a noodle: try triggering sounds using only the Maschine software but without a controller... Push + Maschine otoh is a major killer combo.
Thank you for all comprehensive Reviews. And in this special one. Can the Maschine mk3 arrange song mode of different time signiture in the same song?! Polyrhythms and polymeter !!
I think Maschine is more creative way to do everything not spending a lot of money, cause many of the features/plugins/sounds tightly linked with controller (Reaktor, Massive, Monark...). It very similar to Maschine+ workflow but you just should enable a PC/Mac for sync. Also Maschine works as a soundcard & have different outputs/inputs to connect devices. With Maschine you just doing a music without distraction on DAW on PC/Mac at all. But another point of view - Push 2 has a lot of pads so it can work like a piano & many who don't know piano keyboard layout can use Push 2 pads very easy. Also switching harmonics & showing non-harmonics pads looks cool feature, but again, I think it will be convenient only for people without piano background, as a pianist I feel uncomfortable with pads playing cause you just trying to guess, not play the certain notes :) It looks confusing, In my opinion Ableton Push 2 looks like a "DAW mapper", not a fully "DAW controller" cause it can't control all features that Ableton provides including convenient plugin controlling. That's why I'd rather buy Maschine with MIDI controller like Arturia Keystep/NI Komplete Kontrol.
An important detail: Native Instruments doesn’t give any support in the forum and it doesn’t have any email that we can get in touch with them anymore. Theres a know bug between Komplete s61 and Maschine micro mk3 and they simply don’t care about it.
@Defectiveresistor Portugal, but there's people all over the world complaining about this. Check out this thread as an example: www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/ableton-host-integration-not-working-with-komplete-maschine.406705/page-2#post-1971521
Damn, the amount of work that must have been put into this video to compare these two beasts. Respect man, I always love your video quality!
22:40 workaround: load a Vst in Live, press config and scroll through a few presets. Boom: every mappable parameter now becomes available. And for those of you who know their options.txt: there's an auto-populate parameters option that can be set which does exactly that. Does not work with every VST, but for about 95% of them, this should work. Nice comparison!
Push 2 does have a mod wheel function and pitch bend function. If you press the select button and touch the touch strip it will change to mod wheel with no snap to the middle. Do the same select/tap the touch strip to change back to pitch bend.
Learning with Mark Warren thanks for this - added a comment to the clip and description and gave you credit too ;)
Learning with Mark Warren warren I think you should keep making videos, because I sense that you are a very knowledgeable person. I find your videos very interesting
With pxt-live you can use the touch strip for any parameter, not to mention that it just about doubles push's functionality.
Gotta give it to musicians for being the biggest bunch of haters on Earth. Dude does an awesome 30 minute side-by-side comparison... and people still get on here and bitch without even seeing the video and without contributing anything themselves.
Great video, Loopop. Thanks so much. Keep em comin!
agreed :-) hating just to prove you know something, has unfortunately become a thing on social media.
Crying about people crying is a thing a too lmao
Dude that's people for ya it's never going to change IGNORANCE IS BLISS 🤦🏾♂️
Shut up I didn’t read your comment but it was annoying and it sucked do better
Whitt ington I’m sorry do not understand because I do not read words, it is a waste of time
You CAN mix individual instruments in a drumrack. Just press the button under the drumrack to expand it into it's components. Very handy!
everything else aside, huge respect to the work and effort put into this video, comparing these 2 mega machines. grateful!
Haven't yet commented on this video, even though I've seen it a bunch of times.
I've owned and used all Maschines since 2009. I think the controllers are all dope, and insanely useful, especially with the Controller Editor software, which allow Maschine to be used with different DAWs (most useful, I've found, is Reaper, since nearly all functions in Reaper can be mapped to keyboard or midi shortcuts, via the Actions menu). Outside of using the controller as a generic midi controller, and using Maschine standalone, or as a plugin inside a DAW (including Ableton)... it's hard to ignore the fact that browsing for sounds is EASY and quick (much quicker than the Push 2 browser, even 4 years after its release), drumkit quality is really high (in the Maschine library), and chopping samples is VERY fast)... ALL of the Maschines (except maybe Mikro) take 1st place, there, with those things.
I have used Push 2 for the past 2 months with Ableton Live Lite. I'm not sold on it, yet. I like it in a lot of ways, but hate it in a lot of ways. I HATE how dark the screen is, when just using usb power. MK3 BLOWS it away, as far as brightness and contrast, goes. Also, there's lag with Push 2. A lot of lag, sometimes. Maschine 2 is instantaneous, with almost every function. I have lag with Push 2, especially when in a Drum Rack or Simpler, showing the waveform, or drawing the waveform when switching tracks or sounds.
Re: Live.... I feel that Live is most useful in Session View, for performance and idea-making (which was Ableton's initial intention, with Live 1.0)..... yes, Arrangement View is still superb for fleshing out complete tracks (WAY better than Maschine standalone, that's for sure). But, Push 2 doesn't offer any type of Arrangement View benefits... none. It's all mouse, there. And that is a major oversight.
I think the Novation Launchpad Pro or Maschine Jam (using the Ableton script, or better yet, Haxor and Roxor's Ableton script) do most of what Push 2 does best, even without screens... namely-- clip-launching, scale mode (and easily transposing octaves / semitones), and the corner drum grid (or better yet, 4 different Drum Racks, using the 8x8 grid). Ableton excels, there. Device-tweaking is cool, with Push's screens and encoders, of course... that's pretty much the main selling point of Push 2, I feel.... device control, and the colors that match each track.
Step-sequencing is a ton of fun (Maschine Jam with the Ableton script is great, here as well)... or, Launchpad Pro with the LP Pro 95 free script (velocity sensitivity!).... but, in my humble opinion... is step-sequencing THAT important? It's more fun tapping the beat in yourself, and playing with melodies using the scale modes on a pad... even with your eyes closed. And if you have even the most basic keyboard skills, playing melodies in using an actual piano-style layout is a lot of fun, too. But I feel that Beatstep Pro takes the fun cake, when it comes to step-sequencing and experimentation with random steps.
I'm so on the fence with Push 2... I want to keep it but I find that I use the Launchpad Pro, Maschine Jam, and/or the new Launchpad X a lot more than I use the Push 2. A lot of people have said using the mouse with Ableton is still faster than Push 2, and I'd have to agree. The Maschine Studio and MK2 have SUPERB Ableton scripts (sadly the MK3 does not).. even buying a used Studio or MK2 can give you a lot of mileage with device control inside Ableton... maybe not as pretty as Push 2, but certainly just as useful.
I don't know if people have considered combining a Maschine with an 8x8 grid like LP Pro, Jam or LPX (or even the LP Mini MK3) but for the price, it's hard to ignore the fact that you get a lot of great options with multiple controllers, vs. just one with Push 2.
As far as generic midi control is concerned, though... as I said at the beginning of this comment-- Maschine and Controller Editor-- really gives you a LOT of awesome options, with other DAWs.... not just Ableton. Though, thanks to scripts like DrivenByMoss, you can use Push 2, Launchpad Pro, etc... with other DAWs like Reaper and Bitwig. So you're not totally tied to using Ableton. Also, there's a $20 Push 2 script that allows it to be used with any DAW (scale modes, drum grid, etc. etc), and that's really nice, too.
I really think Push 3 will be the best of the best... but I think I need to return Push 2. As far as my Maschine MK2, Studio, and MK3 go, they're mainstays in the studio.
As always Loopop, a superb comparison. Sorry for the long-winded comment, but my head is always spinning in 50 different directions when it comes to midi controllers and DAW workflow... so many options, so many ways to get the jobs done. Ultimately, it's a great time for us home studio people.
This Max for Live device adds Arrangement View functionality to Push 2. It was a game changer for me since I live mostly in that view. Check it out: gumroad.com/valiumdupeuple?recommended_by=library#KUTUz
This is great info Chris. I've used various scripts for my Mk1 to map to Ableton, but nothing has stuck. At the end of the day, the reason I'm even considering a Push is because I really would like hardware control over all my Live device and plugin parameters. I'd be thrilled to buy a Push device that was only the display, the encoders, and the buttons (no pads) - similar form factor as the BeatStep Pro.
chriscauldermusic Interesting comment, as I've been wondering whether Ableton (and hence a Push 2) would benefit me more than my current Maschine Studio + Jam.
I don't think the Push 2 can compete with that combo, for me at least. But I do miss some stuff in the Maschine software:
- PDC. Plugin Delay Compensation. I find it SO odd that NI haven't implemented that. But perhaps it's to keep Maschine responsive at all times. PDC would mess with that workflow. So perhaps they're like "plugins shouldn't ever really have any latency"...?
- The Audio module still lacks lots of important editing and playback options. This really is a big issue for me. F.e: it will loop the audio. It cannot NOT loop, but simply play the sound once. Problematic because, if the loop is just ever so slightly too short, it will cause a flam-like premature restart of the loop when the pattern repeats. And there's no grid in the editor to help one edit the loop to the 100% correct length (for that BPM).
Still, overall, Maschine is an amazing creative platform - the devices, especially the Jam, are so creative and fun to play with.
@@roodegar Interesting thought, I have been looking at it for a while, reading the manual but it seems to be that it is just a bunch of shortcut mapped to different button on the Push. If I worked on Arrangement view, had my keyboard and mouse in front of me, why would I press a pad on the Push instead of Ctrl-C on my keyboard, which is way faster. I can't find any youtube video demo this M4L either. I would be great if you can share what is your workflow and how do you find this M4L help your work.
Excellent comment. So informed. People completely sleep on the Maschine's as MIDI controllers. I'm the Maschine dude and the first version of the software was so CPU sucking that I immediately went and programmed it as a MIDI controller for Reason, which was my girl at the time, just like you did with Reaper. I used two Maschine on stage for years and I literally never used the software live unless NI was paying me to play their office party, LOL! Then the software evolved to be less clunky and more useful for track production and, again you are correct, the drum sound bank is best in class. I'm personally getting back into it and Jam as sequencers for outboard gear; literally not using a single sound in Maschine at all, just running MIDI. And dude, it's fantastic for this! Obviously zero latency. But Maschine Studio with those 3 MIDI outputs? People totally slept on that just as I did. And now that I'm finally getting my hardware keyboards back plugged in I'm like, wow, this is so much more powerful than I recognized at the time. Blah blah, I'm like you and could go on and on, but again, great comment. Cheers to you, have a good one, whatever you are doing. And great video, of course, to the maker!
For someone who is familiar with each, but doesn’t own either, I found this to be extremely helpful. Thanks!
Excellent overview. As an owner of both, I constantly found myself nodding my head in agreement as you covered the similarities and differences of these two products. Both hardware controllers are very good quality, but I find Ableton SOFTWARE is more aligned to completing a whole track, while I struggle to do more than just short ideas/sections in the Maschine software. This has left me leaning toward just doing everything in Ableton start to finish. Running Maschine as a VST inside Ableton is possible, but more work than if I just do it all in Ableton natively. The ability to enter melodic parts with the 64 pads is great once you get used to it, while with Maschine I still go back to using a keyboard with it due to its 16 pads not providing enough notes. Also of note is third party plug in support with Maschine can be very limited as the developer must create a version of their product that supports the NKS standard, and then you have to have that new version installed, else browsing for instruments of a non-NKS synth is not supported well within Maschine. Do you have some third party banks of patches for your favorite synth? Great, they won't have instrument previews in Maschine, only the default patches from the manufacturer. Maschine does automap parameters, but it maps EVERYTHING and often in a way that is not how you want, forcing you to jump through pages of parameters (or use macro screen, which is essentially manually mapping again). With Push 2 I just map the few controls I do need access to during tweaking and performances, and leave them on one screen. Used older Maschine hardware is very inexpensive if you want to dip your toes in. In addition to the newer MK3 hardware, I still have a MK1 hardware kit that works fine (but does not have the mod strip feature).
Aaron S that said, Maschine is very fun and straightforward. I have never gotten into its advanced features though to be honest. It’s so quick to just layer groups. But then I also feel like I build stuff TOO fast. And like he said, it never feels complete. Although you can do an lot of Maschine.... but then I always feel like my work is stuck in there and I don’t “finish”. I mean to be honest, Maschine was originally a sampled drum controller. When I use it for just drums it actually feels the most comfortable! Whereas pulling out loops for the whole track feels wrong for some reason. I am eager to try Push 2. Got burnt buying push 1 right when 2 came out. 2 didn’t excite me that much until these Live 10 updates came out.
@@DarkOrchard1 you can record in stereo from any pair of mono inputs, you just have to set it up as a stereo pair in Live’s setup menu. Then it will be a stereo track recording with one volume fader. The interface is always mono inputs, unless you’re talking something like an rca pair of jacks in on a digital mixer or something, but that would still look like a pair of inputs to the computer.
With NKS Standard you can get sound previews and "see" the plugins and adjust pre-mapped configurations inside of the MK3. For those that do not adopt MK3 standard you can still click with the mouse. Which you would be doing anyways within Ableton. If anything, I jumped all-in with Machine and believe it will develop more into a full-fledged DAW overtime - it ultimately has almost all the functionalities you could want and introduces some new ideas in workflow ---- all that said, this video helped me see some of the benefits of Push 2 as well. It will come down to a preference. I use REAPER to mix and master my final productions, however learning to use Machine to enhance my workflow and that in combination with Komplete sound library (and the MK2) -- which work nicely together with the integration still make me see a lot of advantages of the MK3 over the Push 2. Looking forward to see what Push 3 has!
@@freddymatthewsmusic Hehe, no Push 3 yet, please! :). I just bought the Push 2... I don't want a repeat of buying Push 1 months before Push 2 came out. (and then being too stubborn to take the upgrade offer they put out there). With Maschine, I am just worries where they go will end up being too complicated... it's already getting pretty crazy the amount of things it can cater to. The whole Jam and Ideas concept though was essential and key to remaining relevant, in my workflow anyway. (that old way of sequencing was horrid!)
@@boothbuster Haha - fair enough for sure! :) Yes, I agree, the Machine workflow is a learning curve. I'm working on it now and I'm watching so many videos my head is about to explode lol. Even just adjusting to how the Ideas view is used to construct song ideas takes some getting used to when you are coming from a traditional DAW. I see now how important it can be to increasing workflow overall and is a brilliant way to construct songs. (I'm actually an acoustic guitar songwriter!) I'm hoping I can keep up myself.
I will look more into the Jam - I'm also looking at Traktor! I could see how producing beats on the MK3 could translate into an easier and effective way to put together a DJ set.
I'm hoping the hard work and overcoming this crazy learning curve will be worth it when I can maximize workflow, lay ideas and songs down easily. It's also a challenge watching the videos and then putting it into action. The process of understanding is there sometimes but then I just need to do it, and practice it. I guess the Machine is my new acoustic guitar haha. :) It is certainly an instrument in itself. :) CHEERS!!!
When comparing maschine mk3 you have to remember it comes with komplete 11 select so you get some great pro synths, pianos, fx libraireis etc
Stuck between Maschine MK3 and Akai MPC Live - which would you choose?
If you buy the push you get Ableton live lite, which gives you pianos, synths, fx libraries, samples, one shots etc. Both the lite sample library and komplete select are limited, but they both make it cheaper to upgrade to the next version so I think it’s an excellent inclusion in both cases
That's a fact I just bought the MK3 and it came with 25gbs worth of sounds right out the box and there quality sounds
@@Ben20171 tough choice dude what did you decide on
p jw YES. That’s the best combo in my opinion. Think about it. Imagine Ableton live suite with ALL its tools, combined with Omnisphere, Trillian, Keyscape, Komplete Production Suite, Exhale, Nexus and Serum? Not to mention getting vintage synths for $25 a month through splice... game over man
For me maschine it's more for composing beats/sketeches rather than full tracks. It's much easier to sounds tight on maschine for me. But Push2 it's more versatile and it's connecting composition stage with performance stage. So i have both :D i know it's expenssive and crazy but i always have problems with decision.
Damn youre so rich
U can make full songs on maschine with use of plugins within maschine import to any DAW to master and viola
i have ab;leton push 1 and yes i love the series 1, for what i use it for, its great, and i have the maschine mk3, both ar e used verydiffrently, for me so ilove em both because i do very diffrent things with each instrument
Shannonbarnesdr1 would u recommend the use of a push or most likely for my case a maschine jam to use in conjunction with the maschine mk3? Never really seen the point I was more leaning toward a komplete kontrol mk2 maschine mk3 combo
well i play my ableton push when i ''play piano or guitar'' by itsdesign its perfect adaptive accessible synth.... so is all o these button grid based instruments, but id you are more of a tradttional keyboardplayer id go with the komplete kontrol, and a grid instrumetn like a mk3 or a mpc....but either one can be used it just depends on what you like and what feels most right toyou, do you wan to make beats and jams and tunes, and play accompany with other instruments? doyou like to sample or use samples ? but i do say, itskinda funny to compare ableton push OR native maschine because they boith use differetn software and have diffeentways to use and play them ;-)
You can certainly mix individual levels in a kit on Push 2. Had a little gear lust for the MK3 but now I see my Push 2 is much better for me. I already have what I need
Jack Spade bro he is only giving half the facts about ableton you can’t compare the two I own both and use both but ableton would mash maschine in a full comparison.
@@adultgeeks3900 that's your opinion dumbass the world doesn't revolve around you
this is one of the best comparison videos on You Tube. Comprehensive yet easy to understand! Very practical, thank you very much for doing this.
I think they both are fantastic but I personally like the Maschine better. I have the MK1 and I will be buying the MK3 as soon as it comes out along with the new Komplete Kontrol keyboard. Nice video.
One thing about the "automatic mapping" of plugin parameters to the NI hardware controllers (Maschine and Komplete Kontrol) that you were not completely clear about. It "just works" because the various vendors that support the NKS preset standard have done the mapping for you and created NKS presets for all of their plugins. If a plugin vendor doesn't support NKS themselves, you have to create the mappings manually. You can then save the mapping with an NKS preset, but you have to do that for EVERY preset on the plugin (or if you're designing your own presets, create a default preset with the NKS mapping done and always use that as your template). For this reason, that feature is obviously more compelling if you already own NKS compliant plugins or are interested in getting them in the future.
This was my case, as I already owned NI Komplete and had been interested in the Arturia V Collection when NI introduced the Komplete Kontrol keyboard series a few years ago. It made total sense for me to continue with an ecosytem I was already invested in and really liked already. I got into Maschine through the Jam as it was significantly less expensive than the Maschine MkII at the time and while I'm not thrilled with every part of the Maschine workflow, it's pretty good as is and can be integrated into a larger DAW production workflow in a number of ways, there's a lot of flexibility there. So I went ahead and got the MKIII when it came out and combined with the Jam and Komplete Kontrol keyboard, you've got a really comprehensive control over the entire NI ecosystem.
Ableton has always intrigued me, and I got a copy of the lite version somewhere or another, but I just never dug into learning it. Again, it just didn't seem necessary since I was already using Cubase (which has some integration with the Komplete Kontrol keyboards as well). So I think it really is kind of apples and oranges because you really can't separate the hardware from the software. If you are already invested in either software system and like it then of course the respective hardware controllers are what you should get. If you don't have either, then you cannot make a choice without evaluating what the software does and why you are buying the entire package.
Having said that, you didn't really touch on automating parameters from the controllers. I'm not crazy about the way Maschine software handles it, and while the MKIII does give you a way to really simply record automation, things are a bit limited in the software. It's one of my bigger complaints about Maschine. But, one thing I do like is being able to easily write automation per-step from the controller, kinda sorta but not quite like Elektron parameter locking. Would be curious about how the Push handles that, and Ableton handles automation in general (my assumption is that it's way better and more comprehensive than Maschine if it competes with other full-fledged DAWs like Cubase).
Your channel is great, btw, as mainly a guitarist I've learned so much about specific synth gear and synths in general and I' have used your videos as a resource several times in making purchase decisions (Hello MiniBrute 2S, skipped Model:Samples and went for the Digitakt instead, still weighing Korg Minilogue XD vs. Modal Argon 8)
Great video, best breakdown of both machines I've seen so far.
You can actually select scenes to play AND record them into arrangement view from Push 2.
Push shift and record to start recording in arrangement view.
niiice :)
That was in 9. In 10 it's even more self evident as far as how to do it.
I own both, and there's really nothing like having so many different creative ways to sequence. Yes the pitch thing in the MK3 isn't that fun, but the feel of those pads is better than anything else I've come across by a long shot, so much better to just play your sounds in and use the knobs to adjust them. I"ve owned/sold the Jam, and it feels like a cheap toy compared to both of them, and doesn't hold a candle to either when it comes to aesthetics. The portability, performance fx, and built-in interface on the MK3 really make it that much more of a no-brainer. On the other hand, it's a lot of fun to have 64 pads of samples (and lots more if you max out the drum rack and scroll thru them with the touch strip) when you're putting the finishing touches on a track. Plus the visuals on Wavetable and Echo, the new sequencer layout update, beat slicer, etc makes it completely impossible to consider giving it up. Of course that amounts to almost a grand sunk into midi controllers, but they should be the only ones you ever need, and are MUCH more fun/intuitive than the $100k Icon Pro Tools controller at my school imho :)
Great comparison! Might be worth revisiting again as the software has been updated. I'd say the biggest changes with Maschine is how they've changed the arrangement/ideas and previews of groups/samples. The main reason I chose Maschine over the push was that I could load the Maschine software into Virtual DJ like a VST. This allows for easy syncing with fully produced songs (MP3s, etc). The other reason was the "Link" mode which allows a DJ using Traktor to sync with someone else running the Maschine software across ethernet. Maschine definitely excels as beat/loop maker and I almost always end up moving things to another DAW to finalize the song. Over the last two years, this occurs less and less. Also, Maschine/Komplete Kontrol and Maschine Jam is a great combination.
Just here to acknowledge the immense contribution youve made to the music community...cheers brother! 🙏
excellent comparison and walkthrough! would have loved to see a bit on how they each record into ableton with the actual individual tracks per each sound/scene created and the ease of use
both are companies from berlin lol (ableton was also founded by 2 former native instruments engineers)
VV VV what you recommend? I’m in the trap hip hop beats. I just left the AKAIMPK249&FLSTUDIO12 club
@@gotmilk3123 I can give you some insight. The P2 has better engineered hw; the Mk3 can suffer from different tonality between displays, additionally the knobs can be a little deformed which degrades smoothness of their rotation and the buttons are more clacky vs the P2's clicks. I believe Ableton selected a more capable Chinese partner to build their devices. If you want to hear about the sw, reply.
I think the Push 2 hardware is made by Akai
@@aloharay The Push 1 was made by Akai. But I think Ableton and Akai parted ways for the Push 2. Akai went on to make the Fruity Loops new controller. Akai's new girlfriend is no beauty queen and doesn't seem that well designed.
@@aloharay my guess is made by NI.
Touchstrip on Push2: Hold select and tap the touchstrip to switch it to modwheel!
This is such a useful comparison ! This is how a comparison video should look like
The most important point for me is actually the integration into Ableton. Maschine is no full DAW and arrangement compared to Ableton is a a total pain and doesn't offer as many possibilities. When using my Maschine with Ableton, I just use it to play in some notes / chords. Afterwards I have to bounce it to ableton or export the Midi and recreate the instrument. You can also create a project and map each Maschine Instrument to a channel in Ableton, but this takes some time to set up... Not really fun this way. Maybe there's a easier way that I still haven't found. Anyways I'm selling my Maschine and getting a Push now and would advise the same to any other Ableton user (from my point of view ofc)
Couple things I've noticed that need to be corrected in this video. First. The audio interface in the mk3 is an external audio interface. And will allow for low latency monitoring. So you could just use the maschine. It has a mic pre and line in. Also you can step sequence directly within the MK3, the MK2. As well as the MK1. You do not NEED the maschine jam to do hardware step sequencing.
You can also configure chords. But you'll need two or three groups to dedicate to it
That way you can add inversions and separate scales
I believe he was referring to being able to step sequence also with pitch selection like ableton push. obviously not possible because of limited number of buttons on maschine.
I agree that MK3 can do hard step sequencing, but not with 64 pads like the PUSH. This is why NI created Jam to work flawlessly with MK3. As a personal preference, I find it easier to sequence 4 bars (or more) using a 64 pad controller than a 16 pad controller.
This is the best comparison so far with detail explanation
Thank you so much for this comparison! Really in-depth and super-fast. I've got a Maschine Mk1 and have been contemplating the Push since the first version came out but I didn't even realize the shortcomings of the Arranger not being integrated and non-automatic Midi-mappings of the Push. This comparison really puts things into perspective and (already owning Ableton Live without the Push) I think I'm perfectly fine tagging along with my Mk1, especially seeing that NI are (albeit slowly) developing Arranger-improvements and Song-mode for the Maschine.
It would be nice to have a version 2 of this comparison in light of the comments and the most recent updates to the Push 2 integration (for example, midi clip editing). Also, Live automap parameters for plugins with less than 64 of them. In addition the mapping is consistent and it is applied on a plugin basis. Maschine parameter mapping works great only for NKS compatible plugins and it is saved at the preset level (which sucks) for non-NKS plugins.
these two devices should be compared because some people (like myself) are deciding which to buy. After watching this video I'm going with the push 2. I use Ableton and its controls for the whole daw is worth it to spend to extra 300. Great and comprehensive review thanks!!
Great video, very well explained and made, thanks. Cheers from Buenos Aires.
KAME same here from Paris 🗼 :)
Push can't be used in other daws, but you can use mk3 with maschine in every daw . this is the point.
Wait push cant be used eith anything except albeton??
@@YouGotOptions2 It can be used a simple midi controller (maybe more idk). But it's full potential is on Ableton.
Well ... true. But if you use Ableton anyway like I do... its still an interesting comparation for me. Aaannd... i like both.... I use Maschine Studio and Push 2. Obviously I could not decide 😂
Even with Fl Studio? I will buy soon an MK3 and i wanna be sure that no additional mapping is required.
why on earth would you wanna use the push for anything other than Ableton..?
8:40 Push 2 now also shows the pattern (MIDI clip) on its screen.
Thank you so mcuh for making this. Was really having a hard time choosing between the two.
Maschine software now allows you to add audio tracks to your arrangements. I know a lot of people in the past have said you can't write full tracks on maschine . This is no longer the case.
That doesn't help the slightest. Maschine is still a terrible device to make a full track on
@@alecman95 learn how to write music then. that's like saying you can't write a song on a four track tape recorder. sure it's super limiting compared using a DAW, but it's doable. Ever heard of the band Animal Collective? They wrote an entire album using only samples, and they used the Roland SP 555 which is certainly more limiting than the Maschine.
@@SuperSaiyanScandinavian Anybody who think maschine limits you must not fully understand what the software is capable of
@@alecman95 maybe with your shitty brain
"Maschine software now allows you to add audio tracks to your arrangements" -- does it?! I haven't seen anything like that in Maschine2; they are planning to roll out something like that soon, but as of yoday you can't add "independent audio clips" such as a voice track
Wow!! What a wonderful and detailed overview for both device. Thank you so much for saving a lot of time for people like me. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
I own the Maschine MK3 and just wanted to see a good comparison video. You delivered! Thanks for the work and effort you put into this video!
shout out to the table of contents on the side!
Great video! I agree it's a fair comparison, looking at the composition and performance features of both devices.
I have to say though, the fact that the Mk3 can be bus powered and actually remain usable is fantastic... And the icing on the cake has to be the built in audio and MIDI interface. I REALLY wish push had a built in audio and MIDI interface! Both are definitely great pieces of kit - I've got a Push 2, and love it, so probably wouldn't get the Maschine Mk3... But if I didn't already have push, then it would be a tough decision... I Love your videos man... Keep up the good work!
i play my ableton push 1 powered by usb on my surface pro,, same for y maschine, i can jam almost anywhere, with a battery powered speaker my surface pro and my instruments
Push 2 having super low light without power is a feature I actually enjoy. When im in a darker room its nice to let my eyes rest a little from the harsh leds. I use a power bank to power it so i never really have an issue lighting when i need it. Also agree I really wish push 2 had audio interface but its also easy if you get a cheap portable audio interface for what you need and use it separately. Heres to push 3 having some sort of audio over midi features!
@@Shannonbarnesdr1 fire i have the same setup lol
Bought Maschine after watching this video almost a year ago, very happy with it so far, I completely switched making music from Logic to Maschine, use Logic only for final mixing. Thanks!
if you don't mindd my asking, are you still on that combo? Workflow wise, are you arranging in Maschine? Or stemming out to arrange in Logic? I'm on LPX debating between buying a Maschine or a Launchpad Pro Mk3 (I know they are different kinds of devices, both would be very helpful tho for me making hip hop beats mainly) - so would appreciate your take.
@@offTheMedsYe Yeah, I'm still using Maschine for production and Logic just for mixing. I mainly use Native Instruments plugins so for me it made perfect sense to choose Maschine over other workstations. Workflow wise using Maschine as a DAW is definitely more time consuming than just using your mouse in Logic but you get a different feel with a proper controller. I doubt your will produce better music but the process should be more enjoyable overall. Make sure you have a decent computer because Maschine is not as efficient as Logic is handling heavy projects.
@@lost_valley thx for taking the time man, appreciated
everybody hating n' bitching here while i just love the fact that my Maschine MK3 has nice colorful glowing pads lmao
About lock/snapshot, let me say it's a very useful feature from the Maschine MK3. PUSH 2 is not able to do something like that out of the box, but there's a M4L device, you can find it here www.ableton.com/en/packs/kapture/.
Thanks for this comment. I was wondering about this. I like the idea of getting crazy and returning back.
KAME locks has been around for ages on maschine but yeah, it's very cool, maybe with luck they will implement it across groups as well as the master, imagine that
With any luck, Ableton will introduce this to the Push 2 with a software/firmware update. The hardware is definitely not the limiting factor.
Loving this review which has revealed things about both devices which i didn't know was possible.
Just to add since this review the Maschine has continued to evolve. Version 2.12.0 sept 2020 now has what's called Clips for its song mode. This allows you to add and move tracks which can extend pass the normal limits of the pattern. This means you could have vocal tracks which play the length of an arrangement. This allows you to build songs from start to finish, in what equates to the Ableton's arrangment view.
Thanks! Indeed Push 2 has evolved as well, but not yet with any sort of true arrangement functionality
Re third party vsts in ableton... it’s totally worthwhile racking instruments and mapping params in chains, when doing up a track, or as a separate exercise.. you build up a bank of great instruments. Defining parameter ranges etc. You build up instruments that are your own. And these are relatively easily selectable from the push browser.
That was amazing video, I finally know what I want to buy.
Thanks a lot for such a deep and detailed review! You are the best!
I AGREE!!!!
Thanks, that really highlighted all the important differences.
solution for VST in ableton: load VST, configure few parameters you often use, Right mouse button on VST control 'save as default configuration'.
Great comparison, probably the best I have ever seen about Maschine vs Push. 👍🏽
To change to mod strip in Push2 hold "Select" and touch the strip, it becomes a modwheel and no longer jumps to center.
D-One thanks very much! Yes, got the select tip in the other comments, I added that to the description as well as an annotation
If you want to have a song mode in session mode, then use follow actions... it's quite intuitive.
a very good and helpful comparison of those two controllers and software. Excellently narrated...! So: thanks.
Love it! Gives some insight on the Maschine Plus vs Push 3 discussion
Thanks man for this video. It is exactly what I was looking for!
Great comparison!! I bought an Maschine Jam and a second hand Maschine Studio. It gives me best of both worlds. The new Maschine Jam gave me Komplete Select, Maschine software and Ableton Lite licenses. The Maschine Studio gave me a perfect controller to setup a song in Maschine and it has a good Ableton template. I sync Ableton Lite using MTC to add audio tracks to Maschine. The Jam controller gives me all the step sequencing features I need in Maschine. And it's a great Ableton controller too using it's Ableton template. For less than 600 euro's for both a new Maschine Jam and a second hand Maschine Studio I've a great producing setup which controls both Maschine and Ableton.
What a great resource youtube is! I was wondering on your titled topic and there comes your vid - great presentation - thanks for posting!
What an amazing comparison. Thanks for your work!
One thing that has attracted me to the Maschine MK3 over Push 2 is NKS, especially since Arturia has adopted the NKS standard. Issue I've had with the Push 2 + Ableton is that I can't scroll through 3rd party VST presets or have a menu system where I can pick a synth, then filter down to what I want sound-wise exactly. With Ableton I can only do that with built in instruments or otherwise have to do a tedious manual save as instrument for thousands of presets across all my 3rd party VSTs. Being able to find the sound you want quickly and move forward is crucial for making music.
Thanks for the video! I decided to go for Maschine Mk3 for my workflow.
Personally speaking. The maschine has the best workflow to just sit down and start making beats. The new idea function makes it easier to test arrangements.
Tony Slumz it depends on the person cuz I had the mk2 and maschine and my work flow went crazy when I started using ableton and ableton push
Tony Slumz I was always stuck with maschine it made me feel boxed in
This is what I am feeling too when using Maschine Studio, so with push its better ?
Really great video. I've been thinking about adding the MMK3 to my life ever since I heard about it's released a week ago. I currently use the Push 2, and I think your comparison was spot on and will really help those that are thinking about one or the other and what fits for them. I feel it really comes down to workflow and how you want to accomplish that. One minor thing (and it's really minor), is that I think you can increase the brightness of the Push 2 by clicking the setup button. Not sure if the dimness/brightness level you saw on your Push was the default level. I use mine in bed when I can't get to sleep, and even without the power supply, I never really have a problem with it. Thanks again for the great video.
Christopher Craig thanks very much for your comment. Yes, I am familiar with the brightness setting on Push 2 and mine was on 100%. Btw if they weren’t side by side Push 2 looks great with external power. It’s on USB power that it becomes very hard to see anything
I've been looking/waiting for someone to make this vid and you nailed it! Thank you.
thanks for the timeline on the left btw. love seeing this. wish it was clickable and highlighted per section... great video.
Massive Dubstep thanks! I wish it was clickable too... TH-cam disabled annotations for new uploads unfortunately so it’s technically not possible
Great video, very informative, and descriptive. Thanks
There's one more trick I can recommend for Push, there's a max for live Plugin called "Expressin Control", you can use it to map the modwheel and/or pitch, velocity etc. to what ever you want in live. You can use it to get a similar thing to Maschines touch fx, by mapping the modwheel to an effect.
Thank you! I'm a new songwriter, learning production in Ableton 11 lite and am researching upgrades for my workstation. This laid out most of the features I was concerned with (primarily the piano roll and drum rack) in a useful and easy to understand comparison. I really appreciate the work you put into this video. I really like the features of Push 2, and knowing the (very few) drawbacks of the hardware ahead of time will help me overcome the issues. Great work!
One more thing ^^, if you hold select on the push2 and tap the touchstrip it will change to a modwheel. If you like the Parameter Locks of Maschine I recommend you to look at PP-Labs, its a Max for live collection which brings this feature to live, but sadly it does not support to morph between them, so Maschine still is the winner here^^. Oh and take a look at Abletons Options.txt you can set up Ableton to automatically show the VST parameters, and there's Preditor (Max for live) which allows you to make deep mappings for VST's, like Ableton's native stuff.
Blaste Flame cool - will add both comments to the clip as a note and description. Thanks !
You're welcome. By the way did you trie to use Maschine in a drum rack inside of Ableton? It's a strong combination and you get the best of both worlds.
Blaste Flame thanks! Added to description and gave you credit ;)
I've learned so much tricks for Electribe and synthesis in general from your videos, so happy I can give something back ^^
Blaste Flame aaawwwweesome
I have Push, Maschine and the Ren. In my opinion Push is superior. Especially sample chops and time stretching. I do like the drum programming in the Ren better and the chord feature and the effects in Maschine though. That's why I use them all combined. Sucks but until I get better at drum programming in ableton I'm using the bundle.
Wow 24 mins in, thats a huge setback on abletons part having to manually configure like that, good God.
Great video btw. Ty
Awesome review! Great work 🙌
Great video, it helped me decide I want both!
Great comparison. I've owned a Mk1 for years, but I spend the majority of my time in Live. In-fact, I typically run Maschine as a VST inside Live. That being said, I've been thinking about updating my Maschine to a Mk3 because it really seems to be a significant improvement to the Mk1, although, since most of my workflow is in Live (outside of the Maschine VST), I wonder if a Push might be the better addition to my setup. I'm also a bit concerned about the state of affairs at Native Instruments. NAMM 2020 is coming in up a few weeks - I'll probably wait to see if there are any new offerings from either company before pulling the trigger. Keep up the great videos!
Thanks for such a comparative review. Is there any chance that you might do one in the future regarding Komplete Kontrol MK2 vs Akai Advance or M-Audio CTRL49 and their related software/utilities?
Great informative video. I'm in the process of deciding whether to grab the Mk3. Think I'm gonna pull the trigger. Thanks.
This is awesome, thx for making this!
You can mix the individual arts of a kit on push 2 press/select the kit twice and it collapses/opens the kit
I love the clear explanation and the side bar menu. You should get a million subs by now!
You can mix each individual part on Push, too. You need to use a drum rack (if you use one instance of simpler with multibel slices you can easily, convert it to a drum rack by pressing "Convert") and now you need to double tap the drumrack in the mixer view to open it, so now you see each cell of the drum rack as an individual mixer track.
yeah. i was about to add, on the push 2 you can enter the drumkit at the device level to see the individual elements of kit and make adjustments at that level.
Thanks for the great vid. Still rocking the MK1 1.8 :)
Hopefully there'll be a better integration of Maschine Mk3 in Ableton Live
3 years later it doesn't
Great review and great detail. Thanks!!
If it has not already been mentioned Isotonik PrEditor allows you to customize how synth and effect parameters display on a Push 1 and 2. This includes all built in Ableton synths and effects and third party VSTs. It can be a highly effective way for Ableton users to customize the order of parameters, their label names, and how it appears on a Push.
Hey! Great job. Subscribed and looking forward to more great content like this.
very informative video..thank you
You can also change the volume of individual sounds in a drum kit on push 2. And yes. On one screen. 16:50
This is pretty correct comparison. For me as a buyer I would count them both as controllers for their own DAWs. They are not standalone, they both have own DAW.
I use maschine’s mk3 controller and I love it❤️
This is such a great video. Well explained without any of the "Uhhhs" and "Ummmm" that usually make the video a million times longer. Thank you so much for this.
railpressureflip thanks, yes I try and edit as tightly as possible
24:30 The problem with this though is that it only is for plugins that support the Native Instruments eco system, and you have to page through them, and you can't change them.
I tried using the Komplete Kontrol M32 to control my Axxess Arp Axxe emulation from GForce and each page controls a random knob on the synth and it's virtually impossible to understand what is being controlled where and it's a disaster.. I tried to find out how to control VCF cutoff and res for a bassline sound it was impossible.. cryptic names on each page and parameter name when you touch the knobs.
With Ableton it doesn't matter which one you do.. And this is something that Kore did too (the thing that preceded Kontrol that NI discontinued)
One of the best things about Kore was how easy it was to custom map knobs to parameters. but afaik you can't do that in Kontrol. and apparently not in Maschine either.
great video!! it covered pretty much all i wanted to know between the two and now i know what to get :D
what did you get? regrets?
@@crieverytim i got the maschine mk3, and i liked it. But in the end i just ended up using my normal DAW more, so sold it again.
Great Vid by the way, i pondered for ages then bought the maschine mk3, now i want a push 2 too!
The updates to Push 2 integration that came with Live 10 bring it way past Maschine for me
Really? Very much considering buying one
Great comparison video! What kind of stands are you using for them?
Thanks! Stands by Cremacaffe (check out Spike XL)
they look like they are repurposed stands for photos that you'd put over the fireplace lol
Push is a controller, Maschine is an instrument, and it shows... for example: locking device parameters during tweaking, using fixed velocity not only with drumpads but instruments as well, chords mode, the ability to set scales per group (Push can only set a scale for all tracks) and of course... the build in audio & midi interface.
Push is used to control Live which in its turn is used to make music. Maschine is used... to make music. Here's a noodle: try triggering sounds using only the Maschine software but without a controller...
Push + Maschine otoh is a major killer combo.
Thank you for a great explanation! Push 2 (or 3) for me!
great info, great video, great job.
Thank you for all comprehensive Reviews. And in this special one.
Can the Maschine mk3 arrange song mode of different time signiture in the same song?! Polyrhythms and polymeter !!
"box of blinking lights" hilarious.
I think Maschine is more creative way to do everything not spending a lot of money, cause many of the features/plugins/sounds tightly linked with controller (Reaktor, Massive, Monark...). It very similar to Maschine+ workflow but you just should enable a PC/Mac for sync. Also Maschine works as a soundcard & have different outputs/inputs to connect devices. With Maschine you just doing a music without distraction on DAW on PC/Mac at all.
But another point of view - Push 2 has a lot of pads so it can work like a piano & many who don't know piano keyboard layout can use Push 2 pads very easy. Also switching harmonics & showing non-harmonics pads looks cool feature, but again, I think it will be convenient only for people without piano background, as a pianist I feel uncomfortable with pads playing cause you just trying to guess, not play the certain notes :) It looks confusing,
In my opinion Ableton Push 2 looks like a "DAW mapper", not a fully "DAW controller" cause it can't control all features that Ableton provides including convenient plugin controlling. That's why I'd rather buy Maschine with MIDI controller like Arturia Keystep/NI Komplete Kontrol.
An important detail: Native Instruments doesn’t give any support in the forum and it doesn’t have any email that we can get in touch with them anymore. Theres a know bug between Komplete s61 and Maschine micro mk3 and they simply don’t care about it.
@Defectiveresistor Portugal, but there's people all over the world complaining about this. Check out this thread as an example: www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/ableton-host-integration-not-working-with-komplete-maschine.406705/page-2#post-1971521
Also if yoou have abelton live you can incorporate maschine into your software as a "plugin" therefore youll get all of those features :D
Great comparison, thank you very much!! :)