I installed a pv system when I built my house here in Hawaii. Local incentives paid for 1/3 of it. The system paid for itself in 4 years. I've had the system for 8 years now. I power my house as well as charge my ev car with it. It was a great decision in my case. Fuel savings with the ev is maybe $100 a month. Monthly home electrical savings are $250. The otd cost for my Chevy Bolt when I bought it in 2019 was $32000. My out of pocket cost for the pv system was $12000. PV panel prices have come down substantially in the past few years. Bottom line, a pv system may be a good choice in your area.
@@Redskool1 PV prices have come way down since I installed my system. My installer was P.A Harris which is no longer in business. Lots of other installers though. Off the grid is a good way to go I think.
I have had Solar on my home for 8 years now, it paid for itself in 6 years and i paid cash. The only thing i would do differently if i could is have them installed on the ground for keeping them clean. But i did not have enough land for that. I am very satisfied with my Solar and i pay $17.86 per month for a pole charge. I live in NY State a great State for Solar.
If you would have invested that money you spent on solar panels 8 years ago, it would have doubled by now. You would be far better off than the small amount of money you save on your energy bill every month.
My friends who bought into solar panels did not have the same beneficial experience as you did and we live in sunny south Texas. Both regret it overwhelmingly and they are stuck for the next 20 years paying for them.
As a guy with two electric cars it makes a lot of sense for me. I basically drive for free. Average electricity bill is 32.50 per month. So I don't know why you're knocking it ?????
Because he can only think in terms of house value. He doesn't give a fig about emissions reduction (or the fact that in plenty of places it _does_ make financial sense too).
@CharlesCharles-bb6qx the presenter didn't get political at all. He laid out his position very well. He didn't get into battery systems, buy backs, EV tiers etc. Results will vary by individual, but he DID bring up many good points as most people do NOT live in a house long enough to reach break even.
@@tortoise62 It is political that there is any question about this at all. Solar can be done wrong. Don't do that. Micro and nano energy generation, coupled with cooperative transmission solutions similar to old style energy utilities, will make us more resilient for what is coming. Any other short term thinking is hurting the survival chances of both local and global humanity.
you didn't say what your initial outlay was. you have a battery system too? Or only charge during the day? this video's bigger point is about the economic payback, over time.
@@gregf1299 Including rebates from Uncle Joe Biden (whom I'm not really a fan of but will gladly take his money) total outlay was about 25k. I do not have a battery system but may get one in the future. I hook up the cars up during the day whenever they're not being used. When you factor in fuel savings as well as electricity costs I calculated payback in about seven years at current rates. Yet I have observed in Florida electricity rates steadily go up EVERY year. As for gas prices that's solely at the discretion of the Arabs and OPEC. Lord knows I HATE making Arabs richer. They killed several of my good friends and tried to kill me a few times too.
A FEW more points… 1. Solar panels lose 2-3% efficiency every year. 2. They are running at 50% efficiency at 15 years or less. 3. You aren’t actually energy independent. The power still runs to the power company. Your power goes out or gets shut off, then it’s off. Even if you have panels. A battery can give you alittle power during an outage, but has nothing to do with the panels. And in most cases you can’t sent power from the panels directly to the battery. The power still comes from the power company to charge the battery. 4. The power companies are the ones profiting. Instead of them having to lease land and buy solar farms and windmills. They have just dumped the cost on the individual, and the power company is making 10 cents (per dollar of power.) and they have no cost to them. You have traded a power bill for an equally or more expensive solar panel bill with maintenance and sometimes interest, which loses ability over time.
People who spend thousands on solar expecting to save money do not have strong financial intelligence. It’s a scam and lots of Americans are going to lose a lot of money on this.
I live in Nevada and have had solar for nearly 10 years and it has been great. The solar array was an outright purchase and it paid for itself in 6 or 7 years. The only cost is the monthly service charge from NV Energy. Never lease. If you live in a desert state, you would be crazy not to go solar.
I've installed three arrays on my farm here in NJ since 2004. All have made economic sense ( partly because NJ has a way for homeowners to earn money for producing solar electricity). So at least here, it can make sense to go solar if you own the panels and don't move often. Now that I'm retired its nice to know I don't have to worry about an electric bill.
As a few have stated, it depends on a number of variables that you have to factor into the decision, and there's just no getting around that. Factors like: On-grid with 1:1 credit from the power co, or Off-grid w/ batteries. If you don't get 1:1 credit guaranteed, it's less worth it. Also, how much your particular system produces, including factors like roof size, & how much sunlight they'll get, etc. But, for a lot of people, it's definitely worth it.
Thanks for inserting some financial sanity into this discussion! For unknown reasons, we have been conditioned to think that a 20 year payback was acceptable....based on the (unreliable guarantees) of 25 year panel warranties. But the killer point you make is the basic fact that people own a house for 8 years, ensuring that in most cases, the break-even payback is never going to happen. The only economic win you can generally get with solar panels is to buy them on a house with paid-off solar (a distress-sale, as far as the solar part is concerned). Even then, you never know what you might have to do for maintenance the roof going forward, and if you need to get under the panels, get ready for an expensive deinstall/ reinstall. But it's not just about panels. It's common to have powerwall battery systems (each at least $7K), especially, for charging your EV overnight. If you have 2 of them, thats $14K plus controllers and wiring installation costs. Very doubtful that these batteries will last as long as the panels are supposed to, so factor in a mid-cycle repurchase/ update, into your system payback. Finally, solar systems are too complex for the average non-DIY homeowner (not talking about DIY enthusiasts such as TH-cam readers!). It requires technical knowledge and motivation on behalf of the owner to keep track of possible panel, controller or battery degradation issues. You can't see these problems visually. Consequently, many consumers will ignore maintenance problems arising that can dramatically affect their payback expectation.
Zillow did a study that shows homes with solar sell for around 4.1% more than a comparable home without solar. Other large institutions have similar studies. If you have an appraiser who wont add value to your appraisal to include a solar system that greatly offsets the cost of home ownership in the form of reduced electric bills, then i'd say get a new appraiser. It matters to the home buyers for sure with the rate at which electric costs are going up. I do 100% agree, you should not buy your panels by taking out a loan as that greatly impacts your ROI. We are very happy with our solar purchase.
If 4.1% higher sale price is accurate, than you just proved solar panels are a scam. A $250,000 house would sell for about $10,250 more (4.1%+). This would be significantly less than the cost of the added solar panels, meaning the seller still loses equity. Also, it's worth mentioning that the sales price is not necessarily going to be the same as the appraised value, which is what this video talked about.
@@hellfire0332 The value of the panels is not _only_ the 4% on the house value. They _also_ reduce your electricity bill and your emissions. All of those taken together should be significantly more than the cost. And emissions reductions are worth having even if you _don't_ make money as well. We all need to get off fossil fuels as soon as possible.
@hellfire0332 you're making the assumption I sell right after I pay for panels. In reality, I save thousands a year for multiple years first. I'm 4 years into having my panels/battery installed and 3years out for my break even point at which point every dollar I save will be profit. When I eventually sell, the 4.1% increase will be in addition to the profit I've already realized. And 4.1% on my $450 home is $18K. My total cost after getting 30% back in solar tax credit was just over $19k. I earned the difference back after about 6months. What you all consider a scam is a no brainer from a numbers perspective. I'm grateful every month when I get my electric bill that we decided to get solar. And I know he was talking about appraised value. Hence my comments about finding a new appraiser if they don't consider solar in their appraisal figures.
Some good points but again it depends on where you live. I definitely agree that you should buy your solar and get a single party roofer/installer. I did this back in 2012 and there has been no issue. Also, the math depends on where you are in the country. Here in California, sun is common and the price of electricity is through the roof. Also, it is a myth that you need a huge system to eliminate your electric bill. Even a small system can reduce your bill dramatically by moving you down the tiered pricing structure. As a TH-camr, you speak well but I recommend getting a better microphone. Take a look at the Blue Yetti. It is inexpensive, USB and it sounds really good.
The only way our math worked out was if the power company buys our excess during the day at full price and they do. With out that it would have been a very questionable investment. ( Our panels have now paid for themselves and are giving us free power, but not all solar installations do this in a reasonable amount of time)
The price of solar panels is coming down fast. So every example from a few years ago, should be more expensive than today. We always have to exclude scams, they are not relevant to judge real pricing. I talk her about prices without subsidies, as subsidies are mostly lower than a few years ago. Solar panels are also getting more effective, with new generations coming on the market. For people doing things themselves, there is a growing market for used solar panels out there, sometimes it pays to buy the used converters too. I would assume that in the future you will find companies that deal with used solar panels, and install them for you. When there is a market somebody will exploit it, like with used cars. The problems with solar for homeowners are mostly wrong design, usually bigger than reasonable, the electrical providers, wrong installations and so on. Of course there are areas where solar panels do not pay for themselves. But here in Europe we start to see solar panels in the south of Sweden, Finland, Norway and the Baltic countries, hardly very sol rich countries. Stockholm is as far north as northern Labrador.
I installed solar on both of my houses. The solar compay did the roofs and solar together. They stripped the old roofing paper from both roofs and installed a new rubber roof before installing the solar panels. My systems are 8 kw and cover my entire elctrity use. I only pay $20 monthly for electric bills, and that cost is to tie to the grid. My houses are grid tied. I bought my systems out cash. After tax incentives, my end cost will break even in just five years, and I'm already in for 4 years. The systems and my roofs are guaranteed by the solar company for 25 years. In my opinion, solar is a no-brainer. I will caution all. Make sure to check with an accountant before going solar. If you aren't obligated to pay State and Federal taxes, you will never see the tax incentives/tax credits that make solar cost effective to the homeowner.
Looked into getting solar in Virginia. It wouldn't be a loss if you had all the cash on hand but they kill you on the loans. The companies are more loan salesman than energy.
Think about this also, we paid cash ($18,000 ) for our panels and we are happy with them , but how much could we have made by investing that money, really is no right or wrong here, just do the math before getting involved, we would not have done it unless the power company buys our excess and they do.
The banks fees and finance charge is 30% to 40% of the system cost. Don't blame the companies, blame yourself for not having enough cash to buy outright. No one is required to loan u money at no interest
We paid cash, but think about this , we could have invested that money with our other investments and made interest on it while getting a loan. Not to mention when we reached into our investments and now that put us in a higher tax bracket. Many things to consider The lesson learning never ends. @@altered_beast
The main reason Solar pays off faster than it seems like it would at first, is that utility bills have been rising rapidly, faster than inflation. 14% in 2022 alone.
You folks are lucky. Electricity and gas prices more than trebled in Britain in 2023. My monthly DD for electricity alone went from under £50 to over £150. That's about 16% of my personal income. This small terraced house has 6 rooms with no A/C, no central heating, but good thermal insulation. Many people in Britain are paying a lot more than me.
@@RWBHere That's awful. I don't know much about how Britain prices electricity, but I have heard that between Brexit and Russia, imported fuel is an issue.
Better consider the age of your roof before adding the panels, remember too that your roof won't be any better off after they install the panels. If your roof is just old or in any way suspect, it would be better to replace it before you add the panels. Remember too that installing the panels will probably void your roof warranty and in any case they will not pay to remove and reinstall the panels due to any repair. Next consider the layout of your roof, if it does not face mostly southward, the output of the panels will be drastically reduced, the salesman will not tell you this. Next consider where you live, south Florida, sunny Caliofornicate, Hawaii, or Arizona are great for solar, Dakota is not. Also places that get a lot of rain or cloudy weather, getting north of about 45 degrees of north latitude is where the output numbers start failing, especially during the winter months, both low sun angles and short days are to blame for this. Most utilities do not want to buy back your surplus power and if they do it won't be are the rate you pay for power in most cases. Actually many utilities don't actually generate power rather the buy it and transport it to your house or from your house and they bill for this service, power buyback is based on only the rate of their power purchase. Charging an electric vehicle will depend on how much it is used and would be best during the peak daylight hours.
It depends on many variables. In California when they had NEM 2.0 going, it was a no brainer. Your system would usually pay for itself in about 5 to 6 years and then energy would basically be free. Nowadays, due to awful politicians the incentives are far less. A system now takes 10 to 15 years to pay for itself so you may be better off investing elsewhere.
@@AgentOffice As I said the investment break-even moved from 5 to 6 years to 10 to 15 years depending and some will never break even. This is why solar installation on existing homes in California fell by 80 percent since NEM 3.0 came into effect, which facilitated the loss of 17,000 installer jobs this year. In most cases it is no longer a good financial decision as you'd be better off putting your money into an index fund or etf. I understand the need for energy storage but the utilities only paying a quarter of what your power is worth is a travesty and they are pushing for even more anti-consumer laws and it looks like they're going to get them to. This is about power, they "Utilities and Government" want to be the gatekeepers. There were a dozen ways to address the NEM 2.0 problem and they chose the most anti-consumer of them all.
Have no Idea what Country you live in but in Australia those Solar Panels you have are yours, they cost money, yep your Money and should you move out you can do what you like with them If you do you lease your solar panels or take a pay-off loan you don’t actually own them until they’re fully paid off. You will however be required to pay the outstanding balance and take ownership of your solar but if decide to move house, those panels you now own can’t easily be removed and reused.
@@graemekeeley4497 every solar pane can be reused, including the needed stuff for the electrical installation. You can even buy used solar panels today, a good way for people that do not want to invest to much, or take out a big loan.
Nothing you do adds value to your home. That swimming pool. Nope. Even when you remodel the kitchen you will not get that money back in the sale price of your home.
The greatest scam sold to Americans was real estate. A house made in the late 19th century will bleed energy or you're stuck heating and cooling your home before the advent of AC. Even my parents' house made in the late 80s at the middling cost can't hold a candle to modern insulation technology. The place I'm renting now feels like a window is open when I know there isn't.
I'm looking at a solar system with battery to do two things... Reduce or eliminate monthly cost of power, and have a reliable source of power. The problem: Power here in the rural areas is VERY unreliable. My first year in this house as an example: 8 power outages. Several were in the 4-5 hour range. 2 were 4 days long each. Running a generator to keep the fridge running and have a light or two was a royal pain. Looking at whole house generation, I investigated... and found that a 350 gallon propane tank would be needed for a 3 day run time. Then about $1000 to refill the tank ...and a problem being it may not get refilled until after the power outage. There is no piped in gas... I suppose I could go with diesel, but it's still a problem. The inverter and battery will be in a to-be-installed utility shed behind the house...transfer switch on the outside of the house...Solar sales folk really don't like talking to me.. I'm a retired engineer and when they start generating the bull effluent I laugh at them....
I have a similar situation with a 250 Gallon propane tank, running a 7KW generator through a transfer switch. In practice, I don't use it, until I know the power is going to be out for a while. Even then, I don't run all of the circuits on the generator, so I can probably go 10 days without needing a propane fill-up. Most outages are not that long. One thing: a standard electric water heater can overwhelm this size of generator, so I have a heat-pump water heater that can run on half wattage if necessary.
In my state, you pay market rate for electricity $0.12-0.14/kw-h anything you sell to the grid, you get $0.026-0.031/kw-h. The only way solar ever breaks even is if you install it yourself on a tight budget with federal incentives and install battery to cover your own usage. Selling back to the grid isn't cost effective. I might build a solar system on a new home to completely avoid having to pay for grid hookup.
I'm in Texas in a very sunny area. We received a quote that was what we paid for the home almost 20 years ago. Yes, we're still in the same house. The quote for solar, to offset our usage 100%, even though we'd still be on grid overnight, and we do have net metering in our area, was for somewhere around $93,000. You didn't read that wrong, and I didn't type it wrong. Based on our energy usage, that was the quote we received, and without any sort of storage. No battery pack at all. The system would have been financed for 25 years. The payments on the system would have been more than our average electric bill. If, for some reason, we decided not to put the entire tax credit toward the loan, the payments would almost double. All for a 25 year loan. It would have cost us a massive amount more than staying on grid to go solar, so we declined the offer. I'm not opposed to solar, but systems need to get much more efficient and quite a bit cheaper. What's worse is the warranty solar companies provide only covers defects. It doesn't cover weather damage. That means an increase to home owner insurance to cover the solar panels. So more money out of pocket on an investment just to, hopefully, save money on electricity. It wasn't a good quote and definitely wasn't the right time.
All that to say that you got a bad quote. That number is 10x the national average for a 100% system after tax credits. It's 3x the highest prices in the country. You can't tell me that you wouldn't pull the trigger on a $10k system that breaks down your electric bill with a system that most folks can pay off in a few years, right?
@@allenklingsporn6993 What part of "I'm not opposed to solar" was unclear. Great job stating the obvious. Did it make you feel good to sound so condescending?
@@grahf4077it’s not condescending, you received a bad quote and quit all together. Over the next 20-30 years 100k+ of your hard earned cash is gonna go to the utility company. Find a local company with 5 star reviews more than likely they are using local credit lenders for reasonable rates and shorter terms. Sounds like you got an estimate from a major corporate company and had a rep that was trying to crack you over the head
@@ps3alphagamer12 Your comment assumes I just got a quote and, your words, "quit". I did quite a lot of research. I looked up prices for panels and researched all I could from a DIY perspective. Even that is prohibitively expensive. The claim that 100% of a person's income will go to electricity is just plain fear mongering. The point is that solar for my usage is horrifically expensive and the time to recover the cost of installation alone is not worth it, and that would be if I paid out of pocket up front and did as much of the installation as I could myself. Bad quote? Possibly, even probably. Better out there? Not that service my area, and overall pricing is simply not great so it's not a good choice right now.
Keep it off grid with ground mount solar arrays and get out of the loop of the scammers.It’s very DIY friendly and breaks even much sooner. Most of us in Texas have the space or the option to leave the ghetto. Yee Ha !
Totally, agree with you on all of your points. I own my home and I paid cash for my solar system as South Carolina doesn't offer friendly assistance to home owner construction projects. Solar is simple to install but because the permitting is such, the solar companies are making a killing just as you pointed out. I purchased solar because of one point you did not mention as most do not. I installed it as I have an electric car and the difference in electricity vs. gasoline will pay for my system before the warrantee runs out on my vehicle's battery. The extra I get beyond the car or the increase in electricity in the future is just icing on the cake. Thank you for your presentation as I wish I would have heard it 2 years ago when I began the task of wading through all of salesman BS before finalizing my decision.
In my country for northern Europe, I pay roughly 10c per kWh in energy taxes and transmission fees. Plus whatever the electricity price is (between 5c and 25c depending on season and day). Meanwhile I can get a 10 kW solar array + 5 kWh battery + equipment and installation labor for ~$12.5k, total. The array produces ~11 MWh electricity per year. So, let's say my panels last for a mere 20 years. This means a total of 220 MWh produced during the panels full life. This is ~6c per kWh. if I keep the array 30 years, that is ~4c per kWh. Every kWh I use that is generated from my solar roof saves me 40-60% in transmission costs alone, and 120-150% of the transmission cost if I include the electricity price. And if I don't use it? I sell the excess energy for even more cost savings. Let us say electricity + transmission costs are on average 20c. Then I will reach break even with 90 MWh produced.
something else to consider is if you have trees around your home. just because your roof faces south might not be a good enough reason if you have trees that block the sun in certain seasons. adequate placement is important, and not all solar companies care enough to do the research about which area of your roof gets the most sun
Click bait title, with some nuggets of helpful suggestions. I bought my panels with cash, and after the tax credit it was $18k. The pay off period was 12 years when we bought them, but now it is closer to 10 since the cost of energy has gone up, so what we generate has more value then it did. I do sell excess power back to the grid. I don't have a battery so no maintenance. I put it over the garage so if it leaks it won't ruin living space, and it was done over a new roof. I also plan on being in this house for 20 years or more. And if I were buying a house, I would absolutely pay extra if there were two identical houses, but one had paid off solar that would save me hundreds a month. The summary of the video should be: Don't lease. Pay with cash if possible. Consider the maintenance cost of a battery. Consider the pay off period. Ensure you get the tax credit. Consider the location of the installation. Consult the utility company for feeding back to the grid and the rates they give. Instead the summary of the video is: Don't do solar, it is a scam. Which is absolutely not true.
sunrun installed a defective roof on my home and couldn't find an in house contractor to fix it during DRIVING RAINS. I was told by sunrun that I should hire my own contractor and they will reimburse me. I was forced to do that under duress because of the immediacy of the untended to emergency of the lead. But when further damage became revealed and more leaks occured, they refused to repair the newly discovered damage all over the entirety of the roof. Many construction errors. Now I Have to pay for my own repairs to the tune of over $7000
I like the content. I appreciate your perspective, especially on helping me understand the loan angle of these systems. Constructive criticism: it would be an improvement to invest in a better microphone that is closer to your body. Sound quality on this video is about a C. Best
Wait this is dumb…if you’re paying 75 dollars a month less after you install it who cares about the break even point. You are paying less monthly! I wasn’t looking to add value or break even as long as I pay less monthly and it last till the house needs a new roof then my bills are less😊
As a current worker for a local Solar company in NC, this is a great video to watch if you're considering it, but most of what he's talking about are the workings of older Solar companies when it comes to Sales pitch and His myth busters part. We are a pretty new company, and the older ones around about 10 - 15 years old are moving out of town, while we are booming. Alot of our work which does include tree removal and roofing, is all taken into account at signing costs and insured under our 25 year warranty. which covers ALL DAMAGE done to any personal property. I could go on, but research is crucial also when it comes to what company you are dealing with.
This is bullshit. Im autistic. I tinker with motors and batteries and until recently solar. I did everything. I put 1600 watts of solar on my box truck and 100w on my personal vehicle. Personal vehicle makes around 300wh a day. Box truck made 2kw and it was 100% CLOUDS all day. They lay flat. I dont even use the tilt system as they produce more than enough power I could ever need. This is more about shitty companies and people. Solar is cheap now. You can get them under a $/watt now. Its now literally cheaper than ANY OTHER way to make power. Solar has expanded massively prices have never been this reasonable. Its shattered estimates. Solar is hear to stay. Just do it urself and skip all the bullshit like negativity and scams
i agree with statying there and the cost of having someone install it all is a rip off (23k in equip, they want $96k and my tax credit!!) - BUT my elec last year was 250/year, this year it's 370!! And there is an energy credit for every KW installed. still evaluating solar. I"m a heavy user of electricity-shop, 4 furnaces (well, heat pumps), an EV...would love to reduce the cost or never see it go up at least!
As with everything, it depends. I've had customers who love it and have saved a ton of money because they did their research and read their contracts. Ive had customers that didnt do their research or read their contracts and they come to find out it wasnt a good idea in their situation.
I wish everybody could watch this video before they got into this solar scam. They must look at their bills and see if they really 'benefit' from it. I took over a lease from previous owner and every month I'm negative $150, although I generate 700KWH and only use 300KWH
in some places the panels are not insurable and have even been forced to be removed so check that before you start, like any thing how you do it will set your return. I have a friend why put up his him self and ordered the panels direct he ordered much more than he needed and sold off the extras reducing his cost, it paid for its self in 3 yrs hes on a farm and power outages happen more often due to age and wind he though that made it worth while
Thank you Shawn for making this video. I've been considering a whole home battery "generator" for my home, and thus am actively researching brands, sizes, options, efficiency, cost, and so forth. Many of these systems offer or suggest solar panels for recharging, "offsetting" or extending the amount of time that you can run your home on the battery unit. Sounds good, right??? While my home is paid off, I also know that I want to move in the next 5 to 10 years, and traditional gas/diesel/natural gas generators are "nice, but don't add value on the resale end" I figured the battery "generator" would be the same, so I want one that I can take with me. The longer I have it, the better my ROI will be. This gets into the solar panel options that many offer. Like you, I'm not opposed to green energy, but I also won't throw my money at something that doesn't make sense and isn't fiscally responsible (thus taking a 20 year loan on the home instead of a 30, and paying it off early!). I knew that solar panels didn't add value, that some (many) the solar companies roaming the streets are poorly trained at best, and blatant scam artists at worse, I had heard a few of the lease issues, but you completed that circle for me, and I know that some insurance companies won't insure, or require additional coverage and add exclusions, for solar panels (leak risks, roofing material damage, fire risks, etc.). My primary intention for the battery "generator" is to have something to power key portions of the home during power outages, so I'm thinking I don't actually need solar panels, nor do I want the mounted on my house or shed/garage.
Ok then solar install companies suck . Just do it yourself and learn something I installed maintain and produce 90% of my own power on a 3300 sq ft home . Pay off is 5.1 years for mine and I have battery backup 5 days worth
Not everything is about adding value to your home. Most home updates don't add value to a home on a dollar to dollar basis. Solar might not make sense when it comes to home value, but solar itself is clearly not a scam.
Solar is becomes cheaper over time in many different aspects. I also wouldn't call it a scam because there is no bait and switch. The facts are laid out on the table. I think even this video would make a great selling tool for an agent trying to sell honestly.
Man, I can't agree. We're selling and moving to a rural area - we will viably be able to pay cash for our next home. Husband is a plumber and I work out of the house, so no daycare for our kids, and we make most of our dinners from home. We shop at Aldi and buy frozen. Dollar Store decor for Christmas. Christmas bonus check goes to home updates for the sale. It's tight, but we're doing it.
@@sitcomchristian6886, Okay if you are already in a financial position to pay cash, you don't need homeownership to build equity you already have it. What I was alluding to is, relators often cite building equity as a good reason to buy a home. Now if you are staring at 7% on the mortgage and property taxes of $3-4k, you better hope like hell you don't have any major home repairs or you are in a white hot market.
Most of your points seemed valid but I think you double counted the costs of the 'take out a loan' to own scenario. The $160 cost per month is the entire non-maintenance cost of the system. If your average energy bill exceeds that $160 then each dollar of that savings is money in the bank for you. On the other hand, if you end up selling your house before those 20 years are up then you will probably have a loss that would need to be offset against those savings if, as you point out, the solar roof will not increase the houses sales price. Calculating the size of that loss might say that after 8 years you've paid about $6,000 of that original $22,000. Then you would need to save about $145 dollars per month on your energy bill to break even (ignoring the interest you might consider yourself to have earned on those monthly savings for those 8 years).
thanks for the info. I like solar but for me i can pay for them with out borrowing. Also i installed my own panels, break even is about 7 years. For everyone else its a bad idea.
Dude, you're looking at it only from the perspective of house seller. And I'm not sure where you got your numbers, but from my experience of civil engineer, I have to say return is generály between 6 and 8 years. And Once you commit to this investment, you are likely styling in that house.
Put a geothermal heat pump in. Watch your electricity bill drop. Also the government has caused the increase in the cost of solar panels. 3 years ago I could buy a 10k kit for less than 8k now its 17k.
Like anything, It's a great deal for some, not as good for others. In my case it saved me nearly a thousand a year. Experiences may vary. Do your homework. It might just save you more.
well you did mention that this is in US .... in Europe especialy est part of it only idiots do lones for leeses ... we usualy go for of grid in low voltage or if it is on grid we just want to lower the monthly pay to energy or eliminated and not to get money for it
This guy is obviously anti-solar because he is biased because hes personally lost real estate deals because certain buyers didnt want to buy someone elses solar system. Solar makes sense for 90% of homeowners in any state with high utility rates and gets a lot of sunshine
I agree with almost everything he said except the conclusion. The only way you can recover the investment is use all the power generated at peak production and in a large installation. To use all the production it likely will have to be stored in batteries to wait for peak demand. It has to be large because the basic equipment,labor and permits is a significant expense before considering purchasing and installation of panels. Grid-tie only makes sense economically where there is a huge time shift in KWH prices a you are compensated accordingly.For that reason it makes more sense to use batteries and off-grid inverters and sell it back to yourself in high demand hours after sundown. My electric power contract charges about double the average rate from 6:00am-8:00pm then free at night. Guess how I have the timer set to connect the grid to my inverter/charger! Of course I have self installed panels working during the day so the battery stays in the upper end of state-of-charge. I would hesitate to put panels on a non metal roof. Spend money on education and training to DIY as much as possible. Put the panels on ground mount if possible.
I love how all the comments from people who have solar are saying you're wrong lol If youre jealous and mad at the people in the industry making 10xs the month youre making- just say that lol 😅😅
The only reason I’m looking at solar is by paying cash and living in my forever home I’m offsetting risk towards the backend. If I get Tesla Solar Roof and +50% of my average with a propane backup generator I shouldn’t ever need monthly bills outside of food and water (other than property taxes).
It seems that the homeowner assumes all of the risk with purchasing and installing solar panels while the solar company laughs all the way to the bank.
Pro tip: get a microphone near the speaker. The audio sucks. While I agree with the assessment, I wonder why you are so gung-ho against solar. Are the power companies financing this video?
Real issues for me, power goes out right now, within a few hours ComEd has it up again, I do not get a bill....PV goes down....guess who gets the bill. Next is Net metering, not only will it increase your insurance, but the contract you sign forces you to carry insurance...which I have no personal need for homeowners insurance, it is a huge ripoff...Lastly, if someone steals anything or damages it....I would have to pay for it.
The biggest downside for most people is that the power is produced when you are not home to be able to use it. The power grids have the same issue where other methods run 24/7
Make your own video about the global warming hoax. This was a very informative video about the detriments of assuming solar is a fiscally responsible action.
We went to sell a house that had solar. When the appraised the house they didn't factor them in so just before we sold we showed the house to a couple and they wanted to buy. We told them we were taking the solar out because it wasn't appart of thr appraisal therefore wouldn't be considered in the sale. Told them to take it up with realistate company and go fuck themselves.
I have been studying PV panel systems for three years. This is the BEST PV system video I have seen!
I installed a pv system when I built my house here in Hawaii. Local incentives paid for 1/3 of it. The system paid for itself in 4 years. I've had the system for 8 years now. I power my house as well as charge my ev car with it. It was a great decision in my case. Fuel savings with the ev is maybe $100 a month. Monthly home electrical savings are $250. The otd cost for my Chevy Bolt when I bought it in 2019 was $32000. My out of pocket cost for the pv system was $12000. PV panel prices have come down substantially in the past few years. Bottom line, a pv system may be a good choice in your area.
Looking to go off grid in south Kona. Any recommendations?
@@Redskool1 PV prices have come way down since I installed my system. My installer was P.A Harris which is no longer in business. Lots of other installers though. Off the grid is a good way to go I think.
Small Islands are a perfect use case for solar and EVs. Way to go.
I have had Solar on my home for 8 years now, it paid for itself in 6 years and i paid cash. The only thing i would do differently if i could is have them installed on the ground for keeping them clean. But i did not have enough land for that.
I am very satisfied with my Solar and i pay $17.86 per month for a pole charge. I live in NY State a great State for Solar.
If you would have invested that money you spent on solar panels 8 years ago, it would have doubled by now. You would be far better off than the small amount of money you save on your energy bill every month.
@@ClarkMercer We are happy with our purchase so that is all that matters.
My friends who bought into solar panels did not have the same beneficial experience as you did and we live in sunny south Texas. Both regret it overwhelmingly and they are stuck for the next 20 years paying for them.
@@jmb-cm7mr just imagine how much MORE happy you would have been if your purchase had doubled your money lol
Great point! If you have land, put them there. Anything you do on a roof escalates cost.
As a guy with two electric cars it makes a lot of sense for me. I basically drive for free. Average electricity bill is 32.50 per month. So I don't know why you're knocking it ?????
Because he can only think in terms of house value. He doesn't give a fig about emissions reduction (or the fact that in plenty of places it _does_ make financial sense too).
@CharlesCharles-bb6qx the presenter didn't get political at all. He laid out his position very well. He didn't get into battery systems, buy backs, EV tiers etc. Results will vary by individual, but he DID bring up many good points as most people do NOT live in a house long enough to reach break even.
@@tortoise62 It is political that there is any question about this at all. Solar can be done wrong. Don't do that.
Micro and nano energy generation, coupled with cooperative transmission solutions similar to old style energy utilities, will make us more resilient for what is coming. Any other short term thinking is hurting the survival chances of both local and global humanity.
you didn't say what your initial outlay was. you have a battery system too? Or only charge during the day?
this video's bigger point is about the economic payback, over time.
@@gregf1299
Including rebates from Uncle Joe Biden (whom I'm not really a fan of but will gladly take his money) total outlay was about 25k. I do not have a battery system but may get one in the future. I hook up the cars up during the day whenever they're not being used.
When you factor in fuel savings as well as electricity costs I calculated payback in about seven years at current rates. Yet I have observed in Florida electricity rates steadily go up EVERY year. As for gas prices that's solely at the discretion of the Arabs and OPEC. Lord knows I HATE making Arabs richer. They killed several of my good friends and tried to kill me a few times too.
A FEW more points…
1. Solar panels lose 2-3% efficiency every year.
2. They are running at 50% efficiency at 15 years or less.
3. You aren’t actually energy independent.
The power still runs to the power company.
Your power goes out or gets shut off, then it’s off. Even if you have panels.
A battery can give you alittle power during an outage, but has nothing to do with the panels. And in most cases you can’t sent power from the panels directly to the battery. The power still comes from the power company to charge the battery.
4. The power companies are the ones profiting. Instead of them having to lease land and buy solar farms and windmills. They have just dumped the cost on the individual, and the power company is making 10 cents (per dollar of power.) and they have no cost to them.
You have traded a power bill for an equally or more expensive solar panel bill with maintenance and sometimes interest, which loses ability over time.
People who spend thousands on solar expecting to save money do not have strong financial intelligence. It’s a scam and lots of Americans are going to lose a lot of money on this.
I live in Nevada and have had solar for nearly 10 years and it has been great. The solar array was an outright purchase and it paid for itself in 6 or 7 years. The only cost is the monthly service charge from NV Energy. Never lease. If you live in a desert state, you would be crazy not to go solar.
I've installed three arrays on my farm here in NJ since 2004. All have made economic sense ( partly because NJ has a way for homeowners to earn money for producing solar electricity). So at least here, it can make sense to go solar if you own the panels and don't move often. Now that I'm retired its nice to know I don't have to worry about an electric bill.
As a few have stated, it depends on a number of variables that you have to factor into the decision, and there's just no getting around that. Factors like: On-grid with 1:1 credit from the power co, or Off-grid w/ batteries. If you don't get 1:1 credit guaranteed, it's less worth it. Also, how much your particular system produces, including factors like roof size, & how much sunlight they'll get, etc. But, for a lot of people, it's definitely worth it.
Thanks for inserting some financial sanity into this discussion! For unknown reasons, we have been conditioned to think that a 20 year payback was acceptable....based on the (unreliable guarantees) of 25 year panel warranties.
But the killer point you make is the basic fact that people own a house for 8 years, ensuring that in most cases, the break-even payback is never going to happen.
The only economic win you can generally get with solar panels is to buy them on a house with paid-off solar (a distress-sale, as far as the solar part is concerned). Even then, you never know what you might have to do for maintenance the roof going forward, and if you need to get under the panels, get ready for an expensive deinstall/ reinstall.
But it's not just about panels. It's common to have powerwall battery systems (each at least $7K), especially, for charging your EV overnight. If you have 2 of them, thats $14K plus controllers and wiring installation costs. Very doubtful that these batteries will last as long as the panels are supposed to, so factor in a mid-cycle repurchase/ update, into your system payback.
Finally, solar systems are too complex for the average non-DIY homeowner (not talking about DIY enthusiasts such as TH-cam readers!). It requires technical knowledge and motivation on behalf of the owner to keep track of possible panel, controller or battery degradation issues. You can't see these problems visually. Consequently, many consumers will ignore maintenance problems arising that can dramatically affect their payback expectation.
Zillow did a study that shows homes with solar sell for around 4.1% more than a comparable home without solar. Other large institutions have similar studies. If you have an appraiser who wont add value to your appraisal to include a solar system that greatly offsets the cost of home ownership in the form of reduced electric bills, then i'd say get a new appraiser. It matters to the home buyers for sure with the rate at which electric costs are going up. I do 100% agree, you should not buy your panels by taking out a loan as that greatly impacts your ROI. We are very happy with our solar purchase.
This message has been brought to you by an AI algorithm from the department of energy and the Solar panel society of America
@@lv4077 nope. Google it. Read the study for yourself.
If 4.1% higher sale price is accurate, than you just proved solar panels are a scam. A $250,000 house would sell for about $10,250 more (4.1%+). This would be significantly less than the cost of the added solar panels, meaning the seller still loses equity. Also, it's worth mentioning that the sales price is not necessarily going to be the same as the appraised value, which is what this video talked about.
@@hellfire0332 The value of the panels is not _only_ the 4% on the house value. They _also_ reduce your electricity bill and your emissions. All of those taken together should be significantly more than the cost.
And emissions reductions are worth having even if you _don't_ make money as well. We all need to get off fossil fuels as soon as possible.
@hellfire0332 you're making the assumption I sell right after I pay for panels. In reality, I save thousands a year for multiple years first. I'm 4 years into having my panels/battery installed and 3years out for my break even point at which point every dollar I save will be profit. When I eventually sell, the 4.1% increase will be in addition to the profit I've already realized. And 4.1% on my $450 home is $18K. My total cost after getting 30% back in solar tax credit was just over $19k. I earned the difference back after about 6months. What you all consider a scam is a no brainer from a numbers perspective. I'm grateful every month when I get my electric bill that we decided to get solar. And I know he was talking about appraised value. Hence my comments about finding a new appraiser if they don't consider solar in their appraisal figures.
Some good points but again it depends on where you live. I definitely agree that you should buy your solar and get a single party roofer/installer. I did this back in 2012 and there has been no issue. Also, the math depends on where you are in the country. Here in California, sun is common and the price of electricity is through the roof. Also, it is a myth that you need a huge system to eliminate your electric bill. Even a small system can reduce your bill dramatically by moving you down the tiered pricing structure. As a TH-camr, you speak well but I recommend getting a better microphone. Take a look at the Blue Yetti. It is inexpensive, USB and it sounds really good.
The only way our math worked out was if the power company buys our excess during the day at full price and they do. With out that it would have been a very questionable investment. ( Our panels have now paid for themselves and are giving us free power, but not all solar installations do this in a reasonable amount of time)
The price of solar panels is coming down fast. So every example from a few years ago, should be more expensive than today. We always have to exclude scams, they are not relevant to judge real pricing. I talk her about prices without subsidies, as subsidies are mostly lower than a few years ago. Solar panels are also getting more effective, with new generations coming on the market.
For people doing things themselves, there is a growing market for used solar panels out there, sometimes it pays to buy the used converters too. I would assume that in the future you will find companies that deal with used solar panels, and install them for you. When there is a market somebody will exploit it, like with used cars.
The problems with solar for homeowners are mostly wrong design, usually bigger than reasonable, the electrical providers, wrong installations and so on. Of course there are areas where solar panels do not pay for themselves. But here in Europe we start to see solar panels in the south of Sweden, Finland, Norway and the Baltic countries, hardly very sol rich countries. Stockholm is as far north as northern Labrador.
Or, you know, pay 4% interest cause 6% is insane. And do this on a 5 year load not a 22 year. Only stupid people would do a 22 year loan.
I installed solar on both of my houses. The solar compay did the roofs and solar together. They stripped the old roofing paper from both roofs and installed a new rubber roof before installing the solar panels. My systems are 8 kw and cover my entire elctrity use. I only pay $20 monthly for electric bills, and that cost is to tie to the grid. My houses are grid tied. I bought my systems out cash. After tax incentives, my end cost will break even in just five years, and I'm already in for 4 years. The systems and my roofs are guaranteed by the solar company for 25 years. In my opinion, solar is a no-brainer. I will caution all. Make sure to check with an accountant before going solar. If you aren't obligated to pay State and Federal taxes, you will never see the tax incentives/tax credits that make solar cost effective to the homeowner.
Thank you. Ppl are re+arded
Looked into getting solar in Virginia. It wouldn't be a loss if you had all the cash on hand but they kill you on the loans. The companies are more loan salesman than energy.
This seems fair.
Think about this also, we paid cash ($18,000 ) for our panels and we are happy with them , but how much could we have made by investing that money, really is no right or wrong here, just do the math before getting involved, we would not have done it unless the power company buys our excess and they do.
The banks fees and finance charge is 30% to 40% of the system cost.
Don't blame the companies, blame yourself for not having enough cash to buy outright. No one is required to loan u money at no interest
We paid cash, but think about this , we could have invested that money with our other investments and made interest on it while getting a loan. Not to mention when we reached into our investments and now that put us in a higher tax bracket. Many things to consider The lesson learning never ends. @@altered_beast
The main reason Solar pays off faster than it seems like it would at first, is that utility bills have been rising rapidly, faster than inflation. 14% in 2022 alone.
You folks are lucky. Electricity and gas prices more than trebled in Britain in 2023. My monthly DD for electricity alone went from under £50 to over £150. That's about 16% of my personal income. This small terraced house has 6 rooms with no A/C, no central heating, but good thermal insulation. Many people in Britain are paying a lot more than me.
@@RWBHere That's awful. I don't know much about how Britain prices electricity, but I have heard that between Brexit and Russia, imported fuel is an issue.
Better consider the age of your roof before adding the panels, remember too that your roof won't be any better off after they install the panels. If your roof is just old or in any way suspect, it would be better to replace it before you add the panels. Remember too that installing the panels will probably void your roof warranty and in any case they will not pay to remove and reinstall the panels due to any repair. Next consider the layout of your roof, if it does not face mostly southward, the output of the panels will be drastically reduced, the salesman will not tell you this. Next consider where you live, south Florida, sunny Caliofornicate, Hawaii, or Arizona are great for solar, Dakota is not. Also places that get a lot of rain or cloudy weather, getting north of about 45 degrees of north latitude is where the output numbers start failing, especially during the winter months, both low sun angles and short days are to blame for this. Most utilities do not want to buy back your surplus power and if they do it won't be are the rate you pay for power in most cases. Actually many utilities don't actually generate power rather the buy it and transport it to your house or from your house and they bill for this service, power buyback is based on only the rate of their power purchase. Charging an electric vehicle will depend on how much it is used and would be best during the peak daylight hours.
It depends on many variables. In California when they had NEM 2.0 going, it was a no brainer. Your system would usually pay for itself in about 5 to 6 years and then energy would basically be free. Nowadays, due to awful politicians the incentives are far less. A system now takes 10 to 15 years to pay for itself so you may be better off investing elsewhere.
Get a battery. It's double price but you get backup which is worth it
@@AgentOffice As I said the investment break-even moved from 5 to 6 years to 10 to 15 years depending and some will never break even. This is why solar installation on existing homes in California fell by 80 percent since NEM 3.0 came into effect, which facilitated the loss of 17,000 installer jobs this year. In most cases it is no longer a good financial decision as you'd be better off putting your money into an index fund or etf. I understand the need for energy storage but the utilities only paying a quarter of what your power is worth is a travesty and they are pushing for even more anti-consumer laws and it looks like they're going to get them to. This is about power, they "Utilities and Government" want to be the gatekeepers. There were a dozen ways to address the NEM 2.0 problem and they chose the most anti-consumer of them all.
All I learned is to buy my solar panels so I can take them with me when I move out.
Have no Idea what Country you live in but in Australia those Solar Panels you have are yours, they cost money, yep your Money and should you move out you can do what you like with them
If you do you lease your solar panels or take a pay-off loan you don’t actually own them until they’re fully paid off. You will however be required to pay the outstanding balance and take ownership of your solar but if decide to move house, those panels you now own can’t easily be removed and reused.
@@graemekeeley4497 every solar pane can be reused, including the needed stuff for the electrical installation. You can even buy used solar panels today, a good way for people that do not want to invest to much, or take out a big loan.
Nothing you do adds value to your home. That swimming pool. Nope. Even when you remodel the kitchen you will not get that money back in the sale price of your home.
kitchen does the reason a pool doesnt is because not everybody wants a pool but everybody wants a kitchen.
The greatest scam sold to Americans was real estate. A house made in the late 19th century will bleed energy or you're stuck heating and cooling your home before the advent of AC. Even my parents' house made in the late 80s at the middling cost can't hold a candle to modern insulation technology. The place I'm renting now feels like a window is open when I know there isn't.
@@zachmoyer1849it depends on what you do. All houses have a kitchen. If you upgrade with expensive stuff you will never get out of it what you put in.
Do you own stock in Duke Energy? I only have a minimum bill to pay, because I oversized my system for future consumption of a EV.
I'm looking at a solar system with battery to do two things... Reduce or eliminate monthly cost of power, and have a reliable source of power. The problem: Power here in the rural areas is VERY unreliable. My first year in this house as an example: 8 power outages. Several were in the 4-5 hour range. 2 were 4 days long each. Running a generator to keep the fridge running and have a light or two was a royal pain. Looking at whole house generation, I investigated... and found that a 350 gallon propane tank would be needed for a 3 day run time. Then about $1000 to refill the tank ...and a problem being it may not get refilled until after the power outage. There is no piped in gas... I suppose I could go with diesel, but it's still a problem. The inverter and battery will be in a to-be-installed utility shed behind the house...transfer switch on the outside of the house...Solar sales folk really don't like talking to me.. I'm a retired engineer and when they start generating the bull effluent I laugh at them....
I have a similar situation with a 250 Gallon propane tank, running a 7KW generator through a transfer switch. In practice, I don't use it, until I know the power is going to be out for a while. Even then, I don't run all of the circuits on the generator, so I can probably go 10 days without needing a propane fill-up. Most outages are not that long.
One thing: a standard electric water heater can overwhelm this size of generator, so I have a heat-pump water heater that can run on half wattage if necessary.
In my state, you pay market rate for electricity $0.12-0.14/kw-h anything you sell to the grid, you get $0.026-0.031/kw-h.
The only way solar ever breaks even is if you install it yourself on a tight budget with federal incentives and install battery to cover your own usage. Selling back to the grid isn't cost effective.
I might build a solar system on a new home to completely avoid having to pay for grid hookup.
I'm in Texas in a very sunny area. We received a quote that was what we paid for the home almost 20 years ago. Yes, we're still in the same house. The quote for solar, to offset our usage 100%, even though we'd still be on grid overnight, and we do have net metering in our area, was for somewhere around $93,000. You didn't read that wrong, and I didn't type it wrong. Based on our energy usage, that was the quote we received, and without any sort of storage. No battery pack at all.
The system would have been financed for 25 years. The payments on the system would have been more than our average electric bill. If, for some reason, we decided not to put the entire tax credit toward the loan, the payments would almost double. All for a 25 year loan. It would have cost us a massive amount more than staying on grid to go solar, so we declined the offer. I'm not opposed to solar, but systems need to get much more efficient and quite a bit cheaper.
What's worse is the warranty solar companies provide only covers defects. It doesn't cover weather damage. That means an increase to home owner insurance to cover the solar panels. So more money out of pocket on an investment just to, hopefully, save money on electricity. It wasn't a good quote and definitely wasn't the right time.
All that to say that you got a bad quote. That number is 10x the national average for a 100% system after tax credits. It's 3x the highest prices in the country. You can't tell me that you wouldn't pull the trigger on a $10k system that breaks down your electric bill with a system that most folks can pay off in a few years, right?
@@allenklingsporn6993 What part of "I'm not opposed to solar" was unclear. Great job stating the obvious. Did it make you feel good to sound so condescending?
@@grahf4077it’s not condescending, you received a bad quote and quit all together. Over the next 20-30 years 100k+ of your hard earned cash is gonna go to the utility company. Find a local company with 5 star reviews more than likely they are using local credit lenders for reasonable rates and shorter terms. Sounds like you got an estimate from a major corporate company and had a rep that was trying to crack you over the head
@@ps3alphagamer12 Your comment assumes I just got a quote and, your words, "quit". I did quite a lot of research. I looked up prices for panels and researched all I could from a DIY perspective. Even that is prohibitively expensive. The claim that 100% of a person's income will go to electricity is just plain fear mongering. The point is that solar for my usage is horrifically expensive and the time to recover the cost of installation alone is not worth it, and that would be if I paid out of pocket up front and did as much of the installation as I could myself. Bad quote? Possibly, even probably. Better out there? Not that service my area, and overall pricing is simply not great so it's not a good choice right now.
Keep it off grid with ground mount solar arrays and get out of the loop of the scammers.It’s very DIY friendly and breaks even much sooner. Most of us in Texas have the space or the option to leave the ghetto. Yee Ha !
Totally, agree with you on all of your points. I own my home and I paid cash for my solar system as South Carolina doesn't offer friendly assistance to home owner construction projects. Solar is simple to install but because the permitting is such, the solar companies are making a killing just as you pointed out. I purchased solar because of one point you did not mention as most do not. I installed it as I have an electric car and the difference in electricity vs. gasoline will pay for my system before the warrantee runs out on my vehicle's battery. The extra I get beyond the car or the increase in electricity in the future is just icing on the cake. Thank you for your presentation as I wish I would have heard it 2 years ago when I began the task of wading through all of salesman BS before finalizing my decision.
In my country for northern Europe, I pay roughly 10c per kWh in energy taxes and transmission fees. Plus whatever the electricity price is (between 5c and 25c depending on season and day). Meanwhile I can get a 10 kW solar array + 5 kWh battery + equipment and installation labor for ~$12.5k, total. The array produces ~11 MWh electricity per year.
So, let's say my panels last for a mere 20 years. This means a total of 220 MWh produced during the panels full life. This is ~6c per kWh. if I keep the array 30 years, that is ~4c per kWh.
Every kWh I use that is generated from my solar roof saves me 40-60% in transmission costs alone, and 120-150% of the transmission cost if I include the electricity price. And if I don't use it?
I sell the excess energy for even more cost savings. Let us say electricity + transmission costs are on average 20c. Then I will reach break even with 90 MWh produced.
something else to consider is if you have trees around your home. just because your roof faces south might not be a good enough reason if you have trees that block the sun in certain seasons. adequate placement is important, and not all solar companies care enough to do the research about which area of your roof gets the most sun
Click bait title, with some nuggets of helpful suggestions. I bought my panels with cash, and after the tax credit it was $18k. The pay off period was 12 years when we bought them, but now it is closer to 10 since the cost of energy has gone up, so what we generate has more value then it did. I do sell excess power back to the grid. I don't have a battery so no maintenance. I put it over the garage so if it leaks it won't ruin living space, and it was done over a new roof. I also plan on being in this house for 20 years or more. And if I were buying a house, I would absolutely pay extra if there were two identical houses, but one had paid off solar that would save me hundreds a month.
The summary of the video should be: Don't lease. Pay with cash if possible. Consider the maintenance cost of a battery. Consider the pay off period. Ensure you get the tax credit. Consider the location of the installation. Consult the utility company for feeding back to the grid and the rates they give.
Instead the summary of the video is: Don't do solar, it is a scam. Which is absolutely not true.
sunrun installed a defective roof on my home and couldn't find an in house contractor to fix it during DRIVING RAINS. I was told by sunrun that I should hire my own contractor and they will reimburse me. I was forced to do that under duress because of the immediacy of the untended to emergency of the lead. But when further damage became revealed and more leaks occured, they refused to repair the newly discovered damage all over the entirety of the roof. Many construction errors. Now I Have to pay for my own repairs to the tune of over $7000
I like the content. I appreciate your perspective, especially on helping me understand the loan angle of these systems. Constructive criticism: it would be an improvement to invest in a better microphone that is closer to your body. Sound quality on this video is about a C.
Best
Wait this is dumb…if you’re paying 75 dollars a month less after you install it who cares about the break even point. You are paying less monthly! I wasn’t looking to add value or break even as long as I pay less monthly and it last till the house needs a new roof then my bills are less😊
As a current worker for a local Solar company in NC, this is a great video to watch if you're considering it, but most of what he's talking about are the workings of older Solar companies when it comes to Sales pitch and His myth busters part. We are a pretty new company, and the older ones around about 10 - 15 years old are moving out of town, while we are booming. Alot of our work which does include tree removal and roofing, is all taken into account at signing costs and insured under our 25 year warranty. which covers ALL DAMAGE done to any personal property. I could go on, but research is crucial also when it comes to what company you are dealing with.
so... if you're a BUYER, look for free solar homes! (avoid the 3rd party panel arrangements)
fights inflation - sun energy isn't going up.
This is bullshit. Im autistic. I tinker with motors and batteries and until recently solar. I did everything. I put 1600 watts of solar on my box truck and 100w on my personal vehicle. Personal vehicle makes around 300wh a day. Box truck made 2kw and it was 100% CLOUDS all day. They lay flat. I dont even use the tilt system as they produce more than enough power I could ever need.
This is more about shitty companies and people. Solar is cheap now. You can get them under a $/watt now. Its now literally cheaper than ANY OTHER way to make power. Solar has expanded massively prices have never been this reasonable. Its shattered estimates. Solar is hear to stay. Just do it urself and skip all the bullshit like negativity and scams
I like your logic. Solar is cheap. I like his logic. Solar is a poorly understood market. It is not a "no brainer".
i agree with statying there and the cost of having someone install it all is a rip off (23k in equip, they want $96k and my tax credit!!) - BUT my elec last year was 250/year, this year it's 370!!
And there is an energy credit for every KW installed.
still evaluating solar. I"m a heavy user of electricity-shop, 4 furnaces (well, heat pumps), an EV...would love to reduce the cost or never see it go up at least!
As with everything, it depends. I've had customers who love it and have saved a ton of money because they did their research and read their contracts. Ive had customers that didnt do their research or read their contracts and they come to find out it wasnt a good idea in their situation.
Wow. Thank you!
I wish everybody could watch this video before they got into this solar scam. They must look at their bills and see if they really 'benefit' from it. I took over a lease from previous owner and every month I'm negative $150, although I generate 700KWH and only use 300KWH
in some places the panels are not insurable and have even been forced to be removed so check that before you start, like any thing how you do it will set your return. I have a friend why put up his him self and ordered the panels direct he ordered much more than he needed and sold off the extras reducing his cost, it paid for its self in 3 yrs hes on a farm and power outages happen more often due to age and wind he though that made it worth while
Thank you Shawn for making this video.
I've been considering a whole home battery "generator" for my home, and thus am actively researching brands, sizes, options, efficiency, cost, and so forth. Many of these systems offer or suggest solar panels for recharging, "offsetting" or extending the amount of time that you can run your home on the battery unit. Sounds good, right???
While my home is paid off, I also know that I want to move in the next 5 to 10 years, and traditional gas/diesel/natural gas generators are "nice, but don't add value on the resale end" I figured the battery "generator" would be the same, so I want one that I can take with me. The longer I have it, the better my ROI will be.
This gets into the solar panel options that many offer. Like you, I'm not opposed to green energy, but I also won't throw my money at something that doesn't make sense and isn't fiscally responsible (thus taking a 20 year loan on the home instead of a 30, and paying it off early!). I knew that solar panels didn't add value, that some (many) the solar companies roaming the streets are poorly trained at best, and blatant scam artists at worse, I had heard a few of the lease issues, but you completed that circle for me, and I know that some insurance companies won't insure, or require additional coverage and add exclusions, for solar panels (leak risks, roofing material damage, fire risks, etc.).
My primary intention for the battery "generator" is to have something to power key portions of the home during power outages, so I'm thinking I don't actually need solar panels, nor do I want the mounted on my house or shed/garage.
Ok then solar install companies suck . Just do it yourself and learn something I installed maintain and produce 90% of my own power on a 3300 sq ft home . Pay off is 5.1 years for mine and I have battery backup 5 days worth
Not everything is about adding value to your home. Most home updates don't add value to a home on a dollar to dollar basis. Solar might not make sense when it comes to home value, but solar itself is clearly not a scam.
Solar is becomes cheaper over time in many different aspects. I also wouldn't call it a scam because there is no bait and switch. The facts are laid out on the table. I think even this video would make a great selling tool for an agent trying to sell honestly.
When are you going to tackle one of the bigger cons out there ... the building of equity via home ownership?
Man, I can't agree. We're selling and moving to a rural area - we will viably be able to pay cash for our next home. Husband is a plumber and I work out of the house, so no daycare for our kids, and we make most of our dinners from home. We shop at Aldi and buy frozen. Dollar Store decor for Christmas. Christmas bonus check goes to home updates for the sale. It's tight, but we're doing it.
@@sitcomchristian6886, Okay if you are already in a financial position to pay cash, you don't need homeownership to build equity you already have it. What I was alluding to is, relators often cite building equity as a good reason to buy a home. Now if you are staring at 7% on the mortgage and property taxes of $3-4k, you better hope like hell you don't have any major home repairs or you are in a white hot market.
This is one of the most intelligent and in-depth assessments of solar that I have seen on TH-cam so far. This guy knows his stuff. Listen to him.
Great Video. Truth!
Most of your points seemed valid but I think you double counted the costs of the 'take out a loan' to own scenario. The $160 cost per month is the entire non-maintenance cost of the system. If your average energy bill exceeds that $160 then each dollar of that savings is money in the bank for you.
On the other hand, if you end up selling your house before those 20 years are up then you will probably have a loss that would need to be offset against those savings if, as you point out, the solar roof will not increase the houses sales price. Calculating the size of that loss might say that after 8 years you've paid about $6,000 of that original $22,000. Then you would need to save about $145 dollars per month on your energy bill to break even (ignoring the interest you might consider yourself to have earned on those monthly savings for those 8 years).
thanks for the info.
I like solar but for me i can pay for them with out borrowing.
Also i installed my own panels, break even is about 7 years.
For everyone else its a bad idea.
Dude, you're looking at it only from the perspective of house seller. And I'm not sure where you got your numbers, but from my experience of civil engineer, I have to say return is generály between 6 and 8 years. And Once you commit to this investment, you are likely styling in that house.
Solar is definetly worth it in sunny states.
Interesting , Thank You .
My solar is paying for itself! With a electric car and ac. Its a no brainier.
Put a geothermal heat pump in. Watch your electricity bill drop. Also the government has caused the increase in the cost of solar panels. 3 years ago I could buy a 10k kit for less than 8k now its 17k.
Panel costs have gone down significantly. Do you happen to know what caused the price increases? Inverter components perhaps?
Like anything, It's a great deal for some, not as good for others. In my case it saved me nearly a thousand a year. Experiences may vary. Do your homework. It might just save you more.
well you did mention that this is in US .... in Europe especialy est part of it only idiots do lones for leeses ... we usualy go for of grid in low voltage or if it is on grid we just want to lower the monthly pay to energy or eliminated and not to get money for it
This guy is obviously anti-solar because he is biased because hes personally lost real estate deals because certain buyers didnt want to buy someone elses solar system. Solar makes sense for 90% of homeowners in any state with high utility rates and gets a lot of sunshine
I agree with almost everything he said except the conclusion. The only way you can recover the investment is use all the power generated at peak production and in a large installation.
To use all the production it likely will have to be stored in batteries to wait for peak demand.
It has to be large because the basic equipment,labor and permits is a significant expense before considering purchasing and installation of panels.
Grid-tie only makes sense economically where there is a huge time shift in KWH prices a you are compensated accordingly.For that reason it makes more sense to use batteries and off-grid inverters and sell it back to yourself in high demand hours after sundown.
My electric power contract charges about double the average rate from 6:00am-8:00pm then free at night. Guess how I have the timer set to connect the grid to my inverter/charger!
Of course I have self installed panels working during the day so the battery stays in the upper end of state-of-charge.
I would hesitate to put panels on a non metal roof.
Spend money on education and training to DIY as much as possible. Put the panels on ground mount if possible.
I love how all the comments from people who have solar are saying you're wrong lol If youre jealous and mad at the people in the industry making 10xs the month youre making- just say that lol 😅😅
all this will be less of an issue as prices come down.
Who cares about home values when installing solar, you totally missed the point.
It sounds like you have no idea what you are talking about.
We are saving the planet
You beauty
The only reason I’m looking at solar is by paying cash and living in my forever home I’m offsetting risk towards the backend. If I get Tesla Solar Roof and +50% of my average with a propane backup generator I shouldn’t ever need monthly bills outside of food and water (other than property taxes).
@carloldfield8897 shh. No you're not
He's an estate agent - he can't help being hopelessly venal.
Man, is this wrong!
Great video! Thanks.
It seems that the homeowner assumes all of the risk with purchasing and installing solar panels while the solar company laughs all the way to the bank.
Pro tip: get a microphone near the speaker. The audio sucks. While I agree with the assessment, I wonder why you are so gung-ho against solar. Are the power companies financing this video?
to just make a blanket statement about a subject with so many variables is irresponsible and baseless.
Great comment! I urge you to actually watch the full 12 minute video where I explain the variables :)
@@livingincharlestonsuburbs then "solar is a scam" should not be the title.
Real issues for me, power goes out right now, within a few hours ComEd has it up again, I do not get a bill....PV goes down....guess who gets the bill. Next is Net metering, not only will it increase your insurance, but the contract you sign forces you to carry insurance...which I have no personal need for homeowners insurance, it is a huge ripoff...Lastly, if someone steals anything or damages it....I would have to pay for it.
The biggest downside for most people is that the power is produced when you are not home to be able to use it.
The power grids have the same issue where other methods run 24/7
Incorrect. Net metering accrues the generated electricity not consumed in your utility account as credit
Incorrect. Net metering takes effect
WOW. Like... you didn't even TRY to address climate change. You do know that's actually the reason people want solar panels, right?
Make your own video about the global warming hoax. This was a very informative video about the detriments of assuming solar is a fiscally responsible action.
bullshit
solar panel is good if you live in a cave
I would agree with this sentiment.
So in all cases they void your roof warranty
Not true at all
We went to sell a house that had solar. When the appraised the house they didn't factor them in so just before we sold we showed the house to a couple and they wanted to buy. We told them we were taking the solar out because it wasn't appart of thr appraisal therefore wouldn't be considered in the sale. Told them to take it up with realistate company and go fuck themselves.