Renault Dropped The Ball ON The Renault ZOE AGAIN!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 มิ.ย. 2024
- Its No April fools its July 2022 and Renault are making some crazy changes to the renault zoe ze50. This includes bringing back a NON CCS rapid charge version of the Zoe ZE 50kwh and instead of calling it CCS or rapid charge they will call it a ZE50 Boost Charge they do something even crazier and that's they decide to change the naming of the Renault Zoe model ranges dropping the known GT Line and calling it a Techno. Then making a higher spec Zoe ZE 50 and calling it Iconic is the middle line spec in the zoe. I suggest Renault bring back CCS to all cars and instead make a new shape Renault Zoe ZE50 but with a 40 kWh battery and they could either then sell a battery swap or sell the 50kwh battery and software lock it.
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00:00 Renault Zoe ZE50 News
00:27 Renault Zoe Models
01:27 Non CCS Renault Zoe Boost Charge
02:07 22kw Charging Capple EVs
03:02 Renault Zoe ZE50 New Models
04:50 Stupid Renault Model Naming
07:10 Zoe ZE50 Pricing
08:11 Zoe Sales Not As High As They Could
09:24 Renault Zoe for under £25k
10:54 Zoe ZE50 As A 40kWh Zoe Software
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As the owner of a ZE40 with 22kW charging only, I definitely wouldn't buy a car without CCS, but I probably wouldn't buy another Zoe with a 40kWh battery either. The reason is that while I think CCS is a necessity for future proofing, right now it's still possible to end up queueing for chargers even with CCS, so I'd take the extra range and hope to reduce the number of times I need to charge, even on long journeys.
Given the cost to change, I probably wouldn't buy a new Zoe now anyway, IMO the alternatives are more compelling than a £30k Zoe.
Renault have always been confusing on charge rates on the Zoe in my view , this ccs fiasco is just BONKERS !
Great video nick 👏
The confusion makes expert help all the more important. Thanks 😊
@@PJWey Its why buying off people like myself and JP is ultra important now
Why would you spend £32,000 on a Zoe when you can buy an MG ZS EV for £32,000? 🤷🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
Some people don't want to own MG ZS?
@@NicolasRaimo True, but as far as value for money is concerned, it’s a no-brainer… Much bigger car for the same money?! My daughter and I visited our local Renault garage & they couldn’t care less about selling us a car… Shocking service to potential new customers 🤦🏻♂️
I got my Zoe brand new for £23,000 last year. I couldn’t get an MG ZS anywhere near that price
@@cloggsy1971 The was my experience with a Renault Zoe, bought an eNiro instead, massively better customer service.
@evaskitas1947 only the ZS HAS A 45 week lead time. The MG4 SE SR has an 8 week lead, the SE LR has a 14 to 16 week lead, as does the Trophy. The new MG5 has a 14 week lead…
The ‘proof of the pudding’ will be in Zoe sales figures. For me I purchased my Zoe GT line with CCS option 2 years ago and even then I would never buy a car without rapid charge. If I was buying from scratch today I would not pay extra costly paint colours finishes to pay extra for CCS but the car must have bi-direction charging e.g EV to grid and 300mile range but similar size car, CCS charging should be ‘bog’ standard like heated rear window and ABS.
Suggesting that Renault would be removing CCS charging in order to lower their sales price is pure nonsense! Sales prices are not based on cost+. Sales prices are based on what the market will bear.
Yep, agree, our 40Kw Zoe was more than ample for our needs, with CCS it would have much more useable when we occasionally did a longer drive. If we were to purchase another, I'd rather pay £25k for 40Kw and CCS than £30k for 50Kw and no CCS.
if my 25k was off at it was 28,000 for 40kwh with ccs would you still go for that?
@@NicolasRaimo I'd still see that as a better option than 50kwh and no CCS. 40kwh is enough for 2 hours of driving and with CCS you can top up as you have a coffee and off you go. With 22kwh you'll be there for ages. Of course it depends on the journey and availability of CCS chargers. In our experience, faster charging rather than a larger battery is a better option on longer journeys.
The Chinese will wipe the floor with them, no CCS ? No Sale
Facepalm moment. CCS should be standard on all new EV's A lack of this makes the Zoe unsuitable for long road trips unless you're not in any hurry. I only have 22kw AC on my ZE40 so I know how challenging longer journeys can be. I would not even consider owning another Zoe, I feel that Renault are just waiting for the Renault 5 replacement, plus they have their new premium Megane E-Tech. Regarding battery size, 40kwh is more than enough for my needs. Couple that with 100kw DC charging I would be more than happy 👍
It really depends on what you want your car for. I've owned a ZE50 for over a year, I commute nearly 100 miles per day but have still never charged the car away from home. It has the range to go everywhere I need it to and if I go away on holiday etc I do not want to drive at all!
Statistics on EVs show that most people charge at home. So why pay extra for CCS? If you think you need the CCS option; what you probably actually need is a more suitable car.
At £30k I'm surprised Renault are selling any Zoes at all. Just order a Meganne etech everybody.
It’s a top spec model is 40k and lower spec 35k
I think the Zoe has had its day . I think the replacement will be the retro Renault 5 electric seen the concept and it looks amazing . Can’t wait for it to come out in 2025
As you say Renault are nuts. I thought they were stopping the ZOE? A non CCS option is stupid and regressive. Model naming illogical. Best thing they can do is fit the proper side head airbags from ZE40, keep all safety features and drop the starting price to £25,000, ZOEs are grossly overpriced and ruled out by many buyers due to safety concerns and high prices
The main way they’ve suffered is due to a lack of vision in top management since Carlos Ghosn was ousted. Nissan and Renault squandered their lead gained under his visionary steering.
I came across some fellow Zoe owners up the M5 and they didn't realise they didn't have CCS when they compared to mine standing next door to them. Quite disappointing for a lot of people. The first thing I checked when I picked mine up because was worried the sales team may get it wrong... Will they be putting the airbags back in, they deleted? I saw the new MeganE in a presentation, it's lovely.
Omg no css wtf
I Paid a extra £750 for AC43 on my Renault Zoe 40kW Q90 in June 2017.
So at the time charging on Ecotricity was ok as there was plenty of AC 43 chargers around .
Now Gridserve has installed 22kW posts and if there is 2 sockets on a stand alone post you will only get 11kW as the power is shared.
Orprey chargers only output 16kW on there AC sockets same as some Swarco chargers.
BP pulse and some older Lidl Rapids still have AC 43 on them. 👍
Luckily Mer , Raw charging and Connected Kerb install 22kW so all is not lost.
If I could pay to update my Zoe 40 to CCS I would do it in a heartbeat that would give me more choices of where to charge.
Finland 2020. Got my Zoe 50 top spec full equipment (minus the Bose) with 36 K - 2 K govt. subsidy. Today 2022 september, the same spec (but with the weak motor, as the strong motor isn't available any more) is 41,5 K - 0 K govt subsidy (they ended). Jesus FC man! After 10 years in production you'd think the price starts dropping slowly as they recouped their one time investment costs and they would just try to sell as much quantity as they can, I don't understand wtf is their strategy especially with the disgusting silent removal of side bags. Scumbags.
Apart from 17 inch wheels (and decals and gold bits) what else has the Iconic Boost got compared to Zoe GT line +. ? Do they both have same speaker system and equaliser system for music? Do they both do apple play wirelessly? Different suspension? Anything else? Thanks.
Totally agree Nick 40 kWH CCS would be great. Especially if the could up the charge rate.
There is no way I'm buying a car with a zero euroNap score.
Hi Nick - A few other vehicles are capable of charging at 22kW AC including the Smart EQ forfour + fortwo, LEVC TX +VN5, Audi e-tron 55 incl 55 sportback, and the Porsche Taycan. The Smart & LEVC vehicles offer it as standard whereas the others offer it as an optional upgrade.
Hi Nick - In principal your ‘40kWh method’ for keeping a CCS model under £30k works, howevere I’m pretty sure that the ZE50 already has the identical battery to the ZE40. Only difference is that ZE40 has a far larger chunk of pack capacity software locked down to 41kWh. After Renault had gained data from the ZE40 fleet they unlocked more of the battery for the ZE50. This hopefully means that we ZE40 owners have a battery that will go ‘forever’ having never been (truly) deeply charged / discharged. All the best.
That's not correct, The pack is the same size and dimensions just as the 22kwh battery was but as technology as improved capacity and chemistry has meaning you can fit more modals in the same space
The gen II Zoe (ZE40 up to 2019) has a different battery cell compared to ZE22 and ZE50. They all still have the 96*2 (2P96S) build of the battery pack.
But gen 1 (ZE22) can have a ZE40 (gen II) battery as a replacement (with software upgrade). A gen II ZE40 Zoe can not have a ZE50 battery as they are different (mechanical and/or electrical (like BMS or its communication with the BMS).
But I do not know enough about the gen III ZE40 battery to understand how it differs from the ZE50 battery. It could be the cell type (same as the old gen II ZE40) or that it is a "software downgrade". But I doubt that it is because of fewer cells. Every cell weighs about 990g so if so it would be 66kg lighter compared to the ZE50 as curb weight. Having less cells would make the drive train and charging etc more complicated and make a huge mess regarding firmware.
I'd upgrade my ZE40 to have CCS. I don't mind having type 2 22kW charging but the charging time reduction would be a benefit
some good idea here Nick.....sadly as a non ccs no head lateral airbag zoe owner.
Yes the Smart #1 does indeed come with a 22KW onboard AC charger as standard plus 150KW DC rapid. This will be my next car the tech is awesome. ✅
I can’t see any mention of any DC rapid chargers on smart?
@@NicolasRaimo search EV-Database Smart #1
Agreed. The Zoe definitely needs the CCS charging as newer chargers don't support the 43kw AC
We have the Twingo ZE and it has 22kw too and no CCS
It's great without CCS in Ireland. All the public slow chargers are 22Kwh so takes max 2.5 hours which isn't far off CCS
Peugeot did something similar with the e208 - renamed top 2 trim levels from from GT Line & GT, to GT then GT Premium - so if you buy a second hand e208 GT you have to check the year it was made, as GT could be one of either 2 different trim levels (albeit the top 2)
I had a ZE40, battery size was fine, I only changed it because it didn't have CCS and 22kwh AC was unworkable in winter or for longer journeys. If I could've swapped out the ZE40 charge port for ZE50 CCS I would have done.
My new EV has a usable 46Kw battery and 100kwh CCS, 180 miles range is plenty for most of my journeys. It also cost a lot less than the ZE50 with a more up to date look.
There seems to be lots of 22KW AC chargers in France, I'm going to Normandy next week and it seems that the charging options are quite different to the UK. There is Ionity at 350KW, very little at 100 or 50, then a whole load of units with 24kw CCS and 22KW Type 2, I guess it's related to how the grid is configured in France. Doesn't make sense to sell that spec in RHD for the UK though, but I guess I can se why they sell non CCS cars in France.
I sold my Ze40 out of boredom. The Ze50 with the R135 and decent headlights an improvement but the 208 a way better drive in my opinion. I think the Zoe needs a massive refresh and I am not interested in them at all now. The 50 kw charging option is still behind the competition. EVs in general are currently so expensive and the lack of convertibles means I will stick to the ten year old SLK that replaced my Zoe. Great video, what are Renault thinking?
I thought the Zoe was being dropped from the Renault range.
Last few UK Renault adverts promoting the ZE line up that I've seen have not included the Zoe. Maybe that is why sales are down 🤔
Just bought a Zoe 50 GT line and quite happy with not having the CCS charging, I live in Wales and just studied the Zap Map and found more 22kw AC chargers than rapids and as the buying second hand price for a low mileage 2020 plate car it does want I want, Most of the time I run it for FREE as have solar panels at home or use the GO Rate on Octopus
I got my Iconic R135 CCS for £10000 cheaper(before trade-in), than the 32k list price anyway since it was a Pre-registered one..
i have the 43kw way they riped out the chargers?
The Q motor that chargers at 43kw via AC online, these chargers are not common in public like they once were sadly being replaced by 22kw and sometimes 11kw
In France the different trims are named Life, Zen, Intens (which are already english words), so why use Play, Iconic and GT in the UK ? It gives work to advertising people, but other than that...
Marketing people like buzz words? Seriously not a clue
Yup marketing people, that's why in 1 country blue is the free option and others it's red ...
I have the rapid charge 52kwh 135 version, have not used rapid charging even once. Most of the time pluginng got a 22kwh is enough to get going wherever you need to go. I can understand them selling without rapid charging for cheaper. If it really saves up a good amount of money I would probably even consider it.
New cars with 22 kW AC (or possibility to it) are Renault Megane E-Tech and Nissan Araya.
If someone buys an EV without first checking out the charging times and costs then (in Dutch) "ze zijn niet goed snik"... 😁
So which model has all the safety spec /airbags and 5 star rating?
Non have 5 star rating currently sold due to airbag change
@@NicolasRaimo You would think that would be the first thing they change for the better instead of confusing people even more..you would almost think they do not want to really sell the Zoe!
Agree all cars should have CCS.
Etron has 22kw but not sure if standard
Hopefully Renault see sense and fix all these issues for 2023 builds.
Doubtful the airbag for example would need a full re--testing and cert and thats millions! the zoe will be retired soon anyway
Ncap text should be given more time , dc not as fast as should be , 100 dc would be a big seller, and sporty
Some of the premium EVs now offer 22kW on-board chargers as an option (for example the Audi e-tron or Porsche Taycan).
Totally agree with you though - a smaller battery ZOE with CCS would make sense. One would think that especially when cost of raw materials is going through the roof, that’s a route Renault would consider…?
should be standard on premium cars really!
Yes 40kWh with CCS would be very appealing
22kw is great for destination parking/charge. CCS is essential for long distance. 52kwh battery is far better for range than other competitors (we travelled to the Lakes from Essex with one re-charge). Reducing competition for CCS is why the 22kwh is very useful.
Renault 5 - the zoe will be transitioned to this car for the 50yrs celebration.
If the lease prices on it are crazy low, you'll find companies will get them for local staff journeys. Charge them overnight. Agree though, it's daft as the cost of having to fit TWO separate lines of Zoe can't be saving much. Renault and Nissan have gone bonkers since a certain CEO was smuggled out of Japan.
Compare this to the MG4 spec and prices and the Zoe suddenly will need a revamp and radical discounting to stay competitive.
Renault might argue MG don't compare to them, they could argue the Dacia brand is aimed at MG market
The Twingo has 22kW AC and the new Nissan will too. But that's about it I think. U know what would sell more Zoes maybe? 100kW rapid charging. Or a lower price since let's face it, a 2x increase in battery that's now 10x cheaper while the car remains basically the same... They could sell it for less.
Hi Nic, thx for the video, is it possible to speak to you for some advice on my energy suppliers and considering installing a wall box.
My website and youtube channel should contain all the info you need for both. Evnick.com/charge contains quick link to charging information... And Evnick.com/energy about energy suppliers who are you currently with? I also offer youtube membership and patron from £2 a month if your wanting to speak to me more privately
Yep agreed, thats mental. Software locks are a terrible idea thin end of the you dont own the car idea being push onto the consumers by the oems, wedge. Also you are carrying extra weight for no benefit. Zoes are wonderful for their 22kw chargers my ideal would be a 43kw with added ccs and chademo and an onboard 3.6kw charger as the 22kw/43kw chargers are notably lossy in efficiency at trickle charge i.e. over night.
Smart includes 22KW charging
At this time tescos 2 miles from me have two free 22kw charges 9 payid ones near too
So the 1hr im there it put in aprox 90 miles range for free
Put i still want ccs for longer trips
Only thinking this be my next car as off this
I've just sold my ZE40 and bought a ZE50 with CCS purely for the CCS. The range was fine. Though the livelier motor is nice in the ZE50, even in ECO. Didn't the ZE40 have the same battery as the ZE50 but just have the top and bottom capacity blocked? This was because most were battery leased and therefore Renault wanted to extend the life (didn't want to pay for replacing it). Offering a full battery of only 40KwH (less modules) but with CCS would be a cheaper option.
the 22kwh 41kwh and 52kwh battery are all the same physical size but different amount of cells and chemistry meaning the total capacity on every battery is very different... think of it this way as tech improves we can fit more in the same space
We have been mulling over a used EV and the Zoe is an option. However, 40kWh without CCS is utterly bonkers. I'd much rather buy a 38kWh Iconic, eh I mean Hyundai Ioniq 😉 for those occasional longer journeys.
Hi Michael I agree I do however sell the 40kwh zoe like hot cakes I just brought 3 in for sale at work and for some people the charging speed isn't an issue but I still feel it should of been on the car!
Ccs easy to find, just open the charge port
Tel me how to because it is impossible to open it
I have the old 2014 Zoe version with the 43kW AC option. Don't need CCS here xD.
Your be lucky finding a 43kw AC charger these days most been ripped out and the ones that haven't won't be replaced with 43kw just plain old 22kw
Maybe just call it the ‘Ironic’ trim…
Ccs on 40 kWh battery may not be possible
22 kwh A/C rocks here in France.
and the UK
My new zoé 2022kw is top
Mini Cooper=YES, Kia Soul=YES , BMW I3=YES, VW ID3=YES , Zoe=NO!! ==> 0 point in CRASH-TEST Euro NCAP!! And boring design!
CCS on
The zoe needs to be cheaper than the Corsa-e/e-208. They can charge at 100kw!!
Zoe has other benefits over corsa e and e 208.... firstly BOOT its much much bigger, rear access the zoe is easy to get in and out of the back the other 2 are not. The zoe is also more efficient giving you more range for same size battery, plus 22kw ac as standard
@@NicolasRaimo The zoe does go farther, but the corsa and 208 look much more modern, the seats go up and down and the difference in charging speed on a road trip is pretty big. Plus, Im pretty sure that they wont stop charging if you press the power button. (why renault?)
That's not to say that i dont like the zoe. It drives really nice and the screen is in the perfect place for android auto.
@@b127_1 the zoe 100% goes further than Corsa E it’s more efficient I have owned both
Renault Alpi,e 5 with 130 Kw CCS will replace the Zoe :)
Zoe dry batteries cant accept above 50KW charge :)
There c rate can
The Kia e-Niro 4+ has 22kWh charging capability of AC (as well as 77kWh charging on DC).
The e Niro 4+ has only got 11KW AC charging.
Hi Carol its a max charge rate of 11kw on Hyundai and Kia models
@@NicolasRaimo oops my mistake as you need to use a 22kW charger to get the 11kWh rate.
On there web site saids 11kw ac charging on the 4
My e nero 64 kw 3 is up for renewel in 12 months
Its only 7kw ac
If new one is 22kw i stick with kia been happy with it
chargig speed is it only down side
If not i go for the magain E faster raid and 22kw ac
Ionic like the Hyundai ionic and the older Hyundai ionic, ionic confusion
So much that I confused it 😂
You're dead right. What is the brain dead thinking behind not including CCS charging? Renault as you say seem to have dropped the ball on this one.
Very interesting and informative video. But, please sit on your hands, very distracting!….
am Italian we talk with our hands