@@DRKL it's Frieren's answer to Serie. References how Marika planted a gold tree in her former village to remember / pay respect to the dead she cared about. For Frieren it's something similar since without that spell, she wouldn't have met her hero companions and it also helps her remember her former master. Very bittersweet type of thing. "sad it's over but glad it happened". Not really the vibe of Elden Ring but same "bittersweetness"
It was pretty crazy, beating Metyr, reading all the descriptions and realizing that Marika was probably lied to her whole life, especially while she was vulnerable due to the trauma inflicted by the Hornsent. Goes to show what an important theme cycles of violence and abuse are in Elden Ring.
It all begins with Metyr being abandoned by a cold, uncaring, incredibly distant cosmic parent who takes actual millennia to respond to its children. The first "imperfect" child of an embodiment of order. The ultimate expression of parental neglect. This pattern then repeats over and over through those guided by disillusioned Metyr. Meanwhile, her counterpart, the Elden Beast is the "perfect" child, obedient to the point of becoming an object, a tool for its parent to influence the world below, same as Radagon.
It's depressingly hilarious that the Greater Will is likely so distant and uncaring that it doesn't even realise how bad things are in the Lands Between, because it has so many other 'fiefdoms' to manage and influence. Hence why Metyr is frantically working off of the last thing she was told before the connection was severed. So many have been working off of out of date information.
I love the Finger revelations in the DLC. Adds a whole new depth to Marika’s character that hadn’t been considered by the community prior to the DLCs release. And yet… it still perfectly fits with how the Two Fingers are treated in the basegame. It’s been in front of our faces this WHOLE time lol. It also perfectly fits with George Martins reuse of characters that are of high political experience who misshape and mislead their Lord/Queen into their secret agendas. Take Otto Hightower, Tywin Lannister, or even Lord Varys sometimes
Well yes & no. The elden beast acting as agent of the Greater Will stole all the golden sap from the erdtree so it’s not like she wasn’t still being guided by the Greater Will. She wasn’t directly in contact with it like she thought but she was still being controlled by those doing its bidding so she was working for it. All those powers of Metyr & Elden Beast still originate from the Greater Will.
They weren't in contact, but they didn't make it up. The two fingers were working on the greater will's guidance. It just turns out that guidance is more of like a voice mail with poor signal rather than a direct line. It's not unlike actual religion. Religious zelets interpret the word of god and attempt to record and spread it. Any inconsistencies or sins of that religion in the past are a misinterpretation of God's will.
It's crazy how many people overlook that Marika's shattering of the Elden Ring was essentially a suicide attempt. I believe this is what returned Grace to the Tarnished as well, hoping for them to bring an answer to her sorrow.
That’s how I’ve always interpreted the Tarnished - a last ditch contingency plan to enable SOMEONE to kill her in the event she’s trapped by immortality
Except it's not at all hard to understand why many people, including myself, see her actions as wanting to harm RADAGON and the Greater Will, not herself. A prisoner doesn’t want someone to come and kill them, they want someone to come and destroy the prison and kill the Warden.
My personal interpretation of the night of the black knives went down something along these lines. Ranni's two fingers begin exerting control over her and tries to force her to become a god under their control. Ranni tries to rebel by stealing the rune of death and committing the night of the black knives. Without Marika's knowledge of the matter. Marika seeing her children killed at the hands of the numen her own people. Especially Godwyn was the straw that broke the camel's back. Marika imprisons Hewg in the round table as an insurance policy right before the shattering. Then proceeds to start the shattering in a suicide attempt. Only for Radagon and the elden beast to intervene and ultimately end in a stalemate where Marika is imprisoned. Leading to the events of the shattering and the subsequent world state we find the game in.
What if Radagon was truly in love with Renala. It caused him pain when Marika forced him to abandon his beloved family, but being her other half, didn't have a choice. Seeing how it tore her family apart grew Rannis resentment of the golden order and anything tied to it. Once Marika decided to destroy her order, Radagon was pissed, because he probably felt betrayed. He had abandoned everything for absolutely nothing, and in revenge, decided to force Marika to maintain the status quo, so as for his personal sacrifices not to be in vain.
That’s a pretty good interpretation actually. Makes a ton of sense as to why Radagon would be so pissed at Marika and try to fix the Elden Ring, cuz it’s all he had left at that point.
Okay, but when we enter the boss fight, Marika is strapped to the Elden ring. Radagon only changes from that form when we approach, then he used by Elden beast as a sword. Doesn’t make much sense to me
I think it's quite clear what Marika found when she set aside blind faith and searched the depths of the Golden Order. Ymir spells it out for us: "The conceits - the hypocrisy - of the world built upon the Erdtree. The follies of men. Their bitter suffering. Is there no hope for redemption? The answer, sadly, is clear. There never was any hope. They were each of them defective. Unhinged, from the start. Marika herself. And the fingers that guided her. And this is what troubles me. No matter our efforts, if the roots are rotten, …then we have little recourse." Marika discovers Metyr had been abandoned by the Greater Will long ago, and her Godhood and order were not in fact guided by some omnipotent higher power. This discovery causes a crisis of faith for her.
Ymir is insane and wants to replace Metyr. I wouldn’t put much stalk in what he says but he’s not all wrong. Metyr was injured by The Black Knives and so her ability to communicate with both her Children and her Father is crippled. The Greater Will has not abandoned The Land but it has abandoned the people who want to claim its favor. None are worthy because they sow only chaos. The Tarnished are the last chance because they understand the struggle against this unfair world its would-be subjects have caused. They have cause to kill the Demigods and Cause to fix this broken World. The Greater Will does not care what form Order takes as long as Order exists.
@@Broomer52It wasn't by the black knives, it was by the finger slayer blade which was most likely made from the missing nameless god of the age of dragons. Its creation and use is most likely the sin that caused the Nox to be banished underground.
The way I prefer to read Marika is as a deeply tragic villain, who fell into being an abominable tyrant due to the trauma she underwent in her past. Her initial actions were born of vengeance to lash out at the ones who victimized her and her people, and then at the ones she saw as cursing the family she managed to scrape together in the wake of it all. From there, she tried and failed to create what she considered a better world, due to how her trauma shaped her perceptions and reactions to those like the Omen and the Misbegotten. Finally, at the very end, with no idea how to change it, how to fix it, how to put the pieces back together… she sought to end it all, just to escape the pain - and we all know how that ended.
Then Radagon sealing away the Erdtree prolonged the suffering. Should Morgott were to enter the Erdtree, he would be the next ruler of the golden order and with his new strength can shorten the wars.
I think Marika's comment about wallowing at the fringes is directed at Miquella. The Haligtree is literally at the fringes. And his ambitions are of a fundamentally powerless upstart. He took advantage of the existing family feud to further his ambitions and charmed powerful people to balance his powerlessness. I think she saw how her Order was flawed and abusable and decided to destroy it. And she saw that Miquella was terrifying.
Interesting! I always thought it was directed toward Godfrey leading up to his banishment/stripping of Grace, and found the vid’s interpretation convincing, but the idea that it is Miquella could have huge implications. Miquella was Radagon’s favorite imo, whereas Godwyn was clearly Marika’s, so it would seem the that the Night of Black Knives was intended less as simple revenge and more as a means to disrupt the chain of succession…
She could be disgusted of the though, that hornsent will gain loving and compassionate god after what they have done to her folk. Imagine the horror and riot
I think the "powerless upstart" line can be interpreted in three ways. - As the video states, a manifestation of Marika becoming an authoritarian. - As an ironic echo of both her past and future, of which Marika was aware. She was once a powerless upstart herself, and may have sensed that for the Golden Order to change, another powerless upstart may be needed (the Tarnished). - She was also aware that within the Golden Order, any powerless upstart would be destroyed, so one was needed to come from the outside. The Tarnished count as such, since she banished them from the Golden Order. As you say, Miquella may be another. However, it should be noted that how, exactly, the Golden Order is to be changed is a matter left to each "upstart". We do not know what Godfrey intended. Miquella, ironically, decided to apparently take the same path Marika did, except instead of following the Jar Ritual that it is speculated gave birth to her divine persona, it seems he chooses to divest himself of everything he was before heading to the Divine Gate (to create a more perfect Age of Compassion by avoiding his curse, metaphorically and literally). Finally, there is us, who have different options, one of them including joining forces with Ranni to bring about an age of, ironically enough, no Order at all. We will go to the Stars with Ranni, leaving the Lands Between to flourish as they will without the influence of any gods (and perhaps the point of Ranni and us going to the Stars is to protect the Lands Between from any Outer Gods that may come, and possibly against a second attempt by the Greater Will to influence the world).
Ye, but isn't she just referring to the fact that you lose the grace of gold you become an outcast and lose the power that the blessing of the erdtree provides? Miquella is kind of an example of that but it's a bit much to say that she is referring to him.
St. Trina reminds me of how in dreams, in real life, you can't yell, say anything or make sounds. She tries to enunciate every part of her words and she'll never be any stronger or awake...
I think her dialogue to her children was a prophecy, a warning to them that they were cursed (just like her) and if they didn't fight their way out of it they would fall to ruin (just like her). Becoming a lord or god is not the final step in avoiding Marika's fate but so long as people would seek divine power her children would be targets unless they had the strength of a god. Whether its the golden order, the hornsent or whomever came before the people were always seeking divine power and sacrificing others to get to that power.
Yeah, it was definitely one kind of Hail Mary one way or another. I interpret this as her either being kind enough to warn her children of the coming shitstorm or guiding them to a self- fulfilling prophecy of death.
Brett, there is a channel called TheCenteredTarnished. He breaks down the story of Elden Ring in terms of trauma and psychology, with the demigods being psychological aspects. I think you’d find it fascinating
Also, one more thing, Miquella's curse is that of nascence, not necessarily youth. He's cursed that all of his ambitions never reach their full potential: unalloyed gold, the haligtree, even his own epoch.
I like to think, after the DLC shows us everything Miquella had to go through in order to follow in her footsteps and replicate her ascension we get a glimpse of what ascending actually means. The process involved shedding just about everything that makes you who you are and what comes out on the other side of the Gate of Divinity is only an echo of who you used to be and entirely up to chance if that echo is strong enough to actually do what you intended. We see Miquella shed all of his body and soul but the loss of Saint Trina was the turning point where what was left to ascend would fundamentally betray his original intent, as a god without compassion is incapable of delivering the gentler world he envisioned. With Marika I feel like, guided as she was by the Greater Will, it led her to ascension knowing and intending to use Radagon and she was just the vessel it needed to get the champion it needed to seize control of the Lands Between. It was too late for her to question the Greater Will by the time things started going wrong, and the fact that she removed the rune of Death from the Elden Ring did indeed trap her as Saint Trina suggests will happen to Miquella.. She was outplayed by the outer god and in her other half she was going to be usurped leaving her one desperate way out; shatter the ring.
@@yukiotacon2846 My reading of that was Miquella trying to prevent another Radagon issue arising within his new world. Miquella didn't want to have to fight against his other self in the future, as the competing personas of their leader led directly to the Golden Order fracturing.
Actually the FLC heavily impiles the Greater Will had nothing to do withs whats going on in the lands between and is probably unaware of what's actually happening
@@yukiotacon2846 when he says "I abandon here my love." He isn't talking about his capacity for love, he's calling Trina his "love." The Japanese translates more accurately to "my beloved."
I find it so interesting how two Empyreans, Miquella and Marika, both have two souls in one body that can transform or split at will or by force, yet D has two bodies for his one soul.
By the way there's a VERY subtle transition at the very end of the announcement trailer. As Marika is falling against the anvil, head bowed, you can see her shoulder very subtly bulking up, becoming masculine. And if I'm not crazy, it's difficult to see but her hair is beginning to very slightly shift to red. The act is done and Radagon is in the process of taking over.
Youre literally seeing things. Throughout the trailer they are switching back and forth like the game tells us. We start out seeing Radagon hammering to fix it. We never actually see Marika breaking it, only Radagon trying to fix it. We only see Marika standing/falling in front of the light or holding the hammer in front of herself with two hands. The last scene transitions from Marika looking up at the shattered ring and then it switches to Radagon slumped over the anvil in defeat after realizing he can't fix it. The "bulking up" youre seeing in the last scene is Radagon's shoulders cracking apart more. We never actually see the transformation take place. Its always done with cuts in the announcement trailer.
@@ATC43 It's obviously Marika slumping over the anvil. I was willing to entertain you until you said it was Radagon. Further, two points: 1) We DO see the transition, right before the boss fight. We don't see the shapechange, but we get to see the complete shift in hair color from Marika's to Radagon's. 2) Discreetly slipping 2 seconds of transformation in at the very end of the announcement trailer years before the game comes out is a VERY From thing to do.
@nERVEcenter117 I meant in the trailer we never see the switch. In the base game, yes. But no, the slumped figure is not Marika..look at the cracks on the back they are in the same spots as Radagon when he's hammering and the torso is clearly male, ie no boobs in the last slumped scene. Plus the hair is distinctly Red unlike the scene just before it showing Marika. At the end of the trailer they show Marika looking up at her accomplished goal of shattering the ring before falling, after which she switches to Radagon who is in despair at the Ring being broken. It's literally there to see if you watch the trailer.
It's Radagon slumped over not Marika, we see her fall, you can see her smirk a little before she collapses. The way the hair is styled gives it away too, Radagon's hair is a tightly bound braid likely a nod to his strive for order and formality, while Marika's is like a loose French braid as she yearns for freedom.
Shadowbound beast like Maliketh are tailored by the Two Fingers for their Empyrean. However, their loyalty to that Empyrean can be compromised, and their will can be overwritten by that of the Two Fingers at any moment. We see this with Blaidd, who was the most loyal to Ranni, desperately trying to fight off the control they had over him. It’s likely this was the case with Maliketh. Whom was directed to guard Death because the Two Fingers wanted to eliminate the possibility of her dying. So even if he wanted to, Maliketh would not be able to just hand over Death to Marika. Simply because it would go against his programming.
The two fingers don't seem to care who the god is and what form their order takes, as long as it's an order predicated on the elden ring. If marika was their one and only chosen god, they wouldn't be choosing empyreans to replace her.
@@playmsbk as someone else stated, the reason why they seek a replacement is because they sense disorder amongst their order. Basegame Melina dialogue suggests Marika harboured doubts long before Godwyn even died. The Fingers’ “backup plan” to replace Marika was a result of how recklessly they manipulated Marika in the ShadowLands. They lied to her, telling her what she wanted to hear, that her ambitions and goals will be fulfilled so as long as she fears the “Greater Will.” Of course, now we know that the fingers are lying, they probably manipulated Marika in her beginnings. This was ALWAYS likely going to backfire on them, as is the case with the act of ‘dishonesty’ in most Martin and Miyazaki stories. Marika, being the central character of the story, was always going to get what she wanted by the end of the story to some extent, whether she dies or lives. By the end, she simply wanted to destroy that which plunged her life into hell, the Elden Ring and the Fingers. That’s why the Elden Ring was shattered. She shattered the very thing that ruined her life. In this act, knowing she would physically become destroyed, she shattered the Ring all the same. Her life didn’t matter to her. But just like how she purged the Hornsent for destroying her people, she did the same to the Elden Ring. It’s a full circle story that ends in Marika disregarding her own life for the sake of her people. The terrible cycle of violence and vengeance
@@HeevaEgo I have a few problems with this. Firstly, the fingers seem perfectly content and able to imprison Marika inside the erdtree and let her be a husk simply containing the elden ring, that is the whole point of the roundtable hold and the basic ending of the game. If order can function in this way, why go to the trouble of finding empyreans. Secondly, the godskin apostasy was the event that lead to the formation of the golden order, as per the finger reader crones words the golden order was founded by the removal of destined death, and the godskins were lead by an empyrean. That could mean that the golden order was founded at a much later date or that the fingers wanted to remove Marika from the start. And finally, maliketh sealed destined death per the orders of Marika and seems perfectly loyal to Marika to the end. If the fingers really wanted to replace Marika, why allow this and why not use maliketh to kill her, since he is literally the only being that could kill Marika.
Godhood being a prison is one of my favorite tropes in media. No matter how powerful a human character may become (they may even become powerful enough to be considered a god) their human flaws and temperaments always end up being their downfall. Marika went from being a powerless and abused shaman girl to being the uncontested ruler of the entire land, she started an entire new order, literally rewrote the laws of reality to her will, and she wiped out anyone who could’ve posed a threat to her (even one of her own children if we assume that Melina is the gloam eyed queen). However despite all of this, she was still unable to escape the plights of her past life. In a cruel yet fitting sense of irony, 2 of her children were born with the exact same features of the people who see despised, and despite literally removing the concept of death in order to prevent anyone close to her dying ever again, her one perfect golden son was brutally murdered. The order she created was rife with suffering, death, and discrimination. Pretty much all of her children were born afflicted, and overall being a god seemed pretty damn miserable, which is why In the end she decided to literally shatter it. It reminds me of Eren and Ymir from Attack on Titan. Ymir was also an abused and powerless slave girl who stumbled across godly power. Her misuse of this power resulted in thousands of years of suffering and tyranny, and in the end not even “death” could free her from the hell of her own creation. That is until Eren comes along and he essentially takes the burden away from her onto himself. Eren essentially becoming a god allows him to achieve his goals but it also forces him to confront the worst aspects of his nature before he does it. He is torn apart by the fact that he will inflict the same awful trauma that he faced on the entire world (even people who had nothing to do with his conflict) only on a much larger scale, he also must confront the fact that despite living his entire life in the pursuit of freedom, he couldn’t have been further from free in the end. Because he sees through time and realizes that everything was always going to happen a certain way and he had no choice but to essentially follow a script. Moral of the story, don’t play god folks.
To be honest tho it’s a stupid trope, why? Because it always centers that there are consequences and that they do not have unlimited power. If you were an all powerful god and you always got what you wanted, in reality life would be great for you. You wouldn’t suffer in the slightest.
Marika is cursed by the hornsent to have hornsent children and the Hornsent have the gall to think they did nothing wrong and didnt think about why this is happening to them. Thats why Marika hates them so much even to this day.
@@edwinbasa2804 I understand why she did what she did but still, I can’t bring myself behind most, if not all, her actions. It is all one awful cycle of misery and hate, of victims making more victims. I guarantee you that the Hornsent civilization is not a monolith and had many who were unaware or did not approve of some of their more grotesque practices such as a Greater Potentate from Bonny Village who was disgusted by the jarring practices that he made cookbooks for jarring items that specifically excluded using living beings from the process and who were also subject to their own brethren’s brand of cruelty if found guilty such as the Hornsent spirits in Midra's manse who begged their fellow Hornsent Inquisitors to spare them and ask what their master Midra was guilty of.
@@VictorIV0310 This is why I don’t get why so many people say the hornsent deserved it. Like do I feel bad for them? Not really because the things they did to the shaman (and probably other groups considering the size of their kingdom) was atrocious. But that doesn’t mean they deserved to have their entire people and culture wiped off the map. Not to mention the endless amount of fucked up shit Marika did or oversaw while she ruled. Not every resident in the lands between was responsible for all the fucked up shit the golden order did, just the same way not every hornsent was responsible for what happened to Marika. Hell if we judged every civilization by such standards then pretty much every group of people on earth would deserved to get wiped out lol. I love the dlc because it truly tells an unbiased picture of how tragic and endless the cycle of violence really is. Frenzied flame ending makes more and more sense the further you progress and see how fundamentally broken the land that you are trying to rule over is.
I mean, I think we know fairly well why Marika wouldn't have been able to get the Rune of Death from Maliketh. For the same reason we had to put down Blaidd. Because empyrean shadow beasts are servants of the Two Fingers and would be forced to stop anyone plotting against them, even their masters.
@@TrueDiox But the point is: Fingers care? We see then try to control Blaidd, because Ranni's plan was kill the Fingers themself. Marika about killing herself? Why Fingers should care, they called 3 Empyreans, heirs of Marika's divinity.
@@themaniae4803 The second part answer it they need to make an example of her remember the two fingers are all about control they expect you to 100 years for them tofind a new way to open the Erd tree. When you do burn down the Erd tree they're shocked you defied them and I suspect the only reason they didn't punish you was because they couldn't.
@@mercerholt8299 Ehm, no? They are shocked that Grace, what they believed to be the Greater Will... will, has led you to the Tree but the Tree itself is closed and, confused, they go to ask for help from the GW, not understanding GW is gone by a looooong time. Also, they can punish you, literally they have Assassins exactly for hunt and kill other Tarnished, but from when we find the door locked they are in call with GW, and Enia says "Ah, you want to burn the Erdtree? Ok." Sure, they probably don't want to burn it, but literally the situation from that point is "Boss is not here, let's do whatever we want."
A way I’ve been thinking about it is that Merika is someone who was tragically never able to overcome her own trauma. She witnessed great atrocities from a presumably young age with the genocide of her people by the hornsent. This trauma led her to genocide the hornsent in return, as well as any omens born in her own order, as likely the mere thought of horned people brought back her repressed memories. The same can be said of the land of Shadow, and even Messmer. She tasked him with cleansing the LoS of the hornsent, but he was so attached to that purpose that he would come to remind her of her past. Maybe this is part of the reason she abandoned him in the LoS and never returned to her home. Her Trauma likely manifested as a split personality which allowed her to cope with it, wich resulted in Radagan. Radagan is Merika in the sense that Merika is the dominant but deeply disturbed personality, and Radagan is the more emotionally sound personality that takes over to ease Marina’s stress. Eventually the two personalities would come to disagreements in how they perceive their order, and the greater will would favor the one that wanted to preserve it.
Glad you talked about Radagon in this way. It's really interesting to hear a perspective like this because of how much the fandom tends to meatride Radagon, Radahn, and Godfrey.
@@callumreilly9107 Tecnically all demigods and main bosses (except Rennala and Last Giant) are bad because they serve or were ruined by a corrupted Order. Radanh and Godfrey were warriors and generals of armies, surely innocents are died because of them, as Radagon in the end try to not succumb to us, even if this means status quo, but there is a different between a Radanh and a Rykard. Like Dark Souls, Gwyndolin is not innocent, but Aldritch is damn worst.
Radahn and Godfrey are one thing, but genuinely, I'm curious who you see out there who gives Radagon a ton of props. From what I can tell most people treat him with the same energy as Marika, except worse because he's still fully committed to keeping up the Golden Order. I know I don't like him because without his cockblocking Morgott probably wouldn't have come to the final conclusion he came to, and maybe could've become Elden Lord
@@aydenbonnet9630 A lot of them see him as a fanatic, power-hungry, heart-breaker asshole, when multiple times he showed as a open-mind, good dad and husband an yeah, loyal, but not fanatic. (Even because, you know, crush the Elden Ring means possibly destroy all life so... i can understand why he tried to protect it.)
I do think, she was the one success of the Hornsent’s melding-ritual. She first became their Saint. The one they were trying so desperatelly to create. Marika proceeded to be that Saint and made the Hornsent to show her the way to become a god. The moment she stood before the Gate of Divinity, she revealed her rage and killed the Hornsent as brutally as she could to avenge her people. “The Seduction and the Betrayal.”
After this video Maliketh last words hurts even more. “Witless tarnished. Why covet Destined Death? To kill what?” He died because she changed her mind 😭
Jar Saint is a mistranslation. Saint, using Kanji, is used to talk about a Good Person, not a Holy or Ascended one. In the end what Hornsents did was "Go inside the Jar and you'll free from your sins, suffering a terrible eternal torment."
I agree with this notion. What the hornsent did was an act of genocide, and one key part of that is rationalisation. Prejudice is what keeps the gears of genocide turning and make it be seen through to the end, any other stated reason is a lie to others and themselves to stave off guilt. That's what the whole "jar saint" thing is: just a flimsy excuse, and as someone who's part of a minority group that has to deal with quite a lot of prejudice myself I find it quite obvious
@@zeppie_ Not only genocide. Shamans were just the special ingredient, not the main target. Prisoners were the real target, and in a society ruled by Inquisition it's probably a lot of those prisoners were just not-enough-devoted people and, probably, a lot of people not-hornsents. The clan of Bloodfiends were slaves before Messmer and the Mother after all.
@@themaniae4803 Well, the Bloodfiend clan may have been slaves; it is not set in stone, as the description could very well be referring to Messmer's subjugation of the tribe, and I think that is more likely.
The cycle of violence and trauma isn't just a common literary trope, but it is real in this world too. Marika is tragic as she is guilty. Both a hero who tried her very best to make the world a better place, and a villain who - knowingly at least on some level - created unforgiveable suffering for her children and whole civilisations.
This is why Ranni’s ending is my favorite. We as the player surrender the power we have to Ranni who then takes that power away from the Lands Between. This essentially frees everyone from the toxic power struggle that has destroyed the realm.
Except those who live in death are running around and the issue is still present. They have no soul. They are just bodies shambling around. And Godwyn has become monsterous. I can’t forgive ranni for that.
@@Parhelion2 Those who live in Death very much come from the Elden Ring going boom and the Rune of Death being absent. No Elden Ring nothing to keep Those Who Live in Death, well, undead.
@@arthurrebello919 why tho? Those Who Live in Death are brought to life because of Godwyn, and there is no indication that because Elden Ring would be outside of the Lads Between, he would die.
That ignores that Ranni and her plans were a MAJOR factor in everything going to hell. She did remove the toxic power struggle but only after kickstarting the apocalyptic war that left literally everyone except her in a worse position.
you know the game and the characters are GOATED when after 2 years people are still interpreting what they think and how they perceive the story. Great Video!🔥
On the origins of Marika; Those who come from abused house holds usually end up becoming abusers themselves, this explains her psychology and motivations
I'd adjust that as someone with plenty of horrific experiences with *some*, not usually. It's a bit of a bad thing to generalize in such a way, as it draws attitudes, stigma, and suspicions onto survivors of abuse. There is by no shortage of chain breakers or those working through their problems, finding constructive ways to heal and to use that experience as a positive force to impact the world. Choosing what to do with the hurt is always an option. There is no doom or destiny placed, no taint or curse, as the chains can be chosen to be shattered. The cycle will not go on. Which is the choice of many. It's just chain breakers get no gratitude or appreciation for the choice that takes immense bravery to choose, and can even face ostracization or suspicion from others for the fact they broke the cycle.
You got that reversed actually. Most people who are abusers themselves have been abused, but most people who *are* abused do not go on to then abuse others. So the pattern is, if you see someone getting abused, they most likely will go on to NOT visit their pain on other people. However, if you DO see someone doing just that, there is a VERY high likelihood it is because they themselves were abused in the past.
I'd like to propose the theory that Radagon is actually a completely separate entity that was fused with Marika in a jar. Both maintained their consciousness, Marika being the Shaman but Radagon being a criminal or outcast. Why they began to fight is because Marika became a God to make a better world, which she failed miserably to do. While Radagon went along with it because it was his second chance at life. When Marika wanted to die and be done, Radagon fought because he liked his new life and position as a "benevolent" God. Maybe it's not just the flesh that gets fused, but consciousness and spirit. But in Marika's case, her and Radagon maintained their independence.
40:09 I think that the reason why Marika successfully became a Living Saint is because she was put in the jar in a way that fulfilled certain alchemical requirements that the Hornsent were unaware of. In terms of the alchemy of Elden Ring you need a "White Queen" and a "Red King" in order to create a divine being. Marika was the White Queen and she was forced into a jar with a Red King: Radagon. Fusing the two of them together created a new being of massive power and the rest is history. Read up on the alchemical theory of Elden Ring if you don't know what I'm talking about.
@@filipporapetti9354 That is a very cool idea. I do think that Marika became a god by sacrificing the Hornsent. I think that Miquella tried to sacrifice parts of himself instead, so that he didn't have to kill anyone. I think that Melina tried to do the same thing and that's why she doesn't have a body.
The story of elden ring sucks and 60% of it is conjecture with allegories that only vaguely align with the plot. Dark souls 1 is and will always be fromsoftware’s best narrative. Simple concise, and best of all the visual art, music, and writing all align with the plot in beautifully cohesive package. No need for knowledge of alchemy, psychology, ancient religions and geography to only vaguely piece together a story either.
All the jars used Red and White Mushrooms. The big difference I guess, is the quality. The Numen are from across the sea - ie white flesh / salt. Radagon is descendent from Fire Giants - ie red flesh / sulfur (or was it phosphor?). Now the question is just how does that relate to tree fertiliser and using corpses as mortar. What was the actual goal of the building the tower?
I have a theory concerning the timeline of the fingers and the Elden Beast. I think Metyr arrived long, LONG before the Elden Beast, and that the Elden Beast in fact arrived to CONFIRM Marika's rise to power. Metyr's lore states that she doesn't like to bow. This implies that the Elden Beast and its infusion with Marika as the Elden Ring was a rejection of Metyr's stewardship. Maybe the hornsent, the jars, and the Crucible were NOT what the Greater Will had in mind in "ordering" the Lands Between after many eons of Metyr's stewardship. Only the true God creates demigods and saints. So the Greater Will sends one last message: "You're being replaced. Obey the new order." This could have been long, long before Marika, in fact. Metyr could've been in the dark from time immemorial by the time Marika arrives. The Erdtree is the manifestation of the new Golden Order. Metyr seethes and malds so much that Marika veils Miyr away with all the other hornsent lands and finger ruins. Maybe the Two Fingers left over in the Lands Between are simply vassals of Marika willing to obey her in the absence of Metyr. This would explain why they guide the Tarnished; they are obeying Marika. This has vast implications for Marika's rebellion against the Beast and the Greater Will: Ultimately, Marika's declaration that a Tarnished should become Elden Lord didn't match with the Erdtree/Elden Beast sealing off the tree, so the Two Fingers locked up in their confusion. She didn't give them the full picture. They thought Marika and the Beast had a purpose behind the Shattering, and were not let in on the scheme. Because duh, Marika rebelled against the Beast and the Ring, so she was imprisoned. The heads of the Golden Order were fighting each other and the Fingers had no way to process it. The biggest flaw in my theory, though, is who and what are the Two Fingers communicating through? Are they truly making things up independently, or trying to contact Metyr to receive HER made-up wisdom? Hard to tell. Also I can't really explain why the Fingers knew Marika was imprisoned after shattering the Ring and thought this was perfectly okay. Hmm maybe this theory sucks.
Nah I think this theory is really good. The only thing that I think differently about is the greater will. I don’t think it’s sentient. I think the greater will is just a representation of the endless black abyss of space, and when aliens and meteors and other shit started crashing down from it people thought that it was sending them messages, and the aliens like the fingers and shit just rolled with it to exert power over the tiny little humanoids.
Another issue is Gideon the all knowing learning from Marika that we are not meant to succeed. The tarnished are meant to struggle for eternity. None of us are meant to be Elden lord.
The elden ring existed before marika since you can see a primal elden ring in farum azula, meaning the elden beast was sent by the greater will to moniter the current order, whether that is marika's order, or prior like placidusax
That was a very well made video about Marika but the cherry on top was the "to be continued" at the end with Radagons boss theme playing in the outro xD
Not only does it make little sense, if she were really in league with Ranni, the bigger issue would become Ranni herself - Marika has no need for her in the plot, and to include her just makes everything harder and less certain. Marika may have some motivation in killing Godwyn, sure. Unlikely, but sure. She has no need for Ranni to destroy her body as part of that. Ranni’s simultaneous suicide was to shatter a great rune, but Marika can do that at will.
Marika's whole problem with the Golden Order was that it was based on the two fingers, who were essentially lying the whole time that they were in communication with the Greater Will. She didn't discover this until it was too late. Looking at Ranni's plan, the entire thing centers around severing her connection with the two fingers, then killing Marika and becoming the new God. Both of these things would align with Marika's goals of destroying the golden order built on the lies of the two fingers and killing herself.
@themightymcb7310 but it doesn't make sense that'd she'd kill her son to do it considering her motivation of removing the rune of death was to protect the people she loved. Sure, she hates the finger, but that isn't sufficient motivation for murdering her own kid.
I believe Marika became disillusioned with the Golden Order once she saw how all of her children, save for Godwyn turned out. All cursed. All reminders of her past and her misdeeds. And what really has to sting? All of Radagon's children were perfectly fine, other than having the "cursed" fiery red hair of the giants. Hell, everyone just about agreed that Radahn was the Chaddest Chad that ever Chadded besides Godwyn. Seeing this had to have caused Marika to want to rather die than give birth to more cursed children that would be oppressed and hated by a hypocritical Order she helped create.(Also Godwyn could have also been born a mutant fish man as we never see his lower half fully outside of his corpse, leading me to believe ALL of the kids that popped out of Marika were cursed.)
I wonder if Marika helped Ranni because she thought they were conspiring to kill HER. But Ranni had her own plans. Without another option left, she was forced to shatter the ER directly, and summon back the Tarnished.
I'm of the same mind here. Ranni has beef with Marika if only because Marika is the reason why Rennala became a ruined broken woman. So for her to seek vengeance on her makes sense. Marika just didn't expect Ranni to target her son.
I love your interpretation. You get the story far better than anybody else I've seen. Besides the point that this can drive the character motivation for Marika to help out Ranni with her plan. I don't know how anyone else could have robbed Maliketh without dying first, and that make sense why Maliketh said what he said in his dialogue. Only Marika could have pulled out something like that. Perhaps she disguised as the cold witch to help Ranni, so not even Ranni thought she was dealing with Marika the whole time, and make sense with Radagon being married with Rennala at that moment in time. Also Marika was the only person old enough to have seen that period.
I believe Radagon was also scheming against Marika. The dialogue at the temple with the Radagon statue proves this as a possibility. Marika knew so she came up with an elaborate scheme to kill Radagon by breaking the ring and using the tarnished as the ones to do the god killing. She gave Radagon and his future godhood a big middle finger. Trina loved Miquella, Marika hated Radagon for his red hair and other unknown reasons.
So melinas sealed eye and her connection to destined death is even more poetic when born as marikas daughter, as she is sent to guide the tarnished on a path of destined death.
to sum up, Marika was a wounded traumatized woman who was given incredibly power and a chance at revenge under the promise of creating something better so neither she, nor anyone she loved, would never be hurt ever again. Along the way she succumbed more and more to her pain and anger to the point the very family she wanted to protect became tools. And in the end she realised it was all lies, and she had become the same tyrant that one oppressed her people for nothing
fuckin fantastic video. quickly becomin one of if not my favorite lore person on youtube. love how marika, her story and her wishes/desires were contextualized. haven’t heard very many others explain it the way it was done here.
Realizing now that for a "God" Marika actually doesn't have that much power. It feels like a true god wouldn't have to wage war at all, it would just be immediate victory where she would solo the entire verse without any resistance. I understand there are other gods at play but it's interesting how she doesn't ever confront their equivalents of herself (leader of fire giants, for example). She sends her armies to do it for her. And how are the Carian's who aren't even gods competing with her in any way shape or form? She's really not very impressive for a god to be honest.
i think the word "God" in terms of what it means for marika has a lot to do with how the runes of the elden ring dictate reality. while not omnipotent, she is the vessel of the power behind all of the forces of nature in the lands between aka removing death and routing all life that she deems worthy through the erdtree. It also allows her to share somewhat superhuman powers with her followers as a reward for their deeds. Her existence essentially dictates the laws of the universe
@@curtisfarley6558She is definitely the spirit/manifestation of the golden erdtree we see in game. The original erdtree bark is visible when we enter and kill radagon. It's mainly a metaphor for the soul but she was also a shaman and we were her statue literally in a tree in the shaman village in the DLC as if thats the last stage of a spirit transfer. Don't know the timeline on that one though as the erdtree has been burned a couple of times for how a monster she was I guess
@@curtisfarley6558 the game/her story can be interpreted in so many way that's the magic of Miyazaki. For example I also like the idea of her literally being a jar ,in the end from her jar torture by the hornsent, her shaman soul fused with other people, one of them was radagon, snakes, hornsent, all sorts of innocents or criminals, animals, etc and in the end we see that in some of her children(omen twins, etc) but also she's is sensitive too cursed, she being a shaman and all , and manifested in other children (mesmer, Melina, miquela etc)
I think there is one big misinterpreration of meytr that I see in the comments. Meytr was abandoned by the greater will. But that does not mean it abandoned the lands betweena and marika. Infact the elden beast is the greaterwills avatar and as such would mean that Marikas godhood made the greater will play favorites and divert all communications from meytr and her fingers to marika and the fingers that associate with her. It would explain as to why the finger ans the two finger in roundtable hold actually give sound advice on what to do.
I think the sacrifices line is more about how she lived and survived she's stating it's a truth of the world that if you don't make something of yourself the world will make something out of you.
I started playing Elden Ring recently, in large part because of your video essays, and I find all the lore to be incredibly fascinating! I’ve been looking forward to this video essay for a long while, and it just so happens today’s my birthday, so you just made my day with this upload! Thank you Fat Brett!
I’ve been waiting!!! I’ve loved these videos ever since the RE4 deconstructions of villainy. There’s so much depth and work put into them Edit: Since next video is about Radagon, I still subscribe to the crack pot theory that is the Fire Giant’s curse on Marika, hence why he has red hair that he despises. So the Fire Giant was cursed to guard the forge by Marika for eternity but Marika was cursed to be shattered
god the story and lore of this game is so goddamn good, and you do such a good job of explaining it and using evidence to support your points and claims. You make it seem so simple, but deconstructing the emotions and motivations of a character throughout their countless years of living is remarkable and I would not have picked up on any of this. I mean, seriously, who else would notice the changes in tonality of Marika throughout her different stages of Godhood and explain it so well? This is such a good video
I dont really see Radagon as a " he was the real villain all aloooong" kinda guy, he's just the perfect golden order paragon to a fault, like Gwyn in a sense, so he had to do something when he realized Marika was setting the golden order up to burn (and the world with it). Marika is the real villain, she just happened to have a very understandable motive and very human and flawed responses to the problems she faced after she became a god. (I wont take the W of her suicide atempt involving unmaking the shitty order she built away from her tho)
I've said this a few times on your videos but I just wanted to say thanks again, you manage to put into words what I thought was going on but could never articulate to others. Great work!
I'm not sure I agree with the ending part you mention about how Marika was trying to wrest control from her problematic other half, Radagon, and that Radagon represents the worst part of herself and That Marika becomes a slave to Radagon. It kind of feels a little bit out of left field for me to surmise that from all that you said prior. But I'm interested to see what you have to say in the follow-up video. I agree with a lot of what you say in the video up to that point I would say. Also, The way these dialogues with Melina and how you present them is quite brilliant! It absolutely shows Marika's character arc very vividly. There is a definite sense of tragedy with her story, heavily exemplified by the state she is in when we finally meet her at the end of the game. She starts filled with hatred when she persecutes and destroys all who had done her wrong (the Hornsent), and achieves this through betrayal and through the guise of ushering in a new age of abundance. Then she gets more pessimistic, and perhaps gives up trying to make the world a better place, choosing authoritarianism. Perhaps then she realizes the error of her ways and plots the shattering to attempt to allow the world another chance for a new age. she realized the Elden ring and order she created were fundamentally flawed. When she finally sees all the harm she has caused with it all, she chooses to try to start something anew, something not of her choosing but of the Tarnished's choosing. It's very pointed in her dialogue from Melina about how/why she chooses to banish the Tarnished; in that she wants them to struggle and become strong. We learn in the DLC that Marika has been essentially led by the fundamentally flawed and misguided Scion of the Greater Will, Metyr. and Thus the Two fingers that guided Marika's rule for the majority of her rule over the lands between were the whole time misguided. Ymir says this very directly. And that the whole time, 'the roots (of the age of the Erdtree/Golden order) were rotten'. In this context it seems to fit quite well with Marika's tragic story; Marika was well intentioned, but misguided and ultimately very fallible as a ruler. Just like many of the mythologies that Elden Ring draws from; the gods are fundamentally imperfect and flawed beings. Ultimately she sees the false worldview that her age is based on, and chooses to end it and allow a new ruler.
@@Jdogspeps Well intentioned, but still a little asshole during that phase. Defeated the Fell God, she cursed the last giant calling him "Oh, little giant..." Like, what a ego sister.
Another parallel between Roderika and Marika's past-i could be wrong but there are some things that make me think that shaman/numen women, possibly gifted ones in particular, would be used as the "base" for the grafted jar beings in the DLC. It seems like the "brain" of it is a shaman woman with some inverse of a rune arc on their forehead. The grafted beings that Godrick makes are VERY similar to the jar abominations i concept, just without the jar. Roderika was meant to be the "head" of a chrysalid because of her spirit tuning gift, she would be like the glue to the being i think
Marika is one of those characters, who while not having a big physical presence on screen in person, still has an indelible effect upon the Lands Between and the Land of Shadow: the echoes of her words linger in the old churches, her demigod children have built their own power bases across the lands, her influence and her deeds and actions can be seen everywhere. Maybe more so in the Land of Shadow's Shaman Village: leaving behind a Minor Erdtree and her own Golden Braid - even though there was nobody left to save - was like a promise to herself she would build a better world for others. But the fact she went on to found an Order that persecuted anything remotely different from their own tenets goes to show it's all a cycle of death and violence and persecution, no matter who is in charge. It's a theme we've seen time and again in Fromsoft's back catalogue. And the whole 'Godhood is a cage' thing proves that no matter how powerful these 'Gods' were, they were ultimately just tools of another more powerful God. If Miquella had been successful in his plans, chances are the Outer Gods would have come to influence him sooner or later.
The whole Ranni thing seems so off. I thought the "close ties to Marika" line was a mistranslation, and that Godwyn's death was one of Marika's motivations for doubting the holism of her order. Most of these "Marika had a super convoluted plan" theories seem to break down at the seams, I think it's better seen as the puzzle.pieces being placed on their own, with most characters not even being aware of it, they're simply enacting their wills, and in doing so, they are unconsciously guided by the underlying forces of the universe, such as karmic Causality and Regression towards the mean
@@Lazarus_Cardinalis Yep, and let me tell you this about Godwyn's death. If Marika had wanted to kill Godwyn, or release the Rune of Death: "Maliketh, dear, come here a moment please."
I personally like the idea that Ranni conspired with the Black Knives (and whoever employed them) to kill a demigod. She does or doesn't know it's Godwyn specifically. But her thievery of one half of the rune of death is somethings she does for her own ends, and that's where everything goes off the rails. I accept that it's my own interpretation though, and I think more people would have fun with this story if they were willing to interpret some things so that it makes a more compelling story. I really like Ranni, but I don't really like the idea of her being the entire mastermind over everything in the Night of Black Knives, so she's not.
@Majoraspersona There's a pretty solid base of evidence that Ranni was just a conspirator in the plot overall. The Nox had their own agenda going into the plot, and it seems like they were not aware of Ranni's plan at the time considering her later interactions with the Black Knives, and the Nox as a whole.
@@aydenbonnet9630 Let's think back to the Plot of the Night for a moment. Kill Godwyn, the possible only children loved by Marika, prince of the Golden Order and one of the beings most loved by all. Motivations Behind this Plot. For the Assassins? Revenge and hatred for being Scion of the Eternal Cities, people who didn't appreciate Marika and Golden Order very much. For Ranni? She needed Godwyn's death to kill her own body and escape the control of her Two Fingers. Now, without Ranni the assassins would not have been able to do anything. Ranni stole the Rune, Ranni infused the Rune's power into the knives, and Ranni instructed them to kill Godwyn in that exact way. Furthermore, Rogier calls Ranni the person who Orchestrated the Night. Obviously this isn't definitive proof as NPCs aren't omniscient, but there's another point to that. What we see next is the Assassins killing Iji and attempting to attack Ranni's tower, defended by Blaidd. Now, why would the assassins who worked with Ranni try to kill her and kill her servants? Think about it. Ranni took these women, she made them kill the second most sacred being after Marika, making the entire Lands Between hate them, and Ranni then helped them? Nope, we find them hidden in catacombs and caves or in Ordina, a super hidden and forbidden place. Hunted, killed, desperate, while Ranni was all happy having done what she had to do. I can understand why they're pissed at her. Alternatively, the Nox wanted to have their Elden Lord anyway, and Ranni wanted to take the Elden Ring away, so it was also a conflict of interest.
The "Misery" chapter of the video is so damn good for one reason: it brings to attention the one part of Elden Ring that was always chalked up to "because it's a video game". Back then in the base game, anyone who was hooked by the plot at some point must have thought "why are we still blessed and guided by grace after burning the Erdtree?". And now your interpretation gives an answer! Because grace is not the Greater Will; Metyr proves that's impossible. It is not the Elden Beast; the fact we fight it proves it's impossible. True grace cannot exist because the God who bestows it left before we even pressed new game. True order never existed because order as we know it is just what various people say it is. The only versions we know of order and grace are tainted with interpretation. Radagon's fundamentalism, Goldmask's idealism, you get the gist. We now NOTHING of what the Greater Will is, only what people expect it to be. But we know that it's there. However distant or uncaring, it is there. All the times we thought it was the Greater Will's grace guiding us. How we gaslighted ourselves into thinking that for the sake of being an enjoyable video game we could keep our save system even after committing a lore- wise cardinal sin; it wasn't just a necessary suspension of disbelief, it was deepest lore. It was grace, yes, but Marika's grace without order
I dont believe that Marika was involved with the Black Knives plot, rather that Rogier was connecting that the Black Knife assassins were Numen like Marika is, the implication that she had close ties is erased with the implication of the DLC, which establishes she was the last of her specific sect of Numen, in fact i believe it was Godwyn's Murder and the curse that followed that made her commit the shattering, after everything shed done, eveerything she'd built and bled and suffered for, her children, all but him, were in some way cursed or damaged. Messmer, Malania and Miquella were afflicted. Morgott and Mohg were Omen born, bearing the visages of the very people who had hunted and eradicated her people. Ranni, Rykard and Radahn were really Radagon's children, and Melina had betrayed her, taking the name of the Gloam Eyed Queen and attempting to Usurp her. Godwyn's murder shattered her well before the Elden Ring felt the impact.
I love your Elden Ring videos because I think the narrative themes you explore and your character analysis is a way more entertaining and interesting way to understand the setting.
With the final Question being posed about which did Marika care about more? My answer to it is…does it really matter? It’s quite possible that Marika could’ve cared about both of those things simultaneously. Or even none of those things. Had she not attempted to destroy the Elden Ring, Radagon would’ve likely stolen control from her, and all the suffering that was caused by her reign would’ve persisted. The world would’ve probably been a different kind of hell entirely.
Highly disagree with this take. Especially the theory that she participated in the Assassination of Godwyn. The reason she imprisoned her omen children is so profoundly simple, it is the same reason omen as a whole are discriminated against, misbegotten as well: they are reminiscient of the Hornsent. Which a reminder for everyone here, The Hornsent viewed what we call the aspects of the crucible as signs of Divinity and in pursuit of that divinity not only built the tower of babel essentially BUT also mistreated the Shaman people, of which marika was part of that group, torturing them and forcing them into jars with other creatures in pursuit of Sainthood. It is The Death of Godwyn that drove her to the Brink of despair and caused her to shatter the Elden Ring and finally, Messmer was abandoned AFTER Marika attempted to ''soothe'' his curse with A PERSONAL granting of an Eye of Her Grace but upon seeing the base serpent shorn of light she grew afraid of him. The reason she Killed the Fire Giants is simply because of their fell god and the flame they wield being a direct threat to her Erdtree.
I believe that the black knives who killed godwyn had killed him revenge for marika's crusade in the land of shadow. Items state the black knives had connections to marika, but never states if they were positive or negative connections. Maybe the black knives didn't want marika to become a god, or maybe they believed Marika was a threat to the entire world, since they've seen what shes capable of
@mush2282 shadow of the erdtree trailer talks about a 'seduction' and 'betrayal' to reach Godhood. I don't see how Marika could betray the hornsent. I think she betrays her own people, the shamans, and she 'bathes her home in gold even through none are left to see it'. I think the black knives are some shaman/numen that seek revenge for marikas betrayal.
@@haydenthompson7790 It depends who is claiming betrayal. If we were to say hypothetically, that the Hornsent have rationalised their abuse against the Shamans as doing them some kind of favour turning them into 'Saints', then being 'turned on' by this Saint or God they have created could be seen as a betrayal.
@viktoriyaserebryakov2755 I guess that's possible. Does anything suggest that marika herself went into a jar and emerged a saint? She becomes a god at the gate of divinity, after which there appears to be no more shamans, but still enough hornsent to warrant messmers crusade. Also, all of marikas children being cursed seems to stem from her committing some horrible act, I think that fits well with her seducing and betraying her own people to reach godhood rather than the hornsent.
This was so refreshing to see a in-depth character analysis. Understanding Marikas thoughts , and emotions at different points in time and what the writers are thinking without going into theory tangents while keeping focusing on bigger picture. Your video and work for reading comprehension and analysis shows thank you
There is one thing you sort of glossed over with the theme of duality. You covered the main ones (Morgott/Margit, Ranni/Renna) but almost every major boss has a repeat fight or a distinct foil and at that point you have to ignore all the jokes about asset reuse and acknowledge it as a direct theme. There are two Ancestor Spirits, Astels, and Mohgs. Godrick has that weird evergoal fight with a different name. Even the mimic tear has two fights. Placidusax and Bayle are paired in a draconic civil war. Miquella has his promised consort fight and St. Trinia guarded by the putrescent knight contrasting how far he has risen and how far she fell. Renalla is an interesting one with phase one being her reduced phase 1 and phase 2 being an illusion of Ranni's memory set to protect her and then also her sister Rellana showing you just how badass the Carian royal actually were (and how weak they are for redheads apparently...). Godfrey/Horah Loux is similar in that it conveys the theme directly in the phase transition of the fight but there is also the Godfrey ghost fight that I like to head canon as Morgott protecting himself with his beloved father's memory so no one figures out that he is the only person still keeping the lights on so to speak. Fortisax is a weird one though. I think he's supposed to be paired with Lansseax as they both befriended Godwyn and but something something night of black knives, something something he's a dream within Godwyn or maybe Fia? IDK I haven't actually done that questline cuz fuck that one platforming puzzel. Point is, Its twins all the way down.
I think it be interesting to look at Godwyn. Since he is the oldest child and might have been born before any of Marika's sins (hence why he was unafflicted) he seems like a "could've been the savior" kind of character. As he was unafflicted and didn't seem to care for violence, but unlike miquella garners compassion from others through natural means (like how he befriended fortissax and put an end to the war) rather than a form of mind control.
Madness is the natural state of Marika's world and her concept of reality. By circumstance or circumvention - Madness is everywhere and she is absolutely not immune to its influence. In the deepest, darkest part of her Capital where she would establish her Order she banished her Madness but couldn't resolve it, or defeat it. It propagates as a manifest in things like the Eyes of Yellough--and while Shrabriri was gouged of his eyes for his slander--the typical crime for talking shit is to cut their tongue out - not their eyes. Madness has contaminated the soil, the water, the entire ecosystem as presented to us with the exploration of Midra and his Manse. The Altus plateau is presented to us, equally, in shades of red and yellow. Not Blood and Gold. The Merchant questline was cut because it was 'too obvious.' Force omission to create speculation and inspire the journey of exploration. Madness is depicted in Red and Yellow - the items of Hornsent we can wear reduce Focus to Zero; Focus controls our resistance to Madness.
I've always believed that Radagon was created by Marika using a mimic tear from the eternal cities. She poured her own essence into it, especially the part of her that's more hopeful/naive and idealistic. But then Radagon gradually grew into his own person with his own identity and worldview, except he is still linked to Marika and must answer her commands. By the point he happily married to Rennala and had several children, Marika figured it out and realized the danger of her own unhinged alter-ego gathering strength in Liurnia. As she just exiled Godfrey, a new Elden Lord is needed, and what's a better husband than her other self right? So she forcefully called him back, resulting in Radagon's hatred for her. I fully support the comment by @devidrachan on what happened next.
I like that it's open to interpretation if Marika really abandoned Messmer at all. Like, we know that Messmer's crusade happened pretty late in the timeline, at most after the Liurnian Wars or even after them, maybe even in Radagon's age. Did she really use her child and then seal him away with no intention of returning for him? Or did she send Messmer away, after which Night of Black Knives happened, Marika shattered the Ring and was imprisoned in the Erdtree until our Tarnished arrived there at the end of the game?
The timeline is so confusing. How did marika achieve all that without being a god yet, when was radagon a part of her. Messmer and the army are already part of the golden order, Melina, miquella etc. are already born and yet she didn't become a god yet
@@HonkieWithaBoomstick it couldn't take place before the war with the fire giants. Messmer and his commander, Gaius, were to Radahn as older brothers, and Radahn was only born after the Liurnian Wars.
@@saintxerxes3465 she became god before the war with the fire giants; that's clear enough. Miquella and Malenia were born after the start of Radagon's age; Messmer was born presumably either in the times of Godfrey's age or before that. The timeline is confusing, yes, but not that confusing in this regard.
Your videos rock, Fattbrett. I find myself wondering what other characters you might one day talk about. I'd love to hear your take on the Pale King from Hollow Knight in particular. That guy is ripe for interpretation. Whatever you do, though, I'll be happy to watch!
I think the main difference between Gwyn and Marika is that while both did horrible things, Gwyn seems to made them with the intent to benefit his people (Lords/Giants) as a whole rather than just himself and his family. On the other hand, all of Marika’s actions seem to be made with the goal of benefiting herself and all their positive impacts upon the world was a consequence rather than the intent.
And Gywn gained power without disrupting the natural order of the world when he ascend to lordship It was to be the age of fire and he became the king/god when it was needed. He didn't usurp anyone (expect the dragons). Marika, on the other hand, betrayed and backstabbed EVERYONE, during her ascension and also many who helped her after having become a god queen. Frankly, I think she got off easily, she had the gall to enact punishment upon herself, running away from just punishment to be enacted from her victims. She wanted to die? The one who wanted and betrayed everything and everyone in order to be "the eternal"? Does she think she gets that right, when all those she killed and suffered at her hands only wanted TO LIVE but were denied their right. In my view, it's an insult that they don't allow us to enact sentence directly upon this criminal. She doesn't get the right to rest, were it up to me she would get an ironic sentence, eternal life.
@@redheadsilver8041 Except Gwyn linking the flame with his own soul literally destroyed the natural order of the universe, and unleashed the darksign curse on normal people
@@bluebird2217 Sigil, signz whatever. The point is that doesnt start happening until Gwyn links the flame and then it starts dying again. Humans have dark souls and Gwyn wants to feed dark souls to the first flame to keep it going, so the hollowing curse compels humans to pursue the first flame and link it. So Gwyn essentially conscripts humanity to keep his age going long after he is dead.
Marika is the embodiment of the divine female. While Radagon is the embodiment of the divine male. Chaos and order. Marika craves change. Radagon craves perseveration.
Maybe Marika couldn’t even reach maliketh, since he’s in farum azula which may have been locked in time somehow to seal away the rune at one point. Maybe the tree is what was holding farum azula in another time & she needed someone to burn it & go get the rune
Suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness. you might “stop” the suffering, but you curse those who love and care for you. Marika’s suicide meant the end of the world. Y’know that saying “oh cmon it’s not the end of the world.” It was for her. A suicidal god. Terrifying
alright I'm gonna pitch in my two-cents about the jar saints and why the hornsent were interested in using the shamans and what for. This is sort of predicated on the idea that the hornsent are correct that the shamans do meld with the flesh of others easily. I assume that this would be observable and that this feature is absolutely crucial for the purpose to which these jar saints are intended. The Divine Tower has many petrified bodies used in it's construction, melded together. If you peak into some of the jars with broken seals in the cold Gaols of the Shadow Realm, the bodies take on a consistency and color closer to that of the mortar used in the Divine Tower. The purpose of the jar saints, and by extension the hornsent, is the construction of a tower leading to divinity using the victims of the Hornsent's power as building material. The Jar Saints act as a binding agent to turn mundane bodies into the building blocks of godhood. Godhood the Hornsent intended to claim at the cost of the shamans and their own criminals. Marika likely did gain some sort of importance within the Towerfolk society as a result of becoming a jar saint, as I can see no other path for her to be able to betray them and claim their ill-gotten divinity for herself.
Amazing video. Love the deep dive into marika’s character, she’s one of my favorite characters of Elden ring as a whole. Looking forward to the radagon vid. Subbed
Honestly I have no sympathy for Marika she did everything to herself and when she figured she did it all for nothing that is her only moment of realization that she was a monster an will always be a monster
So what you're saying is that Ranni's ending is the 'most canon' one? Since Marika will finally be free and if we become Marika's lord we just prolong her suffering
I have to do a long comment about this video, but for now i'll just put out a reply to the last part; Radagon is not the villain, or a fanatic or worst part of Marika. Let's start from the... well, the start: What we know about Radagon? He's Marika, another version of Marika, part of Marika, they are the same being with two different minds and a lot of contrasts between them. But, what we know about him? We know he's curious, he wants to study everything, Incantations and Sorceries. (And this looks like pretty against Golden Order faith base). Not only, he united and Integrated Liurnia in the Order with Diplomacy, not War (He was sent to war but the results are better than Giants) We also know he had a very good relationship with his wife and his family. Radanh uses Red for Redmane to quote his Dad, he and Miquella gifted eachother spells and, japanese translation, he forged his Blade to remember the same form of the Moonlight, the blade he gave to Rennala. If you forge your personal weapon to remind the blade that rappresent your marriage, means you care about it. About fundamentalism, Radagon a lot of times is related to it. Spells about him and Miquella, the pose that Goldmask do, his passion for Int and Faith both.(Fundamentalism spells uses both Int and Faith.) But, attention. Now we are talking about old fundamentalism, the one about Ring's light and Laws, the one that is said in game being a Accademic study in all but in the name. Actual fundamentalism are a bunch of fanatics like D. This means Radagon during his age was all but not a fanatic. He's still loyal to the Order? Yes, but loyalty does not mean fanatism. You protect your country even if you know all the flaws of it. Also, Shatter the Elden Ring is not just Order Gone, it ruins ALL REALITY. Think it, what happens when we use Frenzied Flame? Everyone dies and no more respawn. To put it in our own way, think is someone decide to shatter the laws of physic and life and death. Ragadon tried to save the World, or st least himself and the World as a consequence. He blocks our way for the Elden Ring, and yeah, this is egoistic, but think a moment, he always was the n.2, the lesser version of a perfect being, an incomplete (his need to be complete) being, now little more of a corpse uses as a puppet by Elden Beast, he wants to defend himself. Also, in 1.0 a map say he warned people about the return of Tarnished, so maybe he knew about Marika's plan for them. Also we killed 3 of his children so... i think he's a bit piss off.
Radagon changed renalas moonsword into golden order sword and left it to nameless red lion guy... he is odin afterall bc he just wanted carian sorcery to make golden order more perfect. he is just odin who is crazy to every knowledge.
@@플스선민주의 About the sword, is mistranslated. Japanese says he forged the sword to have the same form, not he re-forged the Moonlight. He wants knowledge, yes, but he loved his family. For the lion, except some possible cut-content about Lions-Radagon, the answer probably is: Miquella took things from Leyndell during the Shattering, put them in the carriages we see on the road for the Haligtree(In two of them we find St.Trina Torch and the sword of Malenia's master) and the Lion attack one of them and stealed the sword.
Y'know, with the mention of the betrayal that Marika did to the Hornsent and the possibility that she was the first true saint to emerge from the jar, it's possible that the Hornsent wish for her to become their god and let her pass through the Gate of Divinity to ascend. But then she betrayed them, or at the very least, they viewed it as a betrayal, because they thought she'd be grateful and forgive them for their transgressions against her people because now she was all-powerful. That she'd let bygones be bygones, and maybe it seemed like that for a time. But then the Omen began to get persecuted, and the Golden Order grew monstrous in power, and soon, her son Messmer was marching to their doorstep to purge their entire race. They thought she'd never try to harm them despite the vile crimes they committed against the Shamans because they viewed turning her into a God as the culmination of their work, and that she'd be thankful for it. They might have genuinely thought they did good by her. But she instead saw their violence against her people and turned it against them.
A Consideration on Mohg and Morgott, her children by Godfrey- They are not cursed; they are blessed by something she hates. Recall that the Hornsent, who are responsible for much of her suffering, idolized the Crucible- a force of vibrant life, and evolution. They viewed Horns as a sign of divinity, a blessing- and indeed, Omen are supernaturally strong and enduring, at the least. Is it not possible then that neither Mohg nor Morgotts stares were truly curses, save that Marika, in her trauma, saw them as such? It could well be argued their nature as Omens was an endorsement of her and Godfrey's right to rule and Divinity, by some.
“What’s your favourite spell, Marika?”
“A spell to create a field of flowers.”
Don't you start 😭
Where is it come from? Could you explain, please?
@@DRKL Most likely frierin reference
Marika's tits! Thank you, fellow tarnished! Although, I still didn't get it :)
@@DRKL it's Frieren's answer to Serie.
References how Marika planted a gold tree in her former village to remember / pay respect to the dead she cared about.
For Frieren it's something similar since without that spell, she wouldn't have met her hero companions and it also helps her remember her former master. Very bittersweet type of thing. "sad it's over but glad it happened". Not really the vibe of Elden Ring but same "bittersweetness"
It was pretty crazy, beating Metyr, reading all the descriptions and realizing that Marika was probably lied to her whole life, especially while she was vulnerable due to the trauma inflicted by the Hornsent.
Goes to show what an important theme cycles of violence and abuse are in Elden Ring.
i think that ymir is bullshitting me, he is also being manipulated by metyr
It all begins with Metyr being abandoned by a cold, uncaring, incredibly distant cosmic parent who takes actual millennia to respond to its children. The first "imperfect" child of an embodiment of order. The ultimate expression of parental neglect. This pattern then repeats over and over through those guided by disillusioned Metyr. Meanwhile, her counterpart, the Elden Beast is the "perfect" child, obedient to the point of becoming an object, a tool for its parent to influence the world below, same as Radagon.
haha get it? elden RING and the CYCLE of violence
The real Elden Ring was the abuse and neglect we experienced along the way
It's depressingly hilarious that the Greater Will is likely so distant and uncaring that it doesn't even realise how bad things are in the Lands Between, because it has so many other 'fiefdoms' to manage and influence. Hence why Metyr is frantically working off of the last thing she was told before the connection was severed.
So many have been working off of out of date information.
Marika was never in contact or even working for the greater will is my fave part. The fingers literally just made it up for her
The two fingers whenever someone comes for guidance and there's no response from the Greater Will: "Fuck it, we ball".
I love the Finger revelations in the DLC. Adds a whole new depth to Marika’s character that hadn’t been considered by the community prior to the DLCs release.
And yet… it still perfectly fits with how the Two Fingers are treated in the basegame. It’s been in front of our faces this WHOLE time lol. It also perfectly fits with George Martins reuse of characters that are of high political experience who misshape and mislead their Lord/Queen into their secret agendas. Take Otto Hightower, Tywin Lannister, or even Lord Varys sometimes
Well yes & no. The elden beast acting as agent of the Greater Will stole all the golden sap from the erdtree so it’s not like she wasn’t still being guided by the Greater Will.
She wasn’t directly in contact with it like she thought but she was still being controlled by those doing its bidding so she was working for it.
All those powers of Metyr & Elden Beast still originate from the Greater Will.
@@coltrueg What? the Elden Beast never steals golden sap from the Erdtree, and everything in the world originates from the Greater Will's actions.
They weren't in contact, but they didn't make it up. The two fingers were working on the greater will's guidance. It just turns out that guidance is more of like a voice mail with poor signal rather than a direct line.
It's not unlike actual religion. Religious zelets interpret the word of god and attempt to record and spread it. Any inconsistencies or sins of that religion in the past are a misinterpretation of God's will.
It's crazy how many people overlook that Marika's shattering of the Elden Ring was essentially a suicide attempt. I believe this is what returned Grace to the Tarnished as well, hoping for them to bring an answer to her sorrow.
That’s how I’ve always interpreted the Tarnished - a last ditch contingency plan to enable SOMEONE to kill her in the event she’s trapped by immortality
Except it's not at all hard to understand why many people, including myself, see her actions as wanting to harm RADAGON and the Greater Will, not herself. A prisoner doesn’t want someone to come and kill them, they want someone to come and destroy the prison and kill the Warden.
My personal interpretation of the night of the black knives went down something along these lines.
Ranni's two fingers begin exerting control over her and tries to force her to become a god under their control.
Ranni tries to rebel by stealing the rune of death and committing the night of the black knives. Without Marika's knowledge of the matter.
Marika seeing her children killed at the hands of the numen her own people. Especially Godwyn was the straw that broke the camel's back.
Marika imprisons Hewg in the round table as an insurance policy right before the shattering. Then proceeds to start the shattering in a suicide attempt. Only for Radagon and the elden beast to intervene and ultimately end in a stalemate where Marika is imprisoned. Leading to the events of the shattering and the subsequent world state we find the game in.
Radagon/Marika are the same person so i think we have to assume that both personalities are acting in accordance with each other @ChanceClubs
In game dialog has marika say "thou art yet to become me" to radagon. Seems like they might not been as unified as you suggested @@homelessgenie3366
What if Radagon was truly in love with Renala. It caused him pain when Marika forced him to abandon his beloved family, but being her other half, didn't have a choice. Seeing how it tore her family apart grew Rannis resentment of the golden order and anything tied to it. Once Marika decided to destroy her order, Radagon was pissed, because he probably felt betrayed. He had abandoned everything for absolutely nothing, and in revenge, decided to force Marika to maintain the status quo, so as for his personal sacrifices not to be in vain.
That’s a pretty good interpretation actually. Makes a ton of sense as to why Radagon would be so pissed at Marika and try to fix the Elden Ring, cuz it’s all he had left at that point.
never heard of this take on Radagon. That's a really cool theory
Okay, but when we enter the boss fight, Marika is strapped to the Elden ring. Radagon only changes from that form when we approach, then he used by Elden beast as a sword.
Doesn’t make much sense to me
Makes pretty good sense to me 👍
I like this. Really compounds the tragedy of it all. 👌
I think it's quite clear what Marika found when she set aside blind faith and searched the depths of the Golden Order. Ymir spells it out for us:
"The conceits - the hypocrisy - of the world built upon the Erdtree. The follies of men. Their bitter suffering. Is there no hope for redemption? The answer, sadly, is clear. There never was any hope. They were each of them defective. Unhinged, from the start. Marika herself. And the fingers that guided her. And this is what troubles me. No matter our efforts, if the roots are rotten, …then we have little recourse."
Marika discovers Metyr had been abandoned by the Greater Will long ago, and her Godhood and order were not in fact guided by some omnipotent higher power. This discovery causes a crisis of faith for her.
Ymir is insane and wants to replace Metyr. I wouldn’t put much stalk in what he says but he’s not all wrong. Metyr was injured by The Black Knives and so her ability to communicate with both her Children and her Father is crippled. The Greater Will has not abandoned The Land but it has abandoned the people who want to claim its favor. None are worthy because they sow only chaos. The Tarnished are the last chance because they understand the struggle against this unfair world its would-be subjects have caused. They have cause to kill the Demigods and Cause to fix this broken World. The Greater Will does not care what form Order takes as long as Order exists.
@@Broomer52It wasn't by the black knives, it was by the finger slayer blade which was most likely made from the missing nameless god of the age of dragons. Its creation and use is most likely the sin that caused the Nox to be banished underground.
@@rwberger6 The black knives might have had ties to the eternal cities, so both could be true.
The way I prefer to read Marika is as a deeply tragic villain, who fell into being an abominable tyrant due to the trauma she underwent in her past. Her initial actions were born of vengeance to lash out at the ones who victimized her and her people, and then at the ones she saw as cursing the family she managed to scrape together in the wake of it all. From there, she tried and failed to create what she considered a better world, due to how her trauma shaped her perceptions and reactions to those like the Omen and the Misbegotten. Finally, at the very end, with no idea how to change it, how to fix it, how to put the pieces back together… she sought to end it all, just to escape the pain - and we all know how that ended.
eternal suffering; used as a vessel to keep the rune together.
I read her as a foil to Gwyn. Rather than destroying the world through control, she’s aiming to release it.
Then Radagon sealing away the Erdtree prolonged the suffering. Should Morgott were to enter the Erdtree, he would be the next ruler of the golden order and with his new strength can shorten the wars.
I think Marika's comment about wallowing at the fringes is directed at Miquella. The Haligtree is literally at the fringes. And his ambitions are of a fundamentally powerless upstart. He took advantage of the existing family feud to further his ambitions and charmed powerful people to balance his powerlessness. I think she saw how her Order was flawed and abusable and decided to destroy it. And she saw that Miquella was terrifying.
Interesting! I always thought it was directed toward Godfrey leading up to his banishment/stripping of Grace, and found the vid’s interpretation convincing, but the idea that it is Miquella could have huge implications. Miquella was Radagon’s favorite imo, whereas Godwyn was clearly Marika’s, so it would seem the that the Night of Black Knives was intended less as simple revenge and more as a means to disrupt the chain of succession…
She could be disgusted of the though, that hornsent will gain loving and compassionate god after what they have done to her folk. Imagine the horror and riot
Good point 👍
I think the "powerless upstart" line can be interpreted in three ways.
- As the video states, a manifestation of Marika becoming an authoritarian.
- As an ironic echo of both her past and future, of which Marika was aware. She was once a powerless upstart herself, and may have sensed that for the Golden Order to change, another powerless upstart may be needed (the Tarnished).
- She was also aware that within the Golden Order, any powerless upstart would be destroyed, so one was needed to come from the outside. The Tarnished count as such, since she banished them from the Golden Order. As you say, Miquella may be another.
However, it should be noted that how, exactly, the Golden Order is to be changed is a matter left to each "upstart". We do not know what Godfrey intended. Miquella, ironically, decided to apparently take the same path Marika did, except instead of following the Jar Ritual that it is speculated gave birth to her divine persona, it seems he chooses to divest himself of everything he was before heading to the Divine Gate (to create a more perfect Age of Compassion by avoiding his curse, metaphorically and literally). Finally, there is us, who have different options, one of them including joining forces with Ranni to bring about an age of, ironically enough, no Order at all. We will go to the Stars with Ranni, leaving the Lands Between to flourish as they will without the influence of any gods (and perhaps the point of Ranni and us going to the Stars is to protect the Lands Between from any Outer Gods that may come, and possibly against a second attempt by the Greater Will to influence the world).
Ye, but isn't she just referring to the fact that you lose the grace of gold you become an outcast and lose the power that the blessing of the erdtree provides? Miquella is kind of an example of that but it's a bit much to say that she is referring to him.
St. Trina reminds me of how in dreams, in real life, you can't yell, say anything or make sounds. She tries to enunciate every part of her words and she'll never be any stronger or awake...
I think her dialogue to her children was a prophecy, a warning to them that they were cursed (just like her) and if they didn't fight their way out of it they would fall to ruin (just like her). Becoming a lord or god is not the final step in avoiding Marika's fate but so long as people would seek divine power her children would be targets unless they had the strength of a god. Whether its the golden order, the hornsent or whomever came before the people were always seeking divine power and sacrificing others to get to that power.
I also thought that it was a warning to them.
Yeah, it was definitely one kind of Hail Mary one way or another. I interpret this as her either being kind enough to warn her children of the coming shitstorm or guiding them to a self- fulfilling prophecy of death.
@@lukassiqueira314One in which Kindly Miquella did not heed
Brett, there is a channel called TheCenteredTarnished. He breaks down the story of Elden Ring in terms of trauma and psychology, with the demigods being psychological aspects. I think you’d find it fascinating
wow thanks for suggestion even if it was not for me haha
The Marika stuff he does is really good!
@@TheDenres192 happy to help bro
Thanks for the suggestion, I tend to like videos like these.
Suggesting pretentious garbage. Typical fromsoft community.
Also, one more thing, Miquella's curse is that of nascence, not necessarily youth. He's cursed that all of his ambitions never reach their full potential: unalloyed gold, the haligtree, even his own epoch.
It sucks to suck. Rest in piss Miquella.
so like in Berserk, the cursed baby spirit?
I like to think, after the DLC shows us everything Miquella had to go through in order to follow in her footsteps and replicate her ascension we get a glimpse of what ascending actually means. The process involved shedding just about everything that makes you who you are and what comes out on the other side of the Gate of Divinity is only an echo of who you used to be and entirely up to chance if that echo is strong enough to actually do what you intended. We see Miquella shed all of his body and soul but the loss of Saint Trina was the turning point where what was left to ascend would fundamentally betray his original intent, as a god without compassion is incapable of delivering the gentler world he envisioned.
With Marika I feel like, guided as she was by the Greater Will, it led her to ascension knowing and intending to use Radagon and she was just the vessel it needed to get the champion it needed to seize control of the Lands Between. It was too late for her to question the Greater Will by the time things started going wrong, and the fact that she removed the rune of Death from the Elden Ring did indeed trap her as Saint Trina suggests will happen to Miquella.. She was outplayed by the outer god and in her other half she was going to be usurped leaving her one desperate way out; shatter the ring.
Exactly, how could a god bereft of compassion and love ever truly bring about a kind and gentle world?
@@yukiotacon2846 My reading of that was Miquella trying to prevent another Radagon issue arising within his new world. Miquella didn't want to have to fight against his other self in the future, as the competing personas of their leader led directly to the Golden Order fracturing.
Actually the FLC heavily impiles the Greater Will had nothing to do withs whats going on in the lands between and is probably unaware of what's actually happening
Wrong. Marika ascended by a different method. She did not become a god by forsaking her flesh.
@@yukiotacon2846 when he says "I abandon here my love." He isn't talking about his capacity for love, he's calling Trina his "love." The Japanese translates more accurately to "my beloved."
I find it so interesting how two Empyreans, Miquella and Marika, both have two souls in one body that can transform or split at will or by force, yet D has two bodies for his one soul.
By the way there's a VERY subtle transition at the very end of the announcement trailer. As Marika is falling against the anvil, head bowed, you can see her shoulder very subtly bulking up, becoming masculine. And if I'm not crazy, it's difficult to see but her hair is beginning to very slightly shift to red. The act is done and Radagon is in the process of taking over.
Youre literally seeing things. Throughout the trailer they are switching back and forth like the game tells us.
We start out seeing Radagon hammering to fix it. We never actually see Marika breaking it, only Radagon trying to fix it. We only see Marika standing/falling in front of the light or holding the hammer in front of herself with two hands.
The last scene transitions from Marika looking up at the shattered ring and then it switches to Radagon slumped over the anvil in defeat after realizing he can't fix it. The "bulking up" youre seeing in the last scene is Radagon's shoulders cracking apart more.
We never actually see the transformation take place. Its always done with cuts in the announcement trailer.
@@ATC43 It's obviously Marika slumping over the anvil. I was willing to entertain you until you said it was Radagon. Further, two points:
1) We DO see the transition, right before the boss fight. We don't see the shapechange, but we get to see the complete shift in hair color from Marika's to Radagon's.
2) Discreetly slipping 2 seconds of transformation in at the very end of the announcement trailer years before the game comes out is a VERY From thing to do.
@nERVEcenter117 I meant in the trailer we never see the switch. In the base game, yes.
But no, the slumped figure is not Marika..look at the cracks on the back they are in the same spots as Radagon when he's hammering and the torso is clearly male, ie no boobs in the last slumped scene. Plus the hair is distinctly Red unlike the scene just before it showing Marika.
At the end of the trailer they show Marika looking up at her accomplished goal of shattering the ring before falling, after which she switches to Radagon who is in despair at the Ring being broken. It's literally there to see if you watch the trailer.
It's Radagon slumped over not Marika, we see her fall, you can see her smirk a little before she collapses. The way the hair is styled gives it away too, Radagon's hair is a tightly bound braid likely a nod to his strive for order and formality, while Marika's is like a loose French braid as she yearns for freedom.
@@nERVEcenter117 "I was willing to entertain you" you could not be more pretentious, this is lore about a video game.
Shadowbound beast like Maliketh are tailored by the Two Fingers for their Empyrean.
However, their loyalty to that Empyrean can be compromised, and their will can be overwritten by that of the Two Fingers at any moment.
We see this with Blaidd, who was the most loyal to Ranni, desperately trying to fight off the control they had over him.
It’s likely this was the case with Maliketh. Whom was directed to guard Death because the Two Fingers wanted to eliminate the possibility of her dying.
So even if he wanted to, Maliketh would not be able to just hand over Death to Marika. Simply because it would go against his programming.
The two fingers don't seem to care who the god is and what form their order takes, as long as it's an order predicated on the elden ring. If marika was their one and only chosen god, they wouldn't be choosing empyreans to replace her.
@@playmsbk yes they do. They’re replacing Marika bc she was actively antagonizing the Greater Will.
@@playmsbk as someone else stated, the reason why they seek a replacement is because they sense disorder amongst their order. Basegame Melina dialogue suggests Marika harboured doubts long before Godwyn even died.
The Fingers’ “backup plan” to replace Marika was a result of how recklessly they manipulated Marika in the ShadowLands. They lied to her, telling her what she wanted to hear, that her ambitions and goals will be fulfilled so as long as she fears the “Greater Will.” Of course, now we know that the fingers are lying, they probably manipulated Marika in her beginnings. This was ALWAYS likely going to backfire on them, as is the case with the act of ‘dishonesty’ in most Martin and Miyazaki stories.
Marika, being the central character of the story, was always going to get what she wanted by the end of the story to some extent, whether she dies or lives. By the end, she simply wanted to destroy that which plunged her life into hell, the Elden Ring and the Fingers. That’s why the Elden Ring was shattered. She shattered the very thing that ruined her life. In this act, knowing she would physically become destroyed, she shattered the Ring all the same. Her life didn’t matter to her. But just like how she purged the Hornsent for destroying her people, she did the same to the Elden Ring. It’s a full circle story that ends in Marika disregarding her own life for the sake of her people. The terrible cycle of violence and vengeance
@@HeevaEgo I have a few problems with this.
Firstly, the fingers seem perfectly content and able to imprison Marika inside the erdtree and let her be a husk simply containing the elden ring, that is the whole point of the roundtable hold and the basic ending of the game. If order can function in this way, why go to the trouble of finding empyreans.
Secondly, the godskin apostasy was the event that lead to the formation of the golden order, as per the finger reader crones words the golden order was founded by the removal of destined death, and the godskins were lead by an empyrean. That could mean that the golden order was founded at a much later date or that the fingers wanted to remove Marika from the start.
And finally, maliketh sealed destined death per the orders of Marika and seems perfectly loyal to Marika to the end. If the fingers really wanted to replace Marika, why allow this and why not use maliketh to kill her, since he is literally the only being that could kill Marika.
Godhood being a prison is one of my favorite tropes in media. No matter how powerful a human character may become (they may even become powerful enough to be considered a god) their human flaws and temperaments always end up being their downfall.
Marika went from being a powerless and abused shaman girl to being the uncontested ruler of the entire land, she started an entire new order, literally rewrote the laws of reality to her will, and she wiped out anyone who could’ve posed a threat to her (even one of her own children if we assume that Melina is the gloam eyed queen). However despite all of this, she was still unable to escape the plights of her past life.
In a cruel yet fitting sense of irony, 2 of her children were born with the exact same features of the people who see despised, and despite literally removing the concept of death in order to prevent anyone close to her dying ever again, her one perfect golden son was brutally murdered.
The order she created was rife with suffering, death, and discrimination. Pretty much all of her children were born afflicted, and overall being a god seemed pretty damn miserable, which is why In the end she decided to literally shatter it.
It reminds me of Eren and Ymir from Attack on Titan. Ymir was also an abused and powerless slave girl who stumbled across godly power. Her misuse of this power resulted in thousands of years of suffering and tyranny, and in the end not even “death” could free her from the hell of her own creation. That is until Eren comes along and he essentially takes the burden away from her onto himself. Eren essentially becoming a god allows him to achieve his goals but it also forces him to confront the worst aspects of his nature before he does it. He is torn apart by the fact that he will inflict the same awful trauma that he faced on the entire world (even people who had nothing to do with his conflict) only on a much larger scale, he also must confront the fact that despite living his entire life in the pursuit of freedom, he couldn’t have been further from free in the end. Because he sees through time and realizes that everything was always going to happen a certain way and he had no choice but to essentially follow a script.
Moral of the story, don’t play god folks.
To be honest tho it’s a stupid trope, why? Because it always centers that there are consequences and that they do not have unlimited power. If you were an all powerful god and you always got what you wanted, in reality life would be great for you. You wouldn’t suffer in the slightest.
Marika is cursed by the hornsent to have hornsent children and the Hornsent have the gall to think they did nothing wrong and didnt think about why this is happening to them.
Thats why Marika hates them so much even to this day.
@@edwinbasa2804 I understand why she did what she did but still, I can’t bring myself behind most, if not all, her actions. It is all one awful cycle of misery and hate, of victims making more victims. I guarantee you that the Hornsent civilization is not a monolith and had many who were unaware or did not approve of some of their more grotesque practices such as a Greater Potentate from Bonny Village who was disgusted by the jarring practices that he made cookbooks for jarring items that specifically excluded using living beings from the process and who were also subject to their own brethren’s brand of cruelty if found guilty such as the Hornsent spirits in Midra's manse who begged their fellow Hornsent Inquisitors to spare them and ask what their master Midra was guilty of.
@@VictorIV0310 This is why I don’t get why so many people say the hornsent deserved it. Like do I feel bad for them? Not really because the things they did to the shaman (and probably other groups considering the size of their kingdom) was atrocious. But that doesn’t mean they deserved to have their entire people and culture wiped off the map. Not to mention the endless amount of fucked up shit Marika did or oversaw while she ruled. Not every resident in the lands between was responsible for all the fucked up shit the golden order did, just the same way not every hornsent was responsible for what happened to Marika. Hell if we judged every civilization by such standards then pretty much every group of people on earth would deserved to get wiped out lol.
I love the dlc because it truly tells an unbiased picture of how tragic and endless the cycle of violence really is. Frenzied flame ending makes more and more sense the further you progress and see how fundamentally broken the land that you are trying to rule over is.
This makes it so boring.
I mean, I think we know fairly well why Marika wouldn't have been able to get the Rune of Death from Maliketh. For the same reason we had to put down Blaidd. Because empyrean shadow beasts are servants of the Two Fingers and would be forced to stop anyone plotting against them, even their masters.
@@TrueDiox But the point is: Fingers care? We see then try to control Blaidd, because Ranni's plan was kill the Fingers themself. Marika about killing herself? Why Fingers should care, they called 3 Empyreans, heirs of Marika's divinity.
@@themaniae4803 To keep her silent and to send a message no one defies our will.
@@mercerholt8299 If they wanted to keep her silent why don't just let her die by her own hand then? Or unleash Maliketh against her?
@@themaniae4803 The second part answer it they need to make an example of her remember the two fingers are all about control they expect you to 100 years for them tofind a new way to open the Erd tree. When you do burn down the Erd tree they're shocked you defied them and I suspect the only reason they didn't punish you was because they couldn't.
@@mercerholt8299 Ehm, no? They are shocked that Grace, what they believed to be the Greater Will... will, has led you to the Tree but the Tree itself is closed and, confused, they go to ask for help from the GW, not understanding GW is gone by a looooong time.
Also, they can punish you, literally they have Assassins exactly for hunt and kill other Tarnished, but from when we find the door locked they are in call with GW, and Enia says "Ah, you want to burn the Erdtree? Ok." Sure, they probably don't want to burn it, but literally the situation from that point is "Boss is not here, let's do whatever we want."
A way I’ve been thinking about it is that Merika is someone who was tragically never able to overcome her own trauma. She witnessed great atrocities from a presumably young age with the genocide of her people by the hornsent.
This trauma led her to genocide the hornsent in return, as well as any omens born in her own order, as likely the mere thought of horned people brought back her repressed memories. The same can be said of the land of Shadow, and even Messmer. She tasked him with cleansing the LoS of the hornsent, but he was so attached to that purpose that he would come to remind her of her past. Maybe this is part of the reason she abandoned him in the LoS and never returned to her home.
Her Trauma likely manifested as a split personality which allowed her to cope with it, wich resulted in Radagan. Radagan is Merika in the sense that Merika is the dominant but deeply disturbed personality, and Radagan is the more emotionally sound personality that takes over to ease Marina’s stress. Eventually the two personalities would come to disagreements in how they perceive their order, and the greater will would favor the one that wanted to preserve it.
Glad you talked about Radagon in this way. It's really interesting to hear a perspective like this because of how much the fandom tends to meatride Radagon, Radahn, and Godfrey.
@@callumreilly9107 Tecnically all demigods and main bosses (except Rennala and Last Giant) are bad because they serve or were ruined by a corrupted Order. Radanh and Godfrey were warriors and generals of armies, surely innocents are died because of them, as Radagon in the end try to not succumb to us, even if this means status quo, but there is a different between a Radanh and a Rykard. Like Dark Souls, Gwyndolin is not innocent, but Aldritch is damn worst.
Radahn and Godfrey are one thing, but genuinely, I'm curious who you see out there who gives Radagon a ton of props. From what I can tell most people treat him with the same energy as Marika, except worse because he's still fully committed to keeping up the Golden Order. I know I don't like him because without his cockblocking Morgott probably wouldn't have come to the final conclusion he came to, and maybe could've become Elden Lord
@@aydenbonnet9630 A lot of them see him as a fanatic, power-hungry, heart-breaker asshole, when multiple times he showed as a open-mind, good dad and husband an yeah, loyal, but not fanatic. (Even because, you know, crush the Elden Ring means possibly destroy all life so... i can understand why he tried to protect it.)
@@aydenbonnet9630 I've seen it in youtube comment sections before, can't think of specific videos though
I do think, she was the one success of the Hornsent’s melding-ritual. She first became their Saint. The one they were trying so desperatelly to create. Marika proceeded to be that Saint and made the Hornsent to show her the way to become a god. The moment she stood before the Gate of Divinity, she revealed her rage and killed the Hornsent as brutally as she could to avenge her people. “The Seduction and the Betrayal.”
After this video Maliketh last words hurts even more. “Witless tarnished. Why covet Destined Death? To kill what?”
He died because she changed her mind 😭
Jar Saint is a mistranslation. Saint, using Kanji, is used to talk about a Good Person, not a Holy or Ascended one. In the end what Hornsents did was "Go inside the Jar and you'll free from your sins, suffering a terrible eternal torment."
I agree with this notion. What the hornsent did was an act of genocide, and one key part of that is rationalisation. Prejudice is what keeps the gears of genocide turning and make it be seen through to the end, any other stated reason is a lie to others and themselves to stave off guilt. That's what the whole "jar saint" thing is: just a flimsy excuse, and as someone who's part of a minority group that has to deal with quite a lot of prejudice myself I find it quite obvious
@@zeppie_ Not only genocide. Shamans were just the special ingredient, not the main target. Prisoners were the real target, and in a society ruled by Inquisition it's probably a lot of those prisoners were just not-enough-devoted people and, probably, a lot of people not-hornsents. The clan of Bloodfiends were slaves before Messmer and the Mother after all.
@@themaniae4803 Well, the Bloodfiend clan may have been slaves; it is not set in stone, as the description could very well be referring to Messmer's subjugation of the tribe, and I think that is more likely.
The cycle of violence and trauma isn't just a common literary trope, but it is real in this world too. Marika is tragic as she is guilty. Both a hero who tried her very best to make the world a better place, and a villain who - knowingly at least on some level - created unforgiveable suffering for her children and whole civilisations.
This is why Ranni’s ending is my favorite. We as the player surrender the power we have to Ranni who then takes that power away from the Lands Between. This essentially frees everyone from the toxic power struggle that has destroyed the realm.
Except those who live in death are running around and the issue is still present. They have no soul. They are just bodies shambling around. And Godwyn has become monsterous. I can’t forgive ranni for that.
@@Parhelion2 Those who live in Death very much come from the Elden Ring going boom and the Rune of Death being absent. No Elden Ring nothing to keep Those Who Live in Death, well, undead.
@@arthurrebello919 why tho? Those Who Live in Death are brought to life because of Godwyn, and there is no indication that because Elden Ring would be outside of the Lads Between, he would die.
That ignores that Ranni and her plans were a MAJOR factor in everything going to hell. She did remove the toxic power struggle but only after kickstarting the apocalyptic war that left literally everyone except her in a worse position.
@@Parhelion2 Right?! I love Ranni, but I'm not gonna ignore her part in creating the crapstorm that is the Lands Between when we arrive as tarnished.
you know the game and the characters are GOATED when after 2 years people are still interpreting what they think and how they perceive the story.
Great Video!🔥
Its Tuesday. My week has been dog shit but seeing a Fat bret upload has literally given me the will to live.
20:25
I love the juxtaposition of Roderika next to the statue of Marika here.
The Mommy to end all Mommy Issues
the only "mommy" part about her is the "Mommy" issues she gives all her children.
she's the Mommy that gives the issues
On the origins of Marika; Those who come from abused house holds usually end up becoming abusers themselves, this explains her psychology and motivations
I'd adjust that as someone with plenty of horrific experiences with *some*, not usually. It's a bit of a bad thing to generalize in such a way, as it draws attitudes, stigma, and suspicions onto survivors of abuse. There is by no shortage of chain breakers or those working through their problems, finding constructive ways to heal and to use that experience as a positive force to impact the world. Choosing what to do with the hurt is always an option. There is no doom or destiny placed, no taint or curse, as the chains can be chosen to be shattered. The cycle will not go on. Which is the choice of many. It's just chain breakers get no gratitude or appreciation for the choice that takes immense bravery to choose, and can even face ostracization or suspicion from others for the fact they broke the cycle.
That’s just an excuse told by abusers.
@@videocrowsnest5251This. OP AND the comment immediately after you are both wrong in... ironically opposite ways.
You got that reversed actually. Most people who are abusers themselves have been abused, but most people who *are* abused do not go on to then abuse others.
So the pattern is, if you see someone getting abused, they most likely will go on to NOT visit their pain on other people. However, if you DO see someone doing just that, there is a VERY high likelihood it is because they themselves were abused in the past.
@@videocrowsnest5251 who is ostracizing people for not being abusers???
24:53 I don't know why, but the thought of Marika saying this while drunk is hilarious to me.
Thank god u posted, been scratching the walls
I'd like to propose the theory that Radagon is actually a completely separate entity that was fused with Marika in a jar. Both maintained their consciousness, Marika being the Shaman but Radagon being a criminal or outcast.
Why they began to fight is because Marika became a God to make a better world, which she failed miserably to do. While Radagon went along with it because it was his second chance at life. When Marika wanted to die and be done, Radagon fought because he liked his new life and position as a "benevolent" God. Maybe it's not just the flesh that gets fused, but consciousness and spirit. But in Marika's case, her and Radagon maintained their independence.
40:09 I think that the reason why Marika successfully became a Living Saint is because she was put in the jar in a way that fulfilled certain alchemical requirements that the Hornsent were unaware of. In terms of the alchemy of Elden Ring you need a "White Queen" and a "Red King" in order to create a divine being. Marika was the White Queen and she was forced into a jar with a Red King: Radagon. Fusing the two of them together created a new being of massive power and the rest is history. Read up on the alchemical theory of Elden Ring if you don't know what I'm talking about.
Very interesting, was Miquella trying to achieve the same thing then, with Radahn as a Red King and himself as a white "queen"?
I take it you also watched that video?
@@filipporapetti9354 That is a very cool idea. I do think that Marika became a god by sacrificing the Hornsent. I think that Miquella tried to sacrifice parts of himself instead, so that he didn't have to kill anyone. I think that Melina tried to do the same thing and that's why she doesn't have a body.
The story of elden ring sucks and 60% of it is conjecture with allegories that only vaguely align with the plot.
Dark souls 1 is and will always be fromsoftware’s best narrative. Simple concise, and best of all the visual art, music, and writing all align with the plot in beautifully cohesive package. No need for knowledge of alchemy, psychology, ancient religions and geography to only vaguely piece together a story either.
All the jars used Red and White Mushrooms. The big difference I guess, is the quality.
The Numen are from across the sea - ie white flesh / salt. Radagon is descendent from Fire Giants - ie red flesh / sulfur (or was it phosphor?).
Now the question is just how does that relate to tree fertiliser and using corpses as mortar. What was the actual goal of the building the tower?
Your Elden Ring analyses have been absolutely peak. Hyped for this one.
I have a theory concerning the timeline of the fingers and the Elden Beast. I think Metyr arrived long, LONG before the Elden Beast, and that the Elden Beast in fact arrived to CONFIRM Marika's rise to power. Metyr's lore states that she doesn't like to bow. This implies that the Elden Beast and its infusion with Marika as the Elden Ring was a rejection of Metyr's stewardship. Maybe the hornsent, the jars, and the Crucible were NOT what the Greater Will had in mind in "ordering" the Lands Between after many eons of Metyr's stewardship. Only the true God creates demigods and saints. So the Greater Will sends one last message: "You're being replaced. Obey the new order." This could have been long, long before Marika, in fact. Metyr could've been in the dark from time immemorial by the time Marika arrives.
The Erdtree is the manifestation of the new Golden Order. Metyr seethes and malds so much that Marika veils Miyr away with all the other hornsent lands and finger ruins. Maybe the Two Fingers left over in the Lands Between are simply vassals of Marika willing to obey her in the absence of Metyr. This would explain why they guide the Tarnished; they are obeying Marika. This has vast implications for Marika's rebellion against the Beast and the Greater Will: Ultimately, Marika's declaration that a Tarnished should become Elden Lord didn't match with the Erdtree/Elden Beast sealing off the tree, so the Two Fingers locked up in their confusion. She didn't give them the full picture. They thought Marika and the Beast had a purpose behind the Shattering, and were not let in on the scheme. Because duh, Marika rebelled against the Beast and the Ring, so she was imprisoned. The heads of the Golden Order were fighting each other and the Fingers had no way to process it.
The biggest flaw in my theory, though, is who and what are the Two Fingers communicating through? Are they truly making things up independently, or trying to contact Metyr to receive HER made-up wisdom? Hard to tell. Also I can't really explain why the Fingers knew Marika was imprisoned after shattering the Ring and thought this was perfectly okay. Hmm maybe this theory sucks.
Na bro keep going the hivemind will figure it out eventually
Nah I think this theory is really good. The only thing that I think differently about is the greater will. I don’t think it’s sentient. I think the greater will is just a representation of the endless black abyss of space, and when aliens and meteors and other shit started crashing down from it people thought that it was sending them messages, and the aliens like the fingers and shit just rolled with it to exert power over the tiny little humanoids.
Another issue is Gideon the all knowing learning from Marika that we are not meant to succeed. The tarnished are meant to struggle for eternity.
None of us are meant to be Elden lord.
The elden ring existed before marika since you can see a primal elden ring in farum azula, meaning the elden beast was sent by the greater will to moniter the current order, whether that is marika's order, or prior like placidusax
@@helwrecht1637 that could be radagons will and not marikas
That was a very well made video about Marika but the cherry on top was the "to be continued" at the end with Radagons boss theme playing in the outro xD
I'm still under the belief that marika didn't help with the night of black knives. It makes so little sense for her to do it.
Not only does it make little sense, if she were really in league with Ranni, the bigger issue would become Ranni herself - Marika has no need for her in the plot, and to include her just makes everything harder and less certain.
Marika may have some motivation in killing Godwyn, sure. Unlikely, but sure. She has no need for Ranni to destroy her body as part of that. Ranni’s simultaneous suicide was to shatter a great rune, but Marika can do that at will.
indeed... i imagine that Miquella could have bewitch the black knives or someone used bewitching branch of sorts.
Marika's whole problem with the Golden Order was that it was based on the two fingers, who were essentially lying the whole time that they were in communication with the Greater Will. She didn't discover this until it was too late.
Looking at Ranni's plan, the entire thing centers around severing her connection with the two fingers, then killing Marika and becoming the new God. Both of these things would align with Marika's goals of destroying the golden order built on the lies of the two fingers and killing herself.
@themightymcb7310 but it doesn't make sense that'd she'd kill her son to do it considering her motivation of removing the rune of death was to protect the people she loved. Sure, she hates the finger, but that isn't sufficient motivation for murdering her own kid.
@@katanadragon she literally threatens to sacrifice her kids, she directly says those words to them.
I believe Marika became disillusioned with the Golden Order once she saw how all of her children, save for Godwyn turned out. All cursed. All reminders of her past and her misdeeds. And what really has to sting? All of Radagon's children were perfectly fine, other than having the "cursed" fiery red hair of the giants. Hell, everyone just about agreed that Radahn was the Chaddest Chad that ever Chadded besides Godwyn. Seeing this had to have caused Marika to want to rather die than give birth to more cursed children that would be oppressed and hated by a hypocritical Order she helped create.(Also Godwyn could have also been born a mutant fish man as we never see his lower half fully outside of his corpse, leading me to believe ALL of the kids that popped out of Marika were cursed.)
I wonder if Marika helped Ranni because she thought they were conspiring to kill HER. But Ranni had her own plans. Without another option left, she was forced to shatter the ER directly, and summon back the Tarnished.
I'm of the same mind here. Ranni has beef with Marika if only because Marika is the reason why Rennala became a ruined broken woman. So for her to seek vengeance on her makes sense.
Marika just didn't expect Ranni to target her son.
You have such a cool interesting voice. It is so expressive despite how monotone it is, kind of incredible.
I love your interpretation. You get the story far better than anybody else I've seen. Besides the point that this can drive the character motivation for Marika to help out Ranni with her plan. I don't know how anyone else could have robbed Maliketh without dying first, and that make sense why Maliketh said what he said in his dialogue. Only Marika could have pulled out something like that. Perhaps she disguised as the cold witch to help Ranni, so not even Ranni thought she was dealing with Marika the whole time, and make sense with Radagon being married with Rennala at that moment in time. Also Marika was the only person old enough to have seen that period.
I believe Radagon was also scheming against Marika. The dialogue at the temple with the Radagon statue proves this as a possibility. Marika knew so she came up with an elaborate scheme to kill Radagon by breaking the ring and using the tarnished as the ones to do the god killing. She gave Radagon and his future godhood a big middle finger. Trina loved Miquella, Marika hated Radagon for his red hair and other unknown reasons.
So melinas sealed eye and her connection to destined death is even more poetic when born as marikas daughter, as she is sent to guide the tarnished on a path of destined death.
to sum up, Marika was a wounded traumatized woman who was given incredibly power and a chance at revenge under the promise of creating something better so neither she, nor anyone she loved, would never be hurt ever again. Along the way she succumbed more and more to her pain and anger to the point the very family she wanted to protect became tools. And in the end she realised it was all lies, and she had become the same tyrant that one oppressed her people for nothing
Love your narrative style, definitely one of the best lore channels.
I’ve never clicked anything faster
fuckin fantastic video. quickly becomin one of if not my favorite lore person on youtube. love how marika, her story and her wishes/desires were contextualized. haven’t heard very many others explain it the way it was done here.
Realizing now that for a "God" Marika actually doesn't have that much power. It feels like a true god wouldn't have to wage war at all, it would just be immediate victory where she would solo the entire verse without any resistance. I understand there are other gods at play but it's interesting how she doesn't ever confront their equivalents of herself (leader of fire giants, for example). She sends her armies to do it for her. And how are the Carian's who aren't even gods competing with her in any way shape or form? She's really not very impressive for a god to be honest.
i think the word "God" in terms of what it means for marika has a lot to do with how the runes of the elden ring dictate reality. while not omnipotent, she is the vessel of the power behind all of the forces of nature in the lands between aka removing death and routing all life that she deems worthy through the erdtree. It also allows her to share somewhat superhuman powers with her followers as a reward for their deeds. Her existence essentially dictates the laws of the universe
Isn't that why lord souls have to usher in a God? How do we know she wasn't in the tree the whole time, manipulating everything via grace?
@@curtisfarley6558She is definitely the spirit/manifestation of the golden erdtree we see in game. The original erdtree bark is visible when we enter and kill radagon. It's mainly a metaphor for the soul but she was also a shaman and we were her statue literally in a tree in the shaman village in the DLC as if thats the last stage of a spirit transfer. Don't know the timeline on that one though as the erdtree has been burned a couple of times for how a monster she was I guess
@@Fmakegeo6 it's Canon now lol
@@curtisfarley6558 the game/her story can be interpreted in so many way that's the magic of Miyazaki. For example I also like the idea of her literally being a jar ,in the end from her jar torture by the hornsent, her shaman soul fused with other people, one of them was radagon, snakes, hornsent, all sorts of innocents or criminals, animals, etc and in the end we see that in some of her children(omen twins, etc) but also she's is sensitive too cursed, she being a shaman and all , and manifested in other children (mesmer, Melina, miquela etc)
I was genuinely looking forward to this videos, thx for the great content man, love ur vids
I think there is one big misinterpreration of meytr that I see in the comments.
Meytr was abandoned by the greater will. But that does not mean it abandoned the lands betweena and marika. Infact the elden beast is the greaterwills avatar and as such would mean that Marikas godhood made the greater will play favorites and divert all communications from meytr and her fingers to marika and the fingers that associate with her. It would explain as to why the finger ans the two finger in roundtable hold actually give sound advice on what to do.
Love this type of deep lore break down. Doesn’t just explain lore but the characters and their possible motivations
I think the sacrifices line is more about how she lived and survived she's stating it's a truth of the world that if you don't make something of yourself the world will make something out of you.
I started playing Elden Ring recently, in large part because of your video essays, and I find all the lore to be incredibly fascinating!
I’ve been looking forward to this video essay for a long while, and it just so happens today’s my birthday, so you just made my day with this upload!
Thank you Fat Brett!
I’ve been waiting!!! I’ve loved these videos ever since the RE4 deconstructions of villainy. There’s so much depth and work put into them
Edit: Since next video is about Radagon, I still subscribe to the crack pot theory that is the Fire Giant’s curse on Marika, hence why he has red hair that he despises. So the Fire Giant was cursed to guard the forge by Marika for eternity but Marika was cursed to be shattered
god the story and lore of this game is so goddamn good, and you do such a good job of explaining it and using evidence to support your points and claims. You make it seem so simple, but deconstructing the emotions and motivations of a character throughout their countless years of living is remarkable and I would not have picked up on any of this. I mean, seriously, who else would notice the changes in tonality of Marika throughout her different stages of Godhood and explain it so well? This is such a good video
I dont really see Radagon as a " he was the real villain all aloooong" kinda guy, he's just the perfect golden order paragon to a fault, like Gwyn in a sense, so he had to do something when he realized Marika was setting the golden order up to burn (and the world with it). Marika is the real villain, she just happened to have a very understandable motive and very human and flawed responses to the problems she faced after she became a god. (I wont take the W of her suicide atempt involving unmaking the shitty order she built away from her tho)
I've said this a few times on your videos but I just wanted to say thanks again, you manage to put into words what I thought was going on but could never articulate to others. Great work!
I'm not sure I agree with the ending part you mention about how Marika was trying to wrest control from her problematic other half, Radagon, and that Radagon represents the worst part of herself and That Marika becomes a slave to Radagon. It kind of feels a little bit out of left field for me to surmise that from all that you said prior. But I'm interested to see what you have to say in the follow-up video. I agree with a lot of what you say in the video up to that point I would say. Also, The way these dialogues with Melina and how you present them is quite brilliant! It absolutely shows Marika's character arc very vividly.
There is a definite sense of tragedy with her story, heavily exemplified by the state she is in when we finally meet her at the end of the game. She starts filled with hatred when she persecutes and destroys all who had done her wrong (the Hornsent), and achieves this through betrayal and through the guise of ushering in a new age of abundance. Then she gets more pessimistic, and perhaps gives up trying to make the world a better place, choosing authoritarianism. Perhaps then she realizes the error of her ways and plots the shattering to attempt to allow the world another chance for a new age. she realized the Elden ring and order she created were fundamentally flawed. When she finally sees all the harm she has caused with it all, she chooses to try to start something anew, something not of her choosing but of the Tarnished's choosing. It's very pointed in her dialogue from Melina about how/why she chooses to banish the Tarnished; in that she wants them to struggle and become strong.
We learn in the DLC that Marika has been essentially led by the fundamentally flawed and misguided Scion of the Greater Will, Metyr. and Thus the Two fingers that guided Marika's rule for the majority of her rule over the lands between were the whole time misguided. Ymir says this very directly. And that the whole time, 'the roots (of the age of the Erdtree/Golden order) were rotten'. In this context it seems to fit quite well with Marika's tragic story; Marika was well intentioned, but misguided and ultimately very fallible as a ruler. Just like many of the mythologies that Elden Ring draws from; the gods are fundamentally imperfect and flawed beings. Ultimately she sees the false worldview that her age is based on, and chooses to end it and allow a new ruler.
@@Jdogspeps Well intentioned, but still a little asshole during that phase. Defeated the Fell God, she cursed the last giant calling him "Oh, little giant..."
Like, what a ego sister.
Well done, as always. I thoroughly enjoyed this deep dive into Marika. Thank you!
Another parallel between Roderika and Marika's past-i could be wrong but there are some things that make me think that shaman/numen women, possibly gifted ones in particular, would be used as the "base" for the grafted jar beings in the DLC. It seems like the "brain" of it is a shaman woman with some inverse of a rune arc on their forehead. The grafted beings that Godrick makes are VERY similar to the jar abominations i concept, just without the jar. Roderika was meant to be the "head" of a chrysalid because of her spirit tuning gift, she would be like the glue to the being i think
Knocked it out of the park, thank you for your hard work, makes my drives home worth it
Marika is one of those characters, who while not having a big physical presence on screen in person, still has an indelible effect upon the Lands Between and the Land of Shadow: the echoes of her words linger in the old churches, her demigod children have built their own power bases across the lands, her influence and her deeds and actions can be seen everywhere. Maybe more so in the Land of Shadow's Shaman Village: leaving behind a Minor Erdtree and her own Golden Braid - even though there was nobody left to save - was like a promise to herself she would build a better world for others.
But the fact she went on to found an Order that persecuted anything remotely different from their own tenets goes to show it's all a cycle of death and violence and persecution, no matter who is in charge. It's a theme we've seen time and again in Fromsoft's back catalogue.
And the whole 'Godhood is a cage' thing proves that no matter how powerful these 'Gods' were, they were ultimately just tools of another more powerful God. If Miquella had been successful in his plans, chances are the Outer Gods would have come to influence him sooner or later.
Nice job with this video Brett, it's a banger. Looking forward to Radagon's deconstruction
The whole Ranni thing seems so off. I thought the "close ties to Marika" line was a mistranslation, and that Godwyn's death was one of Marika's motivations for doubting the holism of her order. Most of these "Marika had a super convoluted plan" theories seem to break down at the seams, I think it's better seen as the puzzle.pieces being placed on their own, with most characters not even being aware of it, they're simply enacting their wills, and in doing so, they are unconsciously guided by the underlying forces of the universe, such as karmic Causality and Regression towards the mean
@@Lazarus_Cardinalis Yep, and let me tell you this about Godwyn's death. If Marika had wanted to kill Godwyn, or release the Rune of Death: "Maliketh, dear, come here a moment please."
@@themaniae4803 exactly, Maliketh is the most loyal puppy ever, he'd do it in an instant
I personally like the idea that Ranni conspired with the Black Knives (and whoever employed them) to kill a demigod. She does or doesn't know it's Godwyn specifically. But her thievery of one half of the rune of death is somethings she does for her own ends, and that's where everything goes off the rails. I accept that it's my own interpretation though, and I think more people would have fun with this story if they were willing to interpret some things so that it makes a more compelling story. I really like Ranni, but I don't really like the idea of her being the entire mastermind over everything in the Night of Black Knives, so she's not.
@Majoraspersona There's a pretty solid base of evidence that Ranni was just a conspirator in the plot overall. The Nox had their own agenda going into the plot, and it seems like they were not aware of Ranni's plan at the time considering her later interactions with the Black Knives, and the Nox as a whole.
@@aydenbonnet9630 Let's think back to the Plot of the Night for a moment. Kill Godwyn, the possible only children loved by Marika, prince of the Golden Order and one of the beings most loved by all. Motivations Behind this Plot. For the Assassins? Revenge and hatred for being Scion of the Eternal Cities, people who didn't appreciate Marika and Golden Order very much. For Ranni? She needed Godwyn's death to kill her own body and escape the control of her Two Fingers.
Now, without Ranni the assassins would not have been able to do anything. Ranni stole the Rune, Ranni infused the Rune's power into the knives, and Ranni instructed them to kill Godwyn in that exact way. Furthermore, Rogier calls Ranni the person who Orchestrated the Night.
Obviously this isn't definitive proof as NPCs aren't omniscient, but there's another point to that. What we see next is the Assassins killing Iji and attempting to attack Ranni's tower, defended by Blaidd. Now, why would the assassins who worked with Ranni try to kill her and kill her servants?
Think about it. Ranni took these women, she made them kill the second most sacred being after Marika, making the entire Lands Between hate them, and Ranni then helped them? Nope, we find them hidden in catacombs and caves or in Ordina, a super hidden and forbidden place. Hunted, killed, desperate, while Ranni was all happy having done what she had to do. I can understand why they're pissed at her.
Alternatively, the Nox wanted to have their Elden Lord anyway, and Ranni wanted to take the Elden Ring away, so it was also a conflict of interest.
The "Misery" chapter of the video is so damn good for one reason: it brings to attention the one part of Elden Ring that was always chalked up to "because it's a video game". Back then in the base game, anyone who was hooked by the plot at some point must have thought "why are we still blessed and guided by grace after burning the Erdtree?". And now your interpretation gives an answer! Because grace is not the Greater Will; Metyr proves that's impossible. It is not the Elden Beast; the fact we fight it proves it's impossible. True grace cannot exist because the God who bestows it left before we even pressed new game. True order never existed because order as we know it is just what various people say it is. The only versions we know of order and grace are tainted with interpretation. Radagon's fundamentalism, Goldmask's idealism, you get the gist. We now NOTHING of what the Greater Will is, only what people expect it to be. But we know that it's there. However distant or uncaring, it is there. All the times we thought it was the Greater Will's grace guiding us. How we gaslighted ourselves into thinking that for the sake of being an enjoyable video game we could keep our save system even after committing a lore- wise cardinal sin; it wasn't just a necessary suspension of disbelief, it was deepest lore. It was grace, yes, but Marika's grace without order
I dont believe that Marika was involved with the Black Knives plot, rather that Rogier was connecting that the Black Knife assassins were Numen like Marika is, the implication that she had close ties is erased with the implication of the DLC, which establishes she was the last of her specific sect of Numen, in fact i believe it was Godwyn's Murder and the curse that followed that made her commit the shattering, after everything shed done, eveerything she'd built and bled and suffered for, her children, all but him, were in some way cursed or damaged. Messmer, Malania and Miquella were afflicted. Morgott and Mohg were Omen born, bearing the visages of the very people who had hunted and eradicated her people. Ranni, Rykard and Radahn were really Radagon's children, and Melina had betrayed her, taking the name of the Gloam Eyed Queen and attempting to Usurp her. Godwyn's murder shattered her well before the Elden Ring felt the impact.
I love your Elden Ring videos because I think the narrative themes you explore and your character analysis is a way more entertaining and interesting way to understand the setting.
With the final Question being posed about which did Marika care about more?
My answer to it is…does it really matter? It’s quite possible that Marika could’ve cared about both of those things simultaneously. Or even none of those things.
Had she not attempted to destroy the Elden Ring, Radagon would’ve likely stolen control from her, and all the suffering that was caused by her reign would’ve persisted. The world would’ve probably been a different kind of hell entirely.
highly underrated video. Watching this everyday until the Radagon video drops.
Highly disagree with this take. Especially the theory that she participated in the Assassination of Godwyn. The reason she imprisoned her omen children is so profoundly simple, it is the same reason omen as a whole are discriminated against, misbegotten as well: they are reminiscient of the Hornsent. Which a reminder for everyone here, The Hornsent viewed what we call the aspects of the crucible as signs of Divinity and in pursuit of that divinity not only built the tower of babel essentially BUT also mistreated the Shaman people, of which marika was part of that group, torturing them and forcing them into jars with other creatures in pursuit of Sainthood. It is The Death of Godwyn that drove her to the Brink of despair and caused her to shatter the Elden Ring and finally, Messmer was abandoned AFTER Marika attempted to ''soothe'' his curse with A PERSONAL granting of an Eye of Her Grace but upon seeing the base serpent shorn of light she grew afraid of him. The reason she Killed the Fire Giants is simply because of their fell god and the flame they wield being a direct threat to her Erdtree.
I believe that the black knives who killed godwyn had killed him revenge for marika's crusade in the land of shadow. Items state the black knives had connections to marika, but never states if they were positive or negative connections. Maybe the black knives didn't want marika to become a god, or maybe they believed Marika was a threat to the entire world, since they've seen what shes capable of
@mush2282 shadow of the erdtree trailer talks about a 'seduction' and 'betrayal' to reach Godhood. I don't see how Marika could betray the hornsent. I think she betrays her own people, the shamans, and she 'bathes her home in gold even through none are left to see it'. I think the black knives are some shaman/numen that seek revenge for marikas betrayal.
I also super disagree if his interpretation of Radagon…
@@haydenthompson7790 It depends who is claiming betrayal. If we were to say hypothetically, that the Hornsent have rationalised their abuse against the Shamans as doing them some kind of favour turning them into 'Saints', then being 'turned on' by this Saint or God they have created could be seen as a betrayal.
@viktoriyaserebryakov2755 I guess that's possible. Does anything suggest that marika herself went into a jar and emerged a saint? She becomes a god at the gate of divinity, after which there appears to be no more shamans, but still enough hornsent to warrant messmers crusade. Also, all of marikas children being cursed seems to stem from her committing some horrible act, I think that fits well with her seducing and betraying her own people to reach godhood rather than the hornsent.
Yay, I've been hoping you'd do a video on Merika! And ooh, an individual video on Radagon? You're spoiling us
Love your videos dude❤
There's a lot of good content creators out there. There's a lot of great ER lore videos on the web. This is the best I've watched. Thank you.
Would really like to see you revisit the topic of the Golden Order/Greater Will after all the info we got from Metyr and Count Ymir.
This was so refreshing to see a in-depth character analysis. Understanding Marikas thoughts , and emotions at different points in time and what the writers are thinking without going into theory tangents while keeping focusing on bigger picture. Your video and work for reading comprehension and analysis shows thank you
There is one thing you sort of glossed over with the theme of duality. You covered the main ones (Morgott/Margit, Ranni/Renna) but almost every major boss has a repeat fight or a distinct foil and at that point you have to ignore all the jokes about asset reuse and acknowledge it as a direct theme. There are two Ancestor Spirits, Astels, and Mohgs. Godrick has that weird evergoal fight with a different name. Even the mimic tear has two fights. Placidusax and Bayle are paired in a draconic civil war. Miquella has his promised consort fight and St. Trinia guarded by the putrescent knight contrasting how far he has risen and how far she fell. Renalla is an interesting one with phase one being her reduced phase 1 and phase 2 being an illusion of Ranni's memory set to protect her and then also her sister Rellana showing you just how badass the Carian royal actually were (and how weak they are for redheads apparently...). Godfrey/Horah Loux is similar in that it conveys the theme directly in the phase transition of the fight but there is also the Godfrey ghost fight that I like to head canon as Morgott protecting himself with his beloved father's memory so no one figures out that he is the only person still keeping the lights on so to speak.
Fortisax is a weird one though. I think he's supposed to be paired with Lansseax as they both befriended Godwyn and but something something night of black knives, something something he's a dream within Godwyn or maybe Fia? IDK I haven't actually done that questline cuz fuck that one platforming puzzel.
Point is, Its twins all the way down.
I would do anything for a single season short show about marika's life
I think it be interesting to look at Godwyn. Since he is the oldest child and might have been born before any of Marika's sins (hence why he was unafflicted)
he seems like a "could've been the savior" kind of character. As he was unafflicted and didn't seem to care for violence, but unlike miquella garners compassion from others through natural means (like how he befriended fortissax and put an end to the war) rather than a form of mind control.
Incredible story writing.
It's magnificent.
Really unmatched.
Can't wait for the next video!
Thanks a lot.
Madness is the natural state of Marika's world and her concept of reality. By circumstance or circumvention - Madness is everywhere and she is absolutely not immune to its influence. In the deepest, darkest part of her Capital where she would establish her Order she banished her Madness but couldn't resolve it, or defeat it. It propagates as a manifest in things like the Eyes of Yellough--and while Shrabriri was gouged of his eyes for his slander--the typical crime for talking shit is to cut their tongue out - not their eyes. Madness has contaminated the soil, the water, the entire ecosystem as presented to us with the exploration of Midra and his Manse. The Altus plateau is presented to us, equally, in shades of red and yellow. Not Blood and Gold. The Merchant questline was cut because it was 'too obvious.' Force omission to create speculation and inspire the journey of exploration. Madness is depicted in Red and Yellow - the items of Hornsent we can wear reduce Focus to Zero; Focus controls our resistance to Madness.
I've always believed that Radagon was created by Marika using a mimic tear from the eternal cities. She poured her own essence into it, especially the part of her that's more hopeful/naive and idealistic. But then Radagon gradually grew into his own person with his own identity and worldview, except he is still linked to Marika and must answer her commands. By the point he happily married to Rennala and had several children, Marika figured it out and realized the danger of her own unhinged alter-ego gathering strength in Liurnia. As she just exiled Godfrey, a new Elden Lord is needed, and what's a better husband than her other self right? So she forcefully called him back, resulting in Radagon's hatred for her. I fully support the comment by @devidrachan on what happened next.
I like that it's open to interpretation if Marika really abandoned Messmer at all. Like, we know that Messmer's crusade happened pretty late in the timeline, at most after the Liurnian Wars or even after them, maybe even in Radagon's age. Did she really use her child and then seal him away with no intention of returning for him? Or did she send Messmer away, after which Night of Black Knives happened, Marika shattered the Ring and was imprisoned in the Erdtree until our Tarnished arrived there at the end of the game?
The timeline is so confusing. How did marika achieve all that without being a god yet, when was radagon a part of her. Messmer and the army are already part of the golden order, Melina, miquella etc. are already born and yet she didn't become a god yet
I thought the general consensus was Messmer was the first child and his crusade took place before or at the same time as the fire giants.
I keep thinking this too! Just because he’s the first child doesn’t mean his crusade occurred early.
@@HonkieWithaBoomstick it couldn't take place before the war with the fire giants. Messmer and his commander, Gaius, were to Radahn as older brothers, and Radahn was only born after the Liurnian Wars.
@@saintxerxes3465 she became god before the war with the fire giants; that's clear enough. Miquella and Malenia were born after the start of Radagon's age; Messmer was born presumably either in the times of Godfrey's age or before that.
The timeline is confusing, yes, but not that confusing in this regard.
Marika has real "its not a war crime if they arent people" energy
Your videos rock, Fattbrett. I find myself wondering what other characters you might one day talk about. I'd love to hear your take on the Pale King from Hollow Knight in particular. That guy is ripe for interpretation.
Whatever you do, though, I'll be happy to watch!
I think the main difference between Gwyn and Marika is that while both did horrible things, Gwyn seems to made them with the intent to benefit his people (Lords/Giants) as a whole rather than just himself and his family. On the other hand, all of Marika’s actions seem to be made with the goal of benefiting herself and all their positive impacts upon the world was a consequence rather than the intent.
And Gywn gained power without disrupting the natural order of the world when he ascend to lordship It was to be the age of fire and he became the king/god when it was needed. He didn't usurp anyone (expect the dragons).
Marika, on the other hand, betrayed and backstabbed EVERYONE, during her ascension and also many who helped her after having become a god queen. Frankly, I think she got off easily, she had the gall to enact punishment upon herself, running away from just punishment to be enacted from her victims.
She wanted to die? The one who wanted and betrayed everything and everyone in order to be "the eternal"? Does she think she gets that right, when all those she killed and suffered at her hands only wanted TO LIVE but were denied their right. In my view, it's an insult that they don't allow us to enact sentence directly upon this criminal. She doesn't get the right to rest, were it up to me she would get an ironic sentence, eternal life.
@@redheadsilver8041 Except Gwyn linking the flame with his own soul literally destroyed the natural order of the universe, and unleashed the darksign curse on normal people
@@bb-sw6ur I thought the darksigils are responsible for hollowing. Given that the darksign doesn't turn you hollow when using it as an item.
@@bluebird2217 Sigil, signz whatever. The point is that doesnt start happening until Gwyn links the flame and then it starts dying again. Humans have dark souls and Gwyn wants to feed dark souls to the first flame to keep it going, so the hollowing curse compels humans to pursue the first flame and link it. So Gwyn essentially conscripts humanity to keep his age going long after he is dead.
@redheadsilver8041 ah but you can punish her. Give her the mending rune of duskborn so she can live forever more as a husk
What an incredible character she is.. And your video is outstanding as well!
Marika is the embodiment of the divine female. While Radagon is the embodiment of the divine male.
Chaos and order. Marika craves change. Radagon craves perseveration.
Phenomenal video. You got a fan for life
Maybe Marika couldn’t even reach maliketh, since he’s in farum azula which may have been locked in time somehow to seal away the rune at one point. Maybe the tree is what was holding farum azula in another time & she needed someone to burn it & go get the rune
Suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness. you might “stop” the suffering, but you curse those who love and care for you. Marika’s suicide meant the end of the world. Y’know that saying “oh cmon it’s not the end of the world.” It was for her. A suicidal god. Terrifying
alright I'm gonna pitch in my two-cents about the jar saints and why the hornsent were interested in using the shamans and what for.
This is sort of predicated on the idea that the hornsent are correct that the shamans do meld with the flesh of others easily. I assume that this would be observable and that this feature is absolutely crucial for the purpose to which these jar saints are intended. The Divine Tower has many petrified bodies used in it's construction, melded together. If you peak into some of the jars with broken seals in the cold Gaols of the Shadow Realm, the bodies take on a consistency and color closer to that of the mortar used in the Divine Tower. The purpose of the jar saints, and by extension the hornsent, is the construction of a tower leading to divinity using the victims of the Hornsent's power as building material. The Jar Saints act as a binding agent to turn mundane bodies into the building blocks of godhood. Godhood the Hornsent intended to claim at the cost of the shamans and their own criminals. Marika likely did gain some sort of importance within the Towerfolk society as a result of becoming a jar saint, as I can see no other path for her to be able to betray them and claim their ill-gotten divinity for herself.
Amazing video. Love the deep dive into marika’s character, she’s one of my favorite characters of Elden ring as a whole. Looking forward to the radagon vid. Subbed
Honestly I have no sympathy for Marika she did everything to herself and when she figured she did it all for nothing that is her only moment of realization that she was a monster an will always be a monster
More of a self-report about your lack of emotional intelligence ngl
Wow, finally the explanation of Elden Ring I’ve been looking for! Great vid
So what you're saying is that Ranni's ending is the 'most canon' one? Since Marika will finally be free and if we become Marika's lord we just prolong her suffering
I was wondering the same thing
Great vid as always. Glad you’re back!
I have to do a long comment about this video, but for now i'll just put out a reply to the last part; Radagon is not the villain, or a fanatic or worst part of Marika.
Let's start from the... well, the start: What we know about Radagon? He's Marika, another version of Marika, part of Marika, they are the same being with two different minds and a lot of contrasts between them.
But, what we know about him? We know he's curious, he wants to study everything, Incantations and Sorceries. (And this looks like pretty against Golden Order faith base). Not only, he united and Integrated Liurnia in the Order with Diplomacy, not War (He was sent to war but the results are better than Giants)
We also know he had a very good relationship with his wife and his family. Radanh uses Red for Redmane to quote his Dad, he and Miquella gifted eachother spells and, japanese translation, he forged his Blade to remember the same form of the Moonlight, the blade he gave to Rennala. If you forge your personal weapon to remind the blade that rappresent your marriage, means you care about it.
About fundamentalism, Radagon a lot of times is related to it. Spells about him and Miquella, the pose that Goldmask do, his passion for Int and Faith both.(Fundamentalism spells uses both Int and Faith.)
But, attention. Now we are talking about old fundamentalism, the one about Ring's light and Laws, the one that is said in game being a Accademic study in all but in the name. Actual fundamentalism are a bunch of fanatics like D. This means Radagon during his age was all but not a fanatic.
He's still loyal to the Order? Yes, but loyalty does not mean fanatism. You protect your country even if you know all the flaws of it. Also, Shatter the Elden Ring is not just Order Gone, it ruins ALL REALITY. Think it, what happens when we use Frenzied Flame? Everyone dies and no more respawn. To put it in our own way, think is someone decide to shatter the laws of physic and life and death. Ragadon tried to save the World, or st least himself and the World as a consequence.
He blocks our way for the Elden Ring, and yeah, this is egoistic, but think a moment, he always was the n.2, the lesser version of a perfect being, an incomplete (his need to be complete) being, now little more of a corpse uses as a puppet by Elden Beast, he wants to defend himself. Also, in 1.0 a map say he warned people about the return of Tarnished, so maybe he knew about Marika's plan for them. Also we killed 3 of his children so... i think he's a bit piss off.
Radagon changed renalas moonsword into golden order sword and left it to nameless red lion guy... he is odin afterall bc he just wanted carian sorcery to make golden order more perfect. he is just odin who is crazy to every knowledge.
@@플스선민주의 About the sword, is mistranslated. Japanese says he forged the sword to have the same form, not he re-forged the Moonlight. He wants knowledge, yes, but he loved his family. For the lion, except some possible cut-content about Lions-Radagon, the answer probably is: Miquella took things from Leyndell during the Shattering, put them in the carriages we see on the road for the Haligtree(In two of them we find St.Trina Torch and the sword of Malenia's master) and the Lion attack one of them and stealed the sword.
Y'know, with the mention of the betrayal that Marika did to the Hornsent and the possibility that she was the first true saint to emerge from the jar, it's possible that the Hornsent wish for her to become their god and let her pass through the Gate of Divinity to ascend.
But then she betrayed them, or at the very least, they viewed it as a betrayal, because they thought she'd be grateful and forgive them for their transgressions against her people because now she was all-powerful. That she'd let bygones be bygones, and maybe it seemed like that for a time. But then the Omen began to get persecuted, and the Golden Order grew monstrous in power, and soon, her son Messmer was marching to their doorstep to purge their entire race.
They thought she'd never try to harm them despite the vile crimes they committed against the Shamans because they viewed turning her into a God as the culmination of their work, and that she'd be thankful for it. They might have genuinely thought they did good by her. But she instead saw their violence against her people and turned it against them.
A Consideration on Mohg and Morgott, her children by Godfrey-
They are not cursed; they are blessed by something she hates. Recall that the Hornsent, who are responsible for much of her suffering, idolized the Crucible- a force of vibrant life, and evolution. They viewed Horns as a sign of divinity, a blessing- and indeed, Omen are supernaturally strong and enduring, at the least.
Is it not possible then that neither Mohg nor Morgotts stares were truly curses, save that Marika, in her trauma, saw them as such?
It could well be argued their nature as Omens was an endorsement of her and Godfrey's right to rule and Divinity, by some.