11:04 Classic protoss "I just have to attack" moment. Remember that game from one week ago, Flash vs Rich ? Also on Apocalypse (called "Flash's macro is coming together") shows how the protoss just has to be patient and simply take all the map for itself.
@@inguh7041 Yup, one was empty but another had 2 reavers lol. If he saves the shuttle with reavers the game could've at least been played out a bit longer. Just too devastating of a loss to be losing that while doing minimal damage though.
Honestly, I think @ArtosisCasts should do it. Not only a good way to keep the game and community alive, but also a nice side gig :) in terms of income and intellectual stimulus.
The problem from stealing gas is forces terran to make marines. So I think it can be mixed with 2 proxy gates. As Artosis screams gives protoss at 50% win out of the start
A general rule is that upgrades are more important early game on maps with less expansions. On larger maps with more resources it's more important to grow your overall supply and tech before focusing heavily into upgrades.
@@sneediummineryeah it's good but having an extra tank and factory is more important early game. Upgrades won't matter if you are contained and the other player has map control.
Flash definitely could've taken his own gas if he wanted to -- which implies he think he didnt need to or he wants to explore how the game plays out if he lets the gas steal happen
2:29 I was curious about this statement, so I did some math. If you sent n SCVs to attack, you would lose about [750 HP / (8 dps * n SCV)] * (n SCV * 1 mineral/second ) ~ 100 minerals during attack time. So indeed minerals lost *during attack* doesn't depend on n. So the Protoss player spends 100 early to force Terran to lose *at least* 100 minerals later. But if each SCV takes 4 seconds to walk to/from the gas, then you lose an additional 4n^2 minerals from walking time. OTOH, the time it takes for the gas to die is 2 + 93/n seconds, so do you want to lose 400 minerals and have gas delayed by 11 seconds, or lose 100 minerals and have gas delayed by 20 seconds? Adding a marine makes the math interesting. It costs 15 seconds and 50 minerals to build and contributes 10 dps, i.e. ~1.2 SCVs worth of damage. So assuming you attack with 1 SCV, your 1st marine buys you 93 - (15 + (750 - 120)/(18 dps)) = 43 seconds, your 2nd marine buys you (15 + (750 - 120)/(18 dps)) - (30 + (750 - 120 - 270)/(28 dps)) = 8 seconds. If you attack with 0 SCVs, the 1st marine is essential of course, and the 2nd marine buys you (15 + 750 / 10dps) - (30 + 600 / 20dps) = 30 seconds, and the 3rd marine buys you (30 + 600 / 20dps) - (45 + 300 / 30 dps) = 5 seconds. So in conclusion, your 1st marine is very valuable, and your 3rd one is probably not.
So flash starts teh cc at 3:11. He destroy the main's assimilator at 3:53 and starts the refinery immediately. He started attacking it at 3:15. I wonder whether it would be better to just makes the refinery at the nat and slowly kill the assimilator with a marine and take your main's refinery as your second gas? That would save the CSV time that had to attack the assimilator? A command center is 75 second to build so he would have the nat CC at 4:26. The refinery is 25 seconds to build, so he'll get it at 4:18. he lost 40 seconds of mining of 3 SCV and got 8 seconds of gas for it. That seems steep provided the nat cc was already under way. He started the nat gas at 4:19. so that seems comparable to when he would have gotten the main assimilator ikilled by putting a marine on it. Am I missing somethign?
yes you are missing hte simple problem that with gas steal ur factory is already late so if they pressure goon you wont have siege alraedy and have to take shots with an unsieged tank if you delay it further by another 30-50 seconds u'll have 8 goons hitting your bunker with no way to defend yourself
@@alpacaherder5680 I understand that; but it would not be delayed 30 seconds; it would be delayed 8 here. Now obviously it took me 5 minutes to check teh replay to be exact. And Flash has to make a decision in the blink of an eye. But provided he already has the natural CC on the way, I would think that waiting for the gas at the nat makes sense. You could build it now and long distance mine it for one round trip probably. Now if the nat cc was not already started, then definitely you should kill the assimilator.
Don't be disappointed about Wraith Defense RT, that was never a consideration to the open Flash would choose this game. Now that he's properly seeded the meta with EFFECTIVE opens, that require DIVERGENT RESPONSES, he's kicking the tires on the first opens he was using against Bisu again, to breathe life into the third standard variant of TvP, Upgrade Terran. Wraith Opens, perhaps even MULTI-WRAITH opens, will come around, in response to mass shuttle-reaver nukes that are incoming. Snow has revealed the horror in PvP, it shouldn't be long before someone looks at PvT application. I've been thinking about unit posturing as a whole. As brilliant as Flash's pushouts are, you can see that his success usually starts from extraordinarily clean defenses, and then counter attacking. He gets rolled when people counter time out his move out, checking out the Emperor's Anti-Drop Defense, or are able to take the other mains safely due to spawn positions. What I'm getting at is the type of base defense used, allows the type of posturing you can do with your army. ie. Aggressive turret placement supports aggressive Army positioning and base scans. Mines can be used flexibly to match Army disposition. Defensive Mines support aggressive vulture rotations, but conservative scan use until turrets available Cheating Static Base Defense (Flash-Style) mandates defensive army positioning throughout base. What's especially important is that the way the units are USED differ depending on what you CHOOSE to defend with and what you're ABLE to defend with. That's all. "that's so obvious" is it? I was getting hounded about getting starport to use a wraith to defend, instead of racing into gol tech even faster. so I would say as obvious as something is, the takeaway is not uniform at all. I see players treating 1 wraith as a replacement for 4 goliaths. at that number and timing, 1 wraith is like a pair of emergency tire chains, until you can setup your 4WD with snow tires. Just think about it, lol.
Question for Artosis. Now that we’ve seen this type of game, so IF P did a shuttle dive like that and didn’t do damage, P loses on the spot. In a sense, it’s P gambling. The question is, did P here know that he’s gambling/all in? If so, what’s the better strategy?
I feel like Paralyze should not have engaged until legs kicked in. Anyway pleeease cast more Snow vs Flash! They played a bo5 recently (not the bo6 where Flash 6-0'd Snow)
Since the experts are here: is the Remastered Version of Starcraft worth it? Tried the "free" one, which did not feel good without Full HD and without being able to change Keybindings.
would appreciate if you could work on the observing skills a bit more. randomly mouse spamming and jumping around to focus on apparently nothing are some areas that could be improved on. thanks for the flash games :)
There is a reason Terran is by far the most successful race in tournaments. Add flash to that equation and the game starts to look really imba. Protoss has to do work with its specialized units ( reaver, Templar) because its standard units cost too much for their stats/supply. GG, hoping to see flash in asl
Spoilers Pros love being pansies with these premature ggs. Scrap it out, grow bollocks. 4 base, down only 20 supply, plenty of opportunities to win or get solid practice holding for as long as possible on the backfoot to drain opponents mental stamina.
We need to start getting 2 matches a day unless 1 of the matches is 20min+. This rate of catchup is just too slow... I'm gonna end up watching the casts from other TH-camrs at this point..
you know. the real problem here is that only Flash really knows how to macro. A good terran should have as much vultures as zealots (75g vs 100g), and as much tanks as dragoons (150g vs 125g), and equalise the supply. lots of terran are sooo bad at macro they are always 20-40 supply behind as if its normal. i assure you its not.
Neither vultures nor zealots require any G Factories, plus addons, are more expensive than gateways and probes mine faster than SCVs, and Protoss expansions are easier to take
Terran's just not capable of producing like that. As ublade said, factories with add-ons are more expensive than gateways. I don't know the exact build times either but I think tanks take a bit longer than goons. Also take into account that protoss has a faster expansion rate, they're usually at least 0.5 to 1 expansions ahead of terran. If terran as a race was capable of matching goon production with their tank production they would roll protoss every time. Tanks are much more powerful than goons. That's why it takes forever to max out with mech, otherwise it would be op
How to tell us you don't play broodwar without telling us. Factories cost 250/100 with add-on. Gateways cost 150. Seige Tank + Vulture costs 225/100, Dragoon + Zealot cost 225/50, Terran units literally cost 50 more gas for the same supply and their buildings are significantly more expensive. This is ignoring the fact you need Seige, Vulture Speed, and Vulture Mines (And in this game Goliath Range), while the protoss can take a 3rd base just off Dragoon Range Any Protoss with less Supply than a Terran in the early game isn't playing the fucking game correctly, their units and buildings and upgrades are SIGNIFICANTLY LESS EXPENSIVE
All your clicking everywhere on the map makes me dizzy.... Are you going for a world record on APM when you cast? At least you are not zooming in and out like use to do on your erlier casts.
![1 Orc vs 7 Computers [4K]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7BWNchvzG1Y/mqdefault.jpg)
"This looks like a game that should probably go pretty late."
Game ends minutes later.
Artosis predictions are usually very reliable - as he predicts the opposite of what will happen.
Tasteless is more infamous for these calls, but Arty with the classic fail is lol
Well he couldn't predict Paralyze would have that huge fuck up with the shuttles.
You would think he wouldn't be able to caster curse people _in the past_ , but such is the power of Artosis.
Lmao
That mass shuttle drop was the perfect illustration for the saying "If you shoot for the king, you better not miss".
A certain someone in America learned that lesson in July.. not literally, but, you know.
I'm getting chills watching this on a day off.
Quality entertainment (y)
You might think about getting some more sleep, or making some soup to help with those chills.
@@nanthilrodriguez 😂
I can’t spoil here, something’s in the way….
It’s a floating Engineering Bay
It's a floating Barracks
It’s a DT
This spoiler blocker is goated
The spoiler didn't make! What's wrong with you commenter!
hot flashes + cool chills = tosis syndrome
Flash: "I can't move out with that Reaver shuttle out there..."
Protoss: "Here, have my Reavers."
Flash: "Thanks. I win."
IT’S SUMMER AND 98 DEGREES OUTSIDE BUT I AM HERE GETTING CHILLS 🥶🥶🥶🥶🥶🥶🥶
flash makes it look so easy
Flash with a vanilla AI move here with keeping all his units in the main before moving out, lol.
11:04 Classic protoss "I just have to attack" moment. Remember that game from one week ago, Flash vs Rich ? Also on Apocalypse (called "Flash's macro is coming together") shows how the protoss just has to be patient and simply take all the map for itself.
You should show us how it’s done
I'm more curious about W-L ratio on this map for Zerg, Terran, and Protoss. It seems like some strats could work better than others.
I'm sitting under the air conditioning and I'm getting CHILLS
Arty, I love when you are calm, casting SC and showing of your knowledge of what happened in the game.
Oh man...that was brutal. Once Flash started to advance, he was like a steam roller.
Watching artosis vids is actually the highlight of my day 😭
Who knew that single turret at the natural would pay off as much as it did.
ya, it killed 2 shuttles, right?
@@inguh7041 Yup, one was empty but another had 2 reavers lol. If he saves the shuttle with reavers the game could've at least been played out a bit longer. Just too devastating of a loss to be losing that while doing minimal damage though.
>Flash got his gas stolen
*My continent just got teleported to Antarctica*
BRUH 💀
It's cool to hear you mention builds that used to be popular. If you ever wrote a History of the Brood War Meta book or something, I'd read it.
he's like a living encyclopedia
Honestly, I think @ArtosisCasts should do it. Not only a good way to keep the game and community alive, but also a nice side gig :) in terms of income and intellectual stimulus.
The problem from stealing gas is forces terran to make marines. So I think it can be mixed with 2 proxy gates. As Artosis screams gives protoss at 50% win out of the start
Here faster than Boxer SCV rushing me
A general rule is that upgrades are more important early game on maps with less expansions. On larger maps with more resources it's more important to grow your overall supply and tech before focusing heavily into upgrades.
terran vehicle attack is super strong in any situation
getting that +5 to the splash attack per level is insane
@@sneediummineryeah it's good but having an extra tank and factory is more important early game. Upgrades won't matter if you are contained and the other player has map control.
I'm getting chills reading the comments
GOOD MORNING ARTOSIS I LOVE YOU
this daily Flash VODs get me addicted xD
Not going to bed until i get my TOSIS fix
Arty, weird request. Is it possible to get between 10 and 12 Flash games a day? Thanks! -A Passionate Fan
Flash would have... oh he did.
Flash only needs one turret lol.
"Paralyze, if you watch this channel regularly, you'll know who im talking about".
- me whose watched from the beginning, "uhh.. who?"
Flash definitely could've taken his own gas if he wanted to -- which implies he think he didnt need to or he wants to explore how the game plays out if he lets the gas steal happen
Thinking of Goliaths as mobile missile turrets. Too good
"This looks like a game that is going to go very late."
Uh... huh...
I've been Paralyzed with chills.
Perfect turret placement.
Whenever Artosis say's 'this looks like it's going to turn into a long one' I know it will be over within the next couple minutes lol
Fourth channel required: ArtosisFlashCasts.
2:29 I was curious about this statement, so I did some math.
If you sent n SCVs to attack, you would lose about [750 HP / (8 dps * n SCV)] * (n SCV * 1 mineral/second ) ~ 100 minerals during attack time. So indeed minerals lost *during attack* doesn't depend on n. So the Protoss player spends 100 early to force Terran to lose *at least* 100 minerals later.
But if each SCV takes 4 seconds to walk to/from the gas, then you lose an additional 4n^2 minerals from walking time. OTOH, the time it takes for the gas to die is 2 + 93/n seconds, so do you want to lose 400 minerals and have gas delayed by 11 seconds, or lose 100 minerals and have gas delayed by 20 seconds?
Adding a marine makes the math interesting. It costs 15 seconds and 50 minerals to build and contributes 10 dps, i.e. ~1.2 SCVs worth of damage. So assuming you attack with 1 SCV, your 1st marine buys you 93 - (15 + (750 - 120)/(18 dps)) = 43 seconds, your 2nd marine buys you (15 + (750 - 120)/(18 dps)) - (30 + (750 - 120 - 270)/(28 dps)) = 8 seconds. If you attack with 0 SCVs, the 1st marine is essential of course, and the 2nd marine buys you (15 + 750 / 10dps) - (30 + 600 / 20dps) = 30 seconds, and the 3rd marine buys you (30 + 600 / 20dps) - (45 + 300 / 30 dps) = 5 seconds.
So in conclusion, your 1st marine is very valuable, and your 3rd one is probably not.
Keep up the good work!
Oh I have been waiting for flashcast
So flash starts teh cc at 3:11.
He destroy the main's assimilator at 3:53 and starts the refinery immediately. He started attacking it at 3:15.
I wonder whether it would be better to just makes the refinery at the nat and slowly kill the assimilator with a marine and take your main's refinery as your second gas? That would save the CSV time that had to attack the assimilator?
A command center is 75 second to build so he would have the nat CC at 4:26.
The refinery is 25 seconds to build, so he'll get it at 4:18.
he lost 40 seconds of mining of 3 SCV and got 8 seconds of gas for it. That seems steep provided the nat cc was already under way.
He started the nat gas at 4:19. so that seems comparable to when he would have gotten the main assimilator ikilled by putting a marine on it.
Am I missing somethign?
interesting thought
no i had that exact thought after he threw down the nat cc that quick
yes you are missing hte simple problem that with gas steal ur factory is already late so if they pressure goon you wont have siege alraedy and have to take shots with an unsieged tank if you delay it further by another 30-50 seconds u'll have 8 goons hitting your bunker with no way to defend yourself
@@alpacaherder5680 I understand that; but it would not be delayed 30 seconds; it would be delayed 8 here.
Now obviously it took me 5 minutes to check teh replay to be exact. And Flash has to make a decision in the blink of an eye.
But provided he already has the natural CC on the way, I would think that waiting for the gas at the nat makes sense. You could build it now and long distance mine it for one round trip probably.
Now if the nat cc was not already started, then definitely you should kill the assimilator.
My AC is broken. Watching this for chills
Flash playing flashterrran! 🥰
2base upgrade terran = ARTOSIS BUILD LIKE FOR YEARS
holy shit - GG called I literally depressurized vibrations.... chills... alright... chills
100 supply at 9 minutes for terran is absolutely crazy
outflashed
This game just gave me chills 😎
Spider mines are doing so much damage
Hey artosis how many minerals do you lose for killing assimilator?
"Flash economy is insane, hes half SCV ahead of Protoss"
"Shaping up to be a long game."
GG two minutes later lol
Let's goooo
I cant find Flash on cwal anymore.
Is it a little chillie in here?
Guy is a wizard
Cmon guys just chill a little
Don't be disappointed about Wraith Defense RT, that was never a consideration to the open Flash would choose this game. Now that he's properly seeded the meta with EFFECTIVE opens, that require DIVERGENT RESPONSES, he's kicking the tires on the first opens he was using against Bisu again, to breathe life into the third standard variant of TvP, Upgrade Terran. Wraith Opens, perhaps even MULTI-WRAITH opens, will come around, in response to mass shuttle-reaver nukes that are incoming. Snow has revealed the horror in PvP, it shouldn't be long before someone looks at PvT application.
I've been thinking about unit posturing as a whole. As brilliant as Flash's pushouts are, you can see that his success usually starts from extraordinarily clean defenses, and then counter attacking. He gets rolled when people counter time out his move out, checking out the Emperor's Anti-Drop Defense, or are able to take the other mains safely due to spawn positions.
What I'm getting at is the type of base defense used, allows the type of posturing you can do with your army.
ie.
Aggressive turret placement supports aggressive Army positioning and base scans. Mines can be used flexibly to match Army disposition.
Defensive Mines support aggressive vulture rotations, but conservative scan use until turrets available
Cheating Static Base Defense (Flash-Style) mandates defensive army positioning throughout base.
What's especially important is that the way the units are USED differ depending on what you CHOOSE to defend with and what you're ABLE to defend with. That's all. "that's so obvious" is it? I was getting hounded about getting starport to use a wraith to defend, instead of racing into gol tech even faster. so I would say as obvious as something is, the takeaway is not uniform at all. I see players treating 1 wraith as a replacement for 4 goliaths. at that number and timing, 1 wraith is like a pair of emergency tire chains, until you can setup your 4WD with snow tires. Just think about it, lol.
Question for Artosis. Now that we’ve seen this type of game, so IF P did a shuttle dive like that and didn’t do damage, P loses on the spot. In a sense, it’s P gambling. The question is, did P here know that he’s gambling/all in? If so, what’s the better strategy?
better strat is to do what rich did in that other game and just take the whole map, bank 4k minerals/gas, 4 stargate carrier auto win
Ah so a early 3base is possible.. artosis
I feel like Paralyze should not have engaged until legs kicked in. Anyway pleeease cast more Snow vs Flash! They played a bo5 recently (not the bo6 where Flash 6-0'd Snow)
7:21 4 scvs on gas. Sometimes even the gods fail optimization xD
I think with 4 scvs you actually mine a little bit faster, so it could've been deliberate
This game is awesome
Arty casts numbah one
Since the experts are here: is the Remastered Version of Starcraft worth it? Tried the "free" one, which did not feel good without Full HD and without being able to change Keybindings.
I mean the free version is pretty much the same game but without full screen
If you like the game then its worth it
@@dj_koen1265 Thank you for the Info!
MORE FLASH
When Flash makes his ASL comeback, will you and Tasteless make your ASL comeback as well???
it's not up to them
Arty, would you care to try out the RTS Retro Commander? It has nice pixel art style and maybe a lot of potential (still in development).
would appreciate if you could work on the observing skills a bit more. randomly mouse spamming and jumping around to focus on apparently nothing are some areas that could be improved on. thanks for the flash games :)
GG
i just wish these titles wouldnt spoil the games in any way
Damn that was good. Crazy game!
It's better work.
There is a reason Terran is by far the most successful race in tournaments. Add flash to that equation and the game starts to look really imba.
Protoss has to do work with its specialized units ( reaver, Templar) because its standard units cost too much for their stats/supply.
GG, hoping to see flash in asl
Spoilers
Pros love being pansies with these premature ggs. Scrap it out, grow bollocks. 4 base, down only 20 supply, plenty of opportunities to win or get solid practice holding for as long as possible on the backfoot to drain opponents mental stamina.
Flash isn't even that good. Terran is just OP
.
Comments
Nope
boring. bad drop = insta death
We need to start getting 2 matches a day unless 1 of the matches is 20min+. This rate of catchup is just too slow... I'm gonna end up watching the casts from other TH-camrs at this point..
Eh, lackluster. But good to start the day with anyways!
1st
Sadly Terran is OP and Protoss doesn't have a chance.
you know. the real problem here is that only Flash really knows how to macro. A good terran should have as much vultures as zealots (75g vs 100g), and as much tanks as dragoons (150g vs 125g), and equalise the supply. lots of terran are sooo bad at macro they are always 20-40 supply behind as if its normal. i assure you its not.
Neither vultures nor zealots require any G
Factories, plus addons, are more expensive than gateways and probes mine faster than SCVs, and Protoss expansions are easier to take
Terran's just not capable of producing like that. As ublade said, factories with add-ons are more expensive than gateways. I don't know the exact build times either but I think tanks take a bit longer than goons. Also take into account that protoss has a faster expansion rate, they're usually at least 0.5 to 1 expansions ahead of terran. If terran as a race was capable of matching goon production with their tank production they would roll protoss every time. Tanks are much more powerful than goons. That's why it takes forever to max out with mech, otherwise it would be op
How to tell us you don't play broodwar without telling us.
Factories cost 250/100 with add-on. Gateways cost 150. Seige Tank + Vulture costs 225/100, Dragoon + Zealot cost 225/50, Terran units literally cost 50 more gas for the same supply and their buildings are significantly more expensive. This is ignoring the fact you need Seige, Vulture Speed, and Vulture Mines (And in this game Goliath Range), while the protoss can take a 3rd base just off Dragoon Range
Any Protoss with less Supply than a Terran in the early game isn't playing the fucking game correctly, their units and buildings and upgrades are SIGNIFICANTLY LESS EXPENSIVE
@@Figgy20000 Isn't factory with add-on 250/150? Don't get me wrong, your point is still clear as day.
@@kalleoakoskinen Sorry you are correct mistyped it's even worse XD The costs add up fast when you compare 5-6 factories vs 5-6 gateways.
Skip, another Terran win.
LF flash games where he doesnt wipe the floor with his enemies :')
these games are so boring to watch...
But Terran weak how comes ...
Flash such a cheater man
All your clicking everywhere on the map makes me dizzy....
Are you going for a world record on APM when you cast?
At least you are not zooming in and out like use to do on your erlier casts.
T will win, haha!