Smh. The fact that it is a musical. Is why it is joker. Dumbass. (I mean that respectively.). Ex. Jq played. The man in black. And. Steph is GAGA. Could u ask for more.
The Joker & Harley mallet comic reference is a reach, it's definitely a Judge's gavel that the Joker wields at 15:32. Did you get that from MT? And if you're counting Clooney as Batman in the Flash then technically theirs 4 as you can hear & see Adam West for a brief moment. 👎
People showing disappointment at joker movie like how the crowd left the courtroom disappointed, when Arthur said there's no joker. You see? You see the similarity?
That's exactly what I was thinking when I watched it too 😂 I thought this movie was very artistic. The musical elements work well conveying Arthur's delusions.
This is what I saw so wrong in this. I was like "What?" after all the build up to become Joker again and he just ditch it? i mean I don't mind he wanted to step down being a Joker but the reasoning is just weak. Just because one of his supporter, Ricky got killed? The fuck? Like dude, didn't he first become a joker to getting rid the power abuse such as politics who like using and abuse power to the weak. That's the reason he has many supporters and also Harley because he is the only person stand up and fight. And in the end, he just like "let's not change that system cause I just don't want to do it anymore" after killing 6 people? I even like the musical and don't mind Harley completely change on her background from the original despite many people dislike them. THis is just shame to end it this way.
I like the idea of Arthur being “the idea” to inspire the real Joker. When Bruce becomes Batman he will remember the night of the Joker riots and how his parents were killed. I like that they made Arthur responsible for creating the Joker and Batman on that night
Same. A lot of people have been swept away by this whole multiverse crap that they can't recognise reality even if it stares them in the face. It was unpredictable and I love that about it
It's actually a great film. Harley wasn't pregnant, she was manipulating Arthur. She makes this fake reveal as he is interrogating her about her lies, and she feels she might lose him. It's also implied the actual joker is a psychopathic inmate who misinterprets and glorifies the alter ego thus adopting it in his later crimes.
In the scene where it is hinted that Harley is manipulating him, I thought the movie was about to give us a great twist and go in a great direction, but it really didn't follow up with it very well and just continued to meander. Same with the "Young Inmate" character. They really could have done a better job of setting him up.
Sadly when a movie makes all the money. They will always want a sequel. To make more money. The movie was okay but the first movie is hard to top. That's just the sequel curse lol
If this movie was just about someone dealing with their personal and mental issues, the film would have been great but when you associate THE JOKER, one of the greatest villains to ever exist in comic book history, who even gave nightmares to even Batman, along with Harley Quinn and just make a socio-meta commentary, then it just doesn't work. We don't want to empathize with Joker, he's meant to be 1 step ahead of the situation always and not someone who just falls in love after 1 kiss and surrenders easily
yeah fr, this ending just showed we were tricked into thinking these were the joker origin story movies, but instead its actually the story about a mentally ill person thinking there someone called the joker
@@Lordsalt802 true and that's where my major issue is. Don't call this movie the joker, don't associate the characters with DC and I'd rate this move a 9/10 but they are openly nerfing down one of the greatest comic book characters that ever existed.. and those who are saying that the filmmakers are mocking those who aspire to be like Joker, I think there are more people who like joker because of the mastermind he is but they all root for batman to defeat him at the end
You have no idea how many spoilers I had to go through to finally hear the non-joke "joke" at the end of the movie. Every other spoiler video referenced it, but you're the first one to *tell* it. Thank you.
Somehow I went for this movie in the shadow of the broken man. A mind that can no longer comprehend what life is anymore, a Tragedy or a comedy. But the music starts when he falls in love, well that's what love feels like for someone as lonely as Arthur. It's a musical, a symphony that attempts to heal the soul. And when he learnt he was going to be a father, he started evolving, fearing his own death for the first time. hose guards assaulting him brought things into perspective, he was just a simple man done wrong by the world and himself. So he confessed. And when he sees her walk away, then the music stops. He knew there was no love for him, it was al for the Joker. It was Joker's shared Delusion and not Arthur's. Life again had no meaning and was not worth fighting for.
I think the cartoon in the beginning kinda put its into perspective albiet a crude one, the shadow is ment to represent the sick brutal and performative nature of joker that once fleck rejected the shadow took on a life of its own literally killing him because he failed to be joker
@@mrcosmo670 not quite you see I think the director is jabbing at the fans that wanted to see fleck win and the fans that wanted a heath ledger style joker
I saw it on Thursday night early screening on IMAX and just like the first one, I absolutely LOVE it! I got it, I get them, they’re just phenomenal but I can definitely see why it’s divisive. A casual viewer will loathe it for sure, just like a few gatekeepers lmao
Can’t help but think Harley was paid by the feds to get to Arthur to manipulate the trial. Cops allowing her get in his cell (which isn’t allowed) , manipulating him to fire his lawyer, then leaving. The Cops were out to get him from the very first film. I left the film feeling terrible for him. The first film was probably a musical too, but it was just in Arthur's head...., we didn't hear it. I liked the second film showcased that.
I just assumed Lee was lying when she said she was pregnant… I mean we learned she lied to get Arthur to like her, I thought it made sense she’d lie again when he was pulling away…
He and Lee never slept together. There is no way they would put him in solitary and let her in, with a makeup bag. He was off his meds, obsessed, in solitary confinement. He hallucinated it. I think most of the scenes with Lee were either hallucinations or she played into the things he said to keep him on a hook.
@@MayaTheBeeeeee I don’t think he hallucinated it. The colors become warm when he’s in his delusional world. They are cold in the real world, which is why he had awful s** in prison, and not some fantastical love making scene in some faraway spot or something.
@@ReemTahir why would a place like Arkham let him get laid in solitary confinement? And let her bring in makeup?? He got beat up, thrown into the box and then they send in his little girlfriend? Pls.
@ because it’s corrupt. Lee admitted she did a lot to get into the cell. If the security is so high, why would the guards set Arthur up to meet Harley in the first place… please
I loved the movie, but I’m a psychologist. I loved seeing a movie focus on the psychopathology of a criminal instead of the blood and guts of the actual crimes. There is a heavy influence of Ted Bundy’s Florida death penalty trial. Lady Gaga’s character is a representation of Hybristophilia which is a paraphilia involving sexual interest in and attraction to those who commit crimes. Fantastic movie!!!
EXACTLY TY FOR THIS, this is why people hate it. Its cuz its not much of the classic DC films. Its more of an insight on the characters mind and mental health and issues at hand not a battle between heroes and villians
For Those Struggling To Make A Connection Between Both Films: Joker -Arthur is troubled, sick, delusional, ostracized from society. Life is beating him down. -Arthur is pushed to his breaking point when he gets fired and heads home on the subway and ends up killing three men. -Arthur runs away and goes to the bathroom and has an epiphany that this persona he has is the real him, and he embraces the identity that he has not yet named (Joker). -Arthur is delusional and experiencing hallucinations, and he eventually discovers that his mother abused him and was lying to him about everything. He eventually ends up killing her. -Arthur gets invited to the Murray Franklin Show because of a clip that was found of him doing stand up. He says yes, and plans to kill himself on the show. -When Arthur is in the dressing room he asks Murray to call him Joker and he finally identifies himself with the name Joker -Arthur ends up changing his mind and kills Murray instead. This event causes riots to take place all over the world. He also gains a following and becomes a symbol. Something he did not plan or anticipate. He is then captured eventually and sent to Arkham. Final Thoughts: Should we be rooting for a murderer? Should we feel bad for someone who is deemed an unreliable narrator and is ultimately a murderer? Is Arthur really capable of being a criminal mastermind when he is mentally ill and unstable? Joker was probably never really the true Joker…Todd Phillips let us know this awhile ago…the audience watching this film was rooting for Arthur, but we have to ask ourselves, should we really be rooting for him? Joker: Folie A Deux -Arthur is in Arkham, model inmate, still gets bullied, mistreated regardless. He has stopped taking his medication. We find out that he has a following outside of the prison, and that a tv movie was made which has catapulted his fame to new heights. Joker is struggling with maintaining this identity and loses his spark. Uses music to balance the fractures in his mind throughout. He is also in an ongoing trial for his murders. Harvey Dent is seeking the death penalty. -Arthur encounters Lee who we find out is “in love” with him and influences a lot of his decisions. Arthur is infatuated with her and believes that she loves him for who he is. When he meets her, Joker comes alive again and he starts to sing and unlock the true music that was always inside of him. It turns out that Lee is actually just a delusional, obsessed fan of Arthur and did things just so she could be closer to him. -Arthur eventually reveals to the world, to the audience, the jury, that he really is not Joker. That it was just an act, a character he played and that he was tired of it all. He realized that he couldn’t keep up the act and convince everybody of his innocence. This created a huge let down for fans across the world. The people that rooted for him, the people that looked to him as a symbol, as a hero, were deceived and ultimately angered. Lady Gaga then falls out of Love with Arthur because he is not the Joker. She tells him when they last encounter that all they had was the fantasy. Arthur also comes to a realization that he’s tired of singing. She then leaves him and he gets locked up. -At the end, Arthur is leaving to go see a visitor, and an inmate, who was fascinated by Arthur, followed him, saw him as a symbol, etc., approaches him to tell a joke. Arthur is giving the inmate at the end a shot at a joke, the same shot that nobody gave him. At the end of the joke he says “you get what you fucking deserve” and stabs him to death. The inmate carves a smile into his face (homage to Heath) alluding that the symbol of Joker and who Arthur represented still carries on. Joker even says at the end “I want a fine young son, to take my place.” Thats Life. Final thoughts: Arthur’s life was always a tragedy. That’s life. Arthur was never the true clown prince of crime. He was just playing a character that he ultimately could not keep portraying. The joke was on us. The society in Joker is a mirror of us. We were all let down by the reveal that the person we were rooting for was ultimately not Joker. We were all cheering on a murderer and we found it acceptable because he was Joker. But is it really acceptable? Joker was just the symbol/inspiration for the real Joker to take place. His legacy will live on. Additional thoughts: The first film is called Joker not The Joker. This was an origin story, not THE origin story. The idea was that this wasn’t THE Joker it was an inspiration for the actual one.
Yep I think the film was deliberately meant to be a disappointment, so really, it's genius. Not one reviewer i have watched has realised this. I enjoyed it.
I don't know why people were expecting a "Batman" movie in the traditional sense. The first movie was mostly a movie about mental health and sick society portrayed through the lens of "Joker", with heavy influence from older movies like "The King of Comedy". Nobody was ever told this was going to be where Batman shows up and they battle it out. We have plenty of those. This movie continued the themes from before, adding to it more of the fantasy that killers and other criminals and those with mental issues can have about their lives and where that eventually leads to, shown this time through grandiose musical numbers. Also under the microscope was the sensationalism we all feed into and fascination with people like Ted Bundy or John Gacy, or the people that thought the Boston Marathon Bombers were "hot"; It wasn't random that they kept bringing up the "TV Movie" or that it was the first televised court case in Gotham. Also this film dealt with general hero worship, especially of those that do wrong, culminating fact that once Arthur realized he no longer wanted to continue trying to fill the now very large shoes of the Joker, everyone began to turn on him. The fantasy and worship was over, they didn't really care about the man under the makeup. The guy at the end was showcasing that "Joker" was more than just Fleck now, and could be carried on by any psycho, and the nod to Ledger to showcase that was great! Maybe the filmmakers also wanted to distance the films from the idea many real people had that they want to BE like this Joker, and you can't blame them for that.
so? It’s a new interpretation, there a bunch of animated movies and live actions showing the regular old joker. Hell, even in the first movie he wasn’t the “Clown Prince of Crime.” It’s obvious that this story is about a mentally ill man that is being idolized by the public.
@ and how many of those interpretations do not include Batman? And some interpretations are more successful than others. This was not successful at all
Joker 2 should have been a mix of Goodfellas (the rise of Joker and his gang) and Cape Fear (Joker going full on crazy like Max Caddy) keeping up the Scorcese homage
I mean the filmmakers probably did not want to make the movie, but the first one made money so sequel guaranteed or maybe they wanted to do something else that isn't like the one you just mentioned..
I can see why people aren't really loving it but imo I kind of liked it. This is a perfect joker story imo feels like a comic origin to me I knew from the first one he wasn't "the joker" but played a guy struggling with mental health and just losing it at a certain point , we kind of felt for Arthur because at the end of the day he had a mental illness and we understood that (to an extent) having joker built up to be the joker doesn't really work for me because he's such an unknown he literally has no name, that having the REAL joker behind the scenes watching Arthur and planning this whole thing and killing "joker" only makes him more menacing...and that laugh. I mean i had to rewatch that scene and it literally sounds like a killer clown you can watch how he's holding the knife you can just tell this guy is just built off pure evil he wants pure chaos taking out the guy that stood for the people.. it just works for me I don't know if you look at it at a different angle this is a perfect origin story its just a whole misdirect for the clown prince of crime I think they flipped the whole story on its head and that's usually how the joker makes an appearance
the more i think about it the more i like this ending. what did people expect this to lead to? its very obvious he wasnt going to be the joker we all know and love, so i feel like this ending is kind of fitting for the character. he never did catch a break tho lol
Lee wasn't pregnant. She clearly lied to distract him because she had just told him that she moved into his old building and he said "I don't want to live there." That's when she tells him she is pregnant. She had just admitted to lying in order to get him to like her. She was telling another lie to keep him close. Also I think the title Folie A deux isn't about Lee and Arthur. I think it is about Lee and the Psycopath/New Joker. Those are the two that are sharing in the fantasy. Arthur is just their victim/martyr...in a similar way that Toxic fans of the first film miss the point that this film is a tragedy about a mentally ill man and think it is about The Joker. I feel like TP understands that the joker as a character is like a mold that grows in gotham. He is the personification of the madness that is born out of the conditions of the city. The first joker film is showing how the city births "The Joker". Arthur is like the body that the alien emerges from...not the monster itself. In that way the true origin of the joker requires both movies. The first film is conception and the second is birth.
This is a story about a Joker not the joker I feel like people are getting way to hung up on the fact that our boy was just having really bad mental issues
I really liked this movie because it’s a deconstruction of why people misinterpreted the first film. Follow Harley Quinn’s story arc. She mirrors the reactions of the audience at every point. What sucks most is that even though I didn’t like this movie as much as I liked the first, that two face cameo and new joker had me so hyped for a third. But a buddy of mine actually helped me understand that the ending is actually a metaphor for every actors interpretation of the character and how now it’s someone else’s turn!
I'm happy Arthur's suffering wasn't for nothing...in the end Arthur lives on through his altar ego who will humble society, the very society that made JOKER in the first place. Arthur is the father of batman and joker...he made them.
Here's at least two more: When Arthur shows up for his trial, he's wearing a brown coat and yellow shirt - Bruce Wayne's suit from the '90s animated series and from Sam Hamm's BATMAN '89. The "madness for two" subtitle in the end was referring not to Harley Quinn's relationship with the Joker, but to the unnamed inmate who stabs Arthur to death out of disappointment in him.
I remember seeing a tweet from the day that Joker: Folie a Deux was announced and that it was going to be a musical. The tweet said, "This will either be the best sequel of all time, or the worst sequel of all time." And I think the reviews speak for themselves. Having Auther die from a random inmate after all that buildup from the first film and only seeing a hint of all the destruction that would follow from his "negative thoughts" really cheapens the story of the first film. And knowing that the random inmate will go on to carry his ideals by becoming the "real" Joker, makes the audience feel like the biggest joke of all. Because what's the point of following Auther's journey into madness if he's not the even the one who becomes the Joker?
@@deathproof8732Joker in Batman the killing Joke animated film has a origin story so this is not the first time they gave Joker origin story but mostly in the comics and movies Joker has no origin story he is just exist as psychopath murderer clown.And i believe Joker is better with no origin story at all.
One of the most divisive films I’ve seen in a long time. For a follow-up to a movie that needed no sequel, I’m happy to have it. People will either love it or hate it. I found myself loving it, although it’s not without its flaws. Best you go in with open-minded and roll the dice on if it’ll pull you in or not.
You know, I'm almost glad that Auther died at the end of the film. Todd Phillips recently said that he believes that Auther wouldn't want to fight Batman if the two met and Auther would look at Batman as the "alpha male". Should that have been the case, then there's no way to really progress their dynamic as Auther wouldn't really have a motivation to commit crimes as he would look at Batman from a place of admiration.
I saw the IMAX fan preview on Monday night - I liked the entire movie, I loved all the cover songs and I thought Joaquin Phoenix & Lady Gaga were both mesmerizing. For me, it was a total extension of Joker 1 (sequel haha I know) so I went down this rabbit hole of madness within horrific Arkham asylum. I honestly don’t think Todd Phillips was saying Eff You to anyone. He never intended to make a sequel. Joker 2019 was supposed to be a standalone movie. For me, it makes sense that he had to wrap it up. But it’s not FU. Joker 2019 was 10/10 for me. I saw it at least 7 times mostly in IMAX and once in 70MM film. I’d say Joker 2 is 8-9 out of 10 for me.
The most disappointing film in recent years, it's unbelievable what the team did with the legacy of the previous film... such a trashy product... it feels like they're laughing at us, as if we were the real clowns...
They are laughing at you. You were not supposed to like the first Joker; but you did; which upset the filmmaker because that wasn't his intention. So he made this movie so you would finally get his point.
It’s honestly just a deconstructing of Joker. I think the director just wanted to make a statement that he doesn’t want to be responsible for creating an irl Joker 😂 But yeah, that ending will be very devisive
Am I the only one who noticed the actual guy who will become the real "Joker" in this Gotham universe is the guy who stabbed Arthur? You can literally see him cutting the scars into his face in the background as Arthur dies. This story arc of Arthur Fleck, over two movies, created Harlee, Two Face and the actual Joker.
if there was a 5-year gap between one and two like there was in real time that would make batman about 17 in the movie because he looked like he was about 12 in the first Joker. The kid who stabbed Arthur looked like he could be as young as 20. That's only an 3 year age difference. It could work.
These songs are what Arthur imagines, so they don't have to move the plot, it's his fantasies, they are a part of the character himself. I can understand not liking the singing or the songs themselves, but the complaint that these music scenes do nothing is strange
@@TonyOhanian-f3v These musical sequences are what Arthur imagines not just for no reason obviously. He was in love with a real person for the first time and that person also liked his joker persona, so he was imagining them in different contexts singing and dancing, this is what people do, imagining different kinds of dreamy stuff about someone they love, and for Arthur it's especially understandable, it's also a good way to give more scenes with him in the Joker persona, and Joker in general in comic books, cartoons and games was singing and doing the musical numbers, like the I Go Looney song from the Killing Joke, or him singing at the end of all Arkham games. It's just in the character's DNA
Don't sweat it. You're debating people who over-hyped the first movie for superficial reasons. Now without the MCU juggernaut, people can't use this movie to make themselves feel "hipster cool".
Am I in a different universe? Literally just finished it and I absolutely loved it. It's not only a true origin for this universes joker, but an amazing character study into the One Bad Day trope that supposedly created the Joker in the first place. Arthur Fleck is not the Joker, he is the fulcrum of the origin. Basically this is the prequels but done right. I hate the Internet.
I actually really liked it. I don't think it's for everyone but I enjoyed the stylistic choices. If you aren't paying attention i can see why you wouldn't like it or wouldn't see the ending coming but I think it made perfect sense. Also upon reflection, this movie is borderline perfect. You really didn't mention allll the ways Harley manipulated everything. How Arthur was genuinely healing and could have probably been found not guilty. Harley orchestrated their meeting, having sex in the isolation room, the bomb, his assassination, even his musical hallucinations. She might be one of the most interesting villians in recent history and that seems to be completely missed by most people. I mean she is confronted about her bs and she rizzes him up while basically telling him she orchestrated everything lol
This! Let's also talk about Lee. As most "wouldn't understand" Arthur and his pain, Lee does. But, how could Lee "get him" if she's not where he's from, didn't have similar life experiences, or hasn't walked in Arthur's shoes? Lee studied psychology and psychiatry at a Master's level. She'd have the know-how and ability to study, analyze, and profile Arthur, his life, and his crimes. She's come to understand Arthur and knew how to manipulate him (which she did). Lee could've gotten too close to her work (as a student), took an interest in serial killers, romanticized about Arthur, or any other likely scenario. Like society, Lee is obsessed with "The Joker," not Arthur. She even puts Arthur in character (via the application of Joker's makeup) before they, you know... Later, when Arthur says he's just himself, not Joker, Harley turns her back on Arthur (like society) because the fantasy is over. Once again, Arthur is a victim of society's subconsciousness, repressed anger, and sadness. It'd be great to have a movie or show about what happened in Harley's life to make her the way she is. What "one bad day" (or many) did she have? What pushed her? Are Harley and Arthur all that different?
If the first movie was a recollection, then Joaquin could’ve been the real joker, but this makes more sense as this guy looks like he’s about 10 years older than Bruce
I think the reason ppl are upset is because they wanted it to be a comic book movie when really it’s a regular movie with comic characters. I went in expecting it to be bad bc of all the reviews but I thought it was pretty good.
nah. The first one was also more a regular movie with the Joker-name slapped on it, rather than a comic book movie (consider how heavily the first one was lifted from scorsese) and people loved that one. They just hates the sequel, because it's dedicated to tearing down the character who they saw themselves in.
Dude you missed out the psycho that shanks him is the new joker(actual joker to Batman) as you can see as movie ends him carving a smile on his face with the knife
@@AspiringServant65 I meant to say that the Matt Reeves Batman world that the penguin show is in should just be the primary DC universe. I mean it's awesome so far. 🤷 My original comment was talk to text so it kind of fucked up
@@AspiringServant65 Yeah, I'm happy with the penguin show and hopefully we can get maybe a Harvey dent show. I think a good courtroom drama would be pretty nice in this universe
Instead of Joker Folie A Deux. I would have wanted a new story of Joker in short words. "If I'm going to have a past. I prefer it to be multiple choice." If that makes sense.
Watching these two movies together is like watching a firework go off. The first movie was planting the rocket, lighting the fuse, watching it burn down, watching the rocket shoot off into the sky, and explode in dazzling colours. The sequel picks up after that. The explosion has already gone off, and all we’re left with are a bunch of sparkles that fall to the ground before sputtering out into nothing.
I think people have a genuine personal gripe with joker very much in a similar way they do with lady gaga in real life. Preemptively putting potential crime on him but in real life it was a batman movie that encouraged a terrible crime.
he admired the Joker, not Arthur. thats the whole meaning. as soon soon as Arthur confirmed Joker doesnt exist, Harley breaks up and that guy stabs him
@@BadBloonder Definitely another disappointment we were all rooting for Arthur to rise up for how society treated him, and see him become powerful and get revenge on society.
Really enjoyed it. The fact they didn’t just repeat Joker was great. After the crap that was Romulus it goes to show film makers can be creative. Edit: god I’m sick of things needing to be connected to other films. Let it be its own thing ffs kids. Grow up. Edit edit: not transparent A Shadow! Knock know, who’s there? Arthur. Arthur who…. THATS THE POINT of THAT
"Jukebox musicals" can be executed well. Across the Universe is an amazing Beatles inspired musical where the songs are not only beautifully sung, but make a lot of sense to the context of the story. However, it seems here they wanted to focus on a particular era of time from where these songs came from (from the selection you mentioned), rather than trying to find songs that related to what the story was. Not sure why that was the case, but I guess the era of which these songs came from was more important than plot for some reason. It wouldn't be hard to do both, but it was either done for a reason, or someone made a "jukebox musical" not knowing how it works.
musicals usually use the songs to further the story. Best example is Buffy. They had a musical episode where every song advanced the characters. Xander and Anya about the worries of marriage, Spike about loving buffy but refusing to simp for her, Buffy being a masochist who was revived and cant feel anything, Giles seeing himself as a father figure, Tera singing about how Willow is essentially raping her with magic. Where as musicals like Flash and now Joker, are just there because "lol lets do a song and dance because we can!"
After i heard its gona be a musical, i knew Lady gaga got full control over production and i have to agree with kanye on this one " how the f lady gaga know about camera "
I believe that the ending of Joker: Folie à Deux suggests that Arthur has now completely rejected his true personality after being rejected by Harley, which retraumatized him. This led him to fully embrace the persona of the “true Joker” as we know him. I don’t think Arthur is physically dead, but rather that the Joker within him has finally killed Arthur once and for all. And that is who we see in the batman movie and where the story continues.
@@taylorwoah6322 I guess the dude is a representation of his alter ego… because previous in the movie, when he tried to attack Arthur, nobody seemed to react to him, just like when he stabbed him. The dude seems to be an imagination of arthur. The whole movie revolved about his indecisiveness who he really wants to be…
@@karnimani2088this could also link with the dark shadow / dual personality in the opening looney tunes animated scene by foreshadowing it, Arthur is also watching looney tunes on the tv prior to being told he has a visitor. We’re told by the doctors he has a dual personality, the title alludes to it and we can clearly see Arthur is a fantasist from events we’ve seen in the first movie and of course the musical sequences in this. Not to mention that the original ending of the first movie it was planned that he was going to cut the smile into his face too.
Yes my mum and me had the exact same idea, glad other people think this aswell, the guy who “kills” Arthur can be seen in the background of many of his scenes almost like a shadow, a link to the films opening
@@taylorwoah6322 Potentially the inmate who stabbed him wasn't even real. Arthur frequently hallucinates things that aren't real so it could've been his view of his Arthur side completely dying off.
@@writerartist6306 - I genuinely don't understand the hate. Also, alot of what he said in this video is wrong, such as *SPOILERS* Harley being pregnant. At the end Arthur asks her if she's pregnant and she sings that it's just a show, meaning she wasn't. Also Todd Phillips is done with DC so no Harvey Dent movie.
@@aldente3709 Yep! Agreed. She's a narcissistic compulsive liar. Arthur's Joker was just a projected fantasy for her to get lost in, and just like she lied about being pregnant, she could have lied about her mother committing her, how her dad died, etc. Just like she lied to get Arthur away from his lawyer.
Singing was literally 5-10% of the Movie, Nowhere 50%, that's ridiculous!! Just have fun doing your job right instead of massively misinforming people and counting the singing minutes pls! If u didn't like it then just as most people you missed the point! It's on you then cuz the film is incredibly poetic, artistic and simply brillant!!
So many people who thought Arthur was gonna be the Joker just shows y'all missed the point of the first film. He was never that. He was a disturbed man let down by society spiraling out of control who gets propped up to be a symbol. This movie brings that narrative to its natural conclusion. How are y'all mad? Lolz
For me, Joker: Folie á Deux ending meant the ending of Arthur Fleck, who was tired of being Joker for people, which saw him as a leader and especially for Harley Quinn (Lady Gaga), who was deeply fell in love with him. So, he always wanted someone to take his place, then his dream came true.
I actually really liked the fact they weren’t original songs in it, they fed more into the fantasy parts and how they were deep-rooted in his relationship with his mother/how he was treated a child as they used to listen to music together etc. Overall all i thought it worked and i really enjoyed it. God im SUCH a maverick 😂🤪
I enjoyed it with a full theatre. Great songs and whimsy, contrasted by the dread and sorrow. The court room scenes are definitely the high point for me.
I saw the movie and it's awwsome!! Put yourself in his mind with the music but also the story!!!! I loved it and followed it and fucking loved it,they did his character study to a new level!!!! Everyone who can't see the rebirth then watch again !! I get it and fucking loved it
It's metaphors about Conscious Mind vs Subconscious Mind; Ego vs the real you; polarity; thoughts presented as illusions by the ego; finding real freedom when you face your fears/your Dark side; accepting yourself for who you are good or bad; how when/if you try to change for the better people will hate you -misery likes company. There's more, I'll have to watch it again.
I think this was the beginning of the real Joker and the ending of his father! I wasn’t frustrated with the musical part because thats the way of insane mind seeing reality and the way that he was puled out from his fantasies to dark reality! Brilliant
I watched the movie yesterday when it came out on digital because people were talking so badly about it that I wanted to save the money on going to the theater. I don't know if I went with my expectations so low or what, but I swear I can't see the bad in this movie. I thought it was GENIUS. I don't want to be overbearing and say “oh, but you didn't understand” because I can perfectly understand those who didn't like the movie, but I understood the meaning and the layers throughout. Maybe it's me philosophizing beyond the film itself, trying to justify the scenes, but idk, I thought it was great. Almost all the songs had a reason and few sounded out of tune. Okay, sometimes they went on too long, but most of them made sense with the story they wanted to tell. And the movie takes a heavy turn after the scene with the guards when they rap... Arthur. It seems that the film breaks Arthur and shows everyone who projected themselves onto the Joker in the first film that he's just some guy projecting himself above what he was and in reality he's an extremely broken and traumatized guy. I thought the ending was valid, after all, if he didn't die, what would he be? He'd go to jail?! But I thought it was a bit random that the guy killed him. But I think it must be some kind of metaphor that I didn't catch. Edit: I saw some people saying that it could be heath's joker who killed Arthur and I went back to review the scene and I think it's a valid interpretation. I thought the ending was better now but I personally would make Arthur stay stuck in the miserable arkham like he was, that way we would see Arthur at the beginning of the movie stuck in a miserable state, being manipulated to rise as something he is not (joker) so that in the end he only ends up in the same state he started, stuck in a miserable state. Again, I don't want to be overbearing because I understand those who didn't like the movie, but I personally thought the criticism was so explicit that everyone would pick it up And just to conclude: that part of the trial where they say “you spent less than 2 hours with Arthur and you think you know him” he is an TERRIFIC meta commentary
The second movie let clear what the first one tried to hint. Arthur Flicks Joker was not the batmans joker. He is the individual who inspired the idea of the real joker. Arthur was never a psychopath, but a victim of the cruelty of the world around him. Arthur had a soul. The real joker don't.
They could've done something like primal fear where harleen quinzel is the jonkler's lawyer and get manipulated into freeing him thinking he was an mentality unstable but honest man. Maybe even let her fall in love with him.Then she has a mental breakdown when she realizes she got fooled and freed a mass murdering psychopath turning her into harley quinn.
I'm surprised so many people are so mad he's not the Joker. Arthur Fleck is tragic yeah, but he's also like a total and utter complete loser. I could NEVER see this version of the Joker having a Batman and actively going up against him. There would he literally no way unless he's going against a Batman equally as lame as his Joker was.
How do u just skip over the part where he is back in Arkham and abused by the guards and the guards kill the one friend he had in the Arkham. After that his demeanor changed and he no longer wanted to be joker
Thanks to Opera for sponsoring this video. Click here opr.as/10-Opera-browser-heavyspoilers to upgrade your browser for FREE!
Smh. The fact that it is a musical. Is why it is joker. Dumbass. (I mean that respectively.). Ex. Jq played. The man in black. And. Steph is GAGA. Could u ask for more.
Also have not seen it yet. Be back tomorrow with an unskeptic view. Just bk u read. Does not mean. You read
The Joker & Harley mallet comic reference is a reach, it's definitely a Judge's gavel that the Joker wields at 15:32. Did you get that from MT? And if you're counting Clooney as Batman in the Flash then technically theirs 4 as you can hear & see Adam West for a brief moment. 👎
it's really dishonest to say the music parts were 50 percent of the movie. more like 25-30 percent.
Yes and l have a cinema 20 min away 😂👐🏻
Anyone just skipping the movie and watching the spoiler reviews too? 😂
Me because i hate musical movies
yep, looks absolutely shite
Guilty…
Yes
Yeah I liked the first movie never was really interested in a sequel but of course it made over a billion dollars so they have to make a sequel
People showing disappointment at joker movie like how the crowd left the courtroom disappointed, when Arthur said there's no joker. You see? You see the similarity?
That's exactly what I was thinking when I watched it too 😂 I thought this movie was very artistic. The musical elements work well conveying Arthur's delusions.
@@MrJord274 the movie is just a waste of time and a hate boner at people who liked the first. glad its got shit reviews over all sites and tomatoes rn
This is what I saw so wrong in this. I was like "What?" after all the build up to become Joker again and he just ditch it? i mean I don't mind he wanted to step down being a Joker but the reasoning is just weak. Just because one of his supporter, Ricky got killed? The fuck? Like dude, didn't he first become a joker to getting rid the power abuse such as politics who like using and abuse power to the weak. That's the reason he has many supporters and also Harley because he is the only person stand up and fight. And in the end, he just like "let's not change that system cause I just don't want to do it anymore" after killing 6 people? I even like the musical and don't mind Harley completely change on her background from the original despite many people dislike them. THis is just shame to end it this way.
@@memeteam8274 Melt some more, loser simp
@@kuaikukia director said in the beginning before the first movie was made. He wasn’t the joker 🤣😂🤣
They should of named the movie, Joker 2: The jokes on you
That actually would have been great and it’s funny cuz it’s so true 😂
Lmaooo
This would have saved me 18 bucks
That would have been unironically better, much less pretentious too.
@@juanyusee8197 small people think big ideas are pretentious
I like the idea of Arthur being “the idea” to inspire the real Joker. When Bruce becomes Batman he will remember the night of the Joker riots and how his parents were killed. I like that they made Arthur responsible for creating the Joker and Batman on that night
That what told my cousin when first movie came out it's pretty dope
Same. A lot of people have been swept away by this whole multiverse crap that they can't recognise reality even if it stares them in the face. It was unpredictable and I love that about it
Same.
Movie called Joker” “is not actually joker”
@@johnandrei4847 i mean anyone can be the joker the same way anyone can be batman just gotta be crazy enough
It's actually a great film. Harley wasn't pregnant, she was manipulating Arthur. She makes this fake reveal as he is interrogating her about her lies, and she feels she might lose him. It's also implied the actual joker is a psychopathic inmate who misinterprets and glorifies the alter ego thus adopting it in his later crimes.
In the scene where it is hinted that Harley is manipulating him, I thought the movie was about to give us a great twist and go in a great direction, but it really didn't follow up with it very well and just continued to meander. Same with the "Young Inmate" character. They really could have done a better job of setting him up.
The first movie was great but should’ve been a stand alone
You can still view the first film and disregard this one. It's a shame they didn't expand from the previous movie. But that's life; the end!
That was Todd's initial plan , i think the studio made him do a second one
Sadly when a movie makes all the money. They will always want a sequel. To make more money. The movie was okay but the first movie is hard to top. That's just the sequel curse lol
this movie was way better, 1st movie felt like a hollow Taxi Driver remake just with a DC character
We dont consider this movie canon . There is only one joker movie HAHAHA
If this movie was just about someone dealing with their personal and mental issues, the film would have been great but when you associate THE JOKER, one of the greatest villains to ever exist in comic book history, who even gave nightmares to even Batman, along with Harley Quinn and just make a socio-meta commentary, then it just doesn't work. We don't want to empathize with Joker, he's meant to be 1 step ahead of the situation always and not someone who just falls in love after 1 kiss and surrenders easily
yeah fr, this ending just showed we were tricked into thinking these were the joker origin story movies, but instead its actually the story about a mentally ill person thinking there someone called the joker
@@Lordsalt802 true and that's where my major issue is. Don't call this movie the joker, don't associate the characters with DC and I'd rate this move a 9/10 but they are openly nerfing down one of the greatest comic book characters that ever existed.. and those who are saying that the filmmakers are mocking those who aspire to be like Joker, I think there are more people who like joker because of the mastermind he is but they all root for batman to defeat him at the end
Tgis film should also serve as commentary on why people are so fascinated with serial killers especially women who love them as well.
Even if it was that ending remains atrocious.
@@Lordsalt802I thought everyone knew that frm the first film, this is just another joker story but Arthur Fleck’s Joker story.
You have no idea how many spoilers I had to go through to finally hear the non-joke "joke" at the end of the movie. Every other spoiler video referenced it, but you're the first one to *tell* it.
Thank you.
Somehow I went for this movie in the shadow of the broken man. A mind that can no longer comprehend what life is anymore, a Tragedy or a comedy. But the music starts when he falls in love, well that's what love feels like for someone as lonely as Arthur. It's a musical, a symphony that attempts to heal the soul. And when he learnt he was going to be a father, he started evolving, fearing his own death for the first time. hose guards assaulting him brought things into perspective, he was just a simple man done wrong by the world and himself. So he confessed. And when he sees her walk away, then the music stops. He knew there was no love for him, it was al for the Joker. It was Joker's shared Delusion and not Arthur's. Life again had no meaning and was not worth fighting for.
I think the cartoon in the beginning kinda put its into perspective albiet a crude one, the shadow is ment to represent the sick brutal and performative nature of joker that once fleck rejected the shadow took on a life of its own literally killing him because he failed to be joker
Yea seemed like the Real Joker killed Arthur Fleck
@@mrcosmo670 not quite you see I think the director is jabbing at the fans that wanted to see fleck win and the fans that wanted a heath ledger style joker
Didnt even warn a brotha lmfao
Better joke than Arthur ever came up with.
Humor indicates some level of intelligence which Arthur never possessed.
Insert Arthur laugh here
I saw it on Thursday night early screening on IMAX and just like the first one, I absolutely LOVE it! I got it, I get them, they’re just phenomenal but I can definitely see why it’s divisive. A casual viewer will loathe it for sure, just like a few gatekeepers lmao
Can’t help but think Harley was paid by the feds to get to Arthur to manipulate the trial. Cops allowing her get in his cell (which isn’t allowed) , manipulating him to fire his lawyer, then leaving. The Cops were out to get him from the very first film. I left the film feeling terrible for him.
The first film was probably a musical too, but it was just in Arthur's head...., we didn't hear it. I liked the second film showcased that.
Cops also knew exactly where she was at the end when they locked him up 😮
After watching the film a second time I have to agree! She never liked him, she just used him
I just assumed Lee was lying when she said she was pregnant… I mean we learned she lied to get Arthur to like her, I thought it made sense she’d lie again when he was pulling away…
I agree! I don’t think she was pregnant at all and just lied because Arthur was getting cold feet
He and Lee never slept together. There is no way they would put him in solitary and let her in, with a makeup bag. He was off his meds, obsessed, in solitary confinement. He hallucinated it.
I think most of the scenes with Lee were either hallucinations or she played into the things he said to keep him on a hook.
@@MayaTheBeeeeee I don’t think he hallucinated it. The colors become warm when he’s in his delusional world. They are cold in the real world, which is why he had awful s** in prison, and not some fantastical love making scene in some faraway spot or something.
@@ReemTahir why would a place like Arkham let him get laid in solitary confinement? And let her bring in makeup?? He got beat up, thrown into the box and then they send in his little girlfriend? Pls.
@ because it’s corrupt. Lee admitted she did a lot to get into the cell. If the security is so high, why would the guards set Arthur up to meet Harley in the first place… please
I loved the movie, but I’m a psychologist. I loved seeing a movie focus on the psychopathology of a criminal instead of the blood and guts of the actual crimes.
There is a heavy influence of Ted Bundy’s Florida death penalty trial.
Lady Gaga’s character is a representation of Hybristophilia which is a paraphilia involving sexual interest in and attraction to those who commit crimes.
Fantastic movie!!!
EXACTLY TY FOR THIS, this is why people hate it. Its cuz its not much of the classic DC films. Its more of an insight on the characters mind and mental health and issues at hand not a battle between heroes and villians
It was a good movie, seemed like Lee killed herself at the answering machine scene and was imagined on the staircase scene.
I loved this movie too, the act was incredible as well as the content
For Those Struggling To Make A Connection Between Both Films:
Joker
-Arthur is troubled, sick, delusional, ostracized from society. Life is beating him down.
-Arthur is pushed to his breaking point when he gets fired and heads home on the subway and ends up killing three men.
-Arthur runs away and goes to the bathroom and has an epiphany that this persona he has is the real him, and he embraces the identity that he has not yet named (Joker).
-Arthur is delusional and experiencing hallucinations, and he eventually discovers that his mother abused him and was lying to him about everything. He eventually ends up killing her.
-Arthur gets invited to the Murray Franklin Show because of a clip that was found of him doing stand up. He says yes, and plans to kill himself on the show.
-When Arthur is in the dressing room he asks Murray to call him Joker and he finally identifies himself with the name Joker
-Arthur ends up changing his mind and kills Murray instead. This event causes riots to take place all over the world. He also gains a following and becomes a symbol. Something he did not plan or anticipate. He is then captured eventually and sent to Arkham.
Final Thoughts: Should we be rooting for a murderer? Should we feel bad for someone who is deemed an unreliable narrator and is ultimately a murderer? Is Arthur really capable of being a criminal mastermind when he is mentally ill and unstable? Joker was probably never really the true Joker…Todd Phillips let us know this awhile ago…the audience watching this film was rooting for Arthur, but we have to ask ourselves, should we really be rooting for him?
Joker: Folie A Deux
-Arthur is in Arkham, model inmate, still gets bullied, mistreated regardless. He has stopped taking his medication. We find out that he has a following outside of the prison, and that a tv movie was made which has catapulted his fame to new heights. Joker is struggling with maintaining this identity and loses his spark. Uses music to balance the fractures in his mind throughout. He is also in an ongoing trial for his murders. Harvey Dent is seeking the death penalty.
-Arthur encounters Lee who we find out is “in love” with him and influences a lot of his decisions. Arthur is infatuated with her and believes that she loves him for who he is. When he meets her, Joker comes alive again and he starts to sing and unlock the true music that was always inside of him. It turns out that Lee is actually just a delusional, obsessed fan of Arthur and did things just so she could be closer to him.
-Arthur eventually reveals to the world, to the audience, the jury, that he really is not Joker. That it was just an act, a character he played and that he was tired of it all. He realized that he couldn’t keep up the act and convince everybody of his innocence. This created a huge let down for fans across the world. The people that rooted for him, the people that looked to him as a symbol, as a hero, were deceived and ultimately angered. Lady Gaga then falls out of Love with Arthur because he is not the Joker. She tells him when they last encounter that all they had was the fantasy. Arthur also comes to a realization that he’s tired of singing. She then leaves him and he gets locked up.
-At the end, Arthur is leaving to go see a visitor, and an inmate, who was fascinated by Arthur, followed him, saw him as a symbol, etc., approaches him to tell a joke. Arthur is giving the inmate at the end a shot at a joke, the same shot that nobody gave him. At the end of the joke he says “you get what you fucking deserve” and stabs him to death. The inmate carves a smile into his face (homage to Heath) alluding that the symbol of Joker and who Arthur represented still carries on. Joker even says at the end “I want a fine young son, to take my place.” Thats Life.
Final thoughts: Arthur’s life was always a tragedy. That’s life. Arthur was never the true clown prince of crime. He was just playing a character that he ultimately could not keep portraying. The joke was on us. The society in Joker is a mirror of us. We were all let down by the reveal that the person we were rooting for was ultimately not Joker. We were all cheering on a murderer and we found it acceptable because he was Joker. But is it really acceptable? Joker was just the symbol/inspiration for the real Joker to take place. His legacy will live on.
Additional thoughts: The first film is called Joker not The Joker. This was an origin story, not THE origin story. The idea was that this wasn’t THE Joker it was an inspiration for the actual one.
Excellent review. Agreed. Thank you for this.👍👍
Yep I think the film was deliberately meant to be a disappointment, so really, it's genius. Not one reviewer i have watched has realised this. I enjoyed it.
“You guys dont understand, it was bad on purpose!”
Bullshit Arthur fleck is the joker !!!! 2nd film isn’t canon
Very well put. & I wanted a joker movie… it was okay I guess. The best part was the outfits and music but the storyline was terrible.
I don't know why people were expecting a "Batman" movie in the traditional sense. The first movie was mostly a movie about mental health and sick society portrayed through the lens of "Joker", with heavy influence from older movies like "The King of Comedy". Nobody was ever told this was going to be where Batman shows up and they battle it out. We have plenty of those.
This movie continued the themes from before, adding to it more of the fantasy that killers and other criminals and those with mental issues can have about their lives and where that eventually leads to, shown this time through grandiose musical numbers. Also under the microscope was the sensationalism we all feed into and fascination with people like Ted Bundy or John Gacy, or the people that thought the Boston Marathon Bombers were "hot"; It wasn't random that they kept bringing up the "TV Movie" or that it was the first televised court case in Gotham.
Also this film dealt with general hero worship, especially of those that do wrong, culminating fact that once Arthur realized he no longer wanted to continue trying to fill the now very large shoes of the Joker, everyone began to turn on him. The fantasy and worship was over, they didn't really care about the man under the makeup. The guy at the end was showcasing that "Joker" was more than just Fleck now, and could be carried on by any psycho, and the nod to Ledger to showcase that was great! Maybe the filmmakers also wanted to distance the films from the idea many real people had that they want to BE like this Joker, and you can't blame them for that.
Maybe it's because the movie is named after one of his most known villains?
so? It’s a new interpretation, there a bunch of animated movies and live actions showing the regular old joker. Hell, even in the first movie he wasn’t the “Clown Prince of Crime.” It’s obvious that this story is about a mentally ill man that is being idolized by the public.
@ and how many of those interpretations do not include Batman? And some interpretations are more successful than others. This was not successful at all
Joker 2 should have been a mix of Goodfellas (the rise of Joker and his gang) and Cape Fear (Joker going full on crazy like Max Caddy) keeping up the Scorcese homage
Its such a shame this film came out like this, it could have been a great mafia movie
I mean the filmmakers probably did not want to make the movie, but the first one made money so sequel guaranteed or maybe they wanted to do something else that isn't like the one you just mentioned..
Dude, that would've been so sick
as a comic book fan, ofc that’s what we’d want…. But that’s simply not the story they were trying to tell.
THANK YOU!
So what are we calling Joker now? The Case Of A Mentally Ill Man!
No....the joker is an idea not a single person
@@mikepiccoli6378💀
@@mikepiccoli6378but that shouldn’t be the case. Just means the actual joker is just a copycat
@@Michael-hc2vs Actual joker wasn't an autistic loser but a psycho with some skills and abilities.
The case of the mentally 3 man?
As a french guy i'll say this, you nailed it saying " Folie à deux " good job Paul
I can see why people aren't really loving it but imo I kind of liked it.
This is a perfect joker story imo feels like a comic origin to me I knew from the first one he wasn't "the joker" but played a guy struggling with mental health and just losing it at a certain point , we kind of felt for Arthur because at the end of the day he had a mental illness and we understood that (to an extent) having joker built up to be the joker doesn't really work for me because he's such an unknown he literally has no name, that having the REAL joker behind the scenes watching Arthur and planning this whole thing and killing "joker" only makes him more menacing...and that laugh. I mean i had to rewatch that scene and it literally sounds like a killer clown you can watch how he's holding the knife you can just tell this guy is just built off pure evil he wants pure chaos taking out the guy that stood for the people.. it just works for me I don't know if you look at it at a different angle this is a perfect origin story its just a whole misdirect for the clown prince of crime I think they flipped the whole story on its head and that's usually how the joker makes an appearance
I enjoyed watching this movie, thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.
the more i think about it the more i like this ending. what did people expect this to lead to? its very obvious he wasnt going to be the joker we all know and love, so i feel like this ending is kind of fitting for the character. he never did catch a break tho lol
When I heard Gaga singing "Come On Get Happy" all I heard was House MD singing it from a season 5 episode
oh thank god i wasnt the only one
@@errorsinconduct SAME
It's never lupus
@@InfiniteWatcher until the one episode where it actually was lupis lol
Lee wasn't pregnant. She clearly lied to distract him because she had just told him that she moved into his old building and he said "I don't want to live there." That's when she tells him she is pregnant. She had just admitted to lying in order to get him to like her. She was telling another lie to keep him close. Also I think the title Folie A deux isn't about Lee and Arthur. I think it is about Lee and the Psycopath/New Joker. Those are the two that are sharing in the fantasy. Arthur is just their victim/martyr...in a similar way that Toxic fans of the first film miss the point that this film is a tragedy about a mentally ill man and think it is about The Joker. I feel like TP understands that the joker as a character is like a mold that grows in gotham. He is the personification of the madness that is born out of the conditions of the city. The first joker film is showing how the city births "The Joker". Arthur is like the body that the alien emerges from...not the monster itself. In that way the true origin of the joker requires both movies. The first film is conception and the second is birth.
This is a story about a Joker not the joker I feel like people are getting way to hung up on the fact that our boy was just having really bad mental issues
I really liked this movie because it’s a deconstruction of why people misinterpreted the first film. Follow Harley Quinn’s story arc. She mirrors the reactions of the audience at every point. What sucks most is that even though I didn’t like this movie as much as I liked the first, that two face cameo and new joker had me so hyped for a third. But a buddy of mine actually helped me understand that the ending is actually a metaphor for every actors interpretation of the character and how now it’s someone else’s turn!
The horrific prison guards scene saddened me a lot. So depressing.
I really wished they'd done a trigger warning for that scene
I'm happy Arthur's suffering wasn't for nothing...in the end Arthur lives on through his altar ego who will humble society, the very society that made JOKER in the first place. Arthur is the father of batman and joker...he made them.
I felt that scene was so unnecessary.
Here's at least two more:
When Arthur shows up for his trial, he's wearing a brown coat and yellow shirt - Bruce Wayne's suit from the '90s animated series and from Sam Hamm's BATMAN '89.
The "madness for two" subtitle in the end was referring not to Harley Quinn's relationship with the Joker, but to the unnamed inmate who stabs Arthur to death out of disappointment in him.
I remember seeing a tweet from the day that Joker: Folie a Deux was announced and that it was going to be a musical. The tweet said, "This will either be the best sequel of all time, or the worst sequel of all time." And I think the reviews speak for themselves. Having Auther die from a random inmate after all that buildup from the first film and only seeing a hint of all the destruction that would follow from his "negative thoughts" really cheapens the story of the first film. And knowing that the random inmate will go on to carry his ideals by becoming the "real" Joker, makes the audience feel like the biggest joke of all. Because what's the point of following Auther's journey into madness if he's not the even the one who becomes the Joker?
Everybody knows Arthur Fleck wasn't the real Joker. Joker is a crazy person who has no origin.
@@deathproof8732but why give such a back story?
Because now we can get another with a completely new take and it can be a never ending cash cow for WB lmao @@isaacperez403
@@isaacperez403 If The Joker is going to have an "Origin Story"... he'd prefer it to be Multiple Choice ;)
@@deathproof8732Joker in Batman the killing Joke animated film has a origin story so this is not the first time they gave Joker origin story but mostly in the comics and movies Joker has no origin story he is just exist as psychopath murderer clown.And i believe Joker is better with no origin story at all.
One of the most divisive films I’ve seen in a long time. For a follow-up to a movie that needed no sequel, I’m happy to have it. People will either love it or hate it. I found myself loving it, although it’s not without its flaws. Best you go in with open-minded and roll the dice on if it’ll pull you in or not.
i agree! i personally would go see it again
@@iriesofiery same im going back this weekend lol need to digest it one more time. such an odd film.
The person who made these movies said he wasn’t the joker in the beginning! People really crying about the ending when it was told a long time ago.
You know, I'm almost glad that Auther died at the end of the film. Todd Phillips recently said that he believes that Auther wouldn't want to fight Batman if the two met and Auther would look at Batman as the "alpha male". Should that have been the case, then there's no way to really progress their dynamic as Auther wouldn't really have a motivation to commit crimes as he would look at Batman from a place of admiration.
Bruh this joker is a joke and wouldn’t even be in the same verse as batman
@@TheSinatranigga he wasn’t even the Joker in the first place. I swear people like you just refuse to use your brain
Arthur was a mental midget simp and a weakling who could never live up to rivaling Batman
@@JXWX21love to insult people but you forget, he created joker. He is the first one.
I saw the IMAX fan preview on Monday night - I liked the entire movie, I loved all the cover songs and I thought Joaquin Phoenix & Lady Gaga were both mesmerizing. For me, it was a total extension of Joker 1 (sequel haha I know) so I went down this rabbit hole of madness within horrific Arkham asylum. I honestly don’t think Todd Phillips was saying Eff You to anyone. He never intended to make a sequel. Joker 2019 was supposed to be a standalone movie. For me, it makes sense that he had to wrap it up. But it’s not FU. Joker 2019 was 10/10 for me. I saw it at least 7 times mostly in IMAX and once in 70MM film. I’d say Joker 2 is 8-9 out of 10 for me.
What a shit take
The most disappointing film in recent years, it's unbelievable what the team did with the legacy of the previous film... such a trashy product... it feels like they're laughing at us, as if we were the real clowns...
After watching it i think this is the only realistic and true to the character way a sequel to the first one could have gone. In every way
bro it wasn’t that bad…💀 the reviews are OD asf
I'm laughing at anyone that thought lady gaga plus joker = musical was a good idea
What is this trash?
They are laughing at you. You were not supposed to like the first Joker; but you did; which upset the filmmaker because that wasn't his intention. So he made this movie so you would finally get his point.
It’s honestly just a deconstructing of Joker. I think the director just wanted to make a statement that he doesn’t want to be responsible for creating an irl Joker 😂
But yeah, that ending will be very devisive
Definitely. I think he was trying to make that point that people who idolise the Joker kind of miss the point.
@ShadyPlatinum777 imagine idolizing the joker😂
That's the biggest laugh of all
I like how Paul pronounces the word 'Ruined' like 'Rune' vs. the PBS over-annunciation we hear on this side of the pond.
Am I the only one who noticed the actual guy who will become the real "Joker" in this Gotham universe is the guy who stabbed Arthur? You can literally see him cutting the scars into his face in the background as Arthur dies. This story arc of Arthur Fleck, over two movies, created Harlee, Two Face and the actual Joker.
Delivered him a killing joke too
Lol, no, you were not. Did you not listen to the video? Was like the first thing Paul talked about.
Everyone saw that lol. But the age of the " new joker" wouldn't add up
“Am I the only one who watched the end of the movie” that’s literally what you just said
if there was a 5-year gap between one and two like there was in real time that would make batman about 17 in the movie because he looked like he was about 12 in the first Joker. The kid who stabbed Arthur looked like he could be as young as 20. That's only an 3 year age difference. It could work.
These songs are what Arthur imagines, so they don't have to move the plot, it's his fantasies, they are a part of the character himself. I can understand not liking the singing or the songs themselves, but the complaint that these music scenes do nothing is strange
lol him imagining himself singing doesn’t progress the story or affect anything in the movie at all
@@Matt-e8l it doesn't have to, not everything has to move something in some drastic way
Trash
@@TonyOhanian-f3v These musical sequences are what Arthur imagines not just for no reason obviously. He was in love with a real person for the first time and that person also liked his joker persona, so he was imagining them in different contexts singing and dancing, this is what people do, imagining different kinds of dreamy stuff about someone they love, and for Arthur it's especially understandable, it's also a good way to give more scenes with him in the Joker persona, and Joker in general in comic books, cartoons and games was singing and doing the musical numbers, like the I Go Looney song from the Killing Joke, or him singing at the end of all Arkham games. It's just in the character's DNA
Don't sweat it. You're debating people who over-hyped the first movie for superficial reasons.
Now without the MCU juggernaut, people can't use this movie to make themselves feel "hipster cool".
To be honest I think Joaquin Phoenix was just tired of doing this shit and was like “please kill me”
That makes no sense since he’s on record telling Todd that there’s more he wants to do with the character
Am I in a different universe? Literally just finished it and I absolutely loved it. It's not only a true origin for this universes joker, but an amazing character study into the One Bad Day trope that supposedly created the Joker in the first place. Arthur Fleck is not the Joker, he is the fulcrum of the origin. Basically this is the prequels but done right. I hate the Internet.
We hate you to.
Nah it was shit
I love this recurring "Didn't even Warn A Brotha"😂
seen it ?
I actually really liked it. I don't think it's for everyone but I enjoyed the stylistic choices. If you aren't paying attention i can see why you wouldn't like it or wouldn't see the ending coming but I think it made perfect sense.
Also upon reflection, this movie is borderline perfect. You really didn't mention allll the ways Harley manipulated everything. How Arthur was genuinely healing and could have probably been found not guilty. Harley orchestrated their meeting, having sex in the isolation room, the bomb, his assassination, even his musical hallucinations. She might be one of the most interesting villians in recent history and that seems to be completely missed by most people. I mean she is confronted about her bs and she rizzes him up while basically telling him she orchestrated everything lol
This!
Let's also talk about Lee. As most "wouldn't understand" Arthur and his pain, Lee does. But, how could Lee "get him" if she's not where he's from, didn't have similar life experiences, or hasn't walked in Arthur's shoes? Lee studied psychology and psychiatry at a Master's level. She'd have the know-how and ability to study, analyze, and profile Arthur, his life, and his crimes. She's come to understand Arthur and knew how to manipulate him (which she did). Lee could've gotten too close to her work (as a student), took an interest in serial killers, romanticized about Arthur, or any other likely scenario. Like society, Lee is obsessed with "The Joker," not Arthur. She even puts Arthur in character (via the application of Joker's makeup) before they, you know... Later, when Arthur says he's just himself, not Joker, Harley turns her back on Arthur (like society) because the fantasy is over. Once again, Arthur is a victim of society's subconsciousness, repressed anger, and sadness. It'd be great to have a movie or show about what happened in Harley's life to make her the way she is. What "one bad day" (or many) did she have? What pushed her? Are Harley and Arthur all that different?
If the first movie was a recollection, then Joaquin could’ve been the real joker, but this makes more sense as this guy looks like he’s about 10 years older than Bruce
After he said "you won't hear a joke", The title should have cut in and said the end.
12:05 Can someone pls tell me what this guys name is? I dont remember
I think the reason ppl are upset is because they wanted it to be a comic book movie when really it’s a regular movie with comic characters. I went in expecting it to be bad bc of all the reviews but I thought it was pretty good.
nah. The first one was also more a regular movie with the Joker-name slapped on it, rather than a comic book movie (consider how heavily the first one was lifted from scorsese) and people loved that one. They just hates the sequel, because it's dedicated to tearing down the character who they saw themselves in.
Why can't people just dislike a movie because it's not good. Why you gotta overthink it
Love how I can watch your videos in the mini player even when my premium got cancelled will never go back so I appreciate it
Dude you missed out the psycho that shanks him is the new joker(actual joker to Batman) as you can see as movie ends him carving a smile on his face with the knife
Great video man! I’m with u on not being crazy about this movie. It dragged and felt like a huge missed opportunity.
Harley does not have her origin in the comic. You should refer to the animated series as her origine story
Thus was rough 😬 thanks for the video, Paul. appreciate it.
6:55 I hate that I love how you can still fit in that joke in every WB video lol
The Matt Reeves needs to just be the primary universe
Mat reeves batman sucks bats
What do you mean
@@AspiringServant65 I meant to say that the Matt Reeves Batman world that the penguin show is in should just be the primary DC universe. I mean it's awesome so far. 🤷
My original comment was talk to text so it kind of fucked up
@@D-Town-7639 Fair enough. Matt Revees don't want it to be DCU. It was his choice
@@AspiringServant65 Yeah, I'm happy with the penguin show and hopefully we can get maybe a Harvey dent show. I think a good courtroom drama would be pretty nice in this universe
It is a bad movie, with details of brilliance and an incredible ending that opens the door to the appearance of Batman's true nemesis
21:15 David Zaslav as Dr. Evil. NICE.
The grape scene left a bad taste in my mouth it had no purpose just disgusting man.
Instead of Joker Folie A Deux. I would have wanted a new story of Joker in short words. "If I'm going to have a past. I prefer it to be multiple choice." If that makes sense.
Thank you for this breakdown, Paul. Please please please do The Substance. It's right up your alley.
Barry Keoghan is doing reviews now?? I’m all for it. Subbed
I hope this isn’t the end, I would like to see different versions of Joker being created in future sequels or an anthology tv series.
Watching these two movies together is like watching a firework go off. The first movie was planting the rocket, lighting the fuse, watching it burn down, watching the rocket shoot off into the sky, and explode in dazzling colours.
The sequel picks up after that. The explosion has already gone off, and all we’re left with are a bunch of sparkles that fall to the ground before sputtering out into nothing.
I think people have a genuine personal gripe with joker very much in a similar way they do with lady gaga in real life. Preemptively putting potential crime on him but in real life it was a batman movie that encouraged a terrible crime.
I am kind of disappointed that the real joker killed Arthur at end because he admired Arthur.
he admired the Joker, not Arthur. thats the whole meaning. as soon soon as Arthur confirmed Joker doesnt exist, Harley breaks up and that guy stabs him
i am disappointed arthur ain't the real joker
@@BadBloonder Definitely another disappointment we were all rooting for Arthur to rise up for how society treated him, and see him become powerful and get revenge on society.
@@Allie_Caanyou're trying to shove different story lines together, no wonder you're down on it. Totally different universe.
@@DonMerwin13 give me a break I haven’t even seen this movie
Really enjoyed it. The fact they didn’t just repeat Joker was great. After the crap that was Romulus it goes to show film makers can be creative. Edit: god I’m sick of things needing to be connected to other films. Let it be its own thing ffs kids. Grow up. Edit edit: not transparent A Shadow! Knock know, who’s there? Arthur. Arthur who…. THATS THE POINT of THAT
Even after 2 edits and a perfect explanation/review of this masterpiece, sadly "They wouldn't get it"
"Jukebox musicals" can be executed well. Across the Universe is an amazing Beatles inspired musical where the songs are not only beautifully sung, but make a lot of sense to the context of the story. However, it seems here they wanted to focus on a particular era of time from where these songs came from (from the selection you mentioned), rather than trying to find songs that related to what the story was. Not sure why that was the case, but I guess the era of which these songs came from was more important than plot for some reason. It wouldn't be hard to do both, but it was either done for a reason, or someone made a "jukebox musical" not knowing how it works.
Paul, did you dye your hair and eyebrows?
musicals usually use the songs to further the story. Best example is Buffy. They had a musical episode where every song advanced the characters. Xander and Anya about the worries of marriage, Spike about loving buffy but refusing to simp for her, Buffy being a masochist who was revived and cant feel anything, Giles seeing himself as a father figure, Tera singing about how Willow is essentially raping her with magic.
Where as musicals like Flash and now Joker, are just there because "lol lets do a song and dance because we can!"
I honestly thought this movie was boring. And the musical numbers aren't even that good.
This film is going to grow on people over time . Watch . Also I think it’s best to watch Joker 1 & 2 back to back for the best experience.
After i heard its gona be a musical, i knew Lady gaga got full control over production and i have to agree with kanye on this one " how the f lady gaga know about camera "
The ending cements that Phillips and Phoenix didn't want to make a sequel in the first place, but hey a dump truck full of money is hard to turn down.
I believe that the ending of Joker: Folie à Deux suggests that Arthur has now completely rejected his true personality after being rejected by Harley, which retraumatized him. This led him to fully embrace the persona of the “true Joker” as we know him. I don’t think Arthur is physically dead, but rather that the Joker within him has finally killed Arthur once and for all. And that is who we see in the batman movie and where the story continues.
So what about the dude that stabbed him and then carves the smile in his face ?!
@@taylorwoah6322 I guess the dude is a representation of his alter ego… because previous in the movie, when he tried to attack Arthur, nobody seemed to react to him, just like when he stabbed him. The dude seems to be an imagination of arthur. The whole movie revolved about his indecisiveness who he really wants to be…
@@karnimani2088this could also link with the dark shadow / dual personality in the opening looney tunes animated scene by foreshadowing it, Arthur is also watching looney tunes on the tv prior to being told he has a visitor. We’re told by the doctors he has a dual personality, the title alludes to it and we can clearly see Arthur is a fantasist from events we’ve seen in the first movie and of course the musical sequences in this. Not to mention that the original ending of the first movie it was planned that he was going to cut the smile into his face too.
Yes my mum and me had the exact same idea, glad other people think this aswell, the guy who “kills” Arthur can be seen in the background of many of his scenes almost like a shadow, a link to the films opening
@@taylorwoah6322 Potentially the inmate who stabbed him wasn't even real. Arthur frequently hallucinates things that aren't real so it could've been his view of his Arthur side completely dying off.
Having the movie be a musical actually fits with the character very well and it could of worked
I watched it in the cinema. I really enjoyed it! Defo worth watching
Me too. I saw it twice already lol.
@@writerartist6306 - I genuinely don't understand the hate. Also, alot of what he said in this video is wrong, such as *SPOILERS* Harley being pregnant. At the end Arthur asks her if she's pregnant and she sings that it's just a show, meaning she wasn't. Also Todd Phillips is done with DC so no Harvey Dent movie.
@@aldente3709 Yep! Agreed. She's a narcissistic compulsive liar. Arthur's Joker was just a projected fantasy for her to get lost in, and just like she lied about being pregnant, she could have lied about her mother committing her, how her dad died, etc. Just like she lied to get Arthur away from his lawyer.
Singing was literally 5-10% of the Movie, Nowhere 50%, that's ridiculous!! Just have fun doing your job right instead of massively misinforming people and counting the singing minutes pls! If u didn't like it then just as most people you missed the point! It's on you then cuz the film is incredibly poetic, artistic and simply brillant!!
So many people who thought Arthur was gonna be the Joker just shows y'all missed the point of the first film. He was never that. He was a disturbed man let down by society spiraling out of control who gets propped up to be a symbol. This movie brings that narrative to its natural conclusion. How are y'all mad? Lolz
For me, Joker: Folie á Deux ending meant the ending of Arthur Fleck, who was tired of being Joker for people, which saw him as a leader and especially for Harley Quinn (Lady Gaga), who was deeply fell in love with him. So, he always wanted someone to take his place, then his dream came true.
Something is MISSED: Who was the visitor hat Arthur was on his way to see in final scene. ?
I don't think there WAS one. It was a ruse to lure Arthur in so the actual Joker at the end could kill him
@@danielbueno251So the cops was working in junction with the inmate that killed off Arthur?
@@mrpussinboots4252 eeeexactly my friend
@@mrpussinboots4252I mean yeah, it makes sense, cops didn't like him at all in the end.
I actually really liked the fact they weren’t original songs in it, they fed more into the fantasy parts and how they were deep-rooted in his relationship with his mother/how he was treated a child as they used to listen to music together etc. Overall all i thought it worked and i really enjoyed it. God im SUCH a maverick 😂🤪
I enjoyed it with a full theatre. Great songs and whimsy, contrasted by the dread and sorrow. The court room scenes are definitely the high point for me.
5:55 how’d he do that effect?
I saw the movie and it's awwsome!! Put yourself in his mind with the music but also the story!!!! I loved it and followed it and fucking loved it,they did his character study to a new level!!!! Everyone who can't see the rebirth then watch again !! I get it and fucking loved it
You got a new subscriber simply because of your opening always sunny reference
Who else noticed the 60s series Easter egg of "B Ward" in the hospital as in "Burt Ward" who played Robin! 😃
Yes … I totally agree. We really need a new Joker and Batman movie and now I am pretty sure Joker 1 was just a copy 😒
You look so much like Barry Keoghan it’s wild
Who looks like Ezra Miller
It's metaphors about Conscious Mind vs Subconscious Mind; Ego vs the real you; polarity; thoughts presented as illusions by the ego; finding real freedom when you face your fears/your Dark side; accepting yourself for who you are good or bad; how when/if you try to change for the better people will hate you -misery likes company. There's more, I'll have to watch it again.
I think this was the beginning of the real Joker and the ending of his father!
I wasn’t frustrated with the musical part because thats the way of insane mind seeing reality and the way that he was puled out from his fantasies to dark reality! Brilliant
I watched the movie yesterday when it came out on digital because people were talking so badly about it that I wanted to save the money on going to the theater. I don't know if I went with my expectations so low or what, but I swear I can't see the bad in this movie. I thought it was GENIUS.
I don't want to be overbearing and say “oh, but you didn't understand” because I can perfectly understand those who didn't like the movie, but I understood the meaning and the layers throughout. Maybe it's me philosophizing beyond the film itself, trying to justify the scenes, but idk, I thought it was great.
Almost all the songs had a reason and few sounded out of tune. Okay, sometimes they went on too long, but most of them made sense with the story they wanted to tell.
And the movie takes a heavy turn after the scene with the guards when they rap... Arthur. It seems that the film breaks Arthur and shows everyone who projected themselves onto the Joker in the first film that he's just some guy projecting himself above what he was and in reality he's an extremely broken and traumatized guy.
I thought the ending was valid, after all, if he didn't die, what would he be? He'd go to jail?! But I thought it was a bit random that the guy killed him. But I think it must be some kind of metaphor that I didn't catch.
Edit: I saw some people saying that it could be heath's joker who killed Arthur and I went back to review the scene and I think it's a valid interpretation.
I thought the ending was better now but I personally would make Arthur stay stuck in the miserable arkham like he was, that way we would see Arthur at the beginning of the movie stuck in a miserable state, being manipulated to rise as something he is not (joker) so that in the end he only ends up in the same state he started, stuck in a miserable state.
Again, I don't want to be overbearing because I understand those who didn't like the movie, but I personally thought the criticism was so explicit that everyone would pick it up
And just to conclude: that part of the trial where they say “you spent less than 2 hours with Arthur and you think you know him” he is an TERRIFIC meta commentary
Sorry. Everyone is really wrong about this movie. This is PURE Joker. Killy Joke. It was great.
The second movie let clear what the first one tried to hint. Arthur Flicks Joker was not the batmans joker.
He is the individual who inspired the idea of the real joker.
Arthur was never a psychopath, but a victim of the cruelty of the world around him. Arthur had a soul. The real joker don't.
So _that's_ how he got those scars.
todd philips version seems like just his personal project that he wanted to do masking it with the Joker character.
They could've done something like primal fear where harleen quinzel is the jonkler's lawyer and get manipulated into freeing him thinking he was an mentality unstable but honest man. Maybe even let her fall in love with him.Then she has a mental breakdown when she realizes she got fooled and freed a mass murdering psychopath turning her into harley quinn.
I like this Arthur could also convince to be harley like in the comics and animated series. Hence the title I think would be more showing too.
You can't do that in the 2020s because a woman is not allowed to be manipulated on TV or film
I'm surprised so many people are so mad he's not the Joker. Arthur Fleck is tragic yeah, but he's also like a total and utter complete loser.
I could NEVER see this version of the Joker having a Batman and actively going up against him. There would he literally no way unless he's going against a Batman equally as lame as his Joker was.
Are we sure this wasn't a M. NIght Shyamalan movie?
The ending is a nice concept. If only it wasn’t a musical, the study of a random crazy guy causing the birth of 3 villains sounds good on paper
Who is the 3rd villain? Harley, 2 face and who?
@@hoodbillionaire6701 Joker. Author Fleck was never joker.
21:14 I don’t remember us doing that lol😅
How do u just skip over the part where he is back in Arkham and abused by the guards and the guards kill the one friend he had in the Arkham. After that his demeanor changed and he no longer wanted to be joker