Finding Code Violations in a 100 Year Old Building!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ส.ค. 2024
- Today we get to explore the historic sights of Massachusetts! Some insane code violations were found like the Article 358 on EMT. Awesome creative ideas for black pipe? to galvanized pipe, to a j-box. We also saw some condenser equipment mounted one what would be the second story. Securing problems,wet locations, open j-boxes... a bunch of insane jackleg work. Keep in mind that another trade person will see your work always. Keep it clean, keep it classy, keep it real UCrew!
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#Electrical #ElectricalCode #CodeTime
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I was involved in a lawsuit where the local authority tried to condemn an old building because it was not "up to (current) code". The judge would have swallowed it if my attorney had not pointed out that there was no requirement to keep current with ever changing code.
We get this on locomotives as well. It becomes a game of, do I remove it now or deal with it later? If I have ample time it gets removed and made pretty and tight again. We find all kinds of messy things. We are not allowed to have house hold wire like Romax, it must be transit quality wire like Exane. We find house wire in locomotives all the time. It isn’t rated for our DC high tension systems. We often have sixty amps on a twelve gauge Exane wire at 72 volts. This is well within transit wire capacity but not house wire.
As far as I understand you only need to update to current code if you are doing a renovation. It likely depends on the extent of renovation such as rec room or addition to the structure. This typically is per local bylaws.
@@normferguson2769 They used it to open the door to the argument that they would not allow an "illegal" use to continue. I was "non-conforming", ie, legally established in thd past but because of zoning changes, no longer conforming. Since they "had no records", they said they could not assume I was initially "legally" established. Since the property was built in 1894 and the town not incorporated until 1949, I wasn't under their jurisdiction.
@@ryandavis7593 Are you working here in the States on small regional lines?
100 year old courthouse closed due to not being up to code. All laws on hold.
if a code is violated in the woods and an inspector doesn't see it, is it still a violation? 🤣Asking for the lowest bidder on a contract.
Nope
🤣
It's kinda like speeding......it's only "illegal" if you get caught.....lol 😆 🤣 😂
It’s still a code violation, it just doesn’t lead to a citation or stop work order.
The difference between an outlaw and a criminal is conviction
You’ve gotta see a 120yr old, steel mill in my city. They have mortared powerhouse breakers in service that you can only find in the smithsonian elsewhere. I’m working on a 440v ungrounded delta system @25hz currently. Old system we are replacing was Westinghouse gear dated 1907-1909.
sick
Sounds pretty cool
George Westinghouse was still alive at that time. Dang.
Ummmm, given that the NEC has changed about 30 times in the last 40 years, the real challenge would be not finding a "code violation".
Updates to the NEC "generally" occur every three years. The code will always be complex and will continue to get more complex over the years in response to changing technologies, improvements in understanding the behaviors of electricity, and regulatory requirements. It is a running battle between the folks that write or modify the code to be as concise, yet informative/educational as possible so that a solid understanding of the code can be gained over the years of apprenticeship and journeyman work. It is not necessary to KNOW everything in the code to do a good, safe job. You do have to know how to look things up in order to get the proper answer. (Retired oilfield instrumentation/electrical technician)
@@ejohnson2720 And? While your comment is basically true, (we can't forget the local code "improvements ") my comment stands. The challenge would be to not find a code violation. 40 years commercial/industrial/Marine Electrician here. Of course I exaggerated the NEC amount of changes, but trust me, changing local codes make up the difference.
While some codes are good, the vast majority are just money makers and graft takers. The NEC is a complete joke.
@@ejohnson2720 90.2(B) is basically the grandfather clause if it was code compliant at one point it's deemed to be code compliant now unless you touch it then it needs to be brought up to prevent code.
It's only a code violation now if it was in violation originally.
The older rigid pipe that you saw, going into the “open“ junction box. The bolted together flanges, are “threadless couplings and connectors” they pre-date EMT, and for sometime, certain manufacturers made threadless couplings and connectors, that resemble those that are still used on sprinkler piping today.
Thank you Sir! 😃
NEC 314.25 requires that covers shall be installed after completed installations.
Nailed it. This is the answer. Thank you!
Nails would be a code violation as 314.25 says to use machine screws
Screws used for the purpose of attaching covers, or other equipment, to the box shall be either machine screws matching the thread gauge or size that is integral to the box or shall be in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.😎
@@engrpiman bubble machine screws and definitely not drywall screws I've seen this many a Time!
What if they are technically the installation has not been completed, which what look like in this case..
@@keithw846 if there's an electrical inspection signed off from when the visit was installed, then it would be considered completed
Keep doing these types of videos, walking through buildings and pointing out and talking about strange electrical work that's been done
Surprising how much strange electrical work you will find in factories. Wow is all I can say.
Yes! More videos like this with Code book time haha loving the videos
I like that he requests people to cite.. too many internet warriors out there acting like "this is the way because I just know it is!"
I like it because it helps us as an industry
I quote all the references
During my apprenticeship, we had to give the citation on every Code exam and quiz for the answer to be right. If you can't cite Code, you need to hang your tools up and go be a carpenter instead.
@@alexpopescu7312 Even carpenters have to follow the National Building Code. 🤣
Internet warriors? This is endemic to the trade as a whole, especially old timers been doing shit the same way since the 80s--incorrectly.
I think that “hose bib” might actually a compressed air line that someone used a stop and waste valve on. It’s pretty common in commercial buildings to see equipment requiring large electrical hookups like that also needing compressed air, vacuum, gas or other utilities.
True I was thinking that was possibly an airline as well
I think you're right, judging from the lack of rust on the threads.
Beyond that... it's /not/ a hose bib. It's a threaded elbow with nothing screwed into one side.
That there be a female threaded hole. Hose bibs are male ordeals.
I have to agree that it is an air line, but cannot be functional. Air lines in many industrial and government facilities require drip legs at equipment and air devices with minimum of threaded caps or plugs for draining condensation during maintenance. Without the plug or cap, the line cannot be functional to hold pressurized air. Note: a gate valve in no longer acceptable for air lines.
@@c.s.rollison5821 they may require that now but did they 100 + years ago?
I worked for a company that had a large mill complex in MA. When we did some major renovations it was amazing how many layers of abandoned in place wiring and plumbing there was. We spent a massive amount of time just trying to figure out what needed to be re-fed and what could be just torn out.
Oof. Everything. Just start fresh.
Not an electrician, but you info is invaluable. I'm head of maintenance and grounds of a school (pre 1960 build) and your info Is very valuable and informative to my daily needs
This is fantastic. I love all your code discussions. Thank you so much. I’m learning to be an electrician right now, and this is incredibly valuable!
your better off not following this guy then
110.12 (A) Unused Openings: Unused cable or raceway openings in boxes, raceways, auxiliary gutters, cabinets, cutout
boxes, meter socket enclosures, equipment cases, or housings shall be effectively closed to afford protection
substantially equivalent to the wall of the equipment. Where metallic plugs or plates are used with nonmetallic
enclosures, they shall be recessed at least 6 mm (¼ in.) from the outer surface of the enclosure
What do you guys think?
That's only talking about that knock outs have to be capped off if they aren't in use.
No it specifically calls out boxes, etc,etal
Sounds like that's the code we're looking for. It seems to be saying that if the opening is unused, meaning it isn't an intentional design of the equipment, it needs to be closed.
@@br00cezx yes I would concur and also it look like this makes sense anyways if someone could put a finger or something conductive or anyting else into an opening and contact anyting live or otherwise.
Just makes sense in terms of safety at least.
Same goes for a fan guard on something and not being able to stick a finger through it!
Years ago that was never a concern.
Also the same with properly wired light fixtures the other screw spiritual being on the neutral side of the circuit.
But that kind of goes out the window when someone Miss wires a receptacle which urinary run acrost hot neutral.
Especially an old wiring that may have been let's just say tinkered with overtime.
Even harks back to Edison base fuses.
With the screw shelving the load side of the circuit!
Anyone out there remember the old receptacles in Old homes perhaps in show Windows back in the day as well!
I have seen many a historical home and other buildings.
And the horror once that was an outdoor receptacle with the screw-on cap connected by what looks like a tub stopper or light switch pull chain to the cover plate to keep it from being lost.
To my surprise when I opened it I was thinking perhaps telephone or perhaps an old outdoor receptacle single receptacle of course.
Surprise screw shell Edison lamp socket it was still live to that day.
I was checking things out for somebody and doing some work.
When I noticed this and they said oh yeah I meant to ask you what that is.
Needless to say the next time I was down there.
Made sure it was no longer live.
And was cover was replaced with a blank plate as well!
Also all the associated wiring around that area that apparently was used for other things can't remember what all was there the wiring was still there but had been long-ago disconnected.
Then at one time had fed a garage and and the yard light.
Even though the wiring was still there it was dead.
Not to mention that was when those cases where are there was a three-way switch and I believe possibly a four-way but on that installation is a bit foggy too long ago.
But definitely was what form of what one would refer to as Charter wiring.
To save number of wires between garage and house all overhead wiring some of which was still ran on glass insulators I do believe this was a farm can't remember.
They also had similar things going to outbuildings but in some cases even worse.
Most of that was not working or have been disconnected but somewhat still working and live.
Also there was switches for the electric fence everywhere around the property I hate to ask about voltage drop but considering a few amps Max.
And there was more than one electric fence charger for the property.
And all the switches did have a pilot light as well.
Anyone switch could turn off the electric fence at any location.
And a few of these were actually Outdoors and a jerry-rig what I call switch shelter since not design for outdoor use never work but still worked surprisingly.
Also the power was distributed from the barn to the house and a few other places.
And multiple switches four other buildings in other buildings.
And even a switch at the end of the driveway and garage to turn off the multiple lights and also the place with wired to be able to have some light turned on Elsewhere on specific fixtures and receptacles.
What seemed like miles of wire just for things like this.
Definitely done before there would be a low voltage switching readily available!
Also was a lot of low-voltage ran the same way as power wiring for signaling and perhaps intercom or interphone of some sort.
This was ran along the same poles and right next to above and below and beside power wiring.
And even bear wire electric fence feeders going to isolated sections offense bright intermixed with the rest.
Talk about ouch!
And that's just in one place don't even get me started about radiant heat for Rover#
One thing I could not figure out that first where this switch went at said to turn on when the lowest certain number degrees and a pilot light.
Although there were others labeled for what said freeze control.
Turns out that cable went underground form one of the poles.
And went to a dog house.
That been long since abandoned there's a new one so farmdog was A-OK.
But I started digging it and hit metal inside that dog house.
Low and behold 2 ceramic light sockets wired in series.
Equipped with a 100-watt bulb in each.
This was meant to keep a farm dog warm in the winter time at one time.
Heard about that once in a book somewhere never thought I'd see it in practice.
And there were some more things done it in the pump house and Spring House as well few other places where there's water.
And even we're animals need water there were faucets that were kept warm enough to keep from freezing in a similar manner.
Pretty sure this place was over a hundred years old if not more.
The mix about just every type of wiring you can imagine including some which definitely went back to the time of Edison there were remnants of the Edison DC system there!
So probably the one place I've seen the most of anything like this in one place not surprisingly what people see sometimes but would never even imagine!
Also note I am not an electrician just someone that knows what they're doing and knows how to take care of things and keep things safe and yet able to do things to code.
Which stem from being self-taught!
This came very early for me at 4 and 5 I was rewiring lamps!
I like how in this vid, CODE TIME never ended 😂 thanks Dustin, excellent vid as always!
In regards to the "upside down barn light" with the two LB conduit bodies and the offset nipple: The barn light looks like an alarm strobe light for who knows what. It looks to me like the installer didn't want to have to bore a new hole for the strobe wiring, so they used the conduit for the light. In order to exit the light enclosure, they removed the the EE/motion detector, ran the conduit to the strobe enclosure, and remounted the EE/motion detector on the strobe enclosure. Yes, it's a ridiculous amount of work to avoid punching through the brick, but if you don't have the tools to do it, you figure something out.
The next question I have is this: presumably low voltage signal wire to the strobe in a raceway with 120VAC? That's gotta be a violation, Right?
Based on the (barely visible) model information on the sticker, the beacon appears to be a strobing 40W halogen that operates on 120v AC. Still, assuming whatever is feeding the signal beacon and the wallpack are on separate circiuts, would it be kosher to have the conductors running in the same conduit? Just a handyperson here... Non-trade, definitely not an electrician.
Its only ok if the lv wiring is rated 600v... but still kinda hacky
@@marcberm it may be that that motion detector might be tied into some sort of alarm system and also the system that is tied to that strobe theoretically since there's already that wall pack fixture that would provide lighting that would be typically Dusk to Dawn unless controlled otherwise timer or otherwise and would probably be typically high pressure sodium or mercury vapor unless more modern fixture but it doesn't look like it is!
So might explain both the motion detector and the strobe fixture!
And also you know how outdoor lights are not supposed to be tied into emergency systems.
I've seen this done and even an emergency exit light typically LED mounted close to exit Outdoors.
Although I could be confusing this with an exterior light but a similar design.
May not even be low-voltage but large voltage very similar to emergency light low voltage remote head.
Almost all of which have been installed on appropriate weatherproof junction boxes and proper plates!
Have also seen this next to another outdoor light in certain locations so I'm suspecting it's a backup or an emergency light of some sort.
Even not a doorway!
So the question is out there if someone were to know please give a heads up.
And I do know for a fact that one Hospital the outdoor light at some of the entrances only came on if the generator was running what someone told me it was tied into life safety for some reason!
Which apparently is a code violation at least it should be!
Since usually that would not be permitted unless of course it was deliberate perhaps egress or entrance?
Also I did once see some exterior lights on the old DC 120-volt emergency lighting circuits.
At least twice.
And seeing a switch double pole double throw with off.
With a similar setup.
That was very sketchy to say the least.
Could lead to big issues if something goes wrong or is improperly repaired I'd say just abandon it!
Also old ungrounded receptacle below a toilet and new receptacles properly installed elsewhere in a household bathroom.
Note the bathroom was originally a bedroom.
And had been converted to full-on new accessible!
And also was a laundry room.
Have plans to change that cover to a blank cover sense not feasible to rewire!
Besides just asking for trouble with that receptacle in the first place!
My dude, Dustin! You just made that code about the AC disconnecting means make so much sense! Only the person about to service the equipment needs to have a readily accessible means of disconnect without having to enter the home. Wich makes PERFECT sense now lmao. Apparently I was today years old
My dad worked in a power plant that was built in the 1930's. He was telling me that the internal electric service was ancient. In the late 1980's the plant was rewired for lights ECT and brought up to code. It was a major refit.
I worked for an electric utility back in the 80's that had all sorts of ancient live-front switchboards that were still in operation. And not just one or two either.
@@tgmct if you think that's weird.
You should have seen what we call the catacombs beneath my High School.
Straight up miniature railroad tracks.
What look like full-on DC utilities and Power Plant.
Perhaps converter station of some sort.
But really odd voltages that you never see.
It was thought that this was left over from the Old Trolley system.
Or something else neobond of DC power.
However everything was still active.
Literally down to the Mercury Arc rectifiers there's also rotary converters!
And also battery rooms with modern batteries.
Also doors that would only open from one side down corridors.
Literally open wiring on insulators in some cases not even insulated but heavy cables.
Some of this looks like it was over a hundred years old but other modern equipment right next to it keeping the system going for an unknown reason.
Something really weird going on no one has figured out to this day what it was for.
There are no Subways or any sort of Transportation or anything that would need anything like that in the area.
And there was also 120 volts DC 220 DC and other odd voltages.
A never-was wobbly thing would fire up on fire out what the current in more stuff would come on line.
When the people that gave me a tour of the Catacombs again as we called it.
Said you know that there's times when the lights just I'm here at the school bit that's when that is occurring that at certain times more of the equipment comes online down there!
No clue as to what this would be.
Barely there was also an underground substation.
I had checked there is nothing on a map nor anyone knows about this!
And yes there were backup equipment for generating power in that area further down the way.
Most of which was for DC power which is just what the!
It has been theorized possibly something military otherwise very secretive.
I do know this was a hotspot During certain years.
So it makes sense with the underground transportation system what that something was still going on.
This is like some sort of Narrow Gauge electric Railway.
Probably meant to move some sort of cargo.
These doors between sections seem to be weatherproof and almost like blast doors or something like that.
And since no one or nothing with on the map makes you wonder.
Also pretty weird stuff around that place an unsuspecting areas like in the old Towers in such where there was louvers.
Such as what look like signal lights and the colored filters and mechanical things to go with that.
To the point of boxes in those sections having civil defense markings makes you wonder.
Also all those areas were accessible from elsewhere in the catacombs as well but yet mostly not from inside the building.
This is entirely true not making this up but wow any thoughts??
@@aaronbrandenburg2441 as your comment went along it became harder and harder to follow or understand.... and I just stopped trying to read it and understand.
@@aaronbrandenburg2441 Were you ever able to learn anything more? Time to interview old, retired staff who graduated back in the '50s.
Ok I live in MA and can tell you first hand that this is how everything is wired up here. Most things up here are, like you said very old. Almost everything you showed in this video can be seen in any super market, office building, doctors office, or apartment complex in Suffolk co. I simply can not tell you how many times I have stepped off an elevator or escalator or rotating door that was installed in the late 1800's and been totally frightened by whatever I see above me or below me. There is shit dangling and falling out of everywhere. Everything is nailed (1890's spike) into brick or rock and nothing is grounded, and it is 100% as fubar as it looked while you walked through. I can guarantee that every time you said to yourself "there's no way that's still being used/hooked up/working etc" it definitely was, and more than likely tied into something life saving like smoke or fire or sprinklers. That's just the way it's done up here I guess. It's all held together with good thoughts and nylon tape.
Same will be said about the current technology in 100 years. If it will survive
Hahaha when he said "idk if it was live or not"
I was like oh, that's totally live, if it weren't someone would have pulled the copper for scrap
I'm an aircraft mechanic and have to deal with regulations and maintenance publications. I'm also a writer for many years. After reading enough, you can tell where certain technical writing teams, or individuals, start and stop within a chapter, based on their writing style. If you read enough of the same manual, you can tell the different writing styles of the different people writing, even though it's supposed to be technical bulletproof writing. The FAA likes to act like all of our manuals are bulletproof and ironclad but there's so many things that are unanswered or vague. It comes down to different styles of writing and different focuses on the writing and whether or not the writer took good classes in English and logic and whatnot. It's very interesting actually.
"Functions as installed" is a good phrase to use in inspections past its original installation. New construction and remodels have to meet code requirements at the rough, partial, final. Just goes to show that that blank on a 1900 jbox doesn't have to stay fixed after the final.
I'm currently in the process of replacing the wiring in a 110 year old house. There was still some original knob and tube powering a bunch of lights, one circuit with a 20A breaker on #14 wire feeding literally half the house, central AC and dryer wired to the same breaker (and the terminals were loose), a piece of romex (not UF) buried right in the ground to feed the garage, grounding wire went outside and was stuffed into the ground a few inches with no rod, etc. Fortunately the panel was replaced at some point with a 100A Square D QO unit that's in perfect shape, so at least I don't have to replace that too.
Man that's crazy! Might want to retire that (tortured) 20A breaker!
wait . . . exposed romex burried in the dirt? what the actual eff!
@@arnoldduran4953 Yes, to my knowledge it is exposed. A piece of #14 romex goes through a hole in the basement wall without conduit, and comes up in a bit of gray PVC outside the garage. It’s been there for a long time (it’s just NM, not NM-B) and works for now, but will definitely get replaced with UF after I finish rewiring the house.
@@yeliab814 The circuit was in such bad shape it could barely power a tiny 5000 BTU A/C in an upstairs bedroom (less than 500w), and I ended up using a #14 extension cord to get power. The breaker didn’t trip and the circuit wasn’t overloaded (the only other things running were a couple LED lights), but the voltage sagged to under 100v running the A/C.
@@Frog-ko6uu wow . thank goodness you:
1) have discovered all of this ,
2) know what you've doing,
3) are in a position to correct things and have a plan to do so,
4) know how to safely workaround things in the meantime.
Just think of all the terrible situations like this that are out there - with the owners completely oblivious. This is reason enough to follow and support this channel , just to gain the necessary electrical knowledge to know how to protect your own property and family.
Wishing you good luck with the remediation / upgrade plans, and thanks for sharing !
i once found a old building with 480 volt feeder in clay pipe the clay pipe had well rounded bends like it was made for wiring.
i also have found EMT conduit brazed together where most would use connectors.
i also noted that the whole run used prebent EMT and i believe was installed by a non electrician building owner.
That clay pipe was electrical conduit from the Roman times.
You have most definitely earned my subscription, as I’m currently in trade school and have been following you for the past year or two. I especially love the code times you make it so animated and illustrated that it’s very easy to comprehend, sometimes just reading the code book doesn’t stick in my brain but I’ve definitely been more comfortable after seeing a lot of your videos. Keep it up I appreciate it 👍🏽
That's great to hear, thanks for watching and subscribing. Good luck in school!
All that should’ve really been said about those wall fixtures on the exterior brick wall is, “This was done by someone who is familiar with a wide range of electrical materials. Certainly also on PCP when these were installed. Next topic.”
11:45 they installed an inductor with 6 turns to provide heated water... yeah it was intentional ... yeah, yeah, that's the ticket. Lol
I live in a building that will be 100 next year. There are 14 sockets in my apartment. Six have leaking current between neutral and ground when there is no load on them. Two have no ground at all. Three are wired in reverse. That leaves three of 14 that are wired correctly, at least according to the multimeter. I haven't pulled them.
Nice to see someone actually dealing with the vaque nature of the codes
I'd love to follow you on your other platforms. There's just the minor inconvenience of hating social media and everything they cause.
TH-cam is social media! You can't escape it wa ha ha ha!
I know 😞. But I feel less manipulated. Albeit TH-cam censorship is unbearable.
@@Makitafan I had to rib you a little. All hail the algorithm lol.
Lived in a 200 year old house in MA my whole life and there's more code violations than I can imagine counting
I love that you cite the NEC, it's interesting to compare the CEC with the NEC
I’m a lighting consultant designing lighting layouts for casinos, hotels and hospitality in in general. I too look at everything in nearly every building I enter to not just criticize but try to learn how someone did things differently. If you work long enough in any industry you realize there are multiple ways of doing things to code and correctly as well as different looks. Every tradesman and designer has a bit of an artist in them so not every job looks the same nor should it.
I wish the guys who did our building had some artistic talent. It is painful to look at. To code but painful.
What you say is true... Some experienced journeymen will debate over or do things entirely different, yet, in both cases, it's up to code and installed in a clean workman-like manner. Just as with the two LB conduit bodies (in the video), another electrician might use an LR and an LL, another might use a short length of seal-tite.
I did some electrical work on my house and the inspector that came over was one I had never met. He was about 5 min into the inspection and said, "You must work for 'Boss name' don't you". Everyone has their own style.
There's a 100 year old building thats still in business, running 3 Phase machines and its crazy . I've been preparing for equipmemt installation and old wiring removal. It's nuts
But that giant junction box, I've seen those before.
So crazy to come across your video. I work in one of those mills that you were outside of and used to live inside the mill that has all the open j-boxes. Mill life in western mass is something unique. Most of these mills used to run on a 600v delta configuration, but they have been upgraded to more modern 480 or 208/220 3 phase systems. Good luck on working in the area.
4:09 Basically says "I'm looking for anything that they might eventually need ME TO FIX" lol
I get it brother!
U make me laugh and love the videos, u do a great job explaining stuff and specially showing people we’re in the code book it specifies what is required .Thank you
My home was built in the 1880's before there was power, running water, or any other utilities in the area. It was first retrofitted for electric in 1912 or so. I have had a new breaker box installed as the old one was from the 1930's and have redone some of the lines, but it is a trip to open a wall and find connections that are straight out of history books.
I bet they are still in good condition.There was no chinese counterfeit shit in those days.
@@mernok2001 I wish that was the case, but tarpaper insulation over copper wire does not do all that well in 140f attic for over 100 years. Do have a few pieces I have saved since they are marked as having bin made in the Edison plant.
That big pipe and Box you touched o at about the 6 min mark seems to be from the old pneumatic messaging system. The whole system ran of large diameter pipe with a vacuum pulling air in a loop. what ever needed to be sent would be put in a canister and inserted into the box, once the box was closed the air pressure and flow would move the canister to it's destination. I would have followed that pipe to the other end. NYC had one of the largest system in Manhattan, the USPS took advantage of it to deliver mail to tons of offices in sky scrapers.
It's not a pneumatic message tube. The 90s are way too tight, the box is not air tight in any way and is too high up on the wall and would not be on the exterior anyhow. The other end of the tubing is just floating open at the end of the building, seen at around 6:30. It's almost certainly for electrical, but I can't imaging what.
Content really coming together strong man
At 6:50, Looks like the fitters were doing electrical work back then too!
This reminds me of a time I did work at a buddy's house who owned an Irrigation installation and service business. He is also an electrical engineer by trade. Most of his electrical work was done using sprinkler PVC and the like fittings....Guess you made do with what you got!
I do not do electrical for a living, but I did rewire a 125 year old house last year.
I pulled out 5 different generations of knob and tube.... Not to mention the different generations of romex-y stuff, almost exclusively without ground conductors. lol
Now everything is actually up to code and the house has more than a single receptacle pair per bedroom (at ~4' off the floor!!) among many, many, many other things.
You'd have enjoyed the walk-through of various types of knob/tube.
PS: I only found a little stretch of aluminum K&T wire, and once the kitchen/laundry is redone, there will definitely be NO K&T left in the house. Given my daughter is living there? I'll be happy with that!
The old mill/factory buildings here in Massachusetts and Rhode Island are like that. That looked like Lowell, MA to me!
I think I recognize that work with the mini splits. It's not just the old buildings, we rent in a building built in the early '80s the nail salon previously hung all their wire with what I call bento box string. Outlets wired with extension cords. Jboxes hanging from coat hangers.
This is just the natural progression of race to the bottom. Here in north Texas you have plumbers inspecting electrical, framing ect. Electricians inspecting plumbing, framing, concrete ect. Actually worked in city hall building ,above inspection department and found during a remodel 20 years ago. Whoever, used black for the neutral on 277v. circuits. If you know you can get away with that in a city building. Imagine what they are doing to average customers.
Loved this series. Thanks for all you do!
Beach town here, lots of flood plane issues. The discos for AC units or similar are within reach on the means of access when higher than standing mount for us, in other words, reached from the top of the ladder or platform being used to work on the raised equipment.
In my experience with 100+ year old buildings, the knob and tube wiring was the best installed circuits!
My God there are alot of hacks up here in Mass.
Hey there, I’ve seen the similar bolted piping for 4.5kv lines at the Dominio Sugar plant in Baltimore, MD. The building started construction in 1919 and was opened in 1922. It originally had coal power plants, then fuel oil boilers and now natural gas boilers. The entire powerhouse is still very much all original with it slowly being upgraded to modern code over the past ten plus year’s. These feeder lines lines come from the switchboards to the load centers and power transformers at the other buildings within the plant. If you wish to visit them, they will more than likely have the plant open for tours their centennial year during 2022.
I really appreciate the real world examples. It helps a lot!
My favorite are the j-box covers “provided” by leaving them on top of the drop ceiling tiles. Love those little ninja stars flying at my head when I have to access a ceiling. 🙄😡
Just because a box is outstanding doesn't always mean wet location. It could be damp due to the size of the over hang and distance from the edge.
Those disconnects are best places for those applications, it keeps random people from messing with them and Turing it off on someone in the office/apartment.
This is absolutely correct. This is not a wet location. There is a roofed exterior in the reflection of the window and the overall shadowing of light reflection leads me to believe this is not an exposed exterior which therefore means a wet location code infraction does not apply here due to it being a damp location. Sorry buddy love your channel but you are mistaken on this being a code violation.
*Massachusetts resident here in my mothers home there was a breaker that was for a water heater yet ours is 100% gas. when I found where the breaker leads to it was literally just a cut off wire. no wire nut, no junction box just a 4 conductor wire freshly cut off.
VERY GOOD VIDEO YOU KEEP ME WELL INFORMED IM A ELECTRICIAN HERE IN NYC. THAT WALK THRU WAS CRAZY I LOVED HOW YOU NOTICED ALL THOSE VIOLATIONS KEEP UP GOOD WORK N KEEP VIDEOS COMING. NOW YOU HAVE ME MEMORIZING ALL THE CODES YOU REFER TO WHEN YOU HIT THE BOOK. THANKS AGAIN
Made me chuckle imagining an electrician installing a j-box and just chucking the cover out a window like a frisby without any care for where it goes. Just YEET that cover and let the world deal with it.
I do property condition assessments as part of my job and it’s always great to see examples of problematic electrical work. Especially since my expertise is more specialized in HVAC and I’m expected to discuss a wide range of building systems such as mechanical, electrical, plumbing, fire protection, elevators, security systems, etc.
To keep the mini splits on the building and not stolen the units and disconnects are up high where you need a ladder for access.(thief protection).
I recently had an ac unit mounted like your example. It was at a site vandalized a lot. This kept it out of harms way.
That is SICK! a waterline over a receptacle!
Love these videos maybe set up a way we can send you viewer finds in the wild
Not to trash the owner but to see how crazy things can get in the wild
Hey Dustin,
Great video as always, keep them coming 😊
Looking at the AC units and disconnects on the outside wall, I think they come under Article 404 Switches, 404.8 Accessibility and Grouping in particular.
It states “All switches and circuit breakers used as switches shall be located so that they may be operated from a readily accessible place. They shall be installed such that the center of the grip of the operating handle of the switch or circuit breaker, when in its highest position, is not more than 2.0 m (6 ft 7 in.) above the floor or working platform”
Exception No. 2: Switches and circuit breakers installed adjacent to motors, appliances, or other equipment that they supply shall be permitted to be located higher than 2.0 m (6ft 7 in.) and be accessible by portable means”
That’s in NEC 2017 that I’m looking at, not certain if it’s changed article number location in NEC 2020.
Can’t wait for the next installment 😊
Pretty sure exception #2 includes this disconnect. So it’s indeed legal.
Makes sens as of your accessing the AC, you’re in some kind of scissor lift or something so as long as it’s close to the AC it’s accessible. And there’s still the breaker if it needs to be turned off without having a scissor lift.
My instructor literally knows the whole code book in his brain.. it’s crazy. He’s been an electrician for over 60 years I’m lucky to have him teaching me, some crazy stories of him finding loop holes in the code to save like 90k on projects and even getting codes added to the code book lol!
im a licensed electrician in mass i did alot of work in building in boston alot of old stuff that they dont teach you how to deal with in the book so some time you gotta do the best you can for what you got
The specificity of the box cover code reading is one of those code issues that will usually began a joyous and interesting debate among Mike Holt and his guest Sparkys and engineers... lol I know one thing... if those circuits are live, those exposed splices won't usually pass inspection. So, some things are worth challenging an electrical inspector, but not that. IJS Again... great commentary...
I sold electrical products to the papermills in SC. Was always amazed how much open energized bus was in the Mills. I almost got hit with 4160 in a control room. Open energized bus was right besides a telephone. Was in the phone talking to my office and the electrician tried at me not to move and pointed out I was a few inches from getting electrocuted by a exposed energized bus. Scary shit.....
You should’ve seen my house before I changed everything. A home owner sometime in the mid 90’s ran romex onto knob and tube without junction boxes and in some cases didn’t even use their shorty electrical tape tactic you see elsewhere in the crawlspaces. After a good wind one night, nothing upstairs worked, nothing above your head downstairs worked and ground floor plugs would randomly cut out under moderate loads. After diving further into it I found that only 3 of 9 fuses were actually being used. Laundry and heater were the only 2 separate. Pulled permits. Pulled new wire. Dropped 200 amps into a 115 year old house. Inspector never second guessed my work.
Not to mention the 14guage wire I found powering multiple 30 amp 220v receptacles
I know I'm late to this party but i believe those flanges were for the rigid pipe is what they did before 3 piece unions. Can't spin on the rigid 90 so weld on a flange and bolt together.
At 6:53 , that's what we in the trades call a glory hole
That’s definitely a glory hole
4:09 I've been doing drafting for home renovations and new construction for the better part of the last 2 decades, I can't walk into a house without sizing it up and looking at how I would change it to make it flow better, so I totally get where you are coming from.
Right after I bought this place I met the guy who'd wired it. This is an 1850s house. He said he put one outlet in each room and that was more than enough "because no one owned anything that plugged in."
I was on a job today and I wish I could post the picture, but, this specific job was us fixing some sub panel issues.
Well it turns out the issue was the service wire feeding the sub was run above ground with no protection across the drive way and connected to another run of service wire outside the house with only duct tape. Then it ran inside the house and inside the panel it was held into the lugs with 6 drywall screws.
I can't put into word how ridiculous everything was.
Did they at least use metal lath screws?
The mess of connections was just laying on the ground and it went into the house thru a 4 inch hole sealed by sprayfoam and then into the bottom of the panel which was about 18 inches off the ground.
I recognize the pipe as being used for hydraulic as I used to operate a press to make 50 pounds salt blocks. It was the same type of pipe and fittings and was from equipment that was pre WWII. Looks like they salvaged the pipe to get some that was large enough.
I wouldn't be surprised if the vertical section on the corner of the building end used to have a weatherhead and a service drop coming off of it.
@@LegoTux new subscriber to your Channel just now!
I relocated a meter panel that I had installed 2 years prior. I thought I could save a few bucks if I could pull out the ground rod that I had driven in 10' in the original installation. I got the bright idea that I could pinch the rod with 2 pipe wrenches and wiggle the rod out. I set it all up, braced myself and gave the rod a pull. It came out of the ground and the whole thing, wrenches and all hit me in the chin. The rod was only about 18" long and had rotted into a long thin taper, tapering down to a thin spike. Damn...was there a bad connection on the power company side?
😲
Haha im sure there was. I will tell you right now Lineman do not know or have to follow any electrical code in most cities. They use their own spec for services and will fix someones outage by any means necessary.
Damn that sucks. Did you contact the power company?
Speaking as a guy that was wiggled out a lot of ground rods.. Typically I get more success wiggling as I pull than wiggling first and trying to pull it all at once.
Aslo depending on how far you are from the substation, there may be up 5V between the service nuetral and the earth ground. Though your discovery could just be aggressive soil chemistry as well.
It makes sense that the disconnect would be required to be next to the equipment and not somewhere else. Imagine climbing up a ladder only to find that the disconnect is not near the equipment, and then having to figure out where the disconnect actually is. Or worse, they thought it was disconnected elsewhere and it wasn't and they start working on it. So even though a person's first thought might be that it needs to be on the ground level, the code is right in requiring it to be next to the unit itself.
Why did i watch this i am neither a electrician nor do I live in the united states.
Speaks for the high quality of the video production and interesting storytelling
Thanks for your knowledge, I'm learning a lot.
Great videos, you could do this kind of video in New Orleans too. I saw extension cords stapled on exterior walls and more!
Now one thing about boxes having to have covers in place on them. Different municipalities may have it in their building codes for that area that requires that covers be in place on all boxes.
I work in a lot of old houses. Everyday I think "Wow, it had to be really tough being an electrician back in the day. Just imagine no power tools, hand drilling everything, all wires the same color. When I have the time I like trouble shooting in places with all the same color wires for some reason..
And some people think that electricians back in the day were idiots.They were not,they simply didnt have modern tools that we take for granted these days.
and the wire comes out of this junction box and loopty loops and goes over to this junction box.... LOL! such a regular sight in old buildings!
I think the boxes should be closed, I was on a dark attic, without a flashlight and before entering I saw what I thought was the switch box, and there was no switch, just twisted wires without wire nuts or tape, shocking experience. So in my mind I added secured and closed to provided covers. The code is the minimum, we can always make it more safe withing reason.
Electrical conduit was once generally japanned in the manner of gas pipes, rather than galvanized. Boxes, both stamped steel and malleable iron, were also generally Japanned rather than galvanized.
Have you ever run in to surface raceway made of wood? How about panel boards or cut-out boxes made of wood?
A typical electric service panel at the beginning of the last century would consist of a wooden cupboard, perhaps lined with asbestos paper, including live bar knife switches, and fuse cut outs, either made of slate or porcelain, using either plug, cartridge, or link fuses (link fuses are just a bit of lead wire of a specific gauge connected between two binding posts)
The use of wood for these (and other purposes) was very common before 1910. In the 1912 iteration of the code, however, although wood raceway was not prohibited, all junctions, splice boxes, tee taps, switch bases, and other fittings where the insulation of cables was interrupted were required to be made of “noncombustible nonabsorbtive insulating material”. Initially this was of course universally electrical porcelain, but by the late ‘teens “composition” (a shellac based thermoplastic material similar to that used for talking machine records) or Bakelite and Condensite products were deemed suitable.
It was, I believe, a late 1930s iteration of the Code which finally prohibited wood raceway.
Redid my basement Laundry and for the life of me could not find the breaker for the Washing Machine and Utility Pump, until for the hell of it I flipped the one for the Fridge. Yup tied in to the Fridge. WTF!
Love going through the code book with ya ... Good vid ...
Canadian code is a lot different. Also inspectors here will make you bring everything up to code. You add a breaker to an old panel, you make sure that panel is to code.
Cool adventure. My house was built in 63, wiring was pretty old, sketchy, scarry when I got it, in 83. Old Fed. Pacific fuse box, cloth covered 2 wire, no ground. The odd thing is, been a tree guy here 31 yrs, no National Tree Code, you just say you're a tree guy, and get started. Some days can be pretty technical, but not like wiring a factory, machine shop, plant, or shopping center.
The bolt together pipe is likely water or steam pipe. Old electric used to not have its own pipe/tubes and used either water or steam. I'm not an electrician (I want to get my license even though I don't work in the field though do all the maintenance at work and for my employer), I learned from my grandfather who passed away a few years ago, but have been listening to modern and updated code and always learning. That's one thing I had learned though.
It can get interesting in old buildings. My house was built in the 1890s, and has three generations of wiring. Some is knob and tube, some is from the 1950's, and some is from the 1990's.
the windows as shown at 1:58 were vinyl or aluminum single hung, complete with screens and for sure operational, unless screwed shut on purpose.
probably lazy "sparky" day, they installed the one meter then went whoops. unless those were boarded/siding covered windows and they replaced after the conduit and meters were placed, really hard to say in something that age, add in the silliness of building trades and how some people miss-plan rehabs.
It’s kind of funny because you’re always looking at electricity stuff and I’m also always looking at safety stuff and electrician stuff
Open jbs, simple probable answer is laziness... you mentioned the building is under renovations for rentals. The sparky is currently tracing ccts and since they are perhaps on the ceiling and inaccessable to the customer without ladders, they left all the jbs open until the next time they're on site...
Living in a 100 yr old house I can tell you that every window is a free willed entity. A window that has never opened for you will decide one day that it wants to be free and will start rattleing at 3am when a bat farts and one that has reliablily opened with one finger for years now needs a hydrulic jack to open and the one that is hidden behind some previous asshats modification will now let the monsoon in.
Seeing that massive tome containing "The Code", I'm not surprised that there will be violations of the more obscure requirements. In states that allow homeowners to do their own electric work, if one understands the basics of electricity and common sense is used, the work is usually safe.
I am working on house in Long Beach which is 150 years old, I am working with cermatic which owner wants to keep it stock old school.. learning every day.. Downey California
That’s awesome I bet there’s a lot there to teach you the history of the trade! My folks live in a 100 year old home. Blows my mind anytime they open a wall to see all the years of wiring methods.
I have to share a Story here of not being up to Code. Since this happened in Germany and im not exactly familiar wit the US terminology it might be off in some places, but i try to translate as good as i can.
Basically i was doing a Revision(Check of the Installation) of the Outdoor Lights of a Car Logistics Center, and wanted to switch on some Lights to verify if they still worked regardless of the controls behind them. They were switched via Contactors/Relais, and i had 0V when measuring the Coil (A1to A2). I then measured one of the Coil contacts against Ground/PE and got the full 230V. i subsequently measured Ground/PE against the other Contact and also got 230V. My first conclusion was that they have switched the Neutral/N wire instead of the Live/L Wire, which is already bad enough, but it got worse. Subsequently i located the Box where the Timer was located and what i found was even crazier: they actually didnt have any Neutral in there, they actually switched the Ground/PE to trigger the Contactors. Worst part of the Story? The Cable connecting the Distributor with the Contactors and the Box with the Timer had 5 Wires, so there is no reason to do "Pfusch" like this... Needless to say i changed the Wiring in both locations that this was remedied (Proper L, N and PE over the Cable, and two switched Ls )
Ah yes the crazy stuff you see.. I was just at a new Furnace install a few weeks ago, and while I was running a 12/2 in a basement drop ceiling, there was some very questionable electrical work, plumbing and drywall work... one of those "I know how to do everything" handymen. 3 new fluorescent lights, grounds weren't hooked up, 2 were wired in boxes, 1 was just wired in the ceiling. Loose wire nuts, no enclosures on any junction boxes. A mix of 12/2 and 12/3, I guess just whatever the handyman had, yet the furnace was wired to a switch with 12/2 and a non identified white as a hot...
White hot? SKETCHY
@@jamesbryan7036 yeah it was run by a "handyman" for a switch but not identified. I guess he's unaware of neutral being provided in a switch box.
I assume there's open building permits, pretty common to have "covers" off boxes when work is being done. probably some loophole allowing it for such, if not you'd have a crew of fifty just to install and remove covers non-stop.
12:45. Check code 300.31 Covers Required. In the NEC 2017 code book
I'm originally from MA. The code police in
Boston will probably call this place and send some inspector after this video.
I'm not an electrician but I enjoy following all this. Here's a question: if a cement block room has a closed steel door and only contains open junction boxes, are they considered closed because the room is closed.
When it's the physical location of the box and not the condition of the box, a different set of words applies. Those boxes will be considered accessible if the room is locked, or readily accessible if the door is just closed and NOT locked, but it will not affect what the boxes are, since the room itself is not an enclosure but rather a location. Same thing with running Romex inside a conduit. Just because the conduit is likelier to be dry on the inside, it still doesn't mean that it's a dry "location" - location is where the conduit itself is run, e.g. inside the building, outside the building, shower room, etc., and that's what determines whether it's a wet location or not.
A ton of the 4"and 4 11/16" j boxes in my 120year old NYC loft apartment building have no covers, with live conductors . I've been buying plates and covering them. Probably 20 plus that i've found so far. Very strange to me - is this just laziness?
I think sometimes it’s laziness, sometimes it’s forgetfulness, other times they can’t fit the cover on so they just leave it off.
@@ElectricianU Thanks ! A couple I put extension rings on before the cover, to avoid stuffing in the conductors, so your reasons makes sense .
Enjoyed hearing about the Massachusetts walk-thrus - super interesting! I love your NEC wording dissections. Seems like they should clean up the wording here as common sense suggests it ain't kosher - here in NYC they want everything inside metal so leaving off the cover defeats the spirit of it all, allows Rats to gain access & chew etc..
@@yeliab814 yess
Perhaps the covers were stolen to replace missing covers in another building!
Wow what alot of violations. I enjoyed it. Lookes likes a cheap handyman did it.