I'm a queer artist and I'm currently making artworks about time, not knowing anything about Halberstam's work on queer temporalities until a fellow artist asked me if I know about it. It makes total sense... I've been working blindly, sourcing all sorts of ideas about time but never really thinking that there is a possibility to look at ideas of time through a queer lens. Really really interesting and right up my alley.
Metronormative... That's a new word I learned today. And it's so accurate. Not just when thinking about queerness but so much more. Disabilities, Access to services, culture, art, you name it.
@@dandelion_16 interesting. I've looked at it, as a primary caregiver let me tell you, my experience of time is so different from what society and especially the workplace expects!
Of course non-urban queer encounters have been acknowledged and studied. During the 1950s and 1960s, rural African-American men in the Deep South hooked up during church services for example, as well as sharing their beds with Northern white college men - civil rights workers. See, for example: Howard, John (1999). Men like that: A southern queer history. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
Queer space, queer time,...what's next? Queer gravity? Heteronormative gravitational force is pulling harder on queerness, makes queer people - existence heavier on this planet
The rejection of Queer Temporalities and of Meteronormativity is at best misguided and at worst outright malicious. This is because the rejection requires a whitewashing of history and a deliberate misframing of the conversation. A vital portion of the conversation that gets left out (and that you left out) was the way in which AID's changed the queer community from a community which was shaped by rebellion to a community which was shaped by "Good Gays" and "Political Lesbians". A helpful way to frame the conversation is B.G.G. and A.G.G. (Compare to BCE and CE). AID's killed the rebels leaving the mediocre who sought to erase "Queerness" from queer culture and replace it with hetero-normativity. This is most evident by the hyperfixation on equivocating gay marriage and gay rights. This move was a deliberate attack on queerness. Effectively this was a push to equivocate sex and romance. There was prior to A.G.G. when there was an inherent understanding that in order to be a couple sex was not necessarily a component. Two people could be perfectly romantically compatible and completely sexually incompatible. In these cases there was an expectation that the romantic relationship would occur and one would seek sexual fulfillment elsewhere. It also understood that sexual relationships with others even if one was sexually compatible with a romantic partner did not impact the romantic relationship. Sex and romance were seen as distinct from each other. In addition to this B.G.G. the queer community was closely linked to other minority communities including and especially the black community. My biggest problem with the rejection of metronormativity however is that it ignores the fact that it pushes a narrative which ignores the fact that these communities existed because of queer youth escaping rural and suburban communities. Outside of a select few upper middle class white enclaves rural and suburban queer communities did not exist. Queer culture in these areas was interesting from a sociological perspective, and the way in which rural queer culture was carried by youth into the city when the youth moved from rural areas to metro areas is fascinating and worth noting. But, any attempt to move the queer narrative from metro to rural is not only xenophobic but ahistorical.
Ce n'est pas pour te contrarier, David, mais je me réserve un assez fort doute par rapport à une grosse partie de "queer culture". Il y a des aspects qui semblent contraires à l'anthropologie évolutionnaire. Ce n'est pas que je suis 'contre' (ça serait trop réductif - ce n'est pas une question de 'pour ou contre'), mais il me semble qu'une bonne part de cette analyse s'oriente déjà vers une conclusion voulue. Le militantisme n'a aucune place dans les recherches sincères. En effet, je l'ai évité car c'est impossible de ne pas apporter les biais du vécu dans ce qu'on analyse. Comme des personnes en situation d'handicap qui étudient les personnes en situation d'handicap... Cela dit, j'avoue ne jamais avoir lu Halberstam, merci pour ce résumé.
Je réponds seulement parce que je trouve ce vieux commentaire fallacieux. Ton commentaire peut sembler insincère, comme une façon de critiquer sans être prêt à accepter la critique en retour. En insistant sur le fait que tu n’es “ni pour ni contre”, tu sembles vouloir éviter de te positionner clairement tout en attaquant subtilement. De plus, en qualifiant certaines analyses de biaisées ou orientées, tu laisses entendre que ta propre perspective est plus objective, ce qui peut minimiser l’importance de l’activisme pour les groupes marginalisés. Cela donne l’impression que tu critiques sans vraiment vouloir engager un échange ouvert sur le sujet. On pourrait dire que lorsqu'un groupe est persécuté, l'activisme et le militantisme sont indispensables pour défendre ses droits et sa sécurité. Affirmer que ces éléments n'ont pas leur place reviendrait à ignorer les dynamiques de pouvoir et à adopter une perspective privilégiée. L’objectivité totale n’est peut-être envisageable que lorsque les dangers ne sont plus présents. En attendant, l'activisme apporte des perspectives essentielles et combat les biais qui pourraient maintenir le statu quo.
I hate to do this to you bud but the film is "Paris is Burning"
🤦
I'm a queer artist and I'm currently making artworks about time, not knowing anything about Halberstam's work on queer temporalities until a fellow artist asked me if I know about it. It makes total sense... I've been working blindly, sourcing all sorts of ideas about time but never really thinking that there is a possibility to look at ideas of time through a queer lens. Really really interesting and right up my alley.
Metronormative... That's a new word I learned today. And it's so accurate. Not just when thinking about queerness but so much more. Disabilities, Access to services, culture, art, you name it.
I do think Disability studies have their own version of it called crip time!
@@dandelion_16 interesting. I've looked at it, as a primary caregiver let me tell you, my experience of time is so different from what society and especially the workplace expects!
@@crism8868 I can imagine that, especially as a neurodivergent person. Glad to hear you found my suggestion interesting!
As a gay man, I found it very useful. Looking forward to hearing the rest. Thank you
Of course non-urban queer encounters have been acknowledged and studied. During the 1950s and 1960s, rural African-American men in the Deep South hooked up during church services for example, as well as sharing their beds with Northern white college men - civil rights workers. See, for example: Howard, John (1999). Men like that: A southern queer history. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
Timely upload! I'm discussing this concept in a paper tomorrow. Thanks for the great content as always!
Always eloquent without being overwhelming. Thank you. To me living far away from queer discussion, the movies helped. ❤
Enjoyed this one David, would love to see further explorations on this subject!
This concept shows that queerness is a temporal fabrication and not an eternal reality
This is so interesting! Thank you for this video!
have you thought about doing a video on the adorno-popper debate?
Excellent. Thank you!
Very interesting. Thank you!!
Great video ❤
Queer space, queer time,...what's next? Queer gravity? Heteronormative gravitational force is pulling harder on queerness, makes queer people - existence heavier on this planet
Great idea! I'll be sure to credit you for it!
Thanks 🙏🏻
this ate
dope
Don't feel connected to Halberstain.
Everything is queer.
The rejection of Queer Temporalities and of Meteronormativity is at best misguided and at worst outright malicious. This is because the rejection requires a whitewashing of history and a deliberate misframing of the conversation.
A vital portion of the conversation that gets left out (and that you left out) was the way in which AID's changed the queer community from a community which was shaped by rebellion to a community which was shaped by "Good Gays" and "Political Lesbians". A helpful way to frame the conversation is B.G.G. and A.G.G. (Compare to BCE and CE). AID's killed the rebels leaving the mediocre who sought to erase "Queerness" from queer culture and replace it with hetero-normativity. This is most evident by the hyperfixation on equivocating gay marriage and gay rights. This move was a deliberate attack on queerness.
Effectively this was a push to equivocate sex and romance. There was prior to A.G.G. when there was an inherent understanding that in order to be a couple sex was not necessarily a component. Two people could be perfectly romantically compatible and completely sexually incompatible. In these cases there was an expectation that the romantic relationship would occur and one would seek sexual fulfillment elsewhere. It also understood that sexual relationships with others even if one was sexually compatible with a romantic partner did not impact the romantic relationship. Sex and romance were seen as distinct from each other.
In addition to this B.G.G. the queer community was closely linked to other minority communities including and especially the black community.
My biggest problem with the rejection of metronormativity however is that it ignores the fact that it pushes a narrative which ignores the fact that these communities existed because of queer youth escaping rural and suburban communities. Outside of a select few upper middle class white enclaves rural and suburban queer communities did not exist. Queer culture in these areas was interesting from a sociological perspective, and the way in which rural queer culture was carried by youth into the city when the youth moved from rural areas to metro areas is fascinating and worth noting. But, any attempt to move the queer narrative from metro to rural is not only xenophobic but ahistorical.
I reject it. It's stupid.
Ce n'est pas pour te contrarier, David, mais je me réserve un assez fort doute par rapport à une grosse partie de "queer culture". Il y a des aspects qui semblent contraires à l'anthropologie évolutionnaire. Ce n'est pas que je suis 'contre' (ça serait trop réductif - ce n'est pas une question de 'pour ou contre'), mais il me semble qu'une bonne part de cette analyse s'oriente déjà vers une conclusion voulue. Le militantisme n'a aucune place dans les recherches sincères. En effet, je l'ai évité car c'est impossible de ne pas apporter les biais du vécu dans ce qu'on analyse. Comme des personnes en situation d'handicap qui étudient les personnes en situation d'handicap...
Cela dit, j'avoue ne jamais avoir lu Halberstam, merci pour ce résumé.
Je réponds seulement parce que je trouve ce vieux commentaire fallacieux. Ton commentaire peut sembler insincère, comme une façon de critiquer sans être prêt à accepter la critique en retour. En insistant sur le fait que tu n’es “ni pour ni contre”, tu sembles vouloir éviter de te positionner clairement tout en attaquant subtilement. De plus, en qualifiant certaines analyses de biaisées ou orientées, tu laisses entendre que ta propre perspective est plus objective, ce qui peut minimiser l’importance de l’activisme pour les groupes marginalisés. Cela donne l’impression que tu critiques sans vraiment vouloir engager un échange ouvert sur le sujet. On pourrait dire que lorsqu'un groupe est persécuté, l'activisme et le militantisme sont indispensables pour défendre ses droits et sa sécurité. Affirmer que ces éléments n'ont pas leur place reviendrait à ignorer les dynamiques de pouvoir et à adopter une perspective privilégiée. L’objectivité totale n’est peut-être envisageable que lorsque les dangers ne sont plus présents. En attendant, l'activisme apporte des perspectives essentielles et combat les biais qui pourraient maintenir le statu quo.