Really like the combination of shred footage and geo talk, which is something not many channels combine, if any Obviously you seem like more of a freerider, but would you say mixing in a lot of tech trails would make you reconsider not increasing your reach preference? Maybe not for racing DH, but just in general. I have a super long frame that I only bought because it was on sale. I find it helps a good amount in anything straight and chunky, but it definitely feels too much in winding trails
@@JoshAllenberg Thanks for the feedback! With the exclusion of racing DH, I really don't think so. I feel that the benefits of a bigger frame are not worth the trade-off from my personal experience for most riding. Although there is no traditional trail riding footage of the size large Capra in the video, I have been riding that bike on a fair bit of tight technical trails in Colorado, so this opinion does come with some level of experience. That is awesome you are enjoying your bike for the straight and chunk, though!
@@PeterJamison ok I will keep that in mind 👍 a size large (anything 465-485 reach) is probably the best fit for me. I'm 2 inches taller and my arms are decent length. Maybe during the winter I'll buy another frame and swap everything onto it. The quality you film in is awesome! Hats off to you and your team
Hi @PeterJamison Thank you a lot for your video, but I’m still a little bit lost 😂 I’m 183cm and I’d like to order a decoy MX core 2, normally I would go for an L size but I start to doubt about it, from what I’m reading et watching an XL would fits me, can you give me some advice ? I practice uphills and downhills and do some trails/enduro I’m from France pardon for my English ;) Thx a lot !!
Thank you bro! I’ve been watching every vid about frame sizing. I found your channel recently and this video came out at the perfect time. I really like this format of video and I’d like to see you go into depth on stuff like this. Keep it up!
Glad you enjoyed the video, and thanks for the support! I have some more in-depth content releasing very soon: most notably, a very detailed Capra MX bike check and Izzo bike check as well!
I just bought a medium capra core 3 Im on the high side of 5.9" and have been struggling to throw around a size L trek slash. For the past 18 months. Its fun to bulldoze but takes so much energy to manual or throw around. I compared the geo numbers and stressed out so hard as theyre so drastically different. This video has put my mind at ease i believe i nailed it. Thanks heaps bruv!
Awesome vid, as always! Thank you. Curious to hear your thoughts on the “mullet” setup, which in the past few years has become a major trend. I’m sure that’d be an interesting video! ;)
Thanks for watching, and glad you enjoyed it! Regarding 'mullet', I made a first impressions video on that topic a few weeks back in which I share my thoughts; feel free to check that out here: th-cam.com/video/8t4hHy_85uo/w-d-xo.html Hope this helps!
Good video. Guaranteed this video will rub most the wrong way. 90% of all guys are riding bikes that have a reach 20-30mm longer than formula. I know I did. The kid at the bike shop told my 178cm frame to get the large Yeti. BTW, You definitely are the smoothest rider I have seen on YT. Only one close would be Shawn Neer.
Definitely expect some people to not align with what I am saying in this video, and that's ok; everyone is entitled to their own opinion. That said, I feel confident in the information I am sharing and hope some people can benefit from what I have learned myself. Thanks for the kind words as well. Shawn is an incredible rider and definitely someone who I look up to!
I think I’d agree with all this video. I’d only add though that if you’re more of an XC rider, you’ll spend most your time seated. Then effective top tube is important. Unfortunately all these modern steep seat angles make the seated (ETT) position cramped whilst at the same time making the standing (reach) position longer.
Perfect Video! Im 181 and I have a 44cm frame hardtail mountain bike. What do you think, is that suitable for me or should i have bought 46-48 cm bike? Im riding it in city.
It's crazy how much variance there is across manufacturers, and some companies just don't make a bike that fits me. I'm 5'8 (174cm) and I need a bike around 435cm reach. Evil's Insurgent 27.5 in it's smallest size has a reach of 456cm. Some companies get it right though, it looks like YT's size chart is a lot more accurate to what will actually fit you just based off height. Great video, maybe some skills videos like cornering and bike control in the future? Looking forward to more!
Definitely a crazy variance, and sorry to hear about your issue finding a bike with your preferred reach. I am definitely biased, but in the grand scheme of things, I feel the YT size chart is on the more accurate side. Glad you enjoyed the video and thanks for the ideas! I will likely approach riding technique in the future, but in the meantime, I would recommend checking out Aaron Gwin's channel. His riding tips are amazing.
Thanks Peter, this was helpful for me. I’m 185cm shopping for Yeti SB140s at the moment. Perhaps a M would work, but I normally ride a L. This made me move a completely away from an XL. Also fun watching you absolutely rip!
I am your height at 180 and ride 455mm reach. It feels bang on in the middle of comfortable. It’s a really slack bike at around 63 degrees so I put a 50mm stem on it and it was perfect for grip on the front plus it gives me a tad more room as I’ve got longer arms than average. I think if you’re in between sizes unless you are going flat out on race day, the average person will be better off on the slightly smaller bike in there range.
What's up Peter, good video, I'm 6 feet tall and I'm not sure what size bike to buy and that's why I want to ask you if the angle of the seat tube affects the choice of size because the bike may have a slightly longer reach but a straighter seat tube angle. example the new orbea occam sl. greetings from mexico
Yo! For pedaling applications, yes, the seat tube angle does impact fitment. But, to be honest with you, I mostly look at sizing from a downhill point of view so I may not be too much help, sorry!
thanks for the vid bro! i used to ride a 2017 yt tues on a medium size that felt pretty decent, although, when i rode a gt fury medium size, it felt much bigger.
Hi Peter great video, YT sizing is a bit on the short side compared to other manufacturers. That being said, at 183cm, bikes are typically recommended as size L for me. Usually reach from 480-490 , when I saw the bike in person it kind of felt ridiculous coming from a department store bike. The wheelbase was extremely long. I didn't find the reach a problem pre se, but I did get an in the bike feeling and overall felt the bike was larger than it should be. I would like to try a medium, with a 464mm reach, being a hare taller than you would you say that it would be suitable (asking as it is a DTC that I can't try). I was also wondering if tight turns on trails is a problem as with a shorter teach, the bars get to your knees quicker. What about stability? You mentioned your Tues felt twitchy but would you confidently descend steep terrain despite this?
Hello! Glad you enjoyed the video! My biggest advice would be to try and find a way to demo a few various bikes at multiple reach lengths, regardless if they are the manufacturer you are looking to purchase so that you can get a feel for the sizing. Given your background with the department store bike, getting onto a proper full suspension is going to take some adjustment but going to help your riding tremendously. To touch on the knee interference, that is definitely not a problem I have ever had, but perhaps you ride some super right turns! Lastly, for stability, the longer reach does aid in stability, but that is mostly beneficial in high speed circumstances. Hope this helps!
Thanks, This video helped me a lot. I'm 179cm and I got a 480 reach bike that felt too big and hard to handle. I just ordered a M Capra and I think that will work perfectly.
tbh I'm looking at a capra as well, and I'm the same height as you. Was on the fence because YT chart says we're a large, but I had the same thought as you, I feel I'm a medium...This video also points us towards the medium. Glad I came across it... Hopefully yours works out well for you!
awesome video and explanation. This tracks with my own experience and ive also found tweaking 5-10mm of bar height or stem length can make or break the fit as well. also there is a huge difference in sizing hardtails and full sus based on reach. I measured RAD on my hardtail vs full suspension (decoy mx) and the full sus is 40mm longer than the hardtail but they feel about the same. Jeff Lenosky has a great video on this.
I love that you and I are the same height, makes this easy 🤣Out of curiosity, what's your inseam? This is used for sizing for a lot of brands, and according to some of these sites with, for example, drop-down menus, I'm about smack in the middle of the height distribution but at the very bottom of the inseam category (32 in/81 cm). So for example, Canyon sizes me at medium, when ordinarily I'd canonically be a large. I'm pretty interested in medium-sized bikes as well, for the same reasons as you. At the same time, my two full sus bikes have 480 (trail) and 470 (enduro), and they seem to fit great. I really want to nail the geo on my next bike, which will be a hardtail, and I'm really attracted to the Commencal Meta HT, with a short 450 reach and long 1229 wheelbase at large (!), which seems perfect. In general, do you have any findings or opinions on wheelbase? Other bike nerd content I've been consuming recently indicates that wheelbase between 1200-1250 is ideal for trail riding.
Hello! My recommendation to nail the sizing on your next bike would be to actually check out Jeff Lenosky's sizing video which is linked in the description. His video is hardtail specific and has some great pointers that may really help you! I found his video very interesting personally. Hope this helps!
Perfect video for me. Thank you. I’m considering purchasing at Capra MX but wasn’t sure if I should go with L or M. I’m 5’8” & prefer a 450 reach. Now I’m sure I’d be happy with M considering the wheelbase also. 😃👍🏾
Great video! I'm the same height as you on a bike with 448mm reach. I've been looking at new bikes and in the size charts I always fall closer to the large sizes which are around 475mm reach, but I feel like around 455-460mm would be ideal for having fun and also having enough stability. I'm interested to see where bike manufacturers go in the next few years - will they continue to increase the wheelbase and reach of these bikes? To me it seems like they are hitting the limit of how large bikes should be.
It will definitely be interesting to see how things play out in the next few years, no doubt! Only time will tell. Thanks for taking the time to watch!
@@kpang79 On the trail bikes, I have bounced over the years between 35mm and 50mm. Through that experience, I have found 35mm to lead to a lack of front wheel traction and 50mm to just feel a bit long for my liking, and thus I have settled on 40mm. On the DH side of things, I always run 50mm, so no opinions there... Hope this helps!
Thank you for this video, nobody talks about this topic but it’s so useful! But I have to say that I’m not a big fan of joy of ride, it doesn’t seems reliable but you know what you are talking about with with your level and all of this testing. But what about Yohan Barreli and his revelation with the grim donut? The dude is 176cm tall and rides a 488 reach bike 😅
Thanks for taking the time to watch and for sharing your opinion on the joy of bike channel, I totally understand where you are coming from! For me, I cross-referenced their opinions with many other peoples and also conducted my own test, as shown in the video, which I why I felt comfortable sharing their content. With that said, I haven't consumed all of their content, so I am not certain about their other teachings... Regarding Yoann, I will have to look deeper into his content! But everyone after riding for as long as he has, will develop a personal preference, and if that works for him, that is great!
I'm 180 as well. 465-470 feels great, but I do run very high stack, so I loose some reach on that. Definitely a good idea to err on the shorter sider if in doubt. I had a short bike and it was absolutely fine. I also had one with 480 and that was really difficult to manage.
Thanks for watching and sharing your experiences! Interesting about the 480mm reach being difficult to manage. I am excited to hop on a bike that big just out of curiosity. Definitely easier to make a smaller bike feel bigger than to make a bigger bike feel smaller!
Love your video that’s exactly my struggle too all my mates who ride with me says to get large but I way prefer medium I’m on a S4 turbo levo and I’ve regretted so much not have choose S3 S3 452 and S4 477mm 😢
@@ShevelYar yes I returned it and tried out the trek fuel ex 7 size large and it was perfect! Both were size L but Roscoe felt way bigger and clunkier than the trek fuel, The fuel is way more expensive but I think it's worth it, At least here we're its gnarly Roads with rocks and roots everywhere I even ordered the Roscoe 7 medium size to but it didn't feel any different than the size L, The bike was just uncomfortable all sizes
@@FishplantsThanks for sharing your experience with Roscoe. Something was off with Roscoe so I went with Merida Big trail 700 instead. Size large is only 455 reach, so worked perfectly. For almost the same price as Roscoe 8 I got Fox 34 Performance and better geometry. Anyway thanks for your experience and congrats on your Fuel X 👍
Here late but you gave some excellent advice. I’m just over 5’10. I had a L 29r Siskiu N9, loved it and it was fast but I always felt like I was sat on top of it not in it. Just upgraded to a ‘23 Enduro S3, it’s perfect!! Similar reach, but lower stack & stand over.
very interested I'm exactly 6ft aka 1m83cm and it's as much for ease of handling and lifting the bike on rough wild trails than by necessity of choice L size of the bikes I want are never in stock and I'm wondering if I should not go M because there are some very nice bike for cheap on sale end of 2024 but no Ls to be seen, the pedaling length can be fixed with a longer dropper seatpost and I don't like to have my arms extended so those aren't really a problem (my target ebike is 480mm reach 😮in L or 453 in M quite a jump and I'm supposed to have 457mm)
Thx for the video but don't you think it's a bit simplistic to only consider the pilot size? I think it makes a difference if you have long legs and short torso & wigspan or if you have short legs and long wingspan. I'm very confused by the recommendation I can read everywhere, I'm 186 m so right in between L and XL. I could take a L , the reach (472) match with 186 x 2,55 but everyone one FB group or forum recommends to get an XL (492) with a shorter stem.
Hello! Thanks for watching! Totally understand where you are coming from. This video is quite surface level on sizing and there are some links in the description of videos that take this topic deeper. Regarding your situation between the Large and XL, the downside of a short stem is you give up a huge amount of front wheel traction as that leads you to have less weight over the front axle. Just my thoughts from personal experience, hope this helps!
Hey! I'm 1,84m tall and I'm looking to buy a used Phoenix 29 size medium with 430mm reach. This is definitely on the smaller end. Do you think that riding fast downhill laps are still comfortably possible? And do you think that a longer stem, like a 50mm would be beneficial in that case?
At your height, I would recommend looking into a larger bike for comfortable downhill laps... That said, if you purchase it I would run at least a 50mm stem 👊🏼 Hope this helps!
I wonder if this formula and way of thinking about size assumes a stem length. I would tend to think it assumes a 40mm stems as it’s the mid size stem size for enduro/DH. Any thoughts on this matter?
@@PeterJamison makes sense. My bike is 471 reach and with a 33m stem, slight back sweep and 2cm under the handlebar it gives me a very close RAD to my body. Most importantly, I don’t feel the bike pushing me forward anymore. Impressive how small tweaks make a relevant difference. Thanks for the video!
Hi Just an advice if u have time I moved my megatower v2 size large with 470 mm reach and 1266 wheelbase to pivot firebird with 468 reach and 1236 wheelbase And my heart is on megatower But size L is too long for tight turns and size M seems short, 455 Im 180 cm but short legs What do u think ?
I would say to keep riding the large Megatower that you are comfortable on and work on cornering technique 💯 Aaron Gwin has some great riding tutorials that I think you may find helpful. Hope this helps and thanks for watching!
Hi there bro. Thanks for sharing. I'm 173cm, and I'm like beginner / intermediate XC mtber. If I follow my numbers I'm most of the time M. But I'm getting some bargain popping up, but most of them are L. It almost triggers me to go for them, but I'm afraid that it's to large for me and that it can make the ride less enjoyable. I know that playing with the stem length can help but can make the handling twitchy. What do you recommend me ? Thanks in advance. And one other thing. I'm not that young kid anymore I'm 51 but still races on road bikes and often on mtb. Thanks once again
How does stack play into this? I think a 450 reach with a higher stack will feel different and ride differently than a 450 reach and a lower stack height. Modern Enduro bikes generally seem to have longer reaches and shorter stacks than a DH bike- the specialized enduro vs the demo is a great example s3 reach on a demo is 445 vs 464 on the enduro but the stack height is much higher on the demo-
Higher stack will make your effective reach shorter, by a small margin. In addition, bar height and roll also play into this. These topics are discussed in some of the videos I have linked in the description, but were getting a bit in depth for this video. That is a great point you make comparing the demo and enduro, with that said the 19mm reach difference between the bikes is not compensated by the stack. YT is the same as a medium Tues 27.5 has a 429mm reach and a medium Capra MX has a 444mm reach. Hope this helps!
Another quick note is that stem length also has a big impact on effective reach. Most of the numbers referred to in this video are in regard to a 40mm stem, where my downhill bike has a 50mm stem as that is the shortest you can go on a bike with 40mm stanchions 👊🏼
Awesome video! I am 184cm, which by math (2,5*) puts me on reach 460mm. I have Trance X size L witch feels quite big (reach 485mm!) and e-bike Cube Stereo that has 460 mm. Actually E bike feels better and big Trance X that feels like a boat. It has more stability, easy pedalling uphills but its not as agile while riding trails.After 2 years of riding I want to pedal something playfull. Before I reserached this theme I ordered XL Capra MX 2 weeks ago and it was definitelly too big! So I returned it and on friday, my L size Capra is coming! My former bike (Trance X), which I took as a baseline is definitelly guite big and Ideal reach that I feel right would be around 465 mm for the kind of riding I do.
Btw its nice to hear a confirmation based on experience, from someone like you that Lee's RAD and reach sizing is not out of date on even modern geometries!
@@PetrPolach Glad you enjoyed the video, and thanks for sharing your story! I am sure a large Capra is going to feel great for you and I hope you love the bike!
Hey Eric, thanks for checking out the video. RAAD is actually mentioned in the video and linked in the description as well. Definitely a worthy thing to look into for people looking to dive deeper into this topic
I'm 183 cm I get much smaller reach recommendation than what I ride, but when I measure the rider area distance my 490cm reach bike is just RAD neutral, some bikes are weird but then humans are not all molded equals... Try some different options I guess. Great vid 😂
A+++ I sold my enduro for a small hard tail using same formula. I’m 180cm with 445 reach now and 1/4 the cost bike is 10x more fun. It’s all about fit and there is nothing worse than a too big bike. Soon I’ll slap 160 cranks on it (tibia cm *o.41)
Glad you found something you are enjoying so much! In my experience bike fit and setup is the key to feeling confident and having a positive experience on a bike. Thanks for watching!
Interesting. I am 5’10.5” barefoot and have found I prefer 460mm reach. I stumbled into my preference in a bit less scientific way. I found my old size large Yeti SB140 (27.5) with a 620ish mm effective top tube created a very uncomfortable seated riding position, I demoed a size medium Yeti SB150 with a 605ish mm effective top tube and fell in love with the geo of that bike including the reach of 460mm. Effective top tube is the first number I look at in geo charts for trail and enduro bikes, it tells you a lot unless the bike has some crazy outlier measurement.
You can no longer just look at effective top tube alone, you have to factor in these ridiculous 80° seat angles now. Stack height also offsets the top tube.
@@janeblogs324 Totally understand; this video is intended to be a starting point, and from my perspective, looking at reach is already a big step up from just looking at bike size. For more details on how the seat tube angles and stack height affect sizing, there are some videos linked in the description that discuss that. 🙏
@@janeblogs324 Seat tube angle is a factor in the effective top tube number. If the head angle and reach stay the same the top effective top tube length will get longer or shorter depending on the seat tube angle. For me, if the ETT is 600-615 mm I know I am going to like the reach, head angle and seat angle unless it is a completely stupid bike.
Hey,i know its a few months since the video is up😅But after watching this i decided to go for the smaller and jibbier M sized mx capra instead of the L. 183cm/70kg
Interesting material here but I'll be honest at least for me this doesn't apply that well. I'm 6 foot / 183 cm and I've ridden quite a few bikes from YT, an MK1 Capra in Large with 445 mm reach and always felt small and twitchy once you get at speed. Then made a jump to 480 mm reach bikes ( a 29er Tues, Norco Optic) with 50 mm stems and haven't felt them small or wagons, just amazing at speed and still being able to hit tight turns. Same thing with my Dirtlove DJ bike, bought the long and was thinking it will be to big, but tried my brother shorter DJ ( 418 vs 435 mm reach) and while it was easier to lift the front it was bit twitchy. I don't ride at your level for sure but while for some it may work for me anything under 475 mm reach for trail ridding feels small and twitchy
You mentioned the Optic. At 6’1” I’m between sizes most of the time. I had a L Optic (480 reach) a few seasons ago and always felt on top of the bike. Switched to a S5 (XL) Stumpy with a 490 reach. Cockpit feels better and I’m much more “in” the bike now but this bike feels really long now and not very playful. Rode a friends bike with 477 reach this past weekend and could instantly tell how much more snappy and intuitive it felt. Thinking of going back down to a large, which would still be longer than the RAD calculation. My question is, other than reach, what are geo figures should I look at to avoid that top-heavy feeling?
I´m 170cm and riding a M bike with 435 reach. Thinking of buying a capra size S, the formula says 425 and that bike is 427. I feel that my current bike could be a bit smaler to jib a round soo I gonna try that. I'm a bit scared of failing in the size
@@goncalooliveira-mtb2474 Small will be a fun, playful bike for you no doubt! If it feels too small I would just go for a 50mm stem to lengthen things a bit 🙏
Do it. I don't own a Capra, but at the same height as yours, I find riding my medium Sentinel (450 cm reach) difficult, some time. Especially in steep stuff, my arms end up really stretched out, trying to reach the grips. I don't think it's too much of a body position problem (my hands are light and my feet heavy, my legs are not too bent), it's actually physically difficult to be in the right position. Hope it helps!
Honestly, despite the stellar quality of the video and the interesting information it provides, it was a struggle to go through it, because of the background music volume competing with your voice volume. It was so frustrating to try to listen to what you were saying through the music. Also your voice volume is too low, I had to max out my phone's volume in order to hear your comfortably. Fix this and your videos will be exemplary!
Most riders are not professional, and measuring for a hardtail is different than for a full suspension. Men, more than women, tend to say they are larger than inn reality. This is a great video for a serious rider.
Definitely agree with you on the hardtail sizing, Jeff Lenosky has a great video about that which is linked in the description that you may find interesting as well. Thanks for watching!
Yo! Hope you enjoyed the video! Really enjoy making this more 'editorial' style content; what are your thoughts? Where do you think I can improve?
Really like the combination of shred footage and geo talk, which is something not many channels combine, if any
Obviously you seem like more of a freerider, but would you say mixing in a lot of tech trails would make you reconsider not increasing your reach preference? Maybe not for racing DH, but just in general. I have a super long frame that I only bought because it was on sale. I find it helps a good amount in anything straight and chunky, but it definitely feels too much in winding trails
@@JoshAllenberg Thanks for the feedback! With the exclusion of racing DH, I really don't think so. I feel that the benefits of a bigger frame are not worth the trade-off from my personal experience for most riding. Although there is no traditional trail riding footage of the size large Capra in the video, I have been riding that bike on a fair bit of tight technical trails in Colorado, so this opinion does come with some level of experience. That is awesome you are enjoying your bike for the straight and chunk, though!
@@PeterJamison ok I will keep that in mind 👍 a size large (anything 465-485 reach) is probably the best fit for me. I'm 2 inches taller and my arms are decent length. Maybe during the winter I'll buy another frame and swap everything onto it.
The quality you film in is awesome! Hats off to you and your team
That seems like a good plan if you are happy with the parts you have! And thank you! We are really excited to keep working on our craft 🙏🏼
Hi @PeterJamison
Thank you a lot for your video, but I’m still a little bit lost 😂
I’m 183cm and I’d like to order a decoy MX core 2, normally I would go for an L size but I start to doubt about it, from what I’m reading et watching an XL would fits me, can you give me some advice ? I practice uphills and downhills and do some trails/enduro
I’m from France pardon for my English ;)
Thx a lot !!
Thank you bro! I’ve been watching every vid about frame sizing. I found your channel recently and this video came out at the perfect time. I really like this format of video and I’d like to see you go into depth on stuff like this. Keep it up!
Glad you enjoyed the video, and thanks for the support! I have some more in-depth content releasing very soon: most notably, a very detailed Capra MX bike check and Izzo bike check as well!
Just sensational, thank you very much, this video was super helpful, and beatiful riding in the background as well!
Glad you found the video helpful! Thanks for watching!
I just bought a medium capra core 3 Im on the high side of 5.9" and have been struggling to throw around a size L trek slash. For the past 18 months. Its fun to bulldoze but takes so much energy to manual or throw around.
I compared the geo numbers and stressed out so hard as theyre so drastically different.
This video has put my mind at ease i believe i nailed it.
Thanks heaps bruv!
Love to hear it! Enjoy the bike!
Thanks for showing people from the 90's how to connect to the internet
You are welcome 👍🏼
Very interesting. Never considered looking passed the small, medium, and large sizing convention. Great vid!
Thanks for watching!
Awesome vid, as always! Thank you.
Curious to hear your thoughts on the “mullet” setup, which in the past few years has become a major trend.
I’m sure that’d be an interesting video! ;)
Thanks for watching, and glad you enjoyed it!
Regarding 'mullet', I made a first impressions video on that topic a few weeks back in which I share my thoughts; feel free to check that out here: th-cam.com/video/8t4hHy_85uo/w-d-xo.html
Hope this helps!
Good video. Guaranteed this video will rub most the wrong way. 90% of all guys are riding bikes that have a reach 20-30mm longer than formula. I know I did. The kid at the bike shop told my 178cm frame to get the large Yeti. BTW, You definitely are the smoothest rider I have seen on YT. Only one close would be Shawn Neer.
Definitely expect some people to not align with what I am saying in this video, and that's ok; everyone is entitled to their own opinion. That said, I feel confident in the information I am sharing and hope some people can benefit from what I have learned myself. Thanks for the kind words as well. Shawn is an incredible rider and definitely someone who I look up to!
I think I’d agree with all this video. I’d only add though that if you’re more of an XC rider, you’ll spend most your time seated. Then effective top tube is important. Unfortunately all these modern steep seat angles make the seated (ETT) position cramped whilst at the same time making the standing (reach) position longer.
Totally agree. Thanks for watching!
Perfect Video!
Im 181 and I have a 44cm frame hardtail mountain bike. What do you think, is that suitable for me or should i have bought 46-48 cm bike? Im riding it in city.
Glad you enjoyed the video! For hardtail sizing, I would recommend checking out this video: th-cam.com/video/fvTKrDhypD4/w-d-xo.html
It's crazy how much variance there is across manufacturers, and some companies just don't make a bike that fits me. I'm 5'8 (174cm) and I need a bike around 435cm reach. Evil's Insurgent 27.5 in it's smallest size has a reach of 456cm. Some companies get it right though, it looks like YT's size chart is a lot more accurate to what will actually fit you just based off height. Great video, maybe some skills videos like cornering and bike control in the future? Looking forward to more!
Definitely a crazy variance, and sorry to hear about your issue finding a bike with your preferred reach. I am definitely biased, but in the grand scheme of things, I feel the YT size chart is on the more accurate side. Glad you enjoyed the video and thanks for the ideas! I will likely approach riding technique in the future, but in the meantime, I would recommend checking out Aaron Gwin's channel. His riding tips are amazing.
I’m also 5’8”, and undecided where to get a Capra MX in Medium or Large. I prefer a 450 reach.
Great video.
Glad you enjoyed the video! If you know you enjoy a 450mm reach I would definitely go with the medium 🤘🏼
Thanks Peter, this was helpful for me. I’m 185cm shopping for Yeti SB140s at the moment. Perhaps a M would work, but I normally ride a L. This made me move a completely away from an XL. Also fun watching you absolutely rip!
Glad it was helpful and thanks for watching!
I am your height at 180 and ride 455mm reach. It feels bang on in the middle of comfortable. It’s a really slack bike at around 63 degrees so I put a 50mm stem on it and it was perfect for grip on the front plus it gives me a tad more room as I’ve got longer arms than average. I think if you’re in between sizes unless you are going flat out on race day, the average person will be better off on the slightly smaller bike in there range.
Totally agree with you! Glad enjoy your bike!
What's up Peter, good video, I'm 6 feet tall and I'm not sure what size bike to buy and that's why I want to ask you if the angle of the seat tube affects the choice of size because the bike may have a slightly longer reach but a straighter seat tube angle. example the new orbea occam sl. greetings from mexico
Yo! For pedaling applications, yes, the seat tube angle does impact fitment. But, to be honest with you, I mostly look at sizing from a downhill point of view so I may not be too much help, sorry!
@@PeterJamison thanks man, appreciate your help
greeatings from mexico
@checoperezugalde22 anytime 👊🏼
thanks for the vid bro! i used to ride a 2017 yt tues on a medium size that felt pretty decent, although, when i rode a gt fury medium size, it felt much bigger.
Thanks for watching!
Hi Peter great video, YT sizing is a bit on the short side compared to other manufacturers. That being said, at 183cm, bikes are typically recommended as size L for me. Usually reach from 480-490 , when I saw the bike in person it kind of felt ridiculous coming from a department store bike. The wheelbase was extremely long. I didn't find the reach a problem pre se, but I did get an in the bike feeling and overall felt the bike was larger than it should be. I would like to try a medium, with a 464mm reach, being a hare taller than you would you say that it would be suitable (asking as it is a DTC that I can't try). I was also wondering if tight turns on trails is a problem as with a shorter teach, the bars get to your knees quicker. What about stability? You mentioned your Tues felt twitchy but would you confidently descend steep terrain despite this?
Hello! Glad you enjoyed the video! My biggest advice would be to try and find a way to demo a few various bikes at multiple reach lengths, regardless if they are the manufacturer you are looking to purchase so that you can get a feel for the sizing. Given your background with the department store bike, getting onto a proper full suspension is going to take some adjustment but going to help your riding tremendously. To touch on the knee interference, that is definitely not a problem I have ever had, but perhaps you ride some super right turns! Lastly, for stability, the longer reach does aid in stability, but that is mostly beneficial in high speed circumstances. Hope this helps!
Thanks, This video helped me a lot. I'm 179cm and I got a 480 reach bike that felt too big and hard to handle. I just ordered a M Capra and I think that will work perfectly.
Glad you found the video helpful, and I hope you enjoy your new bike!
tbh I'm looking at a capra as well, and I'm the same height as you. Was on the fence because YT chart says we're a large, but I had the same thought as you, I feel I'm a medium...This video also points us towards the medium. Glad I came across it... Hopefully yours works out well for you!
@@taylormurphy4197 happy to report that the medium felt perfect for me. I think the larger size would be better for newer riders.
awesome video and explanation. This tracks with my own experience and ive also found tweaking 5-10mm of bar height or stem length can make or break the fit as well. also there is a huge difference in sizing hardtails and full sus based on reach. I measured RAD on my hardtail vs full suspension (decoy mx) and the full sus is 40mm longer than the hardtail but they feel about the same. Jeff Lenosky has a great video on this.
I totally agree on the hardtail sizing; Jeff's video is actually linked in the description 👍 Thanks for watching!
I love that you and I are the same height, makes this easy 🤣Out of curiosity, what's your inseam? This is used for sizing for a lot of brands, and according to some of these sites with, for example, drop-down menus, I'm about smack in the middle of the height distribution but at the very bottom of the inseam category (32 in/81 cm). So for example, Canyon sizes me at medium, when ordinarily I'd canonically be a large. I'm pretty interested in medium-sized bikes as well, for the same reasons as you. At the same time, my two full sus bikes have 480 (trail) and 470 (enduro), and they seem to fit great. I really want to nail the geo on my next bike, which will be a hardtail, and I'm really attracted to the Commencal Meta HT, with a short 450 reach and long 1229 wheelbase at large (!), which seems perfect. In general, do you have any findings or opinions on wheelbase? Other bike nerd content I've been consuming recently indicates that wheelbase between 1200-1250 is ideal for trail riding.
Hello! My recommendation to nail the sizing on your next bike would be to actually check out Jeff Lenosky's sizing video which is linked in the description. His video is hardtail specific and has some great pointers that may really help you! I found his video very interesting personally. Hope this helps!
Perfect video for me. Thank you.
I’m considering purchasing at Capra MX but wasn’t sure if I should go with L or M.
I’m 5’8” & prefer a 450 reach. Now I’m sure I’d be happy with M considering the wheelbase also. 😃👍🏾
Glad you enjoyed the video and thanks for watching!
Great video! I'm the same height as you on a bike with 448mm reach. I've been looking at new bikes and in the size charts I always fall closer to the large sizes which are around 475mm reach, but I feel like around 455-460mm would be ideal for having fun and also having enough stability. I'm interested to see where bike manufacturers go in the next few years - will they continue to increase the wheelbase and reach of these bikes? To me it seems like they are hitting the limit of how large bikes should be.
It will definitely be interesting to see how things play out in the next few years, no doubt! Only time will tell. Thanks for taking the time to watch!
Good video! would stem length are you using in term of different reach?
95% of the time I keepings consistent with a 40mm stem! Thanks for watching!
@@PeterJamison thanks buddy, just wondering if you had chance to try other stem length and, why you settlled on 40mm? thanks a lot!
@@kpang79 On the trail bikes, I have bounced over the years between 35mm and 50mm. Through that experience, I have found 35mm to lead to a lack of front wheel traction and 50mm to just feel a bit long for my liking, and thus I have settled on 40mm. On the DH side of things, I always run 50mm, so no opinions there... Hope this helps!
Thank you for this video, nobody talks about this topic but it’s so useful! But I have to say that I’m not a big fan of joy of ride, it doesn’t seems reliable but you know what you are talking about with with your level and all of this testing. But what about Yohan Barreli and his revelation with the grim donut? The dude is 176cm tall and rides a 488 reach bike 😅
Thanks for taking the time to watch and for sharing your opinion on the joy of bike channel, I totally understand where you are coming from! For me, I cross-referenced their opinions with many other peoples and also conducted my own test, as shown in the video, which I why I felt comfortable sharing their content. With that said, I haven't consumed all of their content, so I am not certain about their other teachings... Regarding Yoann, I will have to look deeper into his content! But everyone after riding for as long as he has, will develop a personal preference, and if that works for him, that is great!
I'm 180 as well. 465-470 feels great, but I do run very high stack, so I loose some reach on that. Definitely a good idea to err on the shorter sider if in doubt. I had a short bike and it was absolutely fine. I also had one with 480 and that was really difficult to manage.
Thanks for watching and sharing your experiences! Interesting about the 480mm reach being difficult to manage. I am excited to hop on a bike that big just out of curiosity. Definitely easier to make a smaller bike feel bigger than to make a bigger bike feel smaller!
Im thinking about getting a Tues core 2 and i wanted to see if you've rode one before ,and if so, how it felt?
I’ve only ridden my custom built bikes, so I don’t have any specific input on the Core 2. That said, the Tues platform overall is great!
@@PeterJamison ok man. Appreciate you getting back to me so quickly. Keep up the good content.
@@veno6481 🙏🙏
Thanks, perfect!
Thanks for watching!
Love your video that’s exactly my struggle too all my mates who ride with me says to get large but I way prefer medium I’m on a S4 turbo levo and I’ve regretted so much not have choose S3
S3 452 and S4 477mm 😢
Dang sorry to hear that, always tough getting stuck on a big bike! Glad you enjoyed the video!
Im 180 and bought the roscoe L but it seems really big and clunky, will probably return it for a medium 🤔
Sorry to hear that your bike isn't working out too well for you!
Have you returned the L Roscoe? If so did you go with M or ML size? Thanks
@@ShevelYar yes I returned it and tried out the trek fuel ex 7 size large and it was perfect!
Both were size L but Roscoe felt way bigger and clunkier than the trek fuel, The fuel is way more expensive but I think it's worth it, At least here we're its gnarly Roads with rocks and roots everywhere
I even ordered the Roscoe 7 medium size to but it didn't feel any different than the size L, The bike was just uncomfortable all sizes
@@FishplantsThanks for sharing your experience with Roscoe. Something was off with Roscoe so I went with Merida Big trail 700 instead. Size large is only 455 reach, so worked perfectly. For almost the same price as Roscoe 8 I got Fox 34 Performance and better geometry. Anyway thanks for your experience and congrats on your Fuel X 👍
Here late but you gave some excellent advice.
I’m just over 5’10.
I had a L 29r Siskiu N9, loved it and it was fast but I always felt like I was sat on top of it not in it.
Just upgraded to a ‘23 Enduro S3, it’s perfect!! Similar reach, but lower stack & stand over.
Glad you found a bike that is working well for you!
very interested I'm exactly 6ft aka 1m83cm and it's as much for ease of handling and lifting the bike on rough wild trails than by necessity of choice L size of the bikes I want are never in stock and I'm wondering if I should not go M because there are some very nice bike for cheap on sale end of 2024 but no Ls to be seen, the pedaling length can be fixed with a longer dropper seatpost and I don't like to have my arms extended so those aren't really a problem (my target ebike is 480mm reach 😮in L or 453 in M quite a jump and I'm supposed to have 457mm)
Definitely worth demoing a smaller bike to see how you like it✌🏼
Thx for the video but don't you think it's a bit simplistic to only consider the pilot size? I think it makes a difference if you have long legs and short torso & wigspan or if you have short legs and long wingspan.
I'm very confused by the recommendation I can read everywhere, I'm 186 m so right in between L and XL. I could take a L , the reach (472) match with 186 x 2,55 but everyone one FB group or forum recommends to get an XL (492) with a shorter stem.
Hello! Thanks for watching! Totally understand where you are coming from. This video is quite surface level on sizing and there are some links in the description of videos that take this topic deeper. Regarding your situation between the Large and XL, the downside of a short stem is you give up a huge amount of front wheel traction as that leads you to have less weight over the front axle. Just my thoughts from personal experience, hope this helps!
Would love to see some input on the jeffsy, doesnt seem you end up on one very often
Thanks for the suggestion! By chance I’ve got a full series coming on the Jeffsy this fall, building up a new one in the next few weeks!
Hey! I'm 1,84m tall and I'm looking to buy a used Phoenix 29 size medium with 430mm reach. This is definitely on the smaller end. Do you think that riding fast downhill laps are still comfortably possible? And do you think that a longer stem, like a 50mm would be beneficial in that case?
At your height, I would recommend looking into a larger bike for comfortable downhill laps... That said, if you purchase it I would run at least a 50mm stem 👊🏼 Hope this helps!
@@PeterJamison 🙏🏼
@@PeterJamison I purchased the bike. What is the longest you would go with a stem?
I would likely run a 50mm direct mount stem and 20mm rise handlebar with a slight forward roll ✌
@@PeterJamison That helps a lot. I really appreciate your advice!
I wonder if this formula and way of thinking about size assumes a stem length. I would tend to think it assumes a 40mm stems as it’s the mid size stem size for enduro/DH. Any thoughts on this matter?
Yep, assumes 40mm stem. My apologies for the confusion
@@PeterJamison makes sense. My bike is 471 reach and with a 33m stem, slight back sweep and 2cm under the handlebar it gives me a very close RAD to my body. Most importantly, I don’t feel the bike pushing me forward anymore. Impressive how small tweaks make a relevant difference. Thanks for the video!
@@felipefarias7654 small tweaks make a huge difference for sure! Thanks for watching!
I'm 5 foot 10 and 33 inseam, then 6 ft arm span..i wonder what bike size right for me, what are your thoughts ?
Well, I don't believe in recommending specific sizes, but, I would suggest demoing various bikes and find a reach number that feels good to you ✌🏼
Very good information.
👊🏼
Hi
Just an advice if u have time
I moved my megatower v2 size large with 470 mm reach and 1266 wheelbase to pivot firebird with 468 reach and 1236 wheelbase
And my heart is on megatower
But size L is too long for tight turns and size M seems short, 455
Im 180 cm but short legs
What do u think ?
I would say to keep riding the large Megatower that you are comfortable on and work on cornering technique 💯 Aaron Gwin has some great riding tutorials that I think you may find helpful. Hope this helps and thanks for watching!
Hi, great video !! I am about 167cm and just ordered a yt capra M. Do you think is big for me? Should i email them and try to exchange it to S?
Glad you enjoyed it, you could really go either way (s or m). They will just ride differently 🤙🏻
@@PeterJamison i am afraid that on steep terrain it will be difficult because of the 444 reach
@@alexandruionita8114 That is fair, I would recommend A high rise bar to help with that ✌
@@PeterJamisonso stick with M and buy a high rise bar?
Hi there bro. Thanks for sharing. I'm 173cm, and I'm like beginner / intermediate XC mtber. If I follow my numbers I'm most of the time M. But I'm getting some bargain popping up, but most of them are L.
It almost triggers me to go for them, but I'm afraid that it's to large for me and that it can make the ride less enjoyable. I know that playing with the stem length can help but can make the handling twitchy.
What do you recommend me ?
Thanks in advance.
And one other thing. I'm not that young kid anymore I'm 51 but still races on road bikes and often on mtb.
Thanks once again
I would definitely steer away from going for a bigger bike simply because of a good deal, hope this helps! 🤘
How does stack play into this? I think a 450 reach with a higher stack will feel different and ride differently than a 450 reach and a lower stack height. Modern Enduro bikes generally seem to have longer reaches and shorter stacks than a DH bike- the specialized enduro vs the demo is a great example s3 reach on a demo is 445 vs 464 on the enduro but the stack height is much higher on the demo-
Higher stack will make your effective reach shorter, by a small margin. In addition, bar height and roll also play into this. These topics are discussed in some of the videos I have linked in the description, but were getting a bit in depth for this video. That is a great point you make comparing the demo and enduro, with that said the 19mm reach difference between the bikes is not compensated by the stack. YT is the same as a medium Tues 27.5 has a 429mm reach and a medium Capra MX has a 444mm reach. Hope this helps!
Another quick note is that stem length also has a big impact on effective reach. Most of the numbers referred to in this video are in regard to a 40mm stem, where my downhill bike has a 50mm stem as that is the shortest you can go on a bike with 40mm stanchions 👊🏼
Awesome video! I am 184cm, which by math (2,5*) puts me on reach 460mm. I have Trance X size L witch feels quite big (reach 485mm!) and e-bike Cube Stereo that has 460 mm. Actually E bike feels better and big Trance X that feels like a boat. It has more stability, easy pedalling uphills but its not as agile while riding trails.After 2 years of riding I want to pedal something playfull.
Before I reserached this theme I ordered XL Capra MX 2 weeks ago and it was definitelly too big! So I returned it and on friday, my L size Capra is coming! My former bike (Trance X), which I took as a baseline is definitelly guite big and Ideal reach that I feel right would be around 465 mm for the kind of riding I do.
Btw its nice to hear a confirmation based on experience, from someone like you that Lee's RAD and reach sizing is not out of date on even modern geometries!
@@PetrPolach Glad you enjoyed the video, and thanks for sharing your story! I am sure a large Capra is going to feel great for you and I hope you love the bike!
You should check out Lee McCormick's RAAD sizing.
Hey Eric, thanks for checking out the video. RAAD is actually mentioned in the video and linked in the description as well. Definitely a worthy thing to look into for people looking to dive deeper into this topic
I'm 183 cm I get much smaller reach recommendation than what I ride, but when I measure the rider area distance my 490cm reach bike is just RAD neutral, some bikes are weird but then humans are not all molded equals... Try some different options I guess. Great vid 😂
That is interesting! Thanks for watching!
Loved this Peter - so interesting 🥰
Thanks mom 🫶🏼
A+++
I sold my enduro for a small hard tail using same formula. I’m 180cm with 445 reach now and 1/4 the cost bike is 10x more fun. It’s all about fit and there is nothing worse than a too big bike.
Soon I’ll slap 160 cranks on it (tibia cm *o.41)
Glad you found something you are enjoying so much! In my experience bike fit and setup is the key to feeling confident and having a positive experience on a bike. Thanks for watching!
Thx mate. I would love to hear your 2 cents on crank length, should the occasion fit. 💪🏻
Thanks for the idea, one day! I still have a lot to learn in that department myself, but when I have some conclusions I will definitely discuss 👊🏼👊🏼
Thanks a lot 🙏🙏
Anytime!
I’m 5’5” tall. What size of bike do you recommend?
I would refer to the equations referenced in this video 👍🏼
Thx
Went from a s3 to a s5 on specialized what a huge difference,
🤘🏼
Interesting. I am 5’10.5” barefoot and have found I prefer 460mm reach. I stumbled into my preference in a bit less scientific way. I found my old size large Yeti SB140 (27.5) with a 620ish mm effective top tube created a very uncomfortable seated riding position, I demoed a size medium Yeti SB150 with a 605ish mm effective top tube and fell in love with the geo of that bike including the reach of 460mm. Effective top tube is the first number I look at in geo charts for trail and enduro bikes, it tells you a lot unless the bike has some crazy outlier measurement.
That is awesome, glad you have found a sizing method that works well for you!
You can no longer just look at effective top tube alone, you have to factor in these ridiculous 80° seat angles now. Stack height also offsets the top tube.
@@janeblogs324 Totally understand; this video is intended to be a starting point, and from my perspective, looking at reach is already a big step up from just looking at bike size. For more details on how the seat tube angles and stack height affect sizing, there are some videos linked in the description that discuss that. 🙏
@@janeblogs324 Seat tube angle is a factor in the effective top tube number. If the head angle and reach stay the same the top effective top tube length will get longer or shorter depending on the seat tube angle. For me, if the ETT is 600-615 mm I know I am going to like the reach, head angle and seat angle unless it is a completely stupid bike.
I’m considering buying a 2024 jeffsy core 3 I’m wondering what frame would fit me sense I’m 5’5-5’6? How do these bikes fit small or big?
Haven't ridden the new Jeffsy so I am unable to help here, sorry ✌🏼
Hey,i know its a few months since the video is up😅But after watching this i decided to go for the smaller and jibbier M sized mx capra instead of the L.
183cm/70kg
Rad, glad you found the video and hope you enjoy the bike 🤙🏼
Interesting material here but I'll be honest at least for me this doesn't apply that well. I'm 6 foot / 183 cm and I've ridden quite a few bikes from YT, an MK1 Capra in Large with 445 mm reach and always felt small and twitchy once you get at speed. Then made a jump to 480 mm reach bikes ( a 29er Tues, Norco Optic) with 50 mm stems and haven't felt them small or wagons, just amazing at speed and still being able to hit tight turns. Same thing with my Dirtlove DJ bike, bought the long and was thinking it will be to big, but tried my brother shorter DJ ( 418 vs 435 mm reach) and while it was easier to lift the front it was bit twitchy. I don't ride at your level for sure but while for some it may work for me anything under 475 mm reach for trail ridding feels small and twitchy
Glad you have been able to find what works best for you!
You mentioned the Optic. At 6’1” I’m between sizes most of the time. I had a L Optic (480 reach) a few seasons ago and always felt on top of the bike. Switched to a S5 (XL) Stumpy with a 490 reach. Cockpit feels better and I’m much more “in” the bike now but this bike feels really long now and not very playful. Rode a friends bike with 477 reach this past weekend and could instantly tell how much more snappy and intuitive it felt. Thinking of going back down to a large, which would still be longer than the RAD calculation.
My question is, other than reach, what are geo figures should I look at to avoid that top-heavy feeling?
Could the Tues feel unstable bc of the 27.5 wheels at higher speeds?
Wheel size doesn’t have that large of an impact on stability at high speed in my experience, good idea though 👍🏼
@@PeterJamison damn that was a quick response lol
@@DavidFoundCo try my best!
I´m 170cm and riding a M bike with 435 reach. Thinking of buying a capra size S, the formula says 425 and that bike is 427. I feel that my current bike could be a bit smaler to jib a round soo I gonna try that. I'm a bit scared of failing in the size
Also Do you think that the S can feel really small? Or could be small but riddeble?
@@goncalooliveira-mtb2474 Small will be a fun, playful bike for you no doubt! If it feels too small I would just go for a 50mm stem to lengthen things a bit 🙏
Do it. I don't own a Capra, but at the same height as yours, I find riding my medium Sentinel (450 cm reach) difficult, some time. Especially in steep stuff, my arms end up really stretched out, trying to reach the grips. I don't think it's too much of a body position problem (my hands are light and my feet heavy, my legs are not too bent), it's actually physically difficult to be in the right position. Hope it helps!
This makes me feel crazy for riding a bike that’s 480 reach and I’m like 5’9 ish
As long as you feel comfortable and confident that is all that matters 🙏
@@PeterJamison true it feels great to me just maybe a little less playful 😁
That is great, thanks for watching the video and hope you have some awesome upcoming rides 🙏🏼
Honestly, despite the stellar quality of the video and the interesting information it provides, it was a struggle to go through it, because of the background music volume competing with your voice volume. It was so frustrating to try to listen to what you were saying through the music. Also your voice volume is too low, I had to max out my phone's volume in order to hear your comfortably. Fix this and your videos will be exemplary!
Thanks for your feedback ✌
Most riders are not professional, and measuring for a hardtail is different than for a full suspension. Men, more than women, tend to say they are larger than inn reality. This is a great video for a serious rider.
Definitely agree with you on the hardtail sizing, Jeff Lenosky has a great video about that which is linked in the description that you may find interesting as well. Thanks for watching!
I’m 6’8 and the XXL in the Capra feels to big for me 😂
Interesting, sorry to hear that! Moving forward at least you now how a gauge for your personal preference 🙏🏼
@@PeterJamison yeah I’ve always rode bmx bikes that probably why😂
Definitely, when I switched from BMX to MTB I was far more comfortable on very small bikes for quite a while!
kinda means nothing unless we know what size stem you run on each
40mm for the most part across the board, 50mm on the DH bike, and 32mm on the dirt jumper 🤙🏻
Ripper!
Thanks for the kind words and for watching!
Im 5'5 but i used medium
✌🏼
Can I have a bike please
Perhaps I will do a giveaway one day!