13:57 - I don’t think it’s possible to disagree with someone as strongly as I disagree with you right here, one of the most important components to superman’s personhood and sense of agency, is the fact that he is an orphan of earth, he wasn’t born here but it is the place he calls home, he was raised by humans and grew up as a human, of course his Kryptonian heritage is important to him, that’s literally always been the case, but it is certainly not the most important part of his life, In this case, John Byrne really steered superman into a better direction, this is what makes superman so unequivocally human, he doesn’t have our DNA, but he’s one of us regardless, and he continues to protect and defend humanity no matter what, that includes defending against other Kryptonian as well.
At the end of Man of Steel Superman literally thinks that finding out he is from Krypton is “ultimately meaningless “ and the memories his parents gave him were only “curious mementos”. That is terribly wrong for Superman. Yes, Earth is his home but this view of his heritage is just one of the many things Byrne got totally wrong. So yeah, we disagree on this one.
I certainly enjoyed the revised Superman at the time, after putting up with the Bronze Age nonsense of Clark Kent working as a TV anchorman and getting bullied by Steve Lombard. But still, with the new timeline I missed him having a past as Superboy. Another John Byrne series I got a kick out of was his _Superman and Batman Generations_ which reimagines a continuous timeline for the two heroes from the 1930s to the modern day, one decade at a time, each story matching the style of story published at the time.
As someone who read all these back issues during the 90's, I agree with you. Back then I preferred the Byrne version & that was *_my_* Superman. Nowadays, I actually prefer the Pre-Crisis Superman more than the Post-Crisis version.
I've always had a soft spot for John Byrne because of his work on X-Men and his creation of Alpha Flight, which is a favorite of mine. I really didn't care for his work on Superman, especially the retcon doing away with Superboy. Superboy was and is another favorite, as well as that little feature, The Legion of Superheroes, which kind of took off and which I love. The older silver age Superman comics, when he had god-like powers, were awesome. A favorite moment in my memory; some evil guy fired a ray at the earth that would destroy the planet, and Superman PUSHED THE PLANET OUT OF THE WAY! You just don't get that kind of action from angst-ridden, identity-conscious heroes that wonder if it's ethical to punch the bad guy.
From what I read of the book Clark wasn’t angsty 24/7 and he couldn’t touch Luthor because he was a public figure and that’s the only case where he hesitates Also the problem with that pushing the planet away opens up many questions as to how Superman can possibly struggle if he’s that strong
I think Byrne did a great job. Superman was dated before Byrne, eventhough Curt Swan was one of the best to draw Superman. But the new stories by Byrne was awesome.
It wasn’t change for the sake of it dc wanted things to make more sense they felt the comic was spinning it’s wheels and wanted to tell more grounded story’s with the character
John Byre on Superman was a great Run, it was fresh, smart, and had great Lore, he did a good ret-con of the Superman mythology, and gave more sense for why Clark is SO important..
I was womdering what youd think of that. I have his Fantastic Four vol 1 Omni which i quite like and many in that collection inone of my many boxes. Thank M.
Marv Wolfman came up with the idea of Lex Luthor being a ruthless businessman like Donald Trump was in the 1980's. He also created Lexcorp. Wolfman has talked about this in various interviews including one on the Superman animated cartoon from 1988 which only lasted 13 episodes. That cartoon is pretty much based on this version of Superman.
@@michaelk.vaughan8617 Thanks. Good to know. I'll check them out. Just discovered your channel & am really liking it. Especially the Robert E .Howard stuff. 👍
Byrne has said that working at DC was such a nightmare that when asked he said he wouldn’t leave Marvel if he knew what it was going to be like. Think about that-he would have preferred to work under Jim Shooter. Shooter the guy he hated with a white hot passion. A significant amount of his Superman run was the result of committee compromise. So this is probably why it seems so flat and less impactful.
Lord Michael, you seem a bit tired today. Is everything alright there in the Stately Vaughan Manor? Are you getting enough sleep? Perhaps your valet could fetch you a restorative A&W root beer? Here’s to your health! 🍺
I love John Byrne's art..but his storytelling (when he's not working collaboratively) isn't so great. This book and Alpha Flight being two notable examples.
Wow I disagree so much with this video. Basically, never try something new with a character which was the entire mandate of the Crisis. You just want status quo forever
13:57 - I don’t think it’s possible to disagree with someone as strongly as I disagree with you right here, one of the most important components to superman’s personhood and sense of agency, is the fact that he is an orphan of earth, he wasn’t born here but it is the place he calls home, he was raised by humans and grew up as a human, of course his Kryptonian heritage is important to him, that’s literally always been the case, but it is certainly not the most important part of his life, In this case, John Byrne really steered superman into a better direction, this is what makes superman so unequivocally human, he doesn’t have our DNA, but he’s one of us regardless, and he continues to protect and defend humanity no matter what, that includes defending against other Kryptonian as well.
At the end of Man of Steel Superman literally thinks that finding out he is from Krypton is “ultimately meaningless “ and the memories his parents gave him were only “curious mementos”. That is terribly wrong for Superman. Yes, Earth is his home but this view of his heritage is just one of the many things Byrne got totally wrong. So yeah, we disagree on this one.
John Byrne going to work for DC Comics after working for Marvel is a direct parallel to Jack Kirby working for DC Comics after leaving Marvel Comics.
Jerry Ordway is a very underrated artist and writer. I wish more of his runs on series were in print.
I agree completely.
Happy Birthday to John Byrne Blessings and Hugs 💖💕💕💕💕
I love the shelves behind you! I love comics, but have actually never picked up a Superman one. Great video
Thanks!
Just bought the 4 volumes of the collector editions. The first Supes books I've ever own. Thanks for the review/backstory
This sounds quite fascinating to me. Thanks for the video
You are welcome. Thanks for watching!
Awesome video!
Thanks James!
I certainly enjoyed the revised Superman at the time, after putting up with the Bronze Age nonsense of Clark Kent working as a TV anchorman and getting bullied by Steve Lombard. But still, with the new timeline I missed him having a past as Superboy.
Another John Byrne series I got a kick out of was his _Superman and Batman Generations_ which reimagines a continuous timeline for the two heroes from the 1930s to the modern day, one decade at a time, each story matching the style of story published at the time.
You are right about anchorman Kent. I put that out of my mind.
As someone who read all these back issues during the 90's, I agree with you. Back then I preferred the Byrne version & that was *_my_* Superman. Nowadays, I actually prefer the Pre-Crisis Superman more than the Post-Crisis version.
Good call on the Byrne stuff.
Your valet is happy again, I see. Although he was probably a little upset about the tie. (But I love it👍👍👍❤❤❤!)
I've always had a soft spot for John Byrne because of his work on X-Men and his creation of Alpha Flight, which is a favorite of mine. I really didn't care for his work on Superman, especially the retcon doing away with Superboy. Superboy was and is another favorite, as well as that little feature, The Legion of Superheroes, which kind of took off and which I love.
The older silver age Superman comics, when he had god-like powers, were awesome. A favorite moment in my memory; some evil guy fired a ray at the earth that would destroy the planet, and Superman PUSHED THE PLANET OUT OF THE WAY! You just don't get that kind of action from angst-ridden, identity-conscious heroes that wonder if it's ethical to punch the bad guy.
From what I read of the book Clark wasn’t angsty 24/7 and he couldn’t touch Luthor because he was a public figure and that’s the only case where he hesitates
Also the problem with that pushing the planet away opens up many questions as to how Superman can possibly struggle if he’s that strong
Never really got into Superman much, but still enjoyed the review! 👍
Thanks! Are you still reading Saga?
@@michaelk.vaughan8617 ok ok, I’ll get it done! 😜
I think Byrne did a great job. Superman was dated before Byrne, eventhough Curt Swan was one of the best to draw Superman. But the new stories by Byrne was awesome.
Change for the sake of change is an odd approach, particularly for such an iconic character.
It wasn’t change for the sake of it dc wanted things to make more sense they felt the comic was spinning it’s wheels and wanted to tell more grounded story’s with the character
I suppose it’s good to know comic fans were just grouchy and frustrated back then as they are today.
Is there any connections between Jerry Ordway and John Byrne?
John Byre on Superman was a great Run, it was fresh, smart, and had great Lore, he did a good ret-con of the Superman mythology, and gave more sense for why Clark is SO important..
It mustn't be very good as these volumes are available in Australia quite cheaply ! 🤣
Ha! That is indeed a condemnation.
I was womdering what youd think of that. I have his Fantastic Four vol 1 Omni which i quite like and many in that collection inone of my many boxes. Thank M.
I remember really liking his FF issues. I have to pick up that omnibus.
Marv Wolfman came up with the idea of Lex Luthor being a ruthless businessman like Donald Trump was in the 1980's. He also created Lexcorp. Wolfman has talked about this in various interviews including one on the Superman animated cartoon from 1988 which only lasted 13 episodes. That cartoon is pretty much based on this version of Superman.
On TH-cam, look up "John Byrne on the Today Show 1986" for an interview with Byrne promoting Man Of Steel #1.
Marv Wolfman coming up with that idea makes complete sense.
How were the volumes themselves? Binding, paper quality ?
They are actually really nice hardcovers. They were originally going to do these as a couple omnibus volumes but I’m happy having them in this format.
@@michaelk.vaughan8617 Thanks. Good to know. I'll check them out. Just discovered your channel & am really liking it. Especially the Robert E .Howard stuff. 👍
Agree with you, I don't like the John Byrne Superman run
Byrne has said that working at DC was such a nightmare that when asked he said he wouldn’t leave Marvel if he knew what it was going to be like.
Think about that-he would have preferred to work under Jim Shooter. Shooter the guy he hated with a white hot passion.
A significant amount of his Superman run was the result of committee compromise. So this is probably why it seems so flat and less impactful.
Lord Michael, you seem a bit tired today. Is everything alright there in the Stately Vaughan Manor? Are you getting enough sleep? Perhaps your valet could fetch you a restorative A&W root beer? Here’s to your health! 🍺
My work schedule is very different this month so I am recording in the mornings. That explains my zombie-like appearance.
Hmmmm....
I really hate Krypto
Krypto is the best.
Really you hate krypto ? So there can be nothing goofy in comics?
I wasn’t a fan of Byrne’s MOS Loved he’s run on X-Men and FF and he did a great Namor run
I remember really liking him on FF. I have to read that stuff again.
Instead of re-reading Crisis you could listen to the Graphic Audio full cast dramatization. It's good.
I didn’t know that existed. I will seek it out.
I absolutely disagree with your synopsis sir
Many do.
I love John Byrne's art..but his storytelling (when he's not working collaboratively) isn't so great. This book and Alpha Flight being two notable examples.
I haven’t read Alpha Flight in forever. I should pick up the omnibus…or maybe not…
Wow I disagree so much with this video. Basically, never try something new with a character which was the entire mandate of the Crisis. You just want status quo forever