So, what are your thoughts on the video? Do you agree with my take on the characters? Disagree? Let me know in the comments below as I do my best to read and respond to as many comments as possible. As always, thanks for watching!
Well I was watching I realize in the Archie comics in the new sonic comics at show how evil he is how much death and destruction he’s willing to do look at what he’s done in Archie comic
Yes. The Chaos Council really did not do it for me. They felt too one-note and stereotypical. Reminded too much like the Deadly Six. I rather see the Koopalings than these guys, at least I have *some* personality. (Particularly in the Mario RPG games)
What annoys me the most is how much they overuse the baby one. I think they’re even aware of it since Sonic himself complained about it and grew tired of him.
Honestly the only thing I hated about the baby was the part where it got super powerful in its tantrum, beat up all the jungle heroes up and forced Sonic to return with the Shard to help them. That's such an asspull it hurts.
@@Corvolet5 That and the fact that the baby is such a poorly written Impulsive Psychopath. Even Enerjak Knuckles (The Knuckles who got consumed by the powers of Enerjak) is a better written Psychopath
Considering sage, it makes sense that they would only be kind to "his children" yes "his" Thinking about chaos sonic, chaos sonic and dr bubble may be the opposites of metal sonic and sage in a sense.
I don’t hate the Chaos Council, I think they’re fine for what they are. But they don’t hold a candle to the original Dr. Ivo “Eggman” Robotnik himself. Although Mr. Dr. Eggman does have his moments, although seldomly. You’re right though about it being cooler if instead of these five, we did have a more tyrannical and merciless Dr. Eggman that lacked the small amount of humanity that normal Dr. Eggman has.
I believe the entire gag with sonic prime’s whole use of alternate versions of characters. Is split up traits to begin with so without the mix of traits bouncing off each other, the more flawed parts end up being much more noticeable and some of them are gonna hit more at home by having the main trait more then the rest. Also kind of under the impression that egg man ‘nega’ was suppose to be a more ruthless version of egg man, but they kind of butchered story continuity to begin with in all the games and besides comics which is yet another continuity, it’s a hassle to have solid details. Anyway if sonic prime does go for a very extended period, they could easily pull this council either merging back together somewhat or other members vanishing and then changing in drastic ways due to lacking certain traits of egg man ‘prime’ that would normally hold them back. Which is one of the many tropes the whole split into multiple beings trope seems to lean into, especially with defining traits for each of them. Anyway, least it’s fun to think of these things, especially if the show is already not against the idea of one of the alternate selves of one of the ‘good guys’ can actually get malicious intentions due to the circumstances of the story. Which one could imagine how far they can even stretch that once they get into some other worlds being included which I assume will definitely have more of them show up, if the show gets more seasons.
@@SirDavid290He's Eggman's descendant; and he's pretty resentful of the fact that his ancestor's constant failures have left their mark on the Robotnik name, thus leaving him with a poor reputation that has driven him to seek the world's destruction.
@@videogollumer Him being "Eggman's descendant" is a retcon, not his original Origin. He is actually the Eggman of the Sol Dimension as stated in Sonic Rush Duology. Sonic Rivals did Eggman Nega dirty
i think that each eggman is meant to represent each shatterverse instead of a side of eggman because egg yolk is the only shatterverse that has eggmans and there are five
It’s more like each one is one fifth of the original Eggman. Done it being the aging and cranky attitude, Deep being the showboat and cocky tendencies, Don’t being the apathy and depression, Babble being the tendency to melt down into a rage when things go wrong, and rage in general, and Mister being the intellect.
@@pandora5051shadow shouldnt have had his chaos powers protect him. Imagine 5 dofferent shatter versions of shadow or him just traveling through the shatter verse like sonic. Thqt way you could bring in silver and make him another shadow variant as they both use telekinesis and sorta look like each other, he's then shadows innocent side who's willing to help sobic and you could make mephistelis the dark the pure evil version of shadow ect, you could easy cast then as different versions of shadow who represent a different side of him. And then a metal shadow working for eggman instead of metal sonic for his serious side ect.
What if the writers are holding back a special detail where it’s like the Shatterverse slowly falling apart, and then once Sonic puts the Paradox Prism, the Choas Council actually proves there sinister existence because they all become a complete Eggman, and then start blowing up the shatterverses, PS: the Prism Titan Eggman was the one thing that made me laugh crazily…
The 5 Eggmen can't merge. They're all from New Yolk, just clones of each other. Its not explained why the other shatter spaces have no Eggman of their own.
kaiju eggman was probably one of the top ten moments in sonic history for me, the execution of it mixed with the sheer goofiness from it makes it just perfect
The thing is, the Chaos Council is setup in a way that a tiny little change would AUTOMATICALLY make them better. Mr Dr Eggman is kept more back in the begining and starts to lead the group more in the second season. They could have easily made four funny characters and then to balance the scale, make one of them the actual evil one. Make Mr Dr Eggman so cruel that even the other members fear to say something against him. The writers even try to do something like this with the "bigger robots vs a completely new idea" but they don't commit to it. All the villains get played for jokes and as a result are taken as jokes by the audience. That and just funnier jokes for the council. That would fix SO MANY problems. At least we could laugh at them being bad.
I love the idea of this; four comedic puppet leaders that are put front and centre, lulling the residents and audience into a false sense of security...then we get the head honcho in Mr. Dr., working in the shadows, but when he comes out, he's the reason you should fear the very mention of the name "Dr. Eggman" or "the Chaos Council"
I feel like the whole purpose of the Chaos Council is to be fodder for the twist villain. The premise of New Yoke City is menacing until you actually meet the Chaos Council. Then you see the weak humor of each member while seeing Nine slowly rising towards power. Chaos Sonic was meant to remove any suspicion of Nine as he is genuinely afraid of what was created and was a threat to Sonic. The Chaos Council getting stronger through more Shatter power and rivaling Shadow caused people to think that they finally mean business with the giant Dr. Eggman cementing them as the sole antagonists until Nine ruins Sonic’s victory by saying his intentions to him like it’s okay with him. The suspicion on Nine is further hidden as Sega always failed pitting Tails against Sonic (Lost World and Archie issues 178-9). The “twist fodder” syndrome of putting a weak villain in the center to build up a twist villain was used with very little success, because even if the twist villain was great, wasting our time with a uninteresting or annoying villain isn’t good.
I actually had a much better idea called the Robo-Egg Force. it's literally alternate versions of Eggman/Robotnik from all of the alternate continuities. but they're actually made more threatening by combining their intellect together in an attempt to rule the multiverse.
@@thepjshow that's why I made it. imagine every version Robotnik/Eggman in one group. Eggman Prime, AOSTH Robotnik, SatAM Robotnik, Underground Robotnik, Archie Robotnik, Fleetway Robotnik, OVA Robotnik, X Eggman, Boom Eggman and Movie Robotnik. all of them together, using their combined technology to rule the multiverse.
@@cherrybombwaffles518Except Anti-Robotnik from Moebius. That one is Robotnik with a morality flip and personality flip, so he and the other Robotniks/Eggmans would fight each other
@@cherrybombwaffles518 Nope, Anti-Robotnik won't get along with other Robotniks/Eggmans due to morality flip. Anti-Robotnik is supposed to be a Force for Good. He has dealt with Scourge who also did things that Eggman always does including the mistreatment of Buns Rabbot/Anti-Omega which is the Moebian version of Eggman's mistreatment towards his Omega and ruining the world with his Imperialism and Sadism
I actually don't mind the chaos council as villans sure they aren't the best villans ever but i don't hate them i think they are pretty okay i just hope that they take a back seat for a bit and let Nine become the villan because i think they can do some very interesting stuff with it
I had a similar outlook during the first season, but with the extra screentime from the second season, I grew to dislike them as villains. Hopefully Nine really makes up for it.
The whole "Its for kids" argument really doesn't work because we have seen cartoon villains for kids shows be terrifying and monstrous and well written. Slade from Teen Titans was horrifying as he not only could beat the TT in a fight most of the time, he was intelligent enough to always get the better and outsmart them, only really losing in the end when his greatest apprentice fought back and managed to kill him and prior to this, Terra won and he succeeded in taking over the city. 2003 and 2012 Shredder were also monsterous, 03 Shredder was a (literal) inhuman monster who was sadistic even to his allies. Every time Baxter Stockman failed him, Shredder would remove a body part until Baxter was just a brain in a jar and he traumatized Leo (much like Slade did to Robin). In Adventure Time we get the Lich who is basically a horror villain who somehow found his way to a goofy show like Adventure Time. You go from the Ice King stealing princesses to get a date to a literal force of nature trying to eradicate all life and at one point skinning his former adversary alive and walking around in their corpse to trick Finn and they even made the goofy Ice King tragic and when an alternate Finn gets the crown, he is actually terrifying. Essentially, kids media has been able to create threatening and terrifying villains despite the show normally being more silly and light hearted. Teen Titans could have an episode where Beast Boy fights a Tofu Alien followed by an episode where Robin nearly kills himself in an hallucinogenic frenzy brought on by Slade from beyond the grave. Adventure Time could have Finn and Jake being annoyed by formerly frozen Lawyers and in the next episode, The Lich (still in a stolen corpse), wakes up and kills a sleeping old man with a single minded hatred for life in particular and I don't even need to go into how silly TMNT can get. The normal silliness of a kids show can be used to great effect to really highlight the seriousness of a scary or threatening villain, where its no longer fun and games when they arrive and its been done in kids cartoons before so you can't use that as an excuse now. Kids in the past got awesome villains, shouldn't kids today get some too?
Dark Oak is a prime Sonic example. The Metarex Council containing Pale Bay Leaf, Black Narcissuss, Red Pine, Yellow Zelcova and Dark Oak himself is what the Chaos Council wish to be ngl.
Not to mention this was made by Man of Action, aka the people who made OG Ben 10 and, by extension, Vilgax, Zs’Skayr, and Kevin 11, all of whom are excellent examples of villains who don’t have much more to them than pure evil, but still manage to be compelling despite that.
@@is17a985 I don’t disagree, but both of them came from Alien Force, a show not headed by Man of Action. Classic Ghostfreak was still a very menacing, imposing presence, even with his limited screen time.
I actually like the Chaos Council, and I liked them even more in season 2, since they now have the ability to travel to other shatter spaces. Granted, I feel like the baby and teenager were unnecessary inclusions, but I don't really dislike them.
@@donathan2933 we hate dr babble the other 4 have there moments to be funny atleast to me the only i laugh when dr babble is onscreen is when sonic send him flying away
@@kingtiger5040 That and he is also just as nerfed as he is in IDW. Flynn did say that IDW Shadow and Prime Shadow are the same thanks to the "Prime and IDW Shadow are canon to the games"
i think they're fun. i actually appreciate the contrast between how pleak new yoke is and how goofy the chaos council are. i also love the generational eggman idea and think their mech designs are really cool. Dr. Babble's mech in particular seems like a really interesting boss that i'd love to fight.
I heard a lot of people defending the comedy of the Chaos Council saying "Comedy is subjective" and to that I say: "I'm gonna find your house and have an hour long discussion with you" I'm so sick of that excuse. Yes comedy is subjective, but so is music and art, and people are still here giving number scores. Chaos Council's comedy is literally just we have an emo kid, an old man, an annoying baby, and a guy who likes yoga. That's it.
It would have been way cooler if Eggman also had variants across each shatter space like all the other characters. Then have the Eggman of New Yoke City start travelling the shatterverse and gathering the other Eggmen, then forming the chaos council with the multiversal Robotniks. Just an idea.
I genuinely think they are good characters. Not perfect, but good. They aren’t really terrifying, but they do show multiple glimpses of genuine competence. I think ironically the thing that’s keeping them from being truly threatening is each other. They were able to take over Green hill because they were able to divide and conquer. And in that case the whole theory about them each being parts of Dr. Eggman’s character makes more sense, because he’s literally the main thing holding himself back besides Sonic. I really like the bickering, but more from a character narrative perspective. It’s interesting to see how their plans form, and how each of them has some level of autonomy rather than having one eggman talking down to lower minions about his plans and maybe being slightly influenced. It’s kind of like seeing into Dr. Eggman’s mind Also they do offer more unique combat variation for action scenes so that’s also a plus.
I was going to say this anyway, but I think you hit the nail on the head by the end of the video: Nine is the real villain of the series. The Chaos Council are just the warmup, villains that Sonic can fight without remorse. From the beginning, though, Nine has been built up as a character the audience isn't quite sure they can trust. Considering that he shows his true colors by the end of second act, I think it's pretty clear that he will be the main antagonist moving forward...assuming the writers know what they're doing, of course.
They literally could’ve just made the chaos council homages to earlier designs and different interpretations of eggman with more serious personalities. Doctor deep could’ve acted like movie robotnik, dr babble could’ve looked like comic robotnik, the old one (forgot his name cba) could’ve been a reference to the 1991 version etc. it would’ve been easier and such a cool callback too. It was literally right there in front of their faces and they let it slip through their fingers
I really feel like if we had to get multiple Eggmen teaming up then it could’ve been better if it was the Eggman of each of the three Shatterverses. An Emperor Eggman, who could be like a callback to SatAM Robotnik, from New Yoke, a Pirate Eggman from No Place, and a more primal-like Eggman from Boscage who, thanks to the shards of the Prism and maybe also through Sonic’s actions, happen to meet and decide to team up to take over everything but all three of them are planning to stab each other in the back and take it all for themselves
Honestly, I think they're decent, they aren't a huge threat, but they do a good job at being an obstacle to Sonic's goal, and I find the interaction between them kinda funny at time, especially between old Eggman and millenial Eggman
Prob doesn’t help that since they are suppose to be cartoon level villians they aren’t suppose to be overly amazing, villain of the week type stories are best when you have simple baddies, especially if you want to have them for later episodes. Make a villain to brilliant and then you wonder why they haven’t curb stomped earlier, leave it for once they get a mc’guffin to super charge them or bring them to a more ruthless motif, that’s where you wanna have it for turning points in a story, especially for the last few episodes. And if a villain is full ruthless every episode, then your gonna get tired of them real easily. So yeah, unless they plan to make it a short series, its better they have a rogues gallery to rotate between that have flaws, then a Omni big bad that will pull a Batman Arkham city mr freeze and disable the main character ability to use previous actions against him, forcing the show to get even more stupid and ‘plot convienent’ to continue taking on the Omni beeg bad, who hasn’t decided to just turn the floor into quick sand and set glue traps on all the walls to solve it In one go, despite being this ruthless beeg bad.
"They do a good job at being an obstacle to Sonic's goal" is exactly how I feel about them. I don't think Prime needs a threatening villain per se, and I think the Chaos Council provide a solid way of giving Sonic something to fight against while keeping the character focus more on Sonic's interactions with the Shatterverse versions of his friends
Honestly I could care less about their personalities, for me it’s more that unlike the other characters they were for some reason grouped in the same shatterverse together, like what? It just seems a little odd given how the other characters were separated across dimensions, if they did that we probably could have gotten better variations of Eggman besides him being a baby for some reason
I felt my brain rotting every second the baby or teenager was onscreen. The other's weren't much better. S2 had a great 1st and last 2 episodes but the pacing in between was awful.
Am i the only one here that genuinely likes the Chaos Council? I think theyre funny... except the baby he actually scares me. The generation humor is funny to me, honestly Doctor Done'it being the Logical one (or asleep) is my favorite gag in the show. I also find Doctor Dont just as intimidating as i find Babble and possibly the funniest, his lack actual care, his abilities to control & switch bots at will, his anti-humor (i find it funny that he doesn't) Im gonna be honest the whole group are some of my favorite Sonic Villians. (Though none of them are in the top 3 and never will be, those are for nostalgia)
Yeah I also really like them. They are comedic without taking away from them being a threat. Sonic treats them as such multiple times in both Seasons. He only begins to be cocky when he is winning against them, which is no different from the Sonic we know from the games.
@@Xxandrew01 Tell me about it; also, the regular Eggman hasn't exactly been very interesting lately, with a few exceptions. Either he's an unsympathetic Doofenshmirtz or a one-dimensional omnicidal psychopath. Frontiers is the first time in along time where he's been like the Eggman we knew from the Adventure and Dark eras.
@@rickyrackey7930 Oh yeah. About possession. They could have made a Silver clone that can control people's minds and make them fight his enemies. Think of An Anti-Silver type of antagonist (The antithesis of Silver in terms of morals and personality)
Honestly, the idea you had for a single eggman sounds great. Heck, it could be something that could harken back to the Sat AM Robotnik, the version of eggman who's most like this
I think my personal favorite thing is how they actually made Dr. Don’t is a solid fighter in Season 2. He’s got the potential to be like, a slasher villain. Imagine fighting a stage enemy, and then one of them isn’t just an autopilot AI, but instead being controlled by a genius… and then once it’s popped? It could just jump to a different robot. It’s a sick concept honestly!! But they probably should have actual Shatterverse eggmen or Eggman based on different era’s… but I dunno. EDIT: he’s basically the sonic version of Conner from Detroit become Human
Honestly I like them. "I just think they're neat" The jokws between them are somewhat relatable, I like how each of them has their own "thing" they do, I like how they are not a perfect unit together and they do have their friction. I'd say my favourites are Dr. Don't and Dr. Done it (The teen and the old man) The most boring one is Mr. Doctor Eggman. I mean, he is the closest one to our own Eggman. I like our normal eggman a lot but the way I see it, you have an excuse to do something fun and wacky here, and you just do Eggman 2.0 Boom Eggman was more fun.
The Chaos Council Where to begin, oh where to begin. I guess the first thing I should say is that I like them. I like that there are five of them. That they are different and get on each other’s nerves. I think they are entertaining. And most importantly I think they are the perfect antagonists for this show in particular. Are they threatening? I would say yes, they are. One thing you have to remember is that New Yoke is a universe where Sonic never existed. It showed the council moving in with their terrifying robots completely unopposed. They work from the shadows during this first invasion and let their robots do most of the building and later the policing. What powered these robots? THE RED SHARD! These Doctors possess something the original Eggman did not. What is essentially the heart of this particular universe and it gives them the power to make armies of robots without having to rely on using little animal creatures to power them (if that is a detail that matters to you). They are an overwhelming force to the denizens of New Yoke and not matter how many they take out, there will be more to replace them. It wasn’t until Nine took the shard that they started powering down, giving the resistance the chance to try to take back their land. However as soon as the council returned with a new power source, they were quickly subjugated again. I stated the above to give you a sense of believability. The chaos council are able to set aside their differences when it comes to conquering then dividing. Their intellect and inventions are a credible threat despite the comedic bickering that goes on in the background. And even they aren’t pushovers by themselves. Doctor Babble is a Wrecking Ball with his Titan of a mech suit, and his tendency for temper tantrums. Dr. Don’t is a gamer, a top down to first person strategist who will look at the playing field and then possess individual robots to give them an edge. Dr. Deep is a scalpel. He will take problems head on and is more offensive than defensive. He’s not inside a mech suit 100% protected like Dr. Babble, his head and arms are exposed and he will cut you down with his samurai swords. You can chalk it up to pride and ego, but he’s the only one that wants to be up close and personal without hiding in a ship or in a fully covered suit. Dr. Done-It plays the long con. He takes his time before making a decision and sees the problem from all angles. He doesn’t let his hot temper blind him from reason. “The Varmint makes sense.” He’s the one that was able to get the council to see past their differences and work together to begin with. To me, despite being an old man, he’s the most threatening because he doesn’t appear as such in the surface. Mr. Dr. Eggman is the leader. He’s the most ambitious and the driving force behind the other council member’s actions. He craves power, and will user whatever new technology or tools that come his way to get more of it. First it was Sonic himself, then capturing Nine and using him (and even tricking him), then using prism shards to create rifts to the other shatterverses. He doesn’t care about the consequences as long as it’s he who stands on top in the end, which makes him a danger not just to his enemies but his allies and himself. Now I think this goes a long way to describing why I think the Chaos Council are threatening villains. But a good villain has to be both threatening and entertaining. This is where it gets harder because humor is subjective. A baby that could go off any second and has malicious tendencies to literally beat his enemies into pulp or cut him down with saw blades is hilarious to me. I enjoy the one liners from the other council members. Dr. Done-It calling Yoga “Yogurt” is silly but makes me laugh. And Dr. Deeps line ‘Let’s Slaughter them. But, you know, for the evil, not to eat. I’m 100% vegan,” gave me a real chuckle. But like I said humor is subjective. and if a joke makes you groan as opposed to chuckle in can turn you off of the character. Even so, for the short run this series is going to have, I think the idea of splitting the villains up to have more diversity and for plot convenience was the right move. Also they can sell more playsets this way. Hey, I can be just as honest with the rest of ya. I still stand by that I find them to be good villains. Nine, though, is my favorite character. And hero, villain, or in-between, I can’t wait to see where his character goes next.
The weirdest part for me was that the baby offered to split the city into different districts. Name one baby that voluntarily shares his stuff! PS: PJ I wanted to ask you what you think about Sonic X. For me I like the show but I hate the human characters, except from Eggman
Mister Doctor Eggman: “AH! My Toupee!!!” SATAM Robotnik: “ *A nice dream, but dreams are meant to be…BROKEN* “ Now, tell me which Eggman we *SHOULD* have gotten.
What if the Chaos Council was instead a reflection of the past iterations of Dr. Eggman from alternate media? (Apologies in advance if any naming sounds cringe.) -Dr. Nega (Eggman Nega - just to help tie into the games a bit) -Dr. Data (OVA Robotnik - a combination of Classic Eggman & Black Eggman) -Dr. Doofus (AoSTH Robotnik - comic relief done right if the writing is up to snuff) -Dr. Dark (SatAM Robotnik - legitimate threat and rage, the executioner of the Council) -Mr. Dr. Eggman (Movie Robotnik - the name could fit quite well with this iteration)
Here's an interesting question: How could they have been *salvaged* ? Keeping to the "basic rules" for each one's basic setup, how might each have been modified so as to be better managed?
Better designs, off the bat. After that, if we're keeping them more one-note, then go all in on their respective notes: Dr.Babble should be pretty much fully confined to a more Sonic 1/2/3 styled mech, Dr.Deep should have been all in on the philosophy and/or samurai deal (Think Monsoon from MGRR), Dr.Don't should be something akin to a robobrain as having gone the farthest into their tech side (And regretting the loss of humanity, hence the emo deal), Dr.Done It just needs to lean more into serious Mr.Burns/less into comedic Mr.Burns, and Mr.Dr.Eggman should have been the closest to SATAM Robotnik (Having gotten serious, and being the smartest out of the group).
I think giving them each unique motivations and backstories within the Shatterverse would have helped immensely with having character beyond just their stereotypes. Even if there wasn't much screen time given to that, it'd still give the writers something to enrich their personalities.
I think the Chaos Council as villains are ok not amazing or anything I like the deadly six better. Dr. done it is probably my favorite, his design kind of reminds me of gerald robotnik’s design.
My nephew and I LOVE the show, and I plan on showing this video to him later because he LOVES analysis and theory/prediction videos with the things he likes 💕
I agree with Sonic on this one: "Give me the old man for once!" Not only does he look like Robotnik (Classic Eggman, possibly implying this is a bad future of sorts supporting the city's aesthetics,) but also strangely acts more like the Eggman we know than Mr. Dr. Eggman.
Another way of fixing the Chaos Council without losing the general idea (that of several eggmen at the same time)is to really add more distinction between the five, and ensure they have their own identity in terms of machineries, to further emphasize on one theme: Synergy. The idea is to make them look scary because they're several ones at the same time (I'll let you know that Eggman all by himself could conquer and enslave planets just for an amusement park), instead of just being Eggman from five different perspectives.
I don't know why they didn't just do eggman in different universes instead of making 5 eggmans with different age in one dimention. It's really strange
I'm really glad Nine was the season 3 villain, because he was way more threatening and interesting than this goofy cartoon villains that look like Eggman
Prime's director: "So, for Sonic Prime, can we get five of the most menacing versions of Dr. Eggman from different continuities? Like, have Sonic facing IDW Eggman, SatAM Robotnik, Fleetway Robotnik, Movie Robotnik and Archie Eggman all at once?" Prime's producer: "We could, but it's going to cost us $50000 to smooth over any legal and copyright issues." Prime's director: "Damn, that's like almost all our budget. What can we get for $5000?" Prime's producer: "Eggman with a toupee, a grumpy preteen, a senile old fart, a hippy and a baby." Prime's director : "It'll do."
personally i wish the chaos council were the many members of the Robotnik family; not just 5 versions of Eggman; Ivo, Geralt Robotnik, Maria, Steve robotnik and maybe Eggman Nega. there was prolly a better plot opportunity with them; i know Shadow would get ptsd by seeing a evil Maria
The Chaos Council is *fine*, but I do wish we just got the obvious option of Eggman having variations of himself in each world, and that ay not only would we have a better main villain from the futuristic world, but some of them wouldn’t even be villains (probably), and we’d get to see the interesting character breakdown we got from the other characters
I honestly kinda disagree. I didn’t mind the chaos council and despite everything that people have said about them, I actually think they mesh together really well. Yeah sure, maybe their comedy didn’t land all the time and Dr. Babble fluctuates between being my favorite and my least favorite, but over all, I didn’t mind them. And they’ve shown that they are pretty competent since they were the closest to defeating Sonic and reaching their goal (at least to my knowledge) Granted I know that Nine is probably gonna out shine them as villains, but the Chaos Council legit had me thinking “How is Sonic gonna get outta this one?” at some points. TLDR: While not the best villains, they surprisingly had the most competence I’ve seen of an Eggman yet. Also I like their banter.
I think the council had two HUGE missed opportunities: 1. Have them be an "Egg Family" - dr. Done it is Mr. Dr. Eggman's dad or Gerald Robotnik, Deep is his cousin, and, and the other two are his kids, this could have given them some neat interactions and more individuality. 2. Have Sage from Frontiers, - This would have been a great way to cross promote Frontiers, and she could have been a serious straight-man to the antics of the rest of the council, with only Mr. Dr. Eggman being the other comptent character. Also, where did he get Eggman, since Sonic gives him the nickname usually, and he not supposed to exsist in that Shatter verse?
The whole "Eggman is a nickname Sonic gave him" only exists in the English dub of Sonic Adventure to introduce western audiences to the name. He's been Eggman since Sonic 1 in Japan.
The Chaos Council are supposed to be underdeveloped villains because they are each parts of eggman's personality. They don't have much impact because of that, Eggman isn't complete without everything.
My hot take from after watching the series was that the Chaos Council are all separate personalities that make up the big man himself. On paper its a good idea, and I like the idea, and I didn't think they were terrible characters. Poorly executed yes, but not terrible overall
The only one of the Chaos Council I like is Dr. Deep solely for his mech suit that normal Eggman needs to be pulling up in. Other than that, they're all just worse versions of Eggman. I would have preferred if each shatter verse maybe has its own Robotnik and the New Yoke one being inspired by Satam Robotnik, being a cruel and cunning dictator.
If they were set on the Council of Eggs idea than they probably would’ve benefitted from pulling different Eggman’s/Robotnik from across series. A more serious and threatening council consist of SATAM, Archie, Classic and 06, all being, in my opinion, the most terrifying versions of Eggman/Robotnik (minus Adventures Eggman cause his designs matches too much/entirely with the “main” Eggman in Prime, unless they went with the promo art design which would be cool) or for a more comedic council it can consist of Boom, Sonic X, The Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog and the Black Knight versions of him with Mr Doctor Eggman still leading them. This is just how I would go about the idea of the Egg Council.
I genuinely think that the Chaos Council being so incompetent and having so much friction sells new yolk even more. Without Sonic, or mostly anybody standing up to injustice, those 5 dorks have managed to enslave the entire city. Without some glimer of hope, Green Hill could be totally transformed by some random guy with a steam roller. Plus, the fact that those 5 people are ruling New Yolk is more distopian than a super evil eggman... incompetent people in charge is always a more terrifying thought than any competent person, because at least the competent person understands the fallout of their actions, while the incompetent simply do as they please without a single thought to what the consequences, or even more terrifyingly, misunderstanding the concequences. I dont think that the Chaos Council needs to be threatening in the mustache twirling kind of way. Its moreso that you cant tell the amount of misery they'll cause once they get the prism, because even they dont know how much misery theyll be able to cause. And honesty, thats pretty dystopian.
This group of age-displaced Eggmen is a case of "good on paper, bad in execution" for many of the reasons mentioned in this video. Mostly, they end up one-note, hard to take seriously, and redundant. I'm just bitter that we didnt get a pirate or jungle Eggman because of them. And yes, a truly fearsome, bad future New Yoke Eggman ala SatAM would have been really cool too. Pirate and Jungle Eggman could have been the comic reliefs while New Yoke has the true threat.
As For me, I find Chaos Council very interesting. They are funny and add fun to the events. I love their characters, especially Dr. Babble. I find him funny. I used to see Eggman as annoying, foolish, and thoughtless, but after 2010 I changed my mind. I wanted the original Eggman back until he came. Ian Flynn is the savior, cool, handsome, he fixed everything in the Sonic franchises including Eggman (even though I don't like his character in the comics) he even fixed the Deadly Six too so they're even better than the Chaos Council and I hope to see them again in games . The Chaos Council only exist as enemies, while the real villain of the series is Nine
For every "thing" that people hate, there's at least one person that genuinely likes it. The wonder of having an opinion. (I'm not insulting you, by the way. Just sayin')
Just a wild theory that is probably wrong, but maybe all the Eggmen being in one place, not spread out like everyone else, is because of Eggman's sheer willpower so not fracturing as much. Maybe it's so strong each other Eggman is just a fraction of what he is, and Mr Dr Eggman is still a majority of the original, explaining why he stands out so much, and why he created Kaiju Eggman, as deep down he is aware of who he truly is.
This is the first I've heard of this show existing and I know absolutely nothing about it but going off the concept that there is a "Shatterverse", it leads me to believe that there will be an arc where Sonic has to save the original Dr. Eggman by 'fusing' the Chaos Council together somehow.
Eggman is mostly entertaining when he has someone to talk and show off his ego when he not up against the heroes. Him talking to himself while fun get old and orbot and Cubot are just there to make him look smart. Eggman and Starline interactions in the Idw comics were great as he loves being praised and eggman leadership over the eggbosses in the Archie comic were great as he was in charge but clearly no one respected him. With the council we basically have all of those. He talks to himself, they all believe they are the smartest, they constantly show off their ego and while they work together they each believe they are superior than the other. It why I like it when eggman works with people, he not just constantly surrounded by robots. Eggman need people to run an empire but has to deal with people who not programmed to kiss his feet. And him having to learn and share with himself is actually pretty funny.
The Chaos Council is Prime at it's worst. Prime at it's best, like Frontiers, is the characters interacting with and learning from Sonic. It's why I'm excited to see the inevitable clash between Sonic and Nine, because it'll be the most emotionally charged moment of the series. Also, TINY nitpick, but "Pingas" was from Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog, not SatAM.
Hi.I'm Deuce Lair(call me Deuce-Meister).Huge fan of yours.When are you making a character analysis of Rouge of Sonic Prime characters like Sonic,Chaos Sonic and Nine?You're my hero,dude.
Well, Deuce-Meister, I haven't quite figured out exactly when I want to do the Rouge analysis, but it's looking like it's gonna be the next main character analysis. I honestly think I might just cover all of the Prime characters in one big review of Sonic Prime at some point. And thank you for the kind words!
@@thepjshow You're really welcome,sir.I really can't wait for see if you make a video on Movie Shadow. It’s been a pleasure watching your videos.Gracias for commenting,it's an honor to talk to you.
I admit, I actually don’t have that much of a bone to pick with these guys. I think it has a lot to do with the performance, actually - while all five are pretty much the 1D caricatures they’re introduced as all the way through, watching them interact is nonetheless quite enjoyable. A surprising number of their conversations feel really organic (at least in the sense that it feels like people bickering and not a script being read back and forth), and the caricatures aren’t so completely binding as to be obnoxious all the time; I especially enjoy Dr. Deep and Dr. Dunnit having heated generational arguments over a steering wheel, or Dr. Dont occasionally dropping the emo “I paused my game to be here” act and getting annoyed like an actual person when things don’t go to plan. Are these guys well-written by any stretch? I wouldn’t argue so. But I believe they have enough going for them to still be fun.
Honestly, I like the idea of the Chaos Council in theory. Each one basically represents a facet if Eggman's personality and they're more capable as a team than as individuals. But that also creates the problem where they each feel kind of incomplete. At least the Shatterverse versions of the other characters fee not just distinct but also like their own characters. The Chaos Council, by comparison, feel almost hollow. With the sole exception being Mr. Doctor Eggman who feels closest to the original.
Sonic X, obviously 1) Its an anime 2) It had effort put into it 3) It feels the least like a cringy fan fic (which makes sense considering its a Japanese series and not an US one)
This was a really well done analysis! Great job! After looking back on my experience with Sonic Prime and applying your points, yeah... The Chaos Council are really not great villains. Compared to villains like Sephiroth from Final Fantasy 7 and Muzan Kibutsuji from Demon Slayer, these guys really fall short. Honestly, I found them more annoying than actually threatening. However, for some reason I think this was done on purpose since, as we all know, Nine is right there. Right now, I'm really hoping they do Nine justice. Right now he has the potential to be possibly one of the greatest villains of all time-- not just in Sonic but on a general scale. If they mess this up, I will be very upset. In fact, I hope that the spotlight is taken away from the Chaos Council completely, since I feel like they will only hinder the potential that Nine has. So, again, here's to hoping that Nine will receive justice.
tbh, I thought that Mr. Dr. Eggman would kill all the other members. that would have made him such a ruthless monster, which is accurate to eggman and is the best take. also, if you like grim Eggmen, then you'd probably like Sonic The Comic (post-issue 7)
@@kingtiger5040sure, eggman can have his hilarious moments, but he's still ruthless. Satam robotnik in my opinion was overly ruthless but that was the point. the ruthlessness added to the grim atmosphere. I would take an overly ruthless villain over the chaos council any day, because the chaos council isn't even funny
@@iheartbacon76True, remember when in SATAM that Eggman scares Snively by abusing him 24/7? Mister Dr Eggman should do the same and abuse the entire council all because he hates other humans (misanthropy) and only wants himself as a human ruler
@@iheartbacon76 Fun Fact: This show is made by Man of Action. Their credits include Mega Man: Fully Charged, Ben 10: Omniverse, and Ultimate Spider-Man.
Honestly and personally speaking, I would prefer the no-holding back version of Dr.Eggman you were talking about in video over the Chaos Council any day. I have question regarding this version of Eggman. Would he work better as the typical, card-carrying villian we are used to seeing…or would he work better as complete monster instead? The latter trope maybe too extreme for children to handle, but it makes sense for the character of the no-holding back Eggman.
That's why i think that they're not gonna be The Main Villains, I think Nine might end up as The True Antagonist! Can you make a character Analysis vid on Nine and Chaos Sonic?
I am gonna make analysis videos on Nine, Chaos Sonic, Shadow and even Sonic (though I will wait for the third season for their character arcs to be completed)
There's typically three types of character arcs in stories and media and it could be the main selling point the characters themselves. There's: the Positive Character arc, Negative character arc, and Stagnant character arc. The Positive Character Arc could be a villain or someone not necessarily a villain improving themselves and changing their dark or wrong outlook on topics and actions. A few protagonists and side characters can go through or start off on a Positive Character Arc. You could think of a few examples. But they can necessarily turn to a Negative Character Arc later. The Negative Character Arc could be a hero or someone not necessarily a hero becoming very bad and doing the wrong things leading to them becoming a bad guy. Most antagonists and side characters go through or necessarily ends on this Negative Character Arc. You could think of a few examples. However they could have started from a Positive Character Arc. Now there's the Stagnant Character Arc. This can be anyone in story and their role could be anything. A large amount of characters and stories have this. Including protagonists and antagonists. From beginning to end these characters are necessarily the same. They didn't have anything to learn from the start because they began from a point where their characters didn't need anything else. Characters such as Goku, Frieza, Kirito, and Ichigo all are like this. As the story continues they learn new things and progress and they aren't necessarily the same but if you look back, the person they are fundamentally the same. People say this character arc is bad or this is why these characters shouldn't be liked. But stories with these characters are needed because sometimes it literally is just the way it is. And that's a good thing. It doesn't mean that the story is lacking in some capacity, it's just that it wanted things to be straight forward for you to know who these characters are meant to be. Sure this may be weaker than the other arcs but it's just as much needed in a great tale. 👍
The majority of characters in Sonic Prime will be in a Stagnant Character Arc. Like the Chaos Council, New Yolk Amy, Knuckles and Rouge, almost- all of the Forest variants, all of the Pirate variants, Chaos Sonic and Shadow. (Now I know Shadow has changed his mind on a few stuff and he progressed but he didn't change to a Positive Character Arc because he never was on the wrong side. It was just his actions on an activity he wanted to hold out on before Sonic changed his mind. Shadow is on a Stagnant Character Arc. It may make it sound like nothing's happening to him but like I said earlier it's not quite as stagnant as the name makes it sound.) There's actually three characters in the series who were never on a Stagnant Character Arc. Sonic, Nine Tails, and Thorny Rose. Sonic is currently on a positive character arc as he's learning just how much things he had right before him before they're all gone, to then later care for them and appreciate. Nine turned to a negative character arc since his tragic backstory and to when he was first introduced. He has been helpful and seemed to be a friend but his outlook and mental state was never better than how it was after his backstory. He may turn to a positive character arc in the end or may stay the way he is if Sonic can't get through to him. And then Thorny Amy turned to a negative character arc after the others in the forest didn't respect anything. And then she turned to a positive character arc right in front of our eyes and on a better path now.
Modern Sonic villains who are not Eggman(I mean, they are, but you get what I mean) suck? No way! It is really making me tired on some level, makes me really glad that Frontiers exists because even tho its villain is nothing particulary special writingwise, it is a bottle of cold water in the desert. 11:02 Yeah, the only games that were specifically aimed at an older audience were Shadow and Frontiers. The IP at large is definitly all ages leaning towards the kids-side. In general, people excuse poor quality with "It's made for kids!" way too often. It just goes towards the point of "So you are saying it sucks on purpose? Still means it sucks, bucko."
Although I don't think the Chaos Council is awful, I respect your opinion and you have some good points. I really like their comedy with each other, and it got more varied as each member split into teams of 2 (I especially like Dr. Done-It and Dr. Deep's banter). Even though they are more goofy takes, I think they put enough pressure on the heroes to still remain a threat at all times, like there was always something going on in Season 2 that kept Sonic on the move or kept him in an intense battle (maybe except for episode 1 since that focused on Sonic and Shadow). I also believe that the argument of all 5 of them representing different bits of Dr. Eggman's personality is intentional, because the first episode of Season 1 has a quote say "One makes five, five makes one!"
I’m not saying he’s not annoying. He fuck himself for all I care he’s really annoying so he can go kill himself but it’s just funny seeing Dr. Eggman as a baby and also in my personal head canon. He was the one that did most of the work do you wanna take over Greenhill zone and turn it into New York City.
Would it be wrong to say that I actually liked the Chaos Council? I've been watching the Sonic Prime series recently and I find the Council pretty nice and evil characters. And yes I even like Dr. Babble.
It's even worse when you realize they already did this "What if Eggman, but different realities" schtick with Eggman Nega from Blaze's world. I always kinda liked the idea of "What if" scenarios, as does Sonic as a franchise: Chaos is in its very DNA...both figuratively, and VERY literally. But I feel like, in this respect, the problem stems from them being 5 characters instead of just one. Speaking from experience, when writing a whole team, villainous or heroic, you're casting a wide net, and the issue therein is that, inevitably, some of the good stuff's gonna slip through the cracks and not everyone's gonna get their fair share (that was a clumsy metaphor, but I'm sure you get what I'm saying). In these clowns' case, they're focused too much on exaggerating the hallmark traits of Eggman instead of just...making another Eggman but with ONE of the qualities removed. Sounds ill-advised, but you'd be amazed how one small change can affect a character or even an entire story. "What if Tails leaned full tilt in to the machines and rejected the idea of organic companionship?" It changes up his entire dynamic, yes, but you could feasibly believe that version of the lovable yellow twin-tailed companion we all know and adore exists out there in another reality somewhere. I do not for a single solitary second believe that ANY member of the Chaos Council is a version of Eggman that exists in an alternate reality: they are, at best, brand new characters divorced from Eggman's identity, aside from sharing his likeness kinda... Btw, maybe Eggman level narcissism myself, but it's really cool hearing you mention my thoughts on *THAT* scene from Sonic Adventure 2...even if it's very likely I wasn't the first to bring it up, but I just thought it was cool, anyway, sooo...*shrug* ;)
This is my take on the chaos council. These are eggmen that never really evolved or changed since the beginning, because sonic didn't exist and their unstoppable rampage made these overinflated egotistical jerks more well.... egotistical. They never changed or adapted cause well... they didn't need to when they took over green hill to create new yolk city, it shows when they tried to make a solution to kill sonic, all they could ever come up with is making the robots bigger, cause they didn't have the same growth like the original eggman did. Only mr doctor eggman was aware of the situation and adapted, since he is more closely resembles the original eggman.
Honestly I would’ve been happier if we got a robotnik akin to the Archie comics and snivley. Instead of nine having no friends, he could had the freedom fighters without sonic. His downfall as a character is when they all turn into something like rusty rose. Instead of the bickering of the council, we could see the abusive dynamic between robotnik and snivley, with the robotizised freedom fighters taking over each realm. And in the end, instead of robotnik creating a whole big eggman, he could have a small suit he could control as if he’s like iron man. It would be on the same level as super sonic prime. Once he’s defeated (aka killed maybe) snivley could take advantage and take over for him, creating a cliffhanger that has him becoming the new villain, just like satam. Or maybe on top of that we could have nine also becoming a villain, as his goals is reverting his friends back to normal but needing all of the chaos shards power in order to do so. Just a thought tho
I swear towards the end of Season 2 I was expecting one one them to turn against the others and join Sonic. For some reason the old man seems most likely to me
![[free] yeat + lyfestyle + a dangerous lyfe type beat "pray"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FWRwyl3_8xA/mqdefault.jpg)
So, what are your thoughts on the video? Do you agree with my take on the characters? Disagree? Let me know in the comments below as I do my best to read and respond to as many comments as possible. As always, thanks for watching!
I love your videos
The six is not that bad in idw
All I can say is, Blame Canada for how the chaos council turned out.
Well I was watching I realize in the Archie comics in the new sonic comics at show how evil he is how much death and destruction he’s willing to do look at what he’s done in Archie comic
Yes. The Chaos Council really did not do it for me. They felt too one-note and stereotypical. Reminded too much like the Deadly Six. I rather see the Koopalings than these guys, at least I have *some* personality. (Particularly in the Mario RPG games)
What annoys me the most is how much they overuse the baby one.
I think they’re even aware of it since Sonic himself complained about it and grew tired of him.
Eh I like baby eggman. It's fun seeing him get beat up
Honestly the only thing I hated about the baby was the part where it got super powerful in its tantrum, beat up all the jungle heroes up and forced Sonic to return with the Shard to help them. That's such an asspull it hurts.
@@Corvolet5 That and the fact that the baby is such a poorly written Impulsive Psychopath. Even Enerjak Knuckles (The Knuckles who got consumed by the powers of Enerjak) is a better written Psychopath
@@Piggyplush85the joke is that the baby is the most unhinged
Considering sage, it makes sense that they would only be kind to "his children" yes "his"
Thinking about chaos sonic, chaos sonic and dr bubble may be the opposites of metal sonic and sage in a sense.
Honestly the only member is the Chaos Council I liked was Mr Doctor Eggman because of how identical he is to the real Eggman in terms of personality.
I just watched the part of the vid where he basically says that.
I agree. Every other Chaos Council member is nothing but Fillers
@@Aidel1011 they are comic relief, and a critique of the different generations
The guy in the battle suit and pirate boy are pretty cool
You literally just repeated what he said in the video
I don’t hate the Chaos Council, I think they’re fine for what they are. But they don’t hold a candle to the original Dr. Ivo “Eggman” Robotnik himself. Although Mr. Dr. Eggman does have his moments, although seldomly. You’re right though about it being cooler if instead of these five, we did have a more tyrannical and merciless Dr. Eggman that lacked the small amount of humanity that normal Dr. Eggman has.
I believe the entire gag with sonic prime’s whole use of alternate versions of characters. Is split up traits to begin with so without the mix of traits bouncing off each other, the more flawed parts end up being much more noticeable and some of them are gonna hit more at home by having the main trait more then the rest.
Also kind of under the impression that egg man ‘nega’ was suppose to be a more ruthless version of egg man, but they kind of butchered story continuity to begin with in all the games and besides comics which is yet another continuity, it’s a hassle to have solid details.
Anyway if sonic prime does go for a very extended period, they could easily pull this council either merging back together somewhat or other members vanishing and then changing in drastic ways due to lacking certain traits of egg man ‘prime’ that would normally hold them back.
Which is one of the many tropes the whole split into multiple beings trope seems to lean into, especially with defining traits for each of them.
Anyway, least it’s fun to think of these things, especially if the show is already not against the idea of one of the alternate selves of one of the ‘good guys’ can actually get malicious intentions due to the circumstances of the story. Which one could imagine how far they can even stretch that once they get into some other worlds being included which I assume will definitely have more of them show up, if the show gets more seasons.
And make him a cyborg!
I think Eggman nega was meaner then the original, but am not sure about it.
@@SirDavid290He's Eggman's descendant; and he's pretty resentful of the fact that his ancestor's constant failures have left their mark on the Robotnik name, thus leaving him with a poor reputation that has driven him to seek the world's destruction.
@@videogollumer Him being "Eggman's descendant" is a retcon, not his original Origin. He is actually the Eggman of the Sol Dimension as stated in Sonic Rush Duology. Sonic Rivals did Eggman Nega dirty
i think that each eggman is meant to represent each shatterverse instead of a side of eggman because egg yolk is the only shatterverse that has eggmans and there are five
@@APCONTOP oh sorry
It’s more like each one is one fifth of the original Eggman. Done it being the aging and cranky attitude, Deep being the showboat and cocky tendencies, Don’t being the apathy and depression, Babble being the tendency to melt down into a rage when things go wrong, and rage in general, and Mister being the intellect.
Dunno about that. They all came from the same shatterverse and they aren't necessarily pirate or jungle themed
@@Mewdo45because Eggman was the closest to the Paradox Prism
@@pandora5051shadow shouldnt have had his chaos powers protect him. Imagine 5 dofferent shatter versions of shadow or him just traveling through the shatter verse like sonic. Thqt way you could bring in silver and make him another shadow variant as they both use telekinesis and sorta look like each other, he's then shadows innocent side who's willing to help sobic and you could make mephistelis the dark the pure evil version of shadow ect, you could easy cast then as different versions of shadow who represent a different side of him. And then a metal shadow working for eggman instead of metal sonic for his serious side ect.
Suddenly Orbot and Cubot look like incredible characters in comparison to those guys...
They weren't terrible characters to begin with
@@kingtiger5040 based
They always were what are you talking about
@@rafaelrivera7594nah
Wait, Orbot and Cubot are considered bad characters? I always loved those goofballs!
What if the writers are holding back a special detail where it’s like the Shatterverse slowly falling apart, and then once Sonic puts the Paradox Prism, the Choas Council actually proves there sinister existence because they all become a complete Eggman, and then start blowing up the shatterverses,
PS: the Prism Titan Eggman was the one thing that made me laugh crazily…
considering that they're all sorta ordered in terms of age that's kinda smart
I laughed really hard too in that part where Eggman is a giant and was shooting his laser beam from his mouth.
The 5 Eggmen can't merge. They're all from New Yolk, just clones of each other. Its not explained why the other shatter spaces have no Eggman of their own.
@@ixiahj no like they all become an independent full fledged Eggman…
kaiju eggman was probably one of the top ten moments in sonic history for me, the execution of it mixed with the sheer goofiness from it makes it just perfect
The thing is, the Chaos Council is setup in a way that a tiny little change would AUTOMATICALLY make them better. Mr Dr Eggman is kept more back in the begining and starts to lead the group more in the second season. They could have easily made four funny characters and then to balance the scale, make one of them the actual evil one. Make Mr Dr Eggman so cruel that even the other members fear to say something against him. The writers even try to do something like this with the "bigger robots vs a completely new idea" but they don't commit to it. All the villains get played for jokes and as a result are taken as jokes by the audience.
That and just funnier jokes for the council. That would fix SO MANY problems. At least we could laugh at them being bad.
True
Never thought "the Great Eggman Power Struggle" would be an idea in my head.
Thank you, stranger!
I love the idea of this; four comedic puppet leaders that are put front and centre, lulling the residents and audience into a false sense of security...then we get the head honcho in Mr. Dr., working in the shadows, but when he comes out, he's the reason you should fear the very mention of the name "Dr. Eggman" or "the Chaos Council"
I feel like the whole purpose of the Chaos Council is to be fodder for the twist villain. The premise of New Yoke City is menacing until you actually meet the Chaos Council. Then you see the weak humor of each member while seeing Nine slowly rising towards power. Chaos Sonic was meant to remove any suspicion of Nine as he is genuinely afraid of what was created and was a threat to Sonic. The Chaos Council getting stronger through more Shatter power and rivaling Shadow caused people to think that they finally mean business with the giant Dr. Eggman cementing them as the sole antagonists until Nine ruins Sonic’s victory by saying his intentions to him like it’s okay with him. The suspicion on Nine is further hidden as Sega always failed pitting Tails against Sonic (Lost World and Archie issues 178-9). The “twist fodder” syndrome of putting a weak villain in the center to build up a twist villain was used with very little success, because even if the twist villain was great, wasting our time with a uninteresting or annoying villain isn’t good.
I actually had a much better idea called the Robo-Egg Force. it's literally alternate versions of Eggman/Robotnik from all of the alternate continuities. but they're actually made more threatening by combining their intellect together in an attempt to rule the multiverse.
Definitely sounds far more interesting and unique than what we actually got in Prime
@@thepjshow that's why I made it. imagine every version Robotnik/Eggman in one group. Eggman Prime, AOSTH Robotnik, SatAM Robotnik, Underground Robotnik, Archie Robotnik, Fleetway Robotnik, OVA Robotnik, X Eggman, Boom Eggman and Movie Robotnik. all of them together, using their combined technology to rule the multiverse.
@@cherrybombwaffles518Except Anti-Robotnik from Moebius. That one is Robotnik with a morality flip and personality flip, so he and the other Robotniks/Eggmans would fight each other
@@Aidel1011 I'm not adding Dr Kintobor to this. but I do think that they'd all get along at least partially due to their similar goals.
@@cherrybombwaffles518 Nope, Anti-Robotnik won't get along with other Robotniks/Eggmans due to morality flip. Anti-Robotnik is supposed to be a Force for Good. He has dealt with Scourge who also did things that Eggman always does including the mistreatment of Buns Rabbot/Anti-Omega which is the Moebian version of Eggman's mistreatment towards his Omega and ruining the world with his Imperialism and Sadism
I actually don't mind the chaos council as villans sure they aren't the best villans ever but i don't hate them i think they are pretty okay i just hope that they take a back seat for a bit and let Nine become the villan because i think they can do some very interesting stuff with it
I had a similar outlook during the first season, but with the extra screentime from the second season, I grew to dislike them as villains. Hopefully Nine really makes up for it.
Ngl I hoped Nine wouldn't be the villain but it is what it is
The deadly six were decent in IDW,so they're not really a problem there.
Zavok was actually competently written there.
Agreed
His boss theme in Sonic Forces absolutely slaps!
@@josueproductions5007 agreed. It’s good
@@donathan2933 Sega confirmed that The deadly six are based on Japanese ogres. So they work in concept, kinda.
@@orangeslash1667 ? What’s the context of this?
The whole "Its for kids" argument really doesn't work because we have seen cartoon villains for kids shows be terrifying and monstrous and well written. Slade from Teen Titans was horrifying as he not only could beat the TT in a fight most of the time, he was intelligent enough to always get the better and outsmart them, only really losing in the end when his greatest apprentice fought back and managed to kill him and prior to this, Terra won and he succeeded in taking over the city. 2003 and 2012 Shredder were also monsterous, 03 Shredder was a (literal) inhuman monster who was sadistic even to his allies. Every time Baxter Stockman failed him, Shredder would remove a body part until Baxter was just a brain in a jar and he traumatized Leo (much like Slade did to Robin). In Adventure Time we get the Lich who is basically a horror villain who somehow found his way to a goofy show like Adventure Time. You go from the Ice King stealing princesses to get a date to a literal force of nature trying to eradicate all life and at one point skinning his former adversary alive and walking around in their corpse to trick Finn and they even made the goofy Ice King tragic and when an alternate Finn gets the crown, he is actually terrifying.
Essentially, kids media has been able to create threatening and terrifying villains despite the show normally being more silly and light hearted. Teen Titans could have an episode where Beast Boy fights a Tofu Alien followed by an episode where Robin nearly kills himself in an hallucinogenic frenzy brought on by Slade from beyond the grave. Adventure Time could have Finn and Jake being annoyed by formerly frozen Lawyers and in the next episode, The Lich (still in a stolen corpse), wakes up and kills a sleeping old man with a single minded hatred for life in particular and I don't even need to go into how silly TMNT can get. The normal silliness of a kids show can be used to great effect to really highlight the seriousness of a scary or threatening villain, where its no longer fun and games when they arrive and its been done in kids cartoons before so you can't use that as an excuse now. Kids in the past got awesome villains, shouldn't kids today get some too?
Dark Oak is a prime Sonic example. The Metarex Council containing Pale Bay Leaf, Black Narcissuss, Red Pine, Yellow Zelcova and Dark Oak himself is what the Chaos Council wish to be ngl.
Not to mention this was made by Man of Action, aka the people who made OG Ben 10 and, by extension, Vilgax, Zs’Skayr, and Kevin 11, all of whom are excellent examples of villains who don’t have much more to them than pure evil, but still manage to be compelling despite that.
@@theillusionist1494Charmcaster and Michael Morningstar are better than Ghostfreak/Zs' Skayr.
@@is17a985 I don’t disagree, but both of them came from Alien Force, a show not headed by Man of Action. Classic Ghostfreak was still a very menacing, imposing presence, even with his limited screen time.
*spongebob and patrick screaming on kids ride gif*
I actually like the Chaos Council, and I liked them even more in season 2, since they now have the ability to travel to other shatter spaces. Granted, I feel like the baby and teenager were unnecessary inclusions, but I don't really dislike them.
They aren't edgy enough for him
I agree with @joelblake5310
Eh i actually like the emo one somehow but the baby yea he can go to hell where he belongs
The baby is the only one I dislike. He irritates me
@@donathan2933 we hate dr babble the other 4 have there moments to be funny atleast to me the only i laugh when dr babble is onscreen is when sonic send him flying away
How can the people behind Prime go from writing Shadow the Hedgehog *brilliantly* to... These weirdos?
Man of Action doesn't care about consistency
Shadow wasn't written brilliantly in Prime,he was just the same as he was in the 2010s and 2000s but less hostile.
@@kingtiger5040 That and he is also just as nerfed as he is in IDW. Flynn did say that IDW Shadow and Prime Shadow are the same thanks to the "Prime and IDW Shadow are canon to the games"
@Aidel-qf3xu You do know Shadow is supposed to be on the same level as Sonic if not slightly weaker(still low diffs surge)?
@@kingtiger5040 Yep, but Man of Action don't care. They are just as if not more Meta than Pontaff
i think they're fun. i actually appreciate the contrast between how pleak new yoke is and how goofy the chaos council are. i also love the generational eggman idea and think their mech designs are really cool. Dr. Babble's mech in particular seems like a really interesting boss that i'd love to fight.
the good part of having 5 of you is actually making robots that doesn't explode on touch
I heard a lot of people defending the comedy of the Chaos Council saying "Comedy is subjective" and to that I say: "I'm gonna find your house and have an hour long discussion with you" I'm so sick of that excuse. Yes comedy is subjective, but so is music and art, and people are still here giving number scores.
Chaos Council's comedy is literally just we have an emo kid, an old man, an annoying baby, and a guy who likes yoga. That's it.
The comedy of the chaos council is amazing if you don't like it you don't like it who cares in the end of the day
This
I understood that reference
I don't think it should be taken this serious.
I found them great. They work in the world setting. It’s the setting that’s the problem, not the doctors being written to compensate it.
It would have been way cooler if Eggman also had variants across each shatter space like all the other characters. Then have the Eggman of New Yoke City start travelling the shatterverse and gathering the other Eggmen, then forming the chaos council with the multiversal Robotniks.
Just an idea.
I genuinely think they are good characters. Not perfect, but good.
They aren’t really terrifying, but they do show multiple glimpses of genuine competence. I think ironically the thing that’s keeping them from being truly threatening is each other. They were able to take over Green hill because they were able to divide and conquer.
And in that case the whole theory about them each being parts of Dr. Eggman’s character makes more sense, because he’s literally the main thing holding himself back besides Sonic.
I really like the bickering, but more from a character narrative perspective. It’s interesting to see how their plans form, and how each of them has some level of autonomy rather than having one eggman talking down to lower minions about his plans and maybe being slightly influenced. It’s kind of like seeing into Dr. Eggman’s mind
Also they do offer more unique combat variation for action scenes so that’s also a plus.
This is how much we see of Orbot and Cubot:
Two scenes (at least that’s what I’ve seen)
@Sonicmid I always saw Orbot and Cubot as lackeys and Scratch and Grounder as Henchmen.
What was the point of them?
I was going to say this anyway, but I think you hit the nail on the head by the end of the video: Nine is the real villain of the series. The Chaos Council are just the warmup, villains that Sonic can fight without remorse. From the beginning, though, Nine has been built up as a character the audience isn't quite sure they can trust. Considering that he shows his true colors by the end of second act, I think it's pretty clear that he will be the main antagonist moving forward...assuming the writers know what they're doing, of course.
I would have like a version of Robotnik closer to his Fleetway or Archie versions.
Agreed. I generally would like an adaptation of the cast close to the fleetway style. I think that would be incredible.
if we're talking varients lets add kintobor
Yep
Just give me SatAm. Could even explain it as a consequence of the power stones.
They literally could’ve just made the chaos council homages to earlier designs and different interpretations of eggman with more serious personalities. Doctor deep could’ve acted like movie robotnik, dr babble could’ve looked like comic robotnik, the old one (forgot his name cba) could’ve been a reference to the 1991 version etc. it would’ve been easier and such a cool callback too. It was literally right there in front of their faces and they let it slip through their fingers
The one time Babble got me choking with laughter was when he busted out running on all fours like some rabid gazelle
XDDDD
I really feel like if we had to get multiple Eggmen teaming up then it could’ve been better if it was the Eggman of each of the three Shatterverses. An Emperor Eggman, who could be like a callback to SatAM Robotnik, from New Yoke, a Pirate Eggman from No Place, and a more primal-like Eggman from Boscage who, thanks to the shards of the Prism and maybe also through Sonic’s actions, happen to meet and decide to team up to take over everything but all three of them are planning to stab each other in the back and take it all for themselves
Emperor Eggman: "And what exactly are you supposed to be?"
Doctor Eggman: "I could ask you the same exact question."
@@maurycyoseka1057 Emperor Eggman: What you wish you were
Yeah, I feel like the Chaos Council would be a lot more compelling if the villains actually had unique backstories from one another
Honestly, I think they're decent, they aren't a huge threat, but they do a good job at being an obstacle to Sonic's goal, and I find the interaction between them kinda funny at time, especially between old Eggman and millenial Eggman
Prob doesn’t help that since they are suppose to be cartoon level villians they aren’t suppose to be overly amazing, villain of the week type stories are best when you have simple baddies, especially if you want to have them for later episodes.
Make a villain to brilliant and then you wonder why they haven’t curb stomped earlier, leave it for once they get a mc’guffin to super charge them or bring them to a more ruthless motif, that’s where you wanna have it for turning points in a story, especially for the last few episodes.
And if a villain is full ruthless every episode, then your gonna get tired of them real easily.
So yeah, unless they plan to make it a short series, its better they have a rogues gallery to rotate between that have flaws, then a Omni big bad that will pull a Batman Arkham city mr freeze and disable the main character ability to use previous actions against him, forcing the show to get even more stupid and ‘plot convienent’ to continue taking on the Omni beeg bad, who hasn’t decided to just turn the floor into quick sand and set glue traps on all the walls to solve it In one go, despite being this ruthless beeg bad.
I assumed millenial would be french one.
"They do a good job at being an obstacle to Sonic's goal" is exactly how I feel about them. I don't think Prime needs a threatening villain per se, and I think the Chaos Council provide a solid way of giving Sonic something to fight against while keeping the character focus more on Sonic's interactions with the Shatterverse versions of his friends
I think the chaos council are not the main villains. they're just the visible threat to keep the plot moving
All five are a representation of the doctor. Fractured into five different aspects of his personality.
Right but it's still boring
five different aspects of boring
Honestly I could care less about their personalities, for me it’s more that unlike the other characters they were for some reason grouped in the same shatterverse together, like what? It just seems a little odd given how the other characters were separated across dimensions, if they did that we probably could have gotten better variations of Eggman besides him being a baby for some reason
@@hortinuseggs together strong
@@sethisevilone02it's not boring sure they baby is annoying at times but the granpa is one of the better ones
I felt my brain rotting every second the baby or teenager was onscreen. The other's weren't much better. S2 had a great 1st and last 2 episodes but the pacing in between was awful.
If the show had better pacing and used the baby a lot less it would have been better
I HATE THE BABY!
Am i the only one here that genuinely likes the Chaos Council?
I think theyre funny... except the baby he actually scares me.
The generation humor is funny to me, honestly Doctor Done'it being the Logical one (or asleep) is my favorite gag in the show.
I also find Doctor Dont just as intimidating as i find Babble and possibly the funniest, his lack actual care, his abilities to control & switch bots at will, his anti-humor (i find it funny that he doesn't)
Im gonna be honest the whole group are some of my favorite Sonic Villians. (Though none of them are in the top 3 and never will be, those are for nostalgia)
No, I genuinely like them too. I just think their names suck. Also, Eggteen's pretty lackluster and has the worst name. "Dr. Don't", really?!
Yeah I also really like them. They are comedic without taking away from them being a threat. Sonic treats them as such multiple times in both Seasons. He only begins to be cocky when he is winning against them, which is no different from the Sonic we know from the games.
@@Xxandrew01 Tell me about it; also, the regular Eggman hasn't exactly been very interesting lately, with a few exceptions. Either he's an unsympathetic Doofenshmirtz or a one-dimensional omnicidal psychopath. Frontiers is the first time in along time where he's been like the Eggman we knew from the Adventure and Dark eras.
You know what we need? A Body swapping-villain? It would add so much tension.
@SonicmidOnly once in Sonic Boom (as far as I know). But I would love for that to happen on a more serious scale.
@Sonicmid I'm aware. I would love to see that too.
@@Aidel1011 Mimic did not possess people. Also, he was a great villain.
@@rickyrackey7930 Oh yeah. About possession. They could have made a Silver clone that can control people's minds and make them fight his enemies. Think of An Anti-Silver type of antagonist (The antithesis of Silver in terms of morals and personality)
@@Aidel1011 they could name it Chrome or something
Honestly, the idea you had for a single eggman sounds great. Heck, it could be something that could harken back to the Sat AM Robotnik, the version of eggman who's most like this
I think my personal favorite thing is how they actually made Dr. Don’t is a solid fighter in Season 2. He’s got the potential to be like, a slasher villain. Imagine fighting a stage enemy, and then one of them isn’t just an autopilot AI, but instead being controlled by a genius… and then once it’s popped? It could just jump to a different robot. It’s a sick concept honestly!!
But they probably should have actual Shatterverse eggmen or Eggman based on different era’s… but I dunno.
EDIT: he’s basically the sonic version of Conner from Detroit become Human
He is very lazy:vv
I mean... It is still believable that the Chaos council took over. It's not like anyone tried to stop them.
I legitimately forgot about the teenage one lmao
😂😂😂
Honestly I like them. "I just think they're neat"
The jokws between them are somewhat relatable, I like how each of them has their own "thing" they do, I like how they are not a perfect unit together and they do have their friction.
I'd say my favourites are Dr. Don't and Dr. Done it (The teen and the old man)
The most boring one is Mr. Doctor Eggman. I mean, he is the closest one to our own Eggman. I like our normal eggman a lot but the way I see it, you have an excuse to do something fun and wacky here, and you just do Eggman 2.0
Boom Eggman was more fun.
The Chaos Council
Where to begin, oh where to begin. I guess the first thing I should say is that I like them. I like that there are five of them. That they are different and get on each other’s nerves. I think they are entertaining. And most importantly I think they are the perfect antagonists for this show in particular.
Are they threatening? I would say yes, they are. One thing you have to remember is that New Yoke is a universe where Sonic never existed. It showed the council moving in with their terrifying robots completely unopposed. They work from the shadows during this first invasion and let their robots do most of the building and later the policing. What powered these robots? THE RED SHARD! These Doctors possess something the original Eggman did not. What is essentially the heart of this particular universe and it gives them the power to make armies of robots without having to rely on using little animal creatures to power them (if that is a detail that matters to you). They are an overwhelming force to the denizens of New Yoke and not matter how many they take out, there will be more to replace them. It wasn’t until Nine took the shard that they started powering down, giving the resistance the chance to try to take back their land. However as soon as the council returned with a new power source, they were quickly subjugated again.
I stated the above to give you a sense of believability. The chaos council are able to set aside their differences when it comes to conquering then dividing. Their intellect and inventions are a credible threat despite the comedic bickering that goes on in the background. And even they aren’t pushovers by themselves.
Doctor Babble is a Wrecking Ball with his Titan of a mech suit, and his tendency for temper tantrums.
Dr. Don’t is a gamer, a top down to first person strategist who will look at the playing field and then possess individual robots to give them an edge.
Dr. Deep is a scalpel. He will take problems head on and is more offensive than defensive. He’s not inside a mech suit 100% protected like Dr. Babble, his head and arms are exposed and he will cut you down with his samurai swords. You can chalk it up to pride and ego, but he’s the only one that wants to be up close and personal without hiding in a ship or in a fully covered suit.
Dr. Done-It plays the long con. He takes his time before making a decision and sees the problem from all angles. He doesn’t let his hot temper blind him from reason. “The Varmint makes sense.” He’s the one that was able to get the council to see past their differences and work together to begin with. To me, despite being an old man, he’s the most threatening because he doesn’t appear as such in the surface.
Mr. Dr. Eggman is the leader. He’s the most ambitious and the driving force behind the other council member’s actions. He craves power, and will user whatever new technology or tools that come his way to get more of it. First it was Sonic himself, then capturing Nine and using him (and even tricking him), then using prism shards to create rifts to the other shatterverses. He doesn’t care about the consequences as long as it’s he who stands on top in the end, which makes him a danger not just to his enemies but his allies and himself.
Now I think this goes a long way to describing why I think the Chaos Council are threatening villains. But a good villain has to be both threatening and entertaining. This is where it gets harder because humor is subjective.
A baby that could go off any second and has malicious tendencies to literally beat his enemies into pulp or cut him down with saw blades is hilarious to me.
I enjoy the one liners from the other council members. Dr. Done-It calling Yoga “Yogurt” is silly but makes me laugh. And Dr. Deeps line ‘Let’s Slaughter them. But, you know, for the evil, not to eat. I’m 100% vegan,” gave me a real chuckle.
But like I said humor is subjective. and if a joke makes you groan as opposed to chuckle in can turn you off of the character. Even so, for the short run this series is going to have, I think the idea of splitting the villains up to have more diversity and for plot convenience was the right move. Also they can sell more playsets this way. Hey, I can be just as honest with the rest of ya. I still stand by that I find them to be good villains.
Nine, though, is my favorite character. And hero, villain, or in-between, I can’t wait to see where his character goes next.
The weirdest part for me was that the baby offered to split the city into different districts. Name one baby that voluntarily shares his stuff!
PS: PJ I wanted to ask you what you think about Sonic X. For me I like the show but I hate the human characters, except from Eggman
but wait
sage is human look liked ai humanoid girl
she cute and good character
@@ドラゴンリュー-f1xyes she looks like a human, but she is still an ai, but you‘re right she is a good character.
Damn dude, even Tanaka? Ella? Chuck?
@@djmaple5940 to be honest I forgot about them. But no those three I like. They have a certain charm to them.
Mister Doctor Eggman:
“AH! My Toupee!!!”
SATAM Robotnik:
“ *A nice dream, but dreams are meant to be…BROKEN* “
Now, tell me which Eggman we *SHOULD* have gotten.
We should have gotten SATAM robotnik he is WAYYYYY better than what we got.
@@DanielOduvwu-oo8zi Yep, SATAM Robotnik at least managed to maintain his iron fist for so long and he is at least very serious about stopping Sonic
What if the Chaos Council was instead a reflection of the past iterations of Dr. Eggman from alternate media? (Apologies in advance if any naming sounds cringe.)
-Dr. Nega (Eggman Nega - just to help tie into the games a bit)
-Dr. Data (OVA Robotnik - a combination of Classic Eggman & Black Eggman)
-Dr. Doofus (AoSTH Robotnik - comic relief done right if the writing is up to snuff)
-Dr. Dark (SatAM Robotnik - legitimate threat and rage, the executioner of the Council)
-Mr. Dr. Eggman (Movie Robotnik - the name could fit quite well with this iteration)
Here's an interesting question: How could they have been *salvaged* ? Keeping to the "basic rules" for each one's basic setup, how might each have been modified so as to be better managed?
Better designs, off the bat. After that, if we're keeping them more one-note, then go all in on their respective notes: Dr.Babble should be pretty much fully confined to a more Sonic 1/2/3 styled mech, Dr.Deep should have been all in on the philosophy and/or samurai deal (Think Monsoon from MGRR), Dr.Don't should be something akin to a robobrain as having gone the farthest into their tech side (And regretting the loss of humanity, hence the emo deal), Dr.Done It just needs to lean more into serious Mr.Burns/less into comedic Mr.Burns, and Mr.Dr.Eggman should have been the closest to SATAM Robotnik (Having gotten serious, and being the smartest out of the group).
@@Umbra_UrsusHazoot!
I had the idea of making Done it into Gerald Robotnik.
@@Umbra_Ursus Fun Fact: This show is made by Man of Action. Their credits include Mega Man: Fully Charged, Ben 10: Omniverse, and Ultimate Spider-Man.
I think giving them each unique motivations and backstories within the Shatterverse would have helped immensely with having character beyond just their stereotypes.
Even if there wasn't much screen time given to that, it'd still give the writers something to enrich their personalities.
I think the Chaos Council as villains are ok not amazing or anything I like the deadly six better. Dr. done it is probably my favorite, his design kind of reminds me of gerald robotnik’s design.
My nephew and I LOVE the show, and I plan on showing this video to him later because he LOVES analysis and theory/prediction videos with the things he likes 💕
I agree with Sonic on this one: "Give me the old man for once!" Not only does he look like Robotnik (Classic Eggman, possibly implying this is a bad future of sorts supporting the city's aesthetics,) but also strangely acts more like the Eggman we know than Mr. Dr. Eggman.
Your version of a Alternate Eggman who rules New Yoke City without any inhibitions reminds me of the Archie Eggman… who was a terrifying villain.
I DESPISE these characters and it hurts more because I genuinely love Doctor Robotnik
The chaos council is the perfect description of:
Rock in the shoe
They are annoying, but dont represent a real menace
Another way of fixing the Chaos Council without losing the general idea (that of several eggmen at the same time)is to really add more distinction between the five, and ensure they have their own identity in terms of machineries, to further emphasize on one theme: Synergy. The idea is to make them look scary because they're several ones at the same time (I'll let you know that Eggman all by himself could conquer and enslave planets just for an amusement park), instead of just being Eggman from five different perspectives.
I don't know why they didn't just do eggman in different universes instead of making 5 eggmans with different age in one dimention. It's really strange
I'm really glad Nine was the season 3 villain, because he was way more threatening and interesting than this goofy cartoon villains that look like Eggman
They remind me of the deadly six without any cool gimmicks like controlling robots
Prime's director: "So, for Sonic Prime, can we get five of the most menacing versions of Dr. Eggman from different continuities? Like, have Sonic facing IDW Eggman, SatAM Robotnik, Fleetway Robotnik, Movie Robotnik and Archie Eggman all at once?"
Prime's producer: "We could, but it's going to cost us $50000 to smooth over any legal and copyright issues."
Prime's director: "Damn, that's like almost all our budget. What can we get for $5000?"
Prime's producer: "Eggman with a toupee, a grumpy preteen, a senile old fart, a hippy and a baby."
Prime's director : "It'll do."
personally i wish the chaos council were the many members of the Robotnik family; not just 5 versions of Eggman; Ivo, Geralt Robotnik, Maria, Steve robotnik and maybe Eggman Nega. there was prolly a better plot opportunity with them; i know Shadow would get ptsd by seeing a evil Maria
Whos Steve Robotnik???
The Chaos Council is *fine*, but I do wish we just got the obvious option of Eggman having variations of himself in each world, and that ay not only would we have a better main villain from the futuristic world, but some of them wouldn’t even be villains (probably), and we’d get to see the interesting character breakdown we got from the other characters
I honestly kinda disagree. I didn’t mind the chaos council and despite everything that people have said about them, I actually think they mesh together really well. Yeah sure, maybe their comedy didn’t land all the time and Dr. Babble fluctuates between being my favorite and my least favorite, but over all, I didn’t mind them. And they’ve shown that they are pretty competent since they were the closest to defeating Sonic and reaching their goal (at least to my knowledge)
Granted I know that Nine is probably gonna out shine them as villains, but the Chaos Council legit had me thinking “How is Sonic gonna get outta this one?” at some points.
TLDR: While not the best villains, they surprisingly had the most competence I’ve seen of an Eggman yet. Also I like their banter.
I think the council had two HUGE missed opportunities:
1. Have them be an "Egg Family" - dr. Done it is Mr. Dr. Eggman's dad or Gerald Robotnik, Deep is his cousin, and, and the other two are his kids, this could have given them some neat interactions and more individuality.
2. Have Sage from Frontiers, - This would have been a great way to cross promote Frontiers, and she could have been a serious straight-man to the antics of the rest of the council, with only Mr. Dr. Eggman being the other comptent character.
Also, where did he get Eggman, since Sonic gives him the nickname usually, and he not supposed to exsist in that Shatter verse?
The whole "Eggman is a nickname Sonic gave him" only exists in the English dub of Sonic Adventure to introduce western audiences to the name. He's been Eggman since Sonic 1 in Japan.
The Chaos Council are supposed to be underdeveloped villains because they are each parts of eggman's personality. They don't have much impact because of that, Eggman isn't complete without everything.
5:39 Do you know what we could have gotten instead?
Nightmare Eggman from SA2 randomizer
That would have been more threatening...
My hot take from after watching the series was that the Chaos Council are all separate personalities that make up the big man himself. On paper its a good idea, and I like the idea, and I didn't think they were terrible characters. Poorly executed yes, but not terrible overall
The only one of the Chaos Council I like is Dr. Deep solely for his mech suit that normal Eggman needs to be pulling up in. Other than that, they're all just worse versions of Eggman. I would have preferred if each shatter verse maybe has its own Robotnik and the New Yoke one being inspired by Satam Robotnik, being a cruel and cunning dictator.
If they were set on the Council of Eggs idea than they probably would’ve benefitted from pulling different Eggman’s/Robotnik from across series. A more serious and threatening council consist of SATAM, Archie, Classic and 06, all being, in my opinion, the most terrifying versions of Eggman/Robotnik (minus Adventures Eggman cause his designs matches too much/entirely with the “main” Eggman in Prime, unless they went with the promo art design which would be cool)
or for a more comedic council it can consist of Boom, Sonic X, The Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog and the Black Knight versions of him with Mr Doctor Eggman still leading them.
This is just how I would go about the idea of the Egg Council.
The problem here, is the show was made for babies and safe Sega branding
it wasn't made for late teen and adult fans who want the edge back.
7:03 I’M PISSING ON THE MOOOOOONNNN (Yes i know this isn’t an original comment you don’t have to tell me)
I genuinely think that the Chaos Council being so incompetent and having so much friction sells new yolk even more. Without Sonic, or mostly anybody standing up to injustice, those 5 dorks have managed to enslave the entire city. Without some glimer of hope, Green Hill could be totally transformed by some random guy with a steam roller.
Plus, the fact that those 5 people are ruling New Yolk is more distopian than a super evil eggman... incompetent people in charge is always a more terrifying thought than any competent person, because at least the competent person understands the fallout of their actions, while the incompetent simply do as they please without a single thought to what the consequences, or even more terrifyingly, misunderstanding the concequences.
I dont think that the Chaos Council needs to be threatening in the mustache twirling kind of way. Its moreso that you cant tell the amount of misery they'll cause once they get the prism, because even they dont know how much misery theyll be able to cause. And honesty, thats pretty dystopian.
It really should have been just Mr. Dr. Eggman, since he's essentially just Eggman
This group of age-displaced Eggmen is a case of "good on paper, bad in execution" for many of the reasons mentioned in this video. Mostly, they end up one-note, hard to take seriously, and redundant.
I'm just bitter that we didnt get a pirate or jungle Eggman because of them. And yes, a truly fearsome, bad future New Yoke Eggman ala SatAM would have been really cool too. Pirate and Jungle Eggman could have been the comic reliefs while New Yoke has the true threat.
As For me, I find Chaos Council very interesting. They are funny and add fun to the events. I love their characters, especially Dr. Babble. I find him funny. I used to see Eggman as annoying, foolish, and thoughtless, but after 2010 I changed my mind. I wanted the original Eggman back until he came. Ian Flynn is the savior, cool, handsome, he fixed everything in the Sonic franchises including Eggman (even though I don't like his character in the comics) he even fixed the Deadly Six too so they're even better than the Chaos Council and I hope to see them again in games . The Chaos Council only exist as enemies, while the real villain of the series is Nine
For every "thing" that people hate, there's at least one person that genuinely likes it. The wonder of having an opinion.
(I'm not insulting you, by the way. Just sayin')
Just a wild theory that is probably wrong, but maybe all the Eggmen being in one place, not spread out like everyone else, is because of Eggman's sheer willpower so not fracturing as much. Maybe it's so strong each other Eggman is just a fraction of what he is, and Mr Dr Eggman is still a majority of the original, explaining why he stands out so much, and why he created Kaiju Eggman, as deep down he is aware of who he truly is.
God please make a Merlina video since you brought her up i love her so much
This is the first I've heard of this show existing and I know absolutely nothing about it but going off the concept that there is a "Shatterverse", it leads me to believe that there will be an arc where Sonic has to save the original Dr. Eggman by 'fusing' the Chaos Council together somehow.
it's astounding how much they've achieved with how little they can even tolerate each other and make up their minds on a single decision 😓
Eggman is mostly entertaining when he has someone to talk and show off his ego when he not up against the heroes. Him talking to himself while fun get old and orbot and Cubot are just there to make him look smart. Eggman and Starline interactions in the Idw comics were great as he loves being praised and eggman leadership over the eggbosses in the Archie comic were great as he was in charge but clearly no one respected him. With the council we basically have all of those. He talks to himself, they all believe they are the smartest, they constantly show off their ego and while they work together they each believe they are superior than the other.
It why I like it when eggman works with people, he not just constantly surrounded by robots. Eggman need people to run an empire but has to deal with people who not programmed to kiss his feet. And him having to learn and share with himself is actually pretty funny.
Love the eggmanland theme from unleashed from the beginning
When I watched Sonic prime season 1,I was hoping Mr Dr robotnic will reveal himself as Dr eggman ... Until shadow said that home is gone
The Chaos Council is Prime at it's worst. Prime at it's best, like Frontiers, is the characters interacting with and learning from Sonic. It's why I'm excited to see the inevitable clash between Sonic and Nine, because it'll be the most emotionally charged moment of the series.
Also, TINY nitpick, but "Pingas" was from Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog, not SatAM.
The Pingas thing is also from Archie which is also similar to SATAM in terms of it's writing
Hi.I'm Deuce Lair(call me Deuce-Meister).Huge fan of yours.When are you making a character analysis of Rouge of Sonic Prime characters like Sonic,Chaos Sonic and Nine?You're my hero,dude.
Well, Deuce-Meister, I haven't quite figured out exactly when I want to do the Rouge analysis, but it's looking like it's gonna be the next main character analysis. I honestly think I might just cover all of the Prime characters in one big review of Sonic Prime at some point.
And thank you for the kind words!
@@thepjshow You're really welcome,sir.I really can't wait for see if you make a video on Movie Shadow. It’s been a pleasure watching your videos.Gracias for commenting,it's an honor to talk to you.
I admit, I actually don’t have that much of a bone to pick with these guys. I think it has a lot to do with the performance, actually - while all five are pretty much the 1D caricatures they’re introduced as all the way through, watching them interact is nonetheless quite enjoyable. A surprising number of their conversations feel really organic (at least in the sense that it feels like people bickering and not a script being read back and forth), and the caricatures aren’t so completely binding as to be obnoxious all the time; I especially enjoy Dr. Deep and Dr. Dunnit having heated generational arguments over a steering wheel, or Dr. Dont occasionally dropping the emo “I paused my game to be here” act and getting annoyed like an actual person when things don’t go to plan. Are these guys well-written by any stretch? I wouldn’t argue so. But I believe they have enough going for them to still be fun.
Regular Eggman has been one-dimensional unlikable a-hole for a long time now anyway. For me, this is a step up.
Honestly, I like the idea of the Chaos Council in theory. Each one basically represents a facet if Eggman's personality and they're more capable as a team than as individuals.
But that also creates the problem where they each feel kind of incomplete.
At least the Shatterverse versions of the other characters fee not just distinct but also like their own characters.
The Chaos Council, by comparison, feel almost hollow. With the sole exception being Mr. Doctor Eggman who feels closest to the original.
Video Idea: What is the Best Sonic TV Show in history?
Sonic Boom
Would be sonic x if Chris didn't exist
Sonic X, obviously
1) Its an anime
2) It had effort put into it
3) It feels the least like a cringy fan fic (which makes sense considering its a Japanese series and not an US one)
@@panthekirb7561 Ah yes Sonic X, the glorified PowerPoint presentation
@@ALegendaryBlueHedge
Everyone goes off model for like half the episode it's so funny
Chaos Sonic felt like if Metal Sonic was trying to be Deadpool.
Facts. Never will I watch prime for the chaos council. Everybody else is pretty well written though so I look forward to seeing you review them.
I finally get Shadow being my favorite character for more than just 3 games YESSSS!!!!
This was a really well done analysis! Great job!
After looking back on my experience with Sonic Prime and applying your points, yeah... The Chaos Council are really not great villains. Compared to villains like Sephiroth from Final Fantasy 7 and Muzan Kibutsuji from Demon Slayer, these guys really fall short. Honestly, I found them more annoying than actually threatening.
However, for some reason I think this was done on purpose since, as we all know, Nine is right there.
Right now, I'm really hoping they do Nine justice. Right now he has the potential to be possibly one of the greatest villains of all time-- not just in Sonic but on a general scale. If they mess this up, I will be very upset.
In fact, I hope that the spotlight is taken away from the Chaos Council completely, since I feel like they will only hinder the potential that Nine has.
So, again, here's to hoping that Nine will receive justice.
tbh, I thought that Mr. Dr. Eggman would kill all the other members. that would have made him such a ruthless monster, which is accurate to eggman and is the best take.
also, if you like grim Eggmen, then you'd probably like Sonic The Comic (post-issue 7)
@ddux76 Making a villain overly ruthless becomes boring after a while just look at Beast Machines Megatron,who is a prime example of a Villain Sue
@@kingtiger5040sure, eggman can have his hilarious moments, but he's still ruthless. Satam robotnik in my opinion was overly ruthless but that was the point. the ruthlessness added to the grim atmosphere. I would take an overly ruthless villain over the chaos council any day, because the chaos council isn't even funny
@@iheartbacon76True, remember when in SATAM that Eggman scares Snively by abusing him 24/7? Mister Dr Eggman should do the same and abuse the entire council all because he hates other humans (misanthropy) and only wants himself as a human ruler
@@iheartbacon76 Fun Fact: This show is made by Man of Action. Their credits include Mega Man: Fully Charged, Ben 10: Omniverse, and Ultimate Spider-Man.
@@orangeslash1667 so _that_ explains why I don't like it
Honestly and personally speaking, I would prefer the no-holding back version of Dr.Eggman you were talking about in video over the Chaos Council any day. I have question regarding this version of Eggman. Would he work better as the typical, card-carrying villian we are used to seeing…or would he work better as complete monster instead? The latter trope maybe too extreme for children to handle, but it makes sense for the character of the no-holding back Eggman.
That's why i think that they're not gonna be The Main Villains, I think Nine might end up as The True Antagonist!
Can you make a character Analysis vid on Nine and Chaos Sonic?
@SonicmidYou guys ready to watch season 3 of Sonic Prime?
Also, nice Xenophanes pfp
I am gonna make analysis videos on Nine, Chaos Sonic, Shadow and even Sonic (though I will wait for the third season for their character arcs to be completed)
@@stevensavoy927 Season 1C. Don't let Netflix lie to you.
@Sonicmid Indeed. Also, welcome
@@thepjshow Sounds good man. I'm excited for your thoughts
There's typically three types of character arcs in stories and media and it could be the main selling point the characters themselves.
There's: the Positive Character arc, Negative character arc, and Stagnant character arc.
The Positive Character Arc could be a villain or someone not necessarily a villain improving themselves and changing their dark or wrong outlook on topics and actions. A few protagonists and side characters can go through or start off on a Positive Character Arc. You could think of a few examples.
But they can necessarily turn to a Negative Character Arc later.
The Negative Character Arc could be a hero or someone not necessarily a hero becoming very bad and doing the wrong things leading to them becoming a bad guy. Most antagonists and side characters go through or necessarily ends on this Negative Character Arc. You could think of a few examples.
However they could have started from a Positive Character Arc.
Now there's the Stagnant Character Arc. This can be anyone in story and their role could be anything. A large amount of characters and stories have this. Including protagonists and antagonists. From beginning to end these characters are necessarily the same. They didn't have anything to learn from the start because they began from a point where their characters didn't need anything else. Characters such as Goku, Frieza, Kirito, and Ichigo all are like this. As the story continues they learn new things and progress and they aren't necessarily the same but if you look back, the person they are fundamentally the same.
People say this character arc is bad or this is why these characters shouldn't be liked. But stories with these characters are needed because sometimes it literally is just the way it is. And that's a good thing. It doesn't mean that the story is lacking in some capacity, it's just that it wanted things to be straight forward for you to know who these characters are meant to be. Sure this may be weaker than the other arcs but it's just as much needed in a great tale. 👍
The majority of characters in Sonic Prime will be in a Stagnant Character Arc.
Like the Chaos Council, New Yolk Amy, Knuckles and Rouge, almost- all of the Forest variants, all of the Pirate variants, Chaos Sonic and Shadow.
(Now I know Shadow has changed his mind on a few stuff and he progressed but he didn't change to a Positive Character Arc because he never was on the wrong side. It was just his actions on an activity he wanted to hold out on before Sonic changed his mind. Shadow is on a Stagnant Character Arc. It may make it sound like nothing's happening to him but like I said earlier it's not quite as stagnant as the name makes it sound.)
There's actually three characters in the series who were never on a Stagnant Character Arc.
Sonic, Nine Tails, and Thorny Rose.
Sonic is currently on a positive character arc as he's learning just how much things he had right before him before they're all gone, to then later care for them and appreciate.
Nine turned to a negative character arc since his tragic backstory and to when he was first introduced. He has been helpful and seemed to be a friend but his outlook and mental state was never better than how it was after his backstory. He may turn to a positive character arc in the end or may stay the way he is if Sonic can't get through to him.
And then Thorny Amy turned to a negative character arc after the others in the forest didn't respect anything. And then she turned to a positive character arc right in front of our eyes and on a better path now.
I actually like the chaos council,espically dr deep,he got dance moves man.
Lol i like dr done it “shut up and do your yogurt”
Him and deep are funny
I think the most egregious part is how empty everything but New Yolk feels. Where is everyone else?
THANK YOU! I thought I was alone at HATING these characters!
Modern Sonic villains who are not Eggman(I mean, they are, but you get what I mean) suck? No way! It is really making me tired on some level, makes me really glad that Frontiers exists because even tho its villain is nothing particulary special writingwise, it is a bottle of cold water in the desert.
11:02 Yeah, the only games that were specifically aimed at an older audience were Shadow and Frontiers. The IP at large is definitly all ages leaning towards the kids-side. In general, people excuse poor quality with "It's made for kids!" way too often. It just goes towards the point of "So you are saying it sucks on purpose? Still means it sucks, bucko."
Although I don't think the Chaos Council is awful, I respect your opinion and you have some good points. I really like their comedy with each other, and it got more varied as each member split into teams of 2 (I especially like Dr. Done-It and Dr. Deep's banter). Even though they are more goofy takes, I think they put enough pressure on the heroes to still remain a threat at all times, like there was always something going on in Season 2 that kept Sonic on the move or kept him in an intense battle (maybe except for episode 1 since that focused on Sonic and Shadow). I also believe that the argument of all 5 of them representing different bits of Dr. Eggman's personality is intentional, because the first episode of Season 1 has a quote say "One makes five, five makes one!"
I like Dr. Babel mainly because it’s fucking funny seeing Dr. Eggman, a genius inventor as a fucking baby.
I’m not saying he’s not annoying. He fuck himself for all I care he’s really annoying so he can go kill himself but it’s just funny seeing Dr. Eggman as a baby and also in my personal head canon. He was the one that did most of the work do you wanna take over Greenhill zone and turn it into New York City.
Would it be wrong to say that I actually liked the Chaos Council? I've been watching the Sonic Prime series recently and I find the Council pretty nice and evil characters.
And yes I even like Dr. Babble.
It's even worse when you realize they already did this "What if Eggman, but different realities" schtick with Eggman Nega from Blaze's world. I always kinda liked the idea of "What if" scenarios, as does Sonic as a franchise: Chaos is in its very DNA...both figuratively, and VERY literally. But I feel like, in this respect, the problem stems from them being 5 characters instead of just one. Speaking from experience, when writing a whole team, villainous or heroic, you're casting a wide net, and the issue therein is that, inevitably, some of the good stuff's gonna slip through the cracks and not everyone's gonna get their fair share (that was a clumsy metaphor, but I'm sure you get what I'm saying). In these clowns' case, they're focused too much on exaggerating the hallmark traits of Eggman instead of just...making another Eggman but with ONE of the qualities removed. Sounds ill-advised, but you'd be amazed how one small change can affect a character or even an entire story. "What if Tails leaned full tilt in to the machines and rejected the idea of organic companionship?" It changes up his entire dynamic, yes, but you could feasibly believe that version of the lovable yellow twin-tailed companion we all know and adore exists out there in another reality somewhere. I do not for a single solitary second believe that ANY member of the Chaos Council is a version of Eggman that exists in an alternate reality: they are, at best, brand new characters divorced from Eggman's identity, aside from sharing his likeness kinda...
Btw, maybe Eggman level narcissism myself, but it's really cool hearing you mention my thoughts on *THAT* scene from Sonic Adventure 2...even if it's very likely I wasn't the first to bring it up, but I just thought it was cool, anyway, sooo...*shrug* ;)
Imagine if SEGA made the IDW comics a series like Prime
This is my take on the chaos council.
These are eggmen that never really evolved or changed since the beginning, because sonic didn't exist and their unstoppable rampage made these overinflated egotistical jerks more well.... egotistical.
They never changed or adapted cause well... they didn't need to when they took over green hill to create new yolk city, it shows when they tried to make a solution to kill sonic, all they could ever come up with is making the robots bigger, cause they didn't have the same growth like the original eggman did.
Only mr doctor eggman was aware of the situation and adapted, since he is more closely resembles the original eggman.
tbh i expected the egg council to have their own mechs when i saw the baby but alas we dont get much
Honestly I would’ve been happier if we got a robotnik akin to the Archie comics and snivley.
Instead of nine having no friends, he could had the freedom fighters without sonic. His downfall as a character is when they all turn into something like rusty rose.
Instead of the bickering of the council, we could see the abusive dynamic between robotnik and snivley, with the robotizised freedom fighters taking over each realm.
And in the end, instead of robotnik creating a whole big eggman, he could have a small suit he could control as if he’s like iron man. It would be on the same level as super sonic prime.
Once he’s defeated (aka killed maybe) snivley could take advantage and take over for him, creating a cliffhanger that has him becoming the new villain, just like satam.
Or maybe on top of that we could have nine also becoming a villain, as his goals is reverting his friends back to normal but needing all of the chaos shards power in order to do so.
Just a thought tho
i feel like they should've taken the same approach to the council as the ratchet and clank team did to emperor nefarious in rift apart
I swear towards the end of Season 2 I was expecting one one them to turn against the others and join Sonic. For some reason the old man seems most likely to me