"Confusion on a ship is nothing to fear" but it is something to be concerned about. Confusion breeds mistakes and mistakes can cost lives. Since I am a veteran and served in the Navy, I can say this with knowledge of how ships are and their operations.
The captain is right about running the drill when he did. It is much better for your people to fail during a drill under stressful circumstances than to fail under a real combat situation. Failing under combat conditions usually means you're dead whereas in a drill you can at least address the shortfalls and mistakes later.
There is a fine line between ensuring proper discipline, training and regimentation by pushing your people to the limit, and pushing them over and getting them into real danger. Though the XO agreed with the captain that the man who died in the fire didn't do so because of the drill, privately he probably did not agree. And I would too. There are a lot of ways to create a stressful situation such as running different drills back to back. This was unnecessary. Furthermore, while captain Ramsey was certainly right that the XO shouldn't question him in the open, it's also equally clear that Ramsey DOES have a problem being questioned and pays lip service to the idea that the XO shouldn't automatically follow his lead. It's likely he never realized this himself, people with personalities like him often create social situations where most other people find it difficult to engage or question him. It's probably one of the reasons why he made captain. That same personality led him to arrogance and obstinacy, and that led to a death of a man when he ordered this drill. I think I see a lot of people these days empathize with Ramsey and his methods, but frankly, the message of the movie is much more obvious. Ramsey justifies many of his actions in this movie in a lot of grey areas and woolly thinking. That has some appeal in a world that has come to look like it's shaded in grey with platitudes like "for the greater good". Hunter, the XO, demonstrates however that there is a clear right and wrong that still exists in the world. The board of inquiry scene at the end of the movie indicated that both men were right and wrong, with the situation favoring Hunter. However, after that scene, Ramsey indirectly admits Hunter was right, dressing it up as a final quip about horses. Ramsey was basically admitting that while his actions could be justified, Hunter had the true right of the situation, which should have had a clear right and wrong.
Fire aboard a sub is one of the most dangerous conditions you can encounter. The Captain might get a better feel for launch preparedness during an emergency. But if you lose the boat to accomplish that, you have failed at your mission.
going to guess you've never served. The reason drills are made, is to create habit, second hand nature. Safety should never be compromised, never. Getting attacked in real life then that's a different scenario but drills, the Capt. was plain wrong. This almost wouldn't never happen in real life. /IC2 Former Navy
I hated Captain Ramsey when I watched this as a teenager, now over 20 years later I realise it's not so cut and dry. I disagree with his decision but understand why he did it.
The benefit of cutting out the context is that we are forced to look directly at Captain Ramsey's callousness for life that would allow him the justify the idiocy of launching world ending nuclear weapons without confirmation of what the last message entails. We have men and women behind those keys to make good decisions when sometimes only intuition could resolve the variables...otherwise there is no difference in putting a computer command because a computer would have launched on the one order alone. Intuition says if you got a message immediately after an order to fire...it's quite possible the next order wasn't to have a party for the end of the world. Obviously it's an order to stand down. Common sense says to check first before you doom the planet.
@@brendanmoloney89 Normally context allows for rationalizing. "He did this because of that." But just looking at the behavior itself removes that. It also allows us to match his demeaning behavior with his more callous statements. Context is, he believes in toughness through hardship. But without the context you see the dehumanizing. Let's take the example of the Captain saying they shouldn't contradict each other in public. But twice the Captain does exactly that when he's putting the ship in peril. 1. Calling out Hunter before the entire crew on the loud speaker. 2. Telling him to shut the F-up. That's lets us see clearly outside of the context his pure actions not matchinghis words. It's removing the distracting elements. I'm not saying this the best way to reason a person's motives but it does tend to show hypocrites for what they are.
Using the bomb was no mistake... but it was ultimately unnecessary. The Japanese were already trying to surrender. They wanted to keep their emperor... and we made them keep him anyway... in order to enforce US control. Two cities need not have been flattened over that disagreement.
The empire of Japan was willing to spend another million Japanese lives, civilian and military, in defending the home islands. Losing to the US was the best thing to ever happen to Japan.
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Nuclear war is the enemy. Best line.
"Confusion on a ship is nothing to fear" but it is something to be concerned about. Confusion breeds mistakes and mistakes can cost lives. Since I am a veteran and served in the Navy, I can say this with knowledge of how ships are and their operations.
The captain is right about running the drill when he did. It is much better for your people to fail during a drill under stressful circumstances than to fail under a real combat situation. Failing under combat conditions usually means you're dead whereas in a drill you can at least address the shortfalls and mistakes later.
There is a fine line between ensuring proper discipline, training and regimentation by pushing your people to the limit, and pushing them over and getting them into real danger. Though the XO agreed with the captain that the man who died in the fire didn't do so because of the drill, privately he probably did not agree. And I would too.
There are a lot of ways to create a stressful situation such as running different drills back to back. This was unnecessary. Furthermore, while captain Ramsey was certainly right that the XO shouldn't question him in the open, it's also equally clear that Ramsey DOES have a problem being questioned and pays lip service to the idea that the XO shouldn't automatically follow his lead. It's likely he never realized this himself, people with personalities like him often create social situations where most other people find it difficult to engage or question him. It's probably one of the reasons why he made captain. That same personality led him to arrogance and obstinacy, and that led to a death of a man when he ordered this drill.
I think I see a lot of people these days empathize with Ramsey and his methods, but frankly, the message of the movie is much more obvious. Ramsey justifies many of his actions in this movie in a lot of grey areas and woolly thinking. That has some appeal in a world that has come to look like it's shaded in grey with platitudes like "for the greater good". Hunter, the XO, demonstrates however that there is a clear right and wrong that still exists in the world. The board of inquiry scene at the end of the movie indicated that both men were right and wrong, with the situation favoring Hunter. However, after that scene, Ramsey indirectly admits Hunter was right, dressing it up as a final quip about horses.
Ramsey was basically admitting that while his actions could be justified, Hunter had the true right of the situation, which should have had a clear right and wrong.
Fire aboard a sub is one of the most dangerous conditions you can encounter.
The Captain might get a better feel for launch preparedness during an emergency.
But if you lose the boat to accomplish that, you have failed at your mission.
When wehre you in teh service?
Drills shouldn't get your crew killed, otherwise you're doing something wrong. Dead men learn no lessons.
going to guess you've never served. The reason drills are made, is to create habit, second hand nature. Safety should never be compromised, never. Getting attacked in real life then that's a different scenario but drills, the Capt. was plain wrong. This almost wouldn't never happen in real life. /IC2 Former Navy
I hated Captain Ramsey when I watched this as a teenager, now over 20 years later I realise it's not so cut and dry. I disagree with his decision but understand why he did it.
One day, it'll be very clear for those pushing the buttons, sending those birds to their targets.
"Now's not the time." Make your depth one five zero feet all stop."
Very inspiring
VERY
Cut out all context
The benefit of cutting out the context is that we are forced to look directly at Captain Ramsey's callousness for life that would allow him the justify the idiocy of launching world ending nuclear weapons without confirmation of what the last message entails. We have men and women behind those keys to make good decisions when sometimes only intuition could resolve the variables...otherwise there is no difference in putting a computer command because a computer would have launched on the one order alone. Intuition says if you got a message immediately after an order to fire...it's quite possible the next order wasn't to have a party for the end of the world. Obviously it's an order to stand down. Common sense says to check first before you doom the planet.
It would've done what you said better without the edit.
@@brendanmoloney89 Normally context allows for rationalizing. "He did this because of that." But just looking at the behavior itself removes that. It also allows us to match his demeaning behavior with his more callous statements.
Context is, he believes in toughness through hardship. But without the context you see the dehumanizing.
Let's take the example of the Captain saying they shouldn't contradict each other in public. But twice the Captain does exactly that when he's putting the ship in peril. 1. Calling out Hunter before the entire crew on the loud speaker. 2. Telling him to shut the F-up. That's lets us see clearly outside of the context his pure actions not matchinghis words. It's removing the distracting elements. I'm not saying this the best way to reason a person's motives but it does tend to show hypocrites for what they are.
@@saquist is a terrible edit bro, stop excusing it
@@nobytes2 seems fine to me. I'll continue to support it
Using the bomb was no mistake... but it was ultimately unnecessary. The Japanese were already trying to surrender. They wanted to keep their emperor... and we made them keep him anyway... in order to enforce US control. Two cities need not have been flattened over that disagreement.
The empire of Japan was willing to spend another million Japanese lives, civilian and military, in defending the home islands. Losing to the US was the best thing to ever happen to Japan.