Journey to the Heart of Winter (Jon & Dany Endgame Theory)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2020
- Following up on "Born to Burn the Others," I'll be going further on what I think the confrontation between Daenerys (and Jon) and the Others will actually look like, and what it is that they'll have to do at the Heart of Winter. I'll also offer my explanation for the Shade of the Evening trees and explain why they foreshadow a collision between Daenerys and the weirwood trees.
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title image uses "Daenerys Targaryen and Drogon" by Meeva - บันเทิง
Sacrifice for the algorithm gods. All hail Suggestos, god of suggestion.
Pre-hyped for A Dream Of Spring
I have hopes....secret hopes.
Keep the hope alive lol
I'm hyped too. And I feel like I'm going to be hyped till I turn 90 when it comes out( I'm 25....)
That's an inter- *door squeaks open, stomp stomp stomp, door squeaks closed followed by door slamming* -esting point about Jon Snow
Lmao I love the suffering on ur face with the door opening and closing. I feel so connected here haha
I don't know what took me so long to think of this, but after listening to LML for so long it just occurred to me: no wonder it is taking GRRM so long to write these books! LML is finding so much symbolism and parallels in these books that seem so purposeful. It seems like they can't be accidents. So I have to imagine how much time and care it takes GRRM to implant all that into his books. Its not like regular fiction writing where the author doesn't have to stop every other sentence, or go back over every sentence, so they can make sure the words are exactly what will draw a parallel to a passage they wrote 3 books ago!
it's interesting bc it seemed as the books went on the longer it took him to release the next book
Exactly. Id rather get one amazing book every decade than a substandard book every year, these stories have gotten insanely detailed and articulated. I do expect dream of spring to take less time than WOW because itll be wrapping up stories, and POV characters are gonna get merked left right and center
My biggest wish is for him to grow old enough until he's done telling his stories.
@@irishpotatothief531The fear with this is that because of Martin's age he might not have the time to finish the series
Like Martin said him “im more of a fade wr when it comes to writing.”
Martin takes his time. I’m thankful for that. Yes, I grow impatient. I’m sure we all do. However, I’m anxious to read martins depiction of Jon and dany’s ending. The ending of the show wasn’t satiable nor was it even a bit satisfying. So, I’m hopeful to see what Martin will do. I know his writing will be much better, and it’s worth the wait.
I do think there’s foreshadowing for a romance between Jon and Dany - ie everything you’ve noted, plus Dany’s recurring faceless dream lover.
Ah shit I meant to put that quote in there!!!
But if jon is resurrected he won't have blood flow will he? Pretty sure Baric has no blood flow, same with Lady Stoneheart.
His cock was cold as ice
@@The.UsurperYou get an erection when you die due to rigormortis.
Out of a lot of the people I've come across on the internet, no one's mind intrigues as much as yours does. That is why I want to share these things with ya.
thanks Matt, I definitely know that there is a lot of occult and tarot ideas in ASOIAF...
@@DavidLightbringer Oh, even the most genius of ASOIAF analyzers are only beginning to scratch at the surface. GRRM knows more than you'd think, it may seem tinfoil at first, but soon you'll see that it's silver, amber, diamond and labradorite.
When the show was on a lot of people speculated that Bran would warg a Dragon but I suspect if anyone's warging a Dragon in the books it'll be Jon. If he's gonna ride a Dragon he must first form a bond with it. And as a skinchanger he is capable of warging an animal that he has a bond with.
And if R+L=J (it does), he has dragon blood and can connect with them in ways other skin changers cant
And his skinchanging magic will be stronger (I think) post resurrection.
Literally everyone who has ever riden a dragon wargs with the dragon its the only thing that makes sense at all. They dragons always know exactly what their riders want to do without any sort of vocal command whatsoever. The times when the dragons are disobedient or fly their owner off to some random place the rider obviously wasn't able to warg with the dragon for whatever reason, maybe the dragon resists idk, or they were mentally unable to successfully warg at the time. I just don't think it makes sense at all for someone to ride a dragon in ASOIF without warging the dragon.
@@A_Black_Sheep94 I hear what you're saying, and it makes a lot of sense, but there appears to be a small yet significant difference between warging and the dragon bond. Wargs or skin changers, not only control their animals, they experience their animals thoughts and perspective, and can even take conscious control of their bodies. It's a two way psychic link. The dragon bond appears to be one way. While it's clear that the dragons can sense and be influenced by the intentions and emotions of their riders, I can't recall seeing evidence of the opposite, as we've seen with the Stark kids.
However I could be wrong. The only dragon rider who's a pov character in the books is Daenerys, and I don't think she's fully bonded with Drogon, as he clearly isn't subject to her will. Maybe in TWOW when Daeny fully bonds with Drogon she'll experience a two way link more akin to that between the Stark kids and their wolves. But based on what we've seen so far, the dragon bond doesn't appear to be quite the same as warging, albeit clearly similar.
Definitely should explore Hekate mythos if you get time. In her Psychopomp role, leading Persephone out of the caves of Hades she is bringing the return of spring to Earth. Shes also associated with Dragons and serpents.
On another note I just heard about an ancient warrior queen called Dihya al Kahina who fought the Arab Muslim invasion of what is now the region of Morocco and is said to have used fire scouring against her enemies. Really interesting if you get the time to explore.
Watched the livestream but commenting here on the replay to boost your algorithm juice. Keep up the awesome work, brother!🤘😎
I appreciate it, thanks!
This comment is meant as a burnt offering to the algorithm gods
I come here to renew the offering to the algorithm gods
🔥
🔥
💥
For the platform is cold and full of terror
It certainly makes sense that Dany liberates the undead who are captive to the White Walkers. Her mission is to free those who are enslaved. I love your videos. They are based on careful reading and analysis. If Martin never finishes, I'll go with your interpretation.
I highly doubt the Wights are sentient or contain a soul to be free. They're most likely robot like moved by magic.
Coming at us again with some great symbolism and weaving it all together. I agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying... Daenerys is the hero and she will literally free the world by freeing the trapped spirits in the North before the long Dark could overtake everything. It's her destiny. Perfect ending for the character, and as you've shown us this is almost certainly where it's going. Also side note, Jon and Ghost merging into one being when he is resurrected, sacrificing Ghosts physical body (Mythras and the White Bull), that's beautiful. Great discussion LML. You never disappoint.
aww thanks LemmieBee!! Glad you enjoyed it :)
When Ghost and Jon merge, would he remember what Ghost did in the time they were apart? Ghost took seemingly a long time to get back to Castle Black, perhaps Bloodraven or the Cold Hands used him for something in that meanwhile.
I would think so, yeah. I hadn’t thought of that
From a hardcore Dany fan: You are the Lightbringer in my Long Night of Quarantine. Bringing the righteous dawning of Truth and Redemption, to the black nihility, of a world destroyed by fools whom slay the Just and put down the Heroes of Life.
There. A pretty poetic thank you for your work, to feed that hungry algorithm. Keep it up, LML! 💜 You’re one of my favorites!
Love this...I'll never look at ants the same way again
"Nobody is fucking wolves or dragons or trees here". Well yeah, you have to read the Bran chapters for that.
For Dany and Ghost mirroring, Ghost was also the lost runt of the litter initially, having crawled away or being pushed away. I was aware of the colours mirroring but finding out everything else also lines up so well is very cool.
Hah, Dany claiming the wights for her own and marching them on the rest of Westeros XD All hail the fiery Night's Queen! But seriously, our new Amethyst Empress undoing the fuckery of the original Bloodstone Emperor would be all kinds of dope :D Fiery Blood Vengeance for the original Blood Betrayal.
Thanks for all you do LmL, I'm really enjoying these long theory vids. I'm a sucker for symbolism and yet wasn't even aware of just how much there is in ASOIAF!
Somehow I doubt it's achievable to completely fix how much the Dawn Empire and the Valayrians fucked the world. They'll probably defeat the others and save the world for a while but they'll be back eventually.
This is the first time in my life I've left a TH-cam comment. I love Thrones/ASOIAF and your content is some of the very best in this community. Keep it up and damn the man and his algorithms!
Everybody throw a moon meteor on that like button.
Your videos are endlessly rewatchable, and every time I rewatch one, I catch something I missed before.
Dude!!! Thank you so much for the serious amount of time you must have spent reading and re-reading and researching all the information needed to HASH out your theories. Ive been a huge fan of the books since the beginning and you my friend have breathed whole new life into the series for me. I humbly thank you Maester Lucifer.
Perfect! Great material as always. Thanks for catching all of the details for us!
Your channel was what really got me into ASOIAF. I had read te books before and I really liked the show, but it wasn't until I saw this Mythical Astronomy and I was hooked. I live for your shows. My husband and our little boy listen/ watch your vids like every day. You're awesome
I can’t get enough of your content! I really appreciate your hard work
Love the content. Well thought out. Thought provoking. Fun. Cheers to another great live discussion
All the work you have done for the series is so unique and eye opening. You have reveled many secrets and an overall understanding of ASOIAF, but I think more than that, you have discovered a way (Georges way rather) that each characters arc is laid out. And now that the story makes more sense we can guess at the many paths of the future ( when expectations are subverted it will be because their are so many options).
Regarding the imagery parallels with the Daznak’s Pit scene, when you mentioned wreathed in flame and writhing it reminded me of the demonic images seen in the tent with Mirri Maz Duur.
**LOL! I had to stop the video to make that comment so I wouldn’t forget it by the end. Then when I begin the video again you immediately started making this exact comparison.😄
Your videos & podcasts have always been great, but they are of especially higher value of late. Thanks for the great analysis and insight.
I love you takes on the symbolism of these stories, very satisfying and so interesting, I will be rewatching again before and (optimism is king) after the books come out
I love your videos and I'm always happy to see new ones. Keep up the good work man
A little help to fight the algorithm entropy
Love your channel. You catch so many tiny details that are important to the story. That I missed in my reading.
1:02:18
As long as Ghost’s flesh is not burned, I think it would be dope for Jon to wear Ghost’s fur coat as a headdress/cape and become Jon the White (like Gandalf in LOTR)
now that's a cool and creepy mental image!
That seems a little fucked up and macabre!
Lucifer means Lightbringer Dany has her White Lion fur, why not Jon lol 😅
More amazing symbolism and analysis! Thank you for being so generous with your ideas!
as always, love your stuff mane...your're the best at what you do...thanks a million
Can't get enough of your videos my dude. I don't have any friends who are as dedicated to unraveling grrms mysteries (save for my wife, who's probably well over me droning in her ear about whether or not dark sister will end up in the hands of a stark...) as I am, so I just wanted to say I appreciate you for breaking down every aspect of these stories.
I’m early in the video and I’m sure I’ll have more content oriented questions when it is done.
At this point now however it is incumbent upon me to tell you that your videos are awesome. The live streams as well as the stand alone stuff both work in individual ways. You have a true talent for communication both in cadence and delivering the speech side of things as well as the comprehension and explanation of the ideas.
Not to mention your content has helped me calm the fuck down during these crazy times.
Thanks man keep up the great work. Us myth heads gotta soylent purple together. Praise be to heresy, May the algorithm smile upon you.
❄️&🔥
Soylent Purple, oh yeah, that Purple Drank baby. Thanks for all the support Matt :)
Loved your previous video with Dany , now watching this and enjoying it , thank you !
You went live just as I was going to sleep, so I'm watching in the morning instead of working :D Boost to the algorithm!
Top o' the morning to ya :)
You're videos are most excellent. What's more is that it all makes complete sense. It's fact that George R. R. Martin uses symbolism in his writings, so exploring this avenue is absolutely key to helping understand what GRRM is getting at with his story.
Great content as always! Thanks for this.
You always have great content. Please keep it up. From South Africa.
this channel is the best channel 🙏 🌒☄️
ill never read a work of fiction the same way again now that my mind has been opened to your starry wisdom
Wow, thank you! That's the best thing anyone can say :)
Watching this after your stream today!
Peace and wholeness fam
Nice work as usual dude!
Keep up the good work LML! 💗
Thank the Gods that these streams exists, they help getting through the long night of pakking before moving. You are the true Azor Ahai.
LML, you really do put out some of the best ASOIAF content. Cheers!
Another great episode! Can't wait for you to tackle more Euron stuff LmL
This might be one of the best streams you’ve done. Like, wow.
thanks, i remember it well! a lot of ideas floating around here
@@DavidLightbringer uhh YES lol. I was picking up what you were putting down.
Loving rediscovering this story through magic, mystics and blood rituals.
Great stuff always enjoy!
Nice one. Appreciate the depth and humour. Thanks.
Have this, algorithm!!
Good job as always, Lml!
Always love your videos, man. Don't wanna sound too sappy but i get hyped as when they're about to be released. They give me a much needed taste of ASOIAF while we wait for TWOW. I'd be in the livestreams but i don't live in your TZ. Keep it up bro, and fuck the algorithms.
Nothing smart to add, but just commenting to screw the algorithm: once again an excellent stream with several eye-opening moments. Thanks!
Whenever some dunce complains about WoW taking so long, I send them to your channel. This shiz is DEEP. Thank you for puzzling it out for us! 🐉🤘
Yeah we know that many people primarily read for the main plot, but yea it is my hope that watching my videos encourages people to go deeper into the story we already have
Shade of the Evening trees are a reminder of a once radiant time of the Great Empire of the Dawn, whose sun has set
Just to add to the Jon Dany connection with the eye color, Ghost has red eyes and Dany has purple eyes right, but Longclaw's pommel has garnet eyes which are a reddish purple.
This was a great post!!
And you are right, the Dany Mad Queen thing really is a show only thing. Re reading the book, you see all the nuances of her character and really discover that her prime motivation is helping others (not the Others.) In the show, when she did a badass ultimately good thing, she usually just looked badass or even vengefull, deprived of all her inner thoughts from the books, she sometimes seemed to enjoy her rightfull killings. Take the Astapor scene for instance. In theb ooks it's on at least 2 whole chapters I think, and the killing of the master is the culmination of a lot of plans and feelings. She really suffers when she sees the horror of slavery. While in the show, even if it still is a cool scene, she might appear cold and conquering.
Sorry for spaming lol
That’s assuming that The Others are NOT slaves themselves… they might be slaves tho… what’s more likely to me is that the wights are slaves, I’d say that much is certain, they’re clearly not enjoying themselves and just like slaves they seem to have no agency and are doomed to never rest.
Just like all the slaves that she’s freed thru her story it’s going to be essential for her to release them from bondage. I’d actually argue that the house of the undying is a prison for for the shadow bound souls of the others, they’ve waited 1000 years for her… because they know she was the only one who could free them… by destroying them or their prison.
Had they been left then they’d still be trapped there after the wall goes down and their physical form is destroy… their soul would still be trapped and used as a power source for evil .
Nah Dany has shown bits and pieces of madness from the start of the series. I doubt it'll be like in the show but the road to hell is paved with good intentions and I'm pretty sure Danys on that road.
Great video as always
I'm hoping John's return is 10,000% messier and bittersweet than it was in the show. Awesome video, as always DL.
These videos hold me up while waiting for the next book.
Also I suspect Euron will be warging a kraken and riding a Dragon. After all what would be the point of establishing that some Ironborn historically had skinchanger abilities unless an Ironborn in the story turns out to be a skinchanger. And who better than Euron, the Kraken King!
Your analysis makes me so PUMPED!
TH-cam just "suggested" your latest vid to me, (even though I've been subscribed for years,); and gave me a poll asking if this was a good suggestion. LOL, Hell, yes! When they asked why, i checked Novel, Informative, and Entertaining. Hopefully, that is part of the algorithm correcting itself.
Interesting! I have to assume that helps, yeah :)
Love your streams
Love the content, thanks as always
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video. No specific commentery, just boosting the algorithm.
Love this stuff man!
Just started rereading ASOIAF keeping symbolism in mind. It literally changes the entire story. I have to thank you for opening my 3rd eye LML
Love your work! :)
Hi! I love your channel a lot! I have read all the books📚 of Game of Thrones, right now I’m reading the last one “ Dance with Dragons 🐉 “ and thanks to you my friend who’s helping me to understand a lot of things about that Fantastic World of Ice 🧊 and Fire 🔥. Keep up the good work, you’re Awesome 👏🏻 👏🏻👏🏻😎🇨🇦🙋🏼♀️🐉🔥🐉🔥🐉🔥🧝♀️
Emoji storm!!
This video changed how I saw the world of westeros. I may not always agree with your all of your points... But man when you are on you are on!!! Love that BOB reference.
Awesome vid... I’m new here but your very insightful!!!
Keep up the good work LML.
Great stuff as usual
I never comment I’ve been watching you since you first started keep it up
I don’t turn the bell on much but you’ve got me good sir!
Not to convince you of lemongate, but what is your opinion on GRRM's response to being directly asked about this:
Fan:
"Dany remembers a lemon tree outside the house with the red door in Braavos, but citrus trees shouldn't really grow in Braavos's cold, foggy climate. Is this discrepancy significant? Does it point to future revelations about Dany's past? Thank you so much.
"
GRRM:
"Very perceptive of you.
Yes, it does point to . . . well, that would be telling."
I remember like a year or two ago when LML was at around maybe 10k. He deserved more subs then and still does.
15:55 “Poetic and romantic and sad, pretty cool.” That is an understatement.
The idea of Dany rising into the sky, floating with the stars, swimming in the greensea/weirwoodnet. Jon, in the wierwoodnet at this time in Ghost, becomes privy to her and her dragons, realizes that he needs her, calls to her. Then Jon is reborn as Azor Ahai, of ice and fire.
Nice, a lot of cool Dany Jon symbolism here. Thanks LML 😊
Your videos are always intelligent, and fun.
Thanks Cooper!
Great stream! Glad I could finally make it for a live one again. Do you think Dany being called Mhysa connects with the night's queen being the mother of the others? Sorry if that's already been covered
You mentioned the weirwood organism at the night fort, why would such a door be necessary? The night's king wouldn't have needed it, and based off of Coldhands' interaction with Sam and gilly the night's queen isn't able to use it. Also, could this be the passage under the wall that gendel and gorne used? Black brothers defecting to the wildlings is definitely a thing. Do you think the door has some greater significance on the story, more than just admitting Bran through the wall?
I tend to think so, but I don't know what it is. What I do think is that that weirwood organism is so unique and magical that it seems likely that the Nightfort was built around the weirwood, and possible even the Wall too.
@@DavidLightbringer Hm, predating the wall doesn't make much sense to me. Being planted/ created at the same time as the wall, maybe even as the magical link or source of magical protection that the wall provides I think would be more likely. Thanks for the content, gets the brain juices flowing.
@@DavidLightbringer this just hit me, with all the targ beast babies and momma deaths, blood magic and "blood of the dragon" speak, could the story of Nissa Nissa in reality be a childbirth? She died in the birthing bed giving birth to.... bear with me on this...a dragon? Puts a new spin on her willfully bearing her breast Haha.
The first dragon bursting from Nissa Nissa's chest like an Alien! I like that! Like the second moon cracking. In any case, the sex and childbirth metaphors are there in the Azor Ahai myth for sure!
@@Sinfjotli22 watch LML's "Dracomorph" vid
I also think the N.N myth is hinting at childbirth.. "agony and ecstasy"
Love this channel. 💙
Great content!
Great Discussion! I wonder if part of Bran's confrontation with the Other's Weirwood net will be to download their knowledge as well (whatever that may be) before destroying it and them. Or perhaps, that type of magical plane should not be accessed by man, seeing as how men trying to dominate these magics brought the others into existence in the first place?
My thinking is that the Others might be able to "go back into the trees" after the greenseer mind is gone.
Damn! That’s some poetic commentary! Nice!
You're brilliant. Thank you!
Great livestream. Hope my Patreon question makes the cut for the Q&A later this week.
Oh I will get them all :)
Although I think your videos are awesome and every hour spent listening is worth it, I must admit that I was hesitant at first to really start watching your videos simply based on how long they were. I'm just thinking that maybe people aren't going to click on a multiple hour video to watch next.
Well, that's why I started doing the shorter, produced videos, and those have been very successful, both on their own and in terms of directing people to the longer episodes. It's only take a downturn about 3 weeks ago.
Best ASOIAF youtube channel
The fact that you don't have 1M subs is almost as great a crime as what they did to Dany in S8...
Almost.
thank you!!
It seems so implausible in the show Cersei being the final enemy unless they made her and Euron this insane like necromancy wielding rulers or having gun powder and cannons that gave them the edge
Can confirm the algorithm fuckery as I wasn't subbed but suddenly stopped receiving *any* rec whatsoever about a month ago. Problem solved, will now receive notifications for all new posts
Stupid people: "Duh, she's mad."
LML: I'm sorry, I ban stupid people as soon as I see them. ❤
Loving this theory!!
Love you and Love your work too...💕