Yamaha 23 for me. In Yamaha's quest to wrestle the begginer market from Seller Bundy, they actually created a pro horn. I'm starting to see more & more videos of 23 vs VI, & rightfully so.
Yes it's pretty crazy, isn't it? The Yamaha sounds really good, I'd say to the level of the Mark VI. It's a different tone color, but it matches up to the Mark VI better than expected, for sure!
Yes you're definitely on to something there. Most listeners will never know the difference, but I suppose it comes down to which horn will allow the player to do what the player wants to do on the horn.
From what I can hear through my quite cheap headphones, the selmer has more of that sultry smouldering sound. I always associate them as having this weight to the sound. The YTS is brighter sounding. Both are very good.
Hallo Dustin, Your playing is very elegant and firm. You can can make any beginner sax sound like a professional one. As for the brightness of the Yamaha ( which I personally do prefer), it can be easily modified by the position or thickness of the reed or by placing the right moutpiece. Anyway thanks for your time and and energy. You're a great player !!!
@@dustinhellenThere's a big difference due to intonation, vibration and more crisp in the side of Mark 6. Thats my honest assessment without partiality.
@@solecaring1230 Mark VI is more crisp...interesting! I can see that. It also has a more articulate sound; sharper if you will. Thanks for the comment!
I wanted to add something. I purchased a Yamaha YTS-23 about 10 years ago. Slightly used at a music store called Music and Arts. I got a good deal on it because it was slightly used as a rental. I started to learn it and wanted to play a song for my mother in law and she died and i felt so bad i just put the instrument in storage. Anyway, I've been pretty ill with sinus and ear infections but after watching your video I am setting a goal to get better and to start learning and playing this great instrument.The meds I'm on aren't really doing it for me but i am now setting a positive goal to feel better, I'm praying to the Lord above and also thinking being positive will really really help me. I didn't know how good the YTS-23 is until I saw your video! I have a great instrument and I;'m going to learn it and get proficient. I'm 63 years old but I can do it! Thanks! Your informative and positive video about the YTS-23 really helped me. I think I can start trying again in maybe 2 weeks.
I have owned a ton of horns over the years(3 VI's, a VII, 10M, YTS-23,61,62,82Z and lots of others). I currently play a YTS-23 and while it does have a brighter sound overall, it is well setup and is the easiest to play, most in tune horn I have ever owned. Sound wise I prefer the Mark VI.
Amazing .I really enjoyed it :D,. i liked them both, but you can really hear some of the richness more pleasantly from the Mark IV in the slower melodies
I thought the same. On the fast bebop run I wouldn’t care which sax it was, but the slower melody sounded nicer on the MkVI. Little rounder tone, little less brassy. That Yamaha does sound good though.
Hi.. Both horns are good.. The selmer is better.. But not by much.. which l was surprised.. l own a 62 and a Ref 54.. And my 54 is definitely better then the 62.. But yet again l sound like me on both.. Lol.. I think mouthpiece and reed set up make a huge difference.. Great video..
Hello, I play my Mark 6 since 1970 and, honestly can't ear important differences. Both are very good and similar for me. In short, I believe the good player can make good sound with all good professional brand..Conn, Martin,King,Rampone &Cazzani, Yanagisawa, Yamaha, and many other brands. Yes have many different keys solutions, like all of us have different hands and fingers... Very good demo video,thank you.
For my middle school band (I’m in 8th grade) I’ve played multiple tenors I’ve played two different selmer bundys I’ve played a mark 6 and my current one is a yts 23 the selmer was amazing to play I feel like it had the best tone but the yts 23 felt better to hold and actually play and the tone isn’t much worse plus it’s A LOT cheaper so honestly I think I’ll take the yts 23 over the mark 6
I sold my instrument many years ago when I fell on hard times. Found a decent price on a 23 and can't wait to play again! Also, the 23 will be a nice step up from my old horn. Thanks for the video and nice playing!
I have listened to this video several times, and I think beyond the fact they both sound amazing, the main difference is the Selmer Mark VI just sounds more balanced. With the YTS, the higher tones seen to cut through and be the dominant sound, it just sounds a lot brighter. But, the Mark VI sounds a lot more balanced and rounded.
The YTS is much MUCH brighter and breaths much easier. I've played a Mark VI, a Yami custom of that 23's generation, and a 23. The Mark VI and the Yami custom both breath easier, while the 23 takes a bit more. That said, the custom and the VI (bracing for haters) are quite close, with the VI edging out for a slightly mellower tone. The 23 is a great horn, and it's alto variant is good too.
More mid focus and especially high mids on the Yamaha. Expected. Low mid focused yet open the Selmer with looser bass. Expected too. Both nice. (Selmer nailed the In a sentimental mood tone...)
Yes, the Mark vi, is the king of saxophones (in this example, his sound is warmer and rounder than the Yam.), but is the king for jazz.. While the SA sii is the king for pop and rock, and may be, the SA siii it is for Classic music. BUT, there are other brands like J. Keilwerth, Buescher Yanis, Yamaha, Borgani, etc, etc .. very, very close in all aspects (and very lower prices.. except Yanagisawa) Thanks for your exclt stuf!
Interesting comment. Yea when I was in college all the other sax majors played their Series 3 for classical, while i had my Yanagisawa. I had the VI for jazz band though. I probably wouldn’t play it in a sax quartet though
Thanks! Great to hear about you starting on such a great horn! If you need help starting, check out my “how to play saxophone in a half hour “ video. It may help you . Let me know when you get it and what you think!
@Dustin Hellen The response and sound were virtually identical, but the 21 was lighter. After a few sets standing on stage, that makes a difference. The 21 was stolen (along with my favorite mouthpiece). I have a YTS-23 now that is not as good. Luck of the draw, maybe.
@@JiveDadson Oh man,...that really sucks that your 21 was stolen! Sorry to hear that. I'm always trying different horns to see if I like something better than I've already got. If I find something, I want it! Hope you find something you're really into. You probably know already, but I can't recommend Yanagisawa enough!
I've played a 62 tenor before too, and the Yamaha seems like it's a more centered sound to me, kinda like it can be used for a variety of different sounds.
Yamaha don't have nothing to envidiate to Selmer. In my situation only Im playing 2 years and hope play like you on future mr Hellen. Kind regards from CHILE Many thanks
Great demo.. Tenor VI have fatter,richer tone,,no comparaison. Y23 still sounded really good,,but with a rather thinner sound! Still ,,i also agree that Y23 are the finest student sax to start on! All the best Thanks Mario
Do you have a video on how maybe different brands of mouth pieces might change the tone. I read that Stan Getz used a certain brand of hard rubber mouth pieced or actually different brands of hard rubber mouth pieces I think to get different tonal qualities. Maybe the mouth pieces makes a difference in the tonal qualities between the Selmer and the Yamaha? I was looking online and saw some hard rubber mouth pieces really get pricey. For someone like me does it really matter? Maybe in a month i might be able to play a tune like row row row your boat! Anyway I hooked to laptop to better speakers and am amazed how good the YTS-23 sounds. What mouth piece do you use for it. Is it the factory one?
I have a Jody Jazz metal mouthpiece, and I don’t own a hard rubber piece for tenor because I don’t need one for the music i play on tenor. I did do a hard rubber comparison video for soprano, but not for tenor. If I can track down some more mouthpieces for testing ill do a video on that for tenor.
i previously owned a Selmer SA80 II and now use a Yamaha Custom Z Mark II with a Theo Wanner Brahma 7* mouthpiece and this setup is powerful. There’re definite sounds differences between two, but it’s also about response and feedback from the horn and of course feel and key action. My alto is a Yanagisawa AW030 and plays very well top to bottom which is why I may consider a Yanagisawa Tenor in the future.
@@rickstokes2239 You wouldn’t be disappointed! One thing Yanagisawa does to a very high level (among many others) is consistency throughout the range. I had a T991 a while ago and it was a great horn! Let me know if you get the Yani tenor!
How did the action feel in your fingers? Did the 23 feel more spongy or is it just a matter of adjustment to get it as slick as the vi? Does the 23 have an airy octave A like the vi? Which one had the stuffier middle D? Its hard to feel the vibration from just a microphone pickup. How does each sax make the room shake? Does one horn vibrate more in your hands? These are some of the finer details players are looking for and your input would help the community. Thanks in advance!
I'm the original owner of a 220 series VI. Bought it at a local music store in the early 70's for $680.00. I had a YTS-23 for about 5 years as a back up and lugging to school sax. While there is no argument that a well trained pro player can get a great sound out of just about any horn, that isn't the only metric by which a saxophone is judged. My VI, while not quite a "killer" as was often the moniker of the best of the best VI's and SBA's. It served me will in big bands, jazz combo, wind ensemble, solo recitals, pop/R&B/funk bands. thousands of hours of practice. When I'm gone and it gets sold to someone else, it's not going to get a wacky 5 figure dollar amount, but it will serve someone else for several more decades as a great playing, great sounding saxophone. If that person cares for it, it may serve another generation. I can testify to that because I have a 13,XXX series Super Sax alto that is approaching 100 years old. I dare say, my YTS-23 while it sounded good, I highly doubted the longevity of the instrument. It served me well for those 5 years, but I couldn't sell it fast enough because...it didn't feel sturdy and strong like my VI. Today there are many manufactures producing fantastic saxophones, even Yamaha for quite some time now. Even back in the 50's and 60's there was a debate between guys who played Conn, King and Selmer. The King of saxophones is the one that calls to you to be taken out of the case and played. All the other stuff is personal preference and in some cases brand loyalty. Mark Colby said he wouldn't play anything but Selmer saxes. He had a "KILLER" Reference 54 and a gold plated VI. That was his choice. We sax players can make any sax sound good. I just don't see the point of these comparisons, other than an attempt bash the Selmer Mk VI. Don't knock the horn if haven't owned or played one. Knock the guys who think they should get $10-15K for a 60-70 yr old sax.
I really enjoyed your informative video. I am thinking of getting a YTS 23 OR 275. I am however a little confused; how important is having a F# key on a tenor sax?. If not is it difficult for a beginner to achieve? Thank you John
I don't have an F# key on my Mark VI and I can still get it by using an alternate fingering: Front F fingering + side Bb key (Front F key, A key, side Bb key). This fingering is a touch harder than using an F# key, but if you know how to play a high F with the front F key already, it should be a breeze just adding the side Bb to it.
"People say Selmer is just a convenience, it's a standard response due to the mystique of the brand. However, Yamaha has shown much more beauty and brightness in sound. I prefer Yamaha."
Great demo thank you. For me the MK Vi shaded it in terms of dept and quality of sound imho if that makes sense. I doubt if the casual listener could differentiate . I wonder how closer it would be if you compared the Mkvi to a professional Yamaha say the YTS 62. I've played a number of quality saxes ,Keilwerth, Martin and now play a generic Taiwanise which has great ergonomics and tone. When I change instrument after a while I just sound like me again and friends can't differentiate between my sound on one sax or the other. It makes changing the instrument on the basis of perceived better sound/tone a bit of a luxury. Just my two cents.
Hello Dustin, For me, I find that the MARK VI has a softer sound and the YTS-23 is definitely brighter. I have had a YTS-23 for 40 years and about twenty years ago I bought a Yamaha YTS-875 the latter compared to a Selmer reference 54 are very close (the price also by the way) to my YTS- 23 I unlacquer it and since then it has a terrible sound ! and it is unbeatable in the superacute. In the bass it's obvious the Mark VI, the reference 54 and the yamaha YTS -875 and other prestigious saxophones are much more efficient (the price too) Thank you very much for this comparison you are a great saxophonist and in my opinion a lot sax will sound great in your hands 🎷😎👍
Exactly! This is the reason I did this comparison. You can still get a student level Yamaha and sound similar to a Mark VI , all else being equal. Thanks for the comment!
About 5 years ago I had a Mark VI and a YTS-21. I preferred the 21, especially for gigging. I sold the VI. The 21 was stolen. Now I've got 23 that have overhauled.
Mk6 for me. Fatter and more expression, but I guess it depends on which you play all the time as that'll sound the best. Would be interesting to swap the necks and see if the sound follows it. Doubt if a casual listener would ID the differences though. I have 62 and Z, both great saxes. :-D
Yea that's an interesting point! Maybe i'll swap necks to see the difference in sound (if any). Which do you prefer more, the 62 or the Z? Just curious.
@@dustinhellen prefer the z but play the 62 with a ref54 neck. Striped the laquer off of the 62 so people assume it's a selmer 🤣 the z is too valuable now to gig so sleeps under the bed
What we can't tell is how it Feels to play each instrument. Most musicians know that Finding that " just right" Instrument can enhance expression And creativity.
This is very true. If the horn feels right when played by the individual player, it can definitely enhance the sound even more and allow for more expression.
Selmer has been invented pretty much for jazz. It has a very pleasant tone. YTS-23 is better for pop music provided that you used the same mouthpiece and read. It is also louder.
You know the crazy thing is that back in 1954 when they created the Mark VI, it had a lot of improvements over the previous horns but back then it was just the most current modern horn of the day, like the Selmer Supreme is today. People back then had no idea the Mark VI would be so highly treasured today. Why did a lot of pros play them? They had all the refinements over the previous horns. Now, people want them because the greatest saxophone players played them.
I think only downside of 23 is simplified mechanic of left pinky (and probably lack of high f#, but i suppose lower notes you need more on tenor). Otherwise, it is a great instrument for its price. Well-built and tuned well.
Thanks for watching! Altissimo is difficult, it takes a lot of practice, and patient neighbors/family to get it right! Plus, some fingerings for altissimo work better on different horns than others.
Hey Dustin, which tenor did you have to adjust the most for good intonation? That, I think, may be a big difference in the 2. Great video and playing thanks
The Yamaha 23 punches so far above it's own weight. The 23 simply has a little more edge and projection while the Mark VI is definitely a warmer tone but, I doubt most people would hear that difference. I owned a couple of 23s and still play a 1981 Yamaha YTS-62 and a 1991 YTS-32 as well as a big bore Elkhart which is pretty much a Selmer Mark VII.
Thank you. I have listened to comparisons before where the phrases were simply too long, and you forget what the 1st sounded like. Quick lets your mind make up which one you like faster, I agree!
Mark VI by a mile--it has that heart, that center to each note. But your playing is very good, and both horns sound nice...which goes to show, it's the player, mostly (FWIW, I own a Mark VI).
I am so amazing that both saxophone sound so good. Just a little different, at certain speed. I guess the Yamaha sound brighter. In fact I own a YTS 23 and Selmer seriers 2 tenor. Both are my favour.
Selmer has more core and darker sound. If you want that and most people do the Selmer is a better sound. Try the yamaha 875 custom against the Selmer mark 6. I play s silver plated 875 custom. I would find that very interesting 🤔
Thanks for the comment! I have played an 875 custom tenor before, but I don't have one available right now. When I do, definitely a video in the future!
Interesting! In a world where everybody picks the Mark VI (I think it has a lot to do with the brand/model), the Yamaha sounds better to you. That's interesting, because with the Yamaha I was able to control my sound a bit better, and I felt more confident. With the VI it has more character I think, so you have to really shape the sound to get what you want. The Yamaha doesn't require you to "work" as hard to get a good sound.
I’ve owned several mark VI horns over the years some are great and I’ve had some that were too difficult for intonation. Hell the were out of tune, no matter who played it. The Japanese horn were so consistently lively. I love them. The German sax was too heavy for me with a more muscular sound but too heavy and different center of balance for me. I won’t go near a China horn but the Taiwan horns have promise I’m not that experienced on those.
This is very interesting. Most people (including myself at the time I got my tenor) were looking for that "sound" they picture in their heads and the Mark VI seemed to provide that for most. However, the horn would be harder to control and keep in tune consistently. This is where a modern horn comes in. Ergonomically perfect, solid intonation and very clear response, but that "special sound" wasn't there; something was missing. Honestly, if I were to switch to a modern tenor, I would switch to a Yanagisawa, primarily because I love the soprano and alto that I currently own. Owning a Yanagisawa tenor would be nice, but it would provide the tenor sound I have in my head.
I liked them both the selmer is more fat, rich, creamy and pronounced more deep all threw the horn. But the Yamaha and the Yanagasawa are beautiful also.
Interesting! Yea I think most people are saying the Selmer has a lot more meat to the sound than the Yamaha. I thought the Yamaha sounded great too, it's just "different".
The Yamaha sounds edgier, and has less warmth in it's tone. The Selmer, has this dark and vibrant tone that I really like. But to be honest, Yamaha builds really good and affordable horns. And I am biased because I own Yamaha and Selmer horns.
Completely understandable. There's that "selmer sound" that you get when you have a good VI, and then there's modern horns like Yamaha in your case or Yanagisawa in my case that sound great and have superior keywork and refinements. I like a Mark VI in a tenor but for the other saxophones i'm Yanagisawa all the way.
For me the Yamaha was much brighter and very obviously so just in the first one or two samples. I like the warmth of the Selmer for jazz and the brighter and harsher sound of the Yamaha for jazz/funk/fusion. A lot would also depend on the venue if live and the mix if recorded. And of course you can colour the tone of both saxes by changing the mouthpiece. I'd buy the new Yamaha.
Thanks for the comment. It really is interesting how both have different colors to their sound. I like how you mentioned the Selmer has a warmth that is more suitable for jazz. Which do you have?
afeter a couple of tunes.. any listener, even the most aged ternosirt would say is a nice tone that of YTS23. I think they both sound great. As alwyas is the musician, not the instrument. I could say the same from some cheap chinesse horn although they are imrpving their copies.
@@dustinhellen absolutely! But I can tell you that 99.) of listeners wont hear the difference at all. Only the player! hahaha But it is worth it all the way !
Wow very interesting and great comparison ! I guess it depends if you value the slight difference when played by a good player to $7,000 ? Never played the Selmer, but the Yamaha is indeed great even for some gigs, if you can play well. The Yamaha sound is very good for the money if you can say so. But at the coffee break, it does sound better when you say "... I play the Selmer ..." 🙂
@@dustinhellen yes of course.. the Mvi has a warmer sound.. the yam is realy good but his sound is not only brighter, but a bit more raw. Thanks for your good video and your clear, correct and nice english that permit us, the strangers, understand very well the message. Thanks and bless. Regards from Argentina. P.d. your performances are realy great.
@@dustinhellen I actually quite liked the higher tone of the Yamaha. Granted it's wasn't as milky or mellow but it seemed more crisp and resonating. Just my opinion.
@dustinhellen just wonder why the mouthpiece is so expensive? Will it sound total difference and very easy to blow? Sorry I am very new to the saxophone world. However, as a new player, I want the mouthpiece that gives me the easiest to blow with the best voice I can get. Thanks so much!
@@lanphanh Jody Jazz is a top-quality jazz mouthpiece maker. The one I play is gold-plated, so that racks up the price quite a bit. You don't need that though if you just want a free-blowing mouthpiece. I found Claude Lakey to be a great company that has some really great free-blowing mouthpieces. I play on a Claude Lakey for my alto, so I would recommend that brand if you're looking for cheaper.
@@dustinhellen Thank you! I am just a new sax learn and play. However, I like the good sax voice. Hence, I am looking around for the good mouthpiece I could offer. Thanks again!
You could switch the audio tracks between the videos and you would still mostly get the same comments. No one will say the Yamaha sounds as good as a MK VI if they think they know which track is which! Try it some time!
Personally, I prefer the sound of your Mark VI, as someone who loves jazz, but does not play the saxophone. It seems to have a softer attack, and a smoother, rounder tone. The action of the keys does seem to be relatively louder, though (not sure if keys are louder or horn is quieter). On the practical side, I don't care what saxophone Coltrane used. It's the music. And I would take the Yamaha, if I could get it cheap enough (since I don't play, but want to learn, and am a major cheapskate). The scales happened to be most useful for comparing tones, because it was non-musical and switched rapidly from one sax to the next (quickly switching back and forth over the exact same notes, is the key).
Thanks for the comment! Yes it is the sound that counts, that's for sure! If you get your hands on a saxophone and are looking to learn but can't find a teacher, check out my "Learn the saxophone in a half-hour" video. I go over the basics of setup and learning the first 5 notes, and at the end I teach you to play some jazz featuring the notes you learned.
@@dustinhellen To me, the Selmer has a warmer/rounder/more intimate tone. And by 'band' I was thinking of a large band, not just a few players. Both sound great though and not sure the Selmer is worth the upcharge.
@@timbucker Ah yes I think I understand where you're coming from now. I think I understand that when you say the Yamaha is better for a "band" it can "cut through" the sound of a band in a solo situation or lead role, or in a rock/funk band where you're playing really hard on the horn, the horn can cut through a bit better because you can push it more. Is this somewhat close to what you're talking about?
Your setup to compliment your style of playing is just as important as the instrument. Sometimes you can’t find the differences until YOU play it. Here’s another comparison you’ll enjoy. th-cam.com/video/x383vfm2fuY/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the recommendation video. Yes it’s definitely true that you feel a difference yourself when playing. Ultimately that is what makes you buy the horn in the first place
Yes of course! You can get altissimo with any saxophone. Some require slightly different fingerings than others for the same altissimo note you are trying to hit. Why? Do you have a yts23?
@@marr694 Altissimo is a more advanced technique that you learn one you have a good foundation on your proper embouchure and you’ve done many exercises with overtones. It’s also one of the more difficult techniques to control when you’re first trying to learn it
I've played a YTS 62 for the last 6 years, along with another lad who played V1. To be honest ,onlookers found no difference whatsoever. I've also played the V1, but found the YTs easier to play. They are both fantastic machines so its really down to the player and individuel opinion.
Yes, it certainly is down to the individual player. How a horn "feels" when playing it is a big difference between different instruments. To the audience, it may sound identical, but they are not the ones hearing the sound every single day like we are when we practice with them.
@@dustinhellen ok here goes... When i saw your question asking why I had another listen of your video at the shower room and hear the video played out with the phone in the bathroom sink for an attenuated volume. I still orefer the Selmer because it's tone is warm and richer than the Yamaha. Nothing wring with the Yamaha it is decent. Just that the Selmer is has a better tone. The fast passages is more well defined than Yamaha. And you played those dirty growling or screaming notes the Selmer sounds very organic and depicts the growls and screams more sexier than the Yamada which just does the job but not as expressive as the Selmer. But hey what do I know? Cause me just a rock guitar player with a Marshall half stack. But if I'm a sax guy I will lust over the Selmer. The Selmer means business, man. Play the Selmer at a gig and you get flying panties and sexy offers from the crowd apary from getting paid. Play the Yamaha at a gig and you just get paid for the gig.
@@ericchng6102 Hahah! That's hilarious. Panties flyin' eh? I've gotta bring that horn to more gigs then! But seriously, I like how you said the Selmer was warmer,...I like a warmer/darker sound more too.
@@dustinhellen the Yamaha has a brassy sonic signature that may appeal to others. But to me a great sax tone must be just right to score romantic misunderstandings there and there after the gig.
There is a lot of truth to this. I think ultimately it depends on how the horn feels to you as a player when playing it. Buy the one that feels the best to you
Yes the difference in sounds is very little. You are using same Mouthpiece and Reed I hope. Now it’s to be seen that the key mechanism are smooth and would last how long in life. Mark Vi has that small edge in sound
The mouthpiece is not student model, and your audio capture is high end. Are you using a tube pre-amp? Compression? Limiter? So. It is misleading to imply that the student model horn is on par with a pro horn if your audio treatment is influencing what we hear on TH-cam.
To be honest, i'm not much of a sound engineer. I just have the mic because it makes the sound clearer. I didn't add any of the extras you mentioned. The goal of this video was to see that if you buy a student horn it can still sound great and similar to a high-end horn, just with different colors.
@@dustinhellen Then please accept my apologies. Your sounds on both horns are that good, even great. I was sure you were stacking the deck so to speak. Enjoyed the video.
@@dustinhellen yup most would pick the selmer. The quality of sound is better on the selmer but not to far from the yam. But the yam just has the modern layout and a slightly better resistance. I have played vintage and it is always a trade off between ergonomics, nice resistance and resonance. I do play a lot though.
Ultimately it's a tradeoff. Do you want the iconic Mark VI sound from the 1950's with keywork from that era, or do you want a completely modernized and improved horn but without that "iconic sound"?@@tonysales3687
That's fair. Some people notice a difference, some people don't, but it's ok either way. It's interesting though that the Yamaha sounds remarkably similar to the Mark VI, even though it's a beginner level horn.
Very little disernable difference IMHO. If you want a piece of history buy the mk6, if you want a reliable modern good looking sax and by adapting reeds mp,s excetera get the sound you want, buy the Yam!
Could be this comparing horns is getting to be like comparing players. They are both good etc. but one makes more $. Horns are cheap. Try buying a Stradivarius . Or ask if people who don't know or care if they can tell the difference blindfolded.
Yea sometimes I feel saxophones are expensive until I think about a stradavarious violin that is over $1,000,000.....cheap compared to something like that!
The point is to try to explain through sound that a student model sax can sound similar to a pro sax. Did it sound worse than the Mark VI? I think not, just different, but still a good sound. Thanks for the comment.
All these people claiming that they can hear the difference I think are just experiencing placebo effects. I have a $1,000 speaker system and they both sound like...saxophones (could be because of youtube's compression algorithm or could be the actual horns). The biggest factor in the sound of the instrument is the shape of the mouthpiece. However, they might feel very different to the player. One might be easier to play, the palm keys might be easier to reach, the low Bb maybe comes out more quickly, lastly, it just might resonate in your head and body a little differently. I don't buy into the Mark VI hype... I'd rather get something newer. Technology has advanced a lot in the past 60+ years, I'm sure saxophone makers have figured out a thing our two since then and that's why a cheap-ish student model now sounds like a top of the line horn from 1955.
Very good points! Yea I know what you mean about the modern horn. If I didn't have my VI tenor I would get a bronze Yanagisawa tenor. I'd be lying if I said I didn't buy into the hype a little bit too when I bought the horn about 13 years ago.
Interesting analogy! That is a great question. Why pay so much when you can get something cheaper and sound almost the same? I take it you’re not one who buys into the hype?
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Yamaha 23 for me. In Yamaha's quest to wrestle the begginer market from Seller Bundy, they actually created a pro horn. I'm starting to see more & more videos of 23 vs VI, & rightfully so.
Yes it's pretty crazy, isn't it? The Yamaha sounds really good, I'd say to the level of the Mark VI. It's a different tone color, but it matches up to the Mark VI better than expected, for sure!
95% of your listeners will never know the difference...Get a solid Yamaha and Save your money. The player and MP set up make it what it is.
Yes you're definitely on to something there. Most listeners will never know the difference, but I suppose it comes down to which horn will allow the player to do what the player wants to do on the horn.
@@dustinhellenso true! For you, which saxophone do you feel most connected with in this regard?
I totally agree
I'm playing yts 23 with 62 neck and Selmer mp in a result of good sound.
You make them both sound fantastic! I had to close my eyes to hear differences. IMHO the Yamaha sounds brighter, less complex, less jazzybuzzy.
Interesting! Yea the Yamaha does sound a bit brighter for sure. Good observation!
From what I can hear through my quite cheap headphones, the selmer has more of that sultry smouldering sound. I always associate them as having this weight to the sound. The YTS is brighter sounding. Both are very good.
I agree, the Yamaha has a slightly brighter sound than the VI.
Hallo Dustin,
Your playing is very elegant and firm. You can can make any beginner sax sound like a professional one.
As for the brightness of the Yamaha ( which I personally do prefer), it can be easily modified by the position or thickness of the reed or by placing the right moutpiece.
Anyway thanks for your time and and energy.
You're a great player !!!
Thank you!
@@dustinhellenThere's a big difference due to intonation, vibration and more crisp in the side of Mark 6. Thats my honest assessment without partiality.
@@solecaring1230 Mark VI is more crisp...interesting! I can see that. It also has a more articulate sound; sharper if you will. Thanks for the comment!
@@dustinhellen it depends how you adjust your mouthpiece to tune your Selmer Mark 6. Using your head makes you more smarter how to play better.
I wanted to add something. I purchased a Yamaha YTS-23 about 10 years ago. Slightly used at a music store called Music and Arts. I got a good deal on it because it was slightly used as a rental. I started to learn it and wanted to play a song for my mother in law and she died and i felt so bad i just put the instrument in storage. Anyway, I've been pretty ill with sinus and ear infections but after watching your video I am setting a goal to get better and to start learning and playing this great instrument.The meds I'm on aren't really doing it for me but i am now setting a positive goal to feel better, I'm praying to the Lord above and also thinking being positive will really really help me. I didn't know how good the YTS-23 is until I saw your video! I have a great instrument and I;'m going to learn it and get proficient. I'm 63 years old but I can do it! Thanks! Your informative and positive video about the YTS-23 really helped me. I think I can start trying again in maybe 2 weeks.
This is so wonderful to hear! I am so glad i could inspire you to play again! Keep at it, and im sorry to hear about your mother in law
I have owned a ton of horns over the years(3 VI's, a VII, 10M, YTS-23,61,62,82Z and lots of others). I currently play a YTS-23 and while it does have a brighter sound overall, it is well setup and is the easiest to play, most in tune horn I have ever owned. Sound wise I prefer the Mark VI.
Yes I agree. There’s just something special with the sound of the VI, but the Yamaha is very reliable
Amazing .I really enjoyed it :D,. i liked them both, but you can really hear some of the richness more pleasantly from the Mark IV in the slower melodies
Good observation! Did you prefer the Mark VI more in general?
I thought the same. On the fast bebop run I wouldn’t care which sax it was, but the slower melody sounded nicer on the MkVI. Little rounder tone, little less brassy. That Yamaha does sound good though.
You sound awesome on both, man!!! Love your smooth chromatic execution. You've got me runnin' to the 'shed, Dustin...
Thank you!
You are the perfect tester for these instruments, showing that a good player can create a good sound out of almost every horn. Thanks for this video!
Hi..
Both horns are good..
The selmer is better..
But not by much.. which l was surprised.. l own a 62 and a Ref 54..
And my 54 is definitely better then the 62..
But yet again l sound like me on both.. Lol..
I think mouthpiece and reed set up make a huge difference..
Great video..
Yes the Mouthpiece and reed make a big difference for sure.
Hello,
I play my Mark 6 since 1970 and, honestly can't ear important differences.
Both are very good and similar for me.
In short, I believe the good player can make good sound with all good professional brand..Conn, Martin,King,Rampone &Cazzani, Yanagisawa, Yamaha, and many other brands.
Yes have many different keys solutions, like all of us have different hands and fingers...
Very good demo video,thank you.
Thank you for the comment! Yes many people agree that it all comes down to the player and what the player can get out of the instrument.
For my middle school band (I’m in 8th grade) I’ve played multiple tenors I’ve played two different selmer bundys I’ve played a mark 6 and my current one is a yts 23 the selmer was amazing to play I feel like it had the best tone but the yts 23 felt better to hold and actually play and the tone isn’t much worse plus it’s A LOT cheaper so honestly I think I’ll take the yts 23 over the mark 6
Yes! A LOT cheaper, and still a great horn. Great deal on the Yamaha for sure!
I sold my instrument many years ago when I fell on hard times. Found a decent price on a 23 and can't wait to play again! Also, the 23 will be a nice step up from my old horn. Thanks for the video and nice playing!
Thank you! Enjoy the 23!
@@dustinhellen Been playing every day! Working Onnithology up to speed and also practicing my altissimo.
Both great, Selmer goes very soft, and has many beautiful moments, but also quirky at times. Yamaha intonation and clarity striking.
Interesting points! Which is your favorite?
The mark VI sounds mellower to me but that Yamaha sounds incredible at a price point manageable for regular humans. Thank you.
@@mikelabomusic7782 yes it does! Thanks for watching.
I have listened to this video several times, and I think beyond the fact they both sound amazing, the main difference is the Selmer Mark VI just sounds more balanced. With the YTS, the higher tones seen to cut through and be the dominant sound, it just sounds a lot brighter. But, the Mark VI sounds a lot more balanced and rounded.
The YTS is much MUCH brighter and breaths much easier. I've played a Mark VI, a Yami custom of that 23's generation, and a 23. The Mark VI and the Yami custom both breath easier, while the 23 takes a bit more. That said, the custom and the VI (bracing for haters) are quite close, with the VI edging out for a slightly mellower tone. The 23 is a great horn, and it's alto variant is good too.
More mid focus and especially high mids on the Yamaha.
Expected.
Low mid focused yet open the Selmer with looser bass.
Expected too.
Both nice.
(Selmer nailed the In a sentimental mood tone...)
Yea I definitely agree that the Mark VI has a great sound on the ballads
Yes, the Mark vi, is the king of saxophones (in this example, his sound is warmer and rounder than the Yam.), but is the king for jazz.. While the SA sii is the king for pop and rock, and may be, the SA siii it is for Classic music.
BUT, there are other brands like J. Keilwerth, Buescher Yanis, Yamaha, Borgani, etc, etc .. very, very close in all aspects (and very lower prices.. except Yanagisawa)
Thanks for your exclt stuf!
Interesting comment. Yea when I was in college all the other sax majors played their Series 3 for classical, while i had my Yanagisawa. I had the VI for jazz band though. I probably wouldn’t play it in a sax quartet though
Ripping mate. How many years until I can make those sounds??? My Yamaha yts23 supposed to arrive today and I’ve never played a sax before haha
Thanks! Great to hear about you starting on such a great horn! If you need help starting, check out my “how to play saxophone in a half hour “ video. It may help you . Let me know when you get it and what you think!
At one time I had both a Mark VI and a YTS-21. I preferred the 21.
Really? Why is that?
@Dustin Hellen The response and sound were virtually identical, but the 21 was lighter. After a few sets standing on stage, that makes a difference. The 21 was stolen (along with my favorite mouthpiece). I have a YTS-23 now that is not as good. Luck of the draw, maybe.
@@JiveDadson Oh man,...that really sucks that your 21 was stolen! Sorry to hear that. I'm always trying different horns to see if I like something better than I've already got. If I find something, I want it! Hope you find something you're really into. You probably know already, but I can't recommend Yanagisawa enough!
@@dustinhellen check out a Grassi professional 2000 Sax. For as low as 1000$. Hidden Gem
I liked them both. I play a YTS-62, but if I had plenty of $$ I'd buy a Mark VI too!. It's hard to tell much difference over speakers on YT.
I've played a 62 tenor before too, and the Yamaha seems like it's a more centered sound to me, kinda like it can be used for a variety of different sounds.
Yamaha don't have nothing to envidiate to Selmer. In my situation only Im playing 2 years and hope play like you on future mr Hellen. Kind regards from CHILE
Many thanks
Thank you for the kind words! Yes you have a point on Selmer....most people prefer it over Yamaha. Thanks for the comment!
Great demo..
Tenor VI have fatter,richer tone,,no comparaison.
Y23 still sounded really good,,but with a rather thinner sound!
Still ,,i also agree that Y23 are the finest student sax to start on!
All the best
Thanks
Mario
Yes I certainly agree! the YTS-23 is the perfect starter tenor for sure! Thanks for the comment.
Tengo un YTS23 y soy principiante, el Mark lo escuche más profundo y redondo… siempre quise ver esa comparación. Muchas gracias Maestro
De nada. ¡Gracias por el comentario! ¿Te gusta tu YTS23?
Lo compré de 2da mano en Ebay, luego de investigar mucho, con recurso económico limitado y ganarlo en subasta.. claro!! Amo mi YTS23
Do you have a video on how maybe different brands of mouth pieces might change the tone. I read that Stan Getz used a certain brand of hard rubber mouth pieced or actually different brands of hard rubber mouth pieces I think to get different tonal qualities. Maybe the mouth pieces makes a difference in the tonal qualities between the Selmer and the Yamaha? I was looking online and saw some hard rubber mouth pieces really get pricey. For someone like me does it really matter? Maybe in a month i might be able to play a tune like row row row your boat! Anyway I hooked to laptop to better speakers and am amazed how good the YTS-23 sounds. What mouth piece do you use for it. Is it the factory one?
I have a Jody Jazz metal mouthpiece, and I don’t own a hard rubber piece for tenor because I don’t need one for the music i play on tenor. I did do a hard rubber comparison video for soprano, but not for tenor. If I can track down some more mouthpieces for testing ill do a video on that for tenor.
Love it! Can I like this 1000x? 🎷
Absolutely! Go for it!
i previously owned a Selmer SA80 II and now use a Yamaha Custom Z Mark II with a Theo Wanner Brahma 7* mouthpiece and this setup is powerful. There’re definite sounds differences between two, but it’s also about response and feedback from the horn and of course feel and key action. My alto is a Yanagisawa AW030 and plays very well top to bottom which is why I may consider a Yanagisawa Tenor in the future.
@@rickstokes2239 You wouldn’t be disappointed! One thing Yanagisawa does to a very high level (among many others) is consistency throughout the range. I had a T991 a while ago and it was a great horn! Let me know if you get the Yani tenor!
@@dustinhellen Will do!
How did the action feel in your fingers? Did the 23 feel more spongy or is it just a matter of adjustment to get it as slick as the vi? Does the 23 have an airy octave A like the vi? Which one had the stuffier middle D?
Its hard to feel the vibration from just a microphone pickup. How does each sax make the room shake? Does one horn vibrate more in your hands?
These are some of the finer details players are looking for and your input would help the community. Thanks in advance!
I'm the original owner of a 220 series VI. Bought it at a local music store in the early 70's for $680.00. I had a YTS-23 for about 5 years as a back up and lugging to school sax. While there is no argument that a well trained pro player can get a great sound out of just about any horn, that isn't the only metric by which a saxophone is judged. My VI, while not quite a "killer" as was often the moniker of the best of the best VI's and SBA's. It served me will in big bands, jazz combo, wind ensemble, solo recitals, pop/R&B/funk bands. thousands of hours of practice. When I'm gone and it gets sold to someone else, it's not going to get a wacky 5 figure dollar amount, but it will serve someone else for several more decades as a great playing, great sounding saxophone. If that person cares for it, it may serve another generation. I can testify to that because I have a 13,XXX series Super Sax alto that is approaching 100 years old. I dare say, my YTS-23 while it sounded good, I highly doubted the longevity of the instrument. It served me well for those 5 years, but I couldn't sell it fast enough because...it didn't feel sturdy and strong like my VI. Today there are many manufactures producing fantastic saxophones, even Yamaha for quite some time now. Even back in the 50's and 60's there was a debate between guys who played Conn, King and Selmer. The King of saxophones is the one that calls to you to be taken out of the case and played. All the other stuff is personal preference and in some cases brand loyalty. Mark Colby said he wouldn't play anything but Selmer saxes. He had a "KILLER" Reference 54 and a gold plated VI. That was his choice. We sax players can make any sax sound good. I just don't see the point of these comparisons, other than an attempt bash the Selmer Mk VI. Don't knock the horn if haven't owned or played one. Knock the guys who think they should get $10-15K for a 60-70 yr old sax.
“The king is the one that calls to you to be taken out of the case and played” Well said! Very true…
YTS23s are light, but they are rock solid. They'll be around in 100 yeras.
I really enjoyed your informative video. I am thinking of getting a YTS 23 OR 275. I am however a little confused; how important is having a F# key on a tenor sax?. If not is it difficult for a beginner to achieve? Thank you John
I don't have an F# key on my Mark VI and I can still get it by using an alternate fingering: Front F fingering + side Bb key (Front F key, A key, side Bb key). This fingering is a touch harder than using an F# key, but if you know how to play a high F with the front F key already, it should be a breeze just adding the side Bb to it.
No F# makes altisimo G very difficult indeed.
The Mark VI sounds better to my ears- more rich. The Yamaha sounds great too though! I would like to buy one eventually.
Yes, it's more of a refined and warmer sound, I agree!
"People say Selmer is just a convenience, it's a standard response due to the mystique of the brand. However, Yamaha has shown much more beauty and brightness in sound. I prefer Yamaha."
That’s awesome. Yamaha is definitely cheaper too so you save some money…not a bad thing really!
Great demo thank you. For me the MK Vi shaded it in terms of dept and quality of sound imho if that makes sense. I doubt if the casual listener could differentiate . I wonder how closer it would be if you compared the Mkvi to a professional Yamaha say the YTS 62. I've played a number of quality saxes ,Keilwerth, Martin and now play a generic Taiwanise which has great ergonomics and tone. When I change instrument after a while I just sound like me again and friends can't differentiate between my sound on one sax or the other. It makes changing the instrument on the basis of perceived better sound/tone a bit of a luxury. Just my two cents.
Interesting point! If I can track down a modern pro tenor that may be a video in the future!
Good observation! Sound concept ultimately prevails.
Would be cool to hear a comparison between the MkVi and an 82Zii.
Also, the Mark VI was out of tune in the top register above G
I will get on that if I ever track down an 82zii
@@dustinhellen I have one
Hello Dustin,
For me, I find that the MARK VI has a softer sound and the YTS-23 is definitely brighter. I have had a YTS-23 for 40 years and about twenty years ago I bought a Yamaha YTS-875 the latter compared to a Selmer reference 54 are very close (the price also by the way) to my YTS- 23 I unlacquer it and since then it has a terrible sound ! and it is unbeatable in the superacute.
In the bass it's obvious the Mark VI, the reference 54 and the yamaha YTS -875 and other prestigious saxophones are much more efficient (the price too) Thank you very much for this comparison you are a great saxophonist and in my opinion a lot sax will sound great in your hands 🎷😎👍
Thank you for the compliments! Yes the VI has a warmer sound for sure, more "refined". Thanks for the comment!
The MK VI is better but not by nearly as much as I would’ve thought so given the price of either one I’d have to go with the 26.
Exactly! This is the reason I did this comparison. You can still get a student level Yamaha and sound similar to a Mark VI , all else being equal. Thanks for the comment!
About 5 years ago I had a Mark VI and a YTS-21. I preferred the 21, especially for gigging. I sold the VI. The 21 was stolen. Now I've got 23 that have overhauled.
Mk6 for me. Fatter and more expression, but I guess it depends on which you play all the time as that'll sound the best. Would be interesting to swap the necks and see if the sound follows it. Doubt if a casual listener would ID the differences though. I have 62 and Z, both great saxes. :-D
Yea that's an interesting point! Maybe i'll swap necks to see the difference in sound (if any). Which do you prefer more, the 62 or the Z? Just curious.
@@dustinhellen prefer the z but play the 62 with a ref54 neck. Striped the laquer off of the 62 so people assume it's a selmer 🤣 the z is too valuable now to gig so sleeps under the bed
What mouthpiece are you using? I’m trying to decide my next for my yts
Hey! I'm using a Jody Jazz DV 7*
What we can't tell is how it
Feels to play each instrument.
Most musicians know that
Finding that " just right"
Instrument can enhance expression
And creativity.
This is very true. If the horn feels right when played by the individual player, it can definitely enhance the sound even more and allow for more expression.
Selmer has been invented pretty much for jazz. It has a very pleasant tone. YTS-23 is better for pop music provided that you used the same mouthpiece and read. It is also louder.
You know the crazy thing is that back in 1954 when they created the Mark VI, it had a lot of improvements over the previous horns but back then it was just the most current modern horn of the day, like the Selmer Supreme is today. People back then had no idea the Mark VI would be so highly treasured today. Why did a lot of pros play them? They had all the refinements over the previous horns. Now, people want them because the greatest saxophone players played them.
Very obvious difference. The MVI is centered and clean on every note vs. the YTS23 which “sprays” the notes out. Great comparison
Interesting. I didn't think of the Yamaha as a horn that would "spray" the notes out. What do you mean by that? Interesting comment!
I prefer the yts 23
That is very interesting! Why is that? You seem to be one of the only ones that actually prefers the 23 over the VI!
I play a Yamaha 62 tenor. I have owned a Mark 6 tenor but it just was not the right horn.
Interesting! What did you prefer better in your 62?
I think only downside of 23 is simplified mechanic of left pinky (and probably lack of high f#, but i suppose lower notes you need more on tenor). Otherwise, it is a great instrument for its price. Well-built and tuned well.
Couldn’t agree more!
I own a 23 but found it green and thin compared to the Selmer. Interested that you got a an altissimo on the 23 - I can't.
Thanks for watching! Altissimo is difficult, it takes a lot of practice, and patient neighbors/family to get it right! Plus, some fingerings for altissimo work better on different horns than others.
Hey Dustin, which tenor did you have to adjust the most for good intonation? That, I think, may be a big difference in the 2. Great video and playing thanks
Hmmm I would say I had to adjust the Yamaha a bit more, especially in the low register.
Its not the sax but the player...You were awesome.
Thank you!
The Yamaha 23 punches so far above it's own weight. The 23 simply has a little more edge and projection while the Mark VI is definitely a warmer tone but, I doubt most people would hear that difference. I owned a couple of 23s and still play a 1981 Yamaha YTS-62 and a 1991 YTS-32 as well as a big bore Elkhart which is pretty much a Selmer Mark VII.
Yes I agree. The 23 is definitely a greater instrument than people give it credit for.
How the yts 32 sound compare to the yts 23 and the mark VI
The Selmer Mk VI is still king👍
Long live the king!
A real good comparisson, exactly the same phrases, quickly interchanged.
Thank you. I have listened to comparisons before where the phrases were simply too long, and you forget what the 1st sounded like. Quick lets your mind make up which one you like faster, I agree!
This might be silly question, but does the oxidation on the Selmer Mark VI contribute to the tone being more mellow than the Yamaha YTS-23?
Great question! I don’t know, but perhaps it is possible.
Mark VI by a mile--it has that heart, that center to each note. But your playing is very good, and both horns sound nice...which goes to show, it's the player, mostly (FWIW, I own a Mark VI).
Thank you! Perhaps it really is the player, since there are subtle differences. What’s the year on your VI?
@@dustinhellen 1969 according to the SN.
I am so amazing that both saxophone sound so good. Just a little different, at certain speed. I guess the Yamaha sound brighter. In fact I own a YTS 23 and Selmer seriers 2 tenor. Both are my favour.
I agree that the Yamaha sounds brighter, thanks for the comment!
Dose the Yamaha has a high F# key
It does not, and neither does the Mark VI@@TorvarrisEvans
@@dustinhellen thank u
Selmer has more core and darker sound. If you want that and most people do the Selmer is a better sound. Try the yamaha 875 custom against the Selmer mark 6. I play s silver plated 875 custom. I would find that very interesting 🤔
Thanks for the comment! I have played an 875 custom tenor before, but I don't have one available right now. When I do, definitely a video in the future!
I can't tell. Been playing 48 years and owned a lotta saxes and house is full of sax records and honestly cannot tell . 😅
Excellent! You'd really save a lot of money then!
Mark VI definitely sounds better, however the price difference - yikes! Fortunately I bought one back in the day for less than half that😂
You're lucky you got one back in the day for a lot cheaper! Wish we could buy one now for that kind of money!
The Yamaha...hands down. The sound is fuller, rounder and slightly brighter.
Interesting! In a world where everybody picks the Mark VI (I think it has a lot to do with the brand/model), the Yamaha sounds better to you. That's interesting, because with the Yamaha I was able to control my sound a bit better, and I felt more confident. With the VI it has more character I think, so you have to really shape the sound to get what you want. The Yamaha doesn't require you to "work" as hard to get a good sound.
Did you find Altissimo to be dependable and accessible on the YTS 23?
Yes, but the sound was thinner and less refined
Amazing, show the important the trade mark Yamaha, and the music man are important to execute .
Thank you!
I’ve owned several mark VI horns over the years some are great and I’ve had some that were too difficult for intonation. Hell the were out of tune, no matter who played it.
The Japanese horn were so consistently lively. I love them. The German sax was too heavy for me with a more muscular sound but too heavy and different center of balance for me. I won’t go near a China horn but the Taiwan horns have promise I’m not that experienced on those.
This is very interesting. Most people (including myself at the time I got my tenor) were looking for that "sound" they picture in their heads and the Mark VI seemed to provide that for most. However, the horn would be harder to control and keep in tune consistently. This is where a modern horn comes in. Ergonomically perfect, solid intonation and very clear response, but that "special sound" wasn't there; something was missing. Honestly, if I were to switch to a modern tenor, I would switch to a Yanagisawa, primarily because I love the soprano and alto that I currently own. Owning a Yanagisawa tenor would be nice, but it would provide the tenor sound I have in my head.
I liked them both the selmer is more fat, rich, creamy and pronounced more deep all threw the horn. But the Yamaha and the Yanagasawa are beautiful also.
Interesting! Yea I think most people are saying the Selmer has a lot more meat to the sound than the Yamaha. I thought the Yamaha sounded great too, it's just "different".
The Yamaha sounds edgier, and has less warmth in it's tone. The Selmer, has this dark and vibrant tone that I really like. But to be honest, Yamaha builds really good and affordable horns. And I am biased because I own Yamaha and Selmer horns.
Completely understandable. There's that "selmer sound" that you get when you have a good VI, and then there's modern horns like Yamaha in your case or Yanagisawa in my case that sound great and have superior keywork and refinements. I like a Mark VI in a tenor but for the other saxophones i'm Yanagisawa all the way.
For me the Yamaha was much brighter and very obviously so just in the first one or two samples. I like the warmth of the Selmer for jazz and the brighter and harsher sound of the Yamaha for jazz/funk/fusion. A lot would also depend on the venue if live and the mix if recorded. And of course you can colour the tone of both saxes by changing the mouthpiece. I'd buy the new Yamaha.
Thanks for the comment. It really is interesting how both have different colors to their sound. I like how you mentioned the Selmer has a warmth that is more suitable for jazz. Which do you have?
@@dustinhellen I have an old Jupiter JTS-787 and a newish Jean Paul alto. I like them both but especially enjoy the lighter keys on the old Jupiter.
What mouthpiece were you using in this video?
Jody Jazz DV 7*
afeter a couple of tunes.. any listener, even the most aged ternosirt would say is a nice tone that of YTS23. I think they both sound great. As alwyas is the musician, not the instrument. I could say the same from some cheap chinesse horn although they are imrpving their copies.
Yes I agree it does mainly come down to the musician but there are definitely differences in sound between different brands/models
@@dustinhellen absolutely! But I can tell you that 99.) of listeners wont hear the difference at all. Only the player! hahaha But it is worth it all the way !
Wow very interesting and great comparison ! I guess it depends if you value the slight difference when played by a good player to $7,000 ? Never played the Selmer, but the Yamaha is indeed great even for some gigs, if you can play well. The Yamaha sound is very good for the money if you can say so. But at the coffee break, it does sound better when you say "... I play the Selmer ..." 🙂
Ah yes there is a lot that rides in the name "Selmer" isn't there? Blindfolded, could you tell the difference?
@@dustinhellen ever so slightly (that on the TH-cam audio with good headphones). That leads exactly to your point ! Tks !
@@dustinhellen yes of course.. the Mvi has a warmer sound.. the yam is realy good but his sound is not only brighter, but a bit more raw.
Thanks for your good video and your clear, correct and nice english that permit us, the strangers, understand very well the message. Thanks and bless.
Regards from Argentina.
P.d. your performances are realy great.
I actually like the Yamaha better, surprisingly 😮
That's unique! What did you like better about it over the VI?
@@dustinhellen I actually quite liked the higher tone of the Yamaha. Granted it's wasn't as milky or mellow but it seemed more crisp and resonating. Just my opinion.
Could you please tell me what mouthpiece did you use for this YTS 23?
Thanks!
Jody Jazz DV 7*
@dustinhellen just wonder why the mouthpiece is so expensive?
Will it sound total difference and very easy to blow?
Sorry I am very new to the saxophone world. However, as a new player, I want the mouthpiece that gives me the easiest to blow with the best voice I can get.
Thanks so much!
@@lanphanh Jody Jazz is a top-quality jazz mouthpiece maker. The one I play is gold-plated, so that racks up the price quite a bit. You don't need that though if you just want a free-blowing mouthpiece. I found Claude Lakey to be a great company that has some really great free-blowing mouthpieces. I play on a Claude Lakey for my alto, so I would recommend that brand if you're looking for cheaper.
@@dustinhellen Thank you!
I am just a new sax learn and play. However, I like the good sax voice. Hence, I am looking around for the good mouthpiece I could offer.
Thanks again!
You could switch the audio tracks between the videos and you would still mostly get the same comments. No one will say the Yamaha sounds as good as a MK VI if they think they know which track is which! Try it some time!
Good idea! I might try that as a blind test sometime to see the results.
Personally, I prefer the sound of your Mark VI, as someone who loves jazz, but does not play the saxophone. It seems to have a softer attack, and a smoother, rounder tone. The action of the keys does seem to be relatively louder, though (not sure if keys are louder or horn is quieter).
On the practical side, I don't care what saxophone Coltrane used. It's the music. And I would take the Yamaha, if I could get it cheap enough (since I don't play, but want to learn, and am a major cheapskate).
The scales happened to be most useful for comparing tones, because it was non-musical and switched rapidly from one sax to the next (quickly switching back and forth over the exact same notes, is the key).
Thanks for the comment! Yes it is the sound that counts, that's for sure! If you get your hands on a saxophone and are looking to learn but can't find a teacher, check out my "Learn the saxophone in a half-hour" video. I go over the basics of setup and learning the first 5 notes, and at the end I teach you to play some jazz featuring the notes you learned.
The Mark V1 is the better sound. I suspect that in a wider, more spacious venue it would carry farther even with a darker sound!
I agree!
I would prefer Yamaha for standing out in a band and Selmer for stand-alone or piano accompaniment.
Interesting. Why do you say this?
@@dustinhellen To me, the Selmer has a warmer/rounder/more intimate tone. And by 'band' I was thinking of a large band, not just a few players. Both sound great though and not sure the Selmer is worth the upcharge.
@@timbucker Ah yes I think I understand where you're coming from now. I think I understand that when you say the Yamaha is better for a "band" it can "cut through" the sound of a band in a solo situation or lead role, or in a rock/funk band where you're playing really hard on the horn, the horn can cut through a bit better because you can push it more. Is this somewhat close to what you're talking about?
@@dustinhellen Yes. I think the Yamaha might cut through better whereas the Selmer has a softer tone.
Your setup to compliment your style of playing is just as important as the instrument. Sometimes you can’t find the differences until YOU play it. Here’s another comparison you’ll enjoy. th-cam.com/video/x383vfm2fuY/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the recommendation video. Yes it’s definitely true that you feel a difference yourself when playing. Ultimately that is what makes you buy the horn in the first place
Where was the YTS23 made? Reason I ask is because I found one to purchase but it's made in China, not Japan.
Yamahas are made in Japan, not China. You probably found a knock-off of a real Yamaha.
Do you know what decade that one was from? It has a nice sound and with 23's I've heard the older the better.
I don't remember, I borrowed it from the school I teach at just for this video.@@saxophoneevolution
Okay thanks
pour la différence de prix le YTS23 is better, $900 or $6000 for mark6
So maybe the Mark VI is all hype?
I'll take the Yamaha and a cool motorcycle over the VI! Have had a Vi and sold it for a yts 61.
Ah yes! You could easily get a motorcycle with the 23 for the price of the VI, that's for sure! haha
excuse me, is it possible to reach altissimo with the yts23?
Yes of course! You can get altissimo with any saxophone. Some require slightly different fingerings than others for the same altissimo note you are trying to hit. Why? Do you have a yts23?
@@dustinhellen Yep i do, and im a beginner. So I find it hard on saxophones in general
@@marr694 Altissimo is a more advanced technique that you learn one you have a good foundation on your proper embouchure and you’ve done many exercises with overtones. It’s also one of the more difficult techniques to control when you’re first trying to learn it
Mark VI sounds great but Yamaha is much cheaper and for a beginner like me is much more appropriate
I totally agree! There is a reason the YTS23 is regarded as one of the best beginner tenors!
I've played a YTS 62 for the last 6 years, along with another lad who played V1. To be honest ,onlookers found no difference whatsoever. I've also played the V1, but found the YTs easier to play. They are both fantastic machines so its really down to the player and individuel opinion.
Yes, it certainly is down to the individual player. How a horn "feels" when playing it is a big difference between different instruments. To the audience, it may sound identical, but they are not the ones hearing the sound every single day like we are when we practice with them.
I prefer the Selmer.
Great! Why is that?
@@dustinhellen ok here goes... When i saw your question asking why I had another listen of your video at the shower room and hear the video played out with the phone in the bathroom sink for an attenuated volume. I still orefer the Selmer because it's tone is warm and richer than the Yamaha. Nothing wring with the Yamaha it is decent. Just that the Selmer is has a better tone. The fast passages is more well defined than Yamaha. And you played those dirty growling or screaming notes the Selmer sounds very organic and depicts the growls and screams more sexier than the Yamada which just does the job but not as expressive as the Selmer.
But hey what do I know? Cause me just a rock guitar player with a Marshall half stack. But if I'm a sax guy I will lust over the Selmer.
The Selmer means business, man.
Play the Selmer at a gig and you get flying panties and sexy offers from the crowd apary from getting paid.
Play the Yamaha at a gig and you just get paid for the gig.
@@ericchng6102 Hahah! That's hilarious. Panties flyin' eh? I've gotta bring that horn to more gigs then! But seriously, I like how you said the Selmer was warmer,...I like a warmer/darker sound more too.
@@dustinhellen the Yamaha has a brassy sonic signature that may appeal to others. But to me a great sax tone must be just right to score romantic misunderstandings there and there after the gig.
All tenor saxophones sound the same as long as they are in fully order. The sound comes from the mouthpiece, the reed and the player.
There is a lot of truth to this. I think ultimately it depends on how the horn feels to you as a player when playing it. Buy the one that feels the best to you
MK-VI!
Why do you think the Mark VI is better?
@@dustinhellen Not an issue of better, more like the sound of it is more nice and warm than the YTS-23.
Yes the difference in sounds is very little.
You are using same Mouthpiece and Reed I hope.
Now it’s to be seen that the key mechanism are smooth and would last how long in life.
Mark Vi has that small edge in sound
Yes i am using the same mpc/reed setup for both horns. Thanks for the comment!
The mouthpiece is not student model, and your audio capture is high end. Are you using a tube pre-amp? Compression? Limiter? So. It is misleading to imply that the student model horn is on par with a pro horn if your audio treatment is influencing what we hear on TH-cam.
To be honest, i'm not much of a sound engineer. I just have the mic because it makes the sound clearer. I didn't add any of the extras you mentioned. The goal of this video was to see that if you buy a student horn it can still sound great and similar to a high-end horn, just with different colors.
@@dustinhellen Then please accept my apologies. Your sounds on both horns are that good, even great. I was sure you were stacking the deck so to speak. Enjoyed the video.
@@billstotts2346 No worries! Thanks for watching!
I think we can’t judge from video recording. At some point Yamaha sounds better to me.
Everybody has a different opinion, thats perfectly fine. Which Yamaha do you have?
@@dustinhellen I don’t have Yamaha. Because of the limitations of recording devices, listening live will be different.
The same.
They sounded the same to you? Interesting! You will definitely be saving a lot of money if you buy a tenor then!
Man, that Selmer's tone is soft, bright, dark, warm, and edgy where it supposed to be.
Yea it's got all the right "stuff"!
so close. for reasons of playerbility gonna go with the yam.
Interesting! Most people pick the Selmer.
@@dustinhellen yup most would pick the selmer.
The quality of sound is better on the selmer but not to far from the yam. But the yam just has the modern layout and a slightly better resistance. I have played vintage and it is always a trade off between ergonomics, nice resistance and resonance. I do play a lot though.
Ultimately it's a tradeoff. Do you want the iconic Mark VI sound from the 1950's with keywork from that era, or do you want a completely modernized and improved horn but without that "iconic sound"?@@tonysales3687
@@dustinhellen it is quite a nice dilemma to have though lol
Seller I'm sure feels better in the hands but I couldn't hear much a difference in sound.
That's fair. Some people notice a difference, some people don't, but it's ok either way. It's interesting though that the Yamaha sounds remarkably similar to the Mark VI, even though it's a beginner level horn.
selmer more responsive to "breathy" articulation?
I think that is more dependent on the mouthpiece you are using.
i think without difference between both saxophone, your mouth is amazing instrument.
Each person is different in their individual makeup, so everyone will have a different sound and sound concept, yes I agree!
Very little disernable difference IMHO. If you want a piece of history buy the mk6, if you want a reliable modern good looking sax and by adapting reeds mp,s excetera get the sound you want, buy the Yam!
Yes I agree! Plus, if you buy a more modern horn, you will have fewer trips to the repair tech to adjust things.
youd sound like you no matter what saxophone you stuck your mouthpiece on..
I agree! There are subtle differences between horns, perhaps imperceptible to the audience.
@@dustinhellen You are very correct
Could be this comparing horns is getting to be like comparing players. They are both good etc. but one makes more $. Horns are cheap. Try buying a Stradivarius . Or ask if people who don't know or care if they can tell the difference blindfolded.
Yea sometimes I feel saxophones are expensive until I think about a stradavarious violin that is over $1,000,000.....cheap compared to something like that!
What is the point of comparing a student model saxophone to a professional saxophone? They aren't supposed to sound the same!
The point is to try to explain through sound that a student model sax can sound similar to a pro sax. Did it sound worse than the Mark VI? I think not, just different, but still a good sound. Thanks for the comment.
All these people claiming that they can hear the difference I think are just experiencing placebo effects. I have a $1,000 speaker system and they both sound like...saxophones (could be because of youtube's compression algorithm or could be the actual horns). The biggest factor in the sound of the instrument is the shape of the mouthpiece. However, they might feel very different to the player. One might be easier to play, the palm keys might be easier to reach, the low Bb maybe comes out more quickly, lastly, it just might resonate in your head and body a little differently. I don't buy into the Mark VI hype... I'd rather get something newer. Technology has advanced a lot in the past 60+ years, I'm sure saxophone makers have figured out a thing our two since then and that's why a cheap-ish student model now sounds like a top of the line horn from 1955.
Very good points! Yea I know what you mean about the modern horn. If I didn't have my VI tenor I would get a bronze Yanagisawa tenor. I'd be lying if I said I didn't buy into the hype a little bit too when I bought the horn about 13 years ago.
O custo benefício não vale a pena,só uma questão de status,não adianta ter um canhão pra atirar num Pardal .
Interesting analogy! That is a great question. Why pay so much when you can get something cheaper and sound almost the same? I take it you’re not one who buys into the hype?
Do all saxophonists' neck inflate like his? I'm afraid of what's to come...
It looks worse than it is. There's a lot of pressure build up there.
the 6 is more accurate
Interesting, thanks for the comment
Selmer has core depth that the Yamaha lacks.
Interesting. I agree Selmer has more core, but is it a LOT different, or just slightly?
@@dustinhellen It is not a lot different, but it is BETTER. If you are a professional, you'd clearly want the VI over the Yami.