Complexity from Simplicity? | Episode 909 | Closer To Truth
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- Our universe began with a swirling, seething plasma-everything, everywhere, all the same. Today we have galaxies, stars, planets, people. How did such structure come about? Featuring interviews with Stephen Wolfram, Seth Lloyd, Lee Smolin, Francis Collins, and Frank Wilczek.
Season 9, Episode 9 - #CloserToTruth
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Closer To Truth host Robert Lawrence Kuhn takes viewers on an intriguing global journey into cutting-edge labs, magnificent libraries, hidden gardens, and revered sanctuaries in order to discover state-of-the-art ideas and make them real and relevant.
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Closer to Truth presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.
#Complexity #Life
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17:17 Dr. Smolin, like the rest of your conversation holders, is as interesting as ever. And, when he turns out to be either correct or incorrect, he will still have been right for asking the questions and for proposing their possible solutions...or even their impossible solutions...as it causes others to defend or to edify his ideas.
The scientific method in action is a wonderful thing to behold sometimes, especially when it is presented in such a simple manner.
21:34 Dangit, I type slowly!..lol..
But, speaking of people who make some very good points, and who do so very well...lol
Dr. Wilcek has always impressed the heck out of me, and I don't mean ("just") the Nobel Prize winner...lol
I've said it before, and I will say it again: The humility and the deference with which Frank Wilcek states what he knows and what he thinks; Both of these traits, those of being humble and of quiet fortitude, are sorely lacking in today's world. And this is, sadly, increasingly apparent in the world of academia.
Meanwhile, we see and hear this guy, Dr. Wilcek (as well as your own self, Doc), a true professional who would almost certainly run circles around most of the other "thinkers" at his and the other institutions of higher learning.
I know this is an old video, but:
Thank you.
Go Bluejays!
🙂
Only Love, Love, and Love.
💝💝💝💝💝💝💝
You know it.
Thanks for such consistent information! I love your channel!👍👍💯
Complexity emerges from simplicity through processes like cosmic inflation and the evolution of structures. Initially, the universe began (by the lack of a better word) in a highly homogeneous and simple state after the Big Bang. Quantum fluctuations during cosmic inflation seeded density variations that eventually led to the formation of galaxies and large-scale structures. Over time, gravitational interactions and the interplay of fundamental forces allowed for the emergence of complex cosmic structures, such as galaxies, stars, and planets. Through the natural progression of cosmic evolution, simple initial conditions gave rise to intricate and diverse phenomena. The emergence of complexity is driven by the interplay of fundamental physical laws acting on the simple building blocks established in the early universe. The evolution from simplicity to complexity is a fundamental aspect of the unfolding story of our cosmic history.
There is no way in the world I could sit in front of this dude and not stare at his insane combover.
Very interesting episode. Not sure if this helps, but Scott Page defines a complex system as one where individual elements are: Connected, Interdependent, Diverse and Adaptive. How could complexity arise? Maybe QM fluctuations provide diversity, connecting (interacting) in space/time interdependently through the laws of Physics and adapting (evolving) accordingly. I wasn’t quite sure if this is what Lee Smolin was pointing to - that complexity was there from the start. WHY should complexity arise? Maybe one can invoke the Anthropic Principle, that in the many (infinite) worlds of MWI or the many universes of the Multiverse, only those versions of reality that gave rise to complexity could evolve conscious beings such as us to ask the question. It seems for instance that the existence of gravity not only provided the negative energy that allowed “a universe from nothing”, but also provides the positive feedback loop, whereby tiny differences in the density of the early universe got magnified to become suns, planets, galaxies etc.
I'm amazed that nobody really gets into the very (multiple) definitions of so-called randomness? What is fundamentally speaking "randomness"? One can find orders out of a seemingly chaotic background of some sort and call all those "discovered" patterns as order. On the other hand, one can find chaos in every piece and moment of what we like to call order (e.g. two exact same swiss watch, or two exact HDD or CPU made in a super sophisticated factory would not fundamentally be identical). So in reality, order is chaos and chaos can be interpreted as order. In other words, both Order and Chaos are nothing but anthropocentric concepts that have absolutely nothing to do with the actual ultimate reality, which should by definition be ineffable to begin with.
Many scientists and philosophers tend to use the term randomness here and there, without really deconstructing the term itself to realize that all of such seemingly sophisticated ideas (including the religious creation ideas) are fundamentally speaking, fully anthropocentric and inherently limited in scope. I guess what I'm trying to say is that, at the end of the day it all leads to a funny problem of language. And by language I mean any sort of language be it Persian language, Greek, English or Mathematics.
Yep I was thinking the same thing, what role does the consciousness play in this so called randomness? Perhaps the randomness is conscious choices. Just calling it random seems to say, hey it happens and I don't know why or how.
Another good example is - a smooth round stone found downstream in a river vs a jagged one found upstream. Is the smooth round stone simple or complex? Both occur naturally.
I agree with you 100% It's weird how both reasoning and language are interconnected. I think that's why we have so many problems in reading and interpreting the words of the Bible, especially the New Testament. The Hebrew/Greek languages are so different than other languages. I tried to study Biblical Greek but understanding it deluded me.
Anyhow... regarding the words randomness and order and chaos, they are important words because even the Bible uses such words. And scientifically, they have specific meanings. How do you recommend we "deconstruct" words? By the way, you sound like a teacher?
@@johnbrzykcy3076 Words are nothing more than symbolic representations of some thought/neutral pathway inside our heads. For words to be meaningful all people that use the same word need to have the same concept in their head, also it helps if it means only one thing so it's not confusing. For example the word gender has to be biological for it to make sense, there is already a word for psychological expression, it's called personality, that's how there are a billion genders now supposedly, because everyone has a different personality. Conceptually, words should be coherent, if the definition contradicts itself it's a bad word.
Order and chaos: it depends, psychologically you can think of order as the domain of all that you know, can predict, and control, and chaos of all that you don't know, can't predict and can't control.
In terms of physics, order is the lack of entropy, chaos is maximal entropy.
Randomness: Psychologically that which we couldn't predict, outside of our expectations.
From a perspective of physics, randomness is a sequence whereby future events can't be predicted by past events.
My take: Free Will is supposed to be free from the chain of cause and effect, and thus is unpredictable and may be indistinguishable from physical randomness, or even be the cause of it.
@@Pietrosavr Excellent comment. I like your observations. I agree with your ideas. I should print out your comments. John in Florida
Seth Lloyd: "I'm bald. Ish.
But - I have a ponytail.
I'm _not_ compensating for a lack of hair in general. Don't think I am! I'm not!"
Kuhn: "Right. Uh, but getting back to this information thing..."
Seth Lloyd: "I'm not bald. I have long hair. Do you not see the ponytail? Do bald people have ponytails? Didn't think so."
Kuhn: "Uh huh. But regarding information..."
Edited out of course. The best parts always get edited out.
The corollary Francis Collins pulls was left unchallenged and was astonishing.
Collins will never face reality, unfortunately. He must have incredible needs satisfied by his imaginary God to compartmentalize his reality that way.
@@86645ut I guess as long as he clarifies that it is compartmentalized from scientific views it is OK. This is free country. But if that is not made very clear, he is sited by people who want to inject religious views/ideas into science - something along the lines of "even the chief of human genome decoding project says such and such". In fact Robert was very likely intending of that effect. To that I say, so what? And that does not really bother me as such because in science there is no dictate by authority. If that were true, in science, how would we deal with difference of opinion between Einstein and Neils Bohr on QM. We don't. We continue to analyze and to figure out who was right or may find out both were wrong. That is what scientific method is about. But many religious people do not understand that about science as they are use to authority of religious leaders or books to tell them what to understand. And as such disagreement with highest religious authority is generally not tolerated or else we get sects and denominations or excommunication.
I'm surprised that Stephen Wolfram's 'Cellular Automata' concepts were not mentioned, perfect examples of complexity generated from simplicity.
what an amazing channel. what an amazing channel
Excellent and insightful.
Amazing
Frank Wilczek has a pleasant smiley demeanor. 🙂
Respect and Love.That is all that is needed.
How cute. Did you read that off a t-shirt?
@@melgross no
@@melgross No... it's because he has a deeper understand about who- and why we are. But there's definitely t-shirts saying this too. I will give you that.
@@sven888 I don’t think so. People comment in these channels with pithy statements. But when I ask for some deeper explanation, they either don’t reply, insult me for asking, or wander off in some garbled soliloquy that only makes sense to them and may not even them. The point is that it’s very easy to come up with some wonderful sounding statement. Almost anyone can do it.
Inteligence is the only thing that can bring complexity from semplicity!
The universe was created!
"Inteligence is the only thing that can bring complexity from semplicity!"
Nope. This has been proven to be not true. Try again.
Which does not mean there could not be an intelligent creator. It only means creationists assume too much without good evidence.
@@Ploskkky Self-created Universe is a logical fallacy
@@les2997 In your use of terminology you assume the very thing you want to prove, which is circular. I have never assumed a self-'created' universe and never in my life used such sloppy terminology.
I am not presupposing 'creation' or 'creating' at all. It is loaded terminology and therefore fallacious. Using terminology like that results by necessity in sloppy thinking and wrong, premature conclusions, hence creationism. To adopt a word like 'creation' in my assumptions I would need good evidence and there is none.
so god must be complex. if he is complex then he must come from simplicity too.
@@Ploskkky Where do you think the laws of nature which allow complexity to form came from?
Fractals, baby.
Seth is a total lunatick!! But ya' gotta love him!
"Eddies in the spacetime continuum!"
"Who's Eddy?"
I don't know but he's a turbulent guy.
I couldn’t hear him
Oh, Eddy. Poor guy,. I heard Flo left him.
Is smooth, round stone found downstrem in a river a complex object compared to a jagged stone found upstream?
How does universe compute? What does universe use for computation, quantum fields, or other?
Can space-time compute information from quantum fields into complexity of universe?
Thanks
Lee smolin got it right😊😊
Are gravity and expansion of space considered to be part of initial conditions for universe?
For complexity to occur/build up in nature a stable context for long long long timeframe is generally required.
Just the continuous repeatability of single simple thing will eventually become more and more complex
Complexity arises from simple rules.
So all the laws of nature (or programs) are being produced randomly all the time, in every point of space-time, in a process similar to natural selections that select nature-laws/programs. These programs/laws originate from the fuzzy and bubbly uncertainty principle or from randomness of quantum micro scales, that add information/energy/nature-law/programs, everywhere all the time. And we find ourselves in a one universe out of several parallel universes, that it's simple and randomly created laws have the capability/seed to create us complex beings in our complex reality right from its start. So the number universes in existence can be around the number of species alive today or all that ever lived or the number of all individual creatures ever lived in the entire multiverse. Like we find ourselves living in/through a specific body/individual in a specific biological species, and not other body and other creature, our universe is just randomly selected possible/mathematically consistent place we are in or part of. Is the only thing limiting the number of parallel universes is if they are mathematically consistent? Or any random string of code/program/nature-law can produce a universe? What is the selection principle of these constantly created universes? Just randomness and mathematical consistency? Can a universe with errors in its code/program that contains logic contradictions start to develop? Or is it aborted right from its start? I wonder if every moment in time is considered a new parallel universe? Is this view make scene? Is it possible to edit the code of a universe?
Does matter try to do different things in different ways as if having a mind of its own, a kind of diversity dynamic?
United we stand and divided we fall so lets truly be kind toward each other as and patient.
Bless you brother.
Clumps begat galaxies, which begat stars, which begat elements before they exploded, which begat solar systems and planets. The laws of physics would predict this much. That much, while still incredible, is understandable. Life, however, requires a number of conditions on a planet to be possible, and it has been determined that the odds of all of these conditions existing are not good. And making the jump from one cell to multi-cell with our abilities is another staggering leap.
Could complexity somehow increase because of expansion of universe, both cosmic inflation and big bang, going from simple beginning to complex present during expansion? Perhaps with increase in space leading to more room, more things could come together in more ways over longer periods of time.
What about the Second Law of Thermodynamics?
Might space-time have algorithm to compute complexity in universe?
"the universe is alive and we should all dance" thanks Dr Smolin, message received!!
What is relationship of quantum field mechanics to information in going from simplicity to complexity? Does quantum field mechanics provide the simple information that becomes complex in space-time of universe?
I agree with Lee. There is a link between Einstein and Darwin. While biological complexity is driven by survival of the fittest, non-biological complexity is driven by survival of the persistent. Ephemeral things soon break down, and their material used by longer lasting entities. Things that last a long time have the opportunity to change over deep time, and any complexification that emerges that increases the existence of things will be "selected".
🙏
Its good to know I'm not the only one who mulls over these major questions of existence, unfortunately I have a strong feeling that we will never fully understand these questions, if we do find the answers to existence will we lose interest. ?
Are computers naturally an algorithm for complexity, whether for universe or just a personal computer?
The religions saying that nobody creates god ! But god’s crests everything !
None of these talks answer the question. We do not know anything really about where complexity comes from, do we? Even if the complexity in the universe is a result of basically simple, random and blindly operating rules and processes (which is obviously questionable, and can not be proven), still, we need an explanation for why the rules and processes are such as they are. Without that understanding, what do we really know? I would say we have no understanding, we have only a description of what is happening without knowing why and wherefore.
trust me there's many things that we never knew since the beginning. before getting here to attempt to answer this question. the way the world works just does not allow us to know. just like we don't know all there is to know
Quantum probability should be your next research project
@@rexis188 a little too busy right now, but later maybe ... thax for your idea, anything specific about quantum prob you want me to look at for you?
It comes from "Butterfly effect.
Here here
I like this statement: "Some scientists now say that there is a reason. And the reason is fundamental. The universe at it's core is information." I stare at the computer screen. 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...>> commercial ( a simple Infomercial ! )
Nature has a weird engeneering department. In terms of energy, there are always some potentials left and nature begin to complicate things, by introducing intermediate solutions that are never perfect but cause more potential build ups. So new solutions arise from previous inovations and patches and so on. When all that chaos sattle down a bit and things begin to take coherent shapes, something entirelly different happens, a huge potential come from somewhere and simply flaten out everything, taking some completely new and unexpected form. This is how nature solve imperfections from previous order and stop infinite chains adaptations, since those were not required in a first place for grander sheme of things.
I like lee he us a deep thinker
Deja Vu
That's what I am thinking.
Truth cannot be defined by truth, simplicity by simplicity, one needs lies (which is near to truth) to define truth that is complexity is needed to define simplicity.that why we have theories lfor evolutions, big bangs, stead ystaye,,quantum mechanics, cosmology, cyclic universes, stimulation,etc and so on ----------, for closure to truth we needs understandings randomly.but ultimate truth reality always remains a puzzle and fuel us for knowing and enlightenment which has no.ends. change and continuity is always there which is beyond our grasp. Robert Lawrence kuhl's understanding, focusing and questioning sense.isnremarkable.
Did expansion of space after big bang start of universe bring complexity through cooling of temperature?
Genesis said that it was not good for ONE to be alone... I agree.
Lock and key. Both surfaces coated in an infinite glaze of probability and nuance driven by principle laws of a cosmological nature that is in constant state of phase.....
Why is Wolfram not mentioning Conway? He tells his story as if he's the one who discovered complexity created from simple rules.
What is Complexity without Simplicity and what is Closer without Distance?
@Htx457 True anyways.
The entire visible universe is made up of fewer than 100 elements. It's very existence is proof of complexity from simplicity.
Is there a way to work backward from complexity to simplicity?
The law of increasing entropy does what you ask.
Is entropy a factor in complexity, as there is greater disorder, diversity and complexity increase?
All due to gravitational order, manifesting as low entropy solar radiation, and the 200x higher entropy IR radiation to space = continual entropy deficit in the biosphere.
I'll tell you one thing, that right now, Complexity Theory is still in the process of being formalized. Right now, Leonard Susskind and Scott Aaronson propose that complexity acts almost identical to entropy, and it has an equilibrium state, known as the Maximal Complexity State.
The math behind the idea is the following...that the universe is performing a sort of computation, in which the states of atoms or whatever explore all possible configurations. Homogeneity (maximal entropy) is just one such configuration, among a finite, but incredibly large number of possible configurations, meaning the 2nd law of thermodynamics might not actually be true due to Boltzmann brain statistics. So the universe will explore entropy bounces, a near infinite number of them until the universe has explored all possible configurations, in which the universe hits maximal complexity. The maximal complexity, is basically the entropy of computation. It's dependent on the number of things, and the number of possible configurations those things can be in.
Just go and watch the 3 part lecture series "Leonard Susskind Complexity and Gravity" and follow the math all the way through. If Susskind's model is correct, then Wolfram's work is basically the formalization of complexity, and would technically be a new candidate theory of everything.
@@NightmareCourtPictures thank you very much
Gravity related to time could happen in quantum or inflation field, for quantum gravity? In which case inflation field develops both energy for cosmological constant expansion and time for gravity?
Basically yes. Everything is one.
Is it possible to see how a free will rule for nature would develop in physical reality?
Let us not exclude or treat people differently on the basis of race, color,national origin, ancestry, religion, marital status,gender,gender identity, sexual orientation,age, disability,or sex. Do not discriminate people on immigration status and personalities.We are all ONE together with God.We all came from the same place.
Complexity proceeds the simplicity. This is the Key. it sounds Strange at First. (Ring traps theory)
So you are saying the waves created the sea?
Fractal Sphere
What if the big bang was actually the big mix? And all we are is the settling of the swirl....?
Transition from simplicity to complexity happen between homogenous state after big bang start of universe and what?
Can complexity be compared to entropy?
Quantum fields are programming universe computer?
Is space-time computing complexity in universe?
Complexity from Simplicity, slient and emptyness create the simplicity.
The human brain is said to be the most complex thing in the universe. The question is, did the universe come first, or the brain? Was the universe created by a more complex brain from another universe, and then released? And now we're ever so slowly, seeing the evolution of our primitive brains, reaching for, and becoming like, that ultimate God-like brain that created us? 🌌💫🧠
@ Edward Hiett Who says that the human brain is the most complex thing in the universe? For sure, it isn't somebody with much of a brain! You have no idea of what else might exist in any of the 100 billion or so galaxies that are out there, nor will we ever have, so how did you arrive at the conclusion that the human brain is "the most complex thing in the universe"!?
@@MrDorbel What Stefan said. It's arguably the most complex thing we know of today, at this moment in time. And those words have been said by many, but most notably Michio Kaku. But I completely agree with you, there could be, in fact I'd say it's likely, that there are other more intelligent human-like beings out there in the universe, that are more advanced, more intelligent than us. We haven't found them yet, but maybe they already know of us, maybe we've been visited, maybe they even live among us! Again, I'm just speaking about what we know of right now, publicly, in general. The God, or aliens that could've potentially created us, could easily show up tomorrow and change the narrative.
@@edhiett The stature of the person making the claim has no bearing on the truth of it. I also don't see the use of it.
There may well be more intelligent beings than humans out in the cosmos, probably are, but the idea that they may have "created" us is fantasy, until as you say, they show up! Ditto God.
It's not the most complex thing there is in the Universe, it's what we think is the most complex thing.
The Universe was created by a former Universe and that one was created by the one before, and so on and so on.
If gravity can pull physical reality into future, then evolution / natural selection through time might bring complexity in universe?
Simple equations made complex by gravity and cosmological constant expansion?
But they couldn’t explained how ?
Of course not, otherwise it wouldn't still be a mystery. It is a journey and an interesting one, if you want and answer, all be it an idiotic one, go to church.
I watched with great interest. Thanks for the hard to get interviews from the cutting edge scientists. The random act of creation of simplicity which evolved into complexity is too naive to believe. For example, let us take our Solar System. We have visited all the nine planets and technically concluded that life may be possible in a couple of satellites of Jupiter and Saturn. There is a distinct possibility that almost all of the planets have evolved around the same time, give or take a couple of million years. Why there should be the right temperature and oxygen level on Earth and the gravitational and magnetic field to hold the atmosphere, for the species to evolve,where as our Moon, which is at a striking distance, has not been favored to replicate Earth. If Quantum Computing is in Works, it should be working in Moon also, leave alone the other planets. The primordial soup, from which the protozoas formed which finally evolved as Homo Sapiens, as per Darwin, did not work out in our neighborhood planets. The primordial soup itself seems to be missing. Despite the singular act of abiogenesis, which is the fundamental paving block for the formation of intelligent life on Earth, the scientific community as a whole denounce the Hand of God in Creation. In the Vedic Culture of Hindu Religion, it is clearly explained that God is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, endless and beginning less. In Hindu Scriptures God is described as timeless. Time is relative and ceases to exist in the Absolute. www.learnreligions.com/the-concept-of-time-1770059. The Big Bang happened with a sound, which is a roar and the name of the roar is Rudra, another name of Shiva. Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev explains about the primorial roar Rudra. th-cam.com/video/djHzUmCr2Lc/w-d-xo.html. The primordial sound is the "Aum". In the higher realms of Philosophy, science cannot explain many miracles, that is happening all around us, everyday. The debate between James Tour and Lee Cronin, is a pointer to existence of God.th-cam.com/video/3DHvNRK452c/w-d-xo.html. Though Dr. Tour is ridiculed by many , he has many valid points, which cannot be countered by Science with its current knowledge. The Grand Design, which is the fundamental law of the Universe can only be understood by strict religious practices.
When, or if, scientists ever recreate life, then, and only then, they will have proof beyond reasonable doubt that life created itself by sheer dumb luck and didn't need and intelligent designer... How do you like this kind of scientific logic? 😉
@@tomashull9805 That is what Dr Lee Cronin says in his interaction with Dr. James Tour. After the considerable passage of time after Big Bang, the initial conditions have since changed, leading to abiogenesis. If a cell is created artificially, then the need for Divine intervention can be waived off. By creating a primordial soup of chemicals, Dr. Lee Cronin is on the verge of creation of Life. This is countered by Dr. Tour who goes over volumes of scientific data and concludes that creation of artificial life by chance,luck or random selection is not possible. Please see the video for your own evaluation of the issue.
@@p.m.rangarajan1055 I was being sarcastic... If intelligent scientists re-create life, how could this mean that random processes had created life in the primordial soup if intelligence is required to RECREATE IT? Tour doesn't talk about it much, but for the "simplest" living cell to be created several chicken and egg paradoxes need to be resolved: DNA requires proteins to be made but proteins can't be made without DNA. None of the process in the cell will go on unless it's components are enveloped by the cell membrane... But cell membrane can't be made without DNA and proteins...and ATP and RNA... and the list goes on... But I know that even intelligent scientists will not be able recreate life because they can't even put humpty dumpty back together again... Whoever believes that sheer dumb luck could have done a better job than intelligent scientists, needs a special attention of mental health specialists... Not a just shrink for a $100 pop in. He needs a group of experts 24/7 constant observation... like the elephant man... People like that are so blind they are not worth a minute of my time... Can you imagine spending your entire life defending your beliefs by dismissing not only evidence, but logic? I know one Darwinist who has spent most of his life defending his beliefs of evolution by the belief that human genome is 90 % junk DNA... Now, even his fellow Darwinists accept that most of human genome has function... He refused to accept the evidence and keeps insisting the evidence is wrong... Can you imagine spending the rest of your life refusing to accept the evidence because it does fit your beliefs? It's sad...
This is proof: th-cam.com/video/4pS8foBAa-c/w-d-xo.html
All due to gravitational order, manifesting as low entropy solar radiation, and the 200x higher entropy IR radiation to space = continual entropy deficit in the biosphere.
Might laws of nature come from simple rules?
Our universe began with a “single thing”, and it finds its way to form our universe. Any question?
@S Gloobal The single thing does not have a name. God did not give it a name. so, we can call it any name we want. That is what scientists and philosopher trying to do, to give it a fancy name and gain benefits from it.
@S Gloobal it is a substance... energy per se.
@S Gloobal Yes.
@S Gloval so were you questioning him to confirm your own presumption
Psalm 33:6
The reason for complexity from simplicity is that everything has a level of consciousness or devine conscious energy in it. Mind, "Monad", God, Creator. Principle and Attribute at the same time the absence of Principal and Attribute. Which kinda sounds like schrodinger's cat now that I wrote it but that was not my intent. And I guess when the observer observes depending on the observers perceptions it appears with the amount of principle and attribute and the absence thereof that is in direct correlation or relation to that of the observer.
@ Your post doesn't sound like Schrodinger's Cat, it sounds like mumbo jumbo and word salad. Have you been reading Deepak Chopra?
@@MrDorbel sorry didn't mean to offend as the thought passed through my head it reminded me of schrodinger's cat my mistake. But as I reread what I wrote I still see it as such. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the premise. And no I haven't read Depok chapura.
@@johnzientek735 I wasn't offended in any sense, just unable to understand what "everything has a level of consciousness or devine conscious energy in it" actually means. When did you observe this and how did you measure it?
@@MrDorbel all I can say is that it's just the way I see it and it makes far more sense to me than the standard model of physics. Everything is energy "devine conscious energy" , Prana, Chi, magneto-dielectricity, force in motion whatever you want to call it. 👍
@@johnzientek735 Well as it appears to be something that can't be observed or measured or even described, you can call it what you like!
Complexity in universe from expansion of space and cooling temperature?
Thx. Perhaps is Interprition of our own that : Fro Somethig Simple , to make Something Complex. An Example :
Vojeger 1 is in Interstellar riegion now. As the Scientist PERDICT there is Nothing There, they shot down the Camera to save energy for something Morere Important!!!?
Now , How can the Scientists be sure about it!!!? How can you know the Phenomen without Experimenting with his Boundary, in order to Understand It. 🍻
Why would quantum information with more complexity have greater influence in universe?
8:09 the universe is computing
Question? Does it know that it is computing?
Delicious 😋
Maybe free will brings about purpose in nature?
Universe itself is a giant computer? Interesting. The computation and implementation of the lowest level information creates reality.
rubiks6 it seems like a god hypothesis. Something that can be made up, but hard to disprove. Because it cannot be disproven, doesn’t mean it is real. For I, don’t know as the problem is far greater than my mental constraints.
Has it ever been thought that we created ourselves. With AI and human nature to survive wouldn't it be possible for us in a billion years when the universe is dying out we look to create our own destiny.
Quantum mechanics doesn’t generate “random rules”. Those rules come from more specific, lower origin rules. Will we ever understand how all of this works on the lowest level? Likely not.
But, as it works, quantum mechanics isn’t illogical. We do know that if something is allowed by physics, it will occur, somewhere. Complexity leads to greater complexity at ever increasing rates. That’s easy to understand as more complex objects have more ways to interact because their geometry is more complex. That just leads to more complexity.
Who knows maybe all not only originated from one but all is one.
@@sven888 can you explain that in more depth?
It's very tricky because the moment you give examples you fragment the whole and exclude people who have a different view. In my humble opinion the big bang is the initial singularity and the purpose of the initial singularity is companionship aka love. But as a Catholic I would simply say the purpose of God/Jesus/Life is Love. Just a personal expression. Your opinion is as good as mine. Thank you and wishing you a good day every day.
Information cannot come from randomness. Information is synonymous to order, while randomness is synonymous to anarchy. It doesn't matter how we swing it around, order is antónimos to anarchy.
There is no randomness in macroscopic universe.
@@almightybunny3320 Randomness projected from the microscopic universe onto macroscopic universe still cannot be a cause for information and order, if it is a true randomness of course! Quasi randomness is a different matter.
Does anyone else think that another trend (likely because of intelligent life) is from randomness to order over time?
Not sure what you are talking about... AI?
@@noahway13 Well, I guess I am not sure about what I am talking about either. But in a way, when humans become involved with nature, in a sense, we make things simpler because they are more ordered given our explanations that results in new knowledge. It is almost like the opposite of entropy. Order increases and there is a slowing of disorder. In a sense, we will have AI when we understand human creativity. I also think that consciousness is somehow related to virtual reality renderings provided by our own minds. The human mind does have a purpose. That purpose is to understand the world. The mind is constantly evolving through the adjustments of constraint satisfaction and other forms of error correction. It seems to me that the world, because of humans, is moving toward a higher level of intelligence. We underestimate the importance of the human mind. The more we study the world the more we realize that we consistently underestimate it's multiplicity and our ability to make sense of it. Out of chaos we create order.
@@patmoran5339 Who defines order? Let a park go unattended, and weeds and trees will take over. But is nature considered chaos? A beautiful natural forest is order or disorder?
@@noahway13 Humans define order. Nature is not nice. A beautiful natural forest may not be disorder, but it will not support a human being without extensive knowledge about what is poisonous and what is not and so forth. A common misconception about the biosphere is that it is a support system for human beings. It is not. We cannot live in earth's biosphere without extensive knowledge about what things are edible and how catch such animals or harvest the leaves or fruits of vegetable matter. Clothes are a must in every earth environment. Other animals are adapted to a certain environment. The human animal creates better environments to support themselves. I think life itself is fundamental and that human minds specifically are fundamental. Barring some astrophysical accident like a sudden solar flare, earth might have even human life for a time long enough for us to spread out into space. Unless we learn some contrary information, I believe that the human mind is the most important phenomenon in the universe that is known at this time. I think we had better take responsibility for what might be possible and work for constant progress toward increased knowledge about the universe.
I have a hard time trying to imagine that what we have now wasn't the intended outcome. The sky doesn't look like some random outcome. It looks like it's suppose to be a sky, and so on for everything else (water, rocks, etc...). Water seems to have a planned purpose, air seems to be intended to be used as air. Gravity seems to have been set in place for a reason. LOL how can we randomly end up with all of these seemingly intended elements out of randomness? I have yet to hear a compelling argument, scientists seem to just push numbers around and decide nothing matters... But that's outside my everyday experience, I have to force myself out of my normal experience to "believe" in the randomness position.
HumAi Club because I see it, it must be meant for me to see. Primitive. Limited.
@@haroldfloyd5518 maybe so but anything outside experience is belief. Once you start believing....
One more thing I should add is I am not saying randomness position is "false" - I have no idea what the truth is. I started by saying it's difficult for me to imagine since it's outside my experience. That's no different than any other religion.
I'm amazed that nobody really gets into the very (multiple) definitions of so-called randomness? What is fundamentally speaking "randomness"? One can find orders out of a seemingly chaotic background of some sort and call all those "discovered" patterns as order. On the other hand, one can find chaos in every piece and moment of what we like to call order (e.g. two exact same swiss watch, or two exact HDD or CPU made in a super sophisticated factory would not fundamentally be identical). So in reality, order is chaos and chaos can be interpreted as order. In other words, both Order and Chaos are nothing but anthropocentric concepts that have absolutely nothing to do with the actual ultimate reality what should be by definition ineffable to begin with.
Many scientists and philosophers tend to use the term randomness here and there, without really deconstructing the term itself to realize that all of such seemingly sophisticated ideas (including the religious creation ideas) are fundamentally speaking, fully anthropocentric and inherently limited in scope. I guess what I'm trying to say is that, at the end of the day it all leads to a funny language a problem. And by language I mean any sort of language be it Persian language, Greek, English por Mathematics.
@@konnektlive Thank you so much for sharing your position. Compared to many of the other views, yours seems much "Closer To Truth" :-)
My God (pun intended), the level of orderliness in that initial condition given Wilczek's perspective . . . sheesh. Yeah, it's either God or an infinite multiverse. Yikes.
I think rubiks6 is trying to change the content of one of his comments and followups from others regarding Francis Crick. When he is asked questions he doesn't like he tries to change the subject. Just my idea. I could be mistaken. Maybe he could correct if I am indeed mistaken.
All universe need are quants of energy and that incredible property of gravity working at entire universe at once. This could be the reason why universe is so fine tuned, energy must always balance out perfetly because gravity is present everywhere. And we know gravity is much more than universal attractive force, it makes energy manifest time related phenomena, can`t always travel over shortest path of least resistance because space is not homogenius.
Imagine energy could discharge directly and over flat geometry, everything in existence would just flawh for a moment and that would be it, no more energy available and 0 complexity. What is gravity than, it`s complicated.
- and simplicity from complexity.
When I see a grown man wearing a ponytail I somehow adjust my expectation about his IQ.
Seth is trying to cover his baldness and be cool at the same time... His IQ is high but not high enough to come to the righ conclusion that complexity is to complex to come about by sheer dumb luck...lol
better 'n tats
"When I see a grown man wearing a ponytail I somehow adjust my expectation about his IQ."
Don't be ashamed. Prejudice is a very common affliction.
@@Ploskkky Ah well you see it's not prejudice. It's nothing to do with prejudging. It's more to do with the fact that in my long life all such ridiculous looking things belonged to idiots. 😂. So you see its an evidence based observation.
@@bluegtturbo Seth is not a total idiot... He was one of the first of quantum mechanics experts and IT who realized photosynthesis uses quantum processes... Unfortunately, he has no choice but to believe mindless processes were able to evolve quantum photosynthesis processes selecting photons in superposition... lol
Is the universe really more complex? Instead of a dense plasma permeating space, we have vast cosmic emptiness, with a few scattered clumps of matter (galaxies) that are barely noticeable against the incredible spaces of nothingness. I guess if you zoom in to smaller and smaller scales of infinitesimal, almost ethereal tininess, you would find a little baby clump of pseudo-order that thinks it can figure out the universe. But this particle called Earth is so small and blinks in and out of existence so fast, that it can hardly be said to have existed at all.
It is not clear which equation bridges the gap between the complex and the simple. In fact, a simple Newton equation was enough to allow humanity to begin to manage the world of matter as never before. The complex can stop being complex with a simple equation. The real dilemma concerns the degree to which we administer the Truth.
Complexity, I don't believe, "comes about". Consider a seed - to the eye, it looks quite "simple". And yet, in a few short weeks or months, it takes on the appearance of "complexity". We mistake simple extrapolation or development for complexity. I have yet to hear a coherent definition for that word: "complexity". I will stay with "development" in the mean time. The diverse laws of nature simply work on the existing simple material, and obviously, it then seems that a lot is going on. That is true - we simply have a lot of stuff going on - each event occurring close to other events. Just a lot of simple things going on together, in a close space. It's all very "simple" - just a lot of simplicity...
A seed is a very good example of a complexity of continuance packed in a tiny physical size..
p=np
P≠NP
Everything comes from simplicity, duh.
Nature does not have deadlines. Therefore it does not have resource constraints as such. Nature does not design, it explores and only ends up producing what that makes sense in terms of survival in the environment. Nature does not have very structured input resource inventories and warehouses to pull parts from. It operates in a haphazard factory of natural environments. It is not pressured by share holders to produce value. Nature is able to make any number of mistakes. So....if the same conditions and constraints are made available to humans, we could design very complex and not for specific use things. And with industrial age I think we have surpassed the complexity of nature in some input to value ratio sense. Modern Mobile phone.
I am shocked and dismayed by the idea that the laws, rules, programs and even mathematics live somewhere separate from the parts they control. Even QFT is remarkably anthropic. Some other approach should be developed.
Quantum computers are based on assumption of false perspective
It's all great ,but can you change the intro music ?