Looks like directors nowadays don't know anymore how to use music to tell an emotional story. The narration is not necessary, the music should tell the story. Sadly, in many movies and TV shows now, music has become meaningless elevator music.
A good example of Star Wars being creative with its music: In Empire Strikes Back when Han Solo gets frozen by carbonite, you don't have dark or depressing music. Instead you have a love theme playing, suddenly making the scene shift from "Han getting frozen" to "Han and Leia being separated. "
Another cool Star Wars tidbit: The Imperial March, which everyone remembers as Vader's theme, didn't actually appear until The Empire Strikes Back! Talk about a great composer topping himself.
Exactly. Williams wrote the score like the film was an opera. Characters had their own themes, moments through the films can be recognized entirely by just the music playing during them. If I played Clash of Lightsabers for anyone they'd recognize it was from Luke's fight with Vader.
I subscribed 7 months ago. Just as I'm starting my work shift today, I get the notification for this upload. LONGEST DAY EVAR. Thanks for the film love, Tony!
"By August 2016, Mark Mothersbaugh was hired to score the film.[2][3] Mothersbaugh was influenced by a video essay from the TH-cam channel Every Frame a Painting, which criticized the scores from previous Marvel Cinematic Universe films for their lack of memorability, to make the score for Thor: Ragnarok as distinctive as possible.[4]" - Music Director for Thor Ragnarok
@@pcyr9999 Thanks for posting the source! It looks like this video singlehandedly changed Marvel's blandness and gave us this: th-cam.com/video/FOabQZHT4qY/w-d-xo.html
I was literally coming here to say it felt like they fixed this with Ragnarok & Infinity War/Endgame. Some of my favourite cinematic music in those films.
They play an orchestral version in the opening credits and iirc if you watch the end credits long enough they play the version by The Ramones eventually?
I can sing Homecomings Main theme of the top of my Head. No, not the Orchestral version of the 60s theme. I mean the Main theme that plays throughout the Movie ex: Rubble scene
Also if any of you start a fucking Marvel vs. DC thing in the comments, I'll just ban you. In our research, we found DC to be just as musically awkward as Marvel, just in a different way. This is an industry-wide problem.
12:40 fucking STOLE the show. I can tell his family was embarrassed but he was the GOAT. Great video overall. Never considered so many things that this brought to attention. I still feel like there's very little I can confidently recite but there are 100% now a few songs that I can make a sloppy attempt at.
it's fake. the emotional scene is not shown at the end of the first example, but would have had no narrations in either moment (when the boy spots cap). this channel intentionally edited it out to prove their point. the narration serves as key exposition for bucky if you never saw First Avenger.
I disagree. I think it provides a focused bolstering of cap's contextual importance in his relationship with the everyday Joe in the movie's universe; reminded of his living legend status, as evidenced by the kind of language used, it's emotional on more than one level than if there were to be just the comparatively nebulous emotional sound of the score. The score alone makes it emotionally claustrophobic, which would make sense if he were just remembering the horrors of war. The tone of the score clearly belies this; emotional but heroic. If it faded up in volume over the, doing this gradually, then maybe it could work. But it kind of does that anyway in the original edit once he sees the kid.
I think rather than being powerful just like that, it shows that the scene has more potential without the narration. But the score would need to be changed a bit in tone and volume if it actually stood alone.
aquamus this channel edited out the boy seeing cap the first time they roll clip because the narrating STOPS during that moment. they intentionally misguided the viewers to falsely establish their point.
There's a risk though that audiences come to depend on the score too much to tell them how to feel at any given moment if it's placed above sound or dialogue. It's like how comedies on TV use a laughter track to remind you to laugh at all the jokes. Some of the most exciting scenes in cinema can be done without any resort to music, like the original mission impossible wires scene. Using music to get an audience pumped or psyched or sad is the most quick and basic way there is really I feel. The score in the phantom meance is amazing but I'd still rather watch Captain America the Winter Solider because really music can't compensate for more important things like writing and directing.
I think it sounded a bit weird. Like those middle notes that rise right before the kid is shown indicate that a narrator or something should probably be there.
I enjoy the narration because it's Gary Sinise, and that's such a Sinise (support the troops) thing to do that it grounds Cap firmly in this universe for me.
I’m glad Danny Elfman was in this, but they failed to mention his score to the 2002 Spider-Man movie! That music is extremely effective in playing the emotion and energy of the picture. Yet, it could also stand alone as an incredible piece of art! Love you Danny! 🖤
wrenthereaper Dude, with the number of subscribers you have you could be making a LOT of money. Why don't you ever make videos? That's so interesting to see!
Isiskos I"m full time at Corridor and Sam and Niko pumping out content every day! My personal channel is now my side project. Check it out and I hope to see you in the comments there!
Please everyone, watch Dan Golding's response video to ours: th-cam.com/video/UcXsH88XlKM/w-d-xo.html He disagrees with us, lays out why, and is so on the money about so many things.
It's not complicated though. No one remembers Marvel music because *there is no one Marvel theme.* Those other examples provided, those were examples of people singing the main themes of the franchises you asked for. There is no Main Theme for Marvel. People primarily remember Main Themes.
question. what software did you use to isolate the sound and dialogue??? it would be super helpful for me. thank you! also great video! raises many great questions
It's ironic finding this video post End Game, years after this video was released. It's almost like Marvel realised they needed to get their act together with music and now that Avengers theme gets everyone hyped
Oh my goodness!!! Marvel should pay this man millions, Marvel earned a lot by improving its theme music in the last 3 years. A very well researched video. Hats off!!
exactly, they know this video exist and didn't pay him ;( www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/thor-ragnarok-composer-acknowledges-marvel-scores-sound-same-1054503/
The Avengers had an iconic theme since 2012 and Captain America, Winter Soilder and Ant-Man had amazing scores as well. What are you guys talking about?
Coming back to this video after watching Endgame. For all the people saying he was creating a false narrative, go back and watch the trailers for Age of Ultron and the original Avengers. Marvel only started doing their signature "Da daaaa da daaaa" in Infinity War and onwards. I think someone at Marvel saw this :D
It's so annoying everyone is jumping on a hate train because nobody can keep track of their history. He was right in 2016. And they greatly improved, maybe even because of this video. But people just know it's memorable now and retroactively think that's how it always been.
@@destrogamer4521 That makes sense. I remember there were a number of scenes in Thor 3 that specifically linger on just the music to have it inspire the emotion in the scene. This is maybe best shown when Hulk turns back into Banner. It could've been done as horror or even comedy, but the music is so pained and tragic even before any action happens that it sets up the welling of emotions inside "The Monster" before we see him break down as Thor looks on, horrified.
@@destrogamer4521 if Taika Waititi really did watch this video, then he made right decision by using Led Zeppelin's "Immigrant Song" for Thor Ragnarok.
The Marvel song that will always stick in my head is the Winter Solder's Theme. Something about the hard pounding sound along with the high pitched note that drags on, building tension every time he enters a scene. But if someone asked me to repeat it, I couldn't without just sounding weird.
Holy shit when you changed the music for the Thor scene it totally changed the atmosphere omg. I've never thought music would make such a difference. The original music would have been good for a comedy-ish movie, but to my knowledge, Thor is more focused on action and fighting and stuff, so your version would have much better suited the scene. Good Job!
The scene was meant to be a comic beat though- they're knocking at the window and yell 'FOUND YOU!' at Thor, having heroic music underneath that moment would make the sequence tonally jarring as the visuals and the dialogue are trying to sell a joke while the music is trying to sell the scene as an epic reunion.
Wow, I had no idea that temp music was now being abused like that! What's the point of hiring a creative professional only to get them to pretty much copy someone else's work?!
As a composer, I can't remember one single score from any Marvel film in the past 8 years off the top of my head. However, while it takes me a moment to find it in my head, the original scores for the Tobey Maguire Spider-Man films had some interesting, highly fitting, and memorable scores. The music within that film seemed to fit the magical feel of Spider-Man swinging through the skies and around the massive buildings of New York and I love it. Something I feel most Marvel films have lacked since then. And I believe those scores were by Danny Elfman as well.
Iron Man - Driving with the Top Down Thor - Sons of Odin Thor - Thor Kills the Destroyer Captain America - Captain America March Avengers - The Avengers Avengers - Helicarrier Avengers - A Promise Iron Man 3 - Iron Man 3 Captain America: TWS - Taking a Stand Captain America: TWS - The Winter Soldier Captain America TWS - End of the Line Guardians of the Galaxy - To the Stars Guardians of the Galaxy - Black Tears Ant Man - Main Theme Ant Man - Tales to Astonish Civil War - Cap's Promise
Same. I don't have to Google a list or anything. Sandman's theme from three is a piece I hum every so often it's stuck with me so well. Thinking to DC, Basically all of BvS's score. I'll count MoS in there since the iterations on the themes went through.
That’s because Avengers hasn’t been around for a while like Harry Potter or Star Wars at that point. Now it’s been over a decade since the avengers movies started, and people remember the music, they’ve had time to sit with it
Tony Zhou, thank you this and your other vids. Very interesting and highly intelligent. There are a couple other factors at play with action movie scores which makes them all sound alike. Not only are composers asked to mimic the temp, composers are also expected to create great sounding computer/sampler generated mock-ups & demos to be cut into the edit for the filmmakers and producers to watch. A composer will readily be fired from a job if the mock-ups don't sound convincing. The sounds that tend to be the most convincing are percussion, long sustains, short attacks like string pizzicato and synths- your basic recipe of a Marvel score. Also, many modern filmmakers shy away from strong musical themes. They seem to feel it's cheating or manipulative to have a memorable theme developing along with the narrative. Yet what people remember is strong musical theme - for example, the ones you mention at the beginning of the video. In avoiding themes composers are stuck with what had previously been filler material. Music then is just something that keeps a scene moving. It's the musical equivalent of "shoe-leather". To avoid themes composer often resort to simply arpeggiating chords and adding sustains and percussion. What should be a rich and varied palette has been reduced to the bare minimum elements. Thanks again for your work. Cheers.
Marco Beltrami had a great quote about mockups that we included in an earlier version of the video, but we ultimately decided to ditch that point, because... well, we couldn't "prove" what he said unless we had access to some of those demos. And while I managed to get my hands on a few Marvel demos, it wasn't enough for us to really get a slam dunk. I mean, obviously I agree with your point. But agreeing with it, and "proving" it via footage are two very different things.
Looks like I gotta make a name for myself making indie films before hiring a badass motherfucker like Yoko Kanno to compose music for any film I wanna make.
In my experience the 'I hate nondiagetic music' attitude is associated with indie or artistic filmmaking so it's interesting to see it influence these movies as they try to gain some degree of cultural seriousness.
fair enough, TZ. One quick aside - Until relatively recently composers demoed their music on live, solo piano (as opposed to mock ups). Sometimes the composer would sing a line on top of what they were playing. The first time the composer, director and everybody else heard anything like the actual score was at the recording session. All those great themes/scores of John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, Elmer Bernstein, etc. were auditioned in a room with a piano and a moviola. Kind of amazing. Thank you again for these great vids. Cheers.
This video really makes me appreciate the soundtrack for Into the Spiderverse, because the score was made to fit with the movie. What's up Danger is still really incredible, not just on its own, but in how well it meshes with the tone and emotions of the scene.
This speaks volumes about how I feel about Marvel movies. While I have enjoyed nearly every Marvel movie, they have all seemed formulaic, bland, and predictable. This resonates down to how they score films. Always playing it safe, making good but not original great films.
The interesting part is that the music he replaced it with was from the Thor soundtrack itself! Which stands to reason that the problem isn't with the music - its how the music is used.
Every marvel movie has a good memorable theme. The problem is that the themes aren't re-used in other movies. Thor has a different theme in every movie, Iron Man has a different theme in every movie.... Not being able to remember the music is because the producers aren't letting the theme become iconic because they keep ordering their composers to replace it!
Yes Tony's film insight is very insightful; however, TH-cam has tons of channels with better production value. I still love Every Frame A Painting, but it has nowhere near the "best" production value.
S&S Pictures Well what do you watch then? I think Crash Course, Veritasium, Vsauce 3, Kurzgesagt, Wisecrack and maybe School of Life are on similar levels...
I would agree before but not after Infinity War and Endgame. They finally had real stakes and the finally also have big prices to pay to get what they want.
@@mathiyanz Literally all the Disney movies are formulaic but whatever. Same humor, plot structure, etc. Only endgame did anything different and that was only because RDJ wanted out.
Tony, great point, but it is made even better by the counterpoint - Guardians of the Galaxy. They uses 70's pop/rock songs so well in their soundtrack, that it became part of the love of the movie. I still listen to "Awesome Mix, Volume 1" playlist that I made. Those songs DID anchor emotional moments, they WERE RISKS that the director took, and it PAID OFF because this was the Marvel movie that I most identify with. I kept waiting for you to bring this up as the exception that proved the rule. Can't wait for "Awesome Mix, Volume 2" - which is PART OF THE PLOT.
That's not an original score. Using famous needle drops from the 70s (however well used they are in the film, and they are VERY well used) is very different from crafting an original score like Star Wars. I'm sure you can sing Awesome Mix Volume 1 but how's your ability with the Guardians of the Galaxy main theme (as heard in the Kyln Escape and at the end of the film)?
Maybe that was James Gunn's hack to get around the problem? I kept waiting for your interview subjects to break out with "If you like Pina Coladas...." or "Moonage Daydream ooohhhh yeahhhhhh".
True but the MCU should have an iconic song for each film to differentiate it from just a typical superhero film. I do like the avengers theme song tho
What kind of "apology" was that? "We're so sorry that people think we did something wrong. We have complete respect for the guy whose music we ripped off."
James Bond's music wasn't written by John Williams but your point is valid. You get john williams and you aren't telling him what to do, he will do whatever the hell he likes. David Arnold was the composer for James Bond from Tomorrow Never Dies to Quantum of Solace and i read somewhere that when a director tells him "I don't want the music to be noticed" he will just reply with "Do you notice the music in E.T.?" "yes" "And what's wrong with E.T.?" I get the sense he bullies directors into letting him do what he thinks is best aha
I wish more movie creators would think about this! Pretty much every “iconic” movie/tv show in the last 70 years that have stayed in the public consciousness (ie, not the ones that win oscars but then disappear) have a well chosen score and/or a memorable “theme” tune!!
One of the last massive blockbusters I can think of with really memorable, original music was Lord of the Rings. Even 20 years later, I can still hear in my head the ominous Balrog chanting, the triumphant Rohirrim horns, or the cheerful Shire flute. I can't sing or hum any of it because it was so complex... but the memory is vividly engraved in my brain.
For my money, Howard Shore is the greatest film composer of all time. LOTR's score is nearly 10 hours long and when I want to hear, say, "For Frodo" at the end of Return of the King, I listen to the entire score from the beginning to get there (I may repeat a few of my favorites along the way, though). Themes build, then interweave with others, to develop the grand masterpiece. No piece can be truly appreciated on its own. And oh so memorable.
@Nicolas Nick Yep. And I bought the extended score as soon as the chills died down after having finished the movie ("What Are You Going To Do When You're Not Saving The World?") for the first time.
@Nicolas Nick Well great. Now it's stuck in my head and I have to go listen to it with the subs up and the buttkicker on (Zimmer Drums). Thanks a lot. ;)
It's so brilliant. I attempted to learn some of the themes on piano just from listening, and that was when I realized that learning music just by ear is pretty hard if it isn't a pop song lol. And listening to somebody who's an expert on these things analysing the whole soundtrack is such a revelation. It really, substantially elevated the movies, like a good soundtrack should.
Dear, @Every Frame a Painting, I just learned that THIS very video influenced the makers of "Thor 3 - Ragnarok" to compose and create the original and weird music for the Grandmaster (Jeff Goldblum). Can't describe how happy I am, that you actually made the movie world a better place. Thank you!
Actually the composer of Thor 3 REUSED parts of previous Thor themes to create a sense of continuity. Something that Marvel movies dont do is reuse their themes hence why we often dont remember the theme songs. What he did actually contradicts Tony's video.
to be honest... the cut in this video is misleading. If you watch, the music is played under the narration, sure. but that dialogue is necessary exposition for the film to stand on its own for people that may not have seen First Avenger. Now, if you watch... the EMOTIONAL part of the scene is when the boy sees captain America and cap responds. in this video that ending is cut out during the "bad" example and re-inserted during the "good" example. it is a terribly misleading editing tactic on this channel's part. in the real film, the emotional punch of the ending of the scene STILL has no narration, and therefore the directors do have a proper sense of when and when not to "undermine" scores. just look at infinity war and how there is no score during the most emotional part of the film to add weight/suspense.
the way they edited that example in this video reminds me of the SNL Donald Glover jurassic park lawyer sketch! "play the clip! .....okayokayokaystopstopstop!" lol
I am using this video for my school project about how music is differently used nowadays compared to the old days of Movies. I think this video was wonderfully made and well put. especially the twist at the end 11:30 where you made a really great point about marvels music playing it safe. great Job. and thank you.
What I think is great about this channel is that it really has an impact on the way people look at film. I live in Germany and since this video has been released, every single film podcast I listen to has talked about modern film music, based on your video! You change the people think about film. They now think about it more as an art than before! And this just awesome, to open people's eyes! Thank you!
No, don't this video is bullshit. He says the theme from Star Wars, Harry, Potter and James Bond are memorable but those are the main themes. Then he complains about the scores from the Marvel movies but ignores their themes. Whatever agenda this guy has he's not accurate.
That's not true at all. It's just that you've heard the Superman march all your life and you don't care enough about music to listen to them outside of their movies. The Iron Man score is great, very fitting with the character. Thor's entire score is among the best of the MCU. Danny Elfman created a very memorable motif for the Avengers.
Let's hear you hum those Marvel themes then. Don't go back to check to make sure what it is. If you're right and this video is bogus you should be able to hum it right off the top of your head. Just right now in your seat record yourself humming it and get back to us with it.
Tony, I refer back to your videos all of the time. These video are so inspiring and have propelled me into thinking of making video essays of my own. The editing in these videos is just impeccable, so you have my praise. Thank you for making content like this.
I'd have started singing Hooked on a Feeling, even though it doesn't really count. guardians is the one time Marvel has done something ballsy with their music. excellent video as always Tony.
@@funlesbian Yeah, it was all music you could here on any classic rock station. But to people who don't listen to it, which to be fair is a lot of people, it's probably great to hear it for the first time.
Not really ballsy. Just a surefire way to get people to wake up from their naps. Not creative at all. They don’t have anything unique to their movies because they aren’t made by directors or artists. They’re made by studios looking to check boxes so they can get a good enough aggregate score on Rotten Tomatoes.
Always on point man! I'm huge soundtrack fan, and I feel the same way. Marvel doesn't take chances with its scores, while soundtracks make 1/4 of a movie. (The exeption for me is Alan Silvestri's Avengers theme). Keep the videos coming man! You just became my favourite movie channel! What are your favourite soundtracks guys? Would love to hear them!
My favourite soundtracks (albums) in non-specific order: 1. Lord of the Rings Trilogy 2. How to Train your Dragon 1&2 3. Kung Fu Panda 4. Batman Trilogy 5. Incredibles 6. Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 1&2 7. Inception 8. Game of Thrones 9. Transformers Movies 10. Finding Nemo 11. American Beauty 12. Madagascar 13. Good, Bad and the Ugly 14. Lion King 15. Sherlock Holmes (Series + movies) 16. Amelie I'm sure I missed a lot of them but these are the first ones to pop in to my head. Let me know your favourites :D
1. Hoffnung Am Ende Der Welt - Der Untergang 2. One Summer's Day - Spirited Away 3. Haiku - Finding Nemo 4. Define Dancing - Wall-E 5. Why so serious - The Dark Knight 6. Overture - Back To the Future 7. Sulley and Mike - Monsters Inc. 8. Moves Like an Ape, Looks Like a Man - Tarzan 9. Terminator 2 theme - Terminator 10. Married Life - Up As a whole album I would suggest The Last of Us.
It's just like triple a games Edit: I didn't really mean with the music, but more with how developers are making safe choices so that their games will sell rather than trying anything unique or inventive. But I guess the comment still stands with game music to an extent.
Alan Silvestri composed both Captain America: The First Avenger and The Avengers. I fell completely in love with Captain America's theme. It's rousing, old-fashioned, dignified, and yet not cheesy. It was kind of a counterpoint, if not a complete contrast, with the Alan Menken Star-Spangled Man song.
When talking about temp music, it reminded me a lot as a musician and someone who raps about when I write music to a beat that I found online, and it sounds cool, but then later I have to make a new beat original for myself and then put those lyrics to fit. I get it to work sometimes with restructuring it to mesh well for the final product, but I always remember the way it was this first time I made it to the beat I found on TH-cam or writing to a famous instrumental from one of my favorite artists. Weird to make that connection in this context too because it really makes sense and I understand both sides in my own way. Really cool video!
I swear, i could only remember The Avengers theme (especially in the iconic one-shot scene with all of theme) and first Iron Man. I dont think Guardians of the Galaxy counts, since it's about real songs...
Yup Guardians of the Galaxy has an iconic soundtrack. If I hear a song that's in the film, my mind automatically goes to that scene... They did a great job with the soundtrack.
If anyone asked me to hum music from every MCU movie other than Doctor Strange, Civil War and Age Of Ultron I got you! I'm in the minority who does not relate to this video much!😃
PandamanPandamanPandaman No, the soundtrack was memorable, not the score. Try humming any song from the SCORE and you'll realize you can't think of any at all. The soundtrack (A.K.A. the already existing songs they used for certain scenes) was what was good. The score was entirely forgettable.
I've been listening to soundtracks for a long time, like 20 years and I couldn't understand why I haven't liked as many the last couple years. Thanks a lot, this is a brilliant, well redacted and very well elaborated analysis. And you restored my hope in soundtracks, really thanks a lot. Sorry for being 3 years late.
That's the soundtrack, not the score. In the same case: Suicide Squad also has a great soundtrack, but a lackluster score. The new DCEU is using the same "safe" choices as Marvel does. The only exception to this is the new Wonder Woman theme... which is wonderful and everybody recognizes it the moment they hear it.
Yeah, the Avengers theme is very distinct. Iron Man 3 also has a pretty distinct main theme (played orchestrally throughout, and in a jazzy version for the ending credits), but it doesn't get a lot of attention, probably because that movie had such a mixed response. I liked Iron Man 3, and the soundtrack was one reason why. Really happy someone made a video about this, because it's a damn shame. Considering all the hugely talented people Marvel bring on to direct, produce and star in their movies, they could achieve great things with score if they didn't play it so safe. Especially considering how team-ups and crossovers are such a big part of the franchise. EDIT: Just realized I can also remember the Ant-Man theme from the top of my head despite having seen the movie only once. It's a fairly simplistic theme, but hey.
Wow that Captain America scene was POWERFUL without the narrator!! The #1 theme that came to mind from memory was the Avengers theme (the one prominent at the climax of the first Avengers)...
I've said it in a couple other comments, but it's very misleading. the emotional part (with the boy) is NOT shown the first time, but is the second. THAT is the emotional part of the scene and has no narration in the actual film, which is why this channel cuts before you see it to give you a false impression. this whole channel is about editing, so I'm not surprised they use editing to their advantage when talking about the aspect of film they clearly know nothing about.
Star Wars Trilogies obviously we don't NEED narration, but there's no single right way to make a film. the dude is in a museum about himself at the smithsonian. those places always have narrations inside and it arguably helps to contextualize Caps emotions as he transitions from an icon of the past (the museum) to a symbol of the present (the kid seeing him in awe.) the biggest point I'm making, is that this video pretends the narration ruins the moment, but tries to do so by showing a moment that doesn't have narrations anyway! it's misleading and dishonest.
@@josepholsen7450 the narration in these kinds of museums is always local, if present at all. Coming from a screen or a speaker near an exhibit. It would make sense if different snippets of narration were fading in and out of range as he walks past them, but not like this. And the edit wasn't about that last bit. All these people down here aren't talking about the little boy, but about the whole experience of him walking through the museum. There's even a debate to be had if this scene needs music at all. You are right. There is no one way to make a movie. Different choices in post-production make for a very different movie. And that is what's showcased here. The premise of the video is that a film score not being memorable is a bad thing and the video showed us a few ways and ideas how this could be alleviated. It's a well-made video :o
There's just something powerful about that theme that gives me instant chills. Some people hated on it after BvS saying it was out of place, but it was a risky theme, and I really believe it worked because it was so different and out there.
+James Hartman It just perfectly fits in with her persona, being someone from a society of warrior women. The moment she lowered her shield after protecting Batman from Doomsday's blast, her facial expression (another thing DC has doing great at) gave a strong sense of hostility, as if she was about to devour prey, like a warrior should be like, and then the song just amplifies that emotion exponentially, therefore creating an amazing theme that kept me rocking out, singing it for weeks.
The best part of that theme is that they're using it in the Wonder Woman solo film. I love how they use it at the end of the trailer. Marvel could have done the same thing with Spider-Man. Set up his theme and Civil War and then use it in Spider-Man: Homecoming.
I like that theme but I think it could have less cords and more metals. It sounded out of place on BvS because most scenes in that film came out awkward.
Yeah. A lot of what's said here is true, but the Avengers theme is definitely the exception. You hear it (or a variation of it at least) used to great effect in the Infinity War trailer.
Marvel saw this video and took notes. That's why the infinity war trailer gave more importance to the avengers theme song and black panther has a really good soundtrack.
2020 here and this episode must be, should be in the Hall of Fame, seriously. Still relevant, still solidly true, still exuberantly entertaining as well as illuminating almost 4 years to the day.
For everyone thinking, "I can totally remember the Avengers theme", don't forget that this video came out before Infinity War. Go watch the trailers for all the Avengers movies to see exactly why you can remember the theme now. It's either a coincidence or someone at was actually paying attention, but I'm glad the Marvel movies seem to pay more attention to scores now.
it's because they're holding onto that one song in hopes to defend their fast food movies at all costs, it's like they want the avengers theme to be on any marvel movie
And Danny Elfman. They both used to be the kings of superheroes theme (Superman, Tim Burton's Batman, and Sam Raimi's Spiderman). Now, Marvel just used Danny Elfman as secondary composer for Age of Ultron and ditched Alan Silvestri who composed a memorable theme for the first Avengers movie. It's a good thing Alan will be back for Infinity Wars.
yeah, marvel know this video existed (why did marvel didn't pay this man millions) proof : www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/thor-ragnarok-composer-acknowledges-marvel-scores-sound-same-1054503/
Hans Zimmer is the *problem* here. This entire video, without mentioning his name beyond a credit for a temp track, laid out exactly what's wrong with what he does.
stephen They only used the same ol avengers theme & black panthers motif. Tthattss alll😞 & don't get me started on homecomings shitty repetitive soundtrack
Thank you!! I had these thoughts in the back of my mind and I just assumed I was crazy for disliking the blandness of the Marvel film's music. Thank you for making this video, it's so inspiring!
Iron Man 3, The Avengers, Winter Soldier, and Civil War are ones that I can remember with more clarity than the rest. Winter Soldier and Civil War were to my small knowledge in this wide world fairly original. Whenever I heard the theme in Winter Soldier, I was like this man cannot be stopped. In Civil War, the horns helped carry done if those epic scenes.
+HoustonProductions1 Yeah, and Iron Man 3, say what you will, it had theme music. Civil War had that song, Civil War (still gives me chills), and Winter Soldier had the song, Winter Soldier.
Yeah, I love the Winter Soldier score. I was kinda bummed that Henry Jackman changed the main theme for Civil War. You can hear hints of the old one at times, but it's just not enough. Nothing beats the all -music scene of Bucky dragging Steve out of the Potomac.
I like the first Thor's score too. Complemented the grandiose Shakespearean aspects well. The score for the first Captain America was corny as hell but fit the movie's no-irony, what you see is what you get approach perfectly.
The biggest problem isn't the temp tracking (even Star Wars was temp tracked), its the lack of continuity. How are we supposed to identify a theme with Iron Man when it changes every time??
Titanic became memorable because it's song was played on the radio NONSTOP in the 90s. Inception became memorable because it infected every trailer post 2010. Repetition.
exactly what i thought....you have new theme for every movie...and they are not classic movies like james bond or star wars....btw you have their theme songs on the beginning of the movie, in "intro credits"....same with harry potter, every movie started with that...for marvel movies? their themes are usually in the most epic scenes....avengers, antman, dr. strange....civil war....and then in credits......and that's why i can "sing" or "humm" or "whistle" those theme songs....they were so cool that i had to buy them via net and download them to my phone....avengers, ant-man, dr. strange, guardians of the galaxy....because i had them stucked in my head together with their scenes from the movies...i've read somewhere regarding theme to Star Wars: Rogue One....that it was awful and not original....and i think it is complete opposite...you can feel Star Wars from it, but it is not THAT famous star wars theme song....and i love soundtracks, that's maybe why i can name some of those themes....actually, ironman 2 is probably the only one i don't know.... btw one more example....iron-man 3 starts with eiffel 65 - blue...gotg had "hooked on the feeling", etc. ...the first scene where you can actually hear gotg theme is the prison break from Kyln....or actually that scene, when they are standing together as "a team" next to that control tower in prison....but whatever....i usually can't stop listening their score on youtube at least 2 weeks after movie came out :)
I never noticed this. I never even knew about temp music. Now I’m hearing it in most movies I’m seeing. This video altered my brain chemistry. So well done.
While I agree on the most part, I feel like this video treated a bit unfairly the music of the MCU, you never really once talked about the "BIG" moment in those films like the 360° shot of the Avengers where their theme really shines, or some scene in Ant Man where the score has that Cuban/Heist sound to it or even the first Iron Man score by Ramin Djawadi and Tom Morello that made for a very original sounding soundtrack IMO. You have to take in mind that there has been 7 Harry Potter film, 7 Star Wars films, a lot more James Bond films that uses and re uses the same themes over and over to the point that yes everybody remembers it while the MCU is not a continuous saga like Star Wars but it's made of several films that wouldn't really flow together with the same soundtrack. You wouldn't put the Iron Man 1 soundtrack with Civil War for example. So yeah, there's been 13 or 14 MARVEL movies so far but only a portion of them carries the same themes (for exemple The Winter Soldier/Civil War or Avengers/Age of Ultron). It creates less opportunity for the public to remembers the music from one or two particular films against the same music and themes throughout every single Harry Potter/Star Wars/James Bond film. It would be like asking people if they know the music from The Dark Knight, Mad Max, Blade Runner, Tron Legacy, Alien, etc.... And what about the fact that John Williams literally lifted some music from the Planet Suite composed by Gustav Holst. Isn't that playing safe ? Or the fact that you could seemlessly switch between some Star Wars theme and Indiana Jones theme without noticing ? Even tho I agree with most of the arguments and especially the problems we have today in the industry regarding scores, I feel like you're just looking at one side of a coin.
If you want me to being honest, aside from the fact that BvS might be bad, it only take one scene (of Wonder Woman introduction in the final act) to stick. Because of what? Good theme. I must admit that combination of the expertise (Hans Zimmer and Junkie XL), and freedom of having a RISK, is a bold choice that made something.
Honestly, I have a big tendency to get movie music stucked in my head very easily. I could sing most notable musical themes from most movies I've seen over the years, even ones I only saw once over 10 years ago. But I had to search the Avengers theme because I can't remember it at all, despite having seen all the MCU movies (I'm listening to it now for the second time as I type this, and it still doesn't ring a bell).
I have seen every marvel movie and even after thinking about it I cant think of a single song outside of like Guardians of the Galaxy which is using licensed music. As to your comments your kind of full of shit. I still remember at least 3 songs from "Drive" and I only watched it twice. I remember "Jurassic Parks" theme very clearly even when there was only the one film. I know the "Stranger Things" Themes song after hearing it like 4 times. I remember both the "Back to the Future" Theme music as well as "Indiana Jones" and those were just 3 movies each and I haven't seen Back to the future in more than a decade. "Ghostbusters", "Mission Impossible", "Pirates of the Caribbean", "Batman" both the 89 and Nolan films, "ET", "The Good, The Bad, The ugly", and "Inception" Most People who have seen these films can give you their themes. Yet even after watching what? 14 Marvel movies not only can I not come up with any but neither could those guys being interviewed? The spiderman theme is from the 90s animated show with a camio in the movie from a radio. Basically your full of shit dude a lot of the movies i listed were one offs.
Here's an alternative for filmmakers who want to avoid "temp-love" and create bold original scores: Work with your composer BEFORE you start filming or even while you are writing like Leone with Morricone or Nolan with Zimmer on Interstellar. It's probably the only way Zimmer was able to throw out the big drums finally.
Han & Leia, Opening Theme, Lukes Theme, Duel of the Fates. Iconic. Superman theme, Batman theme from 89 and TDK trilogy, iconic. Harry and Hogwarts themes iconic. No one knows what Iron Man, Cpt. America, or Thor's theme music is. Maybe now in 2023 people could give you the Avengers theme after its over playing in IW & Endgame.. but it really is telling. Great video.
Normies could not tell you the Dark Knight theme, and probably not even the Superman one. The Star Wars themes have been reused countlessly in ads, games, trailers, referenced in TV show and other movies, and have been used throughout the franchise. Same for the rest of John Williams' music. In Star Wars' case, those memorable themes were played out with zero dialogue because of the specific storytelling that was being told in the edit by George Lucas' ex Wife. Those themes are pushing 50 years old. The Harry Potter theme is memorable because it played at the start and end of 8 movies, and on every single Harry Potter ad including TV spots and channel Idents when they play on TV, and in the menus of DVDs and Blu Rays. The MCU didn't assign a single theme to their franchise, and they changed composers on sequels, meaning new themes and new musical styles because who wants to work on the sequel to a successful film and wants to copy what the person before you did? The Avengers theme and the Captain America motif stuck around because Alan Sylvestri scored First Avenger, Avengers, Infinity War & Endgame. He has a very specific writing style just like John Williams does. Where Williams favours Marches, Fanfares, high strings and lots of mid to high range Brass leading, usually focusing on Trumpet and French Horn (Star Wars main theme, Jurassic Park, Imperial March, Superman, Indiana Jones), Alan Sylvestri splits his focus between letting the strings use the full register, and using lots of low to mid range brass that blasts just like John Williams does, but goes for more use of Trombone and Euphonium. People have had 45 years of bombardment of Star Wars and Superman's themes, and only 12 years of Avengers. Ask again in 30 years who can hum a piece from the MCU and you'll definitely get the Avengers theme. Hell, we have that already from the same composer with the Back to the Future theme. 3 movies, it plays at least twice in all of them, AND Ready Player One uses music that sounds similar to it when the DeLorean is being used.
I can't believe how much taking out the narration fixed that Captain America scene. It got so good
it sound like stuerd little scene
Looks like directors nowadays don't know anymore how to use music to tell an emotional story. The narration is not necessary, the music should tell the story. Sadly, in many movies and TV shows now, music has become meaningless elevator music.
holy shit is amazing. It just makes it work.
mudkittens I got shivers when they removed the narration.
yessss
A good example of Star Wars being creative with its music: In Empire Strikes Back when Han Solo gets frozen by carbonite, you don't have dark or depressing music. Instead you have a love theme playing, suddenly making the scene shift from "Han getting frozen" to "Han and Leia being separated. "
Bad Lip Reading ruined that for me
LOL Me too
Another cool Star Wars tidbit: The Imperial March, which everyone remembers as Vader's theme, didn't actually appear until The Empire Strikes Back! Talk about a great composer topping himself.
Exactly. Williams wrote the score like the film was an opera. Characters had their own themes, moments through the films can be recognized entirely by just the music playing during them. If I played Clash of Lightsabers for anyone they'd recognize it was from Luke's fight with Vader.
I subscribed 7 months ago. Just as I'm starting my work shift today, I get the notification for this upload. LONGEST DAY EVAR.
Thanks for the film love, Tony!
"By August 2016, Mark Mothersbaugh was hired to score the film.[2][3] Mothersbaugh was influenced by a video essay from the TH-cam channel Every Frame a Painting, which criticized the scores from previous Marvel Cinematic Universe films for their lack of memorability, to make the score for Thor: Ragnarok as distinctive as possible.[4]" - Music Director for Thor Ragnarok
@@pcyr9999 Thanks for posting the source! It looks like this video singlehandedly changed Marvel's blandness and gave us this: th-cam.com/video/FOabQZHT4qY/w-d-xo.html
Wow, amazing
The most underrated comment of this video.
That is so awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was literally coming here to say it felt like they fixed this with Ragnarok & Infinity War/Endgame. Some of my favourite cinematic music in those films.
That last guy is the kind of dad you'd be so embarrassed of as a teenager, but you'd love to hang out with as an adult
Could not have said it better.
I am so distracted by his breast...
Makes me want to have a dad. i lost mine when I was two.
That guy was gold!
Dude at the end is a legend. No idea who he is. But he's awesome.
Lol yeah, he just kept going.
Zero fucks were given
Instant nerd celebrity!
I love how embarrassed his kids were, haha.
never knew there were so many lyrics to the Spidey theme!
Yup...my like to this video goes for him! My most favorite cartoon theme of all time!
Lol that man in the end is a real fan, literally spider-man's theme was the only one I could remember and it isn't even from the movies.
The Starspangled Man song from Cpt. America, though?
It is now ! A remixed version of it was in Homecoming :) I can't remember if it was at the start credit or the end credit though
They play an orchestral version in the opening credits and iirc if you watch the end credits long enough they play the version by The Ramones eventually?
it was in Marvel's Logo animation
I can sing Homecomings Main theme of the top of my Head. No, not the Orchestral version of the 60s theme. I mean the Main theme that plays throughout the Movie
ex: Rubble scene
Also if any of you start a fucking Marvel vs. DC thing in the comments, I'll just ban you. In our research, we found DC to be just as musically awkward as Marvel, just in a different way. This is an industry-wide problem.
tell that to Zod's snapped neck
damn, you are cursing now? shit just got real bruh
Which editing software do you use to make your videos?
God bless you, Tony
Yeah fuk em both, watchman rule
12:40 fucking STOLE the show.
I can tell his family was embarrassed but he was the GOAT.
Great video overall. Never considered so many things that this brought to attention.
I still feel like there's very little I can confidently recite but there are 100% now a few songs that I can make a sloppy attempt at.
That guy singing the Spider-Man theme is my new favorite person
Spider-dad is the key to all this
+Okanehira
LOL
And he knows all of it.
my new personal hero
I like how he stopped after every other verse and thought to himself: am i gonna show these guys im such a dork that I know the whole fuckin thing?
That is INSANE how powerful 5:16 was without the narration!
it's fake. the emotional scene is not shown at the end of the first example, but would have had no narrations in either moment (when the boy spots cap). this channel intentionally edited it out to prove their point. the narration serves as key exposition for bucky if you never saw First Avenger.
I disagree. I think it provides a focused bolstering of cap's contextual importance in his relationship with the everyday Joe in the movie's universe; reminded of his living legend status, as evidenced by the kind of language used, it's emotional on more than one level than if there were to be just the comparatively nebulous emotional sound of the score. The score alone makes it emotionally claustrophobic, which would make sense if he were just remembering the horrors of war. The tone of the score clearly belies this; emotional but heroic. If it faded up in volume over the, doing this gradually, then maybe it could work. But it kind of does that anyway in the original edit once he sees the kid.
I teared up from thar shit mane
I think rather than being powerful just like that, it shows that the scene has more potential without the narration.
But the score would need to be changed a bit in tone and volume if it actually stood alone.
Feels like Spielberg directed it.
The Captain America clip without the narrator is so much more effective. Amazing to see the impact of such a small change
aquamus this channel edited out the boy seeing cap the first time they roll clip because the narrating STOPS during that moment. they intentionally misguided the viewers to falsely establish their point.
There's a risk though that audiences come to depend on the score too much to tell them how to feel at any given moment if it's placed above sound or dialogue. It's like how comedies on TV use a laughter track to remind you to laugh at all the jokes. Some of the most exciting scenes in cinema can be done without any resort to music, like the original mission impossible wires scene. Using music to get an audience pumped or psyched or sad is the most quick and basic way there is really I feel. The score in the phantom meance is amazing but I'd still rather watch Captain America the Winter Solider because really music can't compensate for more important things like writing and directing.
I think it sounded a bit weird. Like those middle notes that rise right before the kid is shown indicate that a narrator or something should probably be there.
I enjoy the narration because it's Gary Sinise, and that's such a Sinise (support the troops) thing to do that it grounds Cap firmly in this universe for me.
it became emotionally richer and deeper without the narrator’s voice and only the music
I’m glad Danny Elfman was in this, but they failed to mention his score to the 2002 Spider-Man movie! That music is extremely effective in playing the emotion and energy of the picture. Yet, it could also stand alone as an incredible piece of art! Love you Danny! 🖤
Haha that ending!!! That was pretty cool
wrenthereaper
Dude, with the number of subscribers you have you could be making a LOT of money. Why don't you ever make videos? That's so interesting to see!
Isiskos I"m full time at Corridor and Sam and Niko pumping out content every day! My personal channel is now my side project. Check it out and I hope to see you in the comments there!
that's probably the ONLY Marvel music that is recognizable. XDXDXD
One of the most remembered marvel songs should be Winter Soldier credits.
or the x-men opening theme
Please everyone, watch Dan Golding's response video to ours: th-cam.com/video/UcXsH88XlKM/w-d-xo.html
He disagrees with us, lays out why, and is so on the money about so many things.
Ok
Thanks linking to Dan's response. It's a great rebuttal, but not a complete refutation of your essay.
+
It's not complicated though. No one remembers Marvel music because *there is no one Marvel theme.*
Those other examples provided, those were examples of people singing the main themes of the franchises you asked for. There is no Main Theme for Marvel. People primarily remember Main Themes.
question. what software did you use to isolate the sound and dialogue??? it would be super helpful for me. thank you! also great video! raises many great questions
It's ironic finding this video post End Game, years after this video was released.
It's almost like Marvel realised they needed to get their act together with music and now that Avengers theme gets everyone hyped
Again how does it go again? I have no idea.
no. who remembers the avengers theme
Its just not memorable though. Its pretty generic action dun dun music of the post inception era.
I've heard a couple people in public sing the Avengers theme. Especially on the buildup to Endgame
The only notable tune most Marvel Music sounds like stock tunes that come in editing programs
Oh my goodness!!! Marvel should pay this man millions, Marvel earned a lot by improving its theme music in the last 3 years. A very well researched video. Hats off!!
exactly, they know this video exist and didn't pay him ;(
www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/thor-ragnarok-composer-acknowledges-marvel-scores-sound-same-1054503/
They didn't improve that much. Outside if avengers endgame I can't think of any memorable songs from marvel films.
The Avengers had an iconic theme since 2012 and Captain America, Winter Soilder and Ant-Man had amazing scores as well. What are you guys talking about?
@@Yourboss3382 We are talking about the recall value of those themes, which obviously wasn't much
@@galactic85 Black Panther
I swear I've heard inception music in a million other movies. Now I know why.
Even when I'm not watching smash videos, I see GimR!
I totally agree. (also, thanks for all you do for the community!)
+Thomas Speranza ^^^
Holy shit I found GimR deep in the comment section again. Do I get a prize?
The GIMZ always winz
Yup, one example is the Hope theme from Xmen Days of future past
This is an 11/10 video.
Eye-opening to some, confirmation to others and needs to be shared all over the world.
perfectly put!
seriously all of this guys' videos are 11/10
iang true
Such a confirmation. I always listen consciously for music in films.
just asked a friend to do this and she hummed like 9 marvel songs.
That one guy who knew the entire Spider-Man theme, I kept cracking up every time he launched into the next verse.
Genius
Whats your problem dude, you find that cringey shit funny?
I hope he got a singing gig out of this
@@joellim6988 AND U R THE COOLEST DUDE EVER RIGHT???
@@lucm4694 yes
Seeing the Danny Elfman clips made me sad. He’s such talented composer when he’s allowed to exercise creative freedom.
Fable theme is a lightning example of this.
That guy at the end...amazing! Haha.
He's a Dad amongst dads.
his son at the bottom doesnt look too happy
Manboobs
he won my heart, always keep that childhood spirit people it is so endearing
awesome!
Coming back to this video after watching Endgame. For all the people saying he was creating a false narrative, go back and watch the trailers for Age of Ultron and the original Avengers. Marvel only started doing their signature "Da daaaa da daaaa" in Infinity War and onwards. I think someone at Marvel saw this :D
Marvel did see this. Thor 3 director credited this video.
It's so annoying everyone is jumping on a hate train because nobody can keep track of their history. He was right in 2016. And they greatly improved, maybe even because of this video. But people just know it's memorable now and retroactively think that's how it always been.
@@destrogamer4521 That makes sense. I remember there were a number of scenes in Thor 3 that specifically linger on just the music to have it inspire the emotion in the scene. This is maybe best shown when Hulk turns back into Banner. It could've been done as horror or even comedy, but the music is so pained and tragic even before any action happens that it sets up the welling of emotions inside "The Monster" before we see him break down as Thor looks on, horrified.
@@destrogamer4521 if Taika Waititi really did watch this video, then he made right decision by using Led Zeppelin's "Immigrant Song" for Thor Ragnarok.
not true, Avengers theme is played in the first Avengers when they team up
That last guy deserves half the revenue from this video in my non serious opinion..,
He is operating at 1000% Dad Mode
mm,m,w,s
Seriously awesome dude.
Tony doesn't monetize his videos.
Yesss
The Marvel song that will always stick in my head is the Winter Solder's Theme. Something about the hard pounding sound along with the high pitched note that drags on, building tension every time he enters a scene. But if someone asked me to repeat it, I couldn't without just sounding weird.
Holy shit when you changed the music for the Thor scene it totally changed the atmosphere omg. I've never thought music would make such a difference. The original music would have been good for a comedy-ish movie, but to my knowledge, Thor is more focused on action and fighting and stuff, so your version would have much better suited the scene. Good Job!
Music makes so much more difference than you realize. Often, it's basically half of the scene.
The scene was meant to be a comic beat though- they're knocking at the window and yell 'FOUND YOU!' at Thor, having heroic music underneath that moment would make the sequence tonally jarring as the visuals and the dialogue are trying to sell a joke while the music is trying to sell the scene as an epic reunion.
Wow, I had no idea that temp music was now being abused like that! What's the point of hiring a creative professional only to get them to pretty much copy someone else's work?!
Or worse: Hiring a creative professional to have them copy somebody else's copy of their own work. =P
It is cheaper than licensing the actual songs.
Eh.. I work in sound post for film and I see it all the time.. temp music is pretty much copied all the fucking time.
They need the professional to "change" the music enough to avoid copyright lawsuits.
As a composer, I can't remember one single score from any Marvel film in the past 8 years off the top of my head. However, while it takes me a moment to find it in my head, the original scores for the Tobey Maguire Spider-Man films had some interesting, highly fitting, and memorable scores. The music within that film seemed to fit the magical feel of Spider-Man swinging through the skies and around the massive buildings of New York and I love it. Something I feel most Marvel films have lacked since then. And I believe those scores were by Danny Elfman as well.
Iron Man - Driving with the Top Down
Thor - Sons of Odin
Thor - Thor Kills the Destroyer
Captain America - Captain America March
Avengers - The Avengers
Avengers - Helicarrier
Avengers - A Promise
Iron Man 3 - Iron Man 3
Captain America: TWS - Taking a Stand
Captain America: TWS - The Winter Soldier
Captain America TWS - End of the Line
Guardians of the Galaxy - To the Stars
Guardians of the Galaxy - Black Tears
Ant Man - Main Theme
Ant Man - Tales to Astonish
Civil War - Cap's Promise
Iron Man - Driving with the Top Down and Iron Man 3's ending credits Can You Dig It are so good.
Same. I don't have to Google a list or anything. Sandman's theme from three is a piece I hum every so often it's stuck with me so well.
Thinking to DC, Basically all of BvS's score. I'll count MoS in there since the iterations on the themes went through.
oh my god it's garrett
I can never get enough of Driving With The Top Down
really shows how the avengers theme was fairly unrecognizable until infinity war came out and they put the theme on every scene
Right?then Endgame come too
The theme is so recognizable now
But is it reconisable because its good? Or because they repeated it so much it became too hard to miss?
@@MrVos-mh7qo I know I rewatched those trailers again and again both intentionally and from TH-cam ads and from other pre movie trailers.
Why not both
That’s because Avengers hasn’t been around for a while like Harry Potter or Star Wars at that point. Now it’s been over a decade since the avengers movies started, and people remember the music, they’ve had time to sit with it
I got goosebumps in the Captain America scene. It’s insane how important film music is.
right! captain America is missing emotional investment
This video is what made Marvel highlight their avengers theme in every trailer and everyone knows it now! All thanks to this dude!!
Really?? How do you know?
@@krzysztofpiasek5682 no he's right. The director for Thor 3 has credited this video
@@eddydrouet1888 Got a link to this, mate? Director crediting this video.
@@yeppieyay8906 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor:_Ragnarok_(soundtrack)
Still having one recognisable theme for 20+ movies is kinda weak. I am sure you can think of at least 4 Star Wars Themes for the Original Trilogy.
Tony Zhou, thank you this and your other vids. Very interesting and highly intelligent.
There are a couple other factors at play with action movie scores which makes them all sound alike. Not only are composers asked to mimic the temp, composers are also expected to create great sounding computer/sampler generated mock-ups & demos to be cut into the edit for the filmmakers and producers to watch. A composer will readily be fired from a job if the mock-ups don't sound convincing. The sounds that tend to be the most convincing are percussion, long sustains, short attacks like string pizzicato and synths- your basic recipe of a Marvel score.
Also, many modern filmmakers shy away from strong musical themes. They seem to feel it's cheating or manipulative to have a memorable theme developing along with the narrative. Yet what people remember is strong musical theme - for example, the ones you mention at the beginning of the video. In avoiding themes composers are stuck with what had previously been filler material. Music then is just something that keeps a scene moving. It's the musical equivalent of "shoe-leather".
To avoid themes composer often resort to simply arpeggiating chords and adding sustains and percussion. What should be a rich and varied palette has been reduced to the bare minimum elements.
Thanks again for your work. Cheers.
Marco Beltrami had a great quote about mockups that we included in an earlier version of the video, but we ultimately decided to ditch that point, because... well, we couldn't "prove" what he said unless we had access to some of those demos. And while I managed to get my hands on a few Marvel demos, it wasn't enough for us to really get a slam dunk.
I mean, obviously I agree with your point. But agreeing with it, and "proving" it via footage are two very different things.
Looks like I gotta make a name for myself making indie films before hiring a badass motherfucker like Yoko Kanno to compose music for any film I wanna make.
In my experience the 'I hate nondiagetic music' attitude is associated with indie or artistic filmmaking so it's interesting to see it influence these movies as they try to gain some degree of cultural seriousness.
fair enough, TZ.
One quick aside - Until relatively recently composers demoed their music on live, solo piano (as opposed to mock ups). Sometimes the composer would sing a line on top of what they were playing. The first time the composer, director and everybody else heard anything like the actual score was at the recording session.
All those great themes/scores of John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, Elmer Bernstein, etc. were auditioned in a room with a piano and a moviola. Kind of amazing.
Thank you again for these great vids. Cheers.
This video really makes me appreciate the soundtrack for Into the Spiderverse, because the score was made to fit with the movie. What's up Danger is still really incredible, not just on its own, but in how well it meshes with the tone and emotions of the scene.
into the spiderverse had an incredible score
Yes, Into the Spiderverse was perfection.
But I've liked all the nonMCU Spider-Man movies.
And those first two raimi ones had great Elfman scores
The only music I remember from spider-verse was “sunflower” but hey, that’s not too shabby.
@@langreeves6419 fucking mcu fanboy detected.
@@nickchavarria8052 poor fucking mcu fanboy detected.
It's like someone at marvel saw this.
They did
@@Belioyt sounds like you're in the production?
A response to this video th-cam.com/video/UcXsH88XlKM/w-d-xo.html
And then ignored it?
Cameron Ternent um no. They listened and now the MCU scores are much better and more recognizable.
This speaks volumes about how I feel about Marvel movies. While I have enjoyed nearly every Marvel movie, they have all seemed formulaic, bland, and predictable. This resonates down to how they score films. Always playing it safe, making good but not original great films.
Pun intended?
+Caleb Saxton, Yeah, I like Marvel, but you're right.
That's pretty much Disney. Its fun, safe, and processed for biggest profits. Don't expect anything that hasn't been formulated to the nth degree.
Lucas Alves The thing is... even their fun and interesting movies are formulaic to the Nth degree. Probably focused tested to hell and back.
+Lucas “Prrg” Alves Captain America The Winter Soldier's villain was just a regular guy in charge of hydra which was refreshing
I felt chills when I heard the Thor music switched
The interesting part is that the music he replaced it with was from the Thor soundtrack itself! Which stands to reason that the problem isn't with the music - its how the music is used.
i Know!!!!
Every marvel movie has a good memorable theme. The problem is that the themes aren't re-used in other movies. Thor has a different theme in every movie, Iron Man has a different theme in every movie....
Not being able to remember the music is because the producers aren't letting the theme become iconic because they keep ordering their composers to replace it!
it feels like LOTR
Ioazie
TFW HE TOOK OUT THE PERSON TALKING IN THE CAPTAIN AMERICA SCENE AND I STARTED CRYING???? SIR YOU MAKE SUCH A STRONG POING
Strong poing indeed
his poing do be strong
May the poing be with you
so poing
I think you missed the poing..
Every Frame a Painting is currently the channel with the most production quality of youtube.
Yes Tony's film insight is very insightful; however, TH-cam has tons of channels with better production value. I still love Every Frame A Painting, but it has nowhere near the "best" production value.
S&S Pictures Well what do you watch then? I think Crash Course, Veritasium, Vsauce 3, Kurzgesagt, Wisecrack and maybe School of Life are on similar levels...
I've become a huge fan of kaptainkristian lately.
Nerdwriter1 has excellent production value.
Ahoy has some of the best that I've seen
This video literally made me realize the reason that I wasn't getting emotionally affected to marvel films, really good analysis.
Ha, that guy singing Spiderman at the end, lol :-) He looks a bit like Forest Whitaker.
I was about to say: wow Whitaker has some skills XD
"this is really a safe way to score a film"
That's my main problem with these movies. Everything is SAFE.
Not really
I would agree before but not after Infinity War and Endgame. They finally had real stakes and the finally also have big prices to pay to get what they want.
@@mathiyanz Literally all the Disney movies are formulaic but whatever. Same humor, plot structure, etc. Only endgame did anything different and that was only because RDJ wanted out.
Exactly!
Well,Winter Soldier was risky in terms of tone and it worked.
Tony, great point, but it is made even better by the counterpoint - Guardians of the Galaxy. They uses 70's pop/rock songs so well in their soundtrack, that it became part of the love of the movie. I still listen to "Awesome Mix, Volume 1" playlist that I made. Those songs DID anchor emotional moments, they WERE RISKS that the director took, and it PAID OFF because this was the Marvel movie that I most identify with. I kept waiting for you to bring this up as the exception that proved the rule.
Can't wait for "Awesome Mix, Volume 2" - which is PART OF THE PLOT.
That's not an original score. Using famous needle drops from the 70s (however well used they are in the film, and they are VERY well used) is very different from crafting an original score like Star Wars. I'm sure you can sing Awesome Mix Volume 1 but how's your ability with the Guardians of the Galaxy main theme (as heard in the Kyln Escape and at the end of the film)?
Maybe that was James Gunn's hack to get around the problem? I kept waiting for your interview subjects to break out with "If you like Pina Coladas...." or "Moonage Daydream ooohhhh yeahhhhhh".
ps. Thanks for the reply!
Your reply got you a patron
True but the MCU should have an iconic song for each film to differentiate it from just a typical superhero film. I do like the avengers theme song tho
What kind of "apology" was that?
"We're so sorry that people think we did something wrong. We have complete respect for the guy whose music we ripped off."
Yep.
It is written by lawyer. Anything more could be used in court to squeeze millions of profits. So yeah, it is sleazy worded.
The kind written by expensive lawyers and backed up with a modest yet sufficiently large check written out to the offended party.
Ya Dink
It's the kind of ''we say what you want to hear as long as it doesn't cost money or result into more PR trouble.''
What's missing from the MCU that Star Wars, Harry Potter, and James Bond have?
Well, two thirds of those have John Williams...
ricky gervais 🤦🏼♂️
James Bond's music wasn't written by John Williams but your point is valid. You get john williams and you aren't telling him what to do, he will do whatever the hell he likes. David Arnold was the composer for James Bond from Tomorrow Never Dies to Quantum of Solace and i read somewhere that when a director tells him "I don't want the music to be noticed" he will just reply with "Do you notice the music in E.T.?" "yes" "And what's wrong with E.T.?" I get the sense he bullies directors into letting him do what he thinks is best aha
Megadog the avengers theme is so good
@@rhodriwilliams2599 that's why he said two-thirds
TheDragonKing yes my mistake. Still that story about David Arnold is fairly relevant.
I wish more movie creators would think about this! Pretty much every “iconic” movie/tv show in the last 70 years that have stayed in the public consciousness (ie, not the ones that win oscars but then disappear) have a well chosen score and/or a memorable “theme” tune!!
I feel like the drive angry score is lawsuit worthy, holy crap
I guess the problem is that they're all in on it, so it would be endless.
Sounds just slightly better than the temp imo, but yea.
One of the last massive blockbusters I can think of with really memorable, original music was Lord of the Rings.
Even 20 years later, I can still hear in my head the ominous Balrog chanting, the triumphant Rohirrim horns, or the cheerful Shire flute. I can't sing or hum any of it because it was so complex... but the memory is vividly engraved in my brain.
For my money, Howard Shore is the greatest film composer of all time. LOTR's score is nearly 10 hours long and when I want to hear, say, "For Frodo" at the end of Return of the King, I listen to the entire score from the beginning to get there (I may repeat a few of my favorites along the way, though). Themes build, then interweave with others, to develop the grand masterpiece. No piece can be truly appreciated on its own.
And oh so memorable.
@Nicolas Nick Yep. And I bought the extended score as soon as the chills died down after having finished the movie ("What Are You Going To Do When You're Not Saving The World?") for the first time.
@Nicolas Nick Well great. Now it's stuck in my head and I have to go listen to it with the subs up and the buttkicker on (Zimmer Drums).
Thanks a lot.
;)
@Nicolas Nick YESS! Man of steel soundtrack is awesome ans epic. Flight is my personal favourite.
It's so brilliant. I attempted to learn some of the themes on piano just from listening, and that was when I realized that learning music just by ear is pretty hard if it isn't a pop song lol.
And listening to somebody who's an expert on these things analysing the whole soundtrack is such a revelation. It really, substantially elevated the movies, like a good soundtrack should.
Dear, @Every Frame a Painting,
I just learned that THIS very video influenced the makers of "Thor 3 - Ragnarok" to compose and create the original and weird music for the Grandmaster (Jeff Goldblum).
Can't describe how happy I am, that you actually made the movie world a better place. Thank you!
Gwendaddelt wow.. Really? Where did you get this information?
Actually the composer of Thor 3 REUSED parts of previous Thor themes to create a sense of continuity. Something that Marvel movies dont do is reuse their themes hence why we often dont remember the theme songs. What he did actually contradicts Tony's video.
That dad enjoying the spider-man theme so much is THE BIGGEST MOOD.
You are the reason why Thor: Ragnarok's music is so great. Thank you.
Rahul Choudhary still not memorable tho
No, you're just an idiot.
no it still suck
it’s forgettable i can’t remember any music from it except the Led Zeppelin song
& they didn't even take opportunity to play it when he makes triumphant return! They just play the avengers theme again 😒
Wow that captain america scene is waaaaayyy better with the music in the foreground
Yeah! Made the scene feel like a great Steven Spielberg moment
to be honest... the cut in this video is misleading. If you watch, the music is played under the narration, sure. but that dialogue is necessary exposition for the film to stand on its own for people that may not have seen First Avenger. Now, if you watch... the EMOTIONAL part of the scene is when the boy sees captain America and cap responds. in this video that ending is cut out during the "bad" example and re-inserted during the "good" example. it is a terribly misleading editing tactic on this channel's part. in the real film, the emotional punch of the ending of the scene STILL has no narration, and therefore the directors do have a proper sense of when and when not to "undermine" scores. just look at infinity war and how there is no score during the most emotional part of the film to add weight/suspense.
the way they edited that example in this video reminds me of the SNL Donald Glover jurassic park lawyer sketch! "play the clip! .....okayokayokaystopstopstop!" lol
The dude in the end knew about what would happen with Spider-Man: Homecoming!
Too bad they didn't use the Ramones version
Snowball they did in the end
Wasn't it blitzkrieg bop?
Michael Giachinno's theme was pretty badass
The rest of the soundtrack was fucking repetitive & generic tho
I am using this video for my school project about how music is differently used nowadays compared to the old days of Movies. I think this video was wonderfully made and well put. especially the twist at the end 11:30 where you made a really great point about marvels music playing it safe. great Job. and thank you.
What I think is great about this channel is that it really has an impact on the way people look at film. I live in Germany and since this video has been released, every single film podcast I listen to has talked about modern film music, based on your video! You change the people think about film. They now think about it more as an art than before! And this just awesome, to open people's eyes! Thank you!
somebody send this to Marvel Studio's RIGHT NOW!!!
I'm sure they have seen it by now
No, don't this video is bullshit. He says the theme from Star Wars, Harry, Potter and James Bond are memorable but those are the main themes. Then he complains about the scores from the Marvel movies but ignores their themes.
Whatever agenda this guy has he's not accurate.
+Hello There But even then, none of the songs made for each of the heroes of the Marvel films ever stand out, they're bland, boring and forgettable
That's not true at all. It's just that you've heard the Superman march all your life and you don't care enough about music to listen to them outside of their movies. The Iron Man score is great, very fitting with the character. Thor's entire score is among the best of the MCU. Danny Elfman created a very memorable motif for the Avengers.
Let's hear you hum those Marvel themes then. Don't go back to check to make sure what it is. If you're right and this video is bogus you should be able to hum it right off the top of your head. Just right now in your seat record yourself humming it and get back to us with it.
11:23 "were not saying "this is the right choice here"...... my shiverings beg to differ
Tony, I refer back to your videos all of the time. These video are so inspiring and have propelled me into thinking of making video essays of my own. The editing in these videos is just impeccable, so you have my praise. Thank you for making content like this.
I'd have started singing Hooked on a Feeling, even though it doesn't really count. guardians is the one time Marvel has done something ballsy with their music.
excellent video as always Tony.
ballsy (for them) but actually just nostalgic and safe
@@funlesbian Yeah, it was all music you could here on any classic rock station. But to people who don't listen to it, which to be fair is a lot of people, it's probably great to hear it for the first time.
Not really ballsy. Just a surefire way to get people to wake up from their naps. Not creative at all. They don’t have anything unique to their movies because they aren’t made by directors or artists. They’re made by studios looking to check boxes so they can get a good enough aggregate score on Rotten Tomatoes.
Always on point man! I'm huge soundtrack fan, and I feel the same way. Marvel doesn't take chances with its scores, while soundtracks make 1/4 of a movie. (The exeption for me is Alan Silvestri's Avengers theme). Keep the videos coming man! You just became my favourite movie channel! What are your favourite soundtracks guys? Would love to hear them!
My favourite soundtracks (albums) in non-specific order:
1. Lord of the Rings Trilogy
2. How to Train your Dragon 1&2
3. Kung Fu Panda
4. Batman Trilogy
5. Incredibles
6. Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 1&2
7. Inception
8. Game of Thrones
9. Transformers Movies
10. Finding Nemo
11. American Beauty
12. Madagascar
13. Good, Bad and the Ugly
14. Lion King
15. Sherlock Holmes (Series + movies)
16. Amelie
I'm sure I missed a lot of them but these are the first ones to pop in to my head. Let me know your favourites :D
1. Hoffnung Am Ende Der Welt - Der Untergang
2. One Summer's Day - Spirited Away
3. Haiku - Finding Nemo
4. Define Dancing - Wall-E
5. Why so serious - The Dark Knight
6. Overture - Back To the Future
7. Sulley and Mike - Monsters Inc.
8. Moves Like an Ape, Looks Like a Man - Tarzan
9. Terminator 2 theme - Terminator
10. Married Life - Up
As a whole album I would suggest The Last of Us.
Silvestri's Captain America theme is also very good.
You're right. Also a great theme! It's more forgettable than the avengers theme though, but still great!
I alway refer to movie scores as soundtracks, but you are right! There is a big difference, but I'm sure you know what I meant...
That's why Hans Zimmer scores stick out more to me, his themes such rich emotions out of you. Wonder Woman's theme is a big example.
The entire Sherlock Holmes soundtrack is 👌👌
Gladiator!
He created Thor Ragnarok. Aaaaaaaah ah! Aaaaaaaah! Ah! Aaaaaaaaaah Ah! Remember that music?
@@davidnjihia6781 bruh what no.
The entire Modern Warfare 2 soundtrack!
It's just like triple a games
Edit: I didn't really mean with the music, but more with how developers are making safe choices so that their games will sell rather than trying anything unique or inventive. But I guess the comment still stands with game music to an extent.
lol, good point.
Assassin's Creed 2
Even Halo has derivative music now with 5.
Excuse-fucking-you, Hans Zimmer's Crysis 2 and Modern Warfare 2 are beautiful.
Meanwhile, in Hotline Miami...
I can remember the Avenger's theme song but that's it
Except it's from Alan Silvestri, which explains why it's so memorable
Alan Silvestri composed both Captain America: The First Avenger and The Avengers. I fell completely in love with Captain America's theme. It's rousing, old-fashioned, dignified, and yet not cheesy. It was kind of a counterpoint, if not a complete contrast, with the Alan Menken Star-Spangled Man song.
Exactly
I was like "OH OH WAIT I KNOW!" *singing the Sam Raimi Spiderman theme* and then I realized, it's not apart of the MCU
thats not sam raimi's it's from the cartoon
but still
speaking of cartoons though .... the Spectacular Spiderman theme and 90s X-Men themes were amazing
That was one of the only Marvel Films that had a discernible theme.
The original Sam Raimi Spider-Man was made in a time where they actually scored movies beautifully. Now they're lazy
When talking about temp music, it reminded me a lot as a musician and someone who raps about when I write music to a beat that I found online, and it sounds cool, but then later I have to make a new beat original for myself and then put those lyrics to fit. I get it to work sometimes with restructuring it to mesh well for the final product, but I always remember the way it was this first time I made it to the beat I found on TH-cam or writing to a famous instrumental from one of my favorite artists. Weird to make that connection in this context too because it really makes sense and I understand both sides in my own way. Really cool video!
I swear, i could only remember The Avengers theme (especially in the iconic one-shot scene with all of theme) and first Iron Man. I dont think Guardians of the Galaxy counts, since it's about real songs...
You mean OSt's when you say "real songs"?
GoT has a lot of epic soundtrack besides the songd
🙁🎶
Dxöfnfghfj(jjjhjkkjjiojjkbklnjjjjijjkopåvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv ccvvv.
Yup Guardians of the Galaxy has an iconic soundtrack. If I hear a song that's in the film, my mind automatically goes to that scene... They did a great job with the soundtrack.
I would've start singing Spider-Man (2002) theme if he had asked me that, off the top.
Or the X-Men theme (the one by John Ottman).
But they aren't MCU films, so it works on their favor.
X-gon give it to ya?
David Janjic That's a song, it wasn't created for deadpool.
Actually, the Avengers theme is pretty memorable, I would start singing that. But he still got a point.
If anyone asked me to hum music from every MCU movie other than Doctor Strange, Civil War and Age Of Ultron I got you! I'm in the minority who does not relate to this video much!😃
Marvel saw this video and took notes.
PandamanPandamanPandaman No, the soundtrack was memorable, not the score. Try humming any song from the SCORE and you'll realize you can't think of any at all. The soundtrack (A.K.A. the already existing songs they used for certain scenes) was what was good. The score was entirely forgettable.
they sure did i love thor and thanos's arrivals in infinity war. thanks to that score
I think they did, infinity war had rich scores...
@@sulaimanmhashim BLACK PANTHER
@@lautarovera2205 black panther sucks big dick
I've been listening to soundtracks for a long time, like 20 years and I couldn't understand why I haven't liked as many the last couple years. Thanks a lot, this is a brilliant, well redacted and very well elaborated analysis. And you restored my hope in soundtracks, really thanks a lot.
Sorry for being 3 years late.
SO it's been one year today since this last upload from Tony. What's happened to our favorite mystifying, thought-provoking master of film analysis?
came here today with the same question - what happend to tony?
He's been doing some work for the channel criterioncollection.
Hhmmmmmmm.... Interesting...
He works for a film publishing company now no time for youtube
Royce he got murdered by the marvel fanboys
I was hoping someone would start "ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I'm hooked on a feeling"
Yes, but that's not original music. Also Reservoir Dogs.
ooga chaka ooga chaka :v
we are talking scores not soundtrack. Although GOTG had a great soundtrack.
Tarantion's music choices are the best. That's why i bought the soundtrack from Pulp Fiction.
That's the soundtrack, not the score. In the same case: Suicide Squad also has a great soundtrack, but a lackluster score. The new DCEU is using the same "safe" choices as Marvel does. The only exception to this is the new Wonder Woman theme... which is wonderful and everybody recognizes it the moment they hear it.
Avengers is the only one can hum off the top of my head.
***** Lol I actually heard the score in my head when reading that
Captain America March.
Fcfff
Yeah, the Avengers theme is very distinct.
Iron Man 3 also has a pretty distinct main theme (played orchestrally throughout, and in a jazzy version for the ending credits), but it doesn't get a lot of attention, probably because that movie had such a mixed response. I liked Iron Man 3, and the soundtrack was one reason why.
Really happy someone made a video about this, because it's a damn shame. Considering all the hugely talented people Marvel bring on to direct, produce and star in their movies, they could achieve great things with score if they didn't play it so safe. Especially considering how team-ups and crossovers are such a big part of the franchise.
EDIT: Just realized I can also remember the Ant-Man theme from the top of my head despite having seen the movie only once. It's a fairly simplistic theme, but hey.
It's the only themes that's been used in more then one film, if you don't count that TDW Captain America theme joke.
That ending is just the most adorable thing, so wholesome!!!
Wow that Captain America scene was POWERFUL without the narrator!! The #1 theme that came to mind from memory was the Avengers theme (the one prominent at the climax of the first Avengers)...
Justin Burfitt yes, it really was. Wish they had used it...
I've said it in a couple other comments, but it's very misleading. the emotional part (with the boy) is NOT shown the first time, but is the second. THAT is the emotional part of the scene and has no narration in the actual film, which is why this channel cuts before you see it to give you a false impression. this whole channel is about editing, so I'm not surprised they use editing to their advantage when talking about the aspect of film they clearly know nothing about.
Joseph Olsen We don't need narration. It's how you make effective filmmaking. Period.
Star Wars Trilogies obviously we don't NEED narration, but there's no single right way to make a film. the dude is in a museum about himself at the smithsonian. those places always have narrations inside and it arguably helps to contextualize Caps emotions as he transitions from an icon of the past (the museum) to a symbol of the present (the kid seeing him in awe.) the biggest point I'm making, is that this video pretends the narration ruins the moment, but tries to do so by showing a moment that doesn't have narrations anyway! it's misleading and dishonest.
@@josepholsen7450 the narration in these kinds of museums is always local, if present at all. Coming from a screen or a speaker near an exhibit. It would make sense if different snippets of narration were fading in and out of range as he walks past them, but not like this.
And the edit wasn't about that last bit. All these people down here aren't talking about the little boy, but about the whole experience of him walking through the museum.
There's even a debate to be had if this scene needs music at all. You are right. There is no one way to make a movie. Different choices in post-production make for a very different movie. And that is what's showcased here.
The premise of the video is that a film score not being memorable is a bad thing and the video showed us a few ways and ideas how this could be alleviated. It's a well-made video :o
that dad is cool af
Geo DOOM
The poor kid tho. Just watch him!
If it counted also the TV series, you'd just need to whistle Daredevil's opening theme
i could never forget that intro... truly amazing
u would be right. If the video would not telling about movies only
John Paesano did a marvelous job on that one
I have that theme as my ringtone
Oh yeah. And Jessica Jones. And the Lonely Man theme. And the Spiderman theme from 2002.
The guy at the end was waiting for that moment so his life.
"it makes the scene emotionally richer" - OH YES IT DOES. Very nicely shown.
Then Wonder Woman's theme song just blows up anything Marvel has made.
true
There's just something powerful about that theme that gives me instant chills. Some people hated on it after BvS saying it was out of place, but it was a risky theme, and I really believe it worked because it was so different and out there.
+James Hartman
It just perfectly fits in with her persona, being someone from a society of warrior women. The moment she lowered her shield after protecting Batman from Doomsday's blast, her facial expression (another thing DC has doing great at) gave a strong sense of hostility, as if she was about to devour prey, like a warrior should be like, and then the song just amplifies that emotion exponentially, therefore creating an amazing theme that kept me rocking out, singing it for weeks.
The best part of that theme is that they're using it in the Wonder Woman solo film. I love how they use it at the end of the trailer. Marvel could have done the same thing with Spider-Man. Set up his theme and Civil War and then use it in Spider-Man: Homecoming.
I like that theme but I think it could have less cords and more metals.
It sounded out of place on BvS because most scenes in that film came out awkward.
I'm a little surprised that there wasn't a single person who remembered the Avengers Theme.
Dun, Dun... DunDun... Dun... Dun, Dun!
Yeah. A lot of what's said here is true, but the Avengers theme is definitely the exception. You hear it (or a variation of it at least) used to great effect in the Infinity War trailer.
Marvel saw this video and took notes. That's why the infinity war trailer gave more importance to the avengers theme song and black panther has a really good soundtrack.
Because the Avengers theme has been used in 2 out of 18 MCU movies.
Kailee Walden its really hard to remember
Absolutely love this video - insane how marvel has turned it around since…the avengers theme is definitely iconic now
HE SAID "BANE" AT 6:10, THAT'S A LAWSUIT
sometimes people spell it bain idk why
CHECKMATE MARVEL SEE YOU IN COURT
John Cena For you.
U U U U
is pointing that out part of your plan?
OMG the last guy was awesome
I'm far more impressed than I should be.
Same, he was beyond awesome.
I'm that one nerd who can hum the Avengers Theme.
You're not alone. :)
I can hum all the themes... so I think I am alone
Not alone my friend.
Same.
The first Iron Man had a sweet theme as well.
No you are not, i was about to toss the screen downstairs when these people could not remember Avenger's theme song.
2020 here and this episode must be, should be in the Hall of Fame, seriously. Still relevant, still solidly true, still exuberantly entertaining as well as illuminating almost 4 years to the day.
We will miss you immensely, Every Frame a Painting. Thanks for the wealth of knowledge and experience.
where is he, man do u know?
medium.com/@tonyszhou/postmortem-1b338537fabc
wow, and i've only just found this channel!
For everyone thinking, "I can totally remember the Avengers theme", don't forget that this video came out before Infinity War. Go watch the trailers for all the Avengers movies to see exactly why you can remember the theme now. It's either a coincidence or someone at was actually paying attention, but I'm glad the Marvel movies seem to pay more attention to scores now.
it's because they're holding onto that one song in hopes to defend their fast food movies at all costs, it's like they want the avengers theme to be on any marvel movie
I don't recall any of the music from infinity war.
I remembered the theme from the first time I saw The Avengers in 2012. Other than Can You Dig It from Iron Man 3, I can’t remember anything else
I dunno, I remembered the Avengers theme pretty well when I was young, but it definitely wasn't as popular before IW.
Dwagin I always thought it was iconic
Q: "What is missing from their music?"
A: "John Williams."
that explains the Harry Potter music...
And Danny Elfman. They both used to be the kings of superheroes theme (Superman, Tim Burton's Batman, and Sam Raimi's Spiderman). Now, Marvel just used Danny Elfman as secondary composer for Age of Ultron and ditched Alan Silvestri who composed a memorable theme for the first Avengers movie. It's a good thing Alan will be back for Infinity Wars.
age of ultron has just a messy and unbalanced score. not possible to listen to.
It's very possible to listen to for me, moreso then something like WS. A lot of the score is actually very good.
yes.
Thanks to you, marvel upped their music game from Thor Ragnarok!!
Currently the Loki series is streaming and the soundtrack is amazing!!
yeah, marvel know this video existed (why did marvel didn't pay this man millions)
proof : www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/thor-ragnarok-composer-acknowledges-marvel-scores-sound-same-1054503/
Loki has my favorite soundtrack of any TV show, ever. Both Seasons 1 and 2 are amazing. Natalie Holt should win ALL THE THINGS!!!
This just further proves that John Williams is a god amongst men. Everyone can hum his themes.
Hans Zimmer as well.
BWOA!
The superhero nerd I love Zimmer's scores as well but trying to argue that Williams' scores sound identical and Zimmer's don't is a bit ridiculous.
+Evoo nah Han Zimmer is well known but it's not like people leave the theater humming his tunes
Hans Zimmer is the *problem* here. This entire video, without mentioning his name beyond a credit for a temp track, laid out exactly what's wrong with what he does.
I found it funny how they all sang the Star Wars theme in different keys, but James Bond and Harry Potter were are the same.
Came here after watching the new Infinity Wars trailer ;) The Avengers theme will rise again :D
KALIMAindia i have some bad news...
stephen
They only used the same ol avengers theme & black panthers motif. Tthattss alll😞 & don't get me started on homecomings shitty repetitive soundtrack
How is it rising again the theme is exactly the same
You still cant remember it off the top of your head
Yeah lol the soundtrack in Infinity War was completely unremarkable.
The Avengers theme is the only one I could remember, because it's been used more than once.
Thank you!! I had these thoughts in the back of my mind and I just assumed I was crazy for disliking the blandness of the Marvel film's music. Thank you for making this video, it's so inspiring!
Iron Man 3, The Avengers, Winter Soldier, and Civil War are ones that I can remember with more clarity than the rest. Winter Soldier and Civil War were to my small knowledge in this wide world fairly original. Whenever I heard the theme in Winter Soldier, I was like this man cannot be stopped. In Civil War, the horns helped carry done if those epic scenes.
Exactly! The Cap and Avengers movies have fantastic scores.
+HoustonProductions1 Yeah, and Iron Man 3, say what you will, it had theme music. Civil War had that song, Civil War (still gives me chills), and Winter Soldier had the song, Winter Soldier.
Yeah, I love the Winter Soldier score. I was kinda bummed that Henry Jackman changed the main theme for Civil War. You can hear hints of the old one at times, but it's just not enough. Nothing beats the all -music scene of Bucky dragging Steve out of the Potomac.
I like the first Thor's score too. Complemented the grandiose Shakespearean aspects well.
The score for the first Captain America was corny as hell but fit the movie's no-irony, what you see is what you get approach perfectly.
Agree completely. The musical choices when Captain America is fighting Spider-man are particularly ... odd
A video every three month is just torture. Pls make more videos
He needs money to make more vids, so if you have spare money, go support his patreon. I would, but I don't have money :(
He used to have an average of a video every three weeks.
do you want to wait three months for a masterpeice or have a lot of duds?
He makes 7k per video, you know.
samturret did you also take half of the money away since you have to share ad revenue with Google? And don't forget tax.
The biggest problem isn't the temp tracking (even Star Wars was temp tracked), its the lack of continuity. How are we supposed to identify a theme with Iron Man when it changes every time??
titanic and inception's scores are amazing and iconic, both are stand alone movies
Titanic became memorable because it's song was played on the radio NONSTOP in the 90s.
Inception became memorable because it infected every trailer post 2010.
Repetition.
+Alda Balda They wouldn't have been put in the positions to be repeated constantly if they were bland and unoriginal.
I think both Titanic and Inception are quite bland and unoriginal, it was the repetition that drove them into our heads.
exactly what i thought....you have new theme for every movie...and they are not classic movies like james bond or star wars....btw you have their theme songs on the beginning of the movie, in "intro credits"....same with harry potter, every movie started with that...for marvel movies? their themes are usually in the most epic scenes....avengers, antman, dr. strange....civil war....and then in credits......and that's why i can "sing" or "humm" or "whistle" those theme songs....they were so cool that i had to buy them via net and download them to my phone....avengers, ant-man, dr. strange, guardians of the galaxy....because i had them stucked in my head together with their scenes from the movies...i've read somewhere regarding theme to Star Wars: Rogue One....that it was awful and not original....and i think it is complete opposite...you can feel Star Wars from it, but it is not THAT famous star wars theme song....and i love soundtracks, that's maybe why i can name some of those themes....actually, ironman 2 is probably the only one i don't know....
btw one more example....iron-man 3 starts with eiffel 65 - blue...gotg had "hooked on the feeling", etc. ...the first scene where you can actually hear gotg theme is the prison break from Kyln....or actually that scene, when they are standing together as "a team" next to that control tower in prison....but whatever....i usually can't stop listening their score on youtube at least 2 weeks after movie came out :)
I never noticed this. I never even knew about temp music. Now I’m hearing it in most movies I’m seeing. This video altered my brain chemistry. So well done.
While I agree on the most part, I feel like this video treated a bit unfairly the music of the MCU, you never really once talked about the "BIG" moment in those films like the 360° shot of the Avengers where their theme really shines, or some scene in Ant Man where the score has that Cuban/Heist sound to it or even the first Iron Man score by Ramin Djawadi and Tom Morello that made for a very original sounding soundtrack IMO.
You have to take in mind that there has been 7 Harry Potter film, 7 Star Wars films, a lot more James Bond films that uses and re uses the same themes over and over to the point that yes everybody remembers it while the MCU is not a continuous saga like Star Wars but it's made of several films that wouldn't really flow together with the same soundtrack. You wouldn't put the Iron Man 1 soundtrack with Civil War for example. So yeah, there's been 13 or 14 MARVEL movies so far but only a portion of them carries the same themes (for exemple The Winter Soldier/Civil War or Avengers/Age of Ultron). It creates less opportunity for the public to remembers the music from one or two particular films against the same music and themes throughout every single Harry Potter/Star Wars/James Bond film. It would be like asking people if they know the music from The Dark Knight, Mad Max, Blade Runner, Tron Legacy, Alien, etc....
And what about the fact that John Williams literally lifted some music from the Planet Suite composed by Gustav Holst. Isn't that playing safe ? Or the fact that you could seemlessly switch between some Star Wars theme and Indiana Jones theme without noticing ? Even tho I agree with most of the arguments and especially the problems we have today in the industry regarding scores, I feel like you're just looking at one side of a coin.
I totally agree with you, pal !
Also I'd say that the Avenger's theme is highly recognizable and easy to sing...
Fanboy.
If you want me to being honest, aside from the fact that BvS might be bad, it only take one scene (of Wonder Woman introduction in the final act) to stick. Because of what? Good theme.
I must admit that combination of the expertise (Hans Zimmer and Junkie XL), and freedom of having a RISK, is a bold choice that made something.
Honestly, I have a big tendency to get movie music stucked in my head very easily. I could sing most notable musical themes from most movies I've seen over the years, even ones I only saw once over 10 years ago. But I had to search the Avengers theme because I can't remember it at all, despite having seen all the MCU movies (I'm listening to it now for the second time as I type this, and it still doesn't ring a bell).
I have seen every marvel movie and even after thinking about it I cant think of a single song outside of like Guardians of the Galaxy which is using licensed music. As to your comments your kind of full of shit. I still remember at least 3 songs from "Drive" and I only watched it twice. I remember "Jurassic Parks" theme very clearly even when there was only the one film. I know the "Stranger Things" Themes song after hearing it like 4 times. I remember both the "Back to the Future" Theme music as well as "Indiana Jones" and those were just 3 movies each and I haven't seen Back to the future in more than a decade. "Ghostbusters", "Mission Impossible", "Pirates of the Caribbean", "Batman" both the 89 and Nolan films, "ET", "The Good, The Bad, The ugly", and "Inception" Most People who have seen these films can give you their themes. Yet even after watching what? 14 Marvel movies not only can I not come up with any but neither could those guys being interviewed? The spiderman theme is from the 90s animated show with a camio in the movie from a radio.
Basically your full of shit dude a lot of the movies i listed were one offs.
One memorable soundtrack I remember from newer films:
BRAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Nicolas Pratt I didn’t realise pacific rim was MCU
@@pishwa it's part of the secret wars 😛
@@pishwa you didnt know that Stark industries helped build the Jaegers? Why do you think Gypsy kinda looks like him. Hulkbuster was a Jaeger prototype
Waaaaaahhhhumpppf - Hans Zimmer
Here's an alternative for filmmakers who want to avoid "temp-love" and create bold original scores: Work with your composer BEFORE you start filming or even while you are writing like Leone with Morricone or Nolan with Zimmer on Interstellar. It's probably the only way Zimmer was able to throw out the big drums finally.
Add Fincher to that list!
Reznor often starts on his soundtracks before seeing any footage
Yes! I was thinking of a third filmmaker/composer team but I couldn't remember. And don't forget Atticus Ross!
My thoughts exactly.
I agree but theres nothing wrong with Zimmer's drums bruh
Han & Leia, Opening Theme, Lukes Theme, Duel of the Fates. Iconic.
Superman theme, Batman theme from 89 and TDK trilogy, iconic.
Harry and Hogwarts themes iconic.
No one knows what Iron Man, Cpt. America, or Thor's theme music is. Maybe now in 2023 people could give you the Avengers theme after its over playing in IW & Endgame.. but it really is telling. Great video.
Normies could not tell you the Dark Knight theme, and probably not even the Superman one. The Star Wars themes have been reused countlessly in ads, games, trailers, referenced in TV show and other movies, and have been used throughout the franchise. Same for the rest of John Williams' music. In Star Wars' case, those memorable themes were played out with zero dialogue because of the specific storytelling that was being told in the edit by George Lucas' ex Wife. Those themes are pushing 50 years old.
The Harry Potter theme is memorable because it played at the start and end of 8 movies, and on every single Harry Potter ad including TV spots and channel Idents when they play on TV, and in the menus of DVDs and Blu Rays.
The MCU didn't assign a single theme to their franchise, and they changed composers on sequels, meaning new themes and new musical styles because who wants to work on the sequel to a successful film and wants to copy what the person before you did?
The Avengers theme and the Captain America motif stuck around because Alan Sylvestri scored First Avenger, Avengers, Infinity War & Endgame. He has a very specific writing style just like John Williams does. Where Williams favours Marches, Fanfares, high strings and lots of mid to high range Brass leading, usually focusing on Trumpet and French Horn (Star Wars main theme, Jurassic Park, Imperial March, Superman, Indiana Jones), Alan Sylvestri splits his focus between letting the strings use the full register, and using lots of low to mid range brass that blasts just like John Williams does, but goes for more use of Trombone and Euphonium.
People have had 45 years of bombardment of Star Wars and Superman's themes, and only 12 years of Avengers. Ask again in 30 years who can hum a piece from the MCU and you'll definitely get the Avengers theme. Hell, we have that already from the same composer with the Back to the Future theme. 3 movies, it plays at least twice in all of them, AND Ready Player One uses music that sounds similar to it when the DeLorean is being used.
The guy at the end singing the Spiderman theme was worth it.