Oh, man. I'll be 64 at the end of this month and I have much information & so many thoughts on this topic can't be covered in comments. I'll just make a few notes and if any of you want to confer further with me, just let me know... 1. Can a 55-yr old start at 1800 and hope to reach 2200? Yes. Absolutely. And I'm on a personal quest to show that a 64-yr old can do it. But there's no short-cutting the amount of time and "purposeful" (or "deep") training required to do so. 2. Is 28 the actual peak? No. Like all such statistics, it's stated average from some (undefined) range of ages. It's not like there's some science saying that at exactly age 28 some specific changes occur in the brain that initiates a performance decline. And as such, this average is influenced by many factors. Lot's more to share on this topic. At one point, general life expectancy was many years less than it is today. Did humans suddenly become more physically viable? No. Health and safety factors improved. Before Tom Brady, the "peak" age for NFL QBs was somewhat lower than it is today, simply because Brady playing at peak performance well into his 40's is raising that average. All this is to say that 28 is not some physically defined precipice demarking a decline in performance. It just happens to be the age where, based on a number of factors in addition to "aging", a recent sampling of players' reached their peak rating 3. On looking at a position one day and forgetting most of what you thought about it a day or two later. This is confusing short-term memory with long-term memory. To transfer info from short-term to long-term memory requires repetition over time with sleep cycles in between. Can talk more to this as well. 4. Should David give up his aggressive/tactical openings: Not if he's willing to train to play them at whatever level he's comfortable with. But David will need to revert back to putting in the time and training effort that he put in when he played these openings at his peak. You can NEVER just assume that you reached a certain level in any skill and it will remain there without repeated training of that skill. The old musician quote "If I miss one day of practice, I notice it. If I miss two days of practice, my wife notices. If I miss three days of practice, the whole world notices!" is a truism that can't be ignored. 5. Just to be sure everyone knows, Adderall (and similar drugs like Ritalin) IS banned by FIDE. Caffeine is not. 6. IMO, too much performance declined is attributed to "aging" instead of "maturing". "Aging" implies come kind of inherent systemic physical and/or cognitive decline whereas I define "maturing" to be the social & familial evolution of one's life. Comparing the performance of a 25-yr old fresh out of school with very low financial requirements and no personal/familial responsibilities to the performance of a 40-yr old with a wife, two-kids, mortgage, and starting to think about retirement plans and then attributing the difference in their performances solely to "aging" is ignoring a whole range of other factors. 7. Is it harder to improve as you get older? Yes, definitely. The science behind neuroplasty and learning is well established. Does "aging" alone generally cause a decline in general cognitive skills. Yes, I believe it does, but not nealy to the extent that many would have us believe. Elite 2800 players may find that after 50 they can't sustain 2800-level performance, but I believe that, with sufficient training, they can sustain maybe 2700+ level performance. It's maintaining (and perhaps increasing) the necessary level of training throughout one's career that I feel is the biggest challenge older players have. Again, anyone who wants to discuss further can reach out to me.
point 6 is a HUGE slam dunk to me. The interview with that guy from the "perpetual chess" podcast where they discuss what it takes to reach NM level, the perpetual chess guy keeps saying that he's not willing to discuss games with others and not willing to annotate games and not willing to play very many games all because he doesn't have time because he would rather put that time toward hanging with his kids. So that guy, who is severely limiting his time commitment, will NOT see the rating progression of a 25 year old who can easily put in 60 hrs a week into chess doing all nighters with redbull. That is the biggest reason is time constraints of older adults and their priorities being a bit more balanced. If they can creatively find more time to put in, they can progress just as well as the youngsters in theory or at least close the learning ability gap alot.
About a year ago I started a chess group in the retirement community where I live. The age of the group ranges from the 60s upward to one occasional member who is 100! About half learned a year ago and the others have played most or all of their life. All are journeymen players, with two who are rated by games are 1200 (a 90-year-old) and 1900 (a 92-year-old). We haven’t been around long enough to observe deterioration in playing ability, but the two best players are in mid-60s and low 90s, respectively. My only point is that REALLY old dudes and chicks (our group is almost half and half) can still play competently, thoroughly enjoying the game and still seeking excellence in their game.
In amateur players my opinion is that your peak potential elo decreases with age. But that doesnt mean you cant improve massively, because you havent invested the effort to reach your peak
At 58, my brain doesn't work nearly as well as it used to. I think I was around 50 when the loss became hard to ignore. So far the degradation has been slow and steady, and it becomes most apparent when I'm tired. Pro Tip for Jesse: Sleep is EXTREMELY important for old farts! Get to bed by 9~10, or suffer the consequences! ;)
Hello everyone, I'm a chess player who has decided to start playing more seriously at my 27. I can't give any advice to Jesse and company about chess, because I'm around 1900-2000 fide strength, but I can contribute talking about health and creatine since I have studied about nutrition and I'm a personal trainer, among other things. Creatine is a metabolite, natural created by our body. Also it's consumed trough meat. First of all, is not a drug, nor nothing weird! Actually is one of the most studied and safe supplements out there. The thing is that supplementing with monohydrate creatine (3-5 grams per day) increase the physical strength and stamina around a 15%. Creatine is acummulated in our muscle (actually, you will notice your muscles growing up, this is not "muscle" but creatine keep more glycogen inside of your muscle) so the "effects" come after 1-2 weeks, and disappear after 1-2 weeks without it. As Jesse rightly said, it increases like an 8% our brain cognition, but this percentage is more obvious on people who doesn't eat meat normally (vegans) or in older person. This means, if you are 25 years old who eat meat normally, you will not almost notice creatine "mentally speaking" (believe me you will physically at the gym). Creatine is much more complex and you can research about it. On the other hand, creatine might give 2 slightly side effects, which are lose of hair, and prostate inflammation. It's not always, it's uncommon, but it might happen sometimes, you just would have to readjust the dosis or just quit it. Nothing grave or to worry about. Talking about habits, lack of stress/anxiety, good sleep, strength/cardio training, and good diet, are the fundamental basis for a optimized brain cognition, I would add meditation too (another fascinating topic we could talk about for hours) About nutrition, a very very important thing. Obviously, junk food, smoking and drinking is not good. Is not necessary to do a full keto diet, but... low carb diet is one of the keys for a proper brain function! As humans, we have never been eating as much glucose as nowadays, our environment was quite different and consequently excess of carbs intoxicate our brain. Also, intermittent fasting will DRAMATICALLY improve your brain function. 16-8 is good. But it's a process, you get use to it. Finally, I wanted to recommend you to listen the podcast/TH-cam of this man, Andrew Huberman. He talks about learning, brain health, productivity, rest, impact of our habits on our brain... and more interesting stuff, you will love it! I tried to summarize everything as briefly as possible, if you have any doubts you can ask me. And sorry for my English, I'm not native speaker :D Thanks for reading!
As far as forgetting things I studied this is where really embracing Jesse advice has helped me. I annotate the concepts in games with words which uses a different type of memory. I play the games out with similar and higher rated training partners. I teach the concepts to my lower rated free student friend. Playing training games from my opening tabia and analyzing the games has been way better for learning the openings than memorizing lines. I embraced the mindset that I need to be able to teach the class not just pass the test. We can all remember in school doing just enough to pass the test. This doesn’t cut it in chess if you truly want to remember you need to be able to teach the class which likely will involve repeating the concept more than once for most players.
I’m almost 60. My endgames are improving as long as I consistently practice. I play way better in the mornings than evenings. My calculation sucks compared to 30 years ago. If it’s a one day Swiss I have to take a last round bye. Today instead of a Lisitsin Gambit against the Dutch I now play into the mainline. I’m playing 1 Nf3 systems instead of my old 1 e4 book. Yes and I blunder like a mother hubbard when I get tired and I’m always tired. 😀
The point that you play better in morning than evening is an interesting observation. one of the coach I was talking to before a OTB tournament said - if possible try to sleep between rounds. Our brain works more actively after we get up fresh from sleep.
I am 56, and I play chess since I´m 12 years old, and my peak was Elo 2325 at an age of 28. 🙂 Afterwards I paused about 10 years completly because of Job and Family and now I come back since about 10 Years 🙂 What I can determine: My knowledge is much higher since then, and also my positional play, but I lack completly when it comes to remeber the positions and moves of the game I play at the moment. I remember when I won a tournament, even a rapid tournemant at the age of 25, I could remember every single game. Today I struggle to remember the game I just played. Chess is brutal when it comes to this. In my normal life I see no problems in getting older.
I can relate so much! However, I always wonder if I don’t remember the exact ideas in a position but I have the positional sense of what plan should I choose…. Will I be able to still maintain an edge or will it still boil down to my database of ideas??
A lot of excellent points made by the dojo here (and in the comments!). Personally, I think David's "decline" in sharp openings has a lot more to do with consistent practice on OTB games rather than the vague aging concern. He's said himself that when he was younger, he loves tournaments with good food, and now he wants a tournament with good childcare options. Sounds like he's got more on his mind distracting him now that he's older :P Thanks for the insightful discussion.
Such an interesting discussion! I have just hit 40 and I am regularly training and learning. But blundering in good position and under time pressure is something I am battling with as well.
you shouldn't be under time pressure if playing 90 minute games per side for 40 moves. And games shorter than that you should be avoiding in general when training seriously
@@artbyrobot1 Ha ha let’s see…. 😀 My coach - A respectable GM from India- says the focus should be in understanding and learning the game. Rest of the things will just happen when it has to! So not thinking about titles at this moment. 😀
A very apropo topic, and i really like that you can use this format to discuss overarching issues like this from different vantage points. Its a strength of the Dojo. What are your opinions about Chess960 as a means to enjoy chess while avoiding the deficits of memory in regular chess (as kind of a leveler between younger and older players)?
Creatin has been the probable cause of many sports busts due to contaminated supplements. Caffeine WAS controlled but that was reversed as it's a common and traditional component of diet. Caffeine in endurance sports works best if you eliminate it, then have caffeine in competition. I found for cycling this would make me light headed, not sure if that would work in chess
Physics also. If you haven't done your major discoveries by age 30 it is never going to happen. It makes sense when you think about it because that is when your overall IQ will peak.
@@executivelifehacks6747 Hmmm not really so sure on that eg) John Stewart Bell 1928, Bell's Theorem published 1964 a good few years after the deadline. I am pretty sure there's many others, Physics is more
To Jesse's point about chance - I attended Cognitive Rounds at a Rehab hospital for years. A clinician would ask the neurologist whether drug X (often some kind of neurotransmitter) would help a particular patient. Most often his answer was, Try it and see if it works. The brain is so complicated, there are so many variables, and people are different. But be careful, certain supplement recommendations turn out to have been harmful. Vitamin A being an example.
I will be 62 in a few days. Fatigue is my biggest enemy when playing OTB. It exhausts me to play more than one long game in a day. Interestingly, I still play the Najdorf as Black and I will play against it as White, but I have switched to 1.Nf3 as White for its flexibility. Most of my life I played Fischer's "Best by test." 1.e4, but I dislike playing against the Caro and the Winawer French. So, I play 1.Nf3 and switch to an open Sicilian if my opponent follows up with 1...c5. Most of the time I end playing against a QGD, Slav or a KID type of setup, but the delayed d4 has its advantages. So, is a setup with Nf3/c4/e3 and usually b3/Bb2 (to avoid the Caro and a Winawer French) an "old man's" opening?
You guys left out maybe the most important example of a very strong player improving as they get older. I am speaking, of course, about Aron Nimzovitch, who kept getting stronger right up to his premature death (from cancer if I'm not mistaken). This shows that we can improve and not just maintain. Knowledge is power, and if you keep learning and developing finer and finer distinctions, you get smarter and should be able to improve.
Doesn't it also depends on lifestyle? What if you eat bad, smoke weed, drink a lot, don't sleep enough untill age 36? And then you start living super healthy, work out, sleep well, meditate etc... Then you could be fitter and more clear minded then you ever were and als perfrom/learn way better. I've read it is very common that a lot of people after age 30 suddenly 'switch' to a much more healthy lifestyle and work out because they realise they can't continue their bad lifestyle. So at age 40 they are way more fit than they were in their party'ing age. Guess your brains are also way more healthy then. Exercise for at least 150 minutes a weak also improves brain function with memory and concentration.
The neuropsychological tests start dropping off a cliff at 40. The higher you start the easier the fall. And for older specialized memory - like research citations or maybe chess openings or endgame knowledge learned when young - it might be difficult to detect from the outside. IIRC in The Short Introduction to Intelligence published by Oxford has a good chapter on Aging and Intelligence.
@@testsubjectzero8918 It's above. Ian J. Deary, Intelligence A Very Short Introduction, Second Edition, 2020, Oxford University Press. Chapter 2, What happens to intelligence as we grow older? The book is a decent summary, but the basic data has been known for at least forty years. I worked in the field and around 40 I started noticing memory issues. I asked my older colleagues. Oh, yes, we've all been through it. * My boss had a phenomenal memory for citing the literature. My memory is very good, but without that scaffolding I was like David trying to remember Jesse's lessons. Obviously the decline varies in different people. But broadly speaking we all share it. The book points out that your starting point matters. Which is why it may be unnoticed by others.
Jesse was talking about some studies that he would link to the video, I do not see them anywhere and would be interested in reading those, can someone help (maybe the dojo)?
The reason people discourage adult improvers, telling them that they will never achieve a certain goal (2200 elo, a title, etc) is actually very simple: ego. They themselves failed and need to believe such goals are *impossible* - otherwise, it's their own shortcoming alone. When someone else proves them wrong, it shatters their narrative that *they could have been great, if only they started earlier* - which they used as a crutch to justify giving up. Saying that they people discourage improvers to help them - "dissuade them from snake oil" - is rather naive. If that were the case, they would make alternative suggestions, not merely nasty comments.
I officially announce that I reject aging as it pertains to mental strength for chess players even if that means blatant refusing all evidence and science. I dislike the concept so much that I simply reject it outright. I officially announce to everyone that if you use age as an excuse you are just lazy and to get tough and be young minded. This is a decision. Everyone at all ages can become a GM as well with ease within just a couple years if you decide to but you can pace yourself and casually make it with 4-5 years too if you are really lazy. This applies to everyone no exceptions. Leave your excuses in the garbage dump. Get big. Go big or go home. I don't want to hear all this negative trash. I reject it all. I already retired physical sports due to aging, now you tell me I'm too old to play chess and become a GM? So I can't be competitive physically or mentally then? So I should just be a loser? NAH! I'm rejecting this all the way. A brain is a brain. Age is a number. Everybody go get GM or you are just lazy.
Just a note: someone who takes creatine in bodybuilding is not juicy. Creatine is a natural supplement that helps you get improved performances in high stress situation, but it doesn't imply muscle growth by default. So Jesse you can sleep well, you're natty brah!
Two chess books are related to aging... * The Moves That Matter: A Chess Grandmaster on the Game of Life (2019). Bloomsbury Publishing (Turns out Rowson his his peak rating, 2599, at 28.) * Sadler, Matthew; Regan, Natasha (2016). Chess For Life. Gambit.
Oh, man. I'll be 64 at the end of this month and I have much information & so many thoughts on this topic can't be covered in comments. I'll just make a few notes and if any of you want to confer further with me, just let me know...
1. Can a 55-yr old start at 1800 and hope to reach 2200? Yes. Absolutely. And I'm on a personal quest to show that a 64-yr old can do it. But there's no short-cutting the amount of time and "purposeful" (or "deep") training required to do so.
2. Is 28 the actual peak? No. Like all such statistics, it's stated average from some (undefined) range of ages. It's not like there's some science saying that at exactly age 28 some specific changes occur in the brain that initiates a performance decline. And as such, this average is influenced by many factors. Lot's more to share on this topic. At one point, general life expectancy was many years less than it is today. Did humans suddenly become more physically viable? No. Health and safety factors improved. Before Tom Brady, the "peak" age for NFL QBs was somewhat lower than it is today, simply because Brady playing at peak performance well into his 40's is raising that average. All this is to say that 28 is not some physically defined precipice demarking a decline in performance. It just happens to be the age where, based on a number of factors in addition to "aging", a recent sampling of players' reached their peak rating
3. On looking at a position one day and forgetting most of what you thought about it a day or two later. This is confusing short-term memory with long-term memory. To transfer info from short-term to long-term memory requires repetition over time with sleep cycles in between. Can talk more to this as well.
4. Should David give up his aggressive/tactical openings: Not if he's willing to train to play them at whatever level he's comfortable with. But David will need to revert back to putting in the time and training effort that he put in when he played these openings at his peak. You can NEVER just assume that you reached a certain level in any skill and it will remain there without repeated training of that skill. The old musician quote "If I miss one day of practice, I notice it. If I miss two days of practice, my wife notices. If I miss three days of practice, the whole world notices!" is a truism that can't be ignored.
5. Just to be sure everyone knows, Adderall (and similar drugs like Ritalin) IS banned by FIDE. Caffeine is not.
6. IMO, too much performance declined is attributed to "aging" instead of "maturing". "Aging" implies come kind of inherent systemic physical and/or cognitive decline whereas I define "maturing" to be the social & familial evolution of one's life. Comparing the performance of a 25-yr old fresh out of school with very low financial requirements and no personal/familial responsibilities to the performance of a 40-yr old with a wife, two-kids, mortgage, and starting to think about retirement plans and then attributing the difference in their performances solely to "aging" is ignoring a whole range of other factors.
7. Is it harder to improve as you get older? Yes, definitely. The science behind neuroplasty and learning is well established. Does "aging" alone generally cause a decline in general cognitive skills. Yes, I believe it does, but not nealy to the extent that many would have us believe. Elite 2800 players may find that after 50 they can't sustain 2800-level performance, but I believe that, with sufficient training, they can sustain maybe 2700+ level performance. It's maintaining (and perhaps increasing) the necessary level of training throughout one's career that I feel is the biggest challenge older players have.
Again, anyone who wants to discuss further can reach out to me.
Great comment. Lots of food for thought. Good luck on your journey to 2200.
Thank you ☺️. Please don't give up. Let's keep trying.
point 6 is a HUGE slam dunk to me. The interview with that guy from the "perpetual chess" podcast where they discuss what it takes to reach NM level, the perpetual chess guy keeps saying that he's not willing to discuss games with others and not willing to annotate games and not willing to play very many games all because he doesn't have time because he would rather put that time toward hanging with his kids. So that guy, who is severely limiting his time commitment, will NOT see the rating progression of a 25 year old who can easily put in 60 hrs a week into chess doing all nighters with redbull. That is the biggest reason is time constraints of older adults and their priorities being a bit more balanced. If they can creatively find more time to put in, they can progress just as well as the youngsters in theory or at least close the learning ability gap alot.
About a year ago I started a chess group in the retirement community where I live. The age of the group ranges from the 60s upward to one occasional member who is 100! About half learned a year ago and the others have played most or all of their life. All are journeymen players, with two who are rated by games are 1200 (a 90-year-old) and 1900 (a 92-year-old). We haven’t been around long enough to observe deterioration in playing ability, but the two best players are in mid-60s and low 90s, respectively. My only point is that REALLY old dudes and chicks (our group is almost half and half) can still play competently, thoroughly enjoying the game and still seeking excellence in their game.
In amateur players my opinion is that your peak potential elo decreases with age. But that doesnt mean you cant improve massively, because you havent invested the effort to reach your peak
At 58, my brain doesn't work nearly as well as it used to. I think I was around 50 when the loss became hard to ignore. So far the degradation has been slow and steady, and it becomes most apparent when I'm tired. Pro Tip for Jesse: Sleep is EXTREMELY important for old farts! Get to bed by 9~10, or suffer the consequences! ;)
As you age, your chess games may decline but your enjoyment for it can always improve.
Hello everyone, I'm a chess player who has decided to start playing more seriously at my 27. I can't give any advice to Jesse and company about chess, because I'm around 1900-2000 fide strength, but I can contribute talking about health and creatine since I have studied about nutrition and I'm a personal trainer, among other things.
Creatine is a metabolite, natural created by our body. Also it's consumed trough meat. First of all, is not a drug, nor nothing weird! Actually is one of the most studied and safe supplements out there. The thing is that supplementing with monohydrate creatine (3-5 grams per day) increase the physical strength and stamina around a 15%. Creatine is acummulated in our muscle (actually, you will notice your muscles growing up, this is not "muscle" but creatine keep more glycogen inside of your muscle) so the "effects" come after 1-2 weeks, and disappear after 1-2 weeks without it.
As Jesse rightly said, it increases like an 8% our brain cognition, but this percentage is more obvious on people who doesn't eat meat normally (vegans) or in older person. This means, if you are 25 years old who eat meat normally, you will not almost notice creatine "mentally speaking" (believe me you will physically at the gym). Creatine is much more complex and you can research about it. On the other hand, creatine might give 2 slightly side effects, which are lose of hair, and prostate inflammation. It's not always, it's uncommon, but it might happen sometimes, you just would have to readjust the dosis or just quit it. Nothing grave or to worry about.
Talking about habits, lack of stress/anxiety, good sleep, strength/cardio training, and good diet, are the fundamental basis for a optimized brain cognition, I would add meditation too (another fascinating topic we could talk about for hours)
About nutrition, a very very important thing. Obviously, junk food, smoking and drinking is not good. Is not necessary to do a full keto diet, but... low carb diet is one of the keys for a proper brain function! As humans, we have never been eating as much glucose as nowadays, our environment was quite different and consequently excess of carbs intoxicate our brain.
Also, intermittent fasting will DRAMATICALLY improve your brain function. 16-8 is good. But it's a process, you get use to it.
Finally, I wanted to recommend you to listen the podcast/TH-cam of this man, Andrew Huberman. He talks about learning, brain health, productivity, rest, impact of our habits on our brain... and more interesting stuff, you will love it!
I tried to summarize everything as briefly as possible, if you have any doubts you can ask me. And sorry for my English, I'm not native speaker :D
Thanks for reading!
Thanks for the great info.
As far as forgetting things I studied this is where really embracing Jesse advice has helped me.
I annotate the concepts in games with words which uses a different type of memory. I play the games out with similar and higher rated training partners. I teach the concepts to my lower rated free student friend.
Playing training games from my opening tabia and analyzing the games has been way better for learning the openings than memorizing lines.
I embraced the mindset that I need to be able to teach the class not just pass the test. We can all remember in school doing just enough to pass the test. This doesn’t cut it in chess if you truly want to remember you need to be able to teach the class which likely will involve repeating the concept more than once for most players.
"Just Keep Moving Forward. It's about how much you can get hit and keep moving Forward"
Rocky Balboa.
I’m almost 60. My endgames are improving as long as I consistently practice. I play way better in the mornings than evenings. My calculation sucks compared to 30 years ago. If it’s a one day Swiss I have to take a last round bye. Today instead of a Lisitsin Gambit against the Dutch I now play into the mainline. I’m playing 1 Nf3 systems instead of my old 1 e4 book. Yes and I blunder like a mother hubbard when I get tired and I’m always tired. 😀
The point that you play better in morning than evening is an interesting observation. one of the coach I was talking to before a OTB tournament said - if possible try to sleep between rounds. Our brain works more actively after we get up fresh from sleep.
I am 56, and I play chess since I´m 12 years old, and my peak was Elo 2325 at an age of 28. 🙂 Afterwards I paused about 10 years completly because of Job and Family and now I come back since about 10 Years 🙂 What I can determine: My knowledge is much higher since then, and also my positional play, but I lack completly when it comes to remeber the positions and moves of the game I play at the moment. I remember when I won a tournament, even a rapid tournemant at the age of 25, I could remember every single game. Today I struggle to remember the game I just played.
Chess is brutal when it comes to this. In my normal life I see no problems in getting older.
I can relate so much! However, I always wonder if I don’t remember the exact ideas in a position but I have the positional sense of what plan should I choose…. Will I be able to still maintain an edge or will it still boil down to my database of ideas??
A lot of excellent points made by the dojo here (and in the comments!). Personally, I think David's "decline" in sharp openings has a lot more to do with consistent practice on OTB games rather than the vague aging concern. He's said himself that when he was younger, he loves tournaments with good food, and now he wants a tournament with good childcare options. Sounds like he's got more on his mind distracting him now that he's older :P
Thanks for the insightful discussion.
I am 75 and still trying to improve.
Creatine has nootropic properties. It's a natural compound produced by your own liver. 5 grams a day are safe and recommended.
Such an interesting discussion! I have just hit 40 and I am regularly training and learning. But blundering in good position and under time pressure is something I am battling with as well.
you shouldn't be under time pressure if playing 90 minute games per side for 40 moves. And games shorter than that you should be avoiding in general when training seriously
@@artbyrobot1 Came out of the addiction of playing blitz on Lichess. That to an extent ruined my progress. Now a days I am only training for OTB.
@@RezaTamez Good choice! You will get way stronger so fast now. Get GM or go home imo.
@@artbyrobot1 Ha ha let’s see…. 😀 My coach - A respectable GM from India- says the focus should be in understanding and learning the game. Rest of the things will just happen when it has to! So not thinking about titles at this moment. 😀
@@RezaTamez I think it's just fun to always assume you'll get GM for sure even if it is based on no evidence just a made up assumption.
The dojo's thumbnail game keeps getting better and better! I found the topic both deeply fascinating and deeply depressing.
Enjoy the ride while you can! :)
A man's got to know his limitations. Part of life is understanding your strengths and weaknesses and playing accordingly.
A very apropo topic, and i really like that you can use this format to discuss overarching issues like this from different vantage points. Its a strength of the Dojo.
What are your opinions about Chess960 as a means to enjoy chess while avoiding the deficits of memory in regular chess (as kind of a leveler between younger and older players)?
It's said that mathematicians tend to do the original breakthrough work in their twenties and often dry up later.
Creatin has been the probable cause of many sports busts due to contaminated supplements.
Caffeine WAS controlled but that was reversed as it's a common and traditional component of diet.
Caffeine in endurance sports works best if you eliminate it, then have caffeine in competition. I found for cycling this would make me light headed, not sure if that would work in chess
Physics also. If you haven't done your major discoveries by age 30 it is never going to happen. It makes sense when you think about it because that is when your overall IQ will peak.
@@executivelifehacks6747 Hmmm not really so sure on that eg) John Stewart Bell 1928, Bell's Theorem published 1964 a good few years after the deadline. I am pretty sure there's many others, Physics is more
To Jesse's point about chance - I attended Cognitive Rounds at a Rehab hospital for years. A clinician would ask the neurologist whether drug X (often some kind of neurotransmitter) would help a particular patient. Most often his answer was, Try it and see if it works. The brain is so complicated, there are so many variables, and people are different. But be careful, certain supplement recommendations turn out to have been harmful. Vitamin A being an example.
That's a fire thumbnail, one may even say it's full of Life
I will be 62 in a few days. Fatigue is my biggest enemy when playing OTB. It exhausts me to play more than one long game in a day.
Interestingly, I still play the Najdorf as Black and I will play against it as White, but I have switched to 1.Nf3 as White for its flexibility. Most of my life I played Fischer's "Best by test." 1.e4, but I dislike playing against the Caro and the Winawer French. So, I play 1.Nf3 and switch to an open Sicilian if my opponent follows up with 1...c5. Most of the time I end playing against a QGD, Slav or a KID type of setup, but the delayed d4 has its advantages.
So, is a setup with Nf3/c4/e3 and usually b3/Bb2 (to avoid the Caro and a Winawer French) an "old man's" opening?
I would say "yes."
You guys left out maybe the most important example of a very strong player improving as they get older. I am speaking, of course, about Aron Nimzovitch, who kept getting stronger right up to his premature death (from cancer if I'm not mistaken). This shows that we can improve and not just maintain. Knowledge is power, and if you keep learning and developing finer and finer distinctions, you get smarter and should be able to improve.
It shows that Nimzo could do that.
Since I have so much to learn and improve aging doesn't really affects me. LOL
Doesn't it also depends on lifestyle? What if you eat bad, smoke weed, drink a lot, don't sleep enough untill age 36? And then you start living super healthy, work out, sleep well, meditate etc... Then you could be fitter and more clear minded then you ever were and als perfrom/learn way better. I've read it is very common that a lot of people after age 30 suddenly 'switch' to a much more healthy lifestyle and work out because they realise they can't continue their bad lifestyle. So at age 40 they are way more fit than they were in their party'ing age. Guess your brains are also way more healthy then.
Exercise for at least 150 minutes a weak also improves brain function with memory and concentration.
I love the thumbnail very silly what you did to Kostya and Pruess, but why didn't you do anything to kraai? :P
Hahaha
The neuropsychological tests start dropping off a cliff at 40. The higher you start the easier the fall. And for older specialized memory - like research citations or maybe chess openings or endgame knowledge learned when young - it might be difficult to detect from the outside. IIRC in The Short Introduction to Intelligence published by Oxford has a good chapter on Aging and Intelligence.
@@testsubjectzero8918 It's above. Ian J. Deary, Intelligence A Very Short Introduction, Second Edition, 2020, Oxford University Press. Chapter 2, What happens to intelligence as we grow older? The book is a decent summary, but the basic data has been known for at least forty years. I worked in the field and around 40 I started noticing memory issues. I asked my older colleagues. Oh, yes, we've all been through it.
*
My boss had a phenomenal memory for citing the literature. My memory is very good, but without that scaffolding I was like David trying to remember Jesse's lessons. Obviously the decline varies in different people. But broadly speaking we all share it. The book points out that your starting point matters. Which is why it may be unnoticed by others.
Can you be more specific about the "easy" French. Do you mean the exchange variation?
The thumb nail 😂
Creatine? Protein powder? Whaaaat...
_>
Time to mix it in with my coffee!
Jesse was talking about some studies that he would link to the video, I do not see them anywhere and would be interested in reading those, can someone help (maybe the dojo)?
thanks for the reminder!
38:20
can u guys talk about nofap and how it affects ur chess?
this would be hilarious
I am 25
i am 11 years old. is it too late to start chess to be good?
Nope! 🙂
The reason people discourage adult improvers, telling them that they will never achieve a certain goal (2200 elo, a title, etc) is actually very simple: ego. They themselves failed and need to believe such goals are *impossible* - otherwise, it's their own shortcoming alone. When someone else proves them wrong, it shatters their narrative that *they could have been great, if only they started earlier* - which they used as a crutch to justify giving up.
Saying that they people discourage improvers to help them - "dissuade them from snake oil" - is rather naive. If that were the case, they would make alternative suggestions, not merely nasty comments.
I officially announce that I reject aging as it pertains to mental strength for chess players even if that means blatant refusing all evidence and science. I dislike the concept so much that I simply reject it outright. I officially announce to everyone that if you use age as an excuse you are just lazy and to get tough and be young minded. This is a decision. Everyone at all ages can become a GM as well with ease within just a couple years if you decide to but you can pace yourself and casually make it with 4-5 years too if you are really lazy. This applies to everyone no exceptions. Leave your excuses in the garbage dump. Get big. Go big or go home. I don't want to hear all this negative trash. I reject it all. I already retired physical sports due to aging, now you tell me I'm too old to play chess and become a GM? So I can't be competitive physically or mentally then? So I should just be a loser? NAH! I'm rejecting this all the way. A brain is a brain. Age is a number. Everybody go get GM or you are just lazy.
Just a note: someone who takes creatine in bodybuilding is not juicy.
Creatine is a natural supplement that helps you get improved performances in high stress situation, but it doesn't imply muscle growth by default.
So Jesse you can sleep well, you're natty brah!
Aging sucks. Just don't do it.
Interesting video. Adderall is banned by FIDE.
Jessie, if you want to take creatine supplements please talk to your doctor first. It may be bad for your kidneys.
If creatine supplements were illegal you could eat a ton of red meat and fish. You're good Jesse!
Two chess books are related to aging...
*
The Moves That Matter: A Chess Grandmaster on the Game of Life (2019). Bloomsbury Publishing
(Turns out Rowson his his peak rating, 2599, at 28.)
*
Sadler, Matthew; Regan, Natasha (2016). Chess For Life. Gambit.
Agree!!! I loved Rowson's book, and now I'm working my way through Sadler's. Great recommendation!