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Trunks isn’ he almost went super saiyan 2 he knew could have killed cell he thought that form was the strongest / u don’t understand the saiyans for saying he’s the weakest
So a quick theory question: what if Vegeta went SS grade 3 when he used the final flash that Cell took head on? Hope to see a video on this. Love your content.
Man didn't need juice...man needed hetap! Kinda hard to get it in an apocalyptic future timeline and by the time he had travelled back in time he was too dumb to the godliness of that hetap
Simply put it, Vegeta is a shit training partner, a shit father and a shit teacher at least in the cell arc. Trunks was trained by a Gohan who never trained seriously again after the 6 months he spent with piccolo in the sayain saga just preparing him to fight in the first place. Since I doubt he would train after Goku died if he knew there was no threat coming and no one was forcing him to train. So Gohan couldn't find a way to train trunks nor himself to a good enough level that would have allowed them to beat the androids by themselves. He comes to the present and is forced to train with vegeta who by all accounts did not train with trunks on their first time in the chamber at all and didn't even bother to enter with him on Vegeta's second journey inside the chamber, that's on top of Vegeta not even being that good at energy control at that point in the series, all he knew was train hard and get stronger which is probably why even with a whole extra year he couldn't figure out grade 4 even though Goku had explained it to him as soon as he got out of the chamber. Since trunks had no proper guidance or training partners he couldn't go as far as Gohan someone with similar potential. If trunks had gone in that chamber with anyone aside from Vegeta be it Goku or even piccolo, the martial arts guidance would have accelerated his progress exponentially to the point that with his increased motivation his power would probably surpass Goku and even Gohan's with a few months in the chamber with piccolo. This is proven when future shin in the super manga trains trunks on his planet for a while to the point that he after accessing ssj2 is able to kill a Debora who as about 20 years on the original version we saw meaning he could be much stronger than the present one from the Buu arc. Trunks after finally gaining a true master goes onto push the ssj2 form so far it can rival ssj3 Goku after all the training advantages he has had from training in the other world to training with whis and the god ritual.
The only reason trunks is weak is solely due to plot. Gohan did the stupidest thing manga wise by going to face the androids instead of training trunks who became a super saiyan. Worse due to bad writing trunks didn’t go ssj2 off the rage of gohan dying and the fact he’s responsible for cell being here but ofc akira wanted gohan to beat the villain so he had to put in plot conveniences.
Yeah, training with Vegeta was the worst mistake Trunks ever made. Not only is his father not that great at training (as evidenced by how long it took him to even match Goku), but he probably held himself back so that his father's pride wouldn't be wounded. In fact, one could even argue that Vegeta purposely sabotaged his son's training so that he *wouldn't* become stronger than him. We can't really know, since we didn't see what his training was, but it certainly makes sense his his character at the time.
People forget that trunks is litterally a CHILD, and vegeta has decades of fighting experience. Trunks trained with one person with one arm for a few months and then continued to narrowly escape death a few times from the androids. He has no fighting experience. He beat Freiza just by being a super sayian alone.
Trunks is still an MVP for what he did to Frieza. He got dealt a bad hand. If he was trained by Goku, he would be far stronger. Vegeta was not able to train him. Its impressive trunks even kept up with them just through observation.
I wouldn't say he is mvp for what he did to Frieza. The only reason Goku didn't show up and do the same to him, is because as he stated Trunks showed up so he waited to see how it played out instead of using Instant Transmission. Bulma is MVP for building the time machine so he could go back in time, preventing the Death of the Z fighters. lol
You are missing the point that Trunkz was never willing to power up pass the point of his father. Including in Grade 2 form while his father 'Vegeta' was conscious and aware.
Basically Trunks wasn’t stronger than Vegeta due to them having the same form, Vegeta simply didn’t use the form ‘cause it had too many flaws. Trunks was not stronger than Vegeta as grade 2 either.
This really isn’t hard to understand. He was raised in a post apocalyptic society without anyone to train with. His only trainer Gohan was killed before he even became a super saiyan. He returns home after cell is destroyed in the past timeline to a once again “lonely society” of not having anyone to help push his powers higher, until he meets the supreme Kai, kabito, and faces dabura.
@@DRANKWORLD it's not even as strong as 2. Not sure where you guys thought this. It's probably not even stronger than grade 4. Let alone Gohan. It's probably not even stronger than Cell. All we know is it's stronger than grade 2 and suppressed cell..even the cell that fought Goku was stronger before he powered up against Gohan.
Less training and less experience. Gohan had been trained by Piccolo and Goku. Goku is Goku. Vegeta is Vegeta. Trunks was trained by a Gohan that hadn’t been trained by Goku and hadn’t unlocked super saiyan until he was much older. Trunks also had very limited battle experience. Future Gohan was chasing Yardrat Goku how many years later? Even if Trunks managed to pass that, he’d still be weaker than Yardrat Goku. Due to what I said above. Vegeta went super saiyan and was stronger than Yardrat Goku. I’ve always looked at Trunks like this: He’s the super saiyan Vegeta would’ve been if he transformed on Namek.
I think Vegeta uses Grade 3 when he uses the final flash. It was his best opportunity to use it and maximize his blast, he also goated Cell into not moving so he wouldn't have to worry about any agility factors.
Yep but like Goku.told Gohan in the chamber the form is slow you'll need speed to catch your opponent more than brute strength. There's a reason Vegeta didn't push that for.that far.
Doesn't make him the weakest though. Even before he bulked all the way up he was tanking cells shots while Vegeta was getting ragdolled. @@StayInYourPlace
@sky-oq5mr yet my comment didn't say he was weak. Idc about tanking ki blasts when you can't even touch your opponent. And he was too big to even dodge Cell. Cell himself told him he was stronger, he'll even Vegeta himself told Trunks why he didn't bulk up that much after he got up from watching Cell vs Trunks. Your comment is asinine guy.
@@StayInYourPlace Vegeta couldn't touch his opponent neither and got 2 shot......trunks was able to deal damage and make cell think even before going full on grade 3. Vegeta didn't do a single thing after cell transformed into perfect form. So everything you said is null and void.
Vegeta rejects certain transformations even if he has to admit that the one who acheives it is stronger than him, yet still he end up as the strongest and fans don't realize this. Vegeta rejects trunk's ssj transformation - due to stamina issues; Does not attempt SSJ3 - Ends up stronger than Goku in SSJ2 by a rage amp; In the comics he does accept teachings for Ultra Instinct and learns Ultra Ego instead - Beats Goku outright in a 1v1 Conclusion - if Vegeta is unable to acheive a tranformation he isn't missing out 🤔🤨
Always confuses by the fact that kid trunks is a super duper prodigy who went super saiyan on accident,but we’re with all that potential in the future timeline,they are quite litterly the same person
@@Flipitmixit future gohan I kinda get because he didn’t have anyone to train with he just got beat up a lot,but trunks clearly has more potential then gohan,so idk his excuse
There is a theory that without Trunks showing Vegeta there can be more than one Super Saiyan future Vegeta never achieved it, while present Goten and Trunks were conceived while their fathers had access to the form. That's why they had an inate ability with the transformation.
Counterpoint/HotTake: Vegeta was actually an idiot for not using Grade 3 if he could use it. Think about it. Cell showed Vegeta that Vegeta couldn’t hurt cell with a direct attack to a vital target, but also that Cell was cocky enough to allow himself to be hit to prove his strength. What Vegeta needed was more brute strength. It doesn’t matter how fast you are if your attacks are doing zero damage anyway.
@@StayInYourPlace The point is, he should have atleast used the power to increase his durability, i dont think vegeta was on Trunks' level being that he couldnt keep up with Cell's speed but Trunks was able to until he bulked up too much
@@gangstagummybear3432 or maybe Vegeta used most of his energy transforming twice and fighting both forms of Cell... Did you think about that? I'm sure Trunks didn't fight both forms.
It's not just about raw power, Vegeta is a very experienced fighter who has fought countless opponents, had his share of defeats as well and got stronger with every battle. He may be an arrogant prideful jerk, but he has much better fighter's instincts than Trunks did. Trunks is a child with great power and no idea how to use it right. TeamFourStar got it right when Cell mocks Trunks and tells him "you're surrounded by fighters who have seen more action in a week than you've seen your entire life." Scratch that, they've seen more action in a DAY than in his entire life.
He had Gohan train him, and that Gohan never fought cell. He didn't know how to use his actual power. He was born a nerd with Bulma. Gohan at least had goku to push him. What did trunks have? Questions. A lot of questions, and a good reason to hide. By the time he was able to train with vegeta, his dad was more worried about training a form he knew well. Trunks just achieved that and then never had anyone to train with, because Gohan died. His early potential was put on hold, and his father didn't put in the effort to help him understand it.
Trunks is shown to have more potential than his Future counterpart, which I find hard to believe. Future Trunks had to train for years to defeat the androids, while present Trunks and with Goten, who barely train, were able to pressure Android 18, who's stronger than her future counterpart, during the World Tournament.
Present trunks started training at a earlier age then future trunks did that’s why and future trunks couldn’t even fly at 14 while present trunks at 8 was flying and ssj already and had training partners like vegeta in the gravity room u seen what that did to goku before he went to namek and goten in the time chamber one day in there made vegeta and trunks stronger than the androids and they just got beat the day before but now I l feel like present trunks potential is gone he is no where near future trunks level he doesn’t have ssj2 or ssj rage and I don’t think he is powerful enough to unlock it plus they will never need it because of goku and vegeta always saving the day I think goten and trunks is only gonna be at ssj thats it unless they do the fusion dance that’s the only time they are gonna be good or useful
This is like saying Future Gohan had less potential than Present Gohan because Future Gohan died to Future Android 17 whereas Present Gohan obliterated SPC... do you know how ridiculous that sounds? Method of training and circumstances matter a lot
Y’all remember when Trunks cut an immortal god / saiyan in half …or when he beat all his threats single handedly after Cell in The future…that man got 30 spin off as well …respect on his name please and thankyou
Wile I don't think Trunks was noticably any weaker than Vegeta, I'd say they're mostly near about the same, I've said for a number of years that Vegeta was actually utilizing grade 3 power when he was powering up the final flash, if you look closely, the energy intensity, hair spike and muscular swell up looks very similar to Trunk's grade 3 powerup and it explains why out of the blue Vegeta suddenly had the power to obliterate Cell.
A lot of this makes sense but Trunks was holding back. We get this from Krillin who is an expect in sensing and gauging energy. The gap between what Vegeta can do and what he thinks he can do is something you can park a Death Star in without anybody noticing it.
@@smaragdchaos He definitely "held back" but as he was, it was confirmed Trunks was stronger than Cell, Cell had more power to use, but Trunks exceeded his power though as he was, Vegeta was called a weakling by Cell, but Cell said Trunks is very strong, so your thoughts fail.
@@smaragdchaos th-cam.com/video/kSoELpHNVL0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=dH7Ao897aDbiJseL Just shut up next time and leave debates for others. That was the third time he powered up. The one before that he was taking cells hits and secretly telling krillin how to sneak Vegeta outta there without Vegeta sensing his power.
@@sky-oq5mr Using anime only scenes is an instant L. In the manga, SSj grade 3 Trunks was getting roflstomped by Cell the entire time, to the point of driving Trunks into frustration. It was clear as day that Cell was far above Trunks in all aspects, strength included
Are grade 2 and 3 nessary to lean grade 4 now like if vegeta trains bulla dose he need to shoe her grade 2 and 3 or dose he just teaches her grade 4 also what the difference between ss2 and ss grade 2 the multipler are the same right so what the difference also could ss2 and 3 be upgraded version of grade 2 and 3
Well in all fairness, he didn't have the best teacher growing up and Vegeta doesn't like to share secrets. The weakness of Grade 3 wasn't discussed long before it had to be put into practice.
Do you really think ssj Vegeta would lose to Frieza and king cold? Think about that now. Next you will be saying that raditz can beat Frieza because raditz beat Goku.......come on dawg lol
The warriors from the dimension/future Trunks came from are weaker than those we know in 'our' dimension. As a hybrid Saiyan, Trunks has more hidden potential than a pure blood Saiyan,Vegeta included, but he was already shocked about the power of the Androids when they fought Vegeta. Remember? He was shocked about how his father power when he fought Android 18. Even kid Trunks is different from his future version, i.e. the first had no problem becoming Super Saiyan when the future version didn't until future Gohan's death.
FINALLY! Somebody seeing the same thing I was seeing. The moment trunks attacks weren’t working on Perfect Cell Vegeta should’ve started shitten bricks at that point.
Great argument. I would say that it would seem a recurring theme that human-Saiyan hybrids are commonly expressed as much stronger than pure Saiyans, at least initially in the story, but in the more recent additions with Goku & Vegeta reaching near-god status, this old theme may be defunct.
Ive always thought that trunks ssj grade 3 was like cousin form to Brolys Lssj. & always wondered if maatering grade 3 could lead to LSSJ form like a different path than the regular ssj transformations (1,2,3 etc)
Something I do wonder is how far Trunks would've come with proper training. If Vegeta had told him how useless Grade 3 was, would Trunks have found something better? If Goku had trained him, would he have matched Gohan? I've no doubt he had a lot of potential, but he was dealt such a raw hand.
krillin could encourage him to do it because even to someone as strong as android 18 they were simply too fast even to track so he propably would not even notice the drop in speed even if he would watch the fight lol
Trunks is kind of like Superman, in that he didn't have anyone to show him the ropes. Incredible levels of power is great, but without knowing how to effectively and efficiently wield it, he never reached his true potential.
When it comes to fighting intelligence, Gohan and Future Trunks don’t ever come close to their fathers Goku and Vegeta, even if they might surpass their old men every now and then.
Cell tells trunks Vegeta knew not use the power well at least I remember it that way, but yeah it should be obvious because trunks states it Vegeta and trunks prolly just never talked in that chamber 😂
Trunks is so bad at training that Vegeta had to tell him AGAIN he shouldn't be slacking and to constantly push himself higher and higher. He sees all of the forms up to that point and is dumbfounded at the prospect of Suoer Saiyan 2 not being the pinnacle. I gethe wanted to rest a bit after winning and as Goku shows, that's not a bad thing to have. But he's GOT to keep going.
Trunks was the strongest Super Saiyan at that point, the problem was that he never trained to hold back when needed. Ultra Trunks was stronger, the problem is it was a bulky, slow, and energy draining form. He later perfected it with SSJ Rage. This is a ridiculous argument. He lost because he wasn't ready. That doesn't mean he was weak.
Prior to the Cell Games, Vegeta was a horrible teacher and sparring partner for Trunks. Vegeta didn't even acknowledge Trunks being his son, until the days before the Cell Games, where Vegeta might have come to realize on a fundamental level, that Trunks might really be his son, and so, when Super Perfect Cell killed Trunks, Vegeta's anger took over. This would explain why Vegeta trains very hard in the gravity chamber with Kid Trunks in the years leading up to the Buu Saga. He didn't want to see his son get killed that easily again, and so took it upon himself to train Kid Trunks. Also, with Goku gone and Gohan being a pacifist, he probably figured that his own son would make the best sparring partner if he wanted to become stronger than Goku, at least until Goku came back with a shiny new stamina-sink called Super Saiyan 3.
Grade 3 has more power but it doesnt have the speed to put it to use. Its like hitting someone by sitting on them or swiftly punching them over and over. You cant sit faster so your just relying on pure weight.
Idk, I think it is possible super trunks surpassed super vegeta without going grade 3. It depends on the intention of the writing. Geets says that trunks is almost as strong as him, but later it is revealed that trunks is concealing his true power to protect vegeta's ego and geet's ego might blind him from making an accurate summation. We don't really know if trunks grade 2 surpasses vegeta grade 2 or if he simply thinks he's surpassed geets with grade 3. But the theme in this arc is sons surpassing fathers so, could be. I really think trunks was holding back the whole time he was in front of vegeta and as for the kick I don't think he put as much force behind it, whereas vegeta really wound up to kick cell. I think it is up in the air
What if it wasnt simply because we "already saw the ssj g2 power up scene" and instead it was actually because that since trunks had been training in the hbtc as g3 it allowed him to gather his power faster and transform quicker to his g2 state. Similar to the rest of the heroes now being able to go ssj and ssj2 in an instant.
Its simple, Vegita wouldn’t guide Trunks, because he (Vegita) wanted to be the strongest and wouldn’t allow Trunks to out perform him… He scolds Trunks for using this form, because he knew it was useless.
Maybe Vegeta went to grade 3 briefly for his Final Flash, which is why it damaged Cell so badly. It makes sense, since speed and endurance didn’t really matter in that attack. He also looked really buff when firing it.
I think you’re playing semantics, does it matter that vegeta chose not use grade 3? No, because in the same vein Trunks didn’t decide to use grade 2 against cell. There’s absolutely is no purchase to say grade 3 Vegeta would be stronger than Trunks. If you’re talking about statements Vegeta literally directly called Trunks his equal in strength to cell. There is absolutely no evidence to say that Trunks is any weaker at all from base to all the grades of super saiyan.
Honestly being the weakest super saiyan is the reason vegeta was always so pissed. He knew deep down the fault was his failure. Vegeta was proud when he thought trunks was closer to his strength eclipsing gohan but once they came out of the time chamber reality set in again.
Bottom line is it doesn't matter if Vegeta could do "Ultra" or not. The drawbacks were so high that it did not factor into consideration for the fight with Cell. Trunks did it because he lacks battle experience
He was train by my boy future gohan and gave him the best knowledge and experience as possible for a warrior but for Gohan he didn’t learn enough himself plus with no piccolo or Goku around he lacks strength
Vegeta has never trained seriously either. He focuses on torture training and exploiting his saiyan biology for zenkai boosts. Goku legitimately understands martial arts and does a combination of strength training, sparring, and mental training. Vegeta is a battle prodigy so that’s why he’s able to learn from his mistakes. The half saiyans are explicitly stated to have more potential. Imagine Trunks with elder kai potential unlocked.
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bro make one of these videos on cell max plssss
Trunks isn’ he almost went super saiyan 2 he knew could have killed cell he thought that form was the strongest / u don’t understand the saiyans for saying he’s the weakest
So a quick theory question: what if Vegeta went SS grade 3 when he used the final flash that Cell took head on? Hope to see a video on this. Love your content.
Also, I'll subscribe if you make that theory video.
Really thought bardock would be the weakest super saiyan
He didnt drink plenty of juice.
He also didn’t do bunch of push-ups
@@TK11223or sit-up’s
@@deucehudson4887 Or train ALL DAY yesterday.
@@Arbron or unlock something crazier than that because of the plot.
Man didn't need juice...man needed hetap! Kinda hard to get it in an apocalyptic future timeline and by the time he had travelled back in time he was too dumb to the godliness of that hetap
Simply put it, Vegeta is a shit training partner, a shit father and a shit teacher at least in the cell arc.
Trunks was trained by a Gohan who never trained seriously again after the 6 months he spent with piccolo in the sayain saga just preparing him to fight in the first place. Since I doubt he would train after Goku died if he knew there was no threat coming and no one was forcing him to train. So Gohan couldn't find a way to train trunks nor himself to a good enough level that would have allowed them to beat the androids by themselves.
He comes to the present and is forced to train with vegeta who by all accounts did not train with trunks on their first time in the chamber at all and didn't even bother to enter with him on Vegeta's second journey inside the chamber, that's on top of Vegeta not even being that good at energy control at that point in the series, all he knew was train hard and get stronger which is probably why even with a whole extra year he couldn't figure out grade 4 even though Goku had explained it to him as soon as he got out of the chamber.
Since trunks had no proper guidance or training partners he couldn't go as far as Gohan someone with similar potential. If trunks had gone in that chamber with anyone aside from Vegeta be it Goku or even piccolo, the martial arts guidance would have accelerated his progress exponentially to the point that with his increased motivation his power would probably surpass Goku and even Gohan's with a few months in the chamber with piccolo.
This is proven when future shin in the super manga trains trunks on his planet for a while to the point that he after accessing ssj2 is able to kill a Debora who as about 20 years on the original version we saw meaning he could be much stronger than the present one from the Buu arc.
Trunks after finally gaining a true master goes onto push the ssj2 form so far it can rival ssj3 Goku after all the training advantages he has had from training in the other world to training with whis and the god ritual.
The only reason trunks is weak is solely due to plot. Gohan did the stupidest thing manga wise by going to face the androids instead of training trunks who became a super saiyan. Worse due to bad writing trunks didn’t go ssj2 off the rage of gohan dying and the fact he’s responsible for cell being here but ofc akira wanted gohan to beat the villain so he had to put in plot conveniences.
Yeah, training with Vegeta was the worst mistake Trunks ever made. Not only is his father not that great at training (as evidenced by how long it took him to even match Goku), but he probably held himself back so that his father's pride wouldn't be wounded.
In fact, one could even argue that Vegeta purposely sabotaged his son's training so that he *wouldn't* become stronger than him. We can't really know, since we didn't see what his training was, but it certainly makes sense his his character at the time.
@@maysen51I wouldn't call it bad writing that Trunks didn't go Super Saiyan 2 when Gohan died when he hadn't even gone Super Saiyan yet.
@@vgdrent2852 incorrect. In the anime he goes super saiyan when gohan dies. In the manga trunks was already a super saiyan before gohan died
@@maysen51 The sayians needed to master SSJ to unlock SSJ2. Besides SSJ2 was only for Gohan.
People forget that trunks is litterally a CHILD, and vegeta has decades of fighting experience. Trunks trained with one person with one arm for a few months and then continued to narrowly escape death a few times from the androids. He has no fighting experience. He beat Freiza just by being a super sayian alone.
The weakest super saiyan came from the future and bodied the biggest threat in earth multiple times
Trunks is still an MVP for what he did to Frieza. He got dealt a bad hand. If he was trained by Goku, he would be far stronger. Vegeta was not able to train him. Its impressive trunks even kept up with them just through observation.
Yep exactly this
Facts 🔥🔥🔥
Exactly, trunks saved everyone when everyone else were too weak & did it more efficiently than every character
I wouldn't say he is mvp for what he did to Frieza. The only reason Goku didn't show up and do the same to him, is because as he stated Trunks showed up so he waited to see how it played out instead of using Instant Transmission. Bulma is MVP for building the time machine so he could go back in time, preventing the Death of the Z fighters. lol
I mean, if he wasn't there it'd be just Namek 2, electric boogaloo
You are missing the point that Trunkz was never willing to power up pass the point of his father. Including in Grade 2 form while his father 'Vegeta' was conscious and aware.
Thank u he has daddy issue
Basically Trunks wasn’t stronger than Vegeta due to them having the same form, Vegeta simply didn’t use the form ‘cause it had too many flaws. Trunks was not stronger than Vegeta as grade 2 either.
This really isn’t hard to understand. He was raised in a post apocalyptic society without anyone to train with. His only trainer Gohan was killed before he even became a super saiyan. He returns home after cell is destroyed in the past timeline to a once again “lonely society” of not having anyone to help push his powers higher, until he meets the supreme Kai, kabito, and faces dabura.
Bro really out here with the 2016 pointless red circles lol
😂😂😂
Maybe he tried to point at something but missed 😔
😅 technically the did have a "point" ⬆️
@@TheRealDyscyples on the thumbnail
I love how they implemented the super saiyan grades and how grade 3 is just super Saiyan 2 without the speed
2 without the speed? Superior strength than 2, less speed than 2 and possibly 1, less stamina than both, less dexterity than both. Yah, it’s bad.
Grade 3 is x10 ss, meaning it's stronger than a ss3, but only in raw strenght, you cannot hit if you're slow
@@parkouremaster no it's not. Grade 3 isn't even stronger than 2.
2 was stronger than grade 3 in every aspect. Cell was stronger than grade 3.
@@DRANKWORLD it's not even as strong as 2. Not sure where you guys thought this.
It's probably not even stronger than grade 4. Let alone Gohan. It's probably not even stronger than Cell.
All we know is it's stronger than grade 2 and suppressed cell..even the cell that fought Goku was stronger before he powered up against Gohan.
@@parkouremasterwhat is blud on about
He is the weakest super saiyan just below vegeta
But what he lacks in strenght he makes up in brains and in "not screwing around"
Yeah, but that's pretty much nullified by his lack of actual experience
Not once did I ever think Trunks was stronger than Vegeta at this point in the series. Seems odd that fans still do.
Maybe back in Android and Future Saga but not now
you should have before it was revealed the form had a drawback, otherwise thats just bad plot comprehension
Less training and less experience. Gohan had been trained by Piccolo and Goku.
Goku is Goku. Vegeta is Vegeta.
Trunks was trained by a Gohan that hadn’t been trained by Goku and hadn’t unlocked super saiyan until he was much older. Trunks also had very limited battle experience.
Future Gohan was chasing Yardrat Goku how many years later? Even if Trunks managed to pass that, he’d still be weaker than Yardrat Goku. Due to what I said above.
Vegeta went super saiyan and was stronger than Yardrat Goku.
I’ve always looked at Trunks like this: He’s the super saiyan Vegeta would’ve been if he transformed on Namek.
I think Vegeta uses Grade 3 when he uses the final flash. It was his best opportunity to use it and maximize his blast, he also goated Cell into not moving so he wouldn't have to worry about any agility factors.
Probably not since it hadnt been introduced.
It's just powering up a shot has always had the same effect.
Trunks indeed had power, but lacked all the experience required to REALLY get the most out of his power
Trunks was really another version of Future Gohan. They both had potential that lacked proper guidance.
@@YamamotoKazuo fax
Trunks didn’t have rage plot like gohan
Didn’t Cell say that Trunk’s grade 3 was stronger in raw power than him?
Yep but like Goku.told Gohan in the chamber the form is slow you'll need speed to catch your opponent more than brute strength.
There's a reason Vegeta didn't push that for.that far.
+50 power
-100 speed
-100 stamina
Doesn't make him the weakest though. Even before he bulked all the way up he was tanking cells shots while Vegeta was getting ragdolled. @@StayInYourPlace
@sky-oq5mr yet my comment didn't say he was weak. Idc about tanking ki blasts when you can't even touch your opponent.
And he was too big to even dodge Cell. Cell himself told him he was stronger, he'll even Vegeta himself told Trunks why he didn't bulk up that much after he got up from watching Cell vs Trunks.
Your comment is asinine guy.
@@StayInYourPlace Vegeta couldn't touch his opponent neither and got 2 shot......trunks was able to deal damage and make cell think even before going full on grade 3. Vegeta didn't do a single thing after cell transformed into perfect form. So everything you said is null and void.
All trunks has to do is tell broly that he’s princess trunks then broly can happily train him
What are you smoking?
“train” in a different way…Seriously what are you smoking?
What substance are you smoking?
Trunks defending his cheeks against a broly on diddy timing is probably good training, but then again that’s suicide
That ain't all he'd be doing. 😉
Vegeta rejects certain transformations even if he has to admit that the one who acheives it is stronger than him, yet still he end up as the strongest and fans don't realize this. Vegeta rejects trunk's ssj transformation - due to stamina issues; Does not attempt SSJ3 - Ends up stronger than Goku in SSJ2 by a rage amp; In the comics he does accept teachings for Ultra Instinct and learns Ultra Ego instead - Beats Goku outright in a 1v1
Conclusion - if Vegeta is unable to acheive a tranformation he isn't missing out 🤔🤨
Always confuses by the fact that kid trunks is a super duper prodigy who went super saiyan on accident,but we’re with all that potential in the future timeline,they are quite litterly the same person
Literally just plot
Because in the future timeline Vegeta was an absentee father so Trunks never saw anyone fight or train until he was old enough to go with Gohan.
Have you met future gohan? His potential was trash
@@Flipitmixit future gohan I kinda get because he didn’t have anyone to train with he just got beat up a lot,but trunks clearly has more potential then gohan,so idk his excuse
There is a theory that without Trunks showing Vegeta there can be more than one Super Saiyan future Vegeta never achieved it, while present Goten and Trunks were conceived while their fathers had access to the form. That's why they had an inate ability with the transformation.
Future Trunks might be the weakest, but he has the most heart. That’s why he's my favorite DBZ character of all-time.
Facts he want all the smoke
Counterpoint/HotTake: Vegeta was actually an idiot for not using Grade 3 if he could use it.
Think about it. Cell showed Vegeta that Vegeta couldn’t hurt cell with a direct attack to a vital target, but also that Cell was cocky enough to allow himself to be hit to prove his strength. What Vegeta needed was more brute strength. It doesn’t matter how fast you are if your attacks are doing zero damage anyway.
Vegeta didn't need brute strength. Did you not hear what Goku told Gohan in the chamber.
@@StayInYourPlace The point is, he should have atleast used the power to increase his durability, i dont think vegeta was on Trunks' level being that he couldnt keep up with Cell's speed but Trunks was able to until he bulked up too much
@@gangstagummybear3432 or maybe Vegeta used most of his energy transforming twice and fighting both forms of Cell... Did you think about that?
I'm sure Trunks didn't fight both forms.
@@StayInYourPlace Sorry that is incorrect, Trunks fought second form Cell too, nice try but you are wrong again
@gangstagummybear3432 actually he fought 1st and 3rd. Not 2nd.
It's not just about raw power, Vegeta is a very experienced fighter who has fought countless opponents, had his share of defeats as well and got stronger with every battle. He may be an arrogant prideful jerk, but he has much better fighter's instincts than Trunks did. Trunks is a child with great power and no idea how to use it right. TeamFourStar got it right when Cell mocks Trunks and tells him "you're surrounded by fighters who have seen more action in a week than you've seen your entire life." Scratch that, they've seen more action in a DAY than in his entire life.
He had Gohan train him, and that Gohan never fought cell. He didn't know how to use his actual power. He was born a nerd with Bulma.
Gohan at least had goku to push him.
What did trunks have? Questions. A lot of questions, and a good reason to hide.
By the time he was able to train with vegeta, his dad was more worried about training a form he knew well. Trunks just achieved that and then never had anyone to train with, because Gohan died.
His early potential was put on hold, and his father didn't put in the effort to help him understand it.
I love when you make these videos you make so much sense🙏🏼💙
Thanks Chief!
I'll answer this is one sentence: He was the least trained and experienced.
Bro,future trunks has always been disrespected 😤 at times i almost forgot he is an hybrid
Trunks was hamstrung by lack of proper instruction while training
Trunks is shown to have more potential than his Future counterpart, which I find hard to believe. Future Trunks had to train for years to defeat the androids, while present Trunks and with Goten, who barely train, were able to pressure Android 18, who's stronger than her future counterpart, during the World Tournament.
Yea I agree also they were able to withstand attacks from buu idk where they’re going with those two
Barely train? Present Trunks trained with vegeta and Present Gohan trained Goten. All future trunks trained with was a weaker gohan
Present trunks started training at a earlier age then future trunks did that’s why and future trunks couldn’t even fly at 14 while present trunks at 8 was flying and ssj already and had training partners like vegeta in the gravity room u seen what that did to goku before he went to namek and goten in the time chamber one day in there made vegeta and trunks stronger than the androids and they just got beat the day before but now I l feel like present trunks potential is gone he is no where near future trunks level he doesn’t have ssj2 or ssj rage and I don’t think he is powerful enough to unlock it plus they will never need it because of goku and vegeta always saving the day I think goten and trunks is only gonna be at ssj thats it unless they do the fusion dance that’s the only time they are gonna be good or useful
Trunks did change the timeline
This is like saying Future Gohan had less potential than Present Gohan because Future Gohan died to Future Android 17 whereas Present Gohan obliterated SPC... do you know how ridiculous that sounds? Method of training and circumstances matter a lot
dude was a mini broly lol powering up every five seconds
Doesn’t matter if he was weak, his kill rate was off the charts!
Y’all remember when Trunks cut an immortal god / saiyan in half …or when he beat all his threats single handedly after Cell in The future…that man got 30 spin off as well …respect on his name please and thankyou
Trunks so underrated man he went back to the future and got his get back 😂😂💯
Wile I don't think Trunks was noticably any weaker than Vegeta, I'd say they're mostly near about the same, I've said for a number of years that Vegeta was actually utilizing grade 3 power when he was powering up the final flash, if you look closely, the energy intensity, hair spike and muscular swell up looks very similar to Trunk's grade 3 powerup and it explains why out of the blue Vegeta suddenly had the power to obliterate Cell.
princess trunks
Trunks never trains like he should. End of story.
That dbz game memory card announcement at the start was a blast from the past
A lot of this makes sense but Trunks was holding back. We get this from Krillin who is an expect in sensing and gauging energy. The gap between what Vegeta can do and what he thinks he can do is something you can park a Death Star in without anybody noticing it.
Trunks ascended 3 different times against cell. The 2nd was him at his peak, he dusted vegeta off and kept up with cell. Then he super bulked up.
exactly
No lol, he didn't. Cell was holding back on Trunks massively and then proceeded to clown on him hard when Kuririn rescued Vegeta
@@smaragdchaos He definitely "held back" but as he was, it was confirmed Trunks was stronger than Cell, Cell had more power to use, but Trunks exceeded his power though as he was, Vegeta was called a weakling by Cell, but Cell said Trunks is very strong, so your thoughts fail.
@@smaragdchaos
th-cam.com/video/kSoELpHNVL0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=dH7Ao897aDbiJseL
Just shut up next time and leave debates for others. That was the third time he powered up. The one before that he was taking cells hits and secretly telling krillin how to sneak Vegeta outta there without Vegeta sensing his power.
@@sky-oq5mr Using anime only scenes is an instant L. In the manga, SSj grade 3 Trunks was getting roflstomped by Cell the entire time, to the point of driving Trunks into frustration. It was clear as day that Cell was far above Trunks in all aspects, strength included
Me reading the title: since when did Goten pass Trunks?
Are grade 2 and 3 nessary to lean grade 4 now like if vegeta trains bulla dose he need to shoe her grade 2 and 3 or dose he just teaches her grade 4 also what the difference between ss2 and ss grade 2 the multipler are the same right so what the difference also could ss2 and 3 be upgraded version of grade 2 and 3
Love the muted ost in the background 🤤
The thing about Vegeta is that he gets outsmarted by main villains but he never gets outsmarted by the Z fighters. Only Goku punks on him
ummm, future gohan?
Yes. But I'm just comparing Super Saiyans in the thumbnail.
Well in all fairness, he didn't have the best teacher growing up and Vegeta doesn't like to share secrets. The weakness of Grade 3 wasn't discussed long before it had to be put into practice.
if Trunks was the weakest Super Saiyan how did he beat Frieza and King Cold?
Because Frieza and King Cold are even weaker? Kinda question is this
@@Flipitmixit yes.. weakers..
Do you really think ssj Vegeta would lose to Frieza and king cold? Think about that now. Next you will be saying that raditz can beat Frieza because raditz beat Goku.......come on dawg lol
Facts and frieza was a half machine shidd half of his strength was gone
Vegeta not using Grade 3 is exactly like him not using SSJ3. He could, and possibly has, obtained it, but saw its weaknesses and chose not to use it.
vegeta doesnt have ssj3 though
The warriors from the dimension/future Trunks came from are weaker than those we know in 'our' dimension. As a hybrid Saiyan, Trunks has more hidden potential than a pure blood Saiyan,Vegeta included, but he was already shocked about the power of the Androids when they fought Vegeta. Remember? He was shocked about how his father power when he fought Android 18. Even kid Trunks is different from his future version, i.e. the first had no problem becoming Super Saiyan when the future version didn't until future Gohan's death.
I Alway Enjoy That Episode When Trunks Beats Frieza And King Cold With Ease That Was A Very Intelligent Episode.
FINALLY! Somebody seeing the same thing I was seeing. The moment trunks attacks weren’t working on Perfect Cell Vegeta should’ve started shitten bricks at that point.
I’ve always thought trunks should have been stronger than what he was
LETS GET IT WOOO
Great argument. I would say that it would seem a recurring theme that human-Saiyan hybrids are commonly expressed as much stronger than pure Saiyans, at least initially in the story, but in the more recent additions with Goku & Vegeta reaching near-god status, this old theme may be defunct.
*Coughs in future gohan*
Ive always thought that trunks ssj grade 3 was like cousin form to Brolys Lssj. & always wondered if maatering grade 3 could lead to LSSJ form like a different path than the regular ssj transformations (1,2,3 etc)
Something I do wonder is how far Trunks would've come with proper training.
If Vegeta had told him how useless Grade 3 was, would Trunks have found something better?
If Goku had trained him, would he have matched Gohan?
I've no doubt he had a lot of potential, but he was dealt such a raw hand.
krillin could encourage him to do it because even to someone as strong as android 18 they were simply too fast even to track so he propably would not even notice the drop in speed even if he would watch the fight lol
Out of all the Super Saiyans Gohan has the strongest Grade 2 (SS2) literally lol
Thumbnail randomly pinpointing meaningless part of hair on point as always.
It's actually Vegeta's foot beating Trunks to emphasise the truth in the video about Vegeta > Trunks overall. You need to be more observant.
Trunks is kind of like Superman, in that he didn't have anyone to show him the ropes. Incredible levels of power is great, but without knowing how to effectively and efficiently wield it, he never reached his true potential.
It's very simple: Piccolo is a capacitor, while 17 is a battery
Trunks was holding back against Cell because he didn't want to piss off Daddy. I think they're on par if not Vegeta edges him through experience
When it comes to fighting intelligence, Gohan and Future Trunks don’t ever come close to their fathers Goku and Vegeta, even if they might surpass their old men every now and then.
Cell tells trunks Vegeta knew not use the power well at least I remember it that way, but yeah it should be obvious because trunks states it Vegeta and trunks prolly just never talked in that chamber 😂
I have my reasons , but im all for "grades" 💪🏿 but the rational explanations are appreciated 🤜🏿🤛🏿
Trunks is so bad at training that Vegeta had to tell him AGAIN he shouldn't be slacking and to constantly push himself higher and higher.
He sees all of the forms up to that point and is dumbfounded at the prospect of Suoer Saiyan 2 not being the pinnacle.
I gethe wanted to rest a bit after winning and as Goku shows, that's not a bad thing to have. But he's GOT to keep going.
Trunks was the strongest Super Saiyan at that point, the problem was that he never trained to hold back when needed. Ultra Trunks was stronger, the problem is it was a bulky, slow, and energy draining form. He later perfected it with SSJ Rage. This is a ridiculous argument. He lost because he wasn't ready. That doesn't mean he was weak.
People also have to consider in his timeline he has other priorities to consider other than training.
Prior to the Cell Games, Vegeta was a horrible teacher and sparring partner for Trunks. Vegeta didn't even acknowledge Trunks being his son, until the days before the Cell Games, where Vegeta might have come to realize on a fundamental level, that Trunks might really be his son, and so, when Super Perfect Cell killed Trunks, Vegeta's anger took over. This would explain why Vegeta trains very hard in the gravity chamber with Kid Trunks in the years leading up to the Buu Saga. He didn't want to see his son get killed that easily again, and so took it upon himself to train Kid Trunks. Also, with Goku gone and Gohan being a pacifist, he probably figured that his own son would make the best sparring partner if he wanted to become stronger than Goku, at least until Goku came back with a shiny new stamina-sink called Super Saiyan 3.
Grade 3 has more power but it doesnt have the speed to put it to use. Its like hitting someone by sitting on them or swiftly punching them over and over. You cant sit faster so your just relying on pure weight.
Idk, I think it is possible super trunks surpassed super vegeta without going grade 3. It depends on the intention of the writing. Geets says that trunks is almost as strong as him, but later it is revealed that trunks is concealing his true power to protect vegeta's ego and geet's ego might blind him from making an accurate summation. We don't really know if trunks grade 2 surpasses vegeta grade 2 or if he simply thinks he's surpassed geets with grade 3. But the theme in this arc is sons surpassing fathers so, could be. I really think trunks was holding back the whole time he was in front of vegeta and as for the kick I don't think he put as much force behind it, whereas vegeta really wound up to kick cell. I think it is up in the air
What if it wasnt simply because we "already saw the ssj g2 power up scene" and instead it was actually because that since trunks had been training in the hbtc as g3 it allowed him to gather his power faster and transform quicker to
his g2 state. Similar to the rest of the heroes now being able to go ssj and ssj2 in an instant.
I always thought Vegeta used grade 3 only when charging up the final flash
This is the SS3 Vegeta argument. Vegeta could access the form if he wanted to, but doesn’t because it’s an inefficient transformation
Its simple, Vegita wouldn’t guide Trunks, because he (Vegita) wanted to be the strongest and wouldn’t allow Trunks to out perform him…
He scolds Trunks for using this form, because he knew it was useless.
Maybe Vegeta went to grade 3 briefly for his Final Flash, which is why it damaged Cell so badly. It makes sense, since speed and endurance didn’t really matter in that attack. He also looked really buff when firing it.
What if Vegeta used grade 3 when charging the final flash
4:39 it was doing what to him gang ?
Is ssj level different from grade level?
Trunks is awesome 😎
I think you’re playing semantics, does it matter that vegeta chose not use grade 3? No, because in the same vein Trunks didn’t decide to use grade 2 against cell. There’s absolutely is no purchase to say grade 3 Vegeta would be stronger than Trunks. If you’re talking about statements Vegeta literally directly called Trunks his equal in strength to cell. There is absolutely no evidence to say that Trunks is any weaker at all from base to all the grades of super saiyan.
Trunks didnt train or was Battle tested that much at the point despite fighting the androids
Here’s a video idea. What about why didn’t gero design 17 and 18 to want to join cell
because he's Vegeta's son?
Nice match up
Honestly being the weakest super saiyan is the reason vegeta was always so pissed.
He knew deep down the fault was his failure. Vegeta was proud when he thought trunks was closer to his strength eclipsing gohan but once they came out of the time chamber reality set in again.
Idec he still throws hands on sight 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥😂
Bottom line is it doesn't matter if Vegeta could do "Ultra" or not.
The drawbacks were so high that it did not factor into consideration for the fight with Cell.
Trunks did it because he lacks battle experience
If Vegeta was able to use grade 3, would have beat Cell if he used it when he used the final flash? i think he should have used it that way.
He was train by my boy future gohan and gave him the best knowledge and experience as possible for a warrior but for Gohan he didn’t learn enough himself plus with no piccolo or Goku around he lacks strength
Anime cell: you are stronger now but slower so you'll have to hit me.
Remembering the last 5 minutes of trunks hitting cell.
nlg i love this version of truck they dbs trucks dirty
I never thought about it, trunks just simply never seemed weak to me
Honestly I would have been nice to at least see Vegeta in SS Grade 3
4:29 it was doing what gang ?
I felt so bad for Trunks here lol
Red circles 😭
Vegeta has never trained seriously either. He focuses on torture training and exploiting his saiyan biology for zenkai boosts. Goku legitimately understands martial arts and does a combination of strength training, sparring, and mental training. Vegeta is a battle prodigy so that’s why he’s able to learn from his mistakes. The half saiyans are explicitly stated to have more potential. Imagine Trunks with elder kai potential unlocked.
Makes you shudder to think what would have happened if Vegeta went grade 3 for the final flash.
Pretty sure trucks didn’t blow off perfect cells right arm
Cell knew all of Vegeta’s moves because of his cells but with Trunks he doesn’t have his cells so he decided to use him as a warm up.
Stronger not faster. Float like a butterfly sting like a bee