My external frame pack has load levelers, a padded hip belt with pockets, mesh back , and the metal doesn't touch my back anywhere. The top bar is contoured so I can ,lean my head back without touching any where. I can choose to use a water bladder with hose or just water bottles. I can carry my ultra light gear plus extra water and food and comfort items all day long without feeling the weight like I do with other packs, using the same gear. Plus, it adds shade and ventilation in hot weather. I love it.
Best statement ever, " Find what what works for you." I love my external frames but I also love my frameless bags for different reasons. I also love my packboard. In reality a modern external frame compared to a modern no frame might have been better because modern external frames are much better than the old classics (which I also love).
"Retro or Retrogrouch Backpacking" ...I read this in a add on the internet...talking about Backpackers that primarily used vintage backpacking gear...now is this a real thing...is there a new fad called Retrogrouch Backpacking? I know Vintage backpacking gear is becoming more in Vogue. . .then it was... Some call this ("Retro" (Grouch) Backpacking)...for short. Retrogrouch -noun 1. One who is skeptical of technological developments until their usefulness and reliability have been proven. 2. One who insists on minimalist equipment that may be user-serviced, and has proven its usefulness in the past. . . 3. He is such a retro Grouch he still uses a camera that takes film. . .
I like my Ohm. The metal bit is more like a stay in a well made corset. I dont feel it at all. It's a thin metal, u-shaped rod that gives just enough support to make the pack comfortable. It can also be removed if i really don't want it in there. A friend of mine is still hiking with her old exterior frame pack. She. Goues out with her grands anf ends up carrying a ton of stuff for them. She's had that pack for at LEAST 40 years.
Your example of an external rfame backpack is rather old I must say,. And while increasingly rare the modern versions have all the straps and paddings needed to make them comfortable. They're typically made for a capacity of 130 liters (and then you can extend from there), and the thing you would like to have if you had shot a large animal and needed to carry it home, for example. I understand why you don't have such a monster, but even my 35 to 40 year external frame backpack (that I still cling to for heavy loads) has a seriously padded back, a seriously padded hip belt and only really lacks the load lifters. Just so you know.
The external frame pack needs the webbing to keep the frame from touching your body, and a hipstrap. My internal frame pack is from 1980, and I carry 45-50 LBs with food & water, stove, pot, etc., a sleeping bag inside, and a tent lashed on the top. I have been up 15,000 ft mountains in the NM Rockies.
That internal frame Kelty pack is my kinda pack. I carry 30lbs in my Osprey and once I have the pack in and adjusted, I don’t even feel it. This was a really great and informative video! Thanks for sharing!
That gold anodized frame is missing the padded hip belt, frame should not sit on the butt. My Camp TraiI 'Astral Cruiser' from 1974 is still going strong, not that I can lift 90lbs, 110 litres any more.
Good job on a needed topic! My external frame has a padded hip belt, which carries the weight much better, but I pretty much stick with my Kelty Coyote. My one beef with frameless/ultra lites is most dont have many compartments/pockets. I don't like to dig through everything to find my cookset or stakes. With my Coyote, I can store things separately in the pockets. Just my little "quirk"!!😋😋 I might check out the cheap one at the end for summer hiking when I don't take much gear. That is a nice price!!😎😎
our world outdoors I think you are right. I haven’t been able to fit all my stuff for the winter in the frameless pack I have so it was hard to use it lol
Check out and/or recommend to your friend Fred, Seek Outside framed packs. Completely adjustable, don't weight so much and can carry loads. They are definitely pricey, but its a one time buy that can last a very long time and make carrying very comfortable.
Great video. those external frame packs are so interesting. I want one just to get some trail cred lol I do love my modase pack but I love an internal frame pack as I have no plans of going lightweight. I returned my Gregory so I'm still in the lookout for the right pack for me.
Thinking ... irritation and annoyance Preferences and culture = head, back/top/top-front shoulder, shoulder-blades, lower-back, waist, buttocks-top, ... Load bearing parts = shifting-seating Chaffing parts = height/breadth adjustable-flex(belts and buckles) Support parts = shifting-angles Balance parts = shifting-spacing Counter balance parts = shifting-rotational-torsional effects Shade = optional clothes drying smelly Air shaping = loose(extra size) unbuttoned long-sleeve shirt with stiffer collar away from neck effect, loose-sleeves rolled to weight-fabric holding-position before-after elbow Air pumping = flapping shirt up-down left-right one corner lower and one corner drape-tuck = modes (back-muscle shapes) = Snail, worm, (no crab), toad, gorilla (hand knucles on ground), monkey, armpit scratch, pull-up Inner+outer insert(spaces) for (types)supports... Helmet peak headroom top rack to back frame started above rack and ending before hitting upper buttocks for all movements using flappy parts for buttocks area. Use width of bag for counter-rotational(entire structure) vertical outer "supports" starting a bit above mid-bag to lower than mid-buttocks... Continue to think... maybe never
"Retro or Retrogrouch Backpacking" ...I read this in a add on the internet...talking about Backpackers that primarily used vintage backpacking gear...now is this a real thing...is there a new fad called Retrogrouch Backpacking? I know Vintage backpacking gear is becoming more in Vogue. . .then it was... Some call this ("Retro" (Grouch) Backpacking)...for short. Retrogrouch -noun 1. One who is skeptical of technological developments until their usefulness and reliability have been proven. 2. One who insists on minimalist equipment that may be user-serviced, and has proven its usefulness in the past. . . 3. He is such a retro Grouch he still uses a camera that takes film. . .
External frame = Seasoned long distance hiker... Internal frame = beginner to intermediate medium distance hiker... Frameless = Ultralight obsessed wanker who never admits to the group how much their back and shoulders hurt or how they didn't sleep because their backpack isn't sizeable enough to carry enough equipment to allow a comfortable camp setup. Admittedly, I'm a winter hiker who needs to ruck 80-100lbs if I'm not using a Pulk, so perhaps I could get away with an internet frame or maybe even frameless if I were hiking in easy temperatures over 10°C and only 15-20 miles per day.
You can carry whatever you want but if you're the person that has to downgrade others because they choose to carry a different setup than you then I would say you are the one with the problem. I have frameless and I have a full hammock set up with under quilt top quilt tarp and also have a complete setup with a lanshan 2 . Some of us just want to go out in the woods to enjoy nature not to bring the kitchen sink with us. But thanks for watching and commenting
@@Funkteon The conditions you're speaking of you are the minority. So it says something when you're the minority but you're judgmental of others if three quarters of the world is warmer than that during backpacking camping and hiking seasons and three quarters of the year the conditions don't fit into the box you're trying to say everybody then wouldn't it make sense that most people do it exactly the way you're supposed to and you're the outlander
This is exactly why I put the statement of the video hike with whatever makes you happy cuz none of us have the right to be judgmental of others do what makes you happy as long as you're happiness doesn't stop someone else from being happy
@@WealthandTravelonaDime My assertions come from a lot of experience encountering ultralight obsessed 'gram counters' who try to follow along with myself and other expeditionists, who always give up within 50-60 miles due to running out of food and/or water, or suffering injury due to a lack of proper restorative sleep. I've lost count of the number of times I've had to share my food and water with these frameless ultralight folks who thought they were badass by virtue of their lighter packs... I use the 'Bergans Powerframe 130L' external framed rucksack if I'm not pulling a Pulk. If I am pulling a Pulk, I'm still using a Swedish LK35 with an external frame... Basically, unless I was car camping or just going out for a short overnight hike, I can't think of a time where an external frame wouldn't trump an internal frame, or certainly a frameless...
My external frame pack has load levelers, a padded hip belt with pockets, mesh back , and the metal doesn't touch my back anywhere. The top bar is contoured so I can ,lean my head back without touching any where. I can choose to use a water bladder with hose or just water bottles. I can carry my ultra light gear plus extra water and food and comfort items all day long without feeling the weight like I do with other packs, using the same gear. Plus, it adds shade and ventilation in hot weather. I love it.
Sounds like you have perfect setup for you
Best statement ever, " Find what what works for you." I love my external frames but I also love my frameless bags for different reasons. I also love my packboard. In reality a modern external frame compared to a modern no frame might have been better because modern external frames are much better than the old classics (which I also love).
"Retro or Retrogrouch Backpacking" ...I read this in a add on the internet...talking about Backpackers that primarily used vintage backpacking gear...now is this a real thing...is there a new fad called Retrogrouch Backpacking? I know Vintage backpacking gear is becoming more in Vogue. . .then it was...
Some call this ("Retro" (Grouch) Backpacking)...for short.
Retrogrouch
-noun
1. One who is skeptical of technological developments until their usefulness and reliability have been proven.
2. One who insists on minimalist equipment that may be user-serviced, and has proven its usefulness in the past. . .
3. He is such a retro Grouch he still uses a camera that takes film. . .
Gots myself an Alps mountaineering external. Super comfy, don't feel any bars. Almost five pounds, but love it. 👍
If it works for you rock it. Thats all that matters
Thanks, think I'll look to a cheap ultralight option for high mile occasions, but I'm more for the camp than the walk.
Great content!
I like my Ohm. The metal bit is more like a stay in a well made corset. I dont feel it at all. It's a thin metal, u-shaped rod that gives just enough support to make the pack comfortable. It can also be removed if i really don't want it in there.
A friend of mine is still hiking with her old exterior frame pack. She. Goues out with her grands anf ends up carrying a ton of stuff for them.
She's had that pack for at LEAST 40 years.
The ohm is awesome pack its hard to beat
Your example of an external rfame backpack is rather old I must say,. And while increasingly rare the modern versions have all the straps and paddings needed to make them comfortable. They're typically made for a capacity of 130 liters (and then you can extend from there), and the thing you would like to have if you had shot a large animal and needed to carry it home, for example. I understand why you don't have such a monster, but even my 35 to 40 year external frame backpack (that I still cling to for heavy loads) has a seriously padded back, a seriously padded hip belt and only really lacks the load lifters. Just so you know.
Like i said at end of video use what makes you happy and fits your style there is no right or wrong answer just use what works
The external frame pack needs the webbing to keep the frame from touching your body, and a hipstrap.
My internal frame pack is from 1980, and I carry 45-50 LBs with food & water, stove, pot, etc., a sleeping bag inside, and a tent lashed on the top. I have been up 15,000 ft mountains in the NM Rockies.
👍
That internal frame Kelty pack is my kinda pack. I carry 30lbs in my Osprey and once I have the pack in and adjusted, I don’t even feel it. This was a really great and informative video! Thanks for sharing!
Thats one of your kids packs lol
our world outdoors Really! That is awesome! I love that pack!!!!!!!
@@TimeOuttotheTrail might have steal it lol. We planning get some miles down by u soon we dtop off both
our world outdoors Awesome! Would still love to get some miles in with you two sometime!
That gold anodized frame is missing the padded hip belt, frame should not sit on the butt. My Camp TraiI 'Astral Cruiser' from 1974 is still going strong, not that I can lift 90lbs, 110 litres any more.
That was mentioned in video
Good job on a needed topic! My external frame has a padded hip belt, which carries the weight much better, but I pretty much stick with my Kelty Coyote. My one beef with frameless/ultra lites is most dont have many compartments/pockets. I don't like to dig through everything to find my cookset or stakes. With my Coyote, I can store things separately in the pockets. Just my little "quirk"!!😋😋
I might check out the cheap one at the end for summer hiking when I don't take much gear. That is a nice price!!😎😎
It is great for alot of reasons dont freal when it shows up . It folds in on itself into small zip up . Kinda like old ponchos used too
@@WealthandTravelonaDime Actually, my brain from my Coyote is a sling daypack which works very well.
Great comparison! I’m been digging the internal frame but trying out frameless as the weather starts to warm up 🙌 Awesome stuff!!
It will take time to adjust to frameless but once you get it then it hard to go back
our world outdoors I think you are right. I haven’t been able to fit all my stuff for the winter in the frameless pack I have so it was hard to use it lol
Check out and/or recommend to your friend Fred, Seek Outside framed packs. Completely adjustable, don't weight so much and can carry loads. They are definitely pricey, but its a one time buy that can last a very long time and make carrying very comfortable.
I will do that
I have a 220 mile trip and first time external frame, I wonder if I would like the external for that long trip
No way I would do an external frame for 220 mile trip but a lot of people would
Great video!!! All the information are there. Will for sure Help anyone wondering which one to choose.
Yeah thought could be helpful
Great video explaining different packs!
Figured something different lol
Very informative! Good video!
Thanks
Any idea who sells replacement shoulder straps for external style packs that use the clevis pins?
Sadly its hard to find replacement parts . Ebay has options at times
Great video. those external frame packs are so interesting. I want one just to get some trail cred lol I do love my modase pack but I love an internal frame pack as I have no plans of going lightweight. I returned my Gregory so I'm still in the lookout for the right pack for me.
Osprey prob best for internal
Lots of information going on here, think you covered all the bases. I mostly use frameless.
Seems internal and frameless are staples at the moment
What's the base weight of 10 cinder blocks? LOL Great video man, thanks!
Thanks subbed back
Thinking ... irritation and annoyance
Preferences and culture = head, back/top/top-front shoulder, shoulder-blades, lower-back, waist, buttocks-top, ...
Load bearing parts = shifting-seating
Chaffing parts = height/breadth adjustable-flex(belts and buckles)
Support parts = shifting-angles
Balance parts = shifting-spacing
Counter balance parts = shifting-rotational-torsional effects
Shade = optional clothes drying smelly
Air shaping = loose(extra size) unbuttoned long-sleeve shirt with stiffer collar away from neck effect, loose-sleeves rolled to weight-fabric holding-position before-after elbow
Air pumping = flapping shirt up-down left-right one corner lower and one corner drape-tuck =
modes (back-muscle shapes) =
Snail, worm, (no crab), toad, gorilla (hand knucles on ground), monkey, armpit scratch, pull-up
Inner+outer insert(spaces) for (types)supports...
Helmet peak headroom top rack to back frame started above rack and ending before hitting upper buttocks for all movements using flappy parts for buttocks area. Use width of bag for counter-rotational(entire structure) vertical outer "supports" starting a bit above mid-bag to lower than mid-buttocks...
Continue to think... maybe never
"Retro or Retrogrouch Backpacking" ...I read this in a add on the internet...talking about Backpackers that primarily used vintage backpacking gear...now is this a real thing...is there a new fad called Retrogrouch Backpacking? I know Vintage backpacking gear is becoming more in Vogue. . .then it was...
Some call this ("Retro" (Grouch) Backpacking)...for short.
Retrogrouch
-noun
1. One who is skeptical of technological developments until their usefulness and reliability have been proven.
2. One who insists on minimalist equipment that may be user-serviced, and has proven its usefulness in the past. . .
3. He is such a retro Grouch he still uses a camera that takes film. . .
No thanks hurts my back 😂
On the external frame you are missing the belt
Its an updated model with removable
Prefer external all the way
Different things work for different people it's good that you found what works for you
External frame = Seasoned long distance hiker... Internal frame = beginner to intermediate medium distance hiker... Frameless = Ultralight obsessed wanker who never admits to the group how much their back and shoulders hurt or how they didn't sleep because their backpack isn't sizeable enough to carry enough equipment to allow a comfortable camp setup.
Admittedly, I'm a winter hiker who needs to ruck 80-100lbs if I'm not using a Pulk, so perhaps I could get away with an internet frame or maybe even frameless if I were hiking in easy temperatures over 10°C and only 15-20 miles per day.
You can carry whatever you want but if you're the person that has to downgrade others because they choose to carry a different setup than you then I would say you are the one with the problem. I have frameless and I have a full hammock set up with under quilt top quilt tarp and also have a complete setup with a lanshan 2 . Some of us just want to go out in the woods to enjoy nature not to bring the kitchen sink with us. But thanks for watching and commenting
@@WealthandTravelonaDime I updated my comment to clarify my reason/s...
@@Funkteon The conditions you're speaking of you are the minority. So it says something when you're the minority but you're judgmental of others if three quarters of the world is warmer than that during backpacking camping and hiking seasons and three quarters of the year the conditions don't fit into the box you're trying to say everybody then wouldn't it make sense that most people do it exactly the way you're supposed to and you're the outlander
This is exactly why I put the statement of the video hike with whatever makes you happy cuz none of us have the right to be judgmental of others do what makes you happy as long as you're happiness doesn't stop someone else from being happy
@@WealthandTravelonaDime My assertions come from a lot of experience encountering ultralight obsessed 'gram counters' who try to follow along with myself and other expeditionists, who always give up within 50-60 miles due to running out of food and/or water, or suffering injury due to a lack of proper restorative sleep. I've lost count of the number of times I've had to share my food and water with these frameless ultralight folks who thought they were badass by virtue of their lighter packs...
I use the 'Bergans Powerframe 130L' external framed rucksack if I'm not pulling a Pulk. If I am pulling a Pulk, I'm still using a Swedish LK35 with an external frame... Basically, unless I was car camping or just going out for a short overnight hike, I can't think of a time where an external frame wouldn't trump an internal frame, or certainly a frameless...