Velka is such a mysterious Goddess. But after delving into the little lore, you can almost sense her presence just out of view as you play. Its an interesting sensation
@@theonewhoismany8072 as ironForce pointed out... she is a genuine Goddess ( same as Allfather Lloyd that is mentioned in some descriptions )... not a "self made" Goddess..like the Gwyn and his croonies. And yes she is "heretical" because whole game is ( games are ) from perspective of Gwyn and bunch... "angels to one, demons to other"... whole world in indoctrinated in "linking of fire" shennanigans and is deeply ingrained that alternative is "evil" and "dark"... when in fact the darkness would allow for "tiny flames to appear in the darkness carrying the flame of lords past..." but would made current world and its lords the past and not the present what the continuous linking of the fire is doing.
The dialogue of kaathe in the english version is wrong. in the japanese he says: " So,i will tell you the truth openly. Once,at the begining of fire, the ancestor of your people found a fourth soul after the ancient lords. The soul of dark.The ancestor of your people acquired the soul of dark and waited for after the fire.Eventually,the fire fades and only dark remains. In that case,it would be an age of your people,of dark." In the english version Kaathe makes it seem like the age of dark came but with Gwyn's sacrifice it got reverted to the age of fire when actually it was on the verge of coming.
This translation also seems to omit the idea of the Dark Soul being unique among its fellow Lord souls. Where exactly did you get your translation? I'm currently working on a theory about this and knowing more about the original text would help out a lot.
1:40 I just realized that in the intro, they come from the dark before they find the souls. So it's almost like everything was birthed from the dark, and then when the fire fades the dark consumes and rebirths everything again
How interesting that you show several images and depictions of the Demiurge as a snake-like deity who manipulates mankind, and at the same time we have Kingseeker Frampt who is another snake-like entity working with Gwyn and manipulating the Undead to perpetuate the Age of the Gods. Coincidence? Another awesome Dark Souls video! While the other games may not have dealt so heavily with the theistic/gnostic themes of the first Dark Souls, I would still love to hear your thoughts on Dark Souls 2 and 3 and some of the things mentioned in those games! You delved into the religious origins and inspirations for the themes of disparity and humanity in Dark Souls, but I was wondering if you would also be willing to do some videos about Hollowing and the prevalent themes of the loss of self in the Dark Souls series? In all the games there is the common fate shown with all Undead that is Hollowing, which mainly involves the Undead slowly losing their sanity/sense of purpose and identity and becoming mindless husks. I would love to hear your thoughts and interpretations about this, as quite a few people liken this process to something similar to depression or Alzheimer's. Just a few thoughts and suggestions. I'll still look forward to any video you make. Have a merry Christmas and New Year! Hopefully 2021 doesn't suck as much as 2020!
Hey man! I still fully intend to do videos that cover more about DS2 and 3. It's just going to take some time because I have so many other projects I have to take care of. You too have a great Christmas and New Year.
I love how Max can join so simple things in so complicate and gorgeous answers,which has similarity w real things,and that makes me feel even more..meaningfull,don' know,but is sawsome..recently i stumble upon a something that I believe has more hidden lores than game itself..ds cinematics and intro videos..and I can extract two things 1. There's a difference between Chosen Undead and Undead that shall be chosen..is it? 2. If you look close for ds opening cinematics,in Witches of Izalith there are sparks of cinders bursting near them (sign of a bonfire),same as for Gwyn but not for Nito..guess how many pigmy has,so easely forgotten! Hope ya doin' well,Max..let's spice up that 2021..lol
Frampt isn't perpetuating the Age of the Gods, since it had already ended when Gwyn linked the fire, when the gods left Anor Londo. DS3 explicitly differentiates it from the Age of Fire.
@@maxderrat To be honest, I think the same. I feel like a lot of work as been put in place to uncover and link various pieces of lore through theories over the years, but I haven't seen a lot about comparing the events of Dark Souls to real world myths to gain more understanding of the game's world. In that sense, your extensive research through various religions (and especially Hermeticism in my opinion) is a breath of fresh air.
@@maxderrat i agree. The community interpretation has been stuck for a while. NO ONE has interpreted the saga as a work or literature, as a myth. They just stop at references but never say what do they could mean (symbolic interpretation). And with DS3 is even sadder because the lore is a lot more dense than DS1. It is a shame but is normal when a work of art gets popular... They just care about pvp and builds.... So, yeah, your take is needed. Myasaki didn't created this things out of thin air. As well as berserk, the work of Miyazaki exudes mythology, anthropology, psychology and philosophy. SO LET'S DIG IN.
I still don't know a lot about Velka, and it's strange that she's a goddess even though she doesn't have a light nor a dark soul (that I know of), but still punish the gods. As if she's emending for a mistake.
People of Carim (Velka’s followers) believed that Lords are pretender gods who simply claimed the power of the First Flame and Velka is an actual Goddess who punishes the pretenders.
@@IronForce-ff2qx that would also explain why lautrec murders the firelink keeper, as it would be an entity connected to keeping the age of pretender gods (fire) in power, so to speak. Interesting.
I've been wondering this too. How is Velka a "Goddess" without a Soul from the First Flame? My first thought, although radical was, "Furtive Pygmy!" Hmm, hmmm.
That's a very good perspective. That actually ties into the psychology of trinities and quaternities, which I guess I'm going to be discussing in a future video. :P
Huh. That really does feel spot on. Specifically the fear of the lords of the dark taking over. But then the Lords would have to symbolize the self, or maybe just the persona and the player - the self? Or the Lords as ego. Huh.. Neat.
The First Sin also applies to Gwynn, because he rejects his own Shadow, the shadow of humanity. He does so in such a way that the two halves, his ego and the shadow are at constant war with each other, the gods and humanity. The reconciliation would be the Age of Fire giving way to the Age of Dark, but we all know how well that goes with Gwynn. Hell he completely separated the Pygmies and banished them to a city outside the realm of his own, so he could control them through Filianore and hide them from the rest of the world, the Ringed City.
@@sudoggs Gwyn has no relation to humanity tho. Humanity are literally born of the dark element. Gwyn and the "gods" are of the light. Literal light Humans were of the same element as the ancient dragons. He knew that the dark would rise for his thrown just as his and the other lords light took the throne from the dragons
@@maxderrat Also consider the Usurp the Fire Ending of DS3, *spoilers* After embracing your dark soul, instead of linking the fire and perpetuating the first sin, the player takes the fire into themself and leads humanity towards a new kind of dawn. The hardest to attain ending, but the most rewarding as it promises some kind of actual change, or synthesis.
@@maxderrat Are you familiar with Sir. Penrose's theory about the connections between consciousness and the quantum realm? I think you could make quite the interesting video about that theory and Jung's ideas. I personally believe a lot of Jung's thoughts would get a lot more attention from mainstream researchers, should more tangible evidence regarding that theory surface. Any plans to make content about H.P Lovecraft and/or Junji Ito? Sorry for all the questions, you are one of my favourite content creators on this platform got a bit carried away (: Happy Holidays from Sweden
I would truly like to see a episode of these topics as well. With your attention to detail and in depth research it would be interesting to see where you take us.
As someone who studies Gnosticism, it's also worth noting that the Demiurge sort of represents this over reliance of control that many Anti-Gnostic thinkers were a victim of at the time. Gnostic ideas basically got people thinking about humanities place in the greater cosmos, something that the more organized authoritarian parts of the Church did not like because they viewed it as impractical. The Demiurge itself is a God that needs constant praise from others in order to feel worthy. In The Apocryphon of John, the Demiurge creates multiple celestial beings called Archons that basically exist to perpetuate the Demiurges lies and act out his wrath in case anyone refuses his "Salvation". When humanity begins to question the validity the Demiurge (Because the Demiurge rule isn't absolute no matter how hard he tries) the Archons do their best to suppress and assault humanity to submission. Eventually though according to Gnostic scripture, this material universe is insignificant compared to the greater cosmos and the Demiurge will lose control and depending on the text, will be swallowed back into the Heavens or be left to the unknown chaos he fears so much. This really works hand in hand with Gwyn. The Dark Itself is something to be afraid as we see what it does to different enemies in the game but it's kind of clear that what Gwyn is most afraid of is his eventual downfall. He's afraid of returning to the place he came from, what's worse is he then projects that fear and resentment onto humanity. Deep down he knows this is inevitable but he's still doing what he's doing for the sake of some delusion that a miracle will happen. That's something people forget too. Gwyn and all the other Lords came from the Dark. Nito, Izalith, Gwyn, the Pygmy. Sure, their souls might have been of light but they all came from the same place so it's interesting that Gwyn has such a hatred towards the Pygmies children.
There are several problems with this video. First, the First Sin isn't the linking of the fire by Gwyn. Gwyn put a seal of fire on humanity, which gave them the mortal and fleeting form we know as "human" by sealing the dark within them. Without that seal, they would be either hollows or pygmies. The lords didn't have animosity towards humanity, they just recognized the danger of an Age of Dark towards everyone, not just themselves. Most humans don't want to go back to being immortal hollows. So Gwyn didn't cause human beings to suffer any more than he allowed them to thrive. Even Aldia admits that the fleeting form he gave them is better than the other option, his problem with it being that it's a lie. Whether Gwyn did this for his people's self-interest, or humanity's, or both, is never stated. As for his origin, it's not "incomprehensible". His race was one of the races that appeared from the dark in the intro. But while humans and pygmies got pieces of the dark soul, the others like the gods and giants didn't. We can deduce the gods' civilization developed faster than humanity's, since they came to be regarded as gods, study fire, build giant cities, the archives, learn magic that would eventually be taught as miracles, craft advanced armor and weapons specialized in killing dragons... Also, they seem to have not only ruled over humanity through religion. The statue of Gwyn and the pygmy in Ringed City and the Four Kings also imply they chose the rulers of the human realms from very early on, a la divine right of kings or mandate from heaven. Gwyn was just a member of that race who found the greatest soul, and either became king or was already the king. And Lloyd existed. He wasn't the "allfather", that was a localization change. In the original Japanese, he was the "chief deity", the successor of Gwyn after he linked the fire and all of his children either renounced or were deemed unsuitable for the title. That is until DS3, where Gwyndolin announces himself as a man and becomes the new head god of the Way of White, as the original description of Sullyvahn's soul states. After that, Lloyd lost all his relevancy. As for why the Dark Soul is the only Lord Soul different from the others, it's probably because it represents human nature in all its potential failings, while the other souls are associated with spiritual ideas and concepts that can guide or pacify it, like religion, ambition, or notions of an afterlife. Without something to take their place as guiding forces, humans are destined to fall back to their hollowed state, which is why every time the dark takes hold anywhere, it corrupts that place and turns its people into monsters. It's also why even tho the dark is the element of mankind, it's straight-up said to be a poison to humans. DS is a surprisingly well-done analogy of the Nietzschean death of god.
I would actually love an explanation of the trinity/quaternity. I grew up in a Christian household but these symbolic things are just accepted and no one really knows the origin anymore. It feels somewhat connecting to past humans who also saw similar patterns in our world.
This demon is only a punishment for people because they began to abuse magic. Magic in the world of de's uses the resource of the soul, although the soul itself is the source of self-consciousness without which a person is no different from an animal. And in fact, mass teaching of magic normalizes the creation of massive power-dependent drug addicts who spoil their souls.
I was always of the opinion that only 2 of the lord souls were "light" gwyn and izaliths souls were light specifically the light soul and the life soul respectively. The pygmy and nito were given the "dark" souls of dark for the pygmy and the soul of death for nito. I dont think nito cares if he is worshipped or if the age of fire continues, just that death continues to happen. So he is opposed to the pygmy not because of a threat of an age of dark but that it would make humans immortal. Because as we learn in later souls games the natural state of a human is to be a immortal hollow. Another reason as to why I think nito is a dark figure is due to him having cloak made of humanity and unlike the other 2 lords domains his is cloaked in dark so dark that you actually need to find some way to bring light there. I find it hard to believe that a being with allegiance to the light would swathe himself and his realm in dark. So while yes nito aids the two light soul bearers its for his own dark benefit. Which makes sense because in the game nito seems less like a character like how gwyn and izalith are but a force of nature. Nito seems single minded that death should continue, and he is not above working with those he opposes to ensure it.
btw nito's cloak is not supposed to be humanity or the dark. It's actually supposed to be a cloak of "Miasma." Apparently Nito went through a ton of redesigns because Miyazaki didn't like how it would look.
Through the spells it's also possible to consider the opposite relationship, the light aligns with death and that life aligns with dark. Although Gravelord Sword and Greatsword Dance require no faith, the both are considered miracle something with strong connections to the Light soul. While on the other hand pyromancy (something with strong ties to life) often more relates to aspects of the Dark soul and humanity than it does the Light soul. Such as Chaos pyromancy, which is scaled from Humanity. Along with the fact that as you said; an age of dark is an age of the immortal man, something a lord of death would hate but something a Lord of Life would love. The Ashen Hollow made a pretty decent theory going more into this, I'll link it here if you want: th-cam.com/video/KvQUPdoABrA/w-d-xo.html
@@appleseed8282 An interesting theory, but I'm not so sure it certainly has merit but there's just some things that don't add up for me. All magics eventually got dark equivalents. Even in DS1 there were dark sorceries and sorcery was something created by Seath a being who aligned himself with the light. There's also miracles that can be called dark not including Nitos there is Karmic Justice and Vow of Silence . Both are miracles associated with the dark or occult(in DS1) goddess Velka. I think the rule for miracles in the souls series is that they have to come from a legendary figure since their supposedly tales of their exploits that through memorization the user can manifest lesser versions. Also only chaos weapons scale with humanity not chaos pyromancies. It can also be argued that the reason certain chaos entities require humanity is that certain chaos beings are unstable and supplement their waning life with the life inside of humanity. For example Ceaseless Discharge while not dying from his instability he is ultimately hurt by his own lava without his ring. The fair lady is slowly dying and seems to use the humanity given to her by the chaos servants in order to prolong her life. Perhaps this is related to how when we as players pop a humanity we go back to full health? That said I do think a bright flame can be produced by the dark however I think that flame is the Profaned Flame not the Chaos Flame. I have watched a bit of the video you sent, I haven't got past the Velka is the witch of izalith part and for that I really don't see it. Izalith and Velka seem like very different and distinct entities. I will finish it later though.
@@ToddHimself Nito's Lord Soul is explicitly light and firey in-game, as opposed to beings like Manus and the humanity sprites being explicitly dark. Kaathe also refers to The Dark Soul (singular), being a fourth, unique soul, implying the other three are different. The age of dark is also called the age of man, not the age of Nito. So I don't think there's anything to say Nito's Lord Soul is also a dark soul. Incidentally in DS1 there was no "dark damage" - all dark magic was linked with physicality, with even the dark hand dealing 100% physical damage. The Occult movement attempted to steal Nito's power of death to kill the Gods and occult weapons (and Velka's karmic justice) deal magic damage, rather than physical (I believe gravelord sword dance also does magic but I couldn't find any references). The reason chaos scales off of humanity is because of chaos' link to fire. Humanity makes for good kindling, as we see when offering humanity to kindle bonfires.
I always thought there were 4 lord souls. Death, Dark, Light, and Life. Witch of Izaltih: She carries the life soul, which is why she is associated with birth and chaos. Nito: Death soul Furtive Pygmy: Dark Soul Gwyn: Light Soul
Yes, you're right about all that. But what also seems to be true is that the WoIzalith and Nito favor Gwyn and the Age of Fire over the Age of Dark... if their actions are anything to go by.
For me, Gwyn imposed his light as the only kind of light when the game at the very end of DS3 tells you this is not the case, everything we see related to "light" from DS1 to DS3 has always been this yellow hued light, the same goes for light miracles, but then we see that during Gael's fight his fragments of the Dark Soul create this blue lightning coming from the sky, it's the only time ever we see such color attached to lightning or light for that matter. Also, even though the kingdoms of light such as Lothric or Anor Londo have fallen into the dark, the ringed city, the home of humanity still has a sun. I think that Gwyn didn't just fear an age of dark, he feared that his very own light would be replaced with another (maybe more powerful?), and thus he crated this "Dark" apocalypse for his followers to fear
We also have blue lightning in Dark Souls 2 in the mirror knight boss fight.I think Gwyn's light is more associated with the day,like the sun represents the passage of time,and it represents the blessing that we work with it and during night we rest,the dark age has none of this.
@@lordanonimmo7699 "Miyazaki himself said Dark souls 2 is canon" Could you give a source for that? "Miyazaki himself write things that doesn't follow what he wrote before. " Like what? I'm genuinely curious.
Another useful piece of Lloyd’s lore is that talismans named for him have the ability to stop the effects of estus. Estus seems to be a parallel to the elixir of life, healing undead and being the only thing that provides them with sustenance. So perhaps Lloyd actually held dominion over the ether of the universe
Something else I'd like to briefly touch on, and I thought you might be interested in, is that Dark Souls has a quaternity present, and in the Abyss. It is the 4 Kings. In all places, where Gwynn has decided to stem back the tide of the Dark, you find the quaternity thrown into the Abyss, much like Sophia may have been. Perhaps the 4 Kings symbolize their own turn to Velka and their acceptance of the Age of Dark, and in their heresy, Gwynn floods New Londo, how appropriate that the waters of the unconscious would be where he would condemn them.
I'm surprised Buddhism isn't discussed more with regard to the Souls games' theme of cycles, gradual spiritual growth over many lifetimes/ages and the pursuit of inner peace (both lore-wise and through gameplay) - not specifically for this video but just in general. I suppose it's more an overall thing than something one could link to specific details and characters though.
I think it’s great that there’s somebody who’s still making Dark Souls content, so I really do appreciate this video, but there are a few pretty important details that I think you missed. Nito, Izalith, and Gwyn were not the forces of light against the dark soul. I believe you mistake Gwyn’s pride and ambition for hatred of the dark, where it is shown that he is an incredibly domineering god. He waged war with the dragons for dominion of the world, even though there is never an explanation for why they couldn’t coexist. Similarly, he waged war against Izalith because their creation of demons is detestable to him, and finally he subjugated the humans to serve him even though he was screwing them over. It wasn’t that he and the others conspired against humans, as Nito and Izalith are never said to have been against humans at all. In fact, many pyromancers were humans and were taught by the daughters of chaos, like Engyi. I also think that you are incorrect about the First Sin, as I believe there is more evidence that the sin was his linking the flame to humanity, rather than extending the age of fire. This could certainly be disputed, but in my opinion because Velka is the goddess of sin, it seems to me that forcing them to become undead and lose their humanity seems worse than artificially lengthening the age of fire. And finally, I think you give far too much credit to the validity of Kaathe’s dialogue. Considering he tempted both Oolacile and New Londo into destroying themselves with darkness and humanity, to say that he speaks truth is, in my opinion, extremely fallacious. He is somebody who shouldn’t be trusted, and even though he tells us the story about our ancestors and Gwyn’s cowardice, he could easily be manipulating and deceiving us. These aren’t terribly large problems with your video, but I think that they are certainly inconsistent with the finer lore of the game. Just my opinion, of course I’m open for criticism! But thank you for continuing to discuss this game that we both love so much!
The king of the dragons is heavily associated with glutony, and they are extremely powerful creatures. No wonder they didn't want them to be the dominant power of the world.
@@ibn_adham What threat did the demons pose to Lordran? How did they pose any threat at all? A claim could be made that they had the potential to invade, but there is absolutely nothing in the game or lore that shows that Izalith had malice towards the humans before Gwyn and his army of Black Knights waged war against it.
I never put together that Velka would most likely be pissed at Gwyn for sinning in the first place. Really makes you think if she is Priscilla's mother.
Always with the bomb content! I've been following since AION, and it's fascinating seeing the world from a new view. We need a discussion of you, Uberboyo, and memeanalysis pronto! Thank you Max.
Max -- thank you for making all of your videos. They've kept me going through this year, and it always brightens my day to see new content from you. I'm not always the best about communication, being autistic myself, but I pressured myself into writing this because you deserve to know what a difference you have made. As an aside, my answer is always 'yes!' when you ask if we'd like to hear more on any subject.
Just to be more precise, of the 4 lord souls, only Gwyn's is of the Light. It's like 4 cardinal point and each one is oppose to another. Neto has the lord soul of Death wich oppose the Izalith one : the soul of life. Neto doesn't care at all if we are in an age of Dark or an age of Light. As for Izalith, her motives are more obscure and subject to interpretation. Edit : "[...]and with fire came disparity : Life and Death, Light and Dark [...]"
Ah yes...The Dark Soul...The gentle darkness that is our humanity but also our curse...Seriously though, I'm glad you are covering this. I love the Soulsbourne series. Good job on the analysis as well! Keep it up!
I'm loving these a lot, so much from your videos that I've heard no one else talk about in the Souls community. Surprised Vaati isn't drooling all over these
Again, you have no idea of how latent the synchronicity happens when you just uploaded this video and the enduring moments I watched this video, including of the aspects of Gnostic Christianity within
No one seems to really answer the dilemma of God's existing BEFORE the four great souls were found. Velka, Flame God Flann, and The crying goddess Kaartha didn't receive imbued souls...yet they were almost ancient deities...Where did they come from and how did they become the gods that they were...Did they feel offended at the rise of what would seem as demigods and maybe this is why they usually work against them ? Also I LOVE ALL your videos Max.....Sooooo grateful I found your channel
From my understanding, gods seem to just be big humans often either either strongly revered/worshiped, were in someway powerful, or related in someway to Gwyn and/or the Light Soul. As for those you mention, they can be ancient while still being after the flame. And the fact that their spoken in ways describing them as at least cognoscente suggest that they'd have to be, since the pygmys who approached the flame all seemed to be hollow.
So cool. You did it, bro! You made cool new modern Dark Souls related content! Refreshing! I loved every second, I'd love to hear more about the Quaternity. Thank you! Great video, your very talented. I felt very engaged
This vid was an amazing unique look into a game that I really couldnt believe could get more interesting and compelling. Really looking forward to the Bloodborne vids
@4:33 "Any of the other characters who challenged Gwyn's hegemony received vicious punishments. One of which we will discuss momentarily." I think you left this part out, but I'm really curious which event(s) you were referring to! (You showed the clip of opening the floodgates of New Londo during this part. But, Gwyn rewarded New Londo with a fragment of his own soul just before sacrificing himself at the Kiln of the First Flame. Gwyn could not have had anything to do with the decision to sacrifice the city as he was already a hollow Lord of Cinder by the time the city was flooded.)
People tend to immediately assume everything bad that happened in Lordran was Gwyn's doing. New Londo was probably flooded by the firstborn before he exiled himself.
It would be great to see Max apply Gnostic influence analysis to the deep lore of Destiny. There are tenable parallels between the Demiurge and The Traveler, light as debatably 'objectively' good, and even the deep esoterica of Alpha Lupi, despite being much maligned in Beyond Light.
I find it a bit wild that your videos are the first ones on Dark Souls I have seen that referenced existing religions and creation myths and how clear there are connections to them. I would love to hear more as this is a fascinating and illuminating angle to approach the souls trilogy I think.
I really appreciate these videos because the dude is obviously very knowledgeable about history and religion but less knowledgeable about dark souls. It's a very refreshing perspective. Most souls videos are videogame enthusiasts trying to pick up these huge topics. It seems much easier for a religious/historical enthusiast to pick up the lore of one game than for a videogame enthusiast to pick up the vast array of religious and historical dogma.
Interesting take on the lore and you have points with the parallels with the demiurge to Gwyn but from what I see, you've just recently dipped your toes in the first game. I'm excited to see you go through the 2 remaining ones and see your thoughts change. But I do want to point out a few things that you might've mistaken or don't know yet. 1st is that the notion of only 1 dark soul and 3 light souls. With how Kaathe delivered the dialogue I can understand the confusion but to correct, the souls that Gravelord Nito and the Witch of Izalith obtained are not "Souls of Light" but rather their own separate thing. Nito gained the Death Soul which allows him to grant death and introduced the concept of death to the Everlasting Dragons during the intro. The Witch gained the Life Soul which allowed her to manipulate the world around her, hence why Pyromancy (a magic that requires faith and intelligence) is able to manipulate things like poison, the earth and even other beings despite manifesting usually as fire. Gwyn was the one who gained the Light Soul, which aside from manipulating lighting, also allowed him to control time (light = time in the souls series). And the Pygmy found the Dark Soul. To add to this, the "alliance" Gwyn had with the other 2 was shaky at best. Nito mostly kept to himself in his necropolis in deep slumber while he let his Gravelords bring death like grim reapers to the masses. The Witch of Izalith (depending on which side you believe) used the Life Soul to recreate the First Flame which backfired and turned all of Izalith into demons or used the Life Soul to give birth to the demons, her own children. (the latter seems to have more evidence as not only did the ruins of Izalith fit for massive creatures but Queelag also lovingly embraces her spider half with one of her attacks). And if you've read the Black Knight armor descriptions, Gwyn actually invaded Izalith, killed majority of them and even enslaved the inhabitants, the demons, to guard places or serve as trials. 2nd is that Gwyn isn't fully a "Demiurge". Gwyn despite he and his children are called gods, are more akin to just another species rather than an all encompasing force. If anything, the souls all 4 lords obtained and the Abyss itself are more deific than them as they persisted in all 3 games long after all 4 are dead. Gwyn and his children's actions were not brought on by craving power and obedience to those below them but rather out of Gwyn's own fear of the Dark and Humanity. Gwyn along with his fellow lords killed all of the everlasting dragons and ended the Grey Age of stagnancy and nothingness and ushered in a new Age of Fire AKA the age of creation and prosperity. This age allowed for Time, Life and Death to govern the world. When Gwyn saw the horror of the Dark, and the Abyss thanks to the primeval man/pygmies that fought with him during the Dragon War, it scared him. And finding out that his Age of Fire that he and his comrades fought so hard for will end eventually, he sought ways to prevent this from happening. This action is more human than god, showing that Gywn was no different from humans who in DS3 even mirrored his 1st Sin by attempting to usurp the First Flame for themselves in one of the endings. 3rd is while all Kaathe says is true, he was the one that caused New Londo to be drowned thanks to the 4 kings being corrupted by the dark's power and also strengthened Gwyn's paranoia. He was also the main cause for Oolacile's population to wake up and torture Manus, making his humanity go berserk and sending the entire kingdom into the Abyss. I will add something that many people forget regarding Kaathe is that hedid not intend for both New Londo and Oolacile to end up like that. He wanted the 4 kings and his knights to remember their past and retake their birthright, not go powerhungry and turn on one another. Same case with Oolacile, Kaathe told the population that one of their ascestors was under their kingdom and figured this will spark some sort of human renaissance of reaccepting the Dark. Once again that failed. I'll add more when I remember most of them again.
Love this channel. Just discovered it recently...your knowledge of mysticism and mythology is fantastic. Really brings a whole new outlook to media I’d previously thought I knew nearly everything about.
Thank you sir! I believe that video games can be a wonderful conduit for ancient knowledge. Not only that, it helps us understand our favorite stories on a deeper level.
@@maxderrat The pleasures mine! And I can’t agree more..I’ve actually gained a lot of my morals growing up playing games and absorbing the stories and themes from my favourites. Its easy to take for granted how important a form of media video games can be. Looking forward to more vids!
There are 3 "light" souls because they aren't actually "light" at all. In dark souls the image and model for boss souls aren't exactly indicative of what they actually look like, as we see in dark souls 3, the souls are now colored with their respective element. I realize that in the opening cutscene all of the souls are light, but I think its possible that this was just made for simplicity's sake, or time constraints. We can see in the DS1 DLC and every subsequent game that the souls are colored more, to represent their nature. And its also possible that the Dark Soul didn't even come from the first flame, but rather was the flame's shadow, or its fuel. But your theory is just as likely. What I would like to know is how the First Flame came into existence in the first place, and for what reason? Was it the primordial serpents? Was it nature? Gwyn's soul is that of Light, the Pygmy's, Dark, Nito's, Death, and The Witch's, Life. This is alluded to in the opening cutscene, referred to as "Disparity" and is demonstrated through the game. As we see Nito oversees all death, The witch became a lifebed for demonkind, etc etc. Gwyn also hated humans because he was afraid of losing his own power and his own time that he fought so hard for. One thing I should also mention is that Dark embodies forms associated with the other Lord Souls. We have dark pyromancies, sorceries, and miracles. And we also have the Abyss manipulating people's humanity and turning them into a different species, seen in Manus and the Bloatheads, which is similar to the Chaos Flame, which spawned demonkind, and turned its creator itself into a Demon, or, Life-Bed of Chaos. It really does seem that the two are two sides of the same coin, and similarly, are both powered by Humanity. Chaos weapons and Abyssal weapons alike. god damnit thanny.
Pretty much this. The part about all souls being depicted as light could be attributed to them just reacting and burning when they are exposed, outside the body. Souls were taken from the first flame after all, they are its fuel.
I believe it all goes back to Seath. Seath was before the flame, being an ancient dragon, yet HE was the ACTUAL first disparity. In my view that first flame is like the big bang theory...I dont believe a certain catalyst ignited it...it was Seath's tie to mortality because of his lack..It was Seath's rage in my view
@@25lighters91 That Big Bang analogy may tie into the origin of the First Flame more than you'd think. As it among the many theories of the origin of the universe, one posits that it's possibly an eternal one. Where it begins with the Big Bang, falls with the Big Crunch, and goes back with another Big Bang making it a constant cycle. And among the many theories of the Dark Soul universes, the idea of cycles is a common one. This implied with the Usurp the Flame end of DSIII, where it suggests that neither age is able to be permanent and that the Flame will eventually die bringing Dark, and that embers will still remain leading to Light. Making an eternal universe where there is no true beginning, only being
@@25lighters91 Seath was born the way he was after the flame. The nature of the dragons also started to change after that. The everlasting ones were.... killed and their decendants became lowly drakes.
@@panos3320 Because truly I believe the Flame was not before Seath in fact they never shed light on his birth much..but my understanding was the age of ancients ruled by dragons explicitly lacked that spark of lets says purposeful light and mostly uniform with its beings. Until Seath who was disparity and opposite of everything a dragon was considered including his abilities. The fact that he didn't even want anything to do with the first Flame and it's latent powers stood out to me as his soul was gifted, but not needed and probably not by his request
That's awesome. Never really thought of Velka that way, went right over my head. Now I wanna go back n use her int rapier. Dx Also, at time of posting, this video has gotten one thousand views an hour since upload. Which is kinda fkin crazy. A testament to the channel, most certainly.
I noticed that on the door you open to gwynevere's room there is a symbol of a lion with what looks like a serpent in its mouth which could support your theory on gwyn being the demiurge
I have no idea if anyone else has made the comparison but watching the ending of your video I just realized the pilgrim butterflies have the same look as the butterfly from the first dark souls one game with all the tendrils coming down
Great video, the series as a whole has so much potential for good discussion. Each video you have made on it has added more amazing content to it. Thanks
I cliked on this as a dark souls infusiast not expecting to learn anything new, but this has been very educational has a pleasure to veiw, and justified my ongoing adicion to this series 😅
I for one wouldn't personally want content on the quaternity because I've already read the original texts by Jung. However, I'm sure it will help a lot of people, so do it for those who haven't. The dark humanity being Satanael, the firstborn of God, banished and repressed, is an amazing find. If only I'd have played ds1 after I read Jung, then maybe I'd have seen it too.
The only thing I would disagree with is the Lord Souls. The one held by the Witch of Izalith is Life, while Nito has Death. Gywn holds Light while the pygmy has Dark. So it is balanced in that sense, each of the three opposing forces having motives to hold back the Dark Soul of Humanity from taking over. Nito requires things to die, the Witch being consumed because she attempted to create a new first flame (new life), and Gywn because he fears the dark. Otherwise, frankly I never considered the parallels between the series and gnosticism. Very impressive. Loved the video as usual.
To me gwynns soul was the light soul, humanity is the dark soul, chaos was the life soul and nitos was the death soul, with nitos and humanity being comparable, seeming nitos realm is dark, similar to the abyss, which I don't find a coincidence
Technically it is: - The Light Soul (Gwyn) - The Dark Soul (Pygmy) - The Life Soul (Izalith) - The Death Soul (Nito) It's the representation of Disparity that was brought about with the first flame.
Sophia is a really important figure that needs her own video. She informs us about how relate to the divine in ways we couldnt comprehend otherwise. I just finished the script for a 32 page video essay today thatll upload soon about what Silent Hill 2 and Crime and Punishment teach us about redemption. Dostoyevsky wrote a character that exactly describes Sophia. Guess what her name is! She's nicknamed sonya, but her name is: Sophya Semyonovna Marmeladov. I had to trim LOTS of what i had to say, but i REALLY think she deserves a series of videos on her own
Humans were born of the blood of Tiamat in Babylonian myth after her being slayed by Marduk, if I recall correctly, being essentially born with a dark or demon soul and literally of demon blood.
I just discovered this: the embers in dark souls 3 is the equivalent for humanity in earlier dark souls games, but the embers in dark souls 3 are burning, signifieng that humanity has been linked with fire, maybe forever
There is still humanity unembered in 3. It's just that our character is an unkindled and doesn't function the same way undeads do. He can't even hollow normally. His kind gain power from the fire that is "stored" in those embers, similar to how the linking with the lords of cinder works in that game.
great video. i've been thinking about dark souls as an analogy for production cycles, from a marxist perspective. gwyn stands in as a capitalist, able to claim control simply by owning the means, and is terrified at the idea that the lower classes, humanity, would enact a revolution. while it isn't explicitly stated, it must have been humanity that build his kingdoms for him, and the process of hollowing, of being driven to insanity by losing all purpose, even amidst such beautiful infrastructure, fits very well with the alienation of workers in developed economies.
Really am appreciating your new takes on the souls series. So much of the community gets caught up in the text in game that they fail to explore the causal roots that inspire them. The way you show it gives it a palpability, meaning all things made by human is a direct link and reflection of humanity. Basically I was tired , "Hey i'm going to talk about the world repeating it's mistakes and beings lording over a 'lesser people' and forcing them into cults that are in direct conflict with their interests, but i'll keep the politics out of it." It's like, taking the "high road" is not only mentally childish but also detracts the inherit purpose of art interpretation. P.S When it comes to Metal Gear you like the only person who goes beyond saying that the game is complex and very inspired. What? Oh no, there's no way we could've predicted the control of disinformation and the widespread conflict incentive that is the war economy...crazy...what a coincidence...
I love your videos. You definitely get a Christmas like from me! Could you do a video on Gynn's unnamed son and how it compares to similar characters in myth?
I would love to hear more about humans completing the trinity. I have been having this idea of how 4 and 7 represent complete numbers, and how 3 and 6 are incomplete. Great video!
Like it. Me and my brother (we were once deep intrested in occult stuff and gnosticism) were thinking after playing DS series about Miyazaki's vision and always repeting time, after time "This guy knows something...". So if this is not only my (and brother's) theory... there is something in it i think. I think Velka, Painted World, dragon crossbreeds can be a key to understand his vision (but there is still lot of missing informations). They were unwanted im Gwyn's picture of the world but resolution (of DS story) comes from this source (Painter, Painted World, painting by Dark Souls etc.) .
i subscribed because i really like video games with deep meaning like Silent Hill 2 and Spec Ops The Line. honestly your contents are constructed so well and narrated perfectly. i hope you keep the english subtitle though..
I was under the impression that only Gwyn had a Light Soul and that although it wasn't stated, Nito had the Death Soul and the Witch of Izalith had the Life Soul.
Yes but the the light, life and death soul are all allied in the age of fire, while the dark soul foreshadows and acts towards the next age, the age of dark.
Great vid. You should make an alchemist video on how to not be depressed for highly intelligent people. I feel like a Bloodborne character with massive insight but easily could go mad.
this helped me understand an unrelated thing, on the text towards the creative nothing of novatorre , specifically the cross explanation with the 4 souls, for novatorre the Antichrist and the inverted cross puts humanity on top where it considers it deserves to be as life rejecting death, struggle rejecting the life denial surrender as passage to the inmaterial and the lady life in novatorre to who the Antichrist screams "let's start again" before it decides to go with christ being sophia. if i could i would give you money (not because i consider it the best i could give you but given the distance that must separate us would be the most useful thing in this economic model to help you ease the path to get something you really want) for helping me understand this most clearly even if it was unintentionally
I like to believe Gwyn's fear of the dark and humanity were more righteous than everyone keeps saying. During the campaign against the tyrannous dragons, Gwyn would clearly see the Abyss humanity used to create their arms. He would see how it rends the world it touches, and realize the danger it it threatens to the coming age of light. A good king protects the people. I don't believe it says or shows anywhere in game that Gwyn was actually selfish. It only talk and peers here and there about how he tried to stop the dark and humanity from overtaking the Age of Light. After the tyrannous dragons are defeated comes a world where many living creatures blossom and flourish. Would a good king not fight nature to to keep the kingdom in prosperity? Would a good lord not sacrifice even his own life to save his people... Gwyn did not even simply wipe out humans, like he and the gods probably could have. He merely put them at a distance, and even gave them one of his own daughters, all so that there would be peace; and even then, you see that he tried to invite humans closer. The undead burg, Oolacile, and New Londo are prime examples, clearly once rife with human life in Gwyn's light. Why fix what isn't broken? But humans are greedy... humans are forever unsatisfied. Why live in peace with others, when you can have it all? The pygmies connived; they coaxed the Abyss, and lead it toward the gods. The primordial serpents told tales to rile up the darkness in humanity. If Oolacile fell to the Abyss, New Londo would very well fall the same... but Gwyn acted. Gwyn said "No"... Gwyn said "I will not put the peace and prosperity of all living creatures into jeopardy, just for one species"... and humanity just kept coming; their devouring Abyss. They are the one's who crave power; not Gwyn. An example of perhaps the only human who truly understands humanity... Patches. One who made it to the end of the world. He despises clerics. They claim to serve the gods, but he does not trust them. They speak miracles, likely only for the powers they receive, rather than in praise for the actual tales they hold; just like the player themselves. You never get to read the actual tales told in miracles; you only use them for what they can do for you. Patches: "Every age, it seems, is tainted by the greed of men. Rubbish, to one such as I, devoid of all worldly wants! Hmmm, I dunno, maybe it's just the way we are. I'll stick you in my prayers. A fine dark soul, to you." EDIT: I've left comments like this on several videos, including Vaati's lore dumps. This view on the story will likely be buried, unheard, and forgotten by humans who don't want to admit they are, in all likelihood, the bad guy in the Dark Souls series.
10:00 - You're not wrong about the quaternity stuff, but I would wonder if there's a triplicate separation of humanity as symbolized within the game. There's an abundance of esoteric symbolism for triangles overlapping triangles. Edit: For what it's worth, I've never played Dark Souls, so I don't know if this could be something as simple as character selection options.
Velka is such a mysterious Goddess. But after delving into the little lore, you can almost sense her presence just out of view as you play. Its an interesting sensation
She's also stated to be a heretical deity rather than a rogue deity in japanese.
@@theonewhoismany8072 I believe its because unlike the other Lords she doesn’t got her power from the
First Flame.
@@IronForce-ff2qx mind blown
kinda wanna know if there's a reason why velka = debt in finnish language.
@@theonewhoismany8072 as ironForce pointed out... she is a genuine Goddess ( same as Allfather Lloyd that is mentioned in some descriptions )... not a "self made" Goddess..like the Gwyn and his croonies.
And yes she is "heretical" because whole game is ( games are ) from perspective of Gwyn and bunch... "angels to one, demons to other"... whole world in indoctrinated in "linking of fire" shennanigans and is deeply ingrained that alternative is "evil" and "dark"... when in fact the darkness would allow for "tiny flames to appear in the darkness carrying the flame of lords past..." but would made current world and its lords the past and not the present what the continuous linking of the fire is doing.
The dialogue of kaathe in the english version is wrong. in the japanese he says:
" So,i will tell you the truth openly.
Once,at the begining of fire,
the ancestor of your people found a fourth soul after the ancient lords.
The soul of dark.The ancestor of your people acquired the soul of dark and waited for after the fire.Eventually,the fire fades and only dark remains. In that case,it would be an age of your people,of dark."
In the english version Kaathe makes it seem like the age of dark came but with Gwyn's sacrifice it got reverted to the age of fire when actually it was on the verge of coming.
This translation also seems to omit the idea of the Dark Soul being unique among its fellow Lord souls.
Where exactly did you get your translation? I'm currently working on a theory about this and knowing more about the original text would help out a lot.
@@appleseed8282 th-cam.com/video/5gIltNd3C_s/w-d-xo.html
From 2:13 onward
@@theonewhoismany8072 Thanks 乁(●‿●)ㄏ
@@appleseed8282 i advise to watch the entire video .
@@James_Rustled i've already linked the video above
1:40 I just realized that in the intro, they come from the dark before they find the souls. So it's almost like everything was birthed from the dark, and then when the fire fades the dark consumes and rebirths everything again
I would actually like to hear more about the quaternaty.(or however you spell it)
I second this motion.
i to
Dito
Thirthided
YHWH is a Trinity.
Humans are a Duonity.
Animals are a Unonity.
How interesting that you show several images and depictions of the Demiurge as a snake-like deity who manipulates mankind, and at the same time we have Kingseeker Frampt who is another snake-like entity working with Gwyn and manipulating the Undead to perpetuate the Age of the Gods. Coincidence?
Another awesome Dark Souls video! While the other games may not have dealt so heavily with the theistic/gnostic themes of the first Dark Souls, I would still love to hear your thoughts on Dark Souls 2 and 3 and some of the things mentioned in those games!
You delved into the religious origins and inspirations for the themes of disparity and humanity in Dark Souls, but I was wondering if you would also be willing to do some videos about Hollowing and the prevalent themes of the loss of self in the Dark Souls series? In all the games there is the common fate shown with all Undead that is Hollowing, which mainly involves the Undead slowly losing their sanity/sense of purpose and identity and becoming mindless husks. I would love to hear your thoughts and interpretations about this, as quite a few people liken this process to something similar to depression or Alzheimer's.
Just a few thoughts and suggestions. I'll still look forward to any video you make. Have a merry Christmas and New Year! Hopefully 2021 doesn't suck as much as 2020!
Hey man! I still fully intend to do videos that cover more about DS2 and 3. It's just going to take some time because I have so many other projects I have to take care of.
You too have a great Christmas and New Year.
I love how Max can join so simple things in so complicate and gorgeous answers,which has similarity w real things,and that makes me feel even more..meaningfull,don' know,but is sawsome..recently i stumble upon a something that I believe has more hidden lores than game itself..ds cinematics and intro videos..and I can extract two things
1. There's a difference between Chosen Undead and Undead that shall be chosen..is it?
2. If you look close for ds opening cinematics,in Witches of Izalith there are sparks of cinders bursting near them (sign of a bonfire),same as for Gwyn but not for Nito..guess how many pigmy has,so easely forgotten!
Hope ya doin' well,Max..let's spice up that 2021..lol
? Kaathe is another serpent looking exactly like Frampt…
Frampt isn't perpetuating the Age of the Gods, since it had already ended when Gwyn linked the fire, when the gods left Anor Londo. DS3 explicitly differentiates it from the Age of Fire.
The dark souls lore community really needed your take on the whole thing.
Are you being sincere? Forgive me if my autism is making me paranoid. :X
@@maxderrat I think he is, knowing the lore without knowing a possible scaffolding that put everything together is just knowing... lore, text.
@@maxderrat To be honest, I think the same. I feel like a lot of work as been put in place to uncover and link various pieces of lore through theories over the years, but I haven't seen a lot about comparing the events of Dark Souls to real world myths to gain more understanding of the game's world.
In that sense, your extensive research through various religions (and especially Hermeticism in my opinion) is a breath of fresh air.
@@maxderrat i agree. The community interpretation has been stuck for a while.
NO ONE has interpreted the saga as a work or literature, as a myth. They just stop at references but never say what do they could mean (symbolic interpretation).
And with DS3 is even sadder because the lore is a lot more dense than DS1.
It is a shame but is normal when a work of art gets popular... They just care about pvp and builds....
So, yeah, your take is needed. Myasaki didn't created this things out of thin air. As well as berserk, the work of Miyazaki exudes mythology, anthropology, psychology and philosophy. SO LET'S DIG IN.
@@maxderrat from my personal perspective, this is sincere, because i have the same sentiment as op!
You were SO close with pronouncing my name at the end! Good job 😚
Video game: exist
Max Derat: Is this Jung reference
Max I know you're often self-critical but to be able to produce quality of THIS magnitude consistently is just amazing. What a video dude, thank you!
I still don't know a lot about Velka, and it's strange that she's a goddess even though she doesn't have a light nor a dark soul (that I know of), but still punish the gods. As if she's emending for a mistake.
People of Carim (Velka’s followers)
believed that Lords are pretender gods who simply claimed the power of the First Flame and Velka is an actual Goddess who punishes the pretenders.
@@IronForce-ff2qx that would also explain why lautrec murders the firelink keeper, as it would be an entity connected to keeping the age of pretender gods (fire) in power, so to speak. Interesting.
I've been wondering this too. How is Velka a "Goddess" without a Soul from the First Flame? My first thought, although radical was, "Furtive Pygmy!" Hmm, hmmm.
I always considered the dark soul to represent Jung's shadow. And that the First Sin is the sin of rejection of our shadow.
That's a very good perspective. That actually ties into the psychology of trinities and quaternities, which I guess I'm going to be discussing in a future video. :P
Huh. That really does feel spot on. Specifically the fear of the lords of the dark taking over. But then the Lords would have to symbolize the self, or maybe just the persona and the player - the self? Or the Lords as ego. Huh.. Neat.
The First Sin also applies to Gwynn, because he rejects his own Shadow, the shadow of humanity. He does so in such a way that the two halves, his ego and the shadow are at constant war with each other, the gods and humanity. The reconciliation would be the Age of Fire giving way to the Age of Dark, but we all know how well that goes with Gwynn. Hell he completely separated the Pygmies and banished them to a city outside the realm of his own, so he could control them through Filianore and hide them from the rest of the world, the Ringed City.
@@sudoggs Gwyn has no relation to humanity tho. Humanity are literally born of the dark element. Gwyn and the "gods" are of the light. Literal light
Humans were of the same element as the ancient dragons. He knew that the dark would rise for his thrown just as his and the other lords light took the throne from the dragons
@@maxderrat Also consider the Usurp the Fire Ending of DS3, *spoilers*
After embracing your dark soul, instead of linking the fire and perpetuating the first sin, the player takes the fire into themself and leads humanity towards a new kind of dawn. The hardest to attain ending, but the most rewarding as it promises some kind of actual change, or synthesis.
The dopamine rush that occurs when you see a new Max Derrat video!
*hearts*
@@maxderrat Are you familiar with Sir. Penrose's theory about the connections between consciousness and the quantum realm?
I think you could make quite the interesting video about that theory and Jung's ideas.
I personally believe a lot of Jung's thoughts would get a lot more attention from mainstream researchers, should more tangible evidence regarding that theory surface.
Any plans to make content about H.P Lovecraft and/or Junji Ito?
Sorry for all the questions, you are one of my favourite content creators on this platform got a bit carried away (:
Happy Holidays from Sweden
I would truly like to see a episode of these topics as well. With your attention to detail and in depth research it would be interesting to see where you take us.
As someone who studies Gnosticism, it's also worth noting that the Demiurge sort of represents this over reliance of control that many Anti-Gnostic thinkers were a victim of at the time.
Gnostic ideas basically got people thinking about humanities place in the greater cosmos, something that the more organized authoritarian parts of the Church did not like because they viewed it as impractical.
The Demiurge itself is a God that needs constant praise from others in order to feel worthy. In The Apocryphon of John, the Demiurge creates multiple celestial beings called Archons that basically exist to perpetuate the Demiurges lies and act out his wrath in case anyone refuses his "Salvation".
When humanity begins to question the validity the Demiurge (Because the Demiurge rule isn't absolute no matter how hard he tries) the Archons do their best to suppress and assault humanity to submission. Eventually though according to Gnostic scripture, this material universe is insignificant compared to the greater cosmos and the Demiurge will lose control and depending on the text, will be swallowed back into the Heavens or be left to the unknown chaos he fears so much.
This really works hand in hand with Gwyn. The Dark Itself is something to be afraid as we see what it does to different enemies in the game but it's kind of clear that what Gwyn is most afraid of is his eventual downfall. He's afraid of returning to the place he came from, what's worse is he then projects that fear and resentment onto humanity. Deep down he knows this is inevitable but he's still doing what he's doing for the sake of some delusion that a miracle will happen.
That's something people forget too. Gwyn and all the other Lords came from the Dark. Nito, Izalith, Gwyn, the Pygmy. Sure, their souls might have been of light but they all came from the same place so it's interesting that Gwyn has such a hatred towards the Pygmies children.
There are several problems with this video.
First, the First Sin isn't the linking of the fire by Gwyn. Gwyn put a seal of fire on humanity, which gave them the mortal and fleeting form we know as "human" by sealing the dark within them. Without that seal, they would be either hollows or pygmies.
The lords didn't have animosity towards humanity, they just recognized the danger of an Age of Dark towards everyone, not just themselves. Most humans don't want to go back to being immortal hollows.
So Gwyn didn't cause human beings to suffer any more than he allowed them to thrive. Even Aldia admits that the fleeting form he gave them is better than the other option, his problem with it being that it's a lie. Whether Gwyn did this for his people's self-interest, or humanity's, or both, is never stated.
As for his origin, it's not "incomprehensible". His race was one of the races that appeared from the dark in the intro. But while humans and pygmies got pieces of the dark soul, the others like the gods and giants didn't. We can deduce the gods' civilization developed faster than humanity's, since they came to be regarded as gods, study fire, build giant cities, the archives, learn magic that would eventually be taught as miracles, craft advanced armor and weapons specialized in killing dragons... Also, they seem to have not only ruled over humanity through religion. The statue of Gwyn and the pygmy in Ringed City and the Four Kings also imply they chose the rulers of the human realms from very early on, a la divine right of kings or mandate from heaven.
Gwyn was just a member of that race who found the greatest soul, and either became king or was already the king.
And Lloyd existed. He wasn't the "allfather", that was a localization change. In the original Japanese, he was the "chief deity", the successor of Gwyn after he linked the fire and all of his children either renounced or were deemed unsuitable for the title. That is until DS3, where Gwyndolin announces himself as a man and becomes the new head god of the Way of White, as the original description of Sullyvahn's soul states. After that, Lloyd lost all his relevancy.
As for why the Dark Soul is the only Lord Soul different from the others, it's probably because it represents human nature in all its potential failings, while the other souls are associated with spiritual ideas and concepts that can guide or pacify it, like religion, ambition, or notions of an afterlife.
Without something to take their place as guiding forces, humans are destined to fall back to their hollowed state, which is why every time the dark takes hold anywhere, it corrupts that place and turns its people into monsters. It's also why even tho the dark is the element of mankind, it's straight-up said to be a poison to humans.
DS is a surprisingly well-done analogy of the Nietzschean death of god.
I would actually love an explanation of the trinity/quaternity. I grew up in a Christian household but these symbolic things are just accepted and no one really knows the origin anymore. It feels somewhat connecting to past humans who also saw similar patterns in our world.
Looks like Persona 5 and Dark Souls have more in common than first thought
I think of Demon's Souls' Old One as a categorical demiurge.
He didn't create anything. He was just way for god to punish humans if they became too obsessed with the soul arts.
This demon is only a punishment for people because they began to abuse magic. Magic in the world of de's uses the resource of the soul, although the soul itself is the source of self-consciousness without which a person is no different from an animal. And in fact, mass teaching of magic normalizes the creation of massive power-dependent drug addicts who spoil their souls.
I was always of the opinion that only 2 of the lord souls were "light" gwyn and izaliths souls were light specifically the light soul and the life soul respectively. The pygmy and nito were given the "dark" souls of dark for the pygmy and the soul of death for nito. I dont think nito cares if he is worshipped or if the age of fire continues, just that death continues to happen. So he is opposed to the pygmy not because of a threat of an age of dark but that it would make humans immortal. Because as we learn in later souls games the natural state of a human is to be a immortal hollow.
Another reason as to why I think nito is a dark figure is due to him having cloak made of humanity and unlike the other 2 lords domains his is cloaked in dark so dark that you actually need to find some way to bring light there. I find it hard to believe that a being with allegiance to the light would swathe himself and his realm in dark.
So while yes nito aids the two light soul bearers its for his own dark benefit. Which makes sense because in the game nito seems less like a character like how gwyn and izalith are but a force of nature. Nito seems single minded that death should continue, and he is not above working with those he opposes to ensure it.
btw nito's cloak is not supposed to be humanity or the dark. It's actually supposed to be a cloak of "Miasma." Apparently Nito went through a ton of redesigns because Miyazaki didn't like how it would look.
@@acasablanca6885 Very interesting do you have a link to those interviews? I'd love to read them.
Through the spells it's also possible to consider the opposite relationship, the light aligns with death and that life aligns with dark.
Although Gravelord Sword and Greatsword Dance require no faith, the both are considered miracle something with strong connections to the Light soul.
While on the other hand pyromancy (something with strong ties to life) often more relates to aspects of the Dark soul and humanity than it does the Light soul.
Such as Chaos pyromancy, which is scaled from Humanity.
Along with the fact that as you said; an age of dark is an age of the immortal man, something a lord of death would hate but something a Lord of Life would love.
The Ashen Hollow made a pretty decent theory going more into this, I'll link it here if you want:
th-cam.com/video/KvQUPdoABrA/w-d-xo.html
@@appleseed8282 An interesting theory, but I'm not so sure it certainly has merit but there's just some things that don't add up for me. All magics eventually got dark equivalents. Even in DS1 there were dark sorceries and sorcery was something created by Seath a being who aligned himself with the light. There's also miracles that can be called dark not including Nitos there is Karmic Justice
and Vow of Silence
. Both are miracles associated with the dark or occult(in DS1) goddess Velka. I think the rule for miracles in the souls series is that they have to come from a legendary figure since their supposedly tales of their exploits that through memorization the user can manifest lesser versions.
Also only chaos weapons scale with humanity not chaos pyromancies. It can also be argued that the reason certain chaos entities require humanity is that certain chaos beings are unstable and supplement their waning life with the life inside of humanity. For example Ceaseless Discharge while not dying from his instability he is ultimately hurt by his own lava without his ring. The fair lady is slowly dying and seems to use the humanity given to her by the chaos servants in order to prolong her life. Perhaps this is related to how when we as players pop a humanity we go back to full health?
That said I do think a bright flame can be produced by the dark however I think that flame is the Profaned Flame not the Chaos Flame.
I have watched a bit of the video you sent, I haven't got past the Velka is the witch of izalith part and for that I really don't see it. Izalith and Velka seem like very different and distinct entities. I will finish it later though.
@@ToddHimself Nito's Lord Soul is explicitly light and firey in-game, as opposed to beings like Manus and the humanity sprites being explicitly dark. Kaathe also refers to The Dark Soul (singular), being a fourth, unique soul, implying the other three are different. The age of dark is also called the age of man, not the age of Nito.
So I don't think there's anything to say Nito's Lord Soul is also a dark soul.
Incidentally in DS1 there was no "dark damage" - all dark magic was linked with physicality, with even the dark hand dealing 100% physical damage. The Occult movement attempted to steal Nito's power of death to kill the Gods and occult weapons (and Velka's karmic justice) deal magic damage, rather than physical (I believe gravelord sword dance also does magic but I couldn't find any references).
The reason chaos scales off of humanity is because of chaos' link to fire. Humanity makes for good kindling, as we see when offering humanity to kindle bonfires.
As always very interesting and yes a video on the trinities and quaternies would be fantastic
I always thought there were 4 lord souls.
Death, Dark, Light, and Life.
Witch of Izaltih: She carries the life soul, which is why she is associated with birth and chaos.
Nito: Death soul
Furtive Pygmy: Dark Soul
Gwyn: Light Soul
Yes, you're right about all that. But what also seems to be true is that the WoIzalith and Nito favor Gwyn and the Age of Fire over the Age of Dark... if their actions are anything to go by.
I appreciate the fresh perspective for a old game. You do great work, please keep it up. Hope your channel continues to grow.
You don´t have to defeat the 4 Kings early, you just need to beat them without speaking to Frampt after obtaining the lordvessel
For me, Gwyn imposed his light as the only kind of light when the game at the very end of DS3 tells you this is not the case, everything we see related to "light" from DS1 to DS3 has always been this yellow hued light, the same goes for light miracles, but then we see that during Gael's fight his fragments of the Dark Soul create this blue lightning coming from the sky, it's the only time ever we see such color attached to lightning or light for that matter.
Also, even though the kingdoms of light such as Lothric or Anor Londo have fallen into the dark, the ringed city, the home of humanity still has a sun.
I think that Gwyn didn't just fear an age of dark, he feared that his very own light would be replaced with another (maybe more powerful?), and thus he crated this "Dark" apocalypse for his followers to fear
We also have blue lightning in Dark Souls 2 in the mirror knight boss fight.I think Gwyn's light is more associated with the day,like the sun represents the passage of time,and it represents the blessing that we work with it and during night we rest,the dark age has none of this.
@@lordanonimmo7699 dark souls 2 has a lot of things that dont line up with miazaki's Lore, i wouldn't consider it
@@Skeleton_Pegasus Miyazaki himself said Dark souls 2 is canon,and Miyazaki himself write things that doesn't follow what he wrote before.
@@lordanonimmo7699 "Miyazaki himself said Dark souls 2 is canon"
Could you give a source for that?
"Miyazaki himself write things that doesn't follow what he wrote before.
"
Like what?
I'm genuinely curious.
@@lordanonimmo7699 an ancient dragon with a soul??? The abyss connected to the Ancient Dragons???? Ds2 lore has lots of inconsistencies
Another useful piece of Lloyd’s lore is that talismans named for him have the ability to stop the effects of estus. Estus seems to be a parallel to the elixir of life, healing undead and being the only thing that provides them with sustenance. So perhaps Lloyd actually held dominion over the ether of the universe
Something else I'd like to briefly touch on, and I thought you might be interested in, is that Dark Souls has a quaternity present, and in the Abyss. It is the 4 Kings. In all places, where Gwynn has decided to stem back the tide of the Dark, you find the quaternity thrown into the Abyss, much like Sophia may have been. Perhaps the 4 Kings symbolize their own turn to Velka and their acceptance of the Age of Dark, and in their heresy, Gwynn floods New Londo, how appropriate that the waters of the unconscious would be where he would condemn them.
Any proof Gwyn was the one who flooded New Londo?
I'm surprised Buddhism isn't discussed more with regard to the Souls games' theme of cycles, gradual spiritual growth over many lifetimes/ages and the pursuit of inner peace (both lore-wise and through gameplay) - not specifically for this video but just in general. I suppose it's more an overall thing than something one could link to specific details and characters though.
I think it’s great that there’s somebody who’s still making Dark Souls content, so I really do appreciate this video, but there are a few pretty important details that I think you missed.
Nito, Izalith, and Gwyn were not the forces of light against the dark soul. I believe you mistake Gwyn’s pride and ambition for hatred of the dark, where it is shown that he is an incredibly domineering god. He waged war with the dragons for dominion of the world, even though there is never an explanation for why they couldn’t coexist. Similarly, he waged war against Izalith because their creation of demons is detestable to him, and finally he subjugated the humans to serve him even though he was screwing them over. It wasn’t that he and the others conspired against humans, as Nito and Izalith are never said to have been against humans at all. In fact, many pyromancers were humans and were taught by the daughters of chaos, like Engyi.
I also think that you are incorrect about the First Sin, as I believe there is more evidence that the sin was his linking the flame to humanity, rather than extending the age of fire. This could certainly be disputed, but in my opinion because Velka is the goddess of sin, it seems to me that forcing them to become undead and lose their humanity seems worse than artificially lengthening the age of fire.
And finally, I think you give far too much credit to the validity of Kaathe’s dialogue. Considering he tempted both Oolacile and New Londo into destroying themselves with darkness and humanity, to say that he speaks truth is, in my opinion, extremely fallacious. He is somebody who shouldn’t be trusted, and even though he tells us the story about our ancestors and Gwyn’s cowardice, he could easily be manipulating and deceiving us.
These aren’t terribly large problems with your video, but I think that they are certainly inconsistent with the finer lore of the game. Just my opinion, of course I’m open for criticism! But thank you for continuing to discuss this game that we both love so much!
The king of the dragons is heavily associated with glutony, and they are extremely powerful creatures. No wonder they didn't want them to be the dominant power of the world.
He waged war against Izalith because the demons were a genuine threat to Lordran. It has nothing to do with detestability.
@@ibn_adham What threat did the demons pose to Lordran? How did they pose any threat at all? A claim could be made that they had the potential to invade, but there is absolutely nothing in the game or lore that shows that Izalith had malice towards the humans before Gwyn and his army of Black Knights waged war against it.
yep the first sin is the dark sign
Hell yeaaahhh!! Another bomb by Max!!!!!
I never put together that Velka would most likely be pissed at Gwyn for sinning in the first place. Really makes you think if she is Priscilla's mother.
That certainly explains why she's into occult weapons, huh
Always with the bomb content! I've been following since AION, and it's fascinating seeing the world from a new view.
We need a discussion of you, Uberboyo, and memeanalysis pronto!
Thank you Max.
It's cool to see a lore vid that's not 4 years old
Max -- thank you for making all of your videos. They've kept me going through this year, and it always brightens my day to see new content from you. I'm not always the best about communication, being autistic myself, but I pressured myself into writing this because you deserve to know what a difference you have made.
As an aside, my answer is always 'yes!' when you ask if we'd like to hear more on any subject.
Thank you thank you thank you Shira Lee. Don't worry... you will get more in the new year.
I always like the look on the face of the sun in the picture at 2:54. Seemingly looking at the dude all "hey man wtf u doin? Get back in here."
Just to be more precise, of the 4 lord souls, only Gwyn's is of the Light. It's like 4 cardinal point and each one is oppose to another. Neto has the lord soul of Death wich oppose the Izalith one : the soul of life. Neto doesn't care at all if we are in an age of Dark or an age of Light. As for Izalith, her motives are more obscure and subject to interpretation.
Edit : "[...]and with fire came disparity : Life and Death, Light and Dark [...]"
Light, dark, life, and death souls. Also, if the linking of the fire was the first sin, is that where Velka achieved godhood?
Quite fitting, as there was an occult rebellion against the gods in the lore.
Ah yes...The Dark Soul...The gentle darkness that is our humanity but also our curse...Seriously though, I'm glad you are covering this. I love the Soulsbourne series. Good job on the analysis as well! Keep it up!
I'm loving these a lot, so much from your videos that I've heard no one else talk about in the Souls community. Surprised Vaati isn't drooling all over these
You are giving a good twist into the saga.
Those details add a welcomed extra flavour to the lore.
Again, you have no idea of how latent the synchronicity happens when you just uploaded this video and the enduring moments I watched this video, including of the aspects of Gnostic Christianity within
No one seems to really answer the dilemma of God's existing BEFORE the four great souls were found. Velka, Flame God Flann, and The crying goddess Kaartha didn't receive imbued souls...yet they were almost ancient deities...Where did they come from and how did they become the gods that they were...Did they feel offended at the rise of what would seem as demigods and maybe this is why they usually work against them ?
Also I LOVE ALL your videos Max.....Sooooo grateful I found your channel
From my understanding, gods seem to just be big humans often either either strongly revered/worshiped, were in someway powerful, or related in someway to Gwyn and/or the Light Soul.
As for those you mention, they can be ancient while still being after the flame.
And the fact that their spoken in ways describing them as at least cognoscente suggest that they'd have to be, since the pygmys who approached the flame all seemed to be hollow.
So cool. You did it, bro! You made cool new modern Dark Souls related content! Refreshing! I loved every second, I'd love to hear more about the Quaternity. Thank you! Great video, your very talented. I felt very engaged
This vid was an amazing unique look into a game that I really couldnt believe could get more interesting and compelling. Really looking forward to the Bloodborne vids
@4:33 "Any of the other characters who challenged Gwyn's hegemony received vicious punishments. One of which we will discuss momentarily."
I think you left this part out, but I'm really curious which event(s) you were referring to!
(You showed the clip of opening the floodgates of New Londo during this part. But, Gwyn rewarded New Londo with a fragment of his own soul just before sacrificing himself at the Kiln of the First Flame. Gwyn could not have had anything to do with the decision to sacrifice the city as he was already a hollow Lord of Cinder by the time the city was flooded.)
People tend to immediately assume everything bad that happened in Lordran was Gwyn's doing. New Londo was probably flooded by the firstborn before he exiled himself.
Another A+ video, great job Max.
It would be great to see Max apply Gnostic influence analysis to the deep lore of Destiny. There are tenable parallels between the Demiurge and The Traveler, light as debatably 'objectively' good, and even the deep esoterica of Alpha Lupi, despite being much maligned in Beyond Light.
I’ve never noticed that, I’d love to see that too. Especially since Destiny is one of my all time favorite games.
I find it a bit wild that your videos are the first ones on Dark Souls I have seen that referenced existing religions and creation myths and how clear there are connections to them.
I would love to hear more as this is a fascinating and illuminating angle to approach the souls trilogy I think.
The amount of research and the connections you make is indescribable man, dark souls with theology and Jungian psychology, go figure. Bravo.
I really appreciate these videos because the dude is obviously very knowledgeable about history and religion but less knowledgeable about dark souls. It's a very refreshing perspective.
Most souls videos are videogame enthusiasts trying to pick up these huge topics. It seems much easier for a religious/historical enthusiast to pick up the lore of one game than for a videogame enthusiast to pick up the vast array of religious and historical dogma.
Yes, I would love to hear more
Interesting take on the lore and you have points with the parallels with the demiurge to Gwyn but from what I see, you've just recently dipped your toes in the first game. I'm excited to see you go through the 2 remaining ones and see your thoughts change. But I do want to point out a few things that you might've mistaken or don't know yet.
1st is that the notion of only 1 dark soul and 3 light souls. With how Kaathe delivered the dialogue I can understand the confusion but to correct, the souls that Gravelord Nito and the Witch of Izalith obtained are not "Souls of Light" but rather their own separate thing. Nito gained the Death Soul which allows him to grant death and introduced the concept of death to the Everlasting Dragons during the intro. The Witch gained the Life Soul which allowed her to manipulate the world around her, hence why Pyromancy (a magic that requires faith and intelligence) is able to manipulate things like poison, the earth and even other beings despite manifesting usually as fire.
Gwyn was the one who gained the Light Soul, which aside from manipulating lighting, also allowed him to control time (light = time in the souls series). And the Pygmy found the Dark Soul. To add to this, the "alliance" Gwyn had with the other 2 was shaky at best. Nito mostly kept to himself in his necropolis in deep slumber while he let his Gravelords bring death like grim reapers to the masses. The Witch of Izalith (depending on which side you believe) used the Life Soul to recreate the First Flame which backfired and turned all of Izalith into demons or used the Life Soul to give birth to the demons, her own children. (the latter seems to have more evidence as not only did the ruins of Izalith fit for massive creatures but Queelag also lovingly embraces her spider half with one of her attacks). And if you've read the Black Knight armor descriptions, Gwyn actually invaded Izalith, killed majority of them and even enslaved the inhabitants, the demons, to guard places or serve as trials.
2nd is that Gwyn isn't fully a "Demiurge". Gwyn despite he and his children are called gods, are more akin to just another species rather than an all encompasing force. If anything, the souls all 4 lords obtained and the Abyss itself are more deific than them as they persisted in all 3 games long after all 4 are dead. Gwyn and his children's actions were not brought on by craving power and obedience to those below them but rather out of Gwyn's own fear of the Dark and Humanity. Gwyn along with his fellow lords killed all of the everlasting dragons and ended the Grey Age of stagnancy and nothingness and ushered in a new Age of Fire AKA the age of creation and prosperity. This age allowed for Time, Life and Death to govern the world.
When Gwyn saw the horror of the Dark, and the Abyss thanks to the primeval man/pygmies that fought with him during the Dragon War, it scared him. And finding out that his Age of Fire that he and his comrades fought so hard for will end eventually, he sought ways to prevent this from happening. This action is more human than god, showing that Gywn was no different from humans who in DS3 even mirrored his 1st Sin by attempting to usurp the First Flame for themselves in one of the endings.
3rd is while all Kaathe says is true, he was the one that caused New Londo to be drowned thanks to the 4 kings being corrupted by the dark's power and also strengthened Gwyn's paranoia. He was also the main cause for Oolacile's population to wake up and torture Manus, making his humanity go berserk and sending the entire kingdom into the Abyss. I will add something that many people forget regarding Kaathe is that hedid not intend for both New Londo and Oolacile to end up like that. He wanted the 4 kings and his knights to remember their past and retake their birthright, not go powerhungry and turn on one another. Same case with Oolacile, Kaathe told the population that one of their ascestors was under their kingdom and figured this will spark some sort of human renaissance of reaccepting the Dark. Once again that failed.
I'll add more when I remember most of them again.
Love this channel. Just discovered it recently...your knowledge of mysticism and mythology is fantastic. Really brings a whole new outlook to media I’d previously thought I knew nearly everything about.
Thank you sir! I believe that video games can be a wonderful conduit for ancient knowledge. Not only that, it helps us understand our favorite stories on a deeper level.
@@maxderrat The pleasures mine! And I can’t agree more..I’ve actually gained a lot of my morals growing up playing games and absorbing the stories and themes from my favourites. Its easy to take for granted how important a form of media video games can be. Looking forward to more vids!
There are 3 "light" souls because they aren't actually "light" at all. In dark souls the image and model for boss souls aren't exactly indicative of what they actually look like, as we see in dark souls 3, the souls are now colored with their respective element. I realize that in the opening cutscene all of the souls are light, but I think its possible that this was just made for simplicity's sake, or time constraints. We can see in the DS1 DLC and every subsequent game that the souls are colored more, to represent their nature. And its also possible that the Dark Soul didn't even come from the first flame, but rather was the flame's shadow, or its fuel. But your theory is just as likely. What I would like to know is how the First Flame came into existence in the first place, and for what reason? Was it the primordial serpents? Was it nature?
Gwyn's soul is that of Light, the Pygmy's, Dark, Nito's, Death, and The Witch's, Life. This is alluded to in the opening cutscene, referred to as "Disparity" and is demonstrated through the game. As we see Nito oversees all death, The witch became a lifebed for demonkind, etc etc.
Gwyn also hated humans because he was afraid of losing his own power and his own time that he fought so hard for.
One thing I should also mention is that Dark embodies forms associated with the other Lord Souls. We have dark pyromancies, sorceries, and miracles. And we also have the Abyss manipulating people's humanity and turning them into a different species, seen in Manus and the Bloatheads, which is similar to the Chaos Flame, which spawned demonkind, and turned its creator itself into a Demon, or, Life-Bed of Chaos. It really does seem that the two are two sides of the same coin, and similarly, are both powered by Humanity. Chaos weapons and Abyssal weapons alike.
god damnit thanny.
Pretty much this. The part about all souls being depicted as light could be attributed to them just reacting and burning when they are exposed, outside the body. Souls were taken from the first flame after all, they are its fuel.
I believe it all goes back to Seath. Seath was before the flame, being an ancient dragon, yet HE was the ACTUAL first disparity. In my view that first flame is like the big bang theory...I dont believe a certain catalyst ignited it...it was Seath's tie to mortality because of his lack..It was Seath's rage in my view
@@25lighters91 That Big Bang analogy may tie into the origin of the First Flame more than you'd think.
As it among the many theories of the origin of the universe, one posits that it's possibly an eternal one.
Where it begins with the Big Bang, falls with the Big Crunch, and goes back with another Big Bang making it a constant cycle.
And among the many theories of the Dark Soul universes, the idea of cycles is a common one.
This implied with the Usurp the Flame end of DSIII, where it suggests that neither age is able to be permanent and that the Flame will eventually die bringing Dark, and that embers will still remain leading to Light.
Making an eternal universe where there is no true beginning, only being
@@25lighters91 Seath was born the way he was after the flame. The nature of the dragons also started to change after that. The everlasting ones were.... killed and their decendants became lowly drakes.
@@panos3320
Because truly I believe the Flame was not before Seath in fact they never shed light on his birth much..but my understanding was the age of ancients ruled by dragons explicitly lacked that spark of lets says purposeful light and mostly uniform with its beings. Until Seath who was disparity and opposite of everything a dragon was considered including his abilities. The fact that he didn't even want anything to do with the first Flame and it's latent powers stood out to me as his soul was gifted, but not needed and probably not by his request
That's awesome. Never really thought of Velka that way, went right over my head. Now I wanna go back n use her int rapier. Dx
Also, at time of posting, this video has gotten one thousand views an hour since upload. Which is kinda fkin crazy. A testament to the channel, most certainly.
Love your videos man! Always compelling!
Finally someone brings up the gnostic connection!!!
Also, YES! Please make a video about the Quaternity!
Please make more of this! This is amazing.
happy holidays max, fantastic analysis as always
I noticed that on the door you open to gwynevere's room there is a symbol of a lion with what looks like a serpent in its mouth which could support your theory on gwyn being the demiurge
I have no idea if anyone else has made the comparison but watching the ending of your video I just realized the pilgrim butterflies have the same look as the butterfly from the first dark souls one game with all the tendrils coming down
This is an exceptional Gnostic interpretation of Dark Souls! Absolutely fascinating.
Great video, the series as a whole has so much potential for good discussion. Each video you have made on it has added more amazing content to it. Thanks
the conversation we would have about mythology would be legendary.
Great work on this one! My favorite of your Souls series so far. Interested to hear more about trinities and quaternities!
I cliked on this as a dark souls infusiast not expecting to learn anything new, but this has been very educational has a pleasure to veiw, and justified my ongoing adicion to this series 😅
I for one wouldn't personally want content on the quaternity because I've already read the original texts by Jung. However, I'm sure it will help a lot of people, so do it for those who haven't.
The dark humanity being Satanael, the firstborn of God, banished and repressed, is an amazing find. If only I'd have played ds1 after I read Jung, then maybe I'd have seen it too.
Omg please make more videos on alchemy! You've really opened up a rabbithole for me with the soulsborne videos.
The only thing I would disagree with is the Lord Souls. The one held by the Witch of Izalith is Life, while Nito has Death. Gywn holds Light while the pygmy has Dark. So it is balanced in that sense, each of the three opposing forces having motives to hold back the Dark Soul of Humanity from taking over. Nito requires things to die, the Witch being consumed because she attempted to create a new first flame (new life), and Gywn because he fears the dark.
Otherwise, frankly I never considered the parallels between the series and gnosticism. Very impressive. Loved the video as usual.
Merry Christmas Max!
To me gwynns soul was the light soul, humanity is the dark soul, chaos was the life soul and nitos was the death soul, with nitos and humanity being comparable, seeming nitos realm is dark, similar to the abyss, which I don't find a coincidence
There was one light soul, Gwyn’s. The other two souls are the Life soul (Witch of Izalith) and the Death soul (Nito). With fire came disparity.
Please Max, more on trinities and such!!
Technically it is:
- The Light Soul (Gwyn)
- The Dark Soul (Pygmy)
- The Life Soul (Izalith)
- The Death Soul (Nito)
It's the representation of Disparity that was brought about with the first flame.
Yes, I would like more on this trinity/quaternity idea.
I expect to see the usage of the Axiom of Maria if you make a video on quaternities. Great video!
Sophia is a really important figure that needs her own video. She informs us about how relate to the divine in ways we couldnt comprehend otherwise. I just finished the script for a 32 page video essay today thatll upload soon about what Silent Hill 2 and Crime and Punishment teach us about redemption. Dostoyevsky wrote a character that exactly describes Sophia. Guess what her name is! She's nicknamed sonya, but her name is:
Sophya Semyonovna Marmeladov.
I had to trim LOTS of what i had to say, but i REALLY think she deserves a series of videos on her own
Happy to see every new video :)
Love your videos, Max.
Humans were born of the blood of Tiamat in Babylonian myth after her being slayed by Marduk, if I recall correctly, being essentially born with a dark or demon soul and literally of demon blood.
Pistis Sophia. Sounds like a must read item. Like the content. Bravo.
also great vid as always!
I just discovered this: the embers in dark souls 3 is the equivalent for humanity in earlier dark souls games, but the embers in dark souls 3 are burning, signifieng that humanity has been linked with fire, maybe forever
There is still humanity unembered in 3. It's just that our character is an unkindled and doesn't function the same way undeads do. He can't even hollow normally.
His kind gain power from the fire that is "stored" in those embers, similar to how the linking with the lords of cinder works in that game.
great video. i've been thinking about dark souls as an analogy for production cycles, from a marxist perspective. gwyn stands in as a capitalist, able to claim control simply by owning the means, and is terrified at the idea that the lower classes, humanity, would enact a revolution. while it isn't explicitly stated, it must have been humanity that build his kingdoms for him, and the process of hollowing, of being driven to insanity by losing all purpose, even amidst such beautiful infrastructure, fits very well with the alienation of workers in developed economies.
The souls were death found by nito, life found by the witch of izalith, light found by gwyn, and dark found by the furtive pygmy
What a fantastic video! Thanks for these analyses they are always super interesting. Merry Christmas and happy holidays to you and your loved ones.
Really am appreciating your new takes on the souls series. So much of the community gets caught up in the text in game that they fail to explore the causal roots that inspire them. The way you show it gives it a palpability, meaning all things made by human is a direct link and reflection of humanity.
Basically I was tired , "Hey i'm going to talk about the world repeating it's mistakes and beings lording over a 'lesser people' and forcing them into cults that are in direct conflict with their interests, but i'll keep the politics out of it."
It's like, taking the "high road" is not only mentally childish but also detracts the inherit purpose of art interpretation.
P.S When it comes to Metal Gear you like the only person who goes beyond saying that the game is complex and very inspired. What? Oh no, there's no way we could've predicted the control of disinformation and the widespread conflict incentive that is the war economy...crazy...what a coincidence...
Great video Max!
Thank you very much!!!
I love your videos. You definitely get a Christmas like from me! Could you do a video on Gynn's unnamed son and how it compares to similar characters in myth?
Hmmmm! Good call. I'll definitely investigate that. :)
@@maxderrat Thank you!
I would love to hear more about humans completing the trinity. I have been having this idea of how 4 and 7 represent complete numbers, and how 3 and 6 are incomplete. Great video!
Like it. Me and my brother (we were once deep intrested in occult stuff and gnosticism) were thinking after playing DS series about Miyazaki's vision and always repeting time, after time "This guy knows something...".
So if this is not only my (and brother's) theory... there is something in it i think.
I think Velka, Painted World, dragon crossbreeds can be a key to understand his vision (but there is still lot of missing informations). They were unwanted im Gwyn's picture of the world but resolution (of DS story) comes from this source (Painter, Painted World, painting by Dark Souls etc.) .
i subscribed because i really like video games with deep meaning like Silent Hill 2 and Spec Ops The Line. honestly your contents are constructed so well and narrated perfectly. i hope you keep the english subtitle though..
Love all your gaming and mental health content
Really love your videos and how you draw comparison between religions and video games! Merry Christmas
Merry Christmas to you too, bro. :D
I was under the impression that only Gwyn had a Light Soul and that although it wasn't stated, Nito had the Death Soul and the Witch of Izalith had the Life Soul.
Yes but the the light, life and death soul are all allied in the age of fire, while the dark soul foreshadows and acts towards the next age, the age of dark.
As a student of Gnosticism and the Esoteric. This is a Superb Overview of Gnostic thought and history.
PHEW. That's relieving to hear. Thank you!
Great vid. You should make an alchemist video on how to not be depressed for highly intelligent people. I feel like a Bloodborne character with massive insight but easily could go mad.
this helped me understand an unrelated thing, on the text towards the creative nothing of novatorre , specifically the cross explanation with the 4 souls, for novatorre the Antichrist and the inverted cross puts humanity on top where it considers it deserves to be as life rejecting death, struggle rejecting the life denial surrender as passage to the inmaterial and the lady life in novatorre to who the Antichrist screams "let's start again" before it decides to go with christ being sophia.
if i could i would give you money (not because i consider it the best i could give you but given the distance that must separate us would be the most useful thing in this economic model to help you ease the path to get something you really want) for helping me understand this most clearly even if it was unintentionally
I like to believe Gwyn's fear of the dark and humanity were more righteous than everyone keeps saying. During the campaign against the tyrannous dragons, Gwyn would clearly see the Abyss humanity used to create their arms. He would see how it rends the world it touches, and realize the danger it it threatens to the coming age of light. A good king protects the people.
I don't believe it says or shows anywhere in game that Gwyn was actually selfish. It only talk and peers here and there about how he tried to stop the dark and humanity from overtaking the Age of Light. After the tyrannous dragons are defeated comes a world where many living creatures blossom and flourish. Would a good king not fight nature to to keep the kingdom in prosperity? Would a good lord not sacrifice even his own life to save his people... Gwyn did not even simply wipe out humans, like he and the gods probably could have. He merely put them at a distance, and even gave them one of his own daughters, all so that there would be peace; and even then, you see that he tried to invite humans closer. The undead burg, Oolacile, and New Londo are prime examples, clearly once rife with human life in Gwyn's light. Why fix what isn't broken?
But humans are greedy... humans are forever unsatisfied. Why live in peace with others, when you can have it all? The pygmies connived; they coaxed the Abyss, and lead it toward the gods. The primordial serpents told tales to rile up the darkness in humanity. If Oolacile fell to the Abyss, New Londo would very well fall the same... but Gwyn acted. Gwyn said "No"... Gwyn said "I will not put the peace and prosperity of all living creatures into jeopardy, just for one species"... and humanity just kept coming; their devouring Abyss. They are the one's who crave power; not Gwyn.
An example of perhaps the only human who truly understands humanity... Patches. One who made it to the end of the world. He despises clerics. They claim to serve the gods, but he does not trust them. They speak miracles, likely only for the powers they receive, rather than in praise for the actual tales they hold; just like the player themselves. You never get to read the actual tales told in miracles; you only use them for what they can do for you.
Patches:
"Every age, it seems, is tainted by the greed of men.
Rubbish, to one such as I, devoid of all worldly wants! Hmmm, I dunno, maybe it's just the way we are.
I'll stick you in my prayers. A fine dark soul, to you."
EDIT: I've left comments like this on several videos, including Vaati's lore dumps. This view on the story will likely be buried, unheard, and forgotten by humans who don't want to admit they are, in all likelihood, the bad guy in the Dark Souls series.
I hate being reminded of how much knowledge was destroyed with the coming of the desert creatures.
Very well played sir...u have convinced the wife to make me buy her an xbox for Christmas
10:00 - You're not wrong about the quaternity stuff, but I would wonder if there's a triplicate separation of humanity as symbolized within the game. There's an abundance of esoteric symbolism for triangles overlapping triangles.
Edit: For what it's worth, I've never played Dark Souls, so I don't know if this could be something as simple as character selection options.