Thanks guys for liking my newest video. I asked at the end for you guys to do it and you did! I'm about to get over 1,000 likes in less than five hours. :)
There also many ties to Christianity that I think people miss. The main protagonist who sacrafices himself at a stake ( firelink shrine) who takes. The sin and curse of humanity . And dies and is reborn. Only to take to later to fight the curse again but this time having a union absorbing all the souls as the protagonist is one of the people left at the end of time. He then creates a new world. The painted world. Very similar to Christ union at the end of times and creation of a new world.
Technically the arch tree theory doesn't work, in Dark Souls they exists in the real world of Dark Souls the Hunter's dream isn't in the real world it's a plane of existence we as the hunter don't go there we astral project are self there the only time a person can go there is if an Great One takes a person there, it's the same with the Nightmare Frontier, The Hunters Nightmare and Nightmare of Mensis we don't go there either, they also don't follow logic there planes stacked on top of each other where you can only see down not up that's why in the Fishing Hamlet you can see the buildings in center Yarham from the start of the DLC, as it stands it's believed the Hunters Dream is at the bottom of the stack with the Hunter's Nightmare on top then the Fishing Hamlet then Nightmare Frontier then at the top Nightmare of Mensis.
Marvelous Chester from DS1 always looked like he could be from the world of Bloodborne, and he even states that he too was "snatched by a shadowy limb, and dragged off to the past". He's also (I think) the only apparently human NPC that the Dark Hand cannot drain humanity from, so perhaps that's further evidence that he's not of the same breed as the humans in DS1.
@@commandershepard7110 Most likely. The Moon Presence is something to also be noted. But it's a good chance that Gerhman unconscious that gives the Dream it's form.
JSF had the idea that the pillars were Yharnam's "buildings" and "spires," loosely conjured up by the Moon Presence. It is theorized that Laurence beckoned the Moon Presence in the old workshop, so it got a good look at the workshop, and through a deal, it created a copy for Gherman to reside in. Except the pillars and surrounding area are just kind've filled in with its peripheral vision of Yharnam.
I mean that's most likely why they're like that. In the hunter's nightmare, you see similar architecture that mimics the real world yharrnam. It would make sense that the moon presence would try to mimic the world gehrman knows, but not caring or noticing the finer details.
@J H? Every game's story is based off of ideas inspired from a variety of other media... What is that argument? It's not like they just took every idea from it and just put it in the game lmao. Translating ideas and inspirations from other media into a fully cohesive world and narrative wasn't as easy as simply copy pasting ideas. The soulsborne world's and story are regarded as some of the most carefully crafted of all time for a reason.
@J H right, but no one here is talking about gameplay..? judging from the content of the video I'm pretty sure that is not what the op is referring to lol
Me too bro, when I'ved seen ash lake for first time I've said this :(I want myazaki to work all his life, after finishing dark soul and beat gwyn, I will going to other ash tree and explore a new kingdom and this loop will continue forever)
Ever heard of the seeds planted in the subconscious of the Children of Man? Imagination has power, however you want to take that. Demon Souls lore even discusses this, sort of. God gave man Souls so they may Imagine.
I think you're touching upon what I believe these trees/pillars are. Ideas/imaginations that stem and give birth to civilizations like Lordran, only to eventually hollow out and rot with time. The rotting of these trees, civilizations and men coincide with one another. Makes sense at least. Fun to think about.
@@Ton-uy1xd This is what I love about the Soulsborne series. Pretty much everything is down to interpretation. It's such a simple idea but unbelievably effective.
I always wondered about those arch trees in Bloodborne as well. Finally, a video to address this idea! I wonder if Elden Ring will further this concept.
There are actually two appearances of arch tree like structures, first in the final boss's arena which is a vast lake with hundreds of Erdtrees doted about, second is a lake filled with seemingly stone trees that can be seen from the northwest coast of the upper ancestral woods near Nokron.
Great video! May I also add that in Dark Souls 2, the giants corpses become trees and created the forest of Fallen Giants. There is the combination of mind and matter in the Giants due to the trees allowing the Bearer of the Curse to enter the giants memories as if they were they were their own realms.
This is a really interesting insight! I just remembered that the Witch of Izalith has control over those chaos trees after trying to create a flame, that could lead us somewhere too.
You didn’t mention, The demon prince boss fight that takes place inside a giant hollow arch tree, It’s also the old firelink shrine from the first game. Look around at the stone architecture.
Honestly, your theory is awesome, but the hollows becoming trees in Dark Souls 3 is most likely just foreshadowing for the giant butterflies we see toward the end of the game in Lothric castle and the Grand Archives. They share a similar appearance and they are right next to the where the hollows were. But there is a similar theory by The Ashen Hollow that make more sense for me: that the hollows are actually becoming dragons
It was specifically the pilgrims of Londor who became the butterflies. They are called “Pilgrim Butterflies”, and the Ringed City DLC confirms this by having Butterfly enemies controlled out of the corpse of pilgrims. I do think Hollows can become dragons, but DS3 also seems to make a point that the transition is not as simple as waiting for the transformation to happen.
I like the methodology of these videos, not exactly trying to explain what the archtress are but rather the concepts they're based of off so that we can better understand what they symbolize in their respective universes of bloodborne and dark souls. You didn't even have to ask, i left a like as soon as the video was nearing it's end. Love your videos, my guy.
First off, marvelous stuff on this here channel. Second, regarding the hollow-trees first mentioned at 3:14 - I personally believe that this is some form of lifecycle, culminating in the Pilgrim Butterfly, AKA the terrifying things flying around Lothric towards the end of the game (and which are animating the Dragonslayer Armour). There is an interesting thing going on with the Pilgrims (such as Yoel), the Butterflies, and the Angels in the Ringed City that I haven't quite buttoned down.
I't's not prolific, it's gibberish. The pillars in Bloodborne are not Ash trees. They're the ship masts/pillars of the ships wher you fight the Orphan of Kos.
Theory: All the soulsborne games are literally layered on top of each other and the higher or lower you get the more or less absurd things become. It’d explain the bloodborne dlc and the dark souls 2 opening
Then i'd classify it as this with high being absurd and kow being less absurd. Bloodborne dreams Bloodborne Dark Souls 3 Dark Souls 2 Dark Souls 1 (They are all the same world but in DS3 the world merges together due to the linking of the fire) Elden Ring or Demon Souls Sekiro
@@FromsoftgoatKaj tho I’d flip dark souls 1 and 2 bec dark souls 2 doesn’t have anything like the gaping maw. Plus it’d be like the Main character jumps from lordran down a layer to dranleic
@@angel__king There are alot of problems though. The bloodborne dreams reside above the real world as seen in the DLC but the arch trees extend into the dreams but Dark souls resides under bloodborne
@@angel__king The Dark Souls games aren't layered. Simply different "Countries". Dark Souls 3 are all those countries imploding on themselves and merging.
I legit thought Bloodborne was just some spooky Halloween game when my bro first showed it to me. I never knew that spooky Halloween game would lead me to this amazing channel let alone the works of Lovecraft. Great stuff Max, your videos on this series are really well done. Keep up the great work! 💎
Personally, I believe it makes more sense to think that the undead transformed into trees are in the process of becoming the flying roots that we see in Lothric's castle, they look very similar.
i always love new dark souls content, i have play a few runs, but until this point, i dint take notice, that in 2 you enter the world throw a tree, and in 3 you fight a demon prince inside a tree, mind blown, thanks max, always bringing new context and realization to your works.
Superb analysis. The lateral thinking involved in drawing these conclusions is very rare. I'm a gameDev & these videos are invaluable in deeping my own works.
Control also shares the concept of the world tree going by the tree carving in the Foundation area of The Oldest House(which is a physical place with connections to the subconscious). In the same area you’ll also see a similar sight to the great stone archtrees in Ash Lake and The Hunter’s Dream which are the foundation holding up The Oldest House and the plethora of Thresholds within.
It would be cool if the tops of the pillars have workshops. Each one is just a copy of the one that the player is on. The hunters dream is the only place where all the pale blood hunters exist together. Like one big shared dream.
So those hollows that look like they're turning into trees don't end up as arch trees. We see what they turn into in the game. At first they turn into those black, wispy, flying things that we see as we travel up Lothric Castle, they also attack us during the Dragonslayer armour fight. Their final form is shown to us at the Dreg Heap, they are the angel-like beings that shoot light at us from afar.
But how do we know those are the final form? Now that I think about it, they could be something like seeds taking to the air to find new places to take root. They might attack because they seek souls like sprouts seeking soil/water. Hollows are turning into seeds now because the cycle has been stretched for so long. For all we know, hollows would turn into the angels, then become new trees at the end of the Age of Dark, leading to the Age of Ancients (grey) once more.
@@toyhaunter8260 I don't know. This theory seems heavily based around the fact that the hollows turn into trees, and that arch trees are also trees. As I've said, the next stage in their change is turning into the angels. So to me the basis for this theory falls apart because of that.
@@boreussimius1100 Thing is what is the purpose of the angels? Why would they turn into angels now that the world is turning to ash? Why do the hollows have to turn to trees in the first place? We don’t know the purpose or if the angels are a final form. The Age of Fire has been stretched so long and we don’t know what the Age of Dark brings. We had a hint that the fire would return so it’s possible the world has a cycle that Gwyn threw out of synch.
the trees in High Wall of Lothric are completely different from the angels in Dreg Heap. Angels come specifically from Londor Pilgrims. the creatures controlling Dragonslayer Armour could be related to Londor Pilgrims, since the latter are all over Lothric, but there's no evidence of their connection with the trees.
I noted the other day on your Poll discussion, Max, how much the soaring pillars of the Foundation in Control instantly reminded me of the Arch trees in Bloodborne & Dark Souls. All very intriguing, for sure! PS - I always hit that LIKE button, Max! Your videos are so interesting, thoughtful and you bring such unique ideas to the table :-)
As a huge consumer of Soulsborne lore since playing the games a long long time ago I’ve never really heard anything mentioned about the arch trees. Do you think they could be in some way a reference to the timeline? DS1 shows the tree as it grows from the ground and BB seems to show their tops. Suggesting the alpha and omega of the universes timeline? Just looking at the weapons and scenery of the worlds would suggest BB is several hundreds of years in advance. I love your suggestion of the hollows spawning a world, it’s gives the trivial nature of the enemies a purpose for being as opposed to just being cannon fodder. Great video again Max 👍🏻
I LOVE THESE VIDEOS!!.. Your philosophically minded like me and your talent for taking complicated concepts and simplifying them while at the same time not dumbing down the material is truly impressive. Furthermore your videos are very well edited and even more importantly your speech is clear and concise and that is always a plus in my book. Lastly I truly hope you stick to this despite the abysmal algorithm and admittedly selfishly I also hope you get around to covering demon souls and it's truly fascinating lore which is very reminiscent of bloodborne and its themes. Alright keep up the good work and know that it's very much so appreciated.
I always thought that the hollows growing branches in DS3 were transforming into "butterflies" like the ones that appear when you fight the Armour boss
This is more than likely the case, their bodies are posed in a similar fashion and posing being such a deliberate detail should lead us to believe that this was the intention, and not hollows growing into hollow trees....
Yeah, I really suggest to keep reading Berserk, there is a reference to a «World Tree» that after its appearance, the worlds of fantasy and reality, converge. I really enjoy these souls videos too, they have a lot of loyal fans, it's a matter of time when your channel start to get more views, dude.
Well that could be unrelated because the game is heavily based off norse mythology and it could just be yggdrasil but knowing FROM it's probably related
I disagree. I find it more interesting if these universes are connected in just the spiritual sense and through themes, images, similar gameplay features etc. I wouldn't mind a connected multiverse if done right but I think I prefer if Fromsoft just go for what they feel like, such as new IP:s or well planned sequels instead of making everything fit in the same box imo
@@rizon98 are perhaps worried that by connecting these worlds it restricts them and forces them to be more homogeneous and less unique from one another?
@@hellogoodbye3786 why make the question so complicated? He is afraid the mystery and magic will go away. I am just to curious to understand how everything workd
@@heuvelke1065 well I wasn’t going for complexity, those were just the best words and arrangement I thought of on that moment. In any case if he were to answer something similar, I’d say that I trust Fromsoft to maintain that magic. Either way I’m just spitballing here, I haven’t thought too much on it.
@@hellogoodbye3786 To answer your first question, I do think you hit the nail on the head perfectly with your response, that if these worlds were interlinked it would force them to be more homogeneous and to close out parts that I find very interesting about these games. Like in dark souls, the world is in a very dire place at the end I really enjoy the finality of the series actually ending, instead of going on and continuing to exist to be able to be linked in a direct way to bloodborne for example. I don't really want series to go on for an eternity (like the MCU or Star wars), because it can really strain the creativity and quality of the world (the MCU has remained in relative high quality but it's also fairly safe). Like Huevelke wrote, It does take away some of the mysterious and to me the open-ended details, like you can get a general idea of how the world of dark souls works but there's still a ton left up for interpretation. I feel like I came off a bit too inflammatory in my first reply so I'm sorry for that. I'm not 100% opposed to a multiverse, I just don't feel it would gel well, a lot of the time.
I have noticed this for years ! Finally a video. There's a very good cutscene at the beginning of Dark Souls that shows the arch tree.they look much more like the ones you see in the Hunter's dream in bloodborne it's very subtle and happens very fast
I'm loving this analysis of FromSoft games. It's way more in depth than the developers probably went, and yet it works so well, it's hard to say with certainty that they didn't research alchemy when writing the soulsborne lore
I always looked at them in a similar- but also different way; Another mind trapped in the dream. Hollow-- abandoned Dreams. Much like the abandoned Workshop underneath Cathedral Ward. All of those pillars to me, represented another struggling world. Unsure if they're doomed to the same never-ending fate of yours, or if their world has had the pleasure of being abandoned. Every time I step into the Dream and look to those pillars, they never fail to make me feel so small and alone. This is why I love Bloodborne so much. No other game has made me truly feel how grim a world can be- yet make it feel so insignificant at the same time.
Wait, so the hollows who became tree give "birth" to arch trees? thats a very interesting theory, so the age of dark is actually the beginning of the age of fire? it's a infinite circle?
I'm just going to toss out a couple things that make me think dark souls and bloodborne are connected: -The last Painted World was made from the Blood of the Dark Soul. I never saw anything stating the other painted worlds were made of blood, much less the blood of one of the Lord Souls. -The fight with Lady Maria makes sense. She is from Caithurst, the castle known for vampirism and bloodtinge weaponry, and she starts to make use of blood durring her fight.... But why does she start to make use of Fire at the end, as if she were Embered? -Why is there so many fire-related enemies in the chalice dungeons (where the earliest known civilization is) such as the watchdog, and the armored wizard that appears to be using pyromancy (when bloodborne's magic system revolves around cosmic power) -Why is there an UNDEAD darkbeast? what makes it a DARK Beast, a Dark Sign? -Consumed King Oceiros dragon experimentation made him quite fleshy looking, and bears trace similarities to the alien Great Ones. Not to mention the invisible crying baby he holds, similar to Murgo's crying. I feel like the pthumerians were the early hollows/undead (or even pigmys/Pigmy Lords) that first entered the painted world of Ash (the one made with the Blood of the Dark Soul), still clinging to their fire-based way of living. The Vilebloods branched off from them and decided to adapt to the blood sustaining the world (similar to how Father Ariandel used his own blood to quell the flames of his painted world). And the Dragon worshippers continued their experiments to "become a true dragon", which lead to the creation of the Great Ones. The Dream World also holding the subconscious memories of Lordran. Hence the arch trees presence, and that Lady Maria rekindles the fire in the Nightmare. But this is just a barebones connection and explanation, I would really like to see if theory crafters much better than me can find any more evidence to support this.
For your own relaxing pleasure, may I recommend checking out Summoning Salt, if it hasn't been on your own radar yet. Loads of research and a relaxing, entertaining and educational watch but from a wildly different community/genre. It's another class act, like yourself. You deserve to relax sometimes too man, cheers.
Bloodborne was also the first Souls game I played through, and the first comparison my mind made was to the depiction of Naraka from Asura's Wrath. My head cannon was that these were pillars of the world, support structures for the plane of the world above, and the workshop was in some sort of limbo between realms.
Thanks guys for liking my newest video. I asked at the end for you guys to do it and you did! I'm about to get over 1,000 likes in less than five hours. :)
There also many ties to Christianity that I think people miss. The main protagonist who sacrafices himself at a stake ( firelink shrine) who takes. The sin and curse of humanity . And dies and is reborn. Only to take to later to fight the curse again but this time having a union absorbing all the souls as the protagonist is one of the people left at the end of time. He then creates a new world. The painted world.
Very similar to Christ union at the end of times and creation of a new world.
Congratulations Max! 👍
Technically the arch tree theory doesn't work, in Dark Souls they exists in the real world of Dark Souls the Hunter's dream isn't in the real world it's a plane of existence we as the hunter don't go there we astral project are self there the only time a person can go there is if an Great One takes a person there, it's the same with the Nightmare Frontier, The Hunters Nightmare and Nightmare of Mensis we don't go there either, they also don't follow logic there planes stacked on top of each other where you can only see down not up that's why in the Fishing Hamlet
you can see the buildings in center Yarham from the start of the DLC, as it stands it's believed the Hunters Dream is at the bottom of the stack with the Hunter's Nightmare on top then the Fishing Hamlet then Nightmare Frontier then at the top Nightmare of Mensis.
Oooh,but hunter's dream is real..you can kill the evil doll..
PLAY HOLLOW KNIGHT. It has a different story in this style. And is difficult. You'll love it.
I wonder if Miyazaki is an alchemist in his free time...
I would not be surprised.
Wrong way around my friend, he's a game developer in his free time; it is merely an expression of his pursuit of the alchemical arts!
@@mrkrunch4340 I knew it!! he is using alchemy in programing software to drain souls into his philosopher stone!
@@leosabat4636 and thereby achieving immortality!
He sacrificed the ability to tell us things about his games in exchange his games are amazing
Marvelous Chester from DS1 always looked like he could be from the world of Bloodborne, and he even states that he too was "snatched by a shadowy limb, and dragged off to the past". He's also (I think) the only apparently human NPC that the Dark Hand cannot drain humanity from, so perhaps that's further evidence that he's not of the same breed as the humans in DS1.
Do we know anything about that eastern hunter in bloodbornes dlc? He looks like a hint to Sekiro xD.
@@jonnymario771 he is a kind of a reference for sekiro, and the knight that u have to kill on sekiro probably its a reference for elden ring
Yes but the real question is that why would Manus drag a human from Bloodborne?
@@heuvelke1065 Is there anything in bloodborne that ressembles manus pendant? That is the reason why he grabs the chosen undead.
@@heuvelke1065 maybe a amygdala sended the hunter to Dark Souls dimension
"I just like trees bro...." - Miyazaki
ugh, it totally could end up just being that too
Yoko Taro: I hear ya, bro
Me: " Miyazaki smokes weed?"
😂😂😂
Trees are cool B^)
The fact that these Arch Trees only seem to exist in the Hunter's Dream and that the dream is a product of it's host should also be noted.
But wasn't the dream "created" by Gherman?
@@Solaire_of_Astora13 it was created by the moon presence who uses gerhman as some kind of anchor to keep it together
So if the dream is the product of the hunter and gerhman created the dream wouldn’t that mean we are in gerhmans dream
@@commandershepard7110 Most likely. The Moon Presence is something to also be noted. But it's a good chance that Gerhman unconscious that gives the Dream it's form.
I knew "things betwixt" sounded like a euphemism
lol
Or a double entendre ;)
JSF had the idea that the pillars were Yharnam's "buildings" and "spires," loosely conjured up by the Moon Presence. It is theorized that Laurence beckoned the Moon Presence in the old workshop, so it got a good look at the workshop, and through a deal, it created a copy for Gherman to reside in. Except the pillars and surrounding area are just kind've filled in with its peripheral vision of Yharnam.
Love JSF's take on the pillars!
JSF is god
I mean that's most likely why they're like that. In the hunter's nightmare, you see similar architecture that mimics the real world yharrnam. It would make sense that the moon presence would try to mimic the world gehrman knows, but not caring or noticing the finer details.
I thought they were trees from past hunters dreams since the players dream has a giant tree in it that is texture very similar
@@rhanemoser5864 that is also very plausible
One of the deepest games of all time
It really is...
@J H? Every game's story is based off of ideas inspired from a variety of other media... What is that argument? It's not like they just took every idea from it and just put it in the game lmao.
Translating ideas and inspirations from other media into a fully cohesive world and narrative wasn't as easy as simply copy pasting ideas. The soulsborne world's and story are regarded as some of the most carefully crafted of all time for a reason.
Ahemm
@J H right, but no one here is talking about gameplay..? judging from the content of the video I'm pretty sure that is not what the op is referring to lol
Lmao, guy probably got dunked on by the cleric beast, or might just not like the gameplay. Either way doesn’t give the right to call it “bare bones”
Glory to the yt algorithm!
Umbasa!
It use to be dogshit and basically nonexistent. Now its moderately acceptable for what I search.
+
This time...
GRANT US EYES
This is Miyazaki’s way of creating a multiverse. Michael Moorecock would be proud. Well done.
The Yggdrasil style trees in Elden ring could be similar
I was thinking the same thing. :)
Also that's a direct reference to the ganishka world tree in berserk
There is an Yggdrasil like tree in DS2 too. In the background of shrine of Amana
elden ring is a myth
@@cloudbloom The ganishka world tree is a reference to the yggdrasil which is the world tree in norse mythology.
I always imagined that each pillar in the Hunter's Dream was another dimension of some sort. Sort of like a multiverse.
Me too bro, when I'ved seen ash lake for first time I've said this :(I want myazaki to work all his life, after finishing dark soul and beat gwyn, I will going to other ash tree and explore a new kingdom and this loop will continue forever)
Ever heard of the seeds planted in the subconscious of the Children of Man? Imagination has power, however you want to take that. Demon Souls lore even discusses this, sort of. God gave man Souls so they may Imagine.
I think you're touching upon what I believe these trees/pillars are. Ideas/imaginations that stem and give birth to civilizations like Lordran, only to eventually hollow out and rot with time. The rotting of these trees, civilizations and men coincide with one another.
Makes sense at least. Fun to think about.
@@Ton-uy1xd the ancient trees do not rot. They are both dead and Alive. Grey
@@Ton-uy1xd This is what I love about the Soulsborne series. Pretty much everything is down to interpretation. It's such a simple idea but unbelievably effective.
Oh yeah, Eliade. It's nice to see him mentioned more and more outside his country and culture. Well done on doing your research.
You are one of a handful of people who can still spark that genuine interest and intrigue into these games so many years later. Thank you!
I always wondered about those arch trees in Bloodborne as well. Finally, a video to address this idea! I wonder if Elden Ring will further this concept.
The leaked footage seemed to have shown a Yggdrasil like tree in the map. We’ll have to see how that plays into the themes of Elden ring.
They're not Ash trees. They're the ship masts/pillars of the ships wher you fight the Orphan of Kos.
They are called Shrines. There was a cut enemy called a Shrine Knight. Maybe they were connected somehow
There are actually two appearances of arch tree like structures, first in the final boss's arena which is a vast lake with hundreds of Erdtrees doted about, second is a lake filled with seemingly stone trees that can be seen from the northwest coast of the upper ancestral woods near Nokron.
I always thought they were different hunters workshops, as in everyone else's dreams
My friend just started his first playtrough..wish him luck and clear mind..
Don't tell him about Kos. Nobody has to go through that.
Did you tell him to fear the old blood?
May he resist frenzy in his search for paleblood
You should update us on any big rages he has
He nailed papa guac and now he's on the way to old blood biatch,she's gonna give him a punch!
Thanks Max, this is what I need right now
Great video! May I also add that in Dark Souls 2, the giants corpses become trees and created the forest of Fallen Giants. There is the combination of mind and matter in the Giants due to the trees allowing the Bearer of the Curse to enter the giants memories as if they were they were their own realms.
Anyone else watching this after having watched all of Monument Mythos and thinking back to the special trees
This is a really interesting insight!
I just remembered that the Witch of Izalith has control over those chaos trees after trying to create a flame, that could lead us somewhere too.
You didn’t mention,
The demon prince boss fight that takes place inside a giant hollow arch tree,
It’s also the old firelink shrine from the first game.
Look around at the stone architecture.
He does here 4:00
@@gerdybird5457 he mentions the arena is in a hollow arch tree, yes.
But not that the arena is literally firelink shrine.
Fun fact: if you go down to the Siofra River in Elden Ring, you can yet again find these pillars, or something similar to them anyways.
Honestly, your theory is awesome, but the hollows becoming trees in Dark Souls 3 is most likely just foreshadowing for the giant butterflies we see toward the end of the game in Lothric castle and the Grand Archives. They share a similar appearance and they are right next to the where the hollows were. But there is a similar theory by The Ashen Hollow that make more sense for me: that the hollows are actually becoming dragons
It was specifically the pilgrims of Londor who became the butterflies. They are called “Pilgrim Butterflies”, and the Ringed City DLC confirms this by having Butterfly enemies controlled out of the corpse of pilgrims.
I do think Hollows can become dragons, but DS3 also seems to make a point that the transition is not as simple as waiting for the transformation to happen.
@@nickelbutt didnt the pilgrims become angels not butterflies?
Your videos are masterful. Thank you for sharing, we need more of this thoughtful content than ever these days. You are keeping the fire burning.
What is matter
Nevermind
What is mind
Doesn’t matter
Backwards bro.
I like the methodology of these videos, not exactly trying to explain what the archtress are but rather the concepts they're based of off so that we can better understand what they symbolize in their respective universes of bloodborne and dark souls. You didn't even have to ask, i left a like as soon as the video was nearing it's end. Love your videos, my guy.
I feel like the Logical conclusion is that the fire was always burning. You could almost say... since the world's been turning
Or a dragon started it.
We did not start thine fire
First off, marvelous stuff on this here channel. Second, regarding the hollow-trees first mentioned at 3:14 - I personally believe that this is some form of lifecycle, culminating in the Pilgrim Butterfly, AKA the terrifying things flying around Lothric towards the end of the game (and which are animating the Dragonslayer Armour). There is an interesting thing going on with the Pilgrims (such as Yoel), the Butterflies, and the Angels in the Ringed City that I haven't quite buttoned down.
This analysis is prolific. Well done, good hunter. I daresay, you've found your worth in the waking world.
I't's not prolific, it's gibberish.
The pillars in Bloodborne are not Ash trees. They're the ship masts/pillars of the ships wher you fight the Orphan of Kos.
Theory: All the soulsborne games are literally layered on top of each other and the higher or lower you get the more or less absurd things become. It’d explain the bloodborne dlc and the dark souls 2 opening
Then i'd classify it as this with high being absurd and kow being less absurd.
Bloodborne dreams
Bloodborne
Dark Souls 3 Dark Souls 2 Dark Souls 1 (They are all the same world but in DS3 the world merges together due to the linking of the fire)
Elden Ring or Demon Souls
Sekiro
@@FromsoftgoatKaj ngl if this theory was correct it’d be pretty neat
@@FromsoftgoatKaj tho I’d flip dark souls 1 and 2 bec dark souls 2 doesn’t have anything like the gaping maw. Plus it’d be like the Main character jumps from lordran down a layer to dranleic
@@angel__king There are alot of problems though. The bloodborne dreams reside above the real world as seen in the DLC but the arch trees extend into the dreams but Dark souls resides under bloodborne
@@angel__king The Dark Souls games aren't layered. Simply different "Countries". Dark Souls 3 are all those countries imploding on themselves and merging.
We enter the Erdtree to fight the Elden Beast (a cosmic nudibranch) in a place very similar to Ash Lake, surrounded by the same trees.
I legit thought Bloodborne was just some spooky Halloween game when my bro first showed it to me.
I never knew that spooky Halloween game would lead me to this amazing channel let alone the works of Lovecraft.
Great stuff Max, your videos on this series are really well done.
Keep up the great work! 💎
So happy to see ppl are still making vids, love you max
Personally, I believe it makes more sense to think that the undead transformed into trees are in the process of becoming the flying roots that we see in Lothric's castle, they look very similar.
Wow this went a lot more in depth than I expected. Subscribed.
I was about to sleep, Max!
You sly bastard, lemme watch this before I hit the hay! Hahah.
"Rooted in..." 😂 I loved that you said "get it" to explain even though I did get it! That was very genuine!
i always love new dark souls content, i have play a few runs, but until this point, i dint take notice, that in 2 you enter the world throw a tree, and in 3 you fight a demon prince inside a tree, mind blown, thanks max, always bringing new context and realization to your works.
I am so entranced by the quality of your vids!
Superb analysis. The lateral thinking involved in drawing these conclusions is very rare. I'm a gameDev & these videos are invaluable in deeping my own works.
thank you for all of the lore and information from different places you give to my life. I appreciate humans as thoughtful as you are Max.
Control also shares the concept of the world tree going by the tree carving in the Foundation area of The Oldest House(which is a physical place with connections to the subconscious). In the same area you’ll also see a similar sight to the great stone archtrees in Ash Lake and The Hunter’s Dream which are the foundation holding up The Oldest House and the plethora of Thresholds within.
This guy gets it so fucking well.
What a knock out of a video. I have very much enjoyed your perspective on the series with your knowledge of alchemical lore. Keep em coming
Thank you, sir!
Was following half-heartedly, and then my stomach dropped when you mentioned the location of the demon prince fight
Its amazing to still see new perspectives on the Souls games! Great video Max, keep up the great work bro!
Just found your channel, subbed for sure. You talk of topics and make connections I think no one else does.
You connecting alchemy/hermeticism to FromSoftware lore is the best thing on TH-cam.
Max video shows up in feed... Time to take a break. Work can wait.
I love your videos because I always learn some thing new. Thank you.
Boost that algorithm. 🙌 great as always. Your Aion series is my favorite on TH-cam. Stellar work.
It would be cool if the tops of the pillars have workshops. Each one is just a copy of the one that the player is on. The hunters dream is the only place where all the pale blood hunters exist together. Like one big shared dream.
I like your theory Blue Imposter
They're not Ash trees. They're the ship masts/pillars of the ships wher you fight the Orphan of Kos.
This theory is also present in Elden Ring now.
Awesome video max! Never got far in dark souls but maybe ill get back into it.
You should, it’s incredibly rewarding.
They are also in elden ring
I had kind of wondered about this background detail, but I just figured I was crazy since no one else seemed to even notice it.
So those hollows that look like they're turning into trees don't end up as arch trees. We see what they turn into in the game. At first they turn into those black, wispy, flying things that we see as we travel up Lothric Castle, they also attack us during the Dragonslayer armour fight. Their final form is shown to us at the Dreg Heap, they are the angel-like beings that shoot light at us from afar.
But how do we know those are the final form? Now that I think about it, they could be something like seeds taking to the air to find new places to take root. They might attack because they seek souls like sprouts seeking soil/water.
Hollows are turning into seeds now because the cycle has been stretched for so long. For all we know, hollows would turn into the angels, then become new trees at the end of the Age of Dark, leading to the Age of Ancients (grey) once more.
@@toyhaunter8260 I don't know. This theory seems heavily based around the fact that the hollows turn into trees, and that arch trees are also trees. As I've said, the next stage in their change is turning into the angels. So to me the basis for this theory falls apart because of that.
@@boreussimius1100 Thing is what is the purpose of the angels? Why would they turn into angels now that the world is turning to ash? Why do the hollows have to turn to trees in the first place? We don’t know the purpose or if the angels are a final form.
The Age of Fire has been stretched so long and we don’t know what the Age of Dark brings. We had a hint that the fire would return so it’s possible the world has a cycle that Gwyn threw out of synch.
the trees in High Wall of Lothric are completely different from the angels in Dreg Heap. Angels come specifically from Londor Pilgrims. the creatures controlling Dragonslayer Armour could be related to Londor Pilgrims, since the latter are all over Lothric, but there's no evidence of their connection with the trees.
I wish you the best of luck with your channel. Keep it up bud.
I noted the other day on your Poll discussion, Max, how much the soaring pillars of the Foundation in Control instantly reminded me of the Arch trees in Bloodborne & Dark Souls.
All very intriguing, for sure!
PS - I always hit that LIKE button, Max! Your videos are so interesting, thoughtful and you bring such unique ideas to the table :-)
As a huge consumer of Soulsborne lore since playing the games a long long time ago I’ve never really heard anything mentioned about the arch trees. Do you think they could be in some way a reference to the timeline? DS1 shows the tree as it grows from the ground and BB seems to show their tops. Suggesting the alpha and omega of the universes timeline? Just looking at the weapons and scenery of the worlds would suggest BB is several hundreds of years in advance. I love your suggestion of the hollows spawning a world, it’s gives the trivial nature of the enemies a purpose for being as opposed to just being cannon fodder.
Great video again Max 👍🏻
Ah yes. Sex, the origin of all things.
Seriously tho that was a nice catch!
*creationists be like:* "It all started when god f**ked the shit out of the earth"
@@ICEknightnine Yeah, taking things literally cranked up to 11
Well technically friction would be the origin
I LOVE THESE VIDEOS!!.. Your philosophically minded like me and your talent for taking complicated concepts and simplifying them while at the same time not dumbing down the material is truly impressive. Furthermore your videos are very well edited and even more importantly your speech is clear and concise and that is always a plus in my book. Lastly I truly hope you stick to this despite the abysmal algorithm and admittedly selfishly I also hope you get around to covering demon souls and it's truly fascinating lore which is very reminiscent of bloodborne and its themes. Alright keep up the good work and know that it's very much so appreciated.
Thank you for this great video.
Thank you Max! Another great video as always :)
Thank you for putting together another lore video.
I always thought that the hollows growing branches in DS3 were transforming into "butterflies" like the ones that appear when you fight the Armour boss
This is more than likely the case, their bodies are posed in a similar fashion and posing being such a deliberate detail should lead us to believe that this was the intention, and not hollows growing into hollow trees....
Yeah, I really suggest to keep reading Berserk, there is a reference to a «World Tree» that after its appearance, the worlds of fantasy and reality, converge. I really enjoy these souls videos too, they have a lot of loyal fans, it's a matter of time when your channel start to get more views, dude.
Funnily enough, we know there is a world tree in Elden ring, creating yet another comparison
Well that could be unrelated because the game is heavily based off norse mythology and it could just be yggdrasil but knowing FROM it's probably related
I secretly hope elden ring attempts to introduce an interconnected multiverse of the soulsborne games. It’s ambitious, but I’d be blown away by it.
I disagree. I find it more interesting if these universes are connected in just the spiritual sense and through themes, images, similar gameplay features etc. I wouldn't mind a connected multiverse if done right but I think I prefer if Fromsoft just go for what they feel like, such as new IP:s or well planned sequels instead of making everything fit in the same box imo
@@rizon98 are perhaps worried that by connecting these worlds it restricts them and forces them to be more homogeneous and less unique from one another?
@@hellogoodbye3786 why make the question so complicated?
He is afraid the mystery and magic will go away. I am just to curious to understand how everything workd
@@heuvelke1065 well I wasn’t going for complexity, those were just the best words and arrangement I thought of on that moment. In any case if he were to answer something similar, I’d say that I trust Fromsoft to maintain that magic. Either way I’m just spitballing here, I haven’t thought too much on it.
@@hellogoodbye3786 To answer your first question, I do think you hit the nail on the head perfectly with your response, that if these worlds were interlinked it would force them to be more homogeneous and to close out parts that I find very interesting about these games.
Like in dark souls, the world is in a very dire place at the end I really enjoy the finality of the series actually ending, instead of going on and continuing to exist to be able to be linked in a direct way to bloodborne for example. I don't really want series to go on for an eternity (like the MCU or Star wars), because it can really strain the creativity and quality of the world (the MCU has remained in relative high quality but it's also fairly safe).
Like Huevelke wrote, It does take away some of the mysterious and to me the open-ended details, like you can get a general idea of how the world of dark souls works but there's still a ton left up for interpretation.
I feel like I came off a bit too inflammatory in my first reply so I'm sorry for that. I'm not 100% opposed to a multiverse, I just don't feel it would gel well, a lot of the time.
I am just now getting into this franchise and I am in love with the lore and the way it is delivered
Another seriously great video. I can't get enough Bloodborne and Dark Souls lore
Hey sweet take! That's a very cool idea on the trees creating the first flame.
You are really good at making me want to play the games you make videos about
Love how he brings up valid points and flys off the handle woth some wacky extra bit
I have noticed this for years ! Finally a video. There's a very good cutscene at the beginning of Dark Souls that shows the arch tree.they look much more like the ones you see in the Hunter's dream in bloodborne it's very subtle and happens very fast
I'm loving this analysis of FromSoft games. It's way more in depth than the developers probably went, and yet it works so well, it's hard to say with certainty that they didn't research alchemy when writing the soulsborne lore
Loving this series. Keep it up! Thank you!!
Another great video Max!!
Really interesting max hope to see more of this series of videos
keep up the great work Max!!!
I always looked at them in a similar- but also different way; Another mind trapped in the dream. Hollow-- abandoned Dreams. Much like the abandoned Workshop underneath Cathedral Ward.
All of those pillars to me, represented another struggling world. Unsure if they're doomed to the same never-ending fate of yours, or if their world has had the pleasure of being abandoned.
Every time I step into the Dream and look to those pillars, they never fail to make me feel so small and alone.
This is why I love Bloodborne so much. No other game has made me truly feel how grim a world can be- yet make it feel so insignificant at the same time.
In Demon’s Souls, the Old One is very much like a tree, and it’s only purpose (so we’re told) is to consume souls.
Great video mate. Really interesting theory!
Such an interesting video , you present so many interesting points. Thanks for covering my favourite game
I love videos like this. Keep them coming!
Great video! Your amazing bro!
Man, good stuff, cant wait for more!
Jeez, bloodborne lore discussion gets me ROCK SOLID... thanks Max
"There will be more videos like this" Best news Ive had in a while...
Hope this helps with the algorithm. Great content as always
Just found your channel and immediately love it, keep out the awesome content!!
Love these videos, keep it up man
I see the arch trees as a natural formation of trees that are an enigma that breaks reality, leads to alternative universes, and between time.
Your insights and speculations overshadow anything VaatiVidya could come up with in the blink of an eye. Truly you are a master of lore analysis.
Thank you, sir. That's seriously high praise.
Wait, so the hollows who became tree give "birth" to arch trees? thats a very interesting theory, so the age of dark is actually the beginning of the age of fire? it's a infinite circle?
Thanks for the amazing content you do, greetings from Argentina (sorry for my english)
I'm just going to toss out a couple things that make me think dark souls and bloodborne are connected:
-The last Painted World was made from the Blood of the Dark Soul. I never saw anything stating the other painted worlds were made of blood, much less the blood of one of the Lord Souls.
-The fight with Lady Maria makes sense. She is from Caithurst, the castle known for vampirism and bloodtinge weaponry, and she starts to make use of blood durring her fight.... But why does she start to make use of Fire at the end, as if she were Embered?
-Why is there so many fire-related enemies in the chalice dungeons (where the earliest known civilization is) such as the watchdog, and the armored wizard that appears to be using pyromancy (when bloodborne's magic system revolves around cosmic power)
-Why is there an UNDEAD darkbeast? what makes it a DARK Beast, a Dark Sign?
-Consumed King Oceiros dragon experimentation made him quite fleshy looking, and bears trace similarities to the alien Great Ones. Not to mention the invisible crying baby he holds, similar to Murgo's crying.
I feel like the pthumerians were the early hollows/undead (or even pigmys/Pigmy Lords) that first entered the painted world of Ash (the one made with the Blood of the Dark Soul), still clinging to their fire-based way of living.
The Vilebloods branched off from them and decided to adapt to the blood sustaining the world (similar to how Father Ariandel used his own blood to quell the flames of his painted world).
And the Dragon worshippers continued their experiments to "become a true dragon", which lead to the creation of the Great Ones.
The Dream World also holding the subconscious memories of Lordran. Hence the arch trees presence, and that Lady Maria rekindles the fire in the Nightmare.
But this is just a barebones connection and explanation, I would really like to see if theory crafters much better than me can find any more evidence to support this.
This is some good thinking. Have a like
10/10, Goddamn your videos are exactly my jam. Ultra entertaining and thoughtful.
For your own relaxing pleasure, may I recommend checking out Summoning Salt, if it hasn't been on your own radar yet. Loads of research and a relaxing, entertaining and educational watch but from a wildly different community/genre. It's another class act, like yourself. You deserve to relax sometimes too man, cheers.
Souls lore is just so boundlessly interesting...man, I can never get enough of this.
Bloodborne was also the first Souls game I played through, and the first comparison my mind made was to the depiction of Naraka from Asura's Wrath. My head cannon was that these were pillars of the world, support structures for the plane of the world above, and the workshop was in some sort of limbo between realms.