I found a crazy modified Macintosh 128K
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- Thanks PCBWay.com - Today we're exploring a heavily-modified Macintosh 128K, the original Macintosh. What are all of these crazy mods?
And... is that a TELEPHONE?
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#Macintosh #PowerPC #Floppies
Eproms are hard to erase without a close proximity UVC light source. Stickers falling off the windows while inside a machine is never a problem.
I left UV roms in the sun for 4 months at a time to test this. All of them still read out fine afterwards.
Which gives a bit of a hint as to how strong and dangerous the UVC light sources can be if handled incorrectly.
I knew someone that used a poorly made erase setup for his work where he kept repeatedy looking at the UV source and suffered accelerated macular degeneration as a result. The stickers really do nothing other than identify the rom chip contents.
they're called EEPROMS
@@ProtoHadron No, we're talking about EPROMs, which are erased with UV light through the window on the chip. EEPROMs are completely different, they are erased electronically.
@@serqetry Ooooooooooooohhhh
My dad told me a story regarding that, back when the telecomm was upgrading to these new chips, the news reporters were over, and sure enough, the person showing off the chips didn't think about the flashbulbs of those old cameras, some of the chips of their massive upgrade were corrupted
Also, as much as Steve Jobs wanted to keep it a closed box, it's amazing to see how this old 128 Mac was upgraded.
The error might mean that there's some bad RAM at a place in memory that doesn't get used by typical software that runs on a 128K Mac. If you fill the memory you might stumble into bad RAM that simply doesn't matter for booting into MacOS and starting a program or 2.
Any idea how much of the system memory is used for the display framebuffer?
I also love machines like this! What a hilarious product too, “For Max lovers only!”
Apple used that type of caps in place of X2 caps on some machines. They aren’t as safe as they aren’t X2 rated but they also don’t have the problems RIFAs have.
Ah nice, thanks!
Hey Adrian :)
0w0 there adrian the doctor pc
I knew I recognized this machine! I bid on it through CTBids and- unsurprisingly- lost. Good to know it went to someone who will certainly care for it! Amazing video as always.
Hahahaha amazing
My Mom's boss happened to be at the Flint Center when Jobs first demonstrated the Mac 128k. He bought one on the spot, although he had to wait a few weeks for it to arrive. We were all using Apple ][ computers at the time; my mom at work, and I was learning BASIC on them in High School. (The first class they ever taught in my school on programming.) When Mom's boss's Mac arrived it was the first one in the area, and he loved to show it off. Then a year later he upgraded to a 512k Mac and passed his first 128k machine down to my Mom (his admin assistant.) That was 1985, and I got to type up some high school assignments on it after hours, and print it off on Mom's daisy-wheel printer. Then in another year they upgraded the whole office to Mac Plus computers, and my Mom (who did page layout a lot) got a portrait orientation external CRT monitor which could display a full legal size page. I think it cost as much as the computer, but it was invaluable for her job. (She also wrote a lot of grant applications.) About that time Mom brought home her boss's original 128k machine and we used it for basic word processing for another couple years.
You were lucky.
@@a4e69636b I was. I essentially grew up with the desktop computer revolution.
Very cool. I still think portrait orientation is the future...
Such an awesome story, I'd imagine it must've been mind-blowing going from an Apple II to the Macintosh and then experiencing a graphical user interface at that time.
@@NijiDash It was a marvelous time. Am I glad I lived through it? Yeah. Do I want to go back to it? Hell no.
The only thing I know about holding the mouse button down is that it's supposed to eject removable media on startup. That's the first time I've seen a hardware issue bypassed by doing so. Very strange behavior from a very strange old Mac. I guess that suits it.
Could the error be related to the physical damage on the diskette?
@@WhatALoadOfTosca Graham, it would be interesting to run down that error code and see what it says. I always thought these error codes meant hardware failure. But you never know.
Maybe some sort of a security feature wired on the board that disables memory module(s) on power up.
You can see that someone had resoldered the analogue board connections at least once before, which isn't suprising.
A while back I bought a boxed 128k off Craigslist. When I tried to turn it on, I got a similar error code. Using one of Larry Pina's books, I figured out that it was a memory fault and the book helped me determine exactly which chips were defective (based on the error code). I'm not sure it would still correspond to your upgrade card, but maybe if you could find the docs for it there would be some additional information to help determine which parts are problematic. Anyway I was able to get some NOS memory chips and once I replaced the defective ones, my 128k booted just fine.
After decades of use some of these upgrades can develop oxidation on the contacts. Like others, this Monster Mac upgrade displaces the CPU and relocates it to the upgrade board (though some simpler upgrades just fit into the ROM sockets in the same matter) so that the upgrade board itself can occupy the former CPU location on the logic board, usually via sockets but sometimes soldered. If you remove the socketed chips and the upgrade board and spray the respective parts with DeOxit or something similar, it may work just fine when you put it back together. I wonder if it would be possible to expand the ROM on the upgrade card. It looks like it may take extra chips. Booting Mac OS directly from ROM would be even better than a floppy emu setup.
Also I'm not sure if it's actually clocked up, but that 68000 is rated for 10MHz (stock is 8MHz).
This guy mac's. Seriously though that's very fascinating. I wonder how far he could really push this thing?
I love that what others see as ugly scars, you treat as signs that the machine had a rich life.
I'm much like that too. I collect Nintendo consoles (among many other things) and most bear some pretty rad scars. I fix what's needed for function and use them myself, developing more scars and scuffs to admire later. My DSis are full of audio files, photos, and modded so I wonder whoever winds up with my stuff decades from now would think.
I really admire other collectors who feel the same.
@@Solaceon yea I collect consoles too I clean them but if there are any files from a previous owner I usually always leave them bc it’s cool to see what life the machine had b4
The wear and tear scars make me less worried of denting or scratching it. I'd make this machine my candidate for writing my fantasy novels.
2:28 Supposedly Apple had a _lot_ of unsold 128K Macs in stock after its launch ... underperformed expectations, so the decision to keep selling the 128K model was almost certainly just to clear out that stock. I'm not an expert, but I assume that nearly all of them ended up being modified significantly, if not usually as dramatically as this one: after all, they were only barely usable unmodified. It's ironic that Jobs set out to create a computing applicance that was unusually sealed and self-contained but instead released a machine that more or less had to be hacked in quite drastic ways.
There was an official upgrade path for 128k Macs to go up to the 512k or even a Plus. 128k Macs are so rare now because a large number of them were upgraded. Even my Mac is a Plus that used to be 128k.
I love that it has big velcro eyebrows... both on top and on the bottom of it's big CRT eyeball. Gives it a ton of personality!
My guess is that was for some kinda anti glare plastic people used to put over their monitors
could this be considered a... smart phone?
I forgot I had one of these Macintosh machines in my garage until a few days ago. It's a 1MB Macintosh with a kind of rainbow hologram sticker on the back " ONE MEG." It is filthy and I'm going to clean it up today. The last time I turned it on was probably in 1998 or 1999. I bought this thing along with a crappy dot matrix called The Gorilla in 1995 at Goodwill for $30 or $40 for the pair. I managed to get onto the internet with it using an external disc drive and a Prodigy Internet floppy.
PROMs don't get wiped from sunlight (at least not easily), it takes UV light at a specific wavelength to do it and even then, it takes like 30 minutes. Also that upgrade is insanity, the size of that board is absurd.
I think you can do it with sunlight but it takes weeks to start flipping bits and months to completely erase.
You need to hold the mouse button down because your 128k just wants a hug when turning on. 😀
Friend of mine in high school had one of these, with the exact same upgrade card. He used it all the way through high school, with a 20 MB external hard drive and a second floppy drive. We graduated in 1995.
Mild fire hazards 😂 This reminds me of the time my monitor actually caught on fire while powered-up. You should have heard all those high voltage discharges that came from the inside! It filled part of the room with some mysterious electronics blue smoke and smelled of unsafe combustion byproducts.
What brand monitor was it?
this happened with one of my emachines, then the tower itself went up in smoke a few months after
@@a4e69636b It was a MAG that I paid quite a lot of money for at the time.
@@orektez Who would have suspected a reputable brand like emachines making a such poor equipment.
@@a4e69636b lol ikr my parents kept getting the things for years. ended up getting some stickers with e-b*tch on them and putting those over the logos.
even in a UV eraser it takes a few min to erase a prom, I have sat them out in direct sunlight during the summer for days and could still read the contents 100% (which is why I bought the eraser, which uses a germicidal UV bulb)
15:17 - yes that's pretty damn impressive for 1980s tech.
Teenage me would be overwhelmed.
That's 4 times my Amiga 500's memory!!
2 MB of ram in a Mac128k? Monster Mac indeed. Absolutely beastly.
It would be so cool to meet the original owner. Thanks for posting this and keeping that random homebrewer’s memory snd legacy alive
Looks like it was an office computer. I would have liked to know more also as this is such an interesting machine.
As you probably know, holding down the mouse button ejects the floppy disks. But that makes me wonder if it is a boot disk issue. Do you get the error with the SCSI addon removed? Is it possible that it is attempting to boot off of an external drive?
[Edit: Never mind. I just tested on my MacPlus and holding down the mouse button *also* skips the RAM check. I never knew!]
I remember a plethora of upgrade cards that added faster processors, memory and other options to the older Macs. Probably most of the 128s and 512s were upgraded to at least 1MB. With 1MB you could run most software into the 90s!
1MB was a stupid amount of memory back in 1985! You'd struggle to use it all up on a B&W mac.
Usually, people upgraded Mac 128k and Mac 512k to a Mac Plus, using Apple's official upgrade path. This had many benefits beyond extra RAM.
2:19 Apple had a horrendous history of releasing models with significant more memory (or tiny processor speed bumps) just a few months apart, leaving many users angry; also they were notoriously famous for not making macs upgradeable (and nowadays it's even worse); this lead to a final collapse of the company by the late 90s with a myriad of products, overlapping functions and misleading names which was the first thing Jobs axed when he got back, leaving just 3 lines of product: desktop, portable and pro.
That kinda reminds me of the iPad 2, which came out around a year after the iPad 1. Because the iPad 1 only had 256 MB of RAM, it only saw two major operating system upgrades. With double the amount of RAM in the iPad 2, that one got five major OS releases starting from iOS 4 all the way to iOS 9! I wouldn't imagine many early adopters being very happy about that...
@@NijiDash indeed, what I did with an obsolete iPad1 was dissasemble it using iFixit step-by-step instructions, took out the working and high quality LCD display and used it as a mini monitor with the help of a chinese video controller card which has VGA, HDMI and composite video inputs; that way we can at least recycle the good working parts of an old device.
@@alerey4363 can you share the make and model of that Chinese “Video Controller Card”? Your mod sounds interesting for recycling iPad1.
@@alerey4363 You should do video showing how you repurposed it.
@@georgesenda1952 I'll have to dissasemble the arcade cabinet in which I mounted it and record a step by step instruction but it will take time and I don't have a quality camera, just my 6 year old Samsung phone and some open source video editor, maybe I could start a channel about recycling quality parts from big tech obsolescenced items...
some guy out in the wile digital yonder is sitting at his computer watching this smiling to himself and reminiscing saying "yep... that was me. what a hell of a time."
This phone is literally called the MacPhone TMS1000 (Telephone Management System) It's also one of the few apps that will run on a stock 128k. I searched for nearly 15 years to find the software for this and a relative of one of the engineers that coded the app sent me the software for this. I have the box/manual/device in my collection for many many years. The software worked over the audio jack to dial the phone numbers, and you clicked on rolodex type entries that you create for calls. It will also track your call times and log length and any notes you took. I see he found the copy of the software that we got uploaded to Macintosh Garden too! Excellent! Just need to install a regular telephone handset and you can use that phone again with a voip ATA device! The system even works on the Amiga 500 with the Amax II software and using the Amiga audio out.
I love that machine, so much character! The velcro even makes it looks like it has a mustache and eyebrows. The Mac looks like Groucho Marx to me! Great video and please keep it up.
@Paolo Verri lol! that would be a funny name!
@Paolo Verri Now it just needs a modded firmware that replaces the Happy Mac with a Groucho Mac, i.e. one wearing Groucho Glasses
Did you notice the chips on the Monster Mac expansion card labelled Groucho, Harpo, Chico, Zeppo?
@@dwarftoad Holy smokes! you have a keen eye! I did not see that! I think this is definitely a sign that this Mac should be named groucho.
Just giving all the sickened chips a push will likely fix it. That was step #1 back in the day for PCs that would power up but did weird things. Push on every socketed chip and listen for the *crick* as they seated farther into the socket. That would cut through mild corrosion. If things looked extra dirty then pulling and putting back every chip would scrape the pins and contacts better.
I just tested the holding down the mouse button theory. That is 100% correct. I have a 4megabyte upgraded mac plus and if I hold the mouse button down it seems it skips the memory check.
Ditto. I'm going to boot up that way from now on just to make it load faster in the future.
Let Apple sell that in 1984 and their Macintosh 128K in this state would've become the alpha male of computing.
I've also subscribed! :D
I loved playing “Shufflepuck Cafe” on this old machine. Brings back great memories of hanging out at my grandma’s house when I was a little one.
It would be great to see this little Apple fully retrobrited and restored! It looks like it was very well used and appreciated.
I'm noting what looks like velcro on the front cover... maybe a screen overlay with tooltips? Reminds me of the function key overlays we used to have for WordPerfect, Lotus, et cetera...
Antiglare screen?
The mouse thing might be a dead man's switch built into the bios. Some of the earlier Macs had the option to incorporate a switch that is required to be pressed during start up. Check your bios under startup or security and you may find the answer there. I know that some versions have that custom option but not all.
Battery corrosion is no joke, I "rescued" a performa 520 from my works recycle facility and when I opened it up I found the battery had leaked all over the logic board, sadly it was not repairable and parts are not possible to find so I had to toss it.
I remembered I completely forgot to comment about the EPROM thing last night. As other have mentioned you pretty much need a UV-C light source to erase the EPROM, even leaving them in direct sunlight for short periods shouldn't be a problem. I guess if you happened to hold them at the perfect angle perpendicular to the angle of the sun, there's more of a chance it would be a problem, but you'd likely need to hold it there for some time before a single bit were flipped. But in regular indoor lighting there's almost zero chance you would corrupt the data if you left the cover off.
That being said, I still cover my EPROMs with foil tape after burning them. Mostly because I think it looks cool, but also partly because an overabundance of caution does no harm. To be honest, even labelling it with a Brother/Dymo label would be enough to protect it from all but a strong UV-C source. And then I'd probably be more concerned about the damage to the label.
You should try to pull out and insert again the RAM chips on the Monstermak board, maybe they just have oxidized contacts.
This Mac is the definition of “Good Enough”
Fascinating stuff!
The phone is probably an off-the-shelf unit that got bolted on. if you can find who made the phone it should be much easier to find a handset.
I have that monster mac upgrade, but i have not messed around with the computer since the HD died years ago. Cool video, brought back memories.
only weird and crazy people could get excited about this sorta stuff ... liked and subbed :) cheers
I suspect this machine still has issues. If you’re right that holding down the mouse button skips a ram test, then that’s saying something. At least it looks like everything is socketed?
But yeah, plugged into a RaSCSI or BlueSCSI would be awesome.
The most epic Mac 128 🤘
If you look at the apple logo…
It is an apple with a telephone handset profile cut out of it.
It looks like a prop from a low-budget 80s sci-fi movie where the main character is this crazy computer nerd who accidentally causes the main conflict and has to go out and stop it from destroying the world.
If you put feet on that thing and paint it it’d look like a Star Wars droid.
You should've played "Downtown" with the touch tones ala "Short Circuit".
you should have made smooth talker say " greetings professor falken, shall we play a game? "
You should contact Evan doorbell. He built a Mac to do phone phreaking and used it to auto dial back in the 80’s.
I love it. A battle scarred machine that nobody ever thought off.
These odd-ball machines are fantastic! Great to see such a unique machine saved!
Need to set it up like the auto dialer Homer Simpson used to torment Ned Flanders
Don’t delay. Eternal happiness is only a dollar away.
It does not bleed the charge (or at least not very fast). About 25 years ago I accidentally discharged one while sliding a screwdriver undeer the suction cup. My arm was numb for at least 5 minutes, but I learned to not put my pointer finger on the metal part of the screwdriver.
So nice seeing your vids early! Currently flashing an iPhone 2G and trying to activate it, wish me luck :)
The power of Jobs compelles you! XD
@@blunderingfool it didn't work, this aluminum bastard just refuses to activate... Redsnow is stuck on "waiting for reboot". Sad.
Let me know if you succeed. I have one that was gifted to me from working on the iPhone 1.0 team, but never activated it!
@@scottgoodson4838 sadly didn't succeed. Every tool either crashes or just doesn't work. Now the phone is turning on but completely unactivated. Sad thing. Wait, btw, you were working on iPhoneOS? This is so cool!
5:37
I love when people have a sense of humor. Great video.
I've been watching your stuff for a few months now and I gotta say, I'm loving the new cutaway gags you've started doing like the one at 0:16, got a good chuckle out of me
It's called "Lamp Cord". And yes, extension cords would be constructed from it. Both moulded and clip-on connectors. Still use it on Motion Picture and Theatrical sets for "low current"* practical lighting and set pieces. *Relative to the other crap we power. Also in lamp repair. Though I can't say for certain the original installer of the fan didn't just cut up an extension cord for lamp cord, they at least grabbed hot from the fuse.
As far as the memory goes, I would check the memory DIP at the address mentioned as failed. Reseat it, try again. Swap it's location with another, does the problem follow? etc
That mac looks like its about to go into war, even has a smirk looking face and eye paint.
A 128K with a 128K badge is so interesting...
That pretty much sums up Apple fans in my experience.
(not always... but pretty much)
Amazing - you are the master of Mac archeology! Hope you find the phone.
my original mac, still sitting in the basement, has one of these upgrade boards in it. it also has the 128k mac plus roms, and a 800k floppy drive. the scsi connector comes out the battery box, which might be why the battery cover on your mac was duct taped to the case.
Have to say I find the modded/upgraded Macintoshes really interesting, they just weren't popular enough in the enthusiast market where I live for anything like this to exist.
15:58 - Yeah, but do you have Talking Moose?
The phone handset is _probably_ compatible with generic Trimline phones. Those put the incoming phone line directly on the handset pins.
@actionretro : FYI : When you hold down the mouse button on classic Macintosh devices , ejects media from floppy drive on boot.
That looks like someone strapped a PC Engine console to the side of a Mac.
Ah the classic Macs. I used to know how to bring up the interrupt box and memorized a short string out of a thick apple book given to me, that would force Finder out of memory and relaunch it. Sadly I've not got any of the machines or books anymore thanks to parents donating to thrift stores :( Still, very neat seeing the old tech getting love and teaching us new things all these years later :)
Also your cpu run at 10mhz insted of 8! for the memory error, try to reseat the chip on the upgrade first.
A-ha! That explains why there was a whole 'nother Motorola 68000 on the add-on board.
"Its a 128 with a 128 badge. I just find that so interesting"
lol wow great content.
That's a real cool machine.
Can't wait to see it getting retro brighted.
Damn that upgrade would have been sick back then
Yup, but back then they would have called it "bad".
You should use the velcro on the front to attach a Fresnel lens, à la _Brazil._
So gorgeous!!! Thanks for sharing such a rare find
Re. The phone handset- arent they somewhat ubiquitous…so you could probably cannibalise a handset from another, most of them have that phone handset plug on by the mid 80’s
And I thought my iici was jammed full of hardware 🤣
When it comes to the RAM error, honestly just use compressed air on the add-on board and the original 128k soldered to the board. Happened to me and that fixed it.
Saying about apple and phones.... Steve Wozniak Started off building blueboxes for getting free calls and other fun stuff you could do with phone lines. So Technically Apple started with 'phones'.
"Telephone piece"? Looks like it's mostly right there already!
On those old macs I believe holding down the mouse forced the mac to boot from floppy, instead of from the boot rom. Man I have used one of those since high school.
someone made a knife sharpener that attached to the Macintosh. Yeah, it was called "Mac the knife"
😂
I love the commodore maze shirt
The speech sounded like a slow down version of hal 9000 from 2001 space odyssey 16:00
I have a 512K somewhere on the farm, I wonder where it was.
That’s a super cool find!
Nice find, fun stuff. Just wanted to point out that it's unlikely that floppy belonged to that Mac since it's an HD floppy and the 128k's drive wasn't capable of working with those. I've got a 512k and what I like to do with it is boot a basic System floppy which loads up the HD20 driver--then the boot process is handed off to the FloppyEmu (love mine!) running in HD 20 emulation mode. With that setup, you can actually have a fairly functional machine (the downside being you need a working floppy drive and floppy disk at boot time). You should really see if your floppy drive works (and clean it and lube it). Anyway, looks like a fun new toy and I enjoyed your vid, thanks!
Action Retro is my Saturday morning cartoons
12:11 look at battery tray there ton of collision on it
Might be worth getting something like a tl866ii so you can dump and write E/EPROMs, especially when dealing with vintage/rare tech like this.
Got one myself which comes in handy every now and then such as testing custom Kickstart ROMs on my Amiga and replacing the fried ROM on a MD/Gen game. Also got a cheap UV eraser on Aliexpress.
Pretty much it would allow you to use your MAC as an answering machine in 1984 if it could play a verbal message down the phone line when you didn’t pick up the phone in time! In theory it could of also been a dial up modem for the MAC but I guess they didn’t go with that since it would be more practical to have a second phone like connected to a dial up modem expansion card in the MAC so it could stay always connected to the network, including when you are talking on the phone with others! :)
all those memory chips in those sockets I bet have some bad connections, the proper fix would be to pull each and use electrical cleaner in each socket and clean all the chip legs and re-insert. You could also just press on every single chip so you hear/feel a tick as it seats deeper which is usually enough to get running again. Might fix that boot issue.
Whoa, 2 megs! I used to have an extra 128K on top of 640K PC XT, and I think that required some trickery already. Can you make an ultra-fast virtual hard drive of that huge extra?
reminds me of the ibm eduquest 55 i got and did some crazy modifications that looked very similar. Still have it laying around somewhere. went and bolted extra drive bays on the side and split wires up inside to get the needed connections.
It's so great to see somebody doing this with computers! I've got a soft spot for wacky game console mods and it's a bit lonely in that space. Haha. I love your videos. Keep it up!
I would bet good money that any old corded handset from a landline phone would work with that interface box, assuming it’s a standard RJ connector. There would be no reason for a small company to build something proprietary for that when they could get one off the shelf
Someone really loved this thing.
Got it "Apple" and "goes further back" - Hi, I'm a PC user. But still love your videos.
Hey Sean, what's the BASIC code say on the front of that t-shirt? (I should know that...)
And that’s a really low serial number on the MonsterMac board, too….
The velcro? on the front maybe held some sort of anti glare screen?
almost to 40k, sean, you got this!!!!!
You do not have to worry about the sticker falling off unless it is in direct sunlight for a long time. Household Lightbulbs do not give off UV light unless they are for growing plants. Same with TV you can watch someone weld on without worrying about damaging your eyes with the UV. It takes a lot of UV light to erase one and as to be in a contained box of very strong UV lightbulb being used for a while. Even in direct sunlight, it would not do so. I would not take the chance that it does not do so in sunlight. Someone on here already did a video where they tested this out. And found it not to be true about the sticker having to be on them. I think it was Adrian's Digital Basement.