I thoroughly enjoyed your demonstration and explanation of tuning technique. It makes much more sense than most TH-cam videos on the subject. I’m about to start tuning my own piano, which needs a touch-up at this time. Your explanation of the PianoMeter app was most helpful.
So glad I found another left-handed tuner like myself. It made it easier for me to follow. The pace was just right, too. It wasn't too fast. Nicely done.
This is the single best and most accurate piano tuning video after Mark Cerisano's. It's better than 99% of videos in every way, the ear, the explanation, the experience, the "semplicity". Truly a golden nugget to behold.
I use a Keyes Impact hammer and the impact is very gentle . I always tune down a fraction to save a mistake and then tune above the note ,watching the meter .Then tuning down again I stop just short of the note and do a gentle pull (outwards) to get the note exactly right . The pull was advised by a Grand Piano tuner and it seems to combine very well with the impact method . I also have a number of very efficient wooden planes and I use various size hammers to set them accurately with little knocks and taps . The impact hammer use is more like a Patting action .
so well explained compared to all the others on tuning. But i would just like clarification on the pushing forward and pulling back i.e. know which way to adjust after testing.
Did I get this correctly - you basically use the push pull method for two things: 1. To determine whether the thread is sharp or flat compared to the other one. 2. To balance/stabilize the tension between speaking and non-speaking length correct?
Jenz, yes that is correct on point 1, but for point 2. I'm not trying to balance the tension between Sl and NSL. The NSL should be higher to take in to account the effect of the hammer blow 'stealing tension' from the nsl after static friction (stiction) is overcome.
I am also an amateur pianist tuning my own piano struggling with stability. Thank you for your demonstration. If I buy the piano meter app , can I get away with just the plus version ? So you don’t need the temper ant strip and tune all strings using this app ? If that’s the case it will be wonderful.
Matt. yes the plus version will tune the whole piano without the need to use a strip However with the plus version you cannot save tunings so every time you go to tune the same or a different piano you need to play every note from A0 to C8 for around three seconds so that PianoMeter can record the inharmonicity of that specific piano. Its no big deal and in fact although I have the Pro version I occasionally make a new file and carry out the A0 to C8 proceedure again. This is a great program. Listen to the tuning on my last recording: th-cam.com/video/zV0JXbvITRk/w-d-xo.html
Hello sir, Thank you for such great demonstrations. I understand well that when you turn the pin, the string will go up or down. But how can it be with a metal pin and with a hammer that just a slight push forward or backward is enough to change the tension of a string?
the push I mention is a test to see if the string tension will remain stable. If the tension changes using push/pull it is because the friction at the capo has been overcome and tension is 'stolen' from either the string speaking length or the non speaking length. The gentle push/pull is not moving the whole string tension.
My device is a Peterson 490-ST strobe tuner. Do you have some tips on tuning the high treble section? I always struggle with this when using my strobe tuner because the tones are so short that it's hard to read the display on the screen. Thank you.
Peterson states it has great precision 1/1000 of a semitone. This is marketing at its worst. No piano tuner has a need for such precision. Also it offers preset and custom stretches but is not offering to automatically measure the inharmonicity of your piano/s. I suggest you try PianoMeter.
What I do is: play 3 or 4 of the octave notes below the one you are tuning. eg: play C below middle C, then middle C, then next C above that an so on. this fixes C really well in your mind. you also have to quickly repeat play the note you are tuning. I use a papps mute and you can also pluck the strings with the end of this as another check.
If a piano tuning has changed significantly say by a semitone then it typically will take a course tuning then a fine tuning to return the piano to A=440Hz. The time taken to do this depends on the skill of the tuner and the willingness of the piano to respond to pin movement and to hold the string tension. As a guide I can do a coarse tune in 60 minutes and a fine tune in a further 45minutes. If the piano is already in tune but only a few unisons are out I can retune these in ten minutes or less.
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Looks good on the surface, but I have a few questions so I can better understand: Might a problem arise by pushing and pulling up and down (levering fore and aft or left and right) on the tuning pin over and over cause the hole in which the tuning pin sits to become oblong, making the tuning pin looser in the hole in the pin block over time? Is it not possible to break off the tuning pin by using the tuning hammer to lever the tuning pin over like that? Might what you are showing be a technique to show after teaching proper rendering of the tuning pin? What are other ways to deal with NSL, non-speaking length of the string that won't deform the tuning pin hole? Nice playing by the way.
The walls of the hole have microscopic fibres. It is these that get compressed when testing the stability. The pressure I use is probably 10 Newton metres, i.e. the weight of an apple (one Newton) times the length of my tuning lever. The hole does not get made oval. I have been using this technique for eight years and have no pin hole issues. The wire tension of a piano string is 750 to 900 Newtons (75-90 kg). My forward and backward pressure is a test however there are some tuners who use forward and backward (on an upright) to actually tune. This is called flagpolling and over time does damage the pin holes. This is bad practice.
With respect, evening the tension as you said is incorrect. It is undesirable to equalise the sl and nsl of the vastly different lengths of wire. The friction of the capo bar or agraffe must be taken into account to achieve stability.
@@ianjackson4018 I'm not sure about that? I've been tuning pianos for customers and pianos in my shop for nearly 40 years. I learned this stuff from some very old books in my local library. I'm going to trust the knowledge that has served well since about 1981, you don't want friction at the bridge or the agraffes. that's how strings get broken!
@@gaugeonesteam Friction is very necessary so that tension is not 'stolen' by hard sl blows. If tension is set to be equal then such stolen tension will never be passed back to the nsl. I don't doubt your tuning ability but my guess is that you perceive that you are equalising tension but are actually not. Tuners who apply lubricant to capo bar or agraffs to reduce friction soon find out that it was a mistake.
@@ianjackson4018 You sometimes have to oil the capo on older pianos with older strings. it's the only way to stop the strings breaking but I wouldn't do it unless absolutely necessary. I agree that you don't want all the tension evened up with the silent bits of the strings. However, if striking a note hard puts it out of tune immediately, I would say the piano has tuning stability problems.
@@gaugeonesteam By having the NSL tension higher than the sl tension the hard blow will not result in putting the string out of tune . All that because the higher nsl tension is maintained because of capo/aggrafe friction. My understanding is that more strings are broken due to strings being stuck to the underfelt. The use of CLP on the felt helps avoid breakage.
Any piano tuner that says they are tuning 6 or more pianos a day is probably fibbing. The average for a professional is 2 or 3 maybe 4 a day, if they are doing really good ones.
I tune 4 a day when I have to drive from one customer to the other. Takes me about 1.5 hours per piano. When I'm in a school with many instruments where there is no driving between the Instruments, I do 5 a day.
Normally yes, but if you just are re-tuning a choir then leave the meter at whatever it is reading and bring any widely out string to same reading, e.g. -3 cents. If you don't do this then you may have to retune all 88 notes so that A4=440Hz
My piano tuning technique is very easy... I know this very attractive woman that is a RPT. She is very good but pricey... she tunes pianos in a bikini and she doesn't mind me being in the room with her, but we can talk, she has to focus on tuning. Works for me.
I thoroughly enjoyed your demonstration and explanation of tuning technique. It makes much more sense than most TH-cam videos on the subject. I’m about to start tuning my own piano, which needs a touch-up at this time. Your explanation of the PianoMeter app was most helpful.
I've just started tuning and I use PianoMeter as well. It's been a godsend. Watching videos like this is really helpful to help me learn more tips.
First time after listening to a dozen or so videos that I could clearly hear the beats great work!
So glad I found another left-handed tuner like myself. It made it easier for me to follow. The pace was just right, too. It wasn't too fast. Nicely done.
Thank you so much for this video. Yours is the most simplified and comprehensive display of pin and string setting I have found online to date.
You're very welcome!
This is the single best and most accurate piano tuning video after Mark Cerisano's. It's better than 99% of videos in every way, the ear, the explanation, the experience, the "semplicity". Truly a golden nugget to behold.
I use a Keyes Impact hammer and the impact is very gentle . I always tune down a fraction to save a mistake and then tune above the note ,watching the meter .Then tuning down again I stop just short of the note and do a gentle pull (outwards) to get the note exactly right . The pull was advised by a Grand Piano tuner and it seems to combine very well with the impact method . I also have a number of very efficient wooden planes and I use various size hammers to set them accurately with little knocks and taps . The impact hammer use is more like a Patting action .
Very helpful to me. Thank you sir.
so well explained compared to all the others on tuning. But i would just like clarification on the pushing forward and pulling back i.e. know which way to adjust after testing.
The most helpful video on tuning on the internet! Perfect. Thank you.
Did I get this correctly - you basically use the push pull method for two things: 1. To determine whether the thread is sharp or flat compared to the other one. 2. To balance/stabilize the tension between speaking and non-speaking length
correct?
Jenz, yes that is correct on point 1, but for point 2. I'm not trying to balance the tension between Sl and NSL. The NSL should be higher to take in to account the effect of the hammer blow 'stealing tension' from the nsl after static friction (stiction) is overcome.
Clear concise explanation. Thank you! Beautiful playing as well! What brand tuning hammer and what degree angle on the head do you use?
The hammer is a carbon fibre one from Schaff
www.schaffpiano.com/new-items/
The 35mm long head is by Schaff and is 5 degrees. The tip is Watanabe No2.
@@ianjackson4018 Thank you!
I am also an amateur pianist tuning my own piano struggling with stability. Thank you for your demonstration. If I buy the piano meter app , can I get away with just the plus version ? So you don’t need the temper ant strip and tune all strings using this app ? If that’s the case it will be wonderful.
Matt. yes the plus version will tune the whole piano without the need to use a strip However with the plus version you cannot save tunings so every time you go to tune the same or a different piano you need to play every note from A0 to C8 for around three seconds so that PianoMeter can record the inharmonicity of that specific piano. Its no big deal and in fact although I have the Pro version I occasionally make a new file and carry out the A0 to C8 proceedure again. This is a great program. Listen to the tuning on my last recording: th-cam.com/video/zV0JXbvITRk/w-d-xo.html
Beautiful sound. What kind of piano is that ?
Hello sir,
Thank you for such great demonstrations.
I understand well that when you turn the pin, the string will go up or down. But how can it be with a metal pin and with a hammer that just a slight push forward or backward is enough to change the tension of a string?
the push I mention is a test to see if the string tension will remain stable. If the tension changes using push/pull it is because the friction at the capo has been overcome and tension is 'stolen' from either the string speaking length or the non speaking length. The gentle push/pull is not moving the whole string tension.
Omg, all these years i have been wasting my time disassembling piano cabinets! And somehow the practice felt/mute rail will magically disappear!
My device is a Peterson 490-ST strobe tuner. Do you have some tips on tuning the high treble section? I always struggle with this when using my strobe tuner because the tones are so short that it's hard to read the display on the screen. Thank you.
Peterson states it has great precision 1/1000 of a semitone. This is marketing at its worst. No piano tuner has a need for such precision. Also it offers preset and custom stretches but is not offering to automatically measure the inharmonicity of your piano/s. I suggest you try PianoMeter.
What I do is: play 3 or 4 of the octave notes below the one you are tuning. eg: play C below middle C, then middle C, then next C above that an so on. this fixes C really well in your mind. you also have to quickly repeat play the note you are tuning. I use a papps mute and you can also pluck the strings with the end of this as another check.
May I ask what app is that?
Does the piano tuning app help with the temperament or you would still need to know how to temper by ear?
There is no requirement to tune the temperement (middle octave) by ear but you do tune the unisons by ear as it is more accurate than using an etd.
Hello Ian, how much time does it take to tune the whole piano?
If a piano tuning has changed significantly say by a semitone then it typically will take a course tuning then a fine tuning to return the piano to A=440Hz. The time taken to do this depends on the skill of the tuner and the willingness of the piano to respond to pin movement and to hold the string tension. As a guide I can do a coarse tune in 60 minutes and a fine tune in a further 45minutes. If the piano is already in tune but only a few unisons are out I can retune these in ten minutes or less.
👍
Hi sir can I give you a good tip please take the hood panel of
You make your job very much easier for your self your will really work nicely
And you work will also feel nicely
Sorry for telling you what to do
But I tried to help you there only the hood panel you will see better every thing but good luck
I tune standing up so I don't need to remove the front unless I am regulating it.
But by pushing inward to the piano, even just gently will lose the pin on the piano frame?
Did you mean it will 'loosen' the pin in the pinblock? No, for the low pressure I apply it has no loosening effect on the pin-block.
Looks good on the surface, but I have a few questions so I can better understand: Might a problem arise by pushing and pulling up and down (levering fore and aft or left and right) on the tuning pin over and over cause the hole in which the tuning pin sits to become oblong, making the tuning pin looser in the hole in the pin block over time? Is it not possible to break off the tuning pin by using the tuning hammer to lever the tuning pin over like that? Might what you are showing be a technique to show after teaching proper rendering of the tuning pin? What are other ways to deal with NSL, non-speaking length of the string that won't deform the tuning pin hole? Nice playing by the way.
The walls of the hole have microscopic fibres. It is these that get compressed when testing the stability. The pressure I use is probably 10 Newton metres, i.e. the weight of an apple (one Newton) times the length of my tuning lever. The hole does not get made oval. I have been using this technique for eight years and have no pin hole issues. The wire tension of a piano string is 750 to 900 Newtons (75-90 kg). My forward and backward pressure is a test however there are some tuners who use forward and backward (on an upright) to actually tune. This is called flagpolling and over time does damage the pin holes. This is bad practice.
thanks, Ian
Would this technique work on grand pianos?
yes it will
what is the name of the tuner application?
PianoMeter
pianometer.com/?msclkid=5149000bd0fe11ec950a87e504172b6d
Hitting the note hard is not to see if it slips, it's to even the tension on the non-speaking parts of the string.
With respect, evening the tension as you said is incorrect. It is undesirable to equalise the sl and nsl of the vastly different lengths of wire. The friction of the capo bar or agraffe must be taken into account to achieve stability.
@@ianjackson4018 I'm not sure about that? I've been tuning pianos for customers and pianos in my shop for nearly 40 years. I learned this stuff from some very old books in my local library. I'm going to trust the knowledge that has served well since about 1981, you don't want friction at the bridge or the agraffes. that's how strings get broken!
@@gaugeonesteam Friction is very necessary so that tension is not 'stolen' by hard sl blows. If tension is set to be equal then such stolen tension will never be passed back to the nsl. I don't doubt your tuning ability but my guess is that you perceive that you are equalising tension but are actually not. Tuners who apply lubricant to capo bar or agraffs to reduce friction soon find out that it was a mistake.
@@ianjackson4018 You sometimes have to oil the capo on older pianos with older strings. it's the only way to stop the strings breaking but I wouldn't do it unless absolutely necessary. I agree that you don't want all the tension evened up with the silent bits of the strings. However, if striking a note hard puts it out of tune immediately, I would say the piano has tuning stability problems.
@@gaugeonesteam By having the NSL tension higher than the sl tension the hard blow will not result in putting the string out of tune . All that because the higher nsl tension is maintained because of capo/aggrafe friction. My understanding is that more strings are broken due to strings being stuck to the underfelt. The use of CLP on the felt helps avoid breakage.
Any piano tuner that says they are tuning 6 or more pianos a day is probably fibbing. The average for a professional is 2 or 3 maybe 4 a day, if they are doing really good ones.
I tune 4 a day when I have to drive from one customer to the other. Takes me about 1.5 hours per piano. When I'm in a school with many instruments where there is no driving between the Instruments, I do 5 a day.
On the contrary. I recently tuned 11 (eleven) pianos at Limerick University's music department. A very long day.
What piece 01:24 - 2:28 ?
It's Forgotten Dreams' by Leroy Anderson
@@ianjackson4018 Thank you! Also, thank you for the tuning tips they were helpful!
In tune , it’s at 0? Thanks
Normally yes, but if you just are re-tuning a choir then leave the meter at whatever it is reading and bring any widely out string to same reading, e.g. -3 cents. If you don't do this then you may have to retune all 88 notes so that A4=440Hz
@@ianjackson4018 thank you
What´s The ñame of the App?
Piano meter
My piano tuning technique is very easy... I know this very attractive woman that is a RPT. She is very good but pricey... she tunes pianos in a bikini and she doesn't mind me being in the room with her, but we can talk, she has to focus on tuning. Works for me.
Это приложение для настройки не стоит своих денег
Так и не понял сколько оно стоит?