Hi Dan. Thanks for increasing the reach on this subject as it's important. The safety of cyclists when they are overtaken should never be compromised, and one of the criticisms that was aimed at me was I "tooted" at the cyclists when in fact I "tooted" for them. Misunderstanding of the rules in the highway code I widespread so your expertise in clarifying these rules is invaluable. While we are on the subject of cycling, I would appreciate your input one of my videos scheduled for next Thursday if you could check it out. Keep up the great content!
Most welcome - and likewise, your videos are a credit to TH-cam and society in general. Even before watching the video in question, I doubted you would have been in the wrong, and was disappointed at the criticism. It was a "textbook" toot and - as you say - _for them_ not _at them_ ... I'm surprised how many people don't realise how helpful this is for maintaining safe roads! Happy to link up with your next video(s) [ contact@blackbeltbarrister.com ] and get you pushed over that exciting 100K threshold, which is JUST around the corner! Congrats in advance!
PS I was further disappointed to read in the comments that the police didn't take your carpark dent seriously - breach of s170 RTA 1988, video coming in the next 5 mins... th-cam.com/video/AYII4JRJSvM/w-d-xo.html
I'm surprised it's actually being debated. Whoever argued to the contrary should be prosecuted for spreading false information as it is clearly a safety issue and sounding that horn correctly actually saves peoples lives.
I think the main problem is that too many drivers only ever use their horn as a form of rebuke to other road users. As a consequence, people do tend to hear it and think "was that aimed at me? What am I doing wrong?" What you were doing was not much different to a cyclist about to pass a pedestrian on a shared path or bridleway. For me, the message is "I am about to pass you, don't be alarmed, you can just proceed in the same direction at the same speed as you are."
As a motorist, cyclist, and motorcyclist I can assure you that I can tell the difference between a ‘toot’ to let me know you are there/about to pass and the full on blast of the horn we often get for no apparent reason……. I never use my bell when approaching horses as it seems to startle them whereas they are used to the human voice and aren’t threatened by it. I should also state that I don’t jump red lights or ride through crossings either-I am certainly a long way from perfect but I try not to inconvenience other road users as far as possible.
Yep - I don't even ring my [cycle] bell when about to pass a horse rider - I just say in a normal volume: "coming up on your right" to the rider, in case they hadn't heard my approach.
@@frankhooper7871 I have passed horses on occasion and have been thanked for slowing down by the riders because I remember PSA ads that say horses could be spooked by cars travelling at high speed. Cyclists and those battery powered scooters however in many occasions are just as dangerous as those car drivers who feel entitled or impatiant.
Me too. Not only for safety reasons, but I don't like to startle the riders whilst they are on their mobile phones. What is with mobile phones? Yesterday I saw a young child, probably no more than ten, hurtling through our estate on a "push" scooter in the middle of the road. Steering one handed, mobile phone pressed to its ear, chatting away furiously as this feat of dexterity flashed past. However, the kids around here with the e-scooters and e-gokarts are an even greater hazard, to themselves and others. Also, don't get me started on the maniacs driving their mobility chariots at F1 speeds on the pavements! Rant over. 🧐 😀
@@simonbutterfield4860 Absolutely! Horses can easily get spooked. A friend of mine once had a horse jump on his car because of some idiot boy-racer sounding the horn behind the rider. PS: A couple of years back I was riding with a group of fellow motorcyclists and we all pulled into the side and shut off our engines, much to the relief and gratitude of the approaching horse riders. Good manners cost nothing, especially when safety is involved. Anyway, well done you! United we stand! PPS: Since the implementation of the new highway code I am loath to get on my bicycle. I’ll let the hatred and skirmishes settle down before I venture out!
In addition (I don't know for certain) Ashley may have been driving his electric car and wind noise may have prevented the cylists from hearing that there was a car behind them. The use of the horn seems totally justified in this example.
It maybe surprising to know but some of us do ride with rear facing radars. Such as Garmin Varia range of radars. We can know when a vehicle is behind us without looking back. It is a good idea to acknowledge then by looking back and making eye contact tho so they know you know they are there. I certainly wouldnt of had a problem with the toot of the horn as I know what the horn is meant for in the highway code.
@@grahamjones6712 so many cyclists seem to spend money on things like radar ,carbonfibre frames etc etc while most don,t even have roadworthy bikes - many shown on TH-cams do not conform to the use and construction regulations for cycles. If they were motor vehicles they would be checked regularly and stopped and fined if they do not follow the law. Cyclists unfortunately have no such system in force - any many expensive bikes have been modified so they don't conform to the law anymore( that's if they did in the first place). The current tendency is to emulate the tour de france by using racing bikes , going as fast as possible through traffic , and riding if only they matter and they are the king of the road.
@@winnie6354 Any details on what makes these bike unroadworthy/illegal and what modifications that people are making that does that? Mechanical propulsion vs human propulsion are two completely different things you cant compare, as such bicycles are 1. lights and reflectors after sunset and 2. "efficient" barkes on both wheels - thats the regulations. When cyclist brake the law there are fines and court just the same as any other road user, except those freeloading pedestrians running through crossings in expensive running shoes like they are racing Ussain Bolt or exempt from the rules of the road like they are a BMW or Mercedes (-Joke-)
@@andyp315 no rear reflectors , pedals don't have the required reflectors , no bell/horn . No lights when bikes used at night / in bad weather. To name a few .
Absolutely agree the taxi driver and the cyclist were completely in the wrong! I am a cyclist and use my bike for commuting to and from work. It makes me really angry when I see this sort of behaviour because quite often if a cyclist is killed/injured after doing something like this most people blame the drivers which is often not fair. Also Ashley's use of the horn was in no way excessive and certainly not used as a rebuke.
I don't agree with your comment about the taxi . there was no pedestrian actual on the crossing when the taxi approached. The trouble is pedestrians take no responsibility for themselves. they should wait until a vehicle stops. not just walk then expect it to stop. The bicycle is in the wrong because the crossing was being used....
@@brianperry Pedestrians were crossing and on the middle island therefore the taxi must stop and wait. HWC rule 195-you MUST give way when a pedestrian has moved onto a crossing (also) be aware of pedestrians approaching from the side of the crossing.
According to a Westminster council study, two thirds (68%) of collisions between cars & bikes in central London were the fault of the driver. So it is fair to blame the driver in the vast majority of cases. As for cyclist/pedestrian collisions, 60% were attributable to the pedestrian. Only 8% of incidents were down to a cyclists ignoring a red light. Virtually all road deaths involve a motor vehicle.
@@a.speers1365 as I said pedestrians take no responsibility, just keep walking and hope. Now the hwc has given them charters to blame everybody but themselves…
I’m a cyclist and if someone tooted like that at me just before passing I’d take it as a polite warning. Whilst it’s legal to ride two abreast, it would also be courteous and safer to go single file when hearing a vehicle approaching from behind
If you watch all of Ashley's video he points out the problem that by riding two a breast is it can makes it hard for a driver to pass giving the specified room on a narrow road, indeed this is the point of the video and makes me wonder if Ashley spent hours looking for this or if it was set up. Personally in the same circumstance I would 'single out' and let the car go out of curtesy and because being followed by a car isn't relaxing. Though again if you watch Ashley's video he says that he would not have passed earlier regardless because it wasn't safe, so from his perspective the only issue was that he had to pass too close rider on the outside because they were two abreast. Whether it is safer depends on the circumstances. In this clip there was no safety reason for the riders to continue to ride two abreast, but in some circumstances riding like this may be safer and this is the point of the rule changes. It tells riders and drivers that riding two abreast is allowed (it always was) and that it may be safer for riders to do so.
Your type of cyclists are few and fair between. I 100% agree cyclists need to be given space when passing but at the same time as you say they also need to help others
@@andycole6982 Riding two abreast is permitted , but only where safe and not inconveniencing others ; cyclists simply cannot do it wherever and whenever they please and to hell with everyone else ; if the road is narrow , or you are obstructing faster traffic then you are required to drop into single file . Charges of ether careless cycling or obstructing the highway are available .
Totally agree, but just remember that as a group if you are riding in a single line as our group does motorists will often overtake you and disregard the passing distance, it’s all about using common sense which we all know a good deal of impatient motorists don’t have.
@@derekheeps8012 The actual wording of rule 66 of the highway code is "be considerate of the needs of other road users when riding in groups. You can ride two abreast and it can be safer to do so, particularly in larger groups or when accompanying children or less experienced riders. Be aware of drivers behind you and allow them to overtake (for example, by moving into single file or stopping) when you feel it is safe to let them do so" so the emphasis is going to single file when safe. I often ride with my 10 year old on the roads, and for the most part I will ride two abreast, as I think this is safer for him and in the built up areas that I live it is often difficult to find sections where I consider it safe to go to single file. The requirement to drop to single file is only when it is safe, not whether your are obstructing faster traffic, but to also be considerate.
- Taxi driver commits an offence. (I stand corrected: Crossing is divided, so first taxi seems in the clear. The second taxi, coming from the other side, proceeds whilst a pedestrian was still on the crossing, so commits an offence.) - Cyclist commits an offence. - Driver passing cyclists shows correct use of the horn!
The crossing seen on the clip is clearly split into 2 separate crossings by way of the road layout/Markings and when the taxi drove thru,the crossing on His side of the road, it was clear..... Not Guilty,, Your Honour.?
@@maczaknjak2098 Possibly depends what mood the Judge is in. What I would say is he did not appear to slow down that much to take into account that any pedestrian may suddenly change direction 180 degrees and run back across the road?
@@PUBLICSECTORJOBSWORTHS This happened to me once when I was driving, although not on a crossing, but a main road. A drunk (I assumed as had can of bear in one hand) was crossing the road decided to turn back half way and then turned back again in his original direction. I had assessed his movement but did not anticipate him turning back to continue in his original direction. We all make assumptions about the future movements of cars and pedestrians and sometimes we're wrong. I hit him and also hit and smashed my windscreen. He layed in the road and I was in shock. Always best to drive slow when there are pedestrians about.
Being a cyclist who's never worn lycra... I tend to follow the rules and are considerate to others commuting on (or crossing) the road. What's more... my bike isn't stolen, so I never drive on the pavement & I always use proper safety equipment (helmet, lights) and signal my intent to others.
As another cyclists, I'll just add that I don't _always_ signal, due to the abysmal state of many of our roads where taking one hand off the handlebar can often be more dangerous than failing to signal.
i can assure you that being on the pavement isn't a sign of a stolen bike 😂 wish it were always possible to signal intent, most often needing to keep both hands on the bars just in case someone does something stupid/erratic and I need to hit the brakes. lycra is a pretty irrelevant factor in the equation, most people I find breaking the rules where I live are people in everyday clothes 🤷♂️
Agreed. If I wear any lycra it is because it is bright, partially reflective, and comfortable when I would otherwise be getting hot, sweaty and not very pleasant to be near. :) If people think I look stupid in lycra, that is their problem. Due to it's visibility, at least I am still alive for them to be able to think it.
Not sure about the relevance of the Lycra, but it's good to hear that you demonstrate consideration for others, I also do, perhaps it's because I also don't ware Lycra 😉
When I ride on the country roads near my home I always try and get to a point where if safe I wave cars through. This little act has resulted in waves of thanks from the majority of motorists. It is what you would do if you were in a slow moving car after all. Just a little act that I hope helps reduce the annoyance felt by drivers of arrogant cyclists like in your video.
“we still see scenes like this one”. Video of a pedestrian stopping the cyclist is much older than the consultation and new guidance on priority. In fact it is from 2016. Still a good example of poor road use, but you should acknowledge that this is not a new incident. The original even has date time information recorded on it that has been cropped from this version.
Let's not be pedantic , but the law in 2016 was the same - you have to stop if there are pedestrians on the crossing. While the video may be 2016 "incidents "like this are not a thing of the past with the new legislation . Cyclists are still regularly seen cycling through pedestrians on crossings.Why do they do it ? Because they believe they are above the law - but are committing a criminal offence all the same. It could be argued they are using their bicycle as a weapon- that would be the view if a motor car/van/lorry did the same.
@@winnie6354 if these things are still happening, then it should not be hard to find evidence of such. This video is not evidence of these things still happening and neither are anecdotal comments. I find it insightful that outrage for the taxi driver and cyclist are not equal even though both committed the exact same offence. Statically motorists break more laws than cyclists and kill vastly more people and children in our communities, but the outrage is not evident.
@@kidkarbon4775 the taxi and cyclists are not the same - when the taxi passes there is no one on the crossing . When the cyclists pass there are pedestrians walking across the crossing.
@@winnie6354 I appreciate differing views exist with regards to this particular footage, but it's right that it condemned. Whatever your view, this footage would not stand up in court as evidence of things still happening. As such it is only correct to ask for evidence as hearsay, speculation, and opinion is not fact.
@@winnie6354 Hence it is high time cyclists had to be registered and wear a hi viz tabard displaying their registration marks across their backs ; being made traceable and accountable would stop a lot of poor cycling overnight since many of them ignore the law because they feel they will never be caught .
I'm a cyclist and have no problem with Ashley's use of the horn, though I do find it difficult with my car to get the merest 'toot' out of the horn. I do have an issue with _anyone,_ cyclist or otherwise, who goes through zebra crossings with pedestrians on them, and thought it was brilliant and hilarious the way that bloke stood up to the git on the bike. The same goes for jumping red lights - it's illegal and of course, dangerous; no-one should be doing it.
funny, but the pedestrian put themselves at risk by backing up into and getting right up in the guys face. we already knew the cyclist is an arse for trying to cut right behind crossing pedestrians, it wouldn't be a shock to see them get physical and defensive for being confronted about it.
@@rboydphotography also there is no excuse for physical assault, which is what the pedestrian has done to the cyclist by man-handling them. I understand why people believe it is justified, and the cyclist is 100% in the wrong, but 2 wrongs do not make a right.
@@Pattoe Not assault ; the pedestrian had every right to apprehend the cyclist and even place him under citizens arrest ; with the video evidence he could have been charged with dangerous cycling .
Fair points all. - The timing of the "Horn Warning" was spot on - early enough to allow the driver to react in the event that the cyclist(s) were spooked - short enough not to intimidate.
A driver should not spook a cyclist. What about tooting when passing a horse and rider or pedestrian walking in the road when there is no pavement? After all you are just letting them know you are there! In relation to the cyclist, Ash was too close to toot as a warning of his presence.
@@radishpea6615 Not relevant examples really. A Horse is not aware in the same manner as a human as to cars and the sounds. And people walking on the side of the road would be far enough away from the vehicle that it wouldn't be an issue.
@@davidlewis8899 Really? wow! horse pedestrian and cyclist can all be spooked but the result may be different. Why would a pedestrian in the road be any further from a vehicle then a cyclist? How puts them further away?
@@radishpea6615 Pedestrians generally take up less space on a road than Cyclists because they're less vulnerable to indentations on the road and are therefore less likely to swerve or wobble. Additionally Cylists tend to cycle two abreast and because they then have to keep out farther from each other than two Pedestrians would , take up as much road space as a car.
@@elliegreen4738 and yet traffic can still pass too closely to pedestrians. I am still to see a sensible reason for hooting a cyclist when you do not hoot to overtake anything else. The reason given to hoot, is to make them aware, so why not make everyone else aware?
Yep I’m with you, it wasn’t a toot in anger (like so many people seemed to be assuming… evidently they only use theirs for that purpose) but an awareness toot to say “don’t jump in shock as I go past if you haven’t noticed me”… as Ashley has recently moved into an electric car this is potentially even more important as there will be less “noise” from the car itself
It used to be that you Had to sound your horn when approaching blind bends. As for impatient taxi-drivers and reckless cyclists, as with e-scooters, nothing will change unless the police step away from their pcs and get active...
Ashley's use of the horn was perfectly fine and would be appreciated by me as a cyclist. The issue is simply that too many people use the horn in anger ( not me ) and it puts a cyclist on edge whenever a horn is used near them.
I ride on a shared footpath and cycle way and if approaching pedestrians from behind I give a little ring because it can be alarming to have a bike which you were not aware of pass you, also there is no guarantee that dog walkers will hold their line. I think that bicycle bells should be required but I haven't checked the Highway Code.
good stuff, when i hear that bell i immediately drag my 130kgs of dogs into the verge to allow you to pass unhindered. Manners man. Have a good day out.
@@BusbyTreeSurgery It isn’t always sweetness and light I take the rough with the smooth. Once a group of ladies with dogs were standing having a chat, they saw me coming but didn’t move then one of them remonstrated with me for passing too close and too fast. I told them off because after all, I was using the way they had judged to be sufficient.
"Be aware of drivers behind you and allow them to overtake " taken from Highway Code for cyclists. I often stop for trucks, cars or farm tractors to allow them past on my bike, I just wish other cyclists would observe this rule.
Agreed. Pulling into a gap between parked cars where traffic is light to let a following motorist past or saying "good morning" as you pass pedestrians on shared paths on an early morning commute are simple things that can help to dispel the "lycra lout" image that society often has of cyclists. I also operate a policy of not getting involved in aggro, both when cycling and when driving, even in the face of provocation. People should be fined for breach of the peace for using their horns as a rebuke.
Now, majority of the time I despise cyclists... But this is a prime example of taring all with the same brush. Thanks! As a HGV driver often on single carriageway NSL I encounter a lot of cyclists. Overtaking is almost impossible due to the sheer length and the fact I can hardly accelerate, plus I like to give plenty of room and straddle both lanes.. With a huge tailback, and me doing 20mph I've seen some very dangerous manouvers out of desperation and frustration.. I'm not saying cars own the road, and you must move out of the way.. But when you're doing a third of the speed limit and you know there's been someone behind you for a good 5 minutes. I'll even indicate left and let off the throttle when the road ahead is clear to let cars behind me pass just so people can get on with their days and do their stuff...its not hard to be courteous as you've said and do actually do, so yes. Thanks again
@@Svyp3r Yeah, it doesn't mean go off in a ditch. It means slow down and move over to LET faster moving traffic overtake. For arguments sake, a solid white line shouldn't be crossed.... but can be crossed to overtake a cyclist. If rules can be broken to overtake cyclists, then they should "allow them to overtake" like the Highway Code states.
@@Svyp3r This is the same Highway code that applies to all road users, so if it doesn't apply to cyclists, it doesn't apply to other road users either by your thinking
@@Svyp3r highway code section 6 - 129 Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less. Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26
It's rather ironic really, the issue stems from people's misinformed and false notion for the usage of the horn. As you stated BBB. When you understand that the horn isn't a tool for venting anger, the confusion goes away!
Except many motorist will/do use their horn in anger. Often accompanied with hand gestures. Their is a good chance if you beep your horn whilst overtaking a cyclist it might be misunderstood.
@@kevinprice4005 Which is exactly why the clarification needs explaining and the misinformation - again what BBB stated. People need to stop with the excuses (in general). We've all got driving wrong to some degree.
How many time have we seen in videos where the camera car driver lays on his horn, then gets a reaction from the other vehicle. When all the CCD needed to do was slow a little, yes the driver may have been in the right but is it worth a confrontation. Defensive driving comes to mind as taught on The Advance Driver Course.
Having just spent a few days in London have to say this seems to be the norm. Red light jumping, not stopping at crossings crossings and riding on footways - all perfectly if you are cycling. Ok it seems in London. My observation was that the Police Officers were just ignoring it.
I was taught to beep the horn on my motorbike as I was about to over take a car to let them know my intentions.I noticed when I ride my bicycle on shared cycle padestrian path, If I ring my bell I get scowled at but if I use my voice I get a better reaction. People can be funny.
Exactly. A horn elicits the same reaction among recipients (whether they be other motor vehicles or cyclists) as a bicycle bell does amongst pedestrians. I rarely use my bell because it angers people. It easier just to say 'excuse me' or 'cyclist behind you' than to use a bell. The only time when you MUST make a lot of noise is behind horses. Horses are hard-wired not to like stealthy silent things and are freaked out by quite bicycles in the say way they are freaked out by big cats. When approaching a horse it is best to make your approach loud so that the horse and rider know you're approaching.
When I trained to become an advanced motorcyclist , was told off for indicating for a car I was about to overtake as it was pointless as no reason for him to move onto opposite side of the road as no hazards ahead or right turn. If I tooted my horn , I would have been told off aswell as no reason for it.
I was a Police advanced driver. On both my basic advanced and refresher we were absolutely expected to give a very short toot on the horn (audible warning instrument in legalese) just to let people like this cyclist and for example pedestrians standing on a kerb perhaps on their phones or otherwise distracted and looked as if they may step out in front of you that you were there. Ashley gave his at just the right moment and in good time and certainly not with a long and offensive blast. I would support what Ashley did and his awareness of a vulnerable road user to make them politely and gently aware of his presence. Agree entirely with others regarding not appropriate for livestock. Retired now and so do not know if this still taught on the basic or advanced courses perhaps someone serving if they view this could enlighten us with the current thinking.
I totally agree. I too was taught in a similar way using "Roadcraft" but NHS Ambulance Service not police. Feature 5 if my memory serves me right. I too am retired so would also be interested to know if this is still taught.
And when I did my advanced training some years back this was something as a cyclist I very much objected to. Either it's safe to pass and you've acknowledged al the hazards, are travelling at a speed you can stop well within the distance you can see to be clear and have given a safety buffer for the cyclists (or other vulnerable road user) such that you can stop or deviate IF they have to change direction suddenly. you wouldn't sound your horn passing an equestrian so why would you do it passing people on cycles when this can make them jump/feel alarm or even feel fear? This insistanc on sounding your horn is really poor from a safety point of view and it does not increase the safety of those vulnerable parties. If pedestrians are on their phone, maybe you should slow down such that you can account for them stepping off, sounding your horn just shouts get out the way, after all they have a lwful right to be there, you in your motorvehicle have no rights to be there whatsoever, you are there by privelege of licence alone.
I was taught this on the non police Advanced Driving Course by a Gloucester Police Advanced Driver, back in the 1970s. I taught him to mono water ski, but he got wetter than me.
@@ynotnilknarf39 you weren't much of an advanced driver if you don't understand or appreciate the use of the horn or you got 'annoyed' at people who used it. Feature 5 in roadcraft.
I agree with the use of the horn. I do, however think. Motor vehicles should be fitted with a two tier horn. First tier a lot quieter and less aggressive sounding for that exact situation. Second tier a lot louder for emergencies.
Citroen used to have "town and country" horns fitted to the CX. Press the horn button a bit and you got the "toot toot", press it a harder and a Masseratie two tone air horn would let rip. If the first horn didn't get your attention, the second one most certainly did.
he did not get the tesla add on extra extending arm to gently tap the cyclist on the shoulder and gently say hi there my car is about to attempt a pass manoeuvre , please try to keep in a straight line for the next few seconds, thanks.
Electric vehicles are much quieter than their internal combustion counter parts. I was coming out of a local coffee shop, about to turn a corner on foot and a Tesla moved in and I stepped back. Didn’t even hear him approach.
@@BostonBobby1961 That said, I note that due to huge improvements in efficiency internal combustion engines are much quieter now, including diesels (noise represents wasted energy) and I often cannot hear non electric vehicles.
@Advanced Driving They do now, at speeds less than 20 km/h, but older ones - such as my 2017 made hybrid, do not. That said, even lots of conventional petrol engined ones are so quite at low speed moves in car parks and the like, that those who don’t look won’t know you’re there.
Mr BBB. I was under the impression that the central island splits the crossing into 2 separate zones, there is then, a safe space to pause to allow other vehicles to observe you. I've only been driving 40yrs - Help!
I think Ashleys brief toot of his horn was necessary to notify the cyclists of his prescence and intention to over take, especially as they seemed oblivious to the fact that he was indeed there at all.
I personally just don't see what the point of tooting is if the motorist's intention doesn't influence the cyclists current course of action. It's up to the cyclists to look & make sure the situation is ok before they perform any change of action (eg maneuvers) anyway. A lot of car horns are really loud & can make you jump when you're not expecting it which is not very pleasant. It's also the only means motorists generally have to audibly communicate something's wrong which means you then have to fully assess the situation to make sure you're not in immediate danger, which again, isn't fun. As an aside & being a cyclist myself, it's frustrating to see other cyclists not singling out on busy roads. The only benefit it brings is to be able to have a chat but it holds up other motorists more, so they should save it it for quiet minor roads instead imo.
I've been tooted whilst riding my bike. I knew what it meant and so did the tooters. When they passed I put my hand up to say 'thank you' and on each occasion the responded.
Have you ever seen a cyclist hit someone due to this though? No, you have not It's perfectly safe when it's perfectly safe, like it was in the video until the pedestrian made it into an altercation
I believe the TV series was called "A look at life", Old B&W program, some available on TH-cam. One in particular raises this point. "Before overtaking give a short blast on your horn to let fellow road users know you are about to overtake".
there was an excellent episode on TH-cam with an IAM driver in a MkII Jaguar on the motorway and rather enthusiastic about his use of the horn : BLAAAARE , and again BLAAAARE !
Ashley was using the horn correctly, gentle toot to alert people to you being there. It should be noted he drives an electric car. The taxi and cyclist were breaking the “old” rules . We all need to behave better than that.
All modern cars are quiet, even petrol and diesel engines, since when you have your foot off the accelerator when still in gear and moving they cut off the fuel to make them more eco-friendly ( I know, a car is far from eco-friendly). If you take your foot off to slow down some distance away they will not hear you coming unless you toot to let them know that this is the case. On a narrow rural road where cars have to pass each other with their nearside wheels on the verge cyclists riding two abreast need advance warning to go into single file when they feel safe to do so. You cannot pass them at any speed if they are two abreast. This is a failing of the new rules where it should be considered if it should be mandatory for them to go single file or pull over where to do otherwise stops anyone from passing them from either direction. The new rules assume all roads are two lanes with a nice white line down the centre of them.
Electric cars are almost as loud as combustion engine cars above a certain speed because of tyre noise. The cyclists would have been well aware of his presence.
Excellent point regarding the electric cars, the issue nowadays is that people tend to use their horn in anger whereas it should always be an alert, especially when we're all driving electric cars.
As a cyclist, I thank (Ashley?) for looking out for those two cyclists safety. Wish we had more motorists taking care of cyclists especially young and inexperienced cyclists who are not as road aware.
I have been saying this for so long , 🤷🏾♂️I Don't know why people think the horn being tooted means disrespect or otherwise 🤔 .The horn is on vehicles to use to make people aware of your presence ... We must Educate people about this because they seem to think its use to swear at someone and that's delusional 🙄..
@@robinwalmsley896 Not so sure about that, as you would need to be looking at the vehicle to be able to see the flashing. The horn on the other hand, can be effective when the other road user can not be seen, for instance when approaching a sharp bend or from behind. I would say however that a loud horn can be an issue not just for horses, but also cyclists who may swerve in response to it if startled.
@@robinwalmsley896 Be aware you can also get done for "inappropriate use of headlights", as happened to a mate of mine. He flashed an oncoming beetle in his beetle, said bug was being followed by a plouce car, they ticketed him for the above offence.
When I toot politely to let another car user know of my approach they inevitably blast their own horn in an offensive way, usually accompanied by a non-regulation hand signal.
If someone passed me like Ashley passed that cyclist I would probably give a thumbs up in acknowledgment. Most road users are trying to get from A to B safely and with minimal hassle.
Where I live cyclists have taken to riding on the pavement at speed and nearly all jump red lights. It got to the point that the blind, partial sighted, disabled and elderly are terrified to step out of homes. The police refuse to do anything about it. Quite a few locals are talking about "making an example" of cyclists. This is not going to end well.
the blind, partial sighted, disabled and elderly are terrified........... kinell m8 where d'you live?? hospital villas, hospital street, hospitalsville.............??
I've been watching Ashley Neal's vids since I was learning a few years ago, passed my test, and kept on watching them to this day. Correct use of the horn is a kind of recurring theme on Ashley's channel. That cyclist in the video was a BitOfAWanker, if that is his real name...
Before commenting: Yes - I know this is an old video, I said _"We still see scenes like this one"_ - which I do. Under current Rules, _"Drivers and riders should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross and MUST give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing."_ Although with common courtesy and sensible driving, this should always have been the case! My cousin was killed as a child on a crossing in a situation just like this one. In my view, the taxi should have stopped regardless the man was ON the crossing or not.
It is time you moderated some of these comments. I am being called by John Hartley above because I said no one pays road tax and they pay VED he is ranting and has gone as far as to call me a joke and is close to being abusive.
Glad to see two of my favourite TH-camrs collaborating and being friendly ;-) Talking about using horns / cycle bells (wish they were compulsory) - I was reminded of the time I was walking my dog over some meadows by a river. I had my dog on a fairly long lead at the time and suddenly became aware of a 'whish whish' noise behind me. Dogs are allowed to run freely here, btw. Just a few feet away was a cyclist approaching quite quickly. I just had time to grab my dog and stand to the side. "Sorry, Love," said the cyclist. "I didn't know whether to ring the bell in case it scared you." "Please do," was all I could retort.
why should a bell be compulsory, I find calling out much more friendly, ringing bells tends to upset some folk. Fact, a horn on a motor bike is not required, as they can shout out loud.
I don't have a bell I always call out politely and have rarely had a problem. Reason is on the roads generally they are useless no one in a car will hear them, they are not loud enough. They can be awkward to get at due to also controlling the bike with the handlebars at the same time in many situations. On shared paths and country roads, I will call out in good time, not when I am on top of them, "Passing on your right/left" I then watch for the reaction before passing. My gob is louder than any bell and walkers don't always take notice of bells as they are miles away having a stroll. Speaking of dogs, I do notice many will walk the dogs way out in front on those long leads which is dangerous to cyclists if they don't see them or the dog wanders, people have been brought down with them. I believe that two metres is the limit they should be let out so I was told. Would have to investigate. It would help also if walkers on the roads walk on the right facing oncoming traffic, this way you need not worry about cyclist coming up behind you and oncoming cyclist will see you and you will see them, much safer.
As a cyclist in USA I agree with you on every point. I loved the pedestrian neatly challenging and getting in the way of the it’s-all-about-me cyclist. It almost looks choreographed.
When you use your horn to indicate your presence, try waving enthusiastically directly afterwards. It stops the offended/angry reaction and leaves the hootee wondering "who the hell's that?"
@@BusbyTreeSurgery Trust me, that'll never happen! they'll be so puzzled they wouldn't even consider it! I've been doing it to cars threatening to pull out on me for years and I've seen the cogs turning while they try to work out who they know who rides a motorcycle. A cheery wave beats a middle finger.
Well done that pedestrian on the crossing. He gave the cyclist something to remember. Many people don't realise the horn on a car is a warning. Probably because when they use it, to them it means 'you bastard'.
This behaviour is normal in London and absolutely not normal in most places (outside of the big cities in the UK). It's worse for pedestrians when cars do it tbh. Culture in decline.
It happened to me, I was crossing with a green for pedestrians and red for road traffic, a cyclist ran into me in the middle of the crossing(jumping the red), this was in the Derbyshire Dales about 30 or 40 yrs ago. Normal in other places, been normal for a long time.
This behaviour is normal in London perhaps🙄 if cyclists had a number plate stuck on their back identifying them id assume alot of this NORMAL behaviour would stop due to fixed penalty fines dropping through their letter box
Sadly, number plates do not prevent a significant minority of car drivers from speeding, using mobile phones, driving without insurance, etc. On that basis alone, I do not think that number plates for cyclists are the answer. Many times we see cyclists doing stupid things, it is their own sense of self-preservation that appears to be lacking. Those that care for their own safety ride more cautiously anyway.
It's entirely possible that the cyclists couldn't hear AN behind them - I've had it, even on mildly breezy days, where modern cars are pretty quite and it's not until they're right near you that you really hear them.
I can hear them before I see them in the mirrors. I will then work out where they will overtake , look for hazards and plan ahead. Cyclist are not as dumb and situationally ignorant as one might think
I worked for a year in Trafalgar Square, I saw a lot of cyclists taken way by ambulance after a crash in that area. Two of them were lying on the stretcher not moving with no one trying to revive or communicate with them so I think they were dead
Yes, that's what I thought when I was sitting in endless queues in my car. It's also why I bought a bicycle. You are wrong about the majority of cyclists being reckless, most are highly vigilant regarding unobservant car drivers.
@@DavidFraser007 I'd argue that point. It is possible to be both vigilant and reckless. "I see that car, but they will try not hit me". When I can sit at traffic lights, and see not a single cyclist obey the rules, it is not really "a few". Another aspect is, and this isn't personal, the attitude many cyclists seem to take when discussing "the few". It does make me think they take the same attitudes onto the roads and become part of those few.
There is many times on a single track road and a car passes safely and there is a following which also follows through. At times like this I would actually really appreciate a toot of the horn to let me know of there presence
Regardless of what you are riding you need to be aware of others on the road and respect the rule! It is sad that some idiots ruin it for the rest of the people. this cyclist clearly needs to face a judge and get the book thrown at them!
tooting the horn in that situation is no different from a cyclist ringing their handlebar bell - something that I'm grateful for when I'm out jogging on the local cycle trail and they're riding up behind me
You can almost guarantee pedestrians will turn around in any or multiple directions when you ring a bike bell. It rarely makes things safer than taking responsibility for not running in to them by adjusting your speed and position.
All bikes should have Bells but they don't. If a cyclists slows down and rings their bell,I thank them. If they speed past me ringing their bell I swear at them.
It’s not ideal to be jogging on a cycle trail. There are few places where cyclists can go safely away from both pedestrians and motorists, but a specified cycle trail should be one of them.
As a cyclist I think bells are a bit pointless as most people don't hear them anyway. I prefer either just doing a wide loop around pedestrians or just politely asking them if I can pass if that's not possible
Advanced driving technique. I was taught to make others aware of your presence decades ago and the hierarchy of vulnrability too. For instance. A quick toot before turning in makes the pedestrian turn around. A cyclist stationary at the roadside looks up and sees you. It may get a grumpy reaction from the ignorant few of the intention, but better that than... I'm using Ashley's content to show others driving technique. Thanks to both of you.
I don't know what car Ashley was driving at the time but I know he has a Tesla. Much quieter than a conventional car. Chances are the cyclists wouldn't have known he was there
Unless you are revving, tyre and airflow noise becomes dominant over about 30mph. EVs are not silent. I can clearly hear them, even in town at lower speeds.
the first pedestrian was not actually on the crossing when the taxi passed through, but the cyclist was totally in the wrong, though if the stroppy guy hadn't stopped, the cyclist would have slipped through behind him. In my opinion, that's the big problem with many of us brits, to rigid adherence to rules and a disability to be flexible.
Very good post, as a cyclist for over 30 years (and still alive) it boils my pi$$ when I see other cyclists flouting the rules. This of course also applies to motorists. Bottom line is we are all road users and should abide by the rules and respect each other’s right to use it.
Earlier in the week a woman cyclist was killed when in collision with an HGV. No comment about that. Later there was a demonstration by cyclists to have the junction made safer. The BBC reporter was there and, while talking to an organiser, a cyclist rode behind them ONTHE PAVEMENT, followed shortly by another. Many of the collisions are caused by cyclists especially in the narrow streets of London. The death toll of them is horrendous, something like 9 in the last ten years!!!
Interesting I'd just finished reading the book for defensive driving here in NZ and one of the recommendations for overtaking cyclits is a brief toot on the horn. Also if you are riding in a cycle path and overtaking other cyclists the recommendation is to ring your bell to let them know you are behind them.
I know that zebra crossing and have used it many times as a pedestrian where that has often happened to me. In addition I have lost count of the number of times I have walked in London where the minority of cyclists have gone through pedestrian controlled red lights and jumped red lights at junctions where pedestrians have been crossing on the green man. Yes it’s a minority of cyclists but please let us all look after each other. Btw on the priority changes since the end of January, as a car driver ( as well as being a pedestrian and cyclist) every time I have tried to give way to pedestrians waiting to cross at a junction, none have crossed whilst I have waited for them.
I'm sure there used to be something out that when your going round a blind corner you could use your horn to make others aware you're there. I will say one thing, I feel a lot safer overtaking cyclist after they have acknowledge me IE looked and seen i was there.
I did that on my Advanced Driving test back in 1988. Basically because I read about it in an old version of Roadcraft. The examiner (a Police driving instructor) was impressed; he told me none of his other students ever did that.
It was taught, when I learned to drive, to use the horn on blind bends, hump back bridges etc. but then cars had less soundproofing and few had blasting music so other drivers would he able to hear the horn of an oncoming car. Not like that these days. That said it did drive a friend of mine bonkers as he lived adjacent to a hump backed bridge. I find myself still tooting occasionally on some of the narrow twisting roads around Derbyshire - much to the amusement of any friend travelling with me!
When I was learning to drive a bus I was told to sound my horn when approaching blind bends, bridges and anywhere else where my sudden appearance would cause someone to either soil there pants or panic and crash!
The Vienna Road Convention dictates that the use of the horn can be extended to overtaking any road user to let them know you're about to do just that. Therefore Ashley's actions were justified and the criticisms he faced are thus disparaged. NB - and upon me just researching the Vienna convention for road traffic I can confirm that the provisions of it are in effect in the UK and that our own highway code rule system closely mirrors it.
Hi a quick legal question Alex Belfield is asking people to boycott Smirnoff Vodka because he believes it’s made in Russia but it made in Britain can he be sued by Smirnoff
Cyclists like that one at the crossing me think that cycle number-plates are a good idea. It could be a slot-in small number plate unique to each rider - you slot it into a holder on the back of the bike when you're going to ride it, remove it from the bike when you lock the bike up/leave it. That way you only need 1 number plate even if you use for-hire bikes: it's the person that the number plate is assigned to, not the bike. There should be a serious fine for not having a number plate: let's say £500, and a more serious fine for using a false/borrowed/stolen number late, something like £5000. That way BAD cyclists can be held to account: the way it is at present they can ride off into the wild blue yonder leaving any victims unlikely to positively I.D. them..
@@stephenhill8790 I'd love to know the source for your data. The best I've found is an article from 'The Week' in 2014 stating that: "One pedestrian was killed by a cyclist and 78 were seriously injured in 2012" [edited to add:] OK, ;I found another article from 'The Times' in 2018 stating: "More than 120 pedestrians were seriously hurt in collisions with bikes last year and three were killed"
@@frankhooper7871 Ok, so we can likely reduce injury to 79 people a year and potentially prosecute them so that the injured can get their medical bills paid get compensation. Why wouldn't we want to do that?
As a retired JP I fully agree with your submission. In this case the use of the horn was perfectly reasonable and beneficial to the cyclists who were probably unaware of his presence.
What annoyes me more than anything, is council's have spent hundreds of thousands of pounds putting in cycle lanes and duel use pavements to give cyclists a safe place to ride, away from traffic and they still insist on riding down the road right next to a cycle lane. I had it is week, I drive a 44 ton lorry I do my utmost to give cyclist a wide berth when passing, well over the 1.5 mtrs required. This cyclist wasn't even making any speed, I probably could of walked faster, he was on a 50 mph road cycling within 6 feet of a cycle path, it just beggers belife to be honest.
I will always use a cycle path when ones available, also, if there's a lorry behind me and I'm holding it up I will pull in where safe do so to let the lorry pass
Most cycle lanes are inadequate, often filled with rubbish that the same councils have failed to clean up, a cyclist is often more likely to have an accident riding there and end up falling in front of motor vehicles. While I accept that YOU may give cyclists plenty of room there are far too many motorists who do not, should a cyclist take the chance that it is one of those approaching from the rear?
I am a retired traffic police officer , cyclist and motorist. As a motorist I always give a slight horn warning to cyclists where appropriate and as a cyclist I absolutely appreciate motorists who afford me this safety measure.
i am just a little bit surprised there is not even a mention of that pedestrian jumping in front of the cyclist and the dangerous situation he puts himself in
@@stephenpalfreyman4755 I agree and call hogwash on this clip. If you watch it closely, the pedestrian turns a full 180 degrees and initiates physical contact with the cyclist. While the cyclist definitely should have stopped further back at the beginning of the crosswalk, the pedestrian is in effect assaulting the cyclist. Apparently the pedestrian thinks he is an undercover constable enforcing the law, he should have simply stopped said something to the cyclist. You can't go around bashing into others when you believe they have violated a law, whether you are in your car or not.
I quite agree with all you have said and I do watch Ash, as a driver, a cyclist and a trail walker the thing that makes me really ANGRY!!! is when walkig I get no warning of cyclists coming up behind me because 99% dont have a BELL.
I watch Ashley's videos, great youtuber and great driving advice, I commented on one of his videos about your video talking about blind people and the change to the highway code.
I am a cyclist of some 50 yrs. The modern motorcar is very quiet and also cyclist get wind rush in their ears, due to this many times I turn to look behind as I think there is a car there to find there is not its the wind rush. A little toot on the horn often helps we don't always know you are there. You will find most Cycling club groups will move over to allow passing as soon as it is safe to do so. In my club we do this often, and if it is a really a well disciplined club they will have a backmarker man/.woman that will shout car up when there is one behind and this is reiterated up the pack so they can expect a passing.
Tooting the horn sounds reasonable under the circumstances. The motorist shouldn't be censured for doing so. But I would never sound the horn myself as it's not really necessary. If you're gonna overtake just do so leaving plenty of room.
And that's fine provided the cyclists are aware of your position and actions. There are "ninja" cyclists (often wearing black, no lights, probably have earphones in) that sometimes pull across the oncoming lane (because there's nothing coming) without bothering to look behind. I have cycled into them on a couple of occasions when just overtaking them at around 15mph. So whether the horn is necessary may depend on whether you believe the cyclist to be aware of your location and probable intent.
@@GodmanchesterGoblin you're obviously exercising great care. From my experience of Cambridge, a lot of cyclists are quite reckless and I'd be as careful as you are.
My police driver training, we used the horn for two reasons only, bearing in mind its official name is an "audible warning of approach. Firstly, a "greeting" toot as Ashley did, to let another road user know he was there, and secondly, an "area warning," which is a long blast on the horn when approaching a blind bend on a county road, for example. Also used simply to alert others that you are there. What Ashley did was perfectly legal.
I used to live in Sweden and it was policy to give a brief toot of the horn before overtaking anyone, purely to let them know that you were there. It has to be acknowledged that you could drive there for a couple of hours without seeing another vehicle so it was a useful reminder for anyone who had been unaware thet you were encroaching and about to pass them.
Yes , as it is on most of the continent : I have driven in Holland , Germany , Denmark , Austria , Switzerland and Italy , good horn use in all those countries , although in Rome , if there is a hold up you can hear some enthusiastic horn use ! Sweden sounds a bit like here in Scotland : I can leave Inverness and take the A82 down through Fort William and back to Dumbarton of an evening and hardly see any other vehicles ; great drive with the top down , but watch for sheep !
Did the Taxi driver actually break the law.? I believe not - although for good manners, best practice and safety, I would stop. One of the Three 'Random' Highway-Code questions I had at the end of my Driving test (long before Theory Tests) was: "When is a pedestrian crossing treated as two crossings?". The given and accepted answer was "When there is an Island or Central Reservation" The pedestrians in the video appeared to all be on the opposite side crossing deck or the island, not on the deck the taxi crossed.
Hi Black Belt barrister, I clicked to watch this video because the caption mentions Ashley Neal a U-tubing driving instructor who I much respect, I also agree that you are correct about the appropriate use of the horn, the thing I was watching most closely was the timing, since the sound of a horn might startle the cyclists it is very important that the car driver allows enough space and time to respond to any sudden reaction from the riders. In this case I was well satisfied. In many similar situations when a car has come from behind and tooted too loudly too close I will brake as hard as I can to respond to the implied hazard, if this causes the car driver to brake even harder then that is on them!, I only do this sort of thing when the road ahead is perfectly clear and there is no good reason for the hooter!. The other problem with city traffic is much as you say, however there is never any excuse for any road users to express their frustration in a dangerous way, the pedestrian who intercepted the cyclist did so in a way that was not particularly dangerous or aggressive, making a good point very clearly without undue aggression, the taxi driver on the other hand was in flagrant breach of all decent behaviour and should have his taxi licence revoked, if for no better reason than that type of black cab is charging for their time on each journey not for the distance travelled, I can understand how many commercial delivery drivers find things difficult but the cure for that is to prohibit the payment per deliveries and insist on payment for time driving. Ultimately all of this bad behaviour can only be controlled by having qualified patrolmen and women out there on the streets stopping and delaying people who break the rules, post offence punishment is little deterrent compared to being caught in the act!. Cheers, Richard.
I do exactly the same - a quick 'pip' to warn the cyclists I'm coming up behind them (a lot of them have earphones of one sort or another in use, and cannot hear a darn thing except their 'music'.) As a p.s., I still have my old Cycling Proficency badge from the 1950/60's somewhere - it turns up now and then when I'm looking for someother small item.
Completely agree, during my commute in the dark, there is a car that flashes it’s headlights before they pass me, I always appreciate that. Obviously you can’t see the headlights during the day so it makes sense to use the horn instead. Too many people are offended by the horn however it’s something I use when approaching a junction on my motorbike with a car waiting to pull out who hasn’t looked my way, a little beep and as soon as they look a wave to show I wasn’t telling them off.
I've been yelled at by cyclists (yes several) in Manchester while crossing a road on a pedestrian crossing to "get out the f-ing way". Motorists who behave like that with cyclists are regularly and rightly prosecuted. I've yet to see a cyclist held to account in this way.
I'm old and someone has probably already stated this but when I was young we were told to ride bikes in single file not side by side, there were even public information films on the TV to tell us this.
As a cyclist, I really appreciate a warning from a car about to overtake me - either a brief toot in the day or a flash of the lights at night. Well done Ashley Neal!
You mentioned it briefly - with these new regs EVERY bicycle should be legally required to be fitted with a bell to enable warning of pedestrians - how many of us, out walking, have been passed by a cyclist from behind, sometimes at speed , with complete surprise? While I'm on my hobby horse with these new regs it should also now be a legal requirement that all bicycles be fitted with a rear view mirror. And thanx BBB for you excellent channel.
I'd go along with that. My cycle did come with a bell fitted, but I found it too shrill and fitted one with a better tone...and yes, I have a mirror fitted to both my cycles.
There were no pedestrians on the crossing when the taxi drove over it. Highway Code Rule 20 - Where there is an island in the middle of a zebra crossing, wait on the island and follow Rule 19 before you cross the second half of the road - it is a separate crossing. Nonetheless I do think the Taxi should have stopped. Unless you mean the Taxi on the other side who passed behind someone already on the crossing.
Old rules state the Taxi driver "should" stop. Not stopping leaves the driver open to prosecution from a whole range of laws/rules. Anyone arguing to the contrary needs to imagine what happens when a two tonne vehicle hits a 70kg adult or a 20kg child. Please do not confuse advice for a pedestrian to the rules for a licensed vehicle driver. Driving is a privilege not a right, that privilege can easily be removed.
@@groot6830 I Wholeheartedly agree Groot. If you meet anyone arguing to the contrary and who confuses pedestrians with Taxi drivers be sure to tell them.
I know a girl who crossed a road when the lights said cross, and was hit by a cyclist who jumped/ignored a red light. She ended up in hospital and now permanently uses crutches because of her injuries. The cyclist sued her for his injuries, claiming that she should have looked.
Maybe we should just take all the light sets away, it works , then peeps can be responsible for every wrong move. and it will happen when we are carbon neutral and getting random power cuts for hours at a time no lights then,
1 bag egg will ruin the omelette altogether, Same with 1 bad cyclist will give every cyclist a bad name, & causes hate from the public for all cyclists on the road. He is lucky that person didn't punch him or kick him off his bike, but good for him for standing up to the cyclist
A poor driver will be an idiot no matter which vehicle they use. I drive and cycle, (shocking isn’t it, a cyclist who owns a car), and i operate both modes of transport with same degree of care and attention. Following the law.
Took mine off my bike, all it did was cause aggression, walkers/ramblers tend to spin around and try to smash you with their walking sticks or simply block your path deliberately. Replaced it with one from a dog collar, which makes a constantly noise.
@@Strider9655 I suspect, based on my experience, that lycra clad cyclists see the bell, as some motorists do the horn, as a instrument of aggression "ring ring RING RING RING = get the hell out of my way not a single I'm here ring.
@Nigel Buckham Well it's the stereotype that the cycling community has cultured - Lycra seems to indicate" I'm a real sports cyclist out for adventure" as opposed to an individual in jeans, skirt (lets say everyday clothing) who is using their bike as a means of travel and they have no desire to speed around annoying every one in their path.
On Saturday just gone, I was on a Zebra crossing and had to jump back for a cyclist. When I yelled, in fright, the cyclist stopped - not to apologise, but to give me a load of abuse for "getting in his way", and to call me "stupid dumb b!tch". A real charmer this one! For context, I was three quarters the way across too and hadn't just stepped out in front of him, when he rode through.
I may be mistaken, but I'm sure that clip was on TH-cam before the Highway Code changes. That in no way excuses the cyclists action, who deserves to be prosecuted, (good on the pedestrian for preventing the cyclist carrying on). As for Ashley's video, it's a double edged issue. Ashley is quite right to beep his horn to let the cyclists know he is there. However the cyclists were probably aware, he had followed them for a while. The use of the horn could be interpreted as aggressive, as is often the case. I watch Ashley's channel and he has improved my driving and cycling skills.
I love cycling on a warm summer evening , not so much for commuting. I don't wear ear buds so I can listen out and be aware of what's around me and basically work on the principle of sharing but I still get the odd driver giving me grief :( considering I have a motorbike and a car I definitely pay enough road tax to also ride my push bike on them
I follow Ashley and for me the cyclist should have gone to single file. For what I’ve read when approached buy faster traffic should move to inside to let them passed, this is also a case of cyclists doing what they like and giving all cyclists a bad name.
Wrong. It's actually better if they ride two abreast. Simple reason being that even if you overtake a single bike with the distance you have to keep you have to move into the opposing line anyway. So you might as well fully move over to the other lane when overtaking. However, if the cyclists ride two abreast the length you need to overtake is more than halved compared to when they go single file. Or in other words, overtaking two cyclists riding two abreast is much quicker than overtaking two cyclists riding single file.
@@ArminGrewe No, the new highway code rules don't support this argument. On a narrow road such as the one is Ashley's video, it is physically impossible to give 1.5m of space from the cyclist cycling closest to the centre of the road, which is the recommended distance when below 30mph. So, you should not overtake the 2 abreast cyclists at more than 30mph. If they were single file, you could give more than 1.5m of space and therefore the highway code says you can overtake above 30mph. So what is faster, overtaking 2 abreast at below 30mph, or overtaking 2 in single file at, say, 50mph?
@@adamspencer95 The road is ~6m wide. The outer cyclist is 1m from the centreline. Ashley thus has something like 4m to use. He is overtaking at about 25mph and he can give 1.5m of space comfortably. 2m is pushing it, which is what he (erroneously - read rule 163 carefully) believes he needs. Here's a very simple question to ask in order to know if there's room to overtake - do the cyclists go to single file when faced with oncoming traffic? If they don't, that's because they judge they have enough room on their side of the road (and they will be much better at judging this than you). Provided you use the full lane to overtake (and your vehicle is of a similar width), you'll also give them enough room. It's actually pretty simple when you think about it.
@@ArminGrewe your opinion HC says to move over when approached by faster vehicles and only to ride in centre in slow moving traffic, as we’re giving opinion mine is gross stupidity with changes and the people at most risk should take the most care against anything that can cause them harm. As a pedestrian I always give way to everything that can cause me injury.
Once the lycra goes on, out goes the brain cell. As regards Ashley's use of the horn to warn the cyclists, that was perfectly correct. The horn is a warning to alert someone of your presence, and I was taught to use it when I had my driving lessons.
@@nigelbuckham6417 Just noticed your reply, (a year later), but I used to commute on a bike for several years, also going for bike rides into the countryside from the city and never once felt the need to wear lycra. As for golf, I wouldn't play that anyway as my sporting interests lie elsewhere.
After more than a decade of driving, I finally read the Highway Code and realised the horn is meant only for emergencies or to alert others of my presence. It's so hard not to use it to vent frustration when someone makes a mistake on the road! Anyone else struggle with this?
A "Hello, I am here" toot is fine. As a cyclist (not by choice but because I lost my licence due to medical issues), a "get outta my way" blast really pisses me off, because I have as much right to be there as the car does. What also pisses me off, is when a car tries to force its way past me while I am overtaking parked cars, leaving me literally just a few cm of space between it and the parked cars. If you are in that much of a hurry that you can't wait 20 or 30 seconds for me to clear the parked cars, then start your journey earlier, ffs.
Even drivers get confused with new rules. Yesterday, the traffic light changed to green. Two cars passed, then the next stopped to let pedestrians cross.
Hi Dan. Thanks for increasing the reach on this subject as it's important. The safety of cyclists when they are overtaken should never be compromised, and one of the criticisms that was aimed at me was I "tooted" at the cyclists when in fact I "tooted" for them. Misunderstanding of the rules in the highway code I widespread so your expertise in clarifying these rules is invaluable. While we are on the subject of cycling, I would appreciate your input one of my videos scheduled for next Thursday if you could check it out. Keep up the great content!
Most welcome - and likewise, your videos are a credit to TH-cam and society in general. Even before watching the video in question, I doubted you would have been in the wrong, and was disappointed at the criticism. It was a "textbook" toot and - as you say - _for them_ not _at them_ ... I'm surprised how many people don't realise how helpful this is for maintaining safe roads! Happy to link up with your next video(s) [ contact@blackbeltbarrister.com ] and get you pushed over that exciting 100K threshold, which is JUST around the corner! Congrats in advance!
PS I was further disappointed to read in the comments that the police didn't take your carpark dent seriously - breach of s170 RTA 1988, video coming in the next 5 mins...
th-cam.com/video/AYII4JRJSvM/w-d-xo.html
I'm surprised it's actually being debated. Whoever argued to the contrary should be prosecuted for spreading false information as it is clearly a safety issue and sounding that horn correctly actually saves peoples lives.
I think the main problem is that too many drivers only ever use their horn as a form of rebuke to other road users. As a consequence, people do tend to hear it and think "was that aimed at me? What am I doing wrong?"
What you were doing was not much different to a cyclist about to pass a pedestrian on a shared path or bridleway. For me, the message is "I am about to pass you, don't be alarmed, you can just proceed in the same direction at the same speed as you are."
As a motorist, cyclist, and motorcyclist I can assure you that I can tell the difference between a ‘toot’ to let me know you are there/about to pass and the full on blast of the horn we often get for no apparent reason……. I never use my bell when approaching horses as it seems to startle them whereas they are used to the human voice and aren’t threatened by it.
I should also state that I don’t jump red lights or ride through crossings either-I am certainly a long way from perfect but I try not to inconvenience other road users as far as possible.
100% correct. The only time you don't do this is when you pass horses!
Yep - I don't even ring my [cycle] bell when about to pass a horse rider - I just say in a normal volume: "coming up on your right" to the rider, in case they hadn't heard my approach.
Or cows, ‘cos they have their own horns!
@@frankhooper7871 I have passed horses on occasion and have been thanked for slowing down by the riders because I remember PSA ads that say horses could be spooked by cars travelling at high speed. Cyclists and those battery powered scooters however in many occasions are just as dangerous as those car drivers who feel entitled or impatiant.
Me too. Not only for safety reasons, but I don't like to startle the riders whilst they are on their mobile phones. What is with mobile phones? Yesterday I saw a young child, probably no more than ten, hurtling through our estate on a "push" scooter in the middle of the road. Steering one handed, mobile phone pressed to its ear, chatting away furiously as this feat of dexterity flashed past. However, the kids around here with the e-scooters and e-gokarts are an even greater hazard, to themselves and others. Also, don't get me started on the maniacs driving their mobility chariots at F1 speeds on the pavements!
Rant over. 🧐 😀
@@simonbutterfield4860 Absolutely! Horses can easily get spooked. A friend of mine once had a horse jump on his car because of some idiot boy-racer sounding the horn behind the rider. PS: A couple of years back I was riding with a group of fellow motorcyclists and we all pulled into the side and shut off our engines, much to the relief and gratitude of the approaching horse riders. Good manners cost nothing, especially when safety is involved. Anyway, well done you! United we stand! PPS: Since the implementation of the new highway code I am loath to get on my bicycle. I’ll let the hatred and skirmishes settle down before I venture out!
In addition (I don't know for certain) Ashley may have been driving his electric car and wind noise may have prevented the cylists from hearing that there was a car behind them. The use of the horn seems totally justified in this example.
It maybe surprising to know but some of us do ride with rear facing radars. Such as Garmin Varia range of radars. We can know when a vehicle is behind us without looking back. It is a good idea to acknowledge then by looking back and making eye contact tho so they know you know they are there. I certainly wouldnt of had a problem with the toot of the horn as I know what the horn is meant for in the highway code.
@@grahamjones6712 so many cyclists seem to spend money on things like radar ,carbonfibre frames etc etc while most don,t even have roadworthy bikes - many shown on TH-cams do not conform to the use and construction regulations for cycles. If they were motor vehicles they would be checked regularly and stopped and fined if they do not follow the law. Cyclists unfortunately have no such system in force - any many expensive bikes have been modified so they don't conform to the law anymore( that's if they did in the first place).
The current tendency is to emulate the tour de france by using racing bikes , going as fast as possible through traffic , and riding if only they matter and they are the king of the road.
@@winnie6354 + with no bell
@@winnie6354 Any details on what makes these bike unroadworthy/illegal and what modifications that people are making that does that?
Mechanical propulsion vs human propulsion are two completely different things you cant compare, as such bicycles are 1. lights and reflectors after sunset and 2. "efficient" barkes on both wheels - thats the regulations.
When cyclist brake the law there are fines and court just the same as any other road user, except those freeloading pedestrians running through crossings in expensive running shoes like they are racing Ussain Bolt or exempt from the rules of the road like they are a BMW or Mercedes (-Joke-)
@@andyp315 no rear reflectors , pedals don't have the required reflectors , no bell/horn . No lights when bikes used at night / in bad weather. To name a few .
Absolutely agree the taxi driver and the cyclist were completely in the wrong! I am a cyclist and use my bike for commuting to and from work. It makes me really angry when I see this sort of behaviour because quite often if a cyclist is killed/injured after doing something like this most people blame the drivers which is often not fair.
Also Ashley's use of the horn was in no way excessive and certainly not used as a rebuke.
I don't agree with your comment about the taxi . there was no pedestrian actual on the crossing when the taxi approached. The trouble is pedestrians take no responsibility for themselves. they should wait until a vehicle stops. not just walk then expect it to stop. The bicycle is in the wrong because the crossing was being used....
@@brianperry Pedestrians were crossing and on the middle island therefore the taxi must stop and wait. HWC rule 195-you MUST give way when a pedestrian has moved onto a crossing (also) be aware of pedestrians approaching from the side of the crossing.
According to a Westminster council study, two thirds (68%) of collisions between cars & bikes in central London were the fault of the driver. So it is fair to blame the driver in the vast majority of cases. As for cyclist/pedestrian collisions, 60% were attributable to the pedestrian. Only 8% of incidents were down to a cyclists ignoring a red light.
Virtually all road deaths involve a motor vehicle.
@@a.speers1365 as I said pedestrians take no responsibility, just keep walking and hope. Now the hwc has given them charters to blame everybody but themselves…
@@brianperry There's another taxi on the opposite side of the road that enters the crossing on that side whilst pedestrians are still using it
I’m a cyclist and if someone tooted like that at me just before passing I’d take it as a polite warning. Whilst it’s legal to ride two abreast, it would also be courteous and safer to go single file when hearing a vehicle approaching from behind
If you watch all of Ashley's video he points out the problem that by riding two a breast is it can makes it hard for a driver to pass giving the specified room on a narrow road, indeed this is the point of the video and makes me wonder if Ashley spent hours looking for this or if it was set up. Personally in the same circumstance I would 'single out' and let the car go out of curtesy and because being followed by a car isn't relaxing. Though again if you watch Ashley's video he says that he would not have passed earlier regardless because it wasn't safe, so from his perspective the only issue was that he had to pass too close rider on the outside because they were two abreast.
Whether it is safer depends on the circumstances. In this clip there was no safety reason for the riders to continue to ride two abreast, but in some circumstances riding like this may be safer and this is the point of the rule changes. It tells riders and drivers that riding two abreast is allowed (it always was) and that it may be safer for riders to do so.
Your type of cyclists are few and fair between. I 100% agree cyclists need to be given space when passing but at the same time as you say they also need to help others
@@andycole6982 Riding two abreast is permitted , but only where safe and not inconveniencing others ; cyclists simply cannot do it wherever and whenever they please and to hell with everyone else ; if the road is narrow , or you are obstructing faster traffic then you are required to drop into single file . Charges of ether careless cycling or obstructing the highway are available .
Totally agree, but just remember that as a group if you are riding in a single line as our group does motorists will often overtake you and disregard the passing distance, it’s all about using common sense which we all know a good deal of impatient motorists don’t have.
@@derekheeps8012 The actual wording of rule 66 of the highway code is "be considerate of the needs of other road users when riding in groups. You can ride two abreast and it can be safer to do so, particularly in larger groups or when accompanying children or less experienced riders. Be aware of drivers behind you and allow them to overtake (for example, by moving into single file or stopping) when you feel it is safe to let them do so" so the emphasis is going to single file when safe. I often ride with my 10 year old on the roads, and for the most part I will ride two abreast, as I think this is safer for him and in the built up areas that I live it is often difficult to find sections where I consider it safe to go to single file. The requirement to drop to single file is only when it is safe, not whether your are obstructing faster traffic, but to also be considerate.
- Taxi driver commits an offence.
(I stand corrected: Crossing is divided, so first taxi seems in the clear. The second taxi, coming from the other side, proceeds whilst a pedestrian was still on the crossing, so commits an offence.)
- Cyclist commits an offence.
- Driver passing cyclists shows correct use of the horn!
Pedestrian crossing almost creates a fight with cyclist. 😂
The crossing seen on the clip is clearly split into 2 separate crossings by way of the road layout/Markings and when the taxi drove thru,the crossing on His side of the road, it was clear..... Not Guilty,, Your Honour.?
@@maczaknjak2098 Possibly depends what mood the Judge is in. What I would say is he did not appear to slow down that much to take into account that any pedestrian may suddenly change direction 180 degrees and run back across the road?
@@maczaknjak2098 exactly what I was about to say.
@@PUBLICSECTORJOBSWORTHS This happened to me once when I was driving, although not on a crossing, but a main road. A drunk (I assumed as had can of bear in one hand) was crossing the road decided to turn back half way and then turned back again in his original direction. I had assessed his movement but did not anticipate him turning back to continue in his original direction. We all make assumptions about the future movements of cars and pedestrians and sometimes we're wrong. I hit him and also hit and smashed my windscreen. He layed in the road and I was in shock. Always best to drive slow when there are pedestrians about.
Being a cyclist who's never worn lycra... I tend to follow the rules and are considerate to others commuting on (or crossing) the road.
What's more... my bike isn't stolen, so I never drive on the pavement & I always use proper safety equipment (helmet, lights) and signal my intent to others.
As another cyclists, I'll just add that I don't _always_ signal, due to the abysmal state of many of our roads where taking one hand off the handlebar can often be more dangerous than failing to signal.
i can assure you that being on the pavement isn't a sign of a stolen bike 😂
wish it were always possible to signal intent, most often needing to keep both hands on the bars just in case someone does something stupid/erratic and I need to hit the brakes. lycra is a pretty irrelevant factor in the equation, most people I find breaking the rules where I live are people in everyday clothes 🤷♂️
Agreed. If I wear any lycra it is because it is bright, partially reflective, and comfortable when I would otherwise be getting hot, sweaty and not very pleasant to be near. :) If people think I look stupid in lycra, that is their problem. Due to it's visibility, at least I am still alive for them to be able to think it.
Not sure about the relevance of the Lycra, but it's good to hear that you demonstrate consideration for others, I also do, perhaps it's because I also don't ware Lycra 😉
@@grahambonner508 I only mentioned lycra since it was brought up earlier in this thread, but either way, good to know you also take due care.
When I ride on the country roads near my home I always try and get to a point where if safe I wave cars through. This little act has resulted in waves of thanks from the majority of motorists. It is what you would do if you were in a slow moving car after all. Just a little act that I hope helps reduce the annoyance felt by drivers of arrogant cyclists like in your video.
“we still see scenes like this one”. Video of a pedestrian stopping the cyclist is much older than the consultation and new guidance on priority. In fact it is from 2016. Still a good example of poor road use, but you should acknowledge that this is not a new incident. The original even has date time information recorded on it that has been cropped from this version.
Let's not be pedantic , but the law in 2016 was the same - you have to stop if there are pedestrians on the crossing.
While the video may be 2016 "incidents "like this are not a thing of the past with the new legislation . Cyclists are still regularly seen cycling through pedestrians on crossings.Why do they do it ? Because they believe they are above the law - but are committing a criminal offence all the same.
It could be argued they are using their bicycle as a weapon- that would be the view if a motor car/van/lorry did the same.
@@winnie6354 if these things are still happening, then it should not be hard to find evidence of such.
This video is not evidence of these things still happening and neither are anecdotal comments.
I find it insightful that outrage for the taxi driver and cyclist are not equal even though both committed the exact same offence.
Statically motorists break more laws than cyclists and kill vastly more people and children in our communities, but the outrage is not evident.
@@kidkarbon4775 the taxi and cyclists are not the same - when the taxi passes there is no one on the crossing .
When the cyclists pass there are pedestrians walking across the crossing.
@@winnie6354 I appreciate differing views exist with regards to this particular footage, but it's right that it condemned.
Whatever your view, this footage would not stand up in court as evidence of things still happening.
As such it is only correct to ask for evidence as hearsay, speculation, and opinion is not fact.
@@winnie6354 Hence it is high time cyclists had to be registered and wear a hi viz tabard displaying their registration marks across their backs ; being made traceable and accountable would stop a lot of poor cycling overnight since many of them ignore the law because they feel they will never be caught .
I'm a cyclist and have no problem with Ashley's use of the horn, though I do find it difficult with my car to get the merest 'toot' out of the horn. I do have an issue with _anyone,_ cyclist or otherwise, who goes through zebra crossings with pedestrians on them, and thought it was brilliant and hilarious the way that bloke stood up to the git on the bike. The same goes for jumping red lights - it's illegal and of course, dangerous; no-one should be doing it.
funny, but the pedestrian put themselves at risk by backing up into and getting right up in the guys face. we already knew the cyclist is an arse for trying to cut right behind crossing pedestrians, it wouldn't be a shock to see them get physical and defensive for being confronted about it.
@@rboydphotography also there is no excuse for physical assault, which is what the pedestrian has done to the cyclist by man-handling them. I understand why people believe it is justified, and the cyclist is 100% in the wrong, but 2 wrongs do not make a right.
@Pattoe The pedestrian doesn't touch the cyclist - simply obstructs him. However the cyclist does appear to hit out at the pedestrian.
@@Pattoe Not assault ; the pedestrian had every right to apprehend the cyclist and even place him under citizens arrest ; with the video evidence he could have been charged with dangerous cycling .
I ride too and agree
Fair points all. - The timing of the "Horn Warning" was spot on - early enough to allow the driver to react in the event that the cyclist(s) were spooked - short enough not to intimidate.
A driver should not spook a cyclist. What about tooting when passing a horse and rider or pedestrian walking in the road when there is no pavement? After all you are just letting them know you are there! In relation to the cyclist, Ash was too close to toot as a warning of his presence.
@@radishpea6615 Not relevant examples really. A Horse is not aware in the same manner as a human as to cars and the sounds. And people walking on the side of the road would be far enough away from the vehicle that it wouldn't be an issue.
@@davidlewis8899 Really? wow! horse pedestrian and cyclist can all be
spooked but the result may be different. Why would a pedestrian in the road be any further from a vehicle then a cyclist? How puts them further away?
@@radishpea6615
Pedestrians generally take up less space on a road than Cyclists because they're less vulnerable to indentations on the road and are therefore less likely to swerve or wobble.
Additionally Cylists tend to cycle two abreast and because they then have to keep out farther from each other than two Pedestrians would , take up as much road space as a car.
@@elliegreen4738 and yet traffic can still pass too closely to pedestrians. I am still to see a sensible reason for hooting a cyclist when you do not hoot to overtake anything else. The reason given to hoot, is to make them aware, so why not make everyone else aware?
Yep I’m with you, it wasn’t a toot in anger (like so many people seemed to be assuming… evidently they only use theirs for that purpose) but an awareness toot to say “don’t jump in shock as I go past if you haven’t noticed me”… as Ashley has recently moved into an electric car this is potentially even more important as there will be less “noise” from the car itself
i would BLAST them 12 times.. cyclists are horrible nasty self entitled a-holes
@@esecallum You missed the word "some" from that last part.
A lot of car drivers are that too
Thats probably why you'll always be a spotty virgin.
@@esecallum Wow you're so cool
It used to be that you Had to sound your horn when approaching blind bends.
As for impatient taxi-drivers and reckless cyclists, as with e-scooters, nothing will change unless the police step away from their pcs and get active...
"It used to be that you Had to sound your horn when approaching blind bends" - I still do, and narrow hump backed bridges.
@@mrrcassidy same here.
Ashley's use of the horn was perfectly fine and would be appreciated by me as a cyclist.
The issue is simply that too many people use the horn in anger ( not me ) and it puts a cyclist on edge whenever a horn is used near them.
Completely agree with all you said Daniel, this is the "It's all about me" culture striking again.
I ride on a shared footpath and cycle way and if approaching pedestrians from behind I give a little ring because it can be alarming to have a bike which you were not aware of pass you, also there is no guarantee that dog walkers will hold their line. I think that bicycle bells should be required but I haven't checked the Highway Code.
good stuff, when i hear that bell i immediately drag my 130kgs of dogs into the verge to allow you to pass unhindered. Manners man. Have a good day out.
@@BusbyTreeSurgery It isn’t always sweetness and light I take the rough with the smooth. Once a group of ladies with dogs were standing having a chat, they saw me coming but didn’t move then one of them remonstrated with me for passing too close and too fast. I told them off because after all, I was using the way they had judged to be sufficient.
"Be aware of drivers behind you and allow them to overtake " taken from Highway Code for cyclists.
I often stop for trucks, cars or farm tractors to allow them past on my bike, I just wish other cyclists would observe this rule.
Agreed. Pulling into a gap between parked cars where traffic is light to let a following motorist past or saying "good morning" as you pass pedestrians on shared paths on an early morning commute are simple things that can help to dispel the "lycra lout" image that society often has of cyclists. I also operate a policy of not getting involved in aggro, both when cycling and when driving, even in the face of provocation. People should be fined for breach of the peace for using their horns as a rebuke.
Now, majority of the time I despise cyclists... But this is a prime example of taring all with the same brush. Thanks!
As a HGV driver often on single carriageway NSL I encounter a lot of cyclists. Overtaking is almost impossible due to the sheer length and the fact I can hardly accelerate, plus I like to give plenty of room and straddle both lanes..
With a huge tailback, and me doing 20mph I've seen some very dangerous manouvers out of desperation and frustration.. I'm not saying cars own the road, and you must move out of the way.. But when you're doing a third of the speed limit and you know there's been someone behind you for a good 5 minutes.
I'll even indicate left and let off the throttle when the road ahead is clear to let cars behind me pass just so people can get on with their days and do their stuff...its not hard to be courteous as you've said and do actually do, so yes. Thanks again
@@Svyp3r Yeah, it doesn't mean go off in a ditch. It means slow down and move over to LET faster moving traffic overtake.
For arguments sake, a solid white line shouldn't be crossed.... but can be crossed to overtake a cyclist. If rules can be broken to overtake cyclists, then they should "allow them to overtake" like the Highway Code states.
@@Svyp3r This is the same Highway code that applies to all road users, so if it doesn't apply to cyclists, it doesn't apply to other road users either by your thinking
@@Svyp3r highway code section 6 - 129
Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26
It's rather ironic really, the issue stems from people's misinformed and false notion for the usage of the horn. As you stated BBB. When you understand that the horn isn't a tool for venting anger, the confusion goes away!
Except many motorist will/do use their horn in anger. Often accompanied with hand gestures.
Their is a good chance if you beep your horn whilst overtaking a cyclist it might be misunderstood.
@@kevinprice4005 Which is exactly why the clarification needs explaining and the misinformation - again what BBB stated. People need to stop with the excuses (in general). We've all got driving wrong to some degree.
How many time have we seen in videos where the camera car driver lays on his horn, then gets a reaction from the other vehicle. When all the CCD needed to do was slow a little, yes the driver may have been in the right but is it worth a confrontation. Defensive driving comes to mind as taught on The Advance Driver Course.
@@TheByard What point are you trying to make though?
@@thewaywardgrape3838 A toot given as a warning seldom gets a bad reaction, where as laying on the horn to chastise some one often does.
Having just spent a few days in London have to say this seems to be the norm. Red light jumping, not stopping at crossings crossings and riding on footways - all perfectly if you are cycling. Ok it seems in London. My observation was that the Police Officers were just ignoring it.
I was taught to beep the horn on my motorbike as I was about to over take a car to let them know my intentions.I noticed when I ride my bicycle on shared cycle padestrian path, If I ring my bell I get scowled at but if I use my voice I get a better reaction. People can be funny.
Exactly. A horn elicits the same reaction among recipients (whether they be other motor vehicles or cyclists) as a bicycle bell does amongst pedestrians. I rarely use my bell because it angers people. It easier just to say 'excuse me' or 'cyclist behind you' than to use a bell. The only time when you MUST make a lot of noise is behind horses. Horses are hard-wired not to like stealthy silent things and are freaked out by quite bicycles in the say way they are freaked out by big cats. When approaching a horse it is best to make your approach loud so that the horse and rider know you're approaching.
@@horsenuts1831 I didn't know that about horses. Next time I shall sing when I'm some way back. Good one. 🐴
When I trained to become an advanced motorcyclist , was told off for indicating for a car I was about to overtake as it was pointless as no reason for him to move onto opposite side of the road as no hazards ahead or right turn. If I tooted my horn , I would have been told off aswell as no reason for it.
It is also very much common practice on the continent .
I was a Police advanced driver. On both my basic advanced and refresher we were absolutely expected to give a very short toot on the horn (audible warning instrument in legalese) just to let people like this cyclist and for example pedestrians standing on a kerb perhaps on their phones or otherwise distracted and looked as if they may step out in front of you that you were there. Ashley gave his at just the right moment and in good time and certainly not with a long and offensive blast. I would support what Ashley did and his awareness of a vulnerable road user to make them politely and gently aware of his presence. Agree entirely with others regarding not appropriate for livestock. Retired now and so do not know if this still taught on the basic or advanced courses perhaps someone serving if they view this could enlighten us with the current thinking.
I totally agree. I too was taught in a similar way using "Roadcraft" but NHS Ambulance Service not police. Feature 5 if my memory serves me right. I too am retired so would also be interested to know if this is still taught.
And when I did my advanced training some years back this was something as a cyclist I very much objected to. Either it's safe to pass and you've acknowledged al the hazards, are travelling at a speed you can stop well within the distance you can see to be clear and have given a safety buffer for the cyclists (or other vulnerable road user) such that you can stop or deviate IF they have to change direction suddenly.
you wouldn't sound your horn passing an equestrian so why would you do it passing people on cycles when this can make them jump/feel alarm or even feel fear?
This insistanc on sounding your horn is really poor from a safety point of view and it does not increase the safety of those vulnerable parties.
If pedestrians are on their phone, maybe you should slow down such that you can account for them stepping off, sounding your horn just shouts get out the way, after all they have a lwful right to be there, you in your motorvehicle have no rights to be there whatsoever, you are there by privelege of licence alone.
I was taught this on the non police Advanced Driving Course by a Gloucester Police Advanced Driver, back in the 1970s. I taught him to mono water ski, but he got wetter than me.
@@ynotnilknarf39 you weren't much of an advanced driver if you don't understand or appreciate the use of the horn or you got 'annoyed' at people who used it. Feature 5 in roadcraft.
@@ynotnilknarf39 l think he sounded his horn BEFORE overtaking not whilst overtaking
I agree with the use of the horn. I do, however think. Motor vehicles should be fitted with a two tier horn. First tier a lot quieter and less aggressive sounding for that exact situation. Second tier a lot louder for emergencies.
That's a really good idea, it'll never happen.
Citroen used to have "town and country" horns fitted to the CX. Press the horn button a bit and you got the "toot toot", press it a harder and a Masseratie two tone air horn would let rip.
If the first horn didn't get your attention, the second one most certainly did.
Years ago that very suggestion was the case. There were a so called "Town" and a "Country" horn. A good idea fallen by the wayside.
Surely this already exists. Short quiet blast like Ashley used and a long loud blast.
a feelings horn, more for the driver to learn and execute for the feeling of others
I believe Ashley recently got an electric car, so without the sound of an approaching engine the quick toot of the horn is even more relevant.
he did not get the tesla add on extra extending arm to gently tap the cyclist on the shoulder and gently say hi there my car is about to attempt a pass manoeuvre , please try to keep in a straight line for the next few seconds, thanks.
Electric vehicles are much quieter than their internal combustion counter parts. I was coming out of a local coffee shop, about to turn a corner on foot and a Tesla moved in and I stepped back. Didn’t even hear him approach.
@@BostonBobby1961 That said, I note that due to huge improvements in efficiency internal combustion engines are much quieter now, including diesels (noise represents wasted energy) and I often cannot hear non electric vehicles.
@Advanced Driving They do now, at speeds less than 20 km/h, but older ones - such as my 2017 made hybrid, do not. That said, even lots of conventional petrol engined ones are so quite at low speed moves in car parks and the like, that those who don’t look won’t know you’re there.
A lot of electric cars are noisy whiney things , far noisier than my petrol car .
Mr BBB. I was under the impression that the central island splits the crossing into 2 separate zones, there is then, a safe space to pause to allow other vehicles to observe you. I've only been driving 40yrs - Help!
Correct ! they are treated as two separate crossings .
I think Ashleys brief toot of his horn was necessary to notify the cyclists of his prescence and intention to over take, especially as they seemed oblivious to the fact that he was indeed there at all.
I personally just don't see what the point of tooting is if the motorist's intention doesn't influence the cyclists current course of action. It's up to the cyclists to look & make sure the situation is ok before they perform any change of action (eg maneuvers) anyway. A lot of car horns are really loud & can make you jump when you're not expecting it which is not very pleasant. It's also the only means motorists generally have to audibly communicate something's wrong which means you then have to fully assess the situation to make sure you're not in immediate danger, which again, isn't fun.
As an aside & being a cyclist myself, it's frustrating to see other cyclists not singling out on busy roads. The only benefit it brings is to be able to have a chat but it holds up other motorists more, so they should save it it for quiet minor roads instead imo.
I've been tooted whilst riding my bike. I knew what it meant and so did the tooters. When they passed I put my hand up to say 'thank you' and on each occasion the responded.
I don't think I've actually seen a cyclist stop at a crossing ever in my town.
Have you ever seen a cyclist hit someone due to this though? No, you have not
It's perfectly safe when it's perfectly safe, like it was in the video until the pedestrian made it into an altercation
I believe the TV series was called "A look at life", Old B&W program, some available on TH-cam. One in particular raises this point. "Before overtaking give a short blast on your horn to let fellow road users know you are about to overtake".
there was an excellent episode on TH-cam with an IAM driver in a MkII Jaguar on the motorway and rather enthusiastic about his use of the horn : BLAAAARE , and again BLAAAARE !
A Look at Life was all in colour, and was made for cinemas. It must have been some other series.
Ashley was using the horn correctly, gentle toot to alert people to you being there. It should be noted he drives an electric car. The taxi and cyclist were breaking the “old” rules . We all need to behave better than that.
All modern cars are quiet, even petrol and diesel engines, since when you have your foot off the accelerator when still in gear and moving they cut off the fuel to make them more eco-friendly ( I know, a car is far from eco-friendly). If you take your foot off to slow down some distance away they will not hear you coming unless you toot to let them know that this is the case. On a narrow rural road where cars have to pass each other with their nearside wheels on the verge cyclists riding two abreast need advance warning to go into single file when they feel safe to do so. You cannot pass them at any speed if they are two abreast. This is a failing of the new rules where it should be considered if it should be mandatory for them to go single file or pull over where to do otherwise stops anyone from passing them from either direction. The new rules assume all roads are two lanes with a nice white line down the centre of them.
Electric cars are almost as loud as combustion engine cars above a certain speed because of tyre noise. The cyclists would have been well aware of his presence.
@@williamtopping Why do you say that they're not aware? I would love to know why you think that...
Excellent point regarding the electric cars, the issue nowadays is that people tend to use their horn in anger whereas it should always be an alert, especially when we're all driving electric cars.
@@JohnSmith-uf8qi Electric cars make the same amout of noise as any other car over above, about, 15mph because of the tyre noise.
As a cyclist, I thank (Ashley?) for looking out for those two cyclists safety. Wish we had more motorists taking care of cyclists especially young and inexperienced cyclists who are not as road aware.
I have been saying this for so long , 🤷🏾♂️I Don't know why people think the horn being tooted means disrespect or otherwise 🤔 .The horn is on vehicles to use to make people aware of your presence ...
We must Educate people about this because they seem to think its use to swear at someone and that's delusional 🙄..
Because it is almost always used in an offensive manner?
Flashing your headlights is another way of warning of you presence
@@robinwalmsley896 Not so sure about that, as you would need to be looking at the vehicle to be able to see the flashing.
The horn on the other hand, can be effective when the other road user can not be seen, for instance when approaching a sharp bend or from behind.
I would say however that a loud horn can be an issue not just for horses, but also cyclists who may swerve in response to it if startled.
@@robinwalmsley896 Be aware you can also get done for "inappropriate use of headlights", as happened to a mate of mine.
He flashed an oncoming beetle in his beetle, said bug was being followed by a plouce car, they ticketed him for the above offence.
When I toot politely to let another car user know of my approach they inevitably blast their own horn in an offensive way, usually accompanied by a non-regulation hand signal.
If someone passed me like Ashley passed that cyclist I would probably give a thumbs up in acknowledgment. Most road users are trying to get from A to B safely and with minimal hassle.
Where I live cyclists have taken to riding on the pavement at speed and nearly all jump red lights. It got to the point that the blind, partial sighted, disabled and elderly are terrified to step out of homes. The police refuse to do anything about it. Quite a few locals are talking about "making an example" of cyclists. This is not going to end well.
Piano wire🤔
Report them as drunk and verbalising racist remarks.
Leave reckless cyclists and E scooterists alone!
We need them as organ donors.
the blind, partial sighted, disabled and elderly are terrified........... kinell m8 where d'you live?? hospital villas, hospital street, hospitalsville.............??
@@loc4725 report them having a camera and filming police stations and kids
As a motorist and a cyclist it seems to me that some cyclists regard the road as their own private gym and have little regard for road safety.
I've been watching Ashley Neal's vids since I was learning a few years ago, passed my test, and kept on watching them to this day. Correct use of the horn is a kind of recurring theme on Ashley's channel.
That cyclist in the video was a BitOfAWanker, if that is his real name...
Before commenting: Yes - I know this is an old video, I said _"We still see scenes like this one"_ - which I do. Under current Rules, _"Drivers and riders should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross and MUST give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing."_ Although with common courtesy and sensible driving, this should always have been the case! My cousin was killed as a child on a crossing in a situation just like this one. In my view, the taxi should have stopped regardless the man was ON the crossing or not.
It is time you moderated some of these comments. I am being called by John Hartley above because I said no one pays road tax and they pay VED he is ranting and has gone as far as to call me a joke and is close to being abusive.
Glad to see two of my favourite TH-camrs collaborating and being friendly ;-) Talking about using horns / cycle bells (wish they were compulsory) - I was reminded of the time I was walking my dog over some meadows by a river. I had my dog on a fairly long lead at the time and suddenly became aware of a 'whish whish' noise behind me. Dogs are allowed to run freely here, btw. Just a few feet away was a cyclist approaching quite quickly. I just had time to grab my dog and stand to the side. "Sorry, Love," said the cyclist. "I didn't know whether to ring the bell in case it scared you." "Please do," was all I could retort.
why should a bell be compulsory, I find calling out much more friendly, ringing bells tends to upset some folk.
Fact, a horn on a motor bike is not required, as they can shout out loud.
I don't have a bell I always call out politely and have rarely had a problem. Reason is on the roads generally they are useless no one in a car will hear them, they are not loud enough. They can be awkward to get at due to also controlling the bike with the handlebars at the same time in many situations. On shared paths and country roads, I will call out in good time, not when I am on top of them, "Passing on your right/left" I then watch for the reaction before passing. My gob is louder than any bell and walkers don't always take notice of bells as they are miles away having a stroll. Speaking of dogs, I do notice many will walk the dogs way out in front on those long leads which is dangerous to cyclists if they don't see them or the dog wanders, people have been brought down with them. I believe that two metres is the limit they should be let out so I was told. Would have to investigate. It would help also if walkers on the roads walk on the right facing oncoming traffic, this way you need not worry about cyclist coming up behind you and oncoming cyclist will see you and you will see them, much safer.
As a cyclist in USA I agree with you on every point. I loved the pedestrian neatly challenging and getting in the way of the it’s-all-about-me cyclist. It almost looks choreographed.
To be fair to the taxi driver, the pedestrian had not stepped onto the crossing, which is what the rule says
I think that is what the rule used to say before the recent changes. Now there is a need to stop for someone waiting.
@@pdken3081 Not a need, a recommendation only.
"Should" means it's not an offense to ignore it.
Exactly right. That is the correct use of the audible warning instrument as described in the police drivers manual " Roadcraft"
When you use your horn to indicate your presence, try waving enthusiastically directly afterwards. It stops the offended/angry reaction and leaves the hootee wondering "who the hell's that?"
a and get done for their cam footage of you taking your hand off the wheel and uncontrollably trying to pass while looking at them. haha
Love that word',Hootee'!It rarely crops up in conversation!
@@BusbyTreeSurgery Trust me, that'll never happen! they'll be so puzzled they wouldn't even consider it! I've been doing it to cars threatening to pull out on me for years and I've seen the cogs turning while they try to work out who they know who rides a motorcycle. A cheery wave beats a middle finger.
@@eskertoo I think it rarely crops up in the English Language, either, but it should exist!
Well done that pedestrian on the crossing. He gave the cyclist something to remember.
Many people don't realise the horn on a car is a warning. Probably because when they use it, to them it means 'you bastard'.
This behaviour is normal in London and absolutely not normal in most places (outside of the big cities in the UK). It's worse for pedestrians when cars do it tbh. Culture in decline.
The actions of the pedestrian confronting the bad cyclist SHOULD become normal.
It happened to me, I was crossing with a green for pedestrians and red for road traffic, a cyclist ran into me in the middle of the crossing(jumping the red), this was in the Derbyshire Dales about 30 or 40 yrs ago. Normal in other places, been normal for a long time.
This behaviour is normal in London perhaps🙄 if cyclists had a number plate stuck on their back identifying them id assume alot of this NORMAL behaviour would stop due to fixed penalty fines dropping through their letter box
Sadly, number plates do not prevent a significant minority of car drivers from speeding, using mobile phones, driving without insurance, etc. On that basis alone, I do not think that number plates for cyclists are the answer. Many times we see cyclists doing stupid things, it is their own sense of self-preservation that appears to be lacking. Those that care for their own safety ride more cautiously anyway.
@@GodmanchesterGoblin You seem to forget that yes they do break the law with number plates but it means they can be traced.
It's entirely possible that the cyclists couldn't hear AN behind them - I've had it, even on mildly breezy days, where modern cars are pretty quite and it's not until they're right near you that you really hear them.
There is also the matter of electric cars, with the wind in there face and panting away would the cyclists hear them coming?
I can hear them before I see them in the mirrors. I will then work out where they will overtake , look for hazards and plan ahead. Cyclist are not as dumb and situationally ignorant as one might think
@@DemiGod.. not all of us are near diety, but well done you.
I'm surprised that more cyclists aren't injured. When driving in London, the majority of cyclists, appear to weave through traffic recklessly
I worked for a year in Trafalgar Square, I saw a lot of cyclists taken way by ambulance after a crash in that area. Two of them were lying on the stretcher not moving with no one trying to revive or communicate with them so I think they were dead
Only collisions with motor vehicles count when cycle stats are used I think :)
Yes, that's what I thought when I was sitting in endless queues in my car. It's also why I bought a bicycle. You are wrong about the majority of cyclists being reckless, most are highly vigilant regarding unobservant car drivers.
@@DavidFraser007 I'd argue that point. It is possible to be both vigilant and reckless. "I see that car, but they will try not hit me". When I can sit at traffic lights, and see not a single cyclist obey the rules, it is not really "a few".
Another aspect is, and this isn't personal, the attitude many cyclists seem to take when discussing "the few". It does make me think they take the same attitudes onto the roads and become part of those few.
I'm not so sure that cyclist wouldn't have been hurt had I'd been on that crossing.
I can't see how anyone could fault that overtaking procedure. As a cyclist, I wish all motorists were that careful of my safety.
There is many times on a single track road and a car passes safely and there is a following which also follows through. At times like this I would actually really appreciate a toot of the horn to let me know of there presence
Regardless of what you are riding you need to be aware of others on the road and respect the rule! It is sad that some idiots ruin it for the rest of the people. this cyclist clearly needs to face a judge and get the book thrown at them!
tooting the horn in that situation is no different from a cyclist ringing their handlebar bell - something that I'm grateful for when I'm out jogging on the local cycle trail and they're riding up behind me
You can almost guarantee pedestrians will turn around in any or multiple directions when you ring a bike bell. It rarely makes things safer than taking responsibility for not running in to them by adjusting your speed and position.
All bikes should have Bells but they don't.
If a cyclists slows down and rings their bell,I thank them.
If they speed past me ringing their bell I swear at them.
It’s not ideal to be jogging on a cycle trail. There are few places where cyclists can go safely away from both pedestrians and motorists, but a specified cycle trail should be one of them.
As a cyclist I think bells are a bit pointless as most people don't hear them anyway. I prefer either just doing a wide loop around pedestrians or just politely asking them if I can pass if that's not possible
@@edj4833 maybe if cyclists slowed down and rang their bells several times
Pedestrians would have time to react.
But most cyclists don't have bells.
Advanced driving technique. I was taught to make others aware of your presence decades ago and the hierarchy of vulnrability too. For instance. A quick toot before turning in makes the pedestrian turn around. A cyclist stationary at the roadside looks up and sees you. It may get a grumpy reaction from the ignorant few of the intention, but better that than... I'm using Ashley's content to show others driving technique. Thanks to both of you.
I don't know what car Ashley was driving at the time but I know he has a Tesla. Much quieter than a conventional car. Chances are the cyclists wouldn't have known he was there
Good point. Quiet electric cars are a problem awaiting a solution.
Any petrol car can approach by stealth .
Unless you are revving, tyre and airflow noise becomes dominant over about 30mph. EVs are not silent. I can clearly hear them, even in town at lower speeds.
What has the first clip got to do with the recent highway code changes, it's several years old now?
the first pedestrian was not actually on the crossing when the taxi passed through, but the cyclist was totally in the wrong, though if the stroppy guy hadn't stopped, the cyclist would have slipped through behind him. In my opinion, that's the big problem with many of us brits, to rigid adherence to rules and a disability to be flexible.
Yes CP, that's exactly what I was thinking. Surely when a crossing has a central refuge it has to be treated as two seperate crossings
I wouldn't say totally. As you say, he would have passed perfectly safely
I fail to see what was wrong
Very good post, as a cyclist for over 30 years (and still alive) it boils my pi$$ when I see other cyclists flouting the rules. This of course also applies to motorists. Bottom line is we are all road users and should abide by the rules and respect each other’s right to use it.
Earlier in the week a woman cyclist was killed when in collision with an HGV. No comment about that. Later there was a demonstration by cyclists to have the junction made safer. The BBC reporter was there and, while talking to an organiser, a cyclist rode behind them ONTHE PAVEMENT, followed shortly by another. Many of the collisions are caused by cyclists especially in the narrow streets of London. The death toll of them is horrendous, something like 9 in the last ten years!!!
9 that is nothing for such a high risk sport.
@@BusbyTreeSurgery Darwin is clearly not functioning correctly ! 🤣
@@barrieshepherd7694 they need to try harder .
Compared to 18000 killed by motor vehicles? Try to grow a brain Brian
Interesting I'd just finished reading the book for defensive driving here in NZ and one of the recommendations for overtaking cyclits is a brief toot on the horn. Also if you are riding in a cycle path and overtaking other cyclists the recommendation is to ring your bell to let them know you are behind them.
Just watched Ashley’s video, looks completely patient and reasonable
I know that zebra crossing and have used it many times as a pedestrian where that has often happened to me. In addition I have lost count of the number of times I have walked in London where the minority of cyclists have gone through pedestrian controlled red lights and jumped red lights at junctions where pedestrians have been crossing on the green man. Yes it’s a minority of cyclists but please let us all look after each other. Btw on the priority changes since the end of January, as a car driver ( as well as being a pedestrian and cyclist) every time I have tried to give way to pedestrians waiting to cross at a junction, none have crossed whilst I have waited for them.
I'm sure there used to be something out that when your going round a blind corner you could use your horn to make others aware you're there. I will say one thing, I feel a lot safer overtaking cyclist after they have acknowledge me IE looked and seen i was there.
I did that on my Advanced Driving test back in 1988. Basically because I read about it in an old version of Roadcraft. The examiner (a Police driving instructor) was impressed; he told me none of his other students ever did that.
@@R04drunner1 Thanks for that.
Ashley Neal on his driving channel often does this when approaching a narrow hump-back bridge with very poor visibility.
It was taught, when I learned to drive, to use the horn on blind bends, hump back bridges etc. but then cars had less soundproofing and few had blasting music so other drivers would he able to hear the horn of an oncoming car. Not like that these days. That said it did drive a friend of mine bonkers as he lived adjacent to a hump backed bridge. I find myself still tooting occasionally on some of the narrow twisting roads around Derbyshire - much to the amusement of any friend travelling with me!
When I was learning to drive a bus I was told to sound my horn when approaching blind bends, bridges and anywhere else where my sudden appearance would cause someone to either soil there pants or panic and crash!
Exactly the same happened to me yesterday when crossing a pelican crossing. Cyclist jumped the red, not a care in the world that we were there.
Time to introduce them to" Mr Shoulder",stumbles do occur!😉.
@Nigel Buckham Ah, you know me so well,----- oh hang on, you don't know me at all.🧐
The Vienna Road Convention dictates that the use of the horn can be extended to overtaking any road user to let them know you're about to do just that.
Therefore Ashley's actions were justified and the criticisms he faced are thus disparaged.
NB - and upon me just researching the Vienna convention for road traffic I can confirm that the provisions of it are in effect in the UK and that our own highway code rule system closely mirrors it.
The Geneva Convention says you can shoot a cyclist if they're wearing lycra in a built up area.
And if he were driving an electric vehicle, it would have been even more important to signal his presence.
Due to fatalities other developed countries actually also list it as a rule of the road. You can be prosecuted if you don't sound the horn.
Hi a quick legal question Alex Belfield is asking people to boycott Smirnoff Vodka because he believes it’s made in Russia but it made in Britain can he be sued by Smirnoff
Cyclists like that one at the crossing me think that cycle number-plates are a good idea. It could be a slot-in small number plate unique to each rider - you slot it into a holder on the back of the bike when you're going to ride it, remove it from the bike when you lock the bike up/leave it. That way you only need 1 number plate even if you use for-hire bikes: it's the person that the number plate is assigned to, not the bike.
There should be a serious fine for not having a number plate: let's say £500, and a more serious fine for using a false/borrowed/stolen number late, something like £5000.
That way BAD cyclists can be held to account: the way it is at present they can ride off into the wild blue yonder leaving any victims unlikely to positively I.D. them..
Ridiculous comment. Cyclists do not hurt people or cause damage like cars do. We need to ENCOURAGE cycling, not discourage it.
@@5manjaysan 537 pedestrians have been injured in and 69 killed by cyclists so no you are very much mistaken
@@stephenhill8790 Now the do the same for cars and tell me which are more dangerous
@@stephenhill8790 I'd love to know the source for your data. The best I've found is an article from 'The Week' in 2014 stating that: "One pedestrian was killed by a cyclist and 78 were seriously injured in 2012" [edited to add:] OK, ;I found another article from 'The Times' in 2018 stating: "More than 120 pedestrians were seriously hurt in collisions with bikes last year and three were killed"
@@frankhooper7871 Ok, so we can likely reduce injury to 79 people a year and potentially prosecute them so that the injured can get their medical bills paid get compensation. Why wouldn't we want to do that?
As a retired JP I fully agree with your submission. In this case the use of the horn was perfectly reasonable and beneficial to the cyclists who were probably unaware of his presence.
Particularly as the approaching vehicle was electric and therefore much quieter than a petrol/diesel car.
Thank you. I would have done the same!
They will have known he was there as even an electric car makes alot of road noise.
What annoyes me more than anything, is council's have spent hundreds of thousands of pounds putting in cycle lanes and duel use pavements to give cyclists a safe place to ride, away from traffic and they still insist on riding down the road right next to a cycle lane.
I had it is week, I drive a 44 ton lorry I do my utmost to give cyclist a wide berth when passing, well over the 1.5 mtrs required.
This cyclist wasn't even making any speed, I probably could of walked faster, he was on a 50 mph road cycling within 6 feet of a cycle path, it just beggers belife to be honest.
I will always use a cycle path when ones available, also, if there's a lorry behind me and I'm holding it up I will pull in where safe do so to let the lorry pass
Most cycle lanes are inadequate, often filled with rubbish that the same councils have failed to clean up, a cyclist is often more likely to have an accident riding there and end up falling in front of motor vehicles.
While I accept that YOU may give cyclists plenty of room there are far too many motorists who do not, should a cyclist take the chance that it is one of those approaching from the rear?
If the cycle lanes were maintained and not full of crap, slippy and dangerous to ride on, then I'd agree. But sadly, its safer to ride on the road
@@w1zardssleeve and those cycle paths that have parked cars on the inside so you have to ride on the road to avoid door openers
@@Markcain268 and drain covers waiting to get you! A myriad of potholes, stones, mud, leaves etc etc!
I am a retired traffic police officer , cyclist and motorist. As a motorist I always give a slight horn warning to cyclists where appropriate and as a cyclist I absolutely appreciate motorists who afford me this safety measure.
i am just a little bit surprised there is not even a mention of that pedestrian jumping in front of the cyclist and the dangerous situation he puts himself in
If the pedestrian had just kept walking the cyclist would have got through the gap without causing any issues
@@stephenpalfreyman4755 I agree and call hogwash on this clip. If you watch it closely, the pedestrian turns a full 180 degrees and initiates physical contact with the cyclist. While the cyclist definitely should have stopped further back at the beginning of the crosswalk, the pedestrian is in effect assaulting the cyclist. Apparently the pedestrian thinks he is an undercover constable enforcing the law, he should have simply stopped said something to the cyclist. You can't go around bashing into others when you believe they have violated a law, whether you are in your car or not.
I quite agree with all you have said and I do watch Ash, as a driver, a cyclist and a trail walker the thing that makes me really ANGRY!!! is when walkig I get no warning of cyclists coming up behind me because 99% dont have a BELL.
I watch Ashley's videos, great youtuber and great driving advice, I commented on one of his videos about your video talking about blind people and the change to the highway code.
I am a cyclist of some 50 yrs. The modern motorcar is very quiet and also cyclist get wind rush in their ears, due to this many times I turn to look behind as I think there is a car there to find there is not its the wind rush. A little toot on the horn often helps we don't always know you are there. You will find most Cycling club groups will move over to allow passing as soon as it is safe to do so. In my club we do this often, and if it is a really a well disciplined club they will have a backmarker man/.woman that will shout car up when there is one behind and this is reiterated up the pack so they can expect a passing.
Tooting the horn sounds reasonable under the circumstances. The motorist shouldn't be censured for doing so.
But I would never sound the horn myself as it's not really necessary. If you're gonna overtake just do so leaving plenty of room.
And that's fine provided the cyclists are aware of your position and actions. There are "ninja" cyclists (often wearing black, no lights, probably have earphones in) that sometimes pull across the oncoming lane (because there's nothing coming) without bothering to look behind. I have cycled into them on a couple of occasions when just overtaking them at around 15mph. So whether the horn is necessary may depend on whether you believe the cyclist to be aware of your location and probable intent.
@@GodmanchesterGoblin you're obviously exercising great care.
From my experience of Cambridge, a lot of cyclists are quite reckless and I'd be as careful as you are.
My police driver training, we used the horn for two reasons only, bearing in mind its official name is an "audible warning of approach. Firstly, a "greeting" toot as Ashley did, to let another road user know he was there, and secondly, an "area warning," which is a long blast on the horn when approaching a blind bend on a county road, for example. Also used simply to alert others that you are there. What Ashley did was perfectly legal.
Absolutely perfect use of a horn warning.
Totally textbook!
I used to live in Sweden and it was policy to give a brief toot of the horn before overtaking anyone, purely to let them know that you were there.
It has to be acknowledged that you could drive there for a couple of hours without seeing another vehicle so it was a useful reminder for anyone who had been unaware thet you were encroaching and about to pass them.
Yes , as it is on most of the continent : I have driven in Holland , Germany , Denmark , Austria , Switzerland and Italy , good horn use in all those countries , although in Rome , if there is a hold up you can hear some enthusiastic horn use !
Sweden sounds a bit like here in Scotland : I can leave Inverness and take the A82 down through Fort William and back to Dumbarton of an evening and hardly see any other vehicles ; great drive with the top down , but watch for sheep !
Did the Taxi driver actually break the law.? I believe not - although for good manners, best practice and safety, I would stop.
One of the Three 'Random' Highway-Code questions I had at the end of my Driving test (long before Theory Tests) was:
"When is a pedestrian crossing treated as two crossings?". The given and accepted answer was "When there is an Island or Central Reservation"
The pedestrians in the video appeared to all be on the opposite side crossing deck or the island, not on the deck the taxi crossed.
Old rules state taxi driver "should" stop
Hi Black Belt barrister, I clicked to watch this video because the caption mentions Ashley Neal a U-tubing driving instructor who I much respect, I also agree that you are correct about the appropriate use of the horn, the thing I was watching most closely was the timing, since the sound of a horn might startle the cyclists it is very important that the car driver allows enough space and time to respond to any sudden reaction from the riders. In this case I was well satisfied. In many similar situations when a car has come from behind and tooted too loudly too close I will brake as hard as I can to respond to the implied hazard, if this causes the car driver to brake even harder then that is on them!, I only do this sort of thing when the road ahead is perfectly clear and there is no good reason for the hooter!.
The other problem with city traffic is much as you say, however there is never any excuse for any road users to express their frustration in a dangerous way, the pedestrian who intercepted the cyclist did so in a way that was not particularly dangerous or aggressive, making a good point very clearly without undue aggression, the taxi driver on the other hand was in flagrant breach of all decent behaviour and should have his taxi licence revoked, if for no better reason than that type of black cab is charging for their time on each journey not for the distance travelled, I can understand how many commercial delivery drivers find things difficult but the cure for that is to prohibit the payment per deliveries and insist on payment for time driving.
Ultimately all of this bad behaviour can only be controlled by having qualified patrolmen and women out there on the streets stopping and delaying people who break the rules, post offence punishment is little deterrent compared to being caught in the act!.
Cheers, Richard.
I do exactly the same - a quick 'pip' to warn the cyclists I'm coming up behind them (a lot of them have earphones of one sort or another in use, and cannot hear a darn thing except their 'music'.) As a p.s., I still have my old Cycling Proficency badge from the 1950/60's somewhere - it turns up now and then when I'm looking for someother small item.
Completely agree, during my commute in the dark, there is a car that flashes it’s headlights before they pass me, I always appreciate that. Obviously you can’t see the headlights during the day so it makes sense to use the horn instead. Too many people are offended by the horn however it’s something I use when approaching a junction on my motorbike with a car waiting to pull out who hasn’t looked my way, a little beep and as soon as they look a wave to show I wasn’t telling them off.
I've been yelled at by cyclists (yes several) in Manchester while crossing a road on a pedestrian crossing to "get out the f-ing way". Motorists who behave like that with cyclists are regularly and rightly prosecuted. I've yet to see a cyclist held to account in this way.
Motorists get prosecuted a lot less than you would imagine. Usually the only thing they get done for is speeding.
@@edj4833 even that can be a tricky one in some area's.
@Nigel Buckham Really? Based on what precisely? Where you there?
I'm old and someone has probably already stated this but when I was young we were told to ride bikes in single file not side by side, there were even public information films on the TV to tell us this.
As a cyclist, I really appreciate a warning from a car about to overtake me - either a brief toot in the day or a flash of the lights at night. Well done Ashley Neal!
You mentioned it briefly - with these new regs EVERY bicycle should be legally required to be fitted with a bell to enable warning of pedestrians - how many of us, out walking, have been passed by a cyclist from behind, sometimes at speed , with complete surprise? While I'm on my hobby horse with these new regs it should also now be a legal requirement that all bicycles be fitted with a rear view mirror. And thanx BBB for you excellent channel.
I'd go along with that. My cycle did come with a bell fitted, but I found it too shrill and fitted one with a better tone...and yes, I have a mirror fitted to both my cycles.
There were no pedestrians on the crossing when the taxi drove over it.
Highway Code Rule 20 - Where there is an island in the middle of a zebra crossing, wait on the island and follow Rule 19 before you cross the second half of the road - it is a separate crossing.
Nonetheless I do think the Taxi should have stopped.
Unless you mean the Taxi on the other side who passed behind someone already on the crossing.
I concur, taxi with its back to us, I believe,under the old rules( this is old footage) ,didn't need to stop.
Old rules state the Taxi driver "should" stop. Not stopping leaves the driver open to prosecution from a whole range of laws/rules.
Anyone arguing to the contrary needs to imagine what happens when a two tonne vehicle hits a 70kg adult or a 20kg child.
Please do not confuse advice for a pedestrian to the rules for a licensed vehicle driver. Driving is a privilege not a right, that privilege can easily be removed.
@@groot6830 I Wholeheartedly agree Groot. If you meet anyone arguing to the contrary and who confuses pedestrians with Taxi drivers be sure to tell them.
Agree 100%. Tooting the horn warns bicyclists a car is going to pass them and the bicyclists should remain in the lane they are in currently.
I know a girl who crossed a road when the lights said cross, and was hit by a cyclist who jumped/ignored a red light.
She ended up in hospital and now permanently uses crutches because of her injuries. The cyclist sued her for his injuries, claiming that she should have looked.
One should hope the case was reversed and she was awarded damages
Maybe we should just take all the light sets away, it works , then peeps can be responsible for every wrong move. and it will happen when we are carbon neutral and getting random power cuts for hours at a time no lights then,
What case was this? Names, places? Or is it just bullshit?
@@FFVoyager The case was of course civil, and rightly dismissed by the court. The cyclist was fined for the traffic offence.
Spot on. Also many cyclists should look up the Highway Code what the different colours of traffic lights mean
1 bag egg will ruin the omelette altogether, Same with 1 bad cyclist will give every cyclist a bad name, & causes hate from the public for all cyclists on the road. He is lucky that person didn't punch him or kick him off his bike, but good for him for standing up to the cyclist
A bit dangerous to put your egg in a bag LOL !
A poor driver will be an idiot no matter which vehicle they use. I drive and cycle, (shocking isn’t it, a cyclist who owns a car), and i operate both modes of transport with same degree of care and attention. Following the law.
What bell? I rarely see a cyclist with a bell or other warning device of late
Me and my brother had an illegal bike rider on the pavement say beep,beep to us ,to get out of her way.
10/10 for brass neck.
Took mine off my bike, all it did was cause aggression, walkers/ramblers tend to spin around and try to smash you with their walking sticks or simply block your path deliberately. Replaced it with one from a dog collar, which makes a constantly noise.
@@Strider9655 I suspect, based on my experience, that lycra clad cyclists see the bell, as some motorists do the horn, as a instrument of aggression "ring ring RING RING RING = get the hell out of my way not a single I'm here ring.
@Nigel Buckham Well it's the stereotype that the cycling community has cultured - Lycra seems to indicate" I'm a real sports cyclist out for adventure" as opposed to an individual in jeans, skirt (lets say everyday clothing) who is using their bike as a means of travel and they have no desire to speed around annoying every one in their path.
@@barrieshepherd7694 You do realise you're attaching emotional meaning to a very simple noise.
On Saturday just gone, I was on a Zebra crossing and had to jump back for a cyclist. When I yelled, in fright, the cyclist stopped - not to apologise, but to give me a load of abuse for "getting in his way", and to call me "stupid dumb b!tch". A real charmer this one!
For context, I was three quarters the way across too and hadn't just stepped out in front of him, when he rode through.
I may be mistaken, but I'm sure that clip was on TH-cam before the Highway Code changes. That in no way excuses the cyclists action, who deserves to be prosecuted, (good on the pedestrian for preventing the cyclist carrying on). As for Ashley's video, it's a double edged issue. Ashley is quite right to beep his horn to let the cyclists know he is there. However the cyclists were probably aware, he had followed them for a while. The use of the horn could be interpreted as aggressive, as is often the case. I watch Ashley's channel and he has improved my driving and cycling skills.
Yes. That is quite an old clip.
Yep years old.
what action of the cyclist?
@@climatechangedoesntbargain9140 Going through the pedestrian crossing, the first clip shown.
@@hicky62 what's the issue?
I love cycling on a warm summer evening , not so much for commuting. I don't wear ear buds so I can listen out and be aware of what's around me and basically work on the principle of sharing but I still get the odd driver giving me grief :( considering I have a motorbike and a car I definitely pay enough road tax to also ride my push bike on them
I follow Ashley and for me the cyclist should have gone to single file. For what I’ve read when approached buy faster traffic should move to inside to let them passed, this is also a case of cyclists doing what they like and giving all cyclists a bad name.
Wrong. It's actually better if they ride two abreast. Simple reason being that even if you overtake a single bike with the distance you have to keep you have to move into the opposing line anyway. So you might as well fully move over to the other lane when overtaking. However, if the cyclists ride two abreast the length you need to overtake is more than halved compared to when they go single file. Or in other words, overtaking two cyclists riding two abreast is much quicker than overtaking two cyclists riding single file.
@@ArminGrewe No, the new highway code rules don't support this argument. On a narrow road such as the one is Ashley's video, it is physically impossible to give 1.5m of space from the cyclist cycling closest to the centre of the road, which is the recommended distance when below 30mph. So, you should not overtake the 2 abreast cyclists at more than 30mph. If they were single file, you could give more than 1.5m of space and therefore the highway code says you can overtake above 30mph.
So what is faster, overtaking 2 abreast at below 30mph, or overtaking 2 in single file at, say, 50mph?
@@adamspencer95 The road is ~6m wide. The outer cyclist is 1m from the centreline. Ashley thus has something like 4m to use. He is overtaking at about 25mph and he can give 1.5m of space comfortably. 2m is pushing it, which is what he (erroneously - read rule 163 carefully) believes he needs.
Here's a very simple question to ask in order to know if there's room to overtake - do the cyclists go to single file when faced with oncoming traffic? If they don't, that's because they judge they have enough room on their side of the road (and they will be much better at judging this than you). Provided you use the full lane to overtake (and your vehicle is of a similar width), you'll also give them enough room. It's actually pretty simple when you think about it.
@@ArminGrewe your opinion HC says to move over when approached by faster vehicles and only to ride in centre in slow moving traffic, as we’re giving opinion mine is gross stupidity with changes and the people at most risk should take the most care against anything that can cause them harm. As a pedestrian I always give way to everything that can cause me injury.
Rule 112 of The Highway Code:-
The horn. Use only while your vehicle is moving and you need to warn other road users of your presence.
Once the lycra goes on, out goes the brain cell.
As regards Ashley's use of the horn to warn the cyclists, that was perfectly correct. The horn is a warning to alert someone of your presence, and I was taught to use it when I had my driving lessons.
@@nigelbuckham6417 Just noticed your reply, (a year later), but I used to commute on a bike for several years, also going for bike rides into the countryside from the city and never once felt the need to wear lycra. As for golf, I wouldn't play that anyway as my sporting interests lie elsewhere.
i thought a crossing like that, with an island/refuge 1/2 way was treated as 2 crossings. Time to re-read my book.
If you watch any police chase videos, they will briefly sound their horn when passing, keep up the good work, thank you
Absolutely!
After more than a decade of driving, I finally read the Highway Code and realised the horn is meant only for emergencies or to alert others of my presence. It's so hard not to use it to vent frustration when someone makes a mistake on the road! Anyone else struggle with this?
A "Hello, I am here" toot is fine.
As a cyclist (not by choice but because I lost my licence due to medical issues), a "get outta my way" blast really pisses me off, because I have as much right to be there as the car does.
What also pisses me off, is when a car tries to force its way past me while I am overtaking parked cars, leaving me literally just a few cm of space between it and the parked cars. If you are in that much of a hurry that you can't wait 20 or 30 seconds for me to clear the parked cars, then start your journey earlier, ffs.
Even drivers get confused with new rules. Yesterday, the traffic light changed to green. Two cars passed, then the next stopped to let pedestrians cross.