It hit me - the reason you seem so good at everything you do is that you're willing to experiment and learn and try again, and very quickly learn from those mistakes. Thats a great skill to have.
Impressively accurate for such long skinny cone dimensions. Very nice. Great finishing job too. For a wooden mandrel, I might worry about shape stability long-term as the wood slightly swells and shrinks due to changing humidity. Then again I've never made anything from wood that required tight tolerances so maybe I'm overthinking it.
I think if a wooden mandrel was stored indoors, and protected from water dripping on it, it would be serviceable for decades. How long do baseball bats last?
@@RonCovell I had a wood mandrel,,,or buck made just like that aluminium cone to make a exhaust cone for a corvette restoration,, used a rubber hammer and hose clamps,,,worked quite well actually
Wow, great video. Love that fixture too! I remember when I first saw you forming cones out of 1/8” plate and using those cones to build stunning suspension uprights. That was a life changing experience.
Alan - yes, I agree that it's a lot of work, and it can only produce a cone with one angle, but if you want to make a cone specifically like that, there aren't a lot of options.
@@RonCovell hi ron i have been rolling cones for expansion chambers , for nearly fifty years, now they are not as accurate as yours as they are hand formed and hammered straightish but we have so many angles our easiest way would be wood or steel formers but again you have to make a lot of cones to be worth while
The pressure rollers are segmented because they have to roll at a different speed. When the mandrel turns half a rotation, the rollers at the large end have to roll a longer distance than at the smaller end. By segmenting the rollers they don't have to slide on the metal, causing extra effort to do the work.
What you say is certainly true, but I build a cone roller without segmentation, and it works pretty well - even though there is a lot of slipping going on: th-cam.com/video/mmUgT2tXsqg/w-d-xo.html
I just use a normal straight roller. Of course, I have to pre-bend the edges. It rolls a cone but without any end pieces to it. These will be applied later if needed. On a machine, as you have I see it's much easier to get a nice shape without having to pull the sheet. Nice video. :)
I remember Mike being featured in your How To Work With Tubing video. The things that go through his mind when he creates his sculptures! Almost as much work building the fixtures and tools as the actual sculptures themselves.
What a fantastic fixture! As usual, you give a super-clear explanation of each part of the process, and leave me with the (false) impression that I could do it too. 😁
nice work Ron, i watched this this video because im involved with high quality double lock standing seam roofing, therefore i have to learn to fabricate waste stack vent pipe that wont leak from 26g painted steel. ive learned some techniques but id love to make a tool that would make some of it easier...
What a scandal it would be if someday we found out that just outside the camera view of Ron's admirably clean workspace there were hoarded stacks of newspapers, piles of laundry on the floor, and teetering piles of tools and scraps.
Well, I promise you that the rest of my workshop is nowhere near as 'squeaky-clean' as the area where I shoot videos, but I don't have piles of laundry on the floor, and I do stack my scrap metal fairly neatly. If you look closely behind my bending brake, you can see some real clutter: th-cam.com/video/7j74e7p-Xnw/w-d-xo.html
My first project in Sophomore Metal Shop was an Expansion Chamber for my 63 Yamaha 55. 20 ga. galvanized with a folded lap seam, brazed together. My Teacher was derisive, called it a pop pop pipe. Would not give me a grade for it. 😎
Good afternoon, Ron! I thoroughly enjoyed the video as always. That is a very thoughtfully designed fixture Mr. Cooper built with all the supports and the series of small rollers. I wouldn't have thought of that and as a result would have ended up with lots of flex as you described. I appreciate you taking the time to share the process with us and even more so for showing your solutions to the minor problems you encountered along the way. Using the simple hose clamps was brilliant and worked like a champ.👌 Cheers, buddy. I hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend.
Thanks so much. Yes, the hose clamps were a great solution for pulling the cone up tight against the mandrel. It probably could be done with rope, in a pinch (no pun intended).
Thank you for sharing your expertise in your videos, super interesting and very didactic, cant wait to experiment myself!!! Your channel is amazing! Greetings from Mexico
Beautiful work and presentation. I made a cone for my project just yesterday but mine is certainly crude compared to yours. Nevertheless, my cone is satisfactory for its purpose: it stands on a gas stove burner and is used to radiate heat into a small space. I did the math to make my pattern then placed it on a section of used black stove pipe to mark the cuts. I cut it out with a plasma cutter then rolled it into a cone shape by hand. Mine is riveted together. I like your idea of making a mandrel from hard wood - I will try that next time to get more control on the final shape.
Wow! Cone engineering has everything. The first cone I made was with a free template download, hammer, and pipe. It was very challenging and looked like a sack full of walnuts. Great video as always keep up the content Ron. I'll say it in advance congratulations on the 200K subs!
Hi Ron, I appreciate all you do it's very interesting to learn form a skilled man such as your self. On the cone rolling fixture you spoke about the many rollers rather than the singular one you mentioned that it was the rigidity was needed you were of course correct, also I might add that the distance each roller must travel per revolution of the mandrel would also be a factor.
You are absolutely correct that each of the rollers rotates at a unique rate, determined by where it touches the cone. When I made the 'heavy metal cone' fixture, there is only one roller, so I know most of it was sliding, but it still seemed to work OK. The issue would be greater on a longer cone, and on one with larger size differences between the large and small end, but I still think that bending is a larger issue than sliding. th-cam.com/video/mmUgT2tXsqg/w-d-xo.html
Instead of a drawing board, various graphic editors are used. they facilitate the work and give the possibility of automation of the design work. They share information through standardized file types.
I'm guessing the gap in the final cone was because the paper template was a lot thinner than the sheet metal used for the cone, and you have to account for the material thickness. I'm surprised the machine didn't have a big wheel to grab hold of and crank it round :D I was waiting for you to bring in this giant wheel from off camera and slot it onto the end :P Excellent stuff as always, Ron!
I think your idea about accounting for the metal thickness is right-on. I didn't think it would matter that much, but experience taught me I was wrong. Certainly a giant wheel could be used to turn the mandrel, but my half-inch 'breaker bar' worked just fine.
@@RonCovell I also wonder if running the material back and forth a few times will stretch the metal out enough to close up the gap. Will likely work better with softer more malleable metals like copper and aluminium, not sure about steel though 😊
From my experience with an English wheel, which is designed to stretch metal, I don't think Mike Cooper's tool develops enough pressure to stretch 34" of 16-gauge steel.
Your are correct. When calculating the blank size of a cylindrical/conical object you must use the outside circumference. In a previous life I used an Excel spreadsheet and later a parametric modeling program and a CNC machine to develop the flat pattern. The rolling machine Ron borrowed is nice for a pointy cone, open ( the frustrum of a ) cone can be made with a store bought sheet metal roller. I also added extra material that was marked by the NC machine to be trimmed away after rolling. This allowed us to have the finished edges to meet without any flat areas. We were rolling 1/8” aluminum.
Made a cone a few years ago. Just draw out the segment lines and as it rolled through the rollers i pulled the material so each line was parallel with the rollers. Cant even see my work no, its in the roof for an extractor. regards, Paul
@@RonCovell I used a sheet of ali. It was in fact a oblique cone. Stretched and shrunk opposite ends so it would fit in and over the different size pipes i was connecting to. All starts with a drawing
Sounds like a cool project. I've found T0 aluminum rather difficult to source. It is not stocked by my local dealers, so I've had to special order it when needed.
I thought that this video was outstanding. Forming cones that have a fit up flat and tight is tough. Tig welding an inconsistent joint on a cone is to me the maximum frustration with no way to avoid the roller coaster weld. Not to be able to get to the inside for raising the low areas makes it worse. The fixture that you demonstrated is really a work of art. Thank you
Nice project. I think, maybe, that the multiple small rollers are to better accommodate the difference in surface speed at the various diameters along the cone and, as you pointed out, a single roller would have to be pretty big to be stiff enough. A single roller would have to slip or skid someplace to deal with the different speed. Not sure if that would make. big difference, but it probably wouldn't make things better. Many shorter rollers reduces this problem. Very nice fixture BTW. Those first few cones were pretty expensive if they had to absorb the cost of the fixture. I get a lot of cones for exhaust systems from CONE engineering.
Yes, there is no question that breaking the rolls into smaller segments reduces the 'sliding' a solid roller would have. I have made cones with a solid roller, so that issue is not a deal-breaker: th-cam.com/video/mmUgT2tXsqg/w-d-xo.html
When you first showed the fixture I thought the setup was intended for the attachment of the leading edge of the sheemetal (not the middle). So that rotation was in one direction while slowly adding additional pressure every rotation , similar to sliproller.
Well, you certainly could use this machine in a similar way, but that's not how Mike configured it. This video shows another approach with only two rollers, rather than the three on Mike's machine, and on a slip roll: th-cam.com/video/mmUgT2tXsqg/w-d-xo.html
The Cone looks so Simple and clean, Your Method looks so Simple and Clean, Your Thinking looks so Simple and Clean. I am going to get up off my back side and do something.
What do you think of having 3 tapered rollers, all in one, like a parallel roller, but all with the same taper, you may be able to direct roll sheet steel to form your taper.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think there would be a flat spot on this one, because the mandrel is always supporting the material against the smaller rollers, as opposed to a traditional rolling machine where the rollers are not the same size as the finished part, and it relies on having 3 points of contact to do the bending, so at some point you get the end of the material passing one of the outside rollers and the distance between that roller and the middle one becomes your flat spot. You lose adjustability with this method though, you have to have a mandrel for every size of part you want to make.
Thanks for chiming in on this. It's true that the flat spot would be smaller on this fixture than on a traditional slip roll, but Mike Cooper (the fellow who made the fixture) told me that he got flat spots, so I thought I'd take steps to alleviate the issue. You are absolutely right that this design is locked in for one taper, although you could use selected sections of the fixture to make cones of different sizes, as long as the taper was the same.
love your videos Ron keep up the good work, im currently making an exhaust for my motorcycle and i was wondering if it is possible to roll a cone with a normal slip roll
Well, it's tricky, but it can be done. A standard slip roll can't make a cone with a diameter smaller than the rollers, and small rollers tend to bend once they get very long. Here's an example of what CAN be done: th-cam.com/video/OsSMXqPs8OY/w-d-xo.html
1:25 many rollers also because each roller is rotating at a different RPM as the cone varies in diameter. 1 long roller would be sliding on the workpiece.
Of course what you say is true. I did make a shorter cone rolling fixture, and even though the single roller had to slide, it still worked pretty well: th-cam.com/video/mmUgT2tXsqg/w-d-xo.html
Oh my gosh ! What a great video ! I need to roll some cones from 1/4" aluminum. I will definitely watch your other video ....did you say the title was " Heavy Metal Cones" ? Thank you very much for taking the time and effort to compile and post this !!!
Here's the link for the Rolling Heavy Metal Cones video: th-cam.com/video/mmUgT2tXsqg/w-d-xo.html I've never done it with 1/4-inch material. It should be possible, but it will take a REALLY beefy fixture!
Hi Ron. He sure made an excellent fixture. I agree with you that wood might work well and it woudl be a lot cheaper than aluminum. Nicely done. Now you can start making horns for cars and musical instruments. ;)
👍✝️🇺🇲💪 I think I'll have a go at making one of those horns they use on those old ricola commercials now! (I'll forward all of my neighbor's complaints to you)😉
if you put that against gun fire (smaller cones) the crushing of the cone will absorb/deflect/bounce a ton of any incoming energy (like a bullet trap), hexagonal cone spike pattern
Wondering if you could show how to build a cone shaped multi section 45" firepit cover? I'm thinking of using galvanized flashing with seams like hvac ducting.
"Can't weld to aluminum" Have seen articles that apparently you can... the intermetallic layer is particularly nasty though, and I don't recall what process tricks if any are recommended to pull it off. Certainly have not tried it myself, and don't recommend it... just interesting it can be done at all(!).
I sometimes do include the welder settings in my videos, but I didn't this time. Here's a rough overview: DC, electrode negative, 65 amps, 3/32" 2% lanthanted tungsten sharpened to a sharp point, at about 45-degrees, with 15 CFH argon and no pulsing. Did I miss anything?
Hi Ron, I’m in the woodworking trade myself, but I love metalworking for fun. I’m curious if there is a variety of sandpaper that you find best for this type of metal work? Not looking for brand names but abrasive type. I favour serated aluminum oxide for most of my work on bare wood and finishes for instance.
I use aluminum oxide for most of my abrasives. I'm told that newer abrasives like 3M Trizact are superior (and considerably more expensive) but I haven't invested in them yet.
Yes, I use bar soap to prevent aluminum from loading up abrasives, and it works quite well. Here's one example: th-cam.com/video/AdImOWRUalc/w-d-xo.html
Hi Ron How did you prevent the weld from shrinking and turning it into a cone shaped banana..did you work the weld after welding I have done similar jobs in the past in steel and stainless ..had problems with the dreaded banana Cheers mate love your work
I've made quite a few cones, and none of them have curved like a banana. I can see how this could be a possibility, particularly with stainless. I didn't stretch the weld by hammering after it cooled, but that would be way to correct any distortion if it did happen. I think the smaller the diameter of the cone, and the smaller the taper, the more of a problem 'bananaization' would be.
@@RonCovell thanks mate...yes the cones I have done and had problems with were small diameter long cones ..and as such were extremely difficult to straighten...thanks for the reply Cheers mate
Ron great video. I noticed you did not show the transition when welding a long seam. Did you stop or was it continuous. I'd like a video on how to join long welds, with multiple methods if possible arc tig mig?
It was a more-or-less continuous weld. I stopped a few times to re-position my body. Here's a video that addresses welding long seams in more detail: th-cam.com/video/nN9lSoWu7bg/w-d-xo.html
I've been working in metal since childhood yet I always get to learn a new technique, pretty much every time I turn around. I've never had to make a cone, but that would've been helpful in making a few other sheet metal shapes. Most of my welding has been structural, but I've made a few fuel tanks and other types of tanks and I've seen some better methods than some I've stumbled through. Thanks Ron, always interesting!
Excellent info as always. Very thankful for the content you put out, it's an underappreciated resource. I got into metalwork at age 15, self taught from videos like yours over the last 15 years since. Keep it up!
Ron, I have a question that I think you could answer, and would make a great video. I want to make a set of fenders for my car, but what's a good method to get them to match other than just eyeballing it? I will probably make them from fiberglass or carbon, but ideally I just want to make one with clay on the car. Then I'd cast a mold and try to mirror it. How do you accurately mirror a metal fender, or part?
Really nice job. That cone looks to be virtually perfect. Can I ask have you made things like fully rounded ends to ie. pipes or containers? Any hints about how to approach such things in design and in actual fabrication. *edit* Asked too soon. Just noticed BlondiHacks collaboration. I'll definitely watch that 👍👍
It's pretty challenging to make a 180-degree dome from a flat piece of metal. One of the issues is that the center tends to get too thin. You can see a deeply-domed part I made here: th-cam.com/video/ES2g7OR9bic/w-d-xo.html Also, you can buy ready-made domes to cap pipes and containers: th-cam.com/video/QnXxzITsY-c/w-d-xo.html
Mike currently has a show running at the Museum of Sonoma County: museumsc.org/michael-cooper/ I have made two other videos that feature his work: th-cam.com/video/v6npNnhEa4s/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/X88tJcuI5H4/w-d-xo.html Here's a video from the 1970's, showing Mike building an amazing piece called 'Turbo': th-cam.com/video/VnZtKAMc2HY/w-d-xo.html And last, Coopers website here is Cooper's website: michaelcooper.us/ Mike will have a book coming out in about 4 months detailing his entire career.
Very nice work! Looks like a very expensive and time consuming process to fab one size cone. A slip roll and beakhorn stake would be my choice. Because I'm a tight wad😂
Glad you liked the video. Yes, you would need to make quite a few cones to justify making such an elaborate fixture. If you had to do it by hand, the tools you mention would be a good place to start!
Love the clean workspace and precision of your work. I was wondering if a modified version of this could make different angle cones. A center threaded shaft and multiple threaded disks to allow you to vary the distance from large to small end of the cone.
I have made SMALL conic sections using the technique you describe: th-cam.com/video/MaZ_tdqPRAQ/w-d-xo.html I don't think it would be feasible for cone this long, especially with one end so small, but I've never experimented to find the limits.
Great video! I have a sheet metal question. I need to drill 54 1/2" ID holes along the long side (3/4") of a 1/2" x 3/4" x 36" piece of 1/16" thick aluminum angle. The centers of these holes need to be spaced 2/3" apart so there is a 1/6" wide space between their edges. Also the bottom edges of these holes need to be flush with the top of the short side (1/2") of the aluminum angle so there will be a 3/16 space between their tops and the edge of the aluminum angle. I only have a drill press to do this work. What is a good approach to accurately laying out and drilling these holes?
Many approaches to this. Ideally, I'd use an annular cutter to make the holes (like a Rotabroach): th-cam.com/video/QkApYGk2sQU/w-d-xo.html First, I'd lay out a centerline for all the holes, spaced 5/16" away from the corner of the angle.. I would do the layout on the OUTSIDE of the angle, so you will have to find a way to hold the angle upside down and horizontal in your drill press. A drill vise is a convenient way to do this. Next, I'd use a pair of dividers to lay out the hole centers along your layout line. Last, I'd centerpunch the center of each hole, and drill with the annular cutter. Easy peasy!
The Blue sculpture of the 6 wheeled racecar by Michael Cooper is based on a Tyrrell P34 car, which is a piece of auto racing history. I tried to find more pictures of this sculpture with no success. Can you provide a link or web address where I can see more pics of this piece of art? Thanks
Hello If this rig was designed where a crank could be utilized , by running a shaft , thru the center of the cones and then a lever , attached to the cone shaft, outside the the body of the roller fixture, could you not roll the aluminum cone and creat the bend , with out the lever being compromised in full movement. The outside, shaft driven lever, could create the whole bend in one turn or two half turns 👍Edit: nevermind , thats how yall designed it. Should have watched the whole video lol😅
Very interesting I understand the concept but I have a 60 inch slip roll that does the same thing obviously I can't do anything past probably 12 gauge. And I'm limited to the diameter of the role as far as the end of the cone.
I enjoyed this great video Ron. I admire your willingness to show how to make difficult parts. I also enjoy making seamless cones and round shapes in a spinning process. Working with sheet metal is my passion.
Thank you for the kind words. I would like to learn more about metal spinning. Could a cone this long and slender be made by spinning, and if so, would you prefer to start with a flat disc, or a piece of tubing? If tubing could be used, could it be welded tubing - either DOM, or ERW?
@@RonCovell I’m a huge fan, love your work with the English Wheel, truly there’s nothing you could learn from me, unless you’d like to take up Astronomy, even then I’m just an enthusiastic amateur. Your work is a pleasure to watch. I’ve shared your vids quite a few times. Thank you for indulging me. David
Well, MANY years ago, I was a member of the San Jose Junior Astronomer's club, and even started grinding a 12" mirror. Outside of reading a few books, I haven't kept up on the subject.
Mike told me that he made many passes. I figured that it takes a certain amount of torque to start the metal bending, and it's probably better to just keep going, rather than to make many passes at different 'depths'. Seems like it worked fine.
Any idea how long it took to make that fixture? Even with a water jet to cut all those ribs it seems like it'd be a solid week of work just for the structure, plus time on the lathe to cut that taper.
I didn't ask Mike how long he spent building that fixture. I know it would take me at least a week - probably longer. My little 1/2-horsepower lathe would really struggle turning a cone the size of that mandrel. Fortunately, Mike has a couple of pretty serious lathes.
It hit me - the reason you seem so good at everything you do is that you're willing to experiment and learn and try again, and very quickly learn from those mistakes. Thats a great skill to have.
You hit the nail on the head!
For the record, I just don't make videos about the MANY things I am NOT good at!
It's such a pleasure to see the videos of a gentleman! Many thanks to you!
So nice of you!
Impressively accurate for such long skinny cone dimensions. Very nice. Great finishing job too.
For a wooden mandrel, I might worry about shape stability long-term as the wood slightly swells and shrinks due to changing humidity. Then again I've never made anything from wood that required tight tolerances so maybe I'm overthinking it.
I think if a wooden mandrel was stored indoors, and protected from water dripping on it, it would be serviceable for decades. How long do baseball bats last?
@@RonCovell Would sealing the wooden cone with several coats of marine spar varnish help?
I'm sure it would keep the wood a lot more stable. Wooden boats seem to go for quite a few years before they need to be re-sealed.
@@RonCovell I had a wood mandrel,,,or buck made just like that aluminium cone to make a exhaust cone for a corvette restoration,, used a rubber hammer and hose clamps,,,worked quite well actually
Hey, that's great! Whatever it takes to get the job done.
Wow, great video. Love that fixture too! I remember when I first saw you forming cones out of 1/8” plate and using those cones to build stunning suspension uprights. That was a life changing experience.
Thanks, Joe! Mike Cooper saw that simple design, and 'had his way' with it!
yes i like the fixture but it will only produce one cone angle , that a lot of work for one cone
Alan - yes, I agree that it's a lot of work, and it can only produce a cone with one angle, but if you want to make a cone specifically like that, there aren't a lot of options.
@@RonCovell hi ron i have been rolling cones for expansion chambers , for nearly fifty years, now they are not as accurate as yours as they are hand formed and hammered straightish but we have so many angles our easiest way would be wood or steel formers but again you have to make
a lot of cones to be worth while
Alan - I completely understand. Sometimes you just have to get the job done, and there isn't time to make a fancy fixture.
The pressure rollers are segmented because they have to roll at a different speed. When the mandrel turns half a rotation, the rollers at the large end have to roll a longer distance than at the smaller end. By segmenting the rollers they don't have to slide on the metal, causing extra effort to do the work.
What you say is certainly true, but I build a cone roller without segmentation, and it works pretty well - even though there is a lot of slipping going on:
th-cam.com/video/mmUgT2tXsqg/w-d-xo.html
I just use a normal straight roller. Of course, I have to pre-bend the edges. It rolls a cone but without any end pieces to it.
These will be applied later if needed. On a machine, as you have I see it's much easier to get a nice shape without having to pull the sheet. Nice video. :)
Sounds like you know what you're doing. Thanks for watching, and for commenting!
I remember Mike being featured in your How To Work With Tubing video. The things that go through his mind when he creates his sculptures! Almost as much work building the fixtures and tools as the actual sculptures themselves.
There is a lot of truth in what you say!
What a fantastic fixture! As usual, you give a super-clear explanation of each part of the process, and leave me with the (false) impression that I could do it too. 😁
You probably could do it if you had that fixture!
nice work Ron, i watched this this video because im involved with high quality double lock standing seam roofing, therefore i have to learn to fabricate waste stack vent pipe that wont leak from 26g painted steel. ive learned some techniques but id love to make a tool that would make some of it easier...
Martin,
Why don't you email me some of the details of what you want to do, and maybe I'll have some ideas on how to make it:
covell@cruzio.com
You have great mentorship skills! Thanks for a very informative and pleasant learning experience!
I appreciate that!
What a scandal it would be if someday we found out that just outside the camera view of Ron's admirably clean workspace there were hoarded stacks of newspapers, piles of laundry on the floor, and teetering piles of tools and scraps.
Well, I promise you that the rest of my workshop is nowhere near as 'squeaky-clean' as the area where I shoot videos, but I don't have piles of laundry on the floor, and I do stack my scrap metal fairly neatly.
If you look closely behind my bending brake, you can see some real clutter:
th-cam.com/video/7j74e7p-Xnw/w-d-xo.html
I’m pretty sure all the grinding dust would levitate it’s own way into the bin!.
My first project in Sophomore Metal Shop was an Expansion Chamber for my 63 Yamaha 55. 20 ga. galvanized with a folded lap seam, brazed together.
My Teacher was derisive, called it a pop pop pipe. Would not give me a grade for it.
😎
I would have given you an A+!
Good afternoon, Ron! I thoroughly enjoyed the video as always. That is a very thoughtfully designed fixture Mr. Cooper built with all the supports and the series of small rollers. I wouldn't have thought of that and as a result would have ended up with lots of flex as you described. I appreciate you taking the time to share the process with us and even more so for showing your solutions to the minor problems you encountered along the way. Using the simple hose clamps was brilliant and worked like a champ.👌 Cheers, buddy. I hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend.
Thanks so much. Yes, the hose clamps were a great solution for pulling the cone up tight against the mandrel. It probably could be done with rope, in a pinch (no pun intended).
Thanks for the video, you are in deed a great master in metal forming and workshop technics.
Thanks for watching, and for taking the time to comment!
Thank you for sharing your expertise in your videos, super interesting and very didactic, cant wait to experiment myself!!! Your channel is amazing! Greetings from Mexico
Mater Ron, how educative insight into the preparation and a nice recovery for the undercut 👍always a chance to learn something useful, as always
Glad you enjoyed it!
Beautiful work and presentation. I made a cone for my project just yesterday but mine is certainly crude compared to yours. Nevertheless, my cone is satisfactory for its purpose: it stands on a gas stove burner and is used to radiate heat into a small space. I did the math to make my pattern then placed it on a section of used black stove pipe to mark the cuts. I cut it out with a plasma cutter then rolled it into a cone shape by hand. Mine is riveted together. I like your idea of making a mandrel from hard wood - I will try that next time to get more control on the final shape.
Sounds like you got good results from a much simpler setup!
That green brake is a gorgeous machine.
Thanks. It seemed expensive when I bought it, but that machine has served me very well for about 40 years!
Hi Ron.
Fixtures are king.
I like to design odd stuff just so I can make a new tool or fixture.
Another project done well.
Jere
Thanks so much, Jere. Yes, sometimes the fixtures are as much fun as the project!
Wow! Cone engineering has everything. The first cone I made was with a free template download, hammer, and pipe. It was very challenging and looked like a sack full of walnuts. Great video as always keep up the content Ron. I'll say it in advance congratulations on the 200K subs!
Thanks for watching and commenting. Yes, I hope to top 200K subscribers in a few weeks!
Hi Ron, I appreciate all you do it's very interesting to learn form a skilled man such as your self.
On the cone rolling fixture you spoke about the many rollers rather than the singular one you mentioned that it was the rigidity was needed you were of course correct, also I might add that the distance each roller must travel per revolution of the mandrel would also be a factor.
You are absolutely correct that each of the rollers rotates at a unique rate, determined by where it touches the cone. When I made the 'heavy metal cone' fixture, there is only one roller, so I know most of it was sliding, but it still seemed to work OK. The issue would be greater on a longer cone, and on one with larger size differences between the large and small end, but I still think that bending is a larger issue than sliding.
th-cam.com/video/mmUgT2tXsqg/w-d-xo.html
Instead of a drawing board, various graphic editors are used. they facilitate the work and give the possibility of automation of the design work. They share information through standardized file types.
Thanks for the info!
Wonderful art, and homemade cone machine. Great video Ron.
Thank you kindly!
I'm guessing the gap in the final cone was because the paper template was a lot thinner than the sheet metal used for the cone, and you have to account for the material thickness. I'm surprised the machine didn't have a big wheel to grab hold of and crank it round :D I was waiting for you to bring in this giant wheel from off camera and slot it onto the end :P
Excellent stuff as always, Ron!
I think your idea about accounting for the metal thickness is right-on. I didn't think it would matter that much, but experience taught me I was wrong.
Certainly a giant wheel could be used to turn the mandrel, but my half-inch 'breaker bar' worked just fine.
@@RonCovell I also wonder if running the material back and forth a few times will stretch the metal out enough to close up the gap. Will likely work better with softer more malleable metals like copper and aluminium, not sure about steel though 😊
From my experience with an English wheel, which is designed to stretch metal, I don't think Mike Cooper's tool develops enough pressure to stretch 34" of 16-gauge steel.
Your are correct. When calculating the blank size of a cylindrical/conical object you must use the outside circumference. In a previous life I used an Excel spreadsheet and later a parametric modeling program and a CNC machine to develop the flat pattern.
The rolling machine Ron borrowed is nice for a pointy cone, open ( the frustrum of a ) cone can be made with a store bought sheet metal roller. I also added extra material that was marked by the NC machine to be trimmed away after rolling. This allowed us to have the finished edges to meet without any flat areas. We were rolling 1/8” aluminum.
Adding extra metal to the edge of the blank, and trimming after rolling is an excellent solution to eliminating the flat spot!
Made a cone a few years ago. Just draw out the segment lines and as it rolled through the rollers i pulled the material so each line was parallel with the rollers.
Cant even see my work no, its in the roof for an extractor.
regards,
Paul
That's a clever idea - I hadn't thought of using lines for alignment!
@@RonCovell I used a sheet of ali. It was in fact a oblique cone. Stretched and shrunk opposite ends so it would fit in and over the different size pipes i was connecting to. All starts with a drawing
Nice work Ron👍 Your friend Mike is very talented
I think so too!
😲 I instantly subscribed. I have always wondered how this is done. Now I know! Thanks Ron!🤗
Welcome, and thanks for the sub!
I made a flattened cone using the card stock layout method to form it from 16 gauge aluminum. T0 aluminum so it was like butter.
Sounds like a cool project. I've found T0 aluminum rather difficult to source. It is not stocked by my local dealers, so I've had to special order it when needed.
Hi Ron thanks again for your skill and knowledge your the craftsman
Thanks a million!
I thought that this video was outstanding. Forming cones that have a fit up flat and tight is tough. Tig welding an inconsistent joint on a cone is to me the maximum frustration with no way to avoid the roller coaster weld. Not to be able to get to the inside for raising the low areas makes it worse. The fixture that you demonstrated is really a work of art. Thank you
Yes, cones can be tricky to make, and I can see that you know the intimate details. Glad you enjoyed this video!
Nice project. I think, maybe, that the multiple small rollers are to better accommodate the difference in surface speed at the various diameters along the cone and, as you pointed out, a single roller would have to be pretty big to be stiff enough. A single roller would have to slip or skid someplace to deal with the different speed. Not sure if that would make. big difference, but it probably wouldn't make things better. Many shorter rollers reduces this problem. Very nice fixture BTW. Those first few cones were pretty expensive if they had to absorb the cost of the fixture. I get a lot of cones for exhaust systems from CONE engineering.
Yes, there is no question that breaking the rolls into smaller segments reduces the 'sliding' a solid roller would have.
I have made cones with a solid roller, so that issue is not a deal-breaker:
th-cam.com/video/mmUgT2tXsqg/w-d-xo.html
Very nice! Hope we can cross paths again at the Detroit Autorama.
Thank you! I don't plan to travel to the Detroit Autorama this year - maybe again in 2024.
When you first showed the fixture I thought the setup was intended for the attachment of the leading edge of the sheemetal (not the middle). So that rotation was in one direction while slowly adding additional pressure every rotation , similar to sliproller.
Well, you certainly could use this machine in a similar way, but that's not how Mike configured it. This video shows another approach with only two rollers, rather than the three on Mike's machine, and on a slip roll:
th-cam.com/video/mmUgT2tXsqg/w-d-xo.html
The Cone looks so Simple and clean,
Your Method looks so Simple and Clean,
Your Thinking looks so Simple and Clean.
I am going to get up off my back side and do something.
I hope you do something cool!
What do you think of having 3 tapered rollers, all in one, like a parallel roller, but all with the same taper, you may be able to direct roll sheet steel to form your taper.
That would be the best way to go, and there are some specialized rollers made in that way:
th-cam.com/video/AEYOxDG-Tac/w-d-xo.html
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think there would be a flat spot on this one, because the mandrel is always supporting the material against the smaller rollers, as opposed to a traditional rolling machine where the rollers are not the same size as the finished part, and it relies on having 3 points of contact to do the bending, so at some point you get the end of the material passing one of the outside rollers and the distance between that roller and the middle one becomes your flat spot.
You lose adjustability with this method though, you have to have a mandrel for every size of part you want to make.
Thanks for chiming in on this. It's true that the flat spot would be smaller on this fixture than on a traditional slip roll, but Mike Cooper (the fellow who made the fixture) told me that he got flat spots, so I thought I'd take steps to alleviate the issue.
You are absolutely right that this design is locked in for one taper, although you could use selected sections of the fixture to make cones of different sizes, as long as the taper was the same.
love your videos Ron keep up the good work, im currently making an exhaust for my motorcycle and i was wondering if it is possible to roll a cone with a normal slip roll
Well, it's tricky, but it can be done. A standard slip roll can't make a cone with a diameter smaller than the rollers, and small rollers tend to bend once they get very long.
Here's an example of what CAN be done:
th-cam.com/video/OsSMXqPs8OY/w-d-xo.html
1:25 many rollers also because each roller is rotating at a different RPM as the cone varies in diameter. 1 long roller would be sliding on the workpiece.
Of course what you say is true. I did make a shorter cone rolling fixture, and even though the single roller had to slide, it still worked pretty well:
th-cam.com/video/mmUgT2tXsqg/w-d-xo.html
Don't forget the essence of metal fabrication... it's about the cones.
Yes - and circles, triangles, and rectangles are all quite useful, too!
nice work mr Covell thanks for the information
I'm so glad you enjoyed it!
Oh my gosh ! What a great video ! I need to roll some cones from 1/4" aluminum. I will definitely watch your other video ....did you say the title was " Heavy Metal Cones" ? Thank you very much for taking the time and effort to compile and post this !!!
Here's the link for the Rolling Heavy Metal Cones video:
th-cam.com/video/mmUgT2tXsqg/w-d-xo.html
I've never done it with 1/4-inch material. It should be possible, but it will take a REALLY beefy fixture!
another fine video. great work!
Thank you! Cheers!
Great pleasure to watch and your warm smile is so appreciated !
Best wishes from Denmark
Thank you very much!
very good sir, I appreciate your skills
It's my pleasure!
Always learning from you! Thanks for sharing!
My pleasure!
April 20th already?
The Premiere is in 12 hours.
LOL
Clever idea. Great video.
Glad you liked it!
Hi Ron.
He sure made an excellent fixture.
I agree with you that wood might work well and it woudl be a lot cheaper than aluminum.
Nicely done. Now you can start making horns for cars and musical instruments. ;)
Thanks and musical instruments would be a fun diversion!
👍✝️🇺🇲💪 I think I'll have a go at making one of those horns they use on those old ricola commercials now! (I'll forward all of my neighbor's complaints to you)😉
All the best!
Awesome Ron!
Thanks so much!
got smarter！😊
thanks for the fun video
You're welcome!
if you put that against gun fire (smaller cones) the crushing of the cone will absorb/deflect/bounce a ton of any incoming energy (like a bullet trap), hexagonal cone spike pattern
optional composite filling
its very light weight but strong, very low sheet metal volumetric density, very high filler/air density, as an armor
also the cone spikes mesh formation work like a rpg mesh grid pre-exploder in the abrams tanks
you could also directly crush-cast into cone spike form (molten or just push the metal into the form with a ton press)
push so hard that the sheet will be pushed into same thickness (with the mold inner cone pusher)
What I learned. Air powah >>> electric powah! Those cleanup tools made finishing looks easy.
Yes, the right tools can really make the finishing steps easier!
Wondering if you could show how to build a cone shaped multi section 45" firepit cover? I'm thinking of using galvanized flashing with seams like hvac ducting.
I think your idea could work well, and flashing is inexpensive, and easy to work with!
Very good work, thanks you.
I'm so glad you liked it!
"Can't weld to aluminum"
Have seen articles that apparently you can... the intermetallic layer is particularly nasty though, and I don't recall what process tricks if any are recommended to pull it off. Certainly have not tried it myself, and don't recommend it... just interesting it can be done at all(!).
Yes, I have read that steel and aluminum CAN be welded together with specialized industrial processes, but not with a TIG welder like I have.
Hey maybe next time you might include spec’s on your tig setting’s. Other than that it was awesome. I’m not sure where to start. Thanks Ron Murphy
I sometimes do include the welder settings in my videos, but I didn't this time. Here's a rough overview:
DC, electrode negative, 65 amps, 3/32" 2% lanthanted tungsten sharpened to a sharp point, at about 45-degrees, with 15 CFH argon and no pulsing. Did I miss anything?
That fixture is a work of art!
Well, it was made by an artist!
Hi Ron, I’m in the woodworking trade myself, but I love metalworking for fun. I’m curious if there is a variety of sandpaper that you find best for this type of metal work? Not looking for brand names but abrasive type. I favour serated aluminum oxide for most of my work on bare wood and finishes for instance.
I use aluminum oxide for most of my abrasives. I'm told that newer abrasives like 3M Trizact are superior (and considerably more expensive) but I haven't invested in them yet.
@@RonCovell okay, thanks Ron.
@@RonCovell on a similar subject, do you have any tricks to prevent aluminum from loading up sanding belts?
Yes, I use bar soap to prevent aluminum from loading up abrasives, and it works quite well. Here's one example:
th-cam.com/video/AdImOWRUalc/w-d-xo.html
@@RonCovell Thanks so much Ron. That’ll save me a few buck for sure.
Parabens Amigo, exelente trabalho, belissima obra de arte.👍👍👍👍👏👏👏👏
Muito obrigado!
sweet job
Another great vid! 🙂
Glad you enjoyed it!
awesome job
Thanks!
Hi Ron
How did you prevent the weld from shrinking and turning it into a cone shaped banana..did you work the weld after welding
I have done similar jobs in the past in steel and stainless ..had problems with the dreaded banana
Cheers mate love your work
I've made quite a few cones, and none of them have curved like a banana. I can see how this could be a possibility, particularly with stainless.
I didn't stretch the weld by hammering after it cooled, but that would be way to correct any distortion if it did happen.
I think the smaller the diameter of the cone, and the smaller the taper, the more of a problem 'bananaization' would be.
@@RonCovell thanks mate...yes the cones I have done and had problems with were small diameter long cones ..and as such were extremely difficult to straighten...thanks for the reply
Cheers mate
If I understand correctly, the implied first step in "how to make a cone" is "make a cone". ;)
Well, in this case at least - yes!
Go on... give this man a like :)
Thank you sir 👍
Ron great video. I noticed you did not show the transition when welding a long seam. Did you stop or was it continuous. I'd like a video on how to join long welds, with multiple methods if possible arc tig mig?
It was a more-or-less continuous weld. I stopped a few times to re-position my body.
Here's a video that addresses welding long seams in more detail:
th-cam.com/video/nN9lSoWu7bg/w-d-xo.html
I've been working in metal since childhood yet I always get to learn a new technique, pretty much every time I turn around. I've never had to make a cone, but that would've been helpful in making a few other sheet metal shapes. Most of my welding has been structural, but I've made a few fuel tanks and other types of tanks and I've seen some better methods than some I've stumbled through. Thanks Ron, always interesting!
Great! I'm glad to have you on board!
Excellent info as always. Very thankful for the content you put out, it's an underappreciated resource. I got into metalwork at age 15, self taught from videos like yours over the last 15 years since. Keep it up!
Great, and you can count on me to keep producing videos like this - I love it!
Ron, I have a question that I think you could answer, and would make a great video. I want to make a set of fenders for my car, but what's a good method to get them to match other than just eyeballing it? I will probably make them from fiberglass or carbon, but ideally I just want to make one with clay on the car. Then I'd cast a mold and try to mirror it. How do you accurately mirror a metal fender, or part?
Jeff, I do have a video on just this subject. Here's the link:
th-cam.com/video/Ktj5DWaKXYI/w-d-xo.html
I reckon you were secretly commissioned to make the 2024 Olympic torches 🤔🤔🤔
If not, let's all petition the IOC to make it happen 😆😆
Boy, would I relish THAT opportunity!
nice work
Thanks!
Really nice job. That cone looks to be virtually perfect. Can I ask have you made things like fully rounded ends to ie. pipes or containers? Any hints about how to approach such things in design and in actual fabrication.
*edit* Asked too soon. Just noticed BlondiHacks collaboration. I'll definitely watch that 👍👍
It's pretty challenging to make a 180-degree dome from a flat piece of metal. One of the issues is that the center tends to get too thin.
You can see a deeply-domed part I made here:
th-cam.com/video/ES2g7OR9bic/w-d-xo.html
Also, you can buy ready-made domes to cap pipes and containers:
th-cam.com/video/QnXxzITsY-c/w-d-xo.html
A straight line intersect a toroidal surface (equations of the 3rd and 4th degrees )
I watched your video. Very interesting, but I am poor with mathematics, so I couldn't follow all the equations.
Expect a subscriber boost Ron, Colin furze just gave you a mention.
Hey, that's great news, indeed!
A true Master using awesome tools to make the impossible. Spoke to him years ago at SEMA, a very nice person.
Thanks for that!
Very conical video.
HAH - good one!
Great work! If there any more info on the sculpture mike built?
Mike currently has a show running at the Museum of Sonoma County:
museumsc.org/michael-cooper/
I have made two other videos that feature his work:
th-cam.com/video/v6npNnhEa4s/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/X88tJcuI5H4/w-d-xo.html
Here's a video from the 1970's, showing Mike building an amazing piece called 'Turbo':
th-cam.com/video/VnZtKAMc2HY/w-d-xo.html
And last, Coopers website here is Cooper's website:
michaelcooper.us/
Mike will have a book coming out in about 4 months detailing his entire career.
Very nice work! Looks like a very expensive and time consuming process to fab one size cone. A slip roll and beakhorn stake would be my choice. Because I'm a tight wad😂
Glad you liked the video. Yes, you would need to make quite a few cones to justify making such an elaborate fixture. If you had to do it by hand, the tools you mention would be a good place to start!
My fathers businesses were down the street from Dries and Krump.
Yes - Dries and Krump went on to become Chicago - as I understand it - the maker of my bending brake.
Great video. That tool/fixture mike made is a work of art in its own way.
Thanks, and I'm so glad you liked it!
Love the clean workspace and precision of your work. I was wondering if a modified version of this could make different angle cones. A center threaded shaft and multiple threaded disks to allow you to vary the distance from large to small end of the cone.
I have made SMALL conic sections using the technique you describe:
th-cam.com/video/MaZ_tdqPRAQ/w-d-xo.html
I don't think it would be feasible for cone this long, especially with one end so small, but I've never experimented to find the limits.
That’s gonna fit so much ice cream!
I like the way you think!
Great video! I have a sheet metal question. I need to drill 54 1/2" ID holes along the long side (3/4") of a 1/2" x 3/4" x 36" piece of 1/16" thick aluminum angle. The centers of these holes need to be spaced 2/3" apart so there is a 1/6" wide space between their edges. Also the bottom edges of these holes need to be flush with the top of the short side (1/2") of the aluminum angle so there will be a 3/16 space between their tops and the edge of the aluminum angle. I only have a drill press to do this work. What is a good approach to accurately laying out and drilling these holes?
Many approaches to this. Ideally, I'd use an annular cutter to make the holes (like a Rotabroach):
th-cam.com/video/QkApYGk2sQU/w-d-xo.html
First, I'd lay out a centerline for all the holes, spaced 5/16" away from the corner of the angle.. I would do the layout on the OUTSIDE of the angle, so you will have to find a way to hold the angle upside down and horizontal in your drill press. A drill vise is a convenient way to do this.
Next, I'd use a pair of dividers to lay out the hole centers along your layout line.
Last, I'd centerpunch the center of each hole, and drill with the annular cutter.
Easy peasy!
🥀We kiss the hands of the masters🥀
The Blue sculpture of the 6 wheeled racecar by Michael Cooper is based on a Tyrrell P34 car, which is a piece of auto racing history. I tried to find more pictures of this sculpture with no success. Can you provide a link or web address where I can see more pics of this piece of art? Thanks
I'm sorry I don't have a link to more photos, but the car makes a cameo in this video:
th-cam.com/video/v6npNnhEa4s/w-d-xo.html
Hello
If this rig was designed where a crank could be utilized , by running a shaft , thru the center of the cones and then a lever , attached to the cone shaft, outside the the body of the roller fixture, could you not roll the aluminum cone and creat the bend , with out the lever being compromised in full movement. The outside, shaft driven lever, could create the whole bend in one turn or two half turns 👍Edit: nevermind , thats how yall designed it. Should have watched the whole video lol😅
Hey, I'm glad you watched until the end, and took the time to comment!
Ron is the Mr. Rogers of metal working.
Thanks for the nice compliment!
Very interesting I understand the concept but I have a 60 inch slip roll that does the same thing obviously I can't do anything past probably 12 gauge. And I'm limited to the diameter of the role as far as the end of the cone.
Standard slip rolls can certainly make cones - with some limitations.
I enjoyed this great video Ron. I admire your willingness to show how to make difficult parts. I also enjoy making seamless cones and round shapes in a spinning process. Working with sheet metal is my passion.
Thank you for the kind words.
I would like to learn more about metal spinning. Could a cone this long and slender be made by spinning, and if so, would you prefer to start with a flat disc, or a piece of tubing? If tubing could be used, could it be welded tubing - either DOM, or ERW?
I like how he says cone
You are an inspiration sir! The next time I fabricate, I will be thinking about your craftsmanship. Absolutely excellent!
Wow, thanks!
I don't know if you get excited about this kind of stuff lol but Collinfurze meantioned you in his latest video
Of course I get excited when someone as popular as Colin Furze mentions me. He's a very high-powered and creative guy, and I love what he does!
Ron, I’d be happy to show you some more advanced techniques.
Please do - I'd love to see whatever you've got! You can contact me at:
covell@cruzio.com
@@RonCovell Ron, in truth im very modest. The limelight is yours.
I'm still eager to learn anything I can. Don't be shy about contacting me by email.
@@RonCovell I’m a huge fan, love your work with the English Wheel, truly there’s nothing you could learn from me, unless you’d like to take up Astronomy, even then I’m just an enthusiastic amateur.
Your work is a pleasure to watch. I’ve shared your vids quite a few times.
Thank you for indulging me. David
Well, MANY years ago, I was a member of the San Jose Junior Astronomer's club, and even started grinding a 12" mirror. Outside of reading a few books, I haven't kept up on the subject.
Hi!
Why did you roll it in on go?
Is there any benefit versus doing it bit by bit?
Thanks
Mike told me that he made many passes. I figured that it takes a certain amount of torque to start the metal bending, and it's probably better to just keep going, rather than to make many passes at different 'depths'. Seems like it worked fine.
Any idea how long it took to make that fixture? Even with a water jet to cut all those ribs it seems like it'd be a solid week of work just for the structure, plus time on the lathe to cut that taper.
I didn't ask Mike how long he spent building that fixture. I know it would take me at least a week - probably longer. My little 1/2-horsepower lathe would really struggle turning a cone the size of that mandrel. Fortunately, Mike has a couple of pretty serious lathes.
I see now why those cones are so expensive!
Yep, a lot of work goes into making the tooling, and finishing each cone.
Happy to see Colin furze shout you out in his new video!
Oh my gosh, what a thrill that was! And I LOVE that crazy drift trike modification he did by hydroforming stainless spheres for the rear tires!
@@RonCovell Thanks Ron 😀
Working with sheet metal is a beautiful art and you do it so well.😊
Thank you so much 😀