The grounding electrode conductor is permitted to originate at the meter, and basically all that you said was false. See NEC 250.24(A)(1) which states "The grounding electrode conductor connection shall be made at any accessible point from the load end of the overhead service conductors, service drop, underground service conductors, or service lateral to the terminal or bus to which the grounded service conductor is connected at the service disconnecting means." This means at the meter is perfectly fine.
Do you have a video on the subject of grounding service equipment especially upstream and downstream of the first point of disconnect? I would like to learn once and for all. Thanks.
There are two wires running to that ground rod. I think it's the dual bond that's the problem. If you're already grounded inside then adding an additional ground outside is incorrect. The rest of what he said highlights this exact point.
My inspectors fail us in this jurisdiction if the meter is grounded and the main disconnect is inside. Doesn't matter what the NEC they are authority having jurisdiction and they can overrule it.
So if you connect your grounding conductor to the main panel how does the meter enclosure get grounded? The code says that anything that has power in it has to be bonded to ground.
In the meantime my guess would be because it's on the "line side" and not the "load side". The load side begins where the first main disconnect starts, whether that's in your meter socket or at the main panel inside (like in the video).
@@crazyDIYguy Those are just words. The electricity doesn't care what "side" it is on. Perhaps the enclosure is already internally bonded to the neutral?
Yes your meter must be grounded or bonded to a panel by way of an approved bonding means same for the main panel. All metal parts that could be potentially exposed to energized parts must be grounded all the way down to small metallic device boxes. The problem with this installation is two separate EGC connected to the ground rod. You never leave a meter ungrounded. If something happens to the neutral connection and metal parts become energized then persons or properly become a really nice potential earth ground.
Is the problem that this property only has a relatively high-impedance earth connection that is just intended to carry enough current to trip an RCD (GFCI) and this is the wrong side of the RCD so wouldn't trip it?
@@thomasdalton1508 definitely one of the potential problems, the other main problem with grounding that specific setup are parallel paths for the neutral to travel if we grounded both meter base and main disconnect/panel inside.
@@crazyDIYguy That's only a problem if you use too thin a wire for the grounding, right? In the UK, we have minimum thickness requirements for wires that could become alternative neutrals (we mostly use TN-C-S/PME so pretty much everything can end up being a neutral path, so it is a significant concern).
So if I am seeing this video correctly the is connected both at the meter socket and going into the main breaker panel. It can be either but not both unless AHJ or utility requires one or the other. Only created neutral by grounding once.
Neutral at the top connection failed, his circuits started relying on the ground to earth (which is weak to begin with for adequate neutral). That failed quickly so it found a ground through the aluminum siding which led to the cable companies ground. Aluminum started corroding and the "substitute" neutral started arching heating up the siding. Eventually causing the wood to smolder in the wall for days without us noticing. By the time I noticed the inside of the wall was gone and glowing coals. Saved it with a chainsaw and a hose. This house in the vid is aluminum too, neutral top connections fail constantly, it would easily start arching through that meter socket, slowly heating up the siding and....
@@CubbyTech wherever your main disconnect is you ground. So in the video the main disconnect is in the basement, therefore we don't ground the meter socket. If the main disconnect was outside at the meter socket, we'd run all our grounding to those. Then we would have 4-wire "SER" feeding the breaker box from the meter base, the 4-wire ser has a ground wire so the panels would be grounded that way.
But in my exact situation in this video, the meter base isn't grounded at all. Just the breaker box in the basement, that has all the grounds going to it, from the gas, water meter, ground rods, etc. I'm going to make a more thorough video on it.
Old meter that hasn't been swapped out to a smart meter yet and still requires a meter reader to get the power usage. Where is that? Most utilities are going to smart meters where they use a 900mhz signal to communicate to a grid. This reports power usage real time and also power outages real time. Rare to find one that hasn't been upgraded yet.
The grounding electrode conductor is permitted to originate at the meter, and basically all that you said was false. See NEC 250.24(A)(1) which states "The grounding electrode conductor connection shall be made at any accessible point from the load end of the overhead service conductors, service drop, underground service conductors, or service lateral to the terminal or bus to which the grounded service conductor is connected at the service disconnecting means." This means at the meter is perfectly fine.
Okay that wraps it up, fellas.
Do you have a video on the subject of grounding service equipment especially upstream and downstream of the first point of disconnect? I would like to learn once and for all. Thanks.
There are two wires running to that ground rod. I think it's the dual bond that's the problem. If you're already grounded inside then adding an additional ground outside is incorrect. The rest of what he said highlights this exact point.
@@ronaldkovacs7080 Please review NEC 250.24 for the requirements. No specific video available.
My inspectors fail us in this jurisdiction if the meter is grounded and the main disconnect is inside. Doesn't matter what the NEC they are authority having jurisdiction and they can overrule it.
So if you connect your grounding conductor to the main panel how does the meter enclosure get grounded? The code says that anything that has power in it has to be bonded to ground.
@@dandearman2871 I'm seeing my inspector this week and I'm going to ask him about your exact point you made there. I promise I'll comment what he says
In the meantime my guess would be because it's on the "line side" and not the "load side". The load side begins where the first main disconnect starts, whether that's in your meter socket or at the main panel inside (like in the video).
@@crazyDIYguy Those are just words. The electricity doesn't care what "side" it is on. Perhaps the enclosure is already internally bonded to the neutral?
Not a single part of this installation would be legal in Germany …
That could be the supply side bonding jumper
Yes your meter must be grounded or bonded to a panel by way of an approved bonding means same for the main panel. All metal parts that could be potentially exposed to energized parts must be grounded all the way down to small metallic device boxes. The problem with this installation is two separate EGC connected to the ground rod. You never leave a meter ungrounded. If something happens to the neutral connection and metal parts become energized then persons or properly become a really nice potential earth ground.
"A lot of problems potentially" I see what you did there
Is the problem that this property only has a relatively high-impedance earth connection that is just intended to carry enough current to trip an RCD (GFCI) and this is the wrong side of the RCD so wouldn't trip it?
@@thomasdalton1508 definitely one of the potential problems, the other main problem with grounding that specific setup are parallel paths for the neutral to travel if we grounded both meter base and main disconnect/panel inside.
@@crazyDIYguy That's only a problem if you use too thin a wire for the grounding, right? In the UK, we have minimum thickness requirements for wires that could become alternative neutrals (we mostly use TN-C-S/PME so pretty much everything can end up being a neutral path, so it is a significant concern).
So if I am seeing this video correctly the is connected both at the meter socket and going into the main breaker panel. It can be either but not both unless AHJ or utility requires one or the other. Only created neutral by grounding once.
@@SRCardow1 You can't ground only the meter, surely, or you'll have no ground for the rest of the installation?
Nothing crazy about this. Sorry your bud got burned.
Neutral at the top connection failed, his circuits started relying on the ground to earth (which is weak to begin with for adequate neutral). That failed quickly so it found a ground through the aluminum siding which led to the cable companies ground. Aluminum started corroding and the "substitute" neutral started arching heating up the siding. Eventually causing the wood to smolder in the wall for days without us noticing. By the time I noticed the inside of the wall was gone and glowing coals. Saved it with a chainsaw and a hose. This house in the vid is aluminum too, neutral top connections fail constantly, it would easily start arching through that meter socket, slowly heating up the siding and....
I was waiting for you to say something and out the wires tucked in behind the gutter…
So are you saying don't use a ground at all? Or just ground the box (which grounds the meter socket)?
@@CubbyTech wherever your main disconnect is you ground. So in the video the main disconnect is in the basement, therefore we don't ground the meter socket. If the main disconnect was outside at the meter socket, we'd run all our grounding to those. Then we would have 4-wire "SER" feeding the breaker box from the meter base, the 4-wire ser has a ground wire so the panels would be grounded that way.
But in my exact situation in this video, the meter base isn't grounded at all. Just the breaker box in the basement, that has all the grounds going to it, from the gas, water meter, ground rods, etc. I'm going to make a more thorough video on it.
Old meter that hasn't been swapped out to a smart meter yet and still requires a meter reader to get the power usage. Where is that?
Most utilities are going to smart meters where they use a 900mhz signal to communicate to a grid. This reports power usage real time and also power outages real time. Rare to find one that hasn't been upgraded yet.
Good ❤
@@peacefulbrsea I love the channel name. 👌😆