It's unfortunate how reality tussles with sensationalism. I've regrettably danced with the issue often. Seems many simply like the idea that: "the depression was so bad they had to use VINEGAR in their pies!" - Never does the true (and oft more interesting) history much justice. Thank you for the informative video.
Still gross though. So many old recipes seemed so desperate to just use up random ingredients in everything. "Eeer, we gotta shedload of vinegar still...let's just convince everyone to use it up in pies!"
The people may have not had access to much. No modern grocery stores. In WWII, they also had to deal with rationing so didn't have access to some foods.
As I understand from some old folks in my family, vinegar pie liquid is basically a base to hold fruit scraps and stale bread, or whatever neutral tasting stuff you have around the kitchen that needs getting rid of before it spoils. I've even heard people putting in leftover potatoes, carrots, and anything that has some chew. Mash or chop it up, and nobody really knows what was in the pie. The vinegar kind of binds all the smells and flavors together. One would definitely also use some sort of allspice or cinnamon mixture as well.
This show has become a standard part of my Sunday morning routine: walk and coffee, grab a montreal style bagel, watch the Old Cookbook Show while eating my bagel, and then hit the gym.
Make a Sunday (more involved) breakfast, perk the coffee, sit down and watch the Old Cookbook Show. No gym, but I can go out on my porch, look at the 14,000 ft. mountain I live near, and fondly remember when I could hike it.
My mom and grandma would take those leftover pie crust pieces, put cinnamon sugar on them, and bake them. So tasty, and it kept the kids from begging for the actual pie, lol
In late 50s, my Mom would threaten us “ eat your dinner or I’ll make a vinegar pie for your dinner” until my sister Dotty made one and it really wasn’t that bad.
Vinegar Pie is referenced in The Little House on the Prairie series which were based on family life circa 1870...so quite some time before the Depression era.
Bless you Sheri - I loved “Little House on the Prairie”…and still do years later! I feel like a “dying breed”, as I rarely hear of anyone mention this show and “Anne of Green Gables”! I bought the series this past year and started watching an episode from time to time. Hope you are having an awesome day!☺
As this pie hails from Pennsylvania, it’s cousins in Waterloo county would have likely been made with apple molasses. Apple cider boiled down till thick, as you would maple syrup.
first thing that popped into my mind: In the mid-80s, my sister found a recipe in a magazine for a vinegar pie, attributed to settlers on the Oregon Trail (magazine was called "Old West" or something like that). We made it for a family meal, my younger brother and I loved it, my father hated it. "Vinegar pie" became a term in our family for "something that seemed like a good idea, but did not meet expectactions" (Going on to watch the rest of the video now)
Hi Glenn...My Mamaw and Mom used to make this pie and also Water Pie alot. I learned to make my own vinegars from them. So...I use my homemade vinegars which are various flavors ... apple, banana, blackberry, etc. Using one of these flavored vinegars really enhances this pie. And a dab of my homemade complimentary extract really makes a better pie!
My first impression from the UK, when seeing the title was "Vinegar pie? What on earth is that?" I have never heard of it before. The main thrifty recipes come from the second world war when rationing was strict. Sugar and molasses (black treacle here) were very rare then as well as butter. Perhaps Lord Woolton pie is the equivalent.
My sister and I were watching, and we both remembered our family vinegar pie. We use my great-grandmother's recipe, which is likely a late nineteenth century recipe (my mother's mother's mother used to make it for my grandmother when she was a girl, and grandma was born in 1901). It had an egg and butter in it, but the egg is not separated. My sister said that our mom said it was a Penn Dutch recipe, which makes sense because our great-grandmother and grandmother were born in rural PA. On a similar note, I'm going to be making a raisin pie that my grandmother used to make for me (back in the sixties) which I still have the recipe for in my great-grandmother's handwriting. 🙂 I'm looking forward to that! Love your show, Glenn, and especially when you dig into the history of the recipes on your Sunday videos!
Amelia, My grandmother also made raisin pie (often) when I was growing up. I did not like because she made it with raisins that had seeds in it. And we did have seedless raisins back in those days. Why she made it with those raisin I will never know. LOL.
My mom made vinegar pie in autumn. She rolled out several thin layers of crust. She put in some filling into the bottom crust, then a layer of crust, more filling, more crust, not sure how many layers, but then the top crust, and she took an ice pick and poked holes all over the top, clear through to the bottom. She brushed the top with water and sprinkled sugar lightly all over the top. The layers of crust puffed up, and the pie came out higher than the plate it was in. So fragrant, so delicious.
You commented on the amount of filling. Back then, the pie pans were more shallow. I inherited some of my great-grandmother's kitchen items and the pie pans were definitely not the size we use today.
As a resident of Lancaster, I feel compelled to mention that Lancaster is pronounced "Lanc-ister", like there is an "i" instead of an "a". Cool recipe, love to see some representation of my corner of the world
Vinegar Pie is mentioned in two of Laura Ingalls Wilder’s Little House books: Farmer Boy and Little Town on the Prairie. So they were common in the American East and Midwest in the 1870’s.
I love how thorough you are Glen! You must love research. I probably wouldn't be watching cooking videos without your awesome history lessons and commentary 😊
Something I've witnessed with events I have first-hand knowledge of is the re-writing of history (intentional or not) and dissemination through the web from people whose research/opinions are maybe one degree removed from wikipedia. It has impressed upon me the need to track down original sources (and even that is going to be a bit fraught) and nullius in verba.
Don't know if you (rsidneyb) meant put the hot liquid in before measuring molasses to "preheat" it to make it slide out or after to rinse it out and get the last of it but I do both. I often fill the glass with hot water before anything hard to get out, (honey, peanut butter, shortening, etc) but using hot liquid from the recipe would make even more sense, thanks for that idea. And, of course, being Grammy Sarrett's favorite granddaughter, we don't waste anything, so we always rinse the jars and cans out, preferably with part of the recipe. I even throw browned ground beef or mushrooms in the spaghetti sauce jar and shake it around to clean it out without watering down the sauce.
I am 83. My mom made vinegar pie when I was a child. I loved it! One day I came into the kitchen and exclaimed, “Oh boy! I smell vinegar pie!” My mom laughed because my face was just above her pot of boiling vinegar-water and sugar looking for that delicious pie.
My first impression?...it was exactly what you're impression was after the first bite. The lemon does sound like an interesting fix. When you announced on the "validity" of information on the internet, I could hear the collective sound of jaws dropping from everyone under 30. I might just try this. Thanks so much. I truly appreciate the work behind the scenes as much as the final product. Always intriguing, interesting, and entertaining. Thanks so much
I have been making Vinegar Pie for my children, who are now adults, and having it myself since I was a very young child in the southern US. The ingredients my family used were only eggs, butter, sugar/molasses, 1T vinegar, and vanilla... bottom crust only. A Chess Pie included flour...
The first place I heard about vinegar pie was in _Come an' Get It_ by Ramon Adams. It's a history of the chuck wagon and cattle roundup trail cooks. Sadly the book doesn't give very clear recipes, but it calls for sugar in this pie.
Interesting. Reminds me of the seven sweets and seven sours from the Pennsylvania Dutch tradition. I would have cooled the filling before putting it in the crust, but your experiment seems to have worked.
My grandma made it. My brothers thought it sounded horrible but I liked everything Grandma made. The only time I’ve ever baked in my 66 years other than cookies when my 3 sons were little, was rhubarb pie in Home Economics in 8th grade. It was the grossest thing I could have ever been forced to make. Enjoyed the video.
This pie is a tradition in my family (I am from Quebec) and we make it using white vinegar, brown sugar, water, a bit of flour and butter. Maybe it is an acquired taste, but we all love it.
The first thing that pops into my head when you say vinegar pie is a sweet tart sort of sugar based evaporation pie common enough here in Ohio. Checking the recipe .... yeah, that's it. It's a good one.
Can I suggest doing a series of “mock” pies? Cause I stumbled across a mock apple pie (quite a few family members are allergic to apple and I wanted to share the deliciousness that is apple pie without making them sick) that is made from zucchini and I have no clue when it is from. It was in a home canning chat group when I found it. But it is exceeding delicious and if I don’t study the “fruit” inside I can’t tell the difference in taste.
Have you ever heard of the mock apple pie made using Ritz crackers? You won't believe it till you've tried it! And, yes Glen, a series of mock pies, or anything else, would be greatly appreciated. ps, our local American Legion Auxillary cookbook had a recipe for "mock pineapple" that started with zucchini
As a resident of St. Cloud, MN I get giddy every time our city is mentioned on your channel! Thanks for doing all of this footwork to mix two of my passions: cooking and history! Super cool stuff!
I could guess that it started early in Britan with the sugar trade , a thickener and a bit of acid to balance. It propagated to the colonized Americas and got regionnalized. Here, in Québec ( previously Nouvelle-France way back), it got personnalized into " Tarte à la Farlouche" with the same type base with optionnal addition of raisins ( or not ).
Interesting. I tried one of those older recipes about 25 years ago. It was a mock apple pie made mostly with saltines. It was hilarious because my kids at the time 2 teens and 2 preteens, all tasted it with eyes closed and thought it really was apple pie. I only made it once because the pan was a nightmare to clean....LOL. I really love that you showed all the different time periods also.
I grew up in York which is just down the road from Lancaster. Sweet & sour is a popular flavor combination around there so maybe that's the reason for this pie, but when the ingredients also give cider as an option it could be just be a desert option for when fresh fruit isn't available.
I'd be interested in an episode explaining how you research old recipes across different newspapers and time periods. Are there searchable databases online? How do you look through your old cookbooks for a specific recipe if you're not sure it will be in any of them?
Oh, that would be neat. I do enjoy a good behind the scenes video, like the tour of the kitchen set one. Maybe I've missed it, this channel has been around a long time before I found it during Covid, but if there isn't a video just showcasing the cookbook collection I'd love to see that too.
@Virginia F. Yes. But that doesn't help me understand the process of using them to track down recipes from different regions through different centuries and decades.
I bet Glen spends lots of time looking in the stacks at the public library looking at actual books and of course, many stacks will contain many old newspapers, bound and can find the recipes that way, as well as online and making copies of certain parts of pages as needed.
Something about your reaction of "weird, oh so weird" at the first taste really had me laughing, especially as I have no idea how this would taste. It's about what I imagine I would say were I to try it
Having had an elderly friend (would be 94 if still alive in 2024) who grew up on a farm in the US before they received government subsidies, I learned how lean the end of winter/early spring months were for them. Most of what they ate was what they grew and preserved (and their family wasn’t particularly large). By spring, all or most of the apples would have been consumed so this recipe would have been a way to stretch what was available to make a dessert. People forget how much of the world was agrarian then and how people were creative with what they had to feed families and still provide some variety and some treats. We, in this time, do not understand fully what it was like. She described week after week of her mother canning vegetables and fruit to prep for winter and preserve every bit of what their farm yielded.
First thing that comes to mind is a book I read last week that was based in the 1800s where a man told his wife that he would leave her if she ever made him vinegar pie haha. After finishing this video, I was surprised by the recipe. In the novel I referenced above, the characters used the term vinegar pie to refer to a fruit pie that used vinegar instead of lemon juice. I wonder where the author got that from.
I’ve been watching for years and never comment. I feel this is your best episode ever. A perfect video that sums up exactly what I enjoy about your channel.
I love learning when things just aren't so. But as others have noted, what you got there is a shoo fly pie. With vinegar. It'd be interesting to see where the shoo fly and the Lancaster vinegar pie parted ways or merged on the recipe tree.
I miss my Mom...first thing I thought was because she made vinegar pie for me. It was my favorite. The last one I had was about 5 years before she died. Fond memories.
With a little thought, it makes sense the Vinegar Pie would vanish during the Depression; vinegar is (usually) a second ferment of wine. If you have wine you're not making vinegar, and if you have vinegar you're not pouring it in a pie crust. This is, of course, disregarding the fascinating point made in the video about the pie recipe grqdually becoming more extravagant.
My grandpa told me his father’s favorite desserts were vinegar and chocolate pie. He was born in 1920 so this would have been during the depression. For years I thought he was BSing me and then I found the recipe
It looks good, but I like molasses a lot. Grandma made molasses bread that I wish I had the recipe for, and it started my fascination for using molasses in other things. I will have to try this. Thank you Glen!
I'm amused that the molasses flavor is pulling you away from the concept of apple pie, because our family apple pie recipe includes a big dollop of molasses as the "secret ingredient"!
Childhood for me was infrequently punctuated by vinegar pie, although my mother made it as vinegar roll, in a rectangular metal pan, not a circular pie shape. Both sweet and tangy, I enjoyed it, and I've missed it for the last 60 years.
I was going to write to you and see if you would make one of these! My mom made them and they are delicious! We were told they were “mock apple.” It was like a cobbler when she made them. The vinegar was really mellow. Thanks!
This pie reminds me of Shoo-Fly Pie, another Pennsylvania Dutch staple. Given that the cookbook is from Lancaster, PA, it makes sense, as that's "Amish Country."
I always thought it was using vinegar instead of lemon juice because it was an acid and you would have it ready to hand. If you had different vinegars I am thinking you would get some real interesting differences in flavor. .
The rest of this newspaper page is certainly making for interesting reading! I’d love to see the whole page so I could get the entirety of the stories!
I associate vinegar pie with rural late winter cooking. Like sugar pie and butter tarts, it's a way of making a high-calorie food (like a fruit pie) when all the summer fruit has been used up. I didn't even know that it was associated with the Great Depression!
For what it’s worth, several years ago on the Civil War Talk forum Receipts of the Blue & Gray Sweet Baked Goods there was a discussion thread on Vinegar Pie. Respectfully, W.S.
This is the only cooking show I subscribe too. I may watch other show on the occasion if the show something interesting but Glenn And Friends is my go to show that I look forward to every episode. I am with DerekOnPurpose who asked about seeing a show on how you do the research on the recipes. Can we have one Glenn?
I remember Laura Ingalls Wilder in the Little House books talking about how vinegar pie was one of the pies served to the threshers in the later 1800’s.
What came to my mind when you named it was "never heard of it, sounds unpleasant". What I thought at the end of the video was "now I've heard of it, still sounds unpleasant".
I made vinegar dumplings once with my grandmother. She made short dough and we rolled with cinnamon and sugar. Cut pieces of maybe 1.5 inch rolls into about 1/4 inch pieces and cooked in a sugar and vinegar liquid. They were interesting.
When my maternal grandmother passed away, I ended up with her family Royal Doulton bone china, which the original set dates back to the mid-1800s. When she received them in 1920 a few items were broken, so she ordered replacements from R.D. and you can see that even if they are purported to be the same pattern, there are subtle difference. But the teacups? Completely different- the originals are just about 3 modern US ounces while the 1920 replacements are nearly 6 US ounces.
If you heat the water and vinegar first, take out a cup or so, then add the molasses, you can use the cup of hot liquid to get the rest of the molasses out of the glass.
I was thinking some sort of Apple pie. Like late winter, the apples you stored in fall are questionable. The cider you pressed is turned. You make something with what is on hand.
This looks similar to my husband's favorite pie. It's called chess pie and sadly we no longer have his preferred recipe as his mom passed before she shared it
I suppose one should probably ask the questions; What were the qualities, and varieties of the the ingredients that were used in this 1859 recipe? Was the molasses sulfured, unsulfured, dark, light, blackstrap, sorghum, sugar beet, cane, clover, maple syrup... ? Was the flour A/P, 00, whole wheat. barley or rye mixed... ? Vinegar- wine, apple cider, distilled, malt, cane...? Each combination of just these three ingredients could make a complete different flavor for each pie made. This episode just popped up in my feed today. I haven't seen an episode since the Cream Soda, and Cola experiments. I thought I was subscribed, but for some reason I was not. I am now. I have a lot of videos to watch now!
I read my great-grandmother love to make vinegar pies, I thought why and how could that be good. I will make this in the near future to taste for myself.
Vinegar cobbler query: have you ever come across vinegar cobbler in your research? My mom always talks about her grandmother's vinegar cobbler. She said it had a top and bottom crust and pieces of pastry in the vinegar filling.. she said it was very tart but delicious.. Great grandma didn't have many recipes recorded she just made stuff. She was born in 1892. I've always wanted to try it but she never made it during the time I knew her.
It's unfortunate how reality tussles with sensationalism. I've regrettably danced with the issue often. Seems many simply like the idea that: "the depression was so bad they had to use VINEGAR in their pies!" - Never does the true (and oft more interesting) history much justice. Thank you for the informative video.
Still gross though. So many old recipes seemed so desperate to just use up random ingredients in everything. "Eeer, we gotta shedload of vinegar still...let's just convince everyone to use it up in pies!"
I’m impressed that one of the content creators that I watch regularly is also a fan of this TH-cam channel!
@@AD-kv9kj it's called cooking, grow up
@@shirleyannconfer9651 yes, same!
The people may have not had access to much. No modern grocery stores. In WWII, they also had to deal with rationing so didn't have access to some foods.
As I understand from some old folks in my family, vinegar pie liquid is basically a base to hold fruit scraps and stale bread, or whatever neutral tasting stuff you have around the kitchen that needs getting rid of before it spoils. I've even heard people putting in leftover potatoes, carrots, and anything that has some chew. Mash or chop it up, and nobody really knows what was in the pie. The vinegar kind of binds all the smells and flavors together. One would definitely also use some sort of allspice or cinnamon mixture as well.
I remember my grandma making something similar and she would use a potato. As you say - no one knows the difference. 😊
This show has become a standard part of my Sunday morning routine: walk and coffee, grab a montreal style bagel, watch the Old Cookbook Show while eating my bagel, and then hit the gym.
Same, I make coffee and then check to see if Glen's video is up yet.
Same. Coffee and the old cookbook show are my Sunday mornings.
Kinda the same except I honestly don't have a Sunday routine outside of watching this channel. This channel is my Sunday routine.
Make a Sunday (more involved) breakfast, perk the coffee, sit down and watch the Old Cookbook Show. No gym, but I can go out on my porch, look at the 14,000 ft. mountain I live near, and fondly remember when I could hike it.
Meanwhile I wake up in the middle of the afternoon (sundays are my sleep in day) roll out of bed and have my coffee while watching.
My mom and grandma would take those leftover pie crust pieces, put cinnamon sugar on them, and bake them. So tasty, and it kept the kids from begging for the actual pie, lol
Mine too. They spread it lightly with butter, margarine,Grandma called it Oleo. Then the cinnamon and sugar.
@@violetwithey4618 we had ours with Jam , custard , cream or ice cream or maybe all 4
Yep! I did that when my kids were at home, now I do that for my grandchildren. I loved it and so do they!
Here in Quebec they are called "pet des soeurs" which means "Nuns Farts"
My mom did that too, butter, cinnamon sugar, rolled up like a little crescent roll. I did the same for my kids/husband.
In late 50s, my Mom would threaten us “ eat your dinner or I’ll make a vinegar pie for your dinner” until my sister Dotty made one and it really wasn’t that bad.
Vinegar Pie is referenced in The Little House on the Prairie series which were based on family life circa 1870...so quite some time before the Depression era.
That's the first time I heard of it as well. Never once considered it to be a Depression Era recipe.
That was where I first heard of it as well.
Bless you Sheri - I loved “Little House on the Prairie”…and still do years later! I feel like a “dying breed”, as I rarely hear of anyone mention this show and “Anne of Green Gables”!
I bought the series this past year and started watching an episode from time to time.
Hope you are having an awesome day!☺
YES!!! That’s where I first heard about it too!!!
I have been reading this series to my children and they are loving it
As this pie hails from Pennsylvania, it’s cousins in Waterloo county would have likely been made with apple molasses. Apple cider boiled down till thick, as you would maple syrup.
first thing that popped into my mind: In the mid-80s, my sister found a recipe in a magazine for a vinegar pie, attributed to settlers on the Oregon Trail (magazine was called "Old West" or something like that). We made it for a family meal, my younger brother and I loved it, my father hated it. "Vinegar pie" became a term in our family for "something that seemed like a good idea, but did not meet expectactions" (Going on to watch the rest of the video now)
Hi Glenn...My Mamaw and Mom used to make this pie and also Water Pie alot. I learned to make my own vinegars from them. So...I use my homemade vinegars which are various flavors ... apple, banana, blackberry, etc. Using one of these flavored vinegars really enhances this pie. And a dab of my homemade complimentary extract really makes a better pie!
Would you please share with me, how to make Raspberry Vinegar?
Thanks
Banana vinegar sounds so odd to me
Really ?
Would you share your recipes & how to ?
@@busimagen Yes and I still do. Right along with pickles and syrup and relish.
@@busimagen ... My mom made watermelon rind pickles. They were good. Like a bread and butter pickle.
My first impression from the UK, when seeing the title was "Vinegar pie? What on earth is that?" I have never heard of it before. The main thrifty recipes come from the second world war when rationing was strict. Sugar and molasses (black treacle here) were very rare then as well as butter. Perhaps Lord Woolton pie is the equivalent.
My sister and I were watching, and we both remembered our family vinegar pie. We use my great-grandmother's recipe, which is likely a late nineteenth century recipe (my mother's mother's mother used to make it for my grandmother when she was a girl, and grandma was born in 1901). It had an egg and butter in it, but the egg is not separated. My sister said that our mom said it was a Penn Dutch recipe, which makes sense because our great-grandmother and grandmother were born in rural PA.
On a similar note, I'm going to be making a raisin pie that my grandmother used to make for me (back in the sixties) which I still have the recipe for in my great-grandmother's handwriting. 🙂 I'm looking forward to that!
Love your show, Glenn, and especially when you dig into the history of the recipes on your Sunday videos!
Amelia, My grandmother also made raisin pie (often) when I was growing up. I did not like because she made it with raisins that had seeds in it. And we did have seedless raisins back in those days. Why she made it with those raisin I will never know. LOL.
Raining pie was my Dad's favorite pie
My mom made vinegar pie in autumn. She rolled out several thin layers of crust. She put in some filling into the bottom crust, then a layer of crust, more filling, more crust, not sure how many layers, but then the top crust, and she took an ice pick and poked holes all over the top, clear through to the bottom. She brushed the top with water and sprinkled sugar lightly all over the top. The layers of crust puffed up, and the pie came out higher than the plate it was in. So fragrant, so delicious.
You commented on the amount of filling. Back then, the pie pans were more shallow. I inherited some of my great-grandmother's kitchen items and the pie pans were definitely not the size we use today.
Yep - that's why I used a smaller pan, and it could have been smaller still.
Nor the cake tins either.
Oh! Good catch. Now that you’ve said it I feel silly not having realized that myself.
The 70 teacups made me laugh, that anyone would think they are same size- love your channel, thank you
As a resident of Lancaster, I feel compelled to mention that Lancaster is pronounced "Lanc-ister", like there is an "i" instead of an "a". Cool recipe, love to see some representation of my corner of the world
Vinegar Pie is mentioned in two of Laura Ingalls Wilder’s Little House books: Farmer Boy and Little Town on the Prairie. So they were common in the American East and Midwest in the 1870’s.
I love how thorough you are Glen! You must love research. I probably wouldn't be watching cooking videos without your awesome history lessons and commentary 😊
Something I've witnessed with events I have first-hand knowledge of is the re-writing of history (intentional or not) and dissemination through the web from people whose research/opinions are maybe one degree removed from wikipedia.
It has impressed upon me the need to track down original sources (and even that is going to be a bit fraught) and nullius in verba.
This was one of my Grandfather's favorite pies. Sweets we're a treat when we was little and this pie was easy and enjoyed at our table.
If you don't want to spray the molasses measuring cup, you could put a little of the hot liquid from the pan, and swirl it around.
Yup, thought the same thing. I often do that; e.g., getting the last bit of tomato paste out of a can .
Don't know if you
(rsidneyb) meant put the hot liquid in before measuring molasses to "preheat" it to make it slide out or after to rinse it out and get the last of it but I do both.
I often fill the glass with hot water before anything hard to get out, (honey, peanut butter, shortening, etc) but using hot liquid from the recipe would make even more sense, thanks for that idea.
And, of course, being
Grammy Sarrett's favorite granddaughter, we don't waste anything, so we always rinse the jars and cans out, preferably with part of the recipe.
I even throw browned ground beef or mushrooms in the spaghetti sauce jar and shake it around to clean it out without watering down the sauce.
I was sitting there talking to my screen "Glen, you've got a pan of hot water!!!"
Or if measuring by weight, you can use the negative on the scale (by measuring the molasses jar)
"No one really knows what a teacup is."
I love Julie’s face when she heard vinegar pie. 🤣
I am 83. My mom made vinegar pie when I was a child. I loved it! One day I came into the kitchen and exclaimed, “Oh boy! I smell vinegar pie!” My mom laughed because my face was just above her pot of boiling vinegar-water and sugar looking for that delicious pie.
my first thought was logging. I remember visiting Hartwick Pines State Park in Michigan and there was a recipe for Vinegar Pie in one of the displays.
My first impression?...it was exactly what you're impression was after the first bite. The lemon does sound like an interesting fix. When you announced on the "validity" of information on the internet, I could hear the collective sound of jaws dropping from everyone under 30. I might just try this. Thanks so much. I truly appreciate the work behind the scenes as much as the final product. Always intriguing, interesting, and entertaining. Thanks so much
I have been making Vinegar Pie for my children, who are now adults, and having it myself since I was a very young child in the southern US. The ingredients my family used were only eggs, butter, sugar/molasses, 1T vinegar, and vanilla... bottom crust only. A Chess Pie included flour...
I've made a vinegar pie for decades! I grew up eating it and I have a copy of my great grandmother's recipe for it. She died in 1897!
Please tell us your grandmother’s recipe. How did it differ from this one?
The first place I heard about vinegar pie was in _Come an' Get It_ by Ramon Adams. It's a history of the chuck wagon and cattle roundup trail cooks. Sadly the book doesn't give very clear recipes, but it calls for sugar in this pie.
Interesting.
Reminds me of the seven sweets and seven sours from the Pennsylvania Dutch tradition.
I would have cooled the filling before putting it in the crust, but your experiment seems to have worked.
My grandma made it. My brothers thought it sounded horrible but I liked everything Grandma made. The only time I’ve ever baked in my 66 years other than cookies when my 3 sons were little, was rhubarb pie in Home Economics in 8th grade. It was the grossest thing I could have ever been forced to make. Enjoyed the video.
This pie is a tradition in my family (I am from Quebec) and we make it using white vinegar, brown sugar, water, a bit of flour and butter. Maybe it is an acquired taste, but we all love it.
Im so overjoyed I found Glenn and Friends again! I left FB behind over a year ago and missed this show! Hey Jules!!👋
The first thing that pops into my head when you say vinegar pie is a sweet tart sort of sugar based evaporation pie common enough here in Ohio. Checking the recipe .... yeah, that's it. It's a good one.
My grandmother, who was born in 1903 used to make that pie, and taught my mom. I remember it was one of my favorites when I was a little girl.
Can I suggest doing a series of “mock” pies? Cause I stumbled across a mock apple pie (quite a few family members are allergic to apple and I wanted to share the deliciousness that is apple pie without making them sick) that is made from zucchini and I have no clue when it is from. It was in a home canning chat group when I found it. But it is exceeding delicious and if I don’t study the “fruit” inside I can’t tell the difference in taste.
Have you ever heard of the mock apple pie made using Ritz crackers? You won't believe it till you've tried it!
And, yes Glen, a series of mock pies, or anything else, would be greatly appreciated. ps, our local American Legion Auxillary cookbook had a recipe for "mock pineapple" that started with zucchini
I think originally zucchini pie is an old Italian tradition?
I would recommend using a good apple pie recipe and substitute the apples for pears. This keeps it fruit and pears have similar flavour to apples!
I’ve heard of a mock apple pie made from whole ritz crackers. I heard about it in early ‘90’s.
I've had them made out of Ritz crackers, but not zucchini. Sounds good.
As a resident of St. Cloud, MN I get giddy every time our city is mentioned on your channel! Thanks for doing all of this footwork to mix two of my passions: cooking and history! Super cool stuff!
Hello from down river in Winona!
I live in St Cloud too!!
I could guess that it started early in Britan with the sugar trade , a thickener and a bit of acid to balance. It propagated to the colonized Americas and got regionnalized.
Here, in Québec ( previously Nouvelle-France way back), it got personnalized into " Tarte à la Farlouche" with the same type base with optionnal addition of raisins ( or not ).
Yes! I’ve heard of it with raisins too!
I knew it was missing SUMthing
Interesting. I tried one of those older recipes about 25 years ago. It was a mock apple pie made mostly with saltines. It was hilarious because my kids at the time 2 teens and 2 preteens, all tasted it with eyes closed and thought it really was apple pie. I only made it once because the pan was a nightmare to clean....LOL. I really love that you showed all the different time periods also.
I grew up in York which is just down the road from Lancaster. Sweet & sour is a popular flavor combination around there so maybe that's the reason for this pie, but when the ingredients also give cider as an option it could be just be a desert option for when fresh fruit isn't available.
I'd be interested in an episode explaining how you research old recipes across different newspapers and time periods. Are there searchable databases online? How do you look through your old cookbooks for a specific recipe if you're not sure it will be in any of them?
Oh, that would be neat. I do enjoy a good behind the scenes video, like the tour of the kitchen set one. Maybe I've missed it, this channel has been around a long time before I found it during Covid, but if there isn't a video just showcasing the cookbook collection I'd love to see that too.
There are searchable newspaper databases online. I think some require paid. subscriptions.
@Virginia F. Yes. But that doesn't help me understand the process of using them to track down recipes from different regions through different centuries and decades.
I bet Glen spends lots of time looking in the stacks at the public library looking at actual books and of course, many stacks will contain many old newspapers, bound and can find the recipes that way, as well as online and making copies of certain parts of pages as needed.
Something about your reaction of "weird, oh so weird" at the first taste really had me laughing, especially as I have no idea how this would taste. It's about what I imagine I would say were I to try it
"the Letter of a Dying Wife" in the newspaper in the end is some metrical structure you wouldn't find so much these days.
Julie's face when Glen said vinegar pie 😂 exactly mirrored my face.
Mine, too!
Right? You could just hear the enthusiasm melt away when she found out what kind of pie it was
assumption is the instinct of the willfully ignorant
You sent my Mom and I on a hunt for her Grandmother’s recipe. Very similar except she used white sugar and added a teaspoon of cinnamon.
My grandma’s recipe includes 3/4 tablespoon of cinnamon and 1/4 nutmeg. Otherwise exactly the same.
I have ate vingar pie a million times. My grandmother made it once a week when I was growing up.
Having had an elderly friend (would be 94 if still alive in 2024) who grew up on a farm in the US before they received government subsidies, I learned how lean the end of winter/early spring months were for them. Most of what they ate was what they grew and preserved (and their family wasn’t particularly large). By spring, all or most of the apples would have been consumed so this recipe would have been a way to stretch what was available to make a dessert. People forget how much of the world was agrarian then and how people were creative with what they had to feed families and still provide some variety and some treats. We, in this time, do not understand fully what it was like. She described week after week of her mother canning vegetables and fruit to prep for winter and preserve every bit of what their farm yielded.
First thing that comes to mind is a book I read last week that was based in the 1800s where a man told his wife that he would leave her if she ever made him vinegar pie haha.
After finishing this video, I was surprised by the recipe. In the novel I referenced above, the characters used the term vinegar pie to refer to a fruit pie that used vinegar instead of lemon juice. I wonder where the author got that from.
I’ve been watching for years and never comment. I feel this is your best episode ever. A perfect video that sums up exactly what I enjoy about your channel.
Very interesting bit of culinary history, Glen! Thanks!
I'll bet homemade cider vinegar was used in that time period. Commercial vinegar was around then, but maybe not everywhere.
I love learning when things just aren't so.
But as others have noted, what you got there is a shoo fly pie. With vinegar. It'd be interesting to see where the shoo fly and the Lancaster vinegar pie parted ways or merged on the recipe tree.
I miss my Mom...first thing I thought was because she made vinegar pie for me. It was my favorite. The last one I had was about 5 years before she died. Fond memories.
With a little thought, it makes sense the Vinegar Pie would vanish during the Depression; vinegar is (usually) a second ferment of wine. If you have wine you're not making vinegar, and if you have vinegar you're not pouring it in a pie crust.
This is, of course, disregarding the fascinating point made in the video about the pie recipe grqdually becoming more extravagant.
Interesting that you guys had such different reactions. Don't know if I would make this pie, but it was definitely interesting to watch!
My grandpa told me his father’s favorite desserts were vinegar and chocolate pie. He was born in 1920 so this would have been during the depression. For years I thought he was BSing me and then I found the recipe
It looks good, but I like molasses a lot. Grandma made molasses bread that I wish I had the recipe for, and it started my fascination for using molasses in other things. I will have to try this. Thank you Glen!
Julie had the same reaction when Glen said Vinegar Pie as I did when reading it the video title. I'm glad it turned out better than it sounds.
I just love the face Juesl makes when Glen declares it's vinegar pie.
One of my favorite pies!
I'm amused that the molasses flavor is pulling you away from the concept of apple pie, because our family apple pie recipe includes a big dollop of molasses as the "secret ingredient"!
Childhood for me was infrequently punctuated by vinegar pie, although my mother made it as vinegar roll, in a rectangular metal pan, not a circular pie shape. Both sweet and tangy, I enjoyed it, and I've missed it for the last 60 years.
When Julie started eating it she had a sort of pained look, and then she kept going back to eat more so she must have liked it!
I was going to write to you and see if you would make one of these! My mom made them and they are delicious! We were told they were “mock apple.” It was like a cobbler when she made them. The vinegar was really mellow. Thanks!
i made a vinegar pie a long time ago. and it was delicious.
This pie reminds me of Shoo-Fly Pie, another Pennsylvania Dutch staple. Given that the cookbook is from Lancaster, PA, it makes sense, as that's "Amish Country."
I always thought it was using vinegar instead of lemon juice because it was an acid and you would have it ready to hand.
If you had different vinegars I am thinking you would get some real interesting differences in flavor. .
The rest of this newspaper page is certainly making for interesting reading! I’d love to see the whole page so I could get the entirety of the stories!
I associate vinegar pie with rural late winter cooking. Like sugar pie and butter tarts, it's a way of making a high-calorie food (like a fruit pie) when all the summer fruit has been used up. I didn't even know that it was associated with the Great Depression!
This is authentic vinegar pie recipe. The other recipes have lots of eggs and very little vinegar and they are essentially custard filling.
And this is why I love this channel!!!
Grandma called those "affectionate pies" when the crusts snuggled together...
For what it’s worth, several years ago on the Civil War Talk forum Receipts of the Blue & Gray Sweet Baked Goods there was a discussion thread on Vinegar Pie. Respectfully, W.S.
My Grandmother taught me how to make vinegar dumplings. Yum! One of my favorite desserts.
This is the only cooking show I subscribe too. I may watch other show on the occasion if the show something interesting but Glenn And Friends is my go to show that I look forward to every episode. I am with DerekOnPurpose who asked about seeing a show on how you do the research on the recipes. Can we have one Glenn?
I remember Laura Ingalls Wilder in the Little House books talking about how vinegar pie was one of the pies served to the threshers in the later 1800’s.
If that was made as a thin layer on a baking sheet, it would probably look delicious. Like those saltines covered in caramel.
Very interesting history.
What came to my mind when you named it was "never heard of it, sounds unpleasant". What I thought at the end of the video was "now I've heard of it, still sounds unpleasant".
I made Vinegar pie about 10 years ago just to see what it was like. It was good.
I made vinegar dumplings once with my grandmother. She made short dough and we rolled with cinnamon and sugar. Cut pieces of maybe 1.5 inch rolls into about 1/4 inch pieces and cooked in a sugar and vinegar liquid. They were interesting.
No idea what vinegar pie is. I'm glad now I know thanks to you!
It's so cool to see my city pop up more and more in media. It's definitely brought all different kinds of newcomers to the area.
When my maternal grandmother passed away, I ended up with her family Royal Doulton bone china, which the original set dates back to the mid-1800s. When she received them in 1920 a few items were broken, so she ordered replacements from R.D. and you can see that even if they are purported to be the same pattern, there are subtle difference. But the teacups? Completely different- the originals are just about 3 modern US ounces while the 1920 replacements are nearly 6 US ounces.
The first thought that came to my mind? Grandma. She made a great one. Never cared, for the recipe came from as long as the pie came from her kitchen.
I enjoy you're show...Unfortunately, that pie I will pass on...Have a great week friend..
We make vinegar pie all the time they taste like lemon pie. If you use different vinegar it is amazing.
Great research!!!!!
I'd like to see you do a Treacle Tart on the Old Cookbook Show someday.
I was about to post, that this had some resemblance to that!
During the Great Depression, my grandma had a frugal friend who made mock vinegar pie.
I do like the history lessons that come with your Old Cookbook show.
Should have said "a gill" when Julie asked how much vinegar was in there 😂
If you heat the water and vinegar first, take out a cup or so, then add the molasses, you can use the cup of hot liquid to get the rest of the molasses out of the glass.
I was thinking some sort of Apple pie. Like late winter, the apples you stored in fall are questionable. The cider you pressed is turned. You make something with what is on hand.
I'd probably put vinegar into the glass used for measuring out molasses to try and rinse it out (or scoop in some of the hot liquid mixture).
My great uncle's favorite pie (Cobbler). I was the only one to make it for him. Thank you. God Bless and stay Safe.
A commenter below, Lori Shirrin was hoping to fine this cobbler recipe....
This looks similar to my husband's favorite pie. It's called chess pie and sadly we no longer have his preferred recipe as his mom passed before she shared it
Glen made "Chess Pie" before th-cam.com/video/6yxZG64sid8/w-d-xo.html
Glen has a chess pie on the channel in the archives 🎉
Why do mothers/grandmothers do that? Our love for them is not dependent on what they cook for us.
Yes, I thought the same as a resemblance to Chess pie.
I think of preparing for lean times and that did get me to the time of the Great Depression. Thank you for the story that goes along with this recipe!
I suppose one should probably ask the questions; What were the qualities, and varieties of the the ingredients that were used in this 1859 recipe? Was the molasses sulfured, unsulfured, dark, light, blackstrap, sorghum, sugar beet, cane, clover, maple syrup... ? Was the flour A/P, 00, whole wheat. barley or rye mixed... ? Vinegar- wine, apple cider, distilled, malt, cane...? Each combination of just these three ingredients could make a complete different flavor for each pie made.
This episode just popped up in my feed today. I haven't seen an episode since the Cream Soda, and Cola experiments. I thought I was subscribed, but for some reason I was not. I am now. I have a lot of videos to watch now!
I read my great-grandmother love to make vinegar pies, I thought why and how could that be good. I will make this in the near future to taste for myself.
Vinegar cobbler query: have you ever come across vinegar cobbler in your research? My mom always talks about her grandmother's vinegar cobbler. She said it had a top and bottom crust and pieces of pastry in the vinegar filling.. she said it was very tart but delicious.. Great grandma didn't have many recipes recorded she just made stuff. She was born in 1892. I've always wanted to try it but she never made it during the time I knew her.
Joey harden above may share his recipe.
Johnny Appleseed and apple cider vinegar was immediately came to mind for me.