Hornady Critical Defense .45 Colt VS .45 ACP Ballistic Test
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 พ.ย. 2024
- Testing out the Hornady Critical Defense ammunition in .45 Colt and .45 ACP. Both use a 185 gr FTX, the .45 ACP is rated at 1,000 FPS and the .45 Colt is rated at 920 FPS. Doing a 10% Clear Ballistics test with and without 1/4" MDF as well as a 25 yard accuracy test. Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.co...
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Back in the 1800s the US Calvary were totting 32 Long Colts, of which were anorexic when it came to shooting an opponents horse out from under them, so the US military sought to have a pistol made that could handle this task efficiently. Hence the 45 Colt was born. Any who, with this 45 Colt round The Calvary touted that they could reliably shoot the enemies horses out from under them. One shot and down they would go.
The so-called “.45 Long Colt" is just a nick-name for the ".45 Colt” cartridge. That is to say the term "45 Long Colt" is referring to the original round that was called ".45 Colt" which was made by the Union Metallic Cartridge Company. And the so-called Short Colt was a nick-name referring to either the "Calibre .45" made by Frankford Arsenal or the ".45 Colt Government" made by Winchester (but not the .45 Schofield).
The story goes like this, first the US military had the 45 Colt made. Then they adopted the 45 Schofield being it was top break. It just so happened that it could not handle the 45 Colt round [even though the US military asked them to try and make it handle such] without a lot of retooling cost so S&W decided to make it with a shorter softer shooting 45 caliber round.
So now the US military had two different 45 caliber pistols, each with different case dimensions. The 45 Colt round was too long to chamber in the Schofield pistol, and the Schofield's case rim was bigger around and would over lap each other when put into the Colt pistols, whereby only three rounds could be chambered in every other chamber, effectively making them a three shooter. This caused a logistic dilemma. So the US military came up with a solution of which they would simply shortened the 45 Colt case down to 45 Schofield case length, and would use less powder as not to blow up the Schofield pistols. By doing this they had a case with a small diameter rim that would fit in the Colts, yet at the same time was short enough to fit in the Schofield pistol with out blowing it up. Frankford Arsenal got the US government contract and called the new round the "Calibre .45", and later when Winchester started making them they called them the ".45 Colt Government". And while neither of the three rounds ever had long or short in their naming by the manufacturers that produced them, soldiers and citizens would speak of these as long and short Colt rounds. All the while, when they were talking about the 45 Schofield round they would simply say ".45 Schofield".
So the 45 Schofield round was not the reason 45 Colts were called ".45 long Colt", at least not directly. That is to say the only reason long and short ever came to be spoke of was because they shortened the 45 Colt cases down to be able to fit in a Schofield pistol to boot. Yet at the same time 45 Schofield rounds were never ever called "short" because no body ever shortened or lengthened the 45 Schofield rounds, period.
Again, even though the three different manufacturers never named any of these rounds by either Long or Short there were long and short 45 Colt rounds made. And the short ones could chamber in the 45 S&W Schofield pistols as well as the 45 Colt pistols.
So if anyone ever tells you that there was never any such a thing as a long or short .45 Colt round know that they speak from their ignorance. And if anyone ever calls them by "45 long Colt" or "45 short Colt", well, simply understand that they are using nick-names given to them. Again, the correct names for the variety of 45 Colt rounds are ".45 Colt", and "Calibre .45" / ".45 Colt Government".
Now for whatever reason, by the Philippian War, between the years of 1899-1913, our soldiers where issued 38 Long Colts. And they claimed that when the Moros would attack they would empty their six shooters into them and they would not go down, and keep coming [This 38 Long Colt has a diameter of .38"]. So the US military went to the warehouses and brought the 45 Colts DA revolving pistols out of moth balls and issued them to their soldiers with the Calibre .45 / 45 Colt Government cartridges. The solders quickly laid claim that one shot with the Calibre .45 / 45 Colt Government cartridges and the Moros would go down. Boom, just like that!
Now due to the [.452"] Calibre .45 / 45 Colt Government's ballistic performance over the [.38"] 38 Long Colt round, when the US military sought to have a new gun designed in a semi-auto, they wanted to have it chambered in 45 caliber also. [Keep in mind that in 1901 the 9mm (.355") parabellum was introduce to the world, yet our military side stepped that round like the plague, as it reminded them to much of the [.38"] 38 Long Colts that were definitely anorexic when it came to stopping an adversary.] In 1905 Browning designed the 45 ACP and won the contract with the US military. By 1911 he had perfected the design of his M1911 and the 45 ACP round. So by this time Germany had the 9mm and the US had the 45 Auto Colt Pistol of which was a round spawned after one that could drop a doped up attacker just lickidy split.
Decades later our military finally adapted the 9mm due to political pressure based on costs, and our police forces started to follow suit, as did the FBI. Then the FBI re-found out that the 9mm [.355"] was an anorexic round and decided to have a new cartridge developed, as opposed to going back to the 45 ACP. Hence the 10mm stepped into the picture. Yet they quickly found it to be too hot of a round to handle and had it sized down to a more manageable load. Hence the 40 Caliber S&W was born. This 40 caliber round is very similar to Browning original 45 ACP round he designed in 1905. But the US military had Browning in his development of the M1911 down load the 45 ACP round to make it a bit more manageable. Now all of the sudden the FBI has gone and decided that their new 40 S&W was a bit to much as well [just as the US military thought Browning’s original 45 ACP was a bit too hot and needed taming] and decided to fall back to the anorexic 9mm parabellum [?] as opposed to just going back to the 45 ACP. Many of the police forces around the US, but not all, followed the FBI in this endeavor like a love sick puppy, to and fro. Not to mention a lot of the US citizens were being lead around this circle as well (yet again not all).
One surgeon said that during his career he never lost a patient that was shoot with a 9mm, but only saved one patient shot with a 45 ACP. Run the specs of any 9mm (.355”), 38 Special (.357”), or even the 357 Magnum (.357”) rounds through the ballistic calculator at the link below, and then compare them with the 230 grain 45 ACP round, taking note of each rounds score. And remember the higher the Momentum and KO scores the better. Also keep in mind that the Foot Pounds of Energy scale can be deceiving.
Personally, I carry a double action 45 Colt, as it is soft on recoil and hard hitting to boot. Yes, it seems that .452 seems to be the sweet spot when it comes to hand guns. Believe you me when I say "try it you'll like it". Or are you going to wait until the US military or FBI wakes up and comes to their senses first?
Any who, the Calibre .45 / 45 Colt Government round was simply the 45 Colt cases cut down in length, to fit in the 45 Schofield pistols while still working within the 45 Colt pistols, with less powder to keep them from blowing up the Schofield pistols. And the Calibre .45 / 45 Colt Government cartridge’s ballistics was what the US military had reproduced in the 45 ACP round. So the 45 Colt cartridge is the parent of the Calibre .45 / 45 Colt Government cartridges, and the grandparent (so to speak) of the 45 ACP.
The 45 Schofield's only influence was that the US military had the 45 Colt case trimmed down in length to chamber in a Schofield pistols while still being able to chamber in the 45 Colt pistols which caused the Calibre .45 / 45 Colt Government (a.k.a.- 45 short Colt) to be born. That is to say the 45 Schofield was only directly involved in the reason for shorting the 45 Colt case which made it but only indirectly involved in the 45 Auto Colt Pistols round development. In all reality, when the 45 Auto Colt Pistol and it’s rounds were being spawned the 45 Schofield had long been benched on the sideline as the Calibre .45 / 45 Colt Government was still spreading it's seed. And as all grandparents are, the 45 (Long) Colt was proud as could be, and still is to this day.
Long Live the three generations of 45 Colts (45 [long] Colt, Calibre .45 / 45 [short] Colt Government, and the 45 Auto Colt Pistol rounds) - Hallelu-Yah!
This was an excellent example of that magical threshold where hollow points either work or don't work. 933 fps you get a fail, 1000 pfs you get expansion.
It sure is!
I have tested Sellier & Bellot 45 Colt 230gr JHP on water jugs (made of paper) and a half inch of paper-notebook to simulate 'ribs' and i get about 24 inches of penetration (12 in gel?) and a expantion of 0.72".
Gun Sam and Lude69, what is your opinion on this performans?
Its Sellier & Bellot, not Magtech.
@@swedeson6188 that sounds like science that is above my pay grade. I shoot stuff more to see it get blown apart then collecting intelligent data, sorry.
Or more like an example of the ammo industries Luke warm approach to some calibers....while devoting money and time to developing others.
Same is true of the firearm industry.
Right now, companies are blowing wads of cash to crank out the next "micro 9" or "Glock killer" 9mm caliber pistol.
While devoting barely any money at all to improving already proven designs, in better than 9mm calibers.
The state of both the ammunition and firearms industry as a whole is very much akin to the 1950s and early 1960s when .38 Special was all the rage and as common as electric cook stoves in many people's homes. With companies stumbling all over themselves to get their latest .38 snub or .38 Special "police revolver" to market before their competition.
interesting test Sam, the .45 Colt gut shot was particularly impressive.
Of course, either cartridge or gun would make a great defensive tool.
So far the best ammo i've seen for the .45 Colt out of the Governor, are from Buffalo Bore. Curious to see what performance we'd get with .45 Colt from underwood ammo with your tests. That .45 ACP did really good. Great video!
The only one I tried was the maximum expansion. I don't recall if they have standard pressure. I recently tested more Buffalo Bore with the 200 gr Gold Dot. That video will come out at some point.
Use a firearm made for 45 Colt. The Governor is made for longer cartridges or 410 shotshells.
Interesting! You’d have expected them to perform nearly the same, but BIG difference. Thanks for the test.
I have a Taurus Public Defender and a Public Defender Polymer. Your video is a poster child of why I keep them both loaded with Buffalo Bore & Underwood Hard Cast wadcutters. With a big slower moving bullet, trying to get expansion out of a hollow point-even the Hornady Flex Tip, is a bridge too far in most instances.
Thank you Sam. I appreciate the videos. I carry 38spl, but I do like the 45acp.
Thanks for watching. I finally found some Gold Dot 135+P in .38 Special. Haven't tested since 2018 when I used plain water jugs.
Just another piece of evidence to support my opinion of “45/.410 handguns suck, but I still want one to play with!”
I just don't get it. I mean, rated at 920 FPS and getting 933 FPS seems like it's a good revolver in .45 Colt.
@@GunSam I have a bird’s head vaquero in 45colt with a 3.75” barrel, and a couple boxes of that ammo downstairs, which is why I clicked this video so fast haha. Maybe if I can sneak away from the house for a minute this weekend I’ll shoot some through a chrono and see what I get from a “true” 45 colt length cylinder. I imagine the two guns are darn close in size just the vaquero trades the .410 length cylinder for 1” extra barrel length.
This explains the popularity of the .45 snubbie in the past. It doesn't seem that the shorter barrel makes the .45 slug much less dangerous.
My 2 favorite calibers!!
Although I use heavier bullets, great evaluation!
S&W 4-inch 25-5 revolver and M1911A1, G21, G30S and G41
So glad I watched the outro, very good!
Reminds me lol. Every December I make a new one with the previous year's footage and the next year's date on it. Need to make a new one "Gun Sam 2024" haha.
Thanks!! 45 Colt is my fav revolver cartridge. I have some old HPSWC sitting in mine.
Always enjoy seeing the Big Boys playing.
Good video. Thanks for sharing. Take care.
Take care
Lehigh Defense Maximum Expansion.45LC/.410 220 grain Copper Hollowpoint. It’s a great carry option for the S&W Governor. The nice thing about the Governor is the ability to shoot .45 LC, .410, .45 ACP and .45 GAP.
For your future reference, speed is essential for expansion. Keep it in mind for future use
I won't keep it in mind lol. There's more to it. It's energy really, higher velocity often makes higher energy but people mistake that as a velocity only thing. If you put 500 FPE on a bullet that is real heavy going like 750 FPS with a good hollow point, it WILL expand.
I like Critical Defense ammo and have found it to be reliable. However, I think Buffalo Bore and underwood work better. Good Video here that shows that sometimes, slower is better.
Thanks. Buffalo Bore's 200 gr Gold Dot load in .45 Colt is great. Wait till that video comes out!
Do you really need expansion or a “specialty” SD round for 45 Colt, considering the size of that bullet?
The CD .45 Colt seems like a pretty solid choice for a Bond Arms derringer.
The .410/.45LC Bond combo barrels struggle to stabilize heavy bullet loads. This light for caliber 185 grain bullet is said to shoot very accurately in them though.
Also this would have lower recoil too. Even though there wasn’t much expansion, tissue damage was still surprisingly good and penetration ideal.
Just an excellent video, I love the 45s. -Gunny T sends
Interesting that this didn't even come close to touching the Buffalo Bore LSWCHP.
you should try the 45 colt with a single action pistol with a 5 inch barrel and a 255 grain bullet that is what it was designed with and where it shines. my be slower but has a good amount on energy on target
Lol the saying is "well .45 don't shrink" there certainly is some merit to that. My 9mm vs .45 Fair Test vid through 5 advanced drills goes live Sunday. And a .45 that doesn't expand has almost the same Tissue Crush as cheap 9mm HPs that barely expand uniformly especially from short barrels. When people site cheap HPs as doing well or pretty much any 147 grain that's usually from long barrels or Paul Harrells M9/92. I'll take a top 9mm HP over .45 ball but if I knew I'd have a pistol fight that day I'd carry a .45 with the mostest HPs I could be they HST or Critical Duty or Golden Saber. If I was that clairvoyant I'd bring friends w rifles and shotguns though. RIP .45 GAP
@@black_dog_barks Seals used 185 plus p...assuming golden saber...Bin Laden Raid
@@black_dog_barks I'm aware. Now you are too.
Except....lol, I ran a test I haven't released yet and the bullet hit the metal wire holding my denim and more or less split in half. I didn't go into detail in the video, but cleaning the blocks I found the two halves.
@@GunSam not understanding...other commenter deleted theirs
Very strange that the last .45 LC without mdf and no expansion had the biggest damage path in the gel!
It killed alot of men, bears, deer you name it the long colt even with black powder like originally was a 357 but bigger round
The 45 Colt with the xtp or serria jacketed hollow cavity especially would have had big results , that 45 acp load is awesome, nanna and papa wishing you well
Cylinders gas escapes before barrel, not comparable to auto,!!!
Depends on the revolver, depends on the caliber and load, bullet weight etc. Some calibers, weights and materials like copper bullets, can lose as little as 0 to 1%. Meaning instead of 1,000 FPS you would get 990 FPS on that given round. You can generally say a 5% loss is in the normal range with lighter bullets. But still, this is just 50 FPS off 1,000 FPS.
I don’t know if this would help anyone, but I have used that same 45 colt round before on a deer out of a Taurus judge with a 3 inch barrel and it actually expanded pretty well. I found it in the chest cavity while cleaning the deer and still have the expanded bullet.
The 45 ACP is an old favorite of mine. I used to carry 230gr Hydrashocks. They fed reliably. Given what the 45 Colt is, it would be interesting to see an old school lead round shot through the Governor. Not a cowboy load, something that was intended for serious use. Heck, maybe BB has some 45 Colt version of the 20C load.
Yeah I been debating it. Was going to do an "Alec Baldwin" test when I got the Governor, but decided it wasn't appropriate.
@@GunSam The Governor is a completely different gun. So it wouldn't be relevant anyway. Other people with access to Colt SAAs or clones have already thoroughly trashed Alec Baldwin's story. Also the industry has good safety protocols in place that were apparently violated on multiple levels.
@@GunSam true enough, use a Colt SAA
Dude, I wanna see that!
I may have missed it but why not use Governor as test platform for both rounds?
The ULTIMATE fair test of this ammo would be FROM THE SAME FIREARM. Ruger Redhawk fires the 45LC and 45 ACP. The ACP rounds requires a moon clips. If I had one I'd send it to you for testing purposes.
The way the 45 Colt bullets tumbled, I wonder if they just weren't being stabilized that well by the rifling.
I don't think they were. 45 Colt was originally designed to be shot out of a much longer barrel after all.
It not the 45 colt round its the firearm . You my want to try another firearm in 45 colt maybe a Ruger Blackhawk ?
But if it's rated at 920 FPS and I got 933 FPS, explain this?
@@GunSam I thought it started to key hole it seemed to do lots of damage
@@GunSam I think it would be great to compare another 45 Colt firearm. That is what 1 out of 5 rounds fired That you got a reading . I enjoy your test just cant understand that 45 colt Smith . Thanks for the tests even if some are A bit strange sometimes.
@@herbertblevins7077 I got the Governor because with ammo the way it's been, having a revolver that shoots .45 Colt, .410 was cool, and if things get really bad, at least I have something that will shoot .45 ACP in a revolver. The point was to have options and the Governor shooting a pistol round, a revolver round and a shotgun round made sense when the ammo situation was getting bad.
Makes good sense in these crazy times. Thanks again for the great videos.@@GunSam
I really like the video oh, they were both okay. I really have to agree shot placement is more important than anything. I hit on Target is still a hit on target. A lot of people forget if you hit your Target in the neck or the head. probably going to end the fight both would do very well, in that respect
Not designed for the Judge it was first used it’s 1873, single action army and
It will all so shot 44 40 or-any of those old 44 pistol lever gun rounds. Check it out!
nice test, thanks ...
Damn fine round for a .45 auto. I can hear my 1911 begging me to holster it up.
I shoot the .45 Colt through my Ruger Redhawk and use that round for self-defense. I'm not expecting expansion but a hammer doesn't need to does it? Good video though.
I like to shoot the Critical Defense ammo in my 5 inch barrel 1911 better than anything else. It just feels like the firearm operates more smoothly than with any other ammo.
There's an awesome video of guys shooting a ballistic torso 45acp vs 9mm. No doubt the 45 hits way harder lol.
If that was in super slow motion, I think I saw that one.
@@GunSam yep that's the one
Hit some water jugs with the Critical Defense 185 gr with my CA Bulldog XL. Pretty much took the jugs apart.
Self defense use the 45 colt in 410. 45colt will take a hog and 2 legged perp. 410 is for varmints, snakes and small game
I'm very surprised at the test results. I have used the same ammunition out of my glock 21 and uberti el patron and found that the 45 Colt Hornady CD ammo is more accurate than the 45 auto. And I don't think I have ever read anything about the 45 colt ammo being designed for the judge or government. If that was the case, wouldn't they have made it a little more powerful?
The revolver cylinder and the pistol chamber do NOT contribute to the speed of the bullet. The start of the forcing cone on the revolver is the start of the revolver barrel, and the start of the groves is the real start of the pistol. The pistol barrel was a bit over twice as long as the revolvers. That is why the revolver was a bit slower.
How about a comparison test with the new “30 Super Carry.”
Definitely need more fps for the 45 colt 👍🏻🇺🇸
Yeah. But at least I got over the 920 FPS rated.
For the Al Gore rhythm.
Good test. 🙂
Thanks! 👍
Ever test off the shelf 45 colt cowboy type ammo? Lead 250 grain type stuff?
Most cowboy loads are greatly down loaded to around 700-725 fps out of a 5 1/2" barrel. The original black powder loads were with 40 grains of powder with a 250 or 255 grain lead bullet at around 900-1000 fps from a single action 7.5" revolver. Pretty damn potent. From a rifle add another 250 or more fps.
@@denisdegamon8224 that's exactly why I'd like to see this load from the short barrel of the governor. Many old British Webley manstopper rounds were big slow chunks of lead with great terminal affect if you read the studies from that time.
Hmm,anemic even in long barrel,but should be ok,CD in 40 would hit 1200 from a five.Those bullets are great and even slow look good in your test,CD has a very small flash signature in 40,just a lemon size dull orange ball.
Good video. But since you had the Governor, did you think if shooting both rounds through it?
👍😊
45 FUD rounds still get it done !!
Present the objects and fire.
Starts with a 4
One day if I could afford it, starting with 5 lol. Either .500 Mag, .50 AE or 50 GI
@@GunSam Take a viewer poll & see what they say ... & ask for donations to buy the winner ! Rank choice vote = you can vote for more than 1 & rank them . Hard choice for me to do that ?? #1 9mm rifle , #2 44 Rifle , #3 S&W 45 Colt #4 Glock 19 , #5 45 Colt Rifle #6 10mm / 40cal Revolver #7 G40 10mm #8 357 Rifle I'm in for a Donation = the av donation X2
RE: 357 rifle around the house , I would load with 38+P with slow powder likely the least blast & recoil for the ft/lbs on target A total cream puff
45LC is a .452" bullet / 45ACP is a .451" bullet. In theory/in general anyway.
@@_JimS I try to never be TOO sure of myself but that's what I thought.
Yeah. But I have seen how sometimes that's not always the case. Especially for Hornady, cannot imagine them making a .452" and a .451" 185 gr FTX lol. Either identical or ran through a sizer for 45 auto. My guess.
Would it make a difference using a 45 colt +p? In the Governor Sam?
Well, yes. Because the Governor is not rated for it. More or less I think it could destroy the gun.
Would like to see the same .45acp out of the governor to see how much loss of velocity.
It's pretty standard for a 230 gr to lose about 200 FPS and if I recall, a 185 gr to lose maybe 250 FPS in the Governor.
@@GunSam Thank you for replying, that was a little more than expected but makes sense. Take care!
I could be off on the 185 gr as I didn't look back to see what I actually got IF I did any tests like that, but I do remember 230 gr ball went from something like 850 to 660 from my 5.3" Glock to the Governor.
@@GunSam I understand it's a significant loss. I was surprised by Paul Harrell's video of the lcr in 9mm, very little loss compared to the auto loader. I kind of want 1. 9mm is "cheap" with many types. Thank you for all time and effort you put into your channel! 1 of the top handful of channels I follow. Happiness and health, Sam.
R sultan in 45 ACP are good. Not impressed with 45 LC
That's been a major disgusstion 45 APC or Colt guess that prooves it reall not much difference
I use this in my 45acp and 357mag 9 mm 38 special
Kinda a bummer.. Know some old guys who love there fire breathing long colts. I'm sure way hotter then that stuff. But i like the C.D... Easy to get performs well. Most of the time.
Why didn't you just use the Governor to fire both rounds???? Using the glock just introduced extra variables.
The Governor shoots .45 ACP 200 FPS slower than the Glock....
Based on your recent testing with the FTX bullet, it doesn't seem to perform very well in the gel in most calibers. Not sure why because it worked excellent in the bologna and water jugs.....
Water expands most bullet. That's why I like using gel. If you see a lot of bullets pulled from bodies, they do look more like the gel bullets. Not great expansion.
The 45acp is expanding the same as a 9mm, it wouldn’t be my carry round.
.45 colt damage seems to juuuust edge off .45 acp this time. expansion is good but tumbling is better
Remove the red rubber piece in the hornady it will expand 🎉
Really bizarre that 90 fps can be the difference between great expansion and zilch.
@@jmichaelcarbonniere9549 I don’t know about that, most hollow points I’ve seen tested have a somewhat progressive expansion. Gold Dots seem to start expanding at around 800, but take about 900 for full expansion.
It would be fair if the cylinder on that judge was rifled. It was unfair for the colt. A 5 1/2 blackhawk would have been fair. The revolvers lose a bit out the cylinder gap....on the plastic fantastic...not so much. Should have tested both out that Governor and see to be fair.
Just about all legit ammo like Buffalo Bore, if it has a 4" barrel rating, the Governor will get that. Don't take Hornady's poor loading and blame me for dissatisfaction. Like TV dad says "It's not a competition". I never said it was. In fact, it would be ODD if a person ran this load out of anything else than a Governor or Judge as carrying single action revolvers is very very rare.
Do you know your stuff? Ammo like .45 Colt, .44 Special etc loses like 2% potential velocity out of a cylinder gap. You claim that is "a bit", but I do not personally think 19 FPS is "a bit".
@@GunSam The more fair comparison would have been for you to shoot the same rounds out the same gun not one with an advantage. That's my opinion. Just asking WHY you didn't test out the same gun. Been more fair then out a "sealed semi" vs velocity loss out that cylinder gap. That might have put the 45 acp below expansion threshold like the colt.
🙂👍
That would still suck.
A 9 mm expands as much as The Hornady, Hornady sucks in hand gun ammunition.
i just went through almost all of your .45 videos with slow motion on your slow motion and the .45s have terrible expansion. WTH?
i'm not making them not expand somehow...
@@GunSam well stop it!
@@GunSam It has to be because its such a slow round or something
Only 50 dollars for a box of 20.🤣