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Dr. Lawson Stone shares seven points we must keep in mind when encountering violence in the Old Testament.
Perfect timing! I was reading through these conflicts this morning. Thank you for your excellent post!
Wonderful! The literary context from surrounding cultures was particularly helpful! OT is tame by comparison. I like Joshua as a "liberator" of Canaan bringing peaceful order, too!
Seems like any 'win' would garner many weapons which could be used. The willingness to kill without conscience (or in Joshua's case with God's permission) would make a small number of people mighty indeed. Taking the kings heads and carrying them before your army combined with no conscience would strike deep fear in people. I can see how a small army could defeat a land. Can't you??
I thought the Exodus was in 1446 BC?
I think there are some disagreements over the chronology
@@dominicguye8058 Yes. I'm going on the statement in the OT (in Kings, I think) that the Exodus was 480 years before the beginning of Solomon's reign.
One problem with your explanation of the violence in the first testament.
People today, justify the on going violence and wars...by quoting how God approves war.
Proof? My ex girlfriend...she truly believed war and violence is justified in today's world because of quotes from the Bible.
Thanks so much for your incredible and inspiring work that is changing many lives globally
Hinduism is The Best Concept....1 :-
The sublime objective of Hinduism is to achieve union with God - the eternal spirit which is Brahman. This union is achieved not only through ritual but through common ideals of Hindu ethics: purity, self-control, detachment, truth, non-violence, charity and the deepest of compassion toward all living creatures.
Hinduism shown great capacity for absorbing ideas and adapting to conditions.
Still didn't explain why the God of Old Testament is so vindictive. This video didn't prove anything😂
Dr. Stone, I am currently watching your presentation online
Awesome series! But some of the comments…woof.
Jesus did interrupt a stoning which was based on Old Testament laws, so he was sensitive about it a certainly did not agree with it.
Good point. Even though he said he hadn't come to overthrow the old testament laws, the first chance he gets he's already showing that it's wrong.
That text has long been considered spurious.
@@Mikenlisat What rubbish!
Atheists would have a field day with that statement.
Worst cherry-picking statement I've ever read.
flimsyjimnz sorry I have no idea what you are trying to say. Would you mind elaborating? Thanks.
the man was supposed to be stoned as well. but where was the man...?? What Jesus doesn't like is hypocrisy. Jesus GAVE the Law.
Conquest and war is the same no matter what 'cultural context'.
I heard that the Canaanites would go things like burn their children alive as sacrifices among other things. Its easy to judge form a modern western perspective where we're not exposes to much violence, but we got to remember back then was a much different time and culture when violence was ect was much more than it is now.
In this video he speaks yet he says nothing.
and i suppose that i can earn a phd degree in worshiping Chester the cat.
A specific command by God to kill men, women, children, and even animals, is still a savage and brutal command, even if that command is far more restricted than biblical critics tend to recognize. Though it was not the general command for conquest, nonetheless, the command to Israeli men to perform such deeds is quite disturbing. Even if those they faced were brutal pagans who offered their children to the flames, could Israeli soldiers avoid the psychological consequences of treating such a tribe's defenseless infants in a similar, brutal manner? Moreover, even if the culture were comparatively more brutal and violent, it is unclear how that justifies the violent and brutal behavior about which we read. This really offers no helpful answer to the moral dilemma.
What could? Well, we can imagine today an infection so virulent that the destruction of affected population centers would be deemed a rational, though regrettable, method of controlling the contagion's spread. That is the stuff of science fiction, but quarantines have been used historically for that purpose. These have frequently sentenced healthy people--even children--to their deaths by forcing them to remain in a plague-ridden city or ship. Not even animals were permitted to pass the quarantine's border. People could not be released from the quarantine because their health could not be ensured. Often, the healthy later contracted the plague and died. Moreover, such quarantines have frequently failed, and the disease spread anyway. But those who enforced such quarantines, even the ones that did not work, have NOT been regarded historically as moral monsters. They have been viewed as men doing their best to prevent an even greater disaster. An explanation akin to this seems to be what is needed. With regret, God commanded what was necessary, and that command was not really about real estate or revenge.
The video makes the point that all of our lives are in God's hands. He does us no injustice by taking what He has given. True enough. But the God of life should recognize how precious that gift actually is. In fact, we rely upon His understanding as we face a secular culture, which in many ways is a culture of death. Those of us who regard abortion as taking the life of a defenseless child might argue with an opponent by asking, "If caring for a one- or two-year-old proves inconvenient or too expensive, would taking the life of such a child be morally justified?" The point is that taking the life of a young child is the same as taking the life of the fetus. The only difference is physical development. Both are equally horrific. Both are murder.
But the passages in question suggest that God disagrees with this logic. That's troubling. Nothing the video says makes it less so. Other apologists make even worse arguments. I have actually heard some say that God would have received the little ones into heaven. That would have placed them in eternal bliss, a much better result for them than they would have known in Canaan. That's a most curious reason for executing babies and the unborn. In fact, it sounds like a reason to allow modern abortions to go ahead without opposition. God will receive the unborn into heaven. Since that is a better result than being born into a culture of death, why picket an abortion clinic. Instead, send a grateful donation? Just as armed Israeli men in Canaan enforced the ban, these clinics are also doing God's work. They are saving children who, if allowed to grow up, might face a lost future. Consequently, the clinics are actually doing the unborn a favor. What rubbish!
An offensive explanation that seeks to underplay the nature of the ban provides no explanation at all. Christian scholars need to do better.
davidmx3000 When you say God called for the genocide of men, women and children (I'm assuming you're referring to 1 Samuel 15:3 with the Amalekites?), there's one thing that should be noted: Hebrew scholar Richard S Hess has observed that the Hebrew for men and women, children and small babies etc can be translated as men TO women, children TO small babies. Women and children might well have been involved, yet the Hebrew translation loosens things a bit. There are some open interpretations here. Hess also does a good video on the book of Joshua and whether he and the Israelites really committed genocide: th-cam.com/video/wI4d-6oqmNc/w-d-xo.html
One would think that the "almighty God" would command people to stop the violence instead of promoting it. He thinks he did something with this video. This video didn't explain anything. No facts were presented. This video did nothing, and I still find the Bible to be written by a bunch of constipated men. You gotta be constipated to put a bunch of violent stories together and then say God did it.
There are those who say "God commanded so and so" and others who say "I am sure they thought God commanded so and so...". Here lies the different approaches.
Awesome! Thank you.
To consider the time in which the old testament took place is irrelevant. Scripture teaches us that the standards of moral right and wrong are not arbitrary, changing, or relative to different times and places. God's law is eternal and unchanging, therefore the God portrayed then, reflects the God worshipped today. By this logic, the very logic provided in the book Christians hold to be their moral compass, there should be no question about whether or not his actions were moral. If Christians truly followed the bible morally and ethically, I can only imagine how evil of a place we would live. Concider the story of Job. Job according to God was Blameless, a man who both feared and followed God's word. He was rich, and blessed with many children, animals and servants. For nothing more than a bet between God and Satan, Job was stripped of his home and wealth, his children and cattle were slaughtered, and his complexion riddled with boils. Why do such a horrible thing to this man? Simply to settle a wager from Satan that this man would curse the name of God if it were not for his abundance of happiness and blessings. Enough said.
Seems like you clearly don't understand that the text of Job is part of the wisdom literature books. The "bet" you are speaking of isn't a real one, nor is the story of Job to be taken literally. The entire story is the culmination of the Proverbs and Ecclesiastes applied to the example of how God's wisdom works in the world. By the way, if you truly think that Christian morality hinges upon following the commands of violent or inhuman deeds, you're completely ignoring the entire message of Jesus all together. Please give me an example of a teaching that Jesus gave and how it could be conceived as an arbitrary command. I would love to talk about it.
I disagree completely with Cody Scott to deny that such things really happened is denying the power of God is simply rather than defending the truth and accepting it no matter how hard in our limited human understanding finds it to swallow, we must seek the truth out and find it wherever God has placed it, no matter what reviling of men we may see.
And pure luck, I disagree with you as well. It was not for nothing more than a bet, it was because Satan(the ultimate accuser) told God that Job was not a man true to his beliefs because he had never truly experienced difficulty, so if God was to test him, this would show his true colors.
Don't forget it wasn't God who stripped Job or hurt him, He simply allowed Satan to test Job, but not kill him. Satan did test him and stole away all his blessings and his children, not God. If you would have of taken the time to read the story in its entirety and bring to light the full truth you would see clearly that at the end when Job had proven his faithfulness to God, even though He questioned his own creator and forgot just how little he truly knew, God gave him exactly twice as much as he had lost, restored and overflowed all his fortunes and blessed him to the end of his days. That is the God I know, loving and caring, but firm and filled with measurable depths of righteousness and an unmovable desire for purity and oneness with Him. He loved Job and cared but He wanted to Job to prove where his heart was though God knew where it was if there is no action behind our faith it is dead and useless, the living God wants us to be His and His alone.
Job 42 : 10-16 10 And the Lord restored Job’s losses[a] when he prayed for his friends. Indeed the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before. 11 Then all his brothers, all his sisters, and all those who had been his acquaintances before, came to him and ate food with him in his house; and they consoled him and comforted him for all the adversity that the Lord had brought upon him. Each one gave him a piece of silver and each a ring of gold.
12 Now the Lord blessed the latter days of Job more than his beginning; for he had fourteen thousand sheep, six thousand camels, one thousand yoke of oxen, and one thousand female donkeys. 13 He also had seven sons and three daughters. 14 And he called the name of the first Jemimah, the name of the second Keziah, and the name of the third Keren-Happuch. 15 In all the land were found no women so beautiful as the daughters of Job; and their father gave them an inheritance among their brothers.
16 After this Job lived one hundred and forty years, and saw his children and grandchildren for four generations. 17 So Job died, old and full of days.
Daniel Nuzum, I used to take everything literally until I grew up.
Daniel Nuzum the resurrection literally happened. But somethings in the Bible are metaphor.
HINDUISM IS THE BEST CONCEPT :-
Hinduism has always been an environmentally sensitive philosophy. No religion, perhaps, lays as much emphasis on environmental ethics as Hinduism. The Mahabharata, Ramayana, Vedas, Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita, Puranas and Smriti contain the earliest messages for preservation of environment and ecological balance. Nature, or Earth, has never been considered a hostile element to be conquered or dominated. In fact, man is forbidden from exploiting nature. He is taught to live in harmony with nature and recognize that divinity prevails in all elements, including plants and animals. The rishis of the past have always had a great respect for nature. Theirs was not a superstitious primitive theology. They perceived that all material manifestations are a shadow of the spiritual. The Bhagavad Gita advises us not to try to change the environment, improve it, or wrestle with it. If it seems hostile at times tolerate it. Ecology is an inherent part of a spiritual world view in Hinduism.
srnp0007 srnp0007 Hinduism is best? Really? Tell me what caste I will belong to if I convert????????????????????????
Hinduism is the birth of Racism. The caste system was glorified in Europe which became the base of Nazism. According to system,humans are divided into higher status and lower status and even untouchables.Anyone whowants to familiarize with Hinduism should read Manusmriti (The book of Hindu Law)
Hinduism teaches: Bride Burning (Sati system)if a woman's husband dies, Devadasi system - where young girls are brought to temples to be used as sex slaves for the rest of their lives and called dev dasi (servant of God!),
Hinduism teaches women are lower in human and is not capable of attaining moksha. This is the main reason there is accute female infanticide in India.
Hinduism teaches rape: In Hindu stories, Gods came down to earth and took the form of woman's husband and had sex with her.
Hinduism teaches women are treacherous and cunning. All these inspite of having female deities!!!!!
Hinduism has 330 million Gods but is projected as having only one God (reason provided: "but we Hindus see God in different forms and everything". Biggest BS IMHO)
Hinduism: Bhagvat Gita teaches to kill even your own people, brothers etc if you feel they have done wrong without thinking any consequences. There is no teaching of forgiveness. This is one of the main reason there is so so much of violence and counter-violence and hatred in India. People of other countries should know this and then go and live in India for some time and will know that this is true.
Hinduism teaches orgies (kamasutra) where many husbands and wives and unmarried people come together and involve in sexual fantasies. Thanks God Central Asian muslim forces came and stopped this BS forever.
There are so many things that can be said that if anyone knows this, he/she will not even think of Hinduism.
One who reveals this to people these rightwingHindus accuse him/her that he/she does not "understand" Hinduism.That's another BS.
Despite this, the fact remains - Yahweh ordered acts of genocide. It takes a delusional or sick person to attempt to justify the invasion, butchering and mass-murder of all living things. It is Yahweh’s “scorched earth” policy. Genocide is never excusable, even by context. Moreover, the idea that Israel’s invading marauders brought peace to a land of strife is an affront to sound moral thinking. Your argument implies that Yahweh was hamstrung by circumstances, unable to rise above the fray.
I don't think that you understand the Old Testament at all. You can't apply the virtues and morals you have and understand in civilized society and inject them into an ancient culture thousands of years ago. Murder, rape, child sacrifice, etc. were all a practice of near eastern tribes, apart from the Israelite community. The Canaanites were especially cruel, and these surrounding tribes sought out this genocide you speak of without precedence for humanitarian codes or ethics. God never once condones or appreciates violence and these are exemplified in the person of Jesus. Any act that God seems to commission or advocate in unison with violence, only happens because He is working to advance humanity towards the cross. If He allows all kinds of other tribes to stomp out the advancement of His chosen people to the cross, then He has no choice but to wipe us all out again. Humanity, believe it or not, can be so far gone that they cannot be saved from themselves. It has happened before, but God ensures us that He won't let that happen again. You're free to believe what you want, but it's not God's fault violence happens in our world, it's our own fault and you know it. Stop blaming God when you have a will of your own to choose what you do, both right and wrong. If this applies to you, it applies to everyone else in history, and unfortunately, people chose to murder each other. God is the only hope we have to move on.
Brian Eldridge When you say God condoned genocide, there's a few things that should be noted:
First, a lot of the terms like 'utterly/completely destroy' were Ancient Near Eastern war rhetoric that denoted a military victory and not necessarily a full on destruction. Outside the Bible, the 2nd Millennium BC Pharaoh Thutmosis III said that the Mitanni army were 'utterly annihilated' yet there were records of survivors. Similarly the 9th Century BC Mesha king of Moab said that 'Israel has utterly perished for always' yet the nation of Israel lived another century. And sure enough, when we read the Old Testament there are records of survivors - Judges 3:5 says the Israelites were living with the Canaanites and all the pagan nations.
Second, while there are mentions of destroying the Canaanites, it also talks about 'driving/forcing out' the nations which isn't the same as killing them (eg. Exodus 23:28, Leviticus 20:23). In fact if you read the whole Bible, there are at least 27 mentions of killing the Canaanites compared to at least 70 mentions of forcing out nations. The way I understand this: God was clearly more concerned about displacing the nations of their land rather than destroying them. It would only be those who stubbornly stayed behind or the military units who'd be destroyed and not the entire nations.
Third, Hebrew scholar Richard S Hess has observed that the Hebrew for men and women, children and small babies etc can be translated as men TO women, children TO small babies. Women and children might well have been involved, but not necessarily. The Hebrew loosens the translation and there are some open interpretations here. Hess also does a good video on the book of Joshua and whether he and the Israelites really committed genocide: th-cam.com/video/wI4d-6oqmNc/w-d-xo.html
Oh boy... *face palm*
#1 Jesus didn't call the violence in the new testament into question? That doesn't justify old testament judgement, it's calls someone else's judgement into question.
#2 The fact that many diverse populations lived in the Canaan (if that really was the case) does not make it a no man's land. It makes it a land of many men (and women) and not ways justifies the crimes against humanity depicted in the Bible.
#3 There is not historical evidence for the slavery and Exodus out of Egypt. If fact such an event should have left a significant record but such a record didn't exist. And the European settler's genocide against the native inhabitants was not moral.
#4 How's the supposed fact that Egypt at times controlled the people leaving in the land justify wiping them out? Killing all of them, even the women and new born babies? Killing children is not justice now and it wasn't then. And again, there is little evidence of the slavery you speak of. Besides slavery is OK with the old testament god. Peace? Did you read the old testament????
#5 The Israelites were underserving but god helped them kill the oppressed people described in #4. How generous and very fair of god.
#6 Notice the god of Israelites is only war like when the Israelites wanted land, otherwise such a peaceful fellow .... well unless you ate shell fish or committed adultery, then a little violent rock throwing was in order.
#7 So the god of the old testament was violent like the rest of the humans at the time so it can be excused because morality is relative to the time, right?
Stop trying so hard to justify your beliefs and take some to to seriously question them. Don't be so proud and cocky. After all the only way to progress is to question your most deeply held beliefs.
What's the foundation of morality?
Hopeless video. Fails completely to address the issue.
Hinduism is The Best Concept -2 :
Hinduism does not seek converts. No forceful or violent conversion, no religious wars with Christians, Jews, Jains, Sikhs, Buddhists, atheists occurred until Islam came to India . You can become Hindu by your own free will by accepting Bhagavad-Gita, essence of Vedas spoken by Lord Krishna as a final authority
Sounds like you're witnessing to seek converts to me. Sounds like you also have a beef with Muslims. Christians don't believe that union with God in your perspective is something to be achieved, nor accessed by their own works. Only Jesus is enough to reconcile humanity to have a relationship with God again. Believe what you want, you're free to do so, but don't pretend like Hinduism isn't selling the same message as other religions.
Not seeking converts is good? That seems like a defect. If Hinduism were true, wouldn’t you agree it would benefit everyone if they were Hindu? They’d have the fullness of the truth and know how to live life and wouldn’t be lost. Why hide such a precious truth?
If we tossed out the old testament or at least relegated it to a special status as 'additional reading', then we wouldn't have the problems he mentioned. It really isn't very necessary to an understanding of Christianity.
Kevin Carter That's awesome that someone else had the same idea 1900 years ago. What a pity that Christianity didn't go in that direction as it certainly makes more sense to focus on the New Testament.
Peter Piper, the Old Testament is essential to understanding the New Testament, because you cannot understand what Jesus did in the New Testament without first understanding what happened in the Old Testament.
The Old Testament tells of how God created a perfect world, how God created the first two people - Adam and Eve - how God placed them in the Garden of Eden to care for his creation, and how evil came into the world through Adam and Eve's disobedience and rebellion against God. The rest of the Old Testament describes how God began his work of bringing a rebellious humanity back into a right relationship with himself.
Only when you comprehend this backdrop of human rebelliousness and God's gracious work in the Old Testament can you understand why Jesus came to Earth, and what he did for us on the Cross. Even the Gospel writers quoted the Old Testament extensively, testifying to their belief that understanding the Old Testament is essential to understanding the person and work of Jesus Christ.
Derek Atkins Well I'm not saying 'toss it out altogether', but I think only those books which are essential to understanding the New Testament need to be retained.
Hinduism is The Best Concept ...3.
According to Hinduism, there are different paths to reach God, just like there are many ways to reach the top of the mountain. As you go higher, differences between them are reduced. Anyone who believes that his is the only way to reach God is full of ignorance just like a frog in a well unable to comprehend the outside world. Bhagavad-Gita suggests the following Yogas to reach God: Knowledge, Devotion, Meditation, and Karma.
"Anyone who believes that his is the only way to reach God is full of ignorance ..... Hinduism is The Best Concept" Tut tut.
not helpful at all
Hinduism is The Best Concept ..4.
Vedas means knowledge. It is not only religious rituals with chanting of hymns, but it includes philosophy, astronomy, mathematics, medicine, and grammar. When philosophy is the origin of religion, it permits freedom of speech and thought, and acknowledges Atheism. Just like democracy, Hinduism accepts Atheists as equal citizens.
srnp0007 Hinduism is best? Really? Tell me what caste I will belong to if I convert????????????????????????
Hinduism is the birth of Racism. The caste system was glorified in Europe which became the base of Nazism. According to system,humans are divided into higher status and lower status and even untouchables.Anyone whowants to familiarize with Hinduism should read Manusmriti (The book of Hindu Law)
Hinduism teaches: Bride Burning (Sati system)if a woman's husband dies, Devadasi system - where young girls are brought to temples to be used as sex slaves for the rest of their lives and called dev dasi (servant of God!),
Hinduism teaches women are lower in human and is not capable of attaining moksha. This is the main reason there is accute female infanticide in India.
Hinduism teaches rape: In Hindu stories, Gods came down to earth and took the form of woman's husband and had sex with her.
Hinduism teaches women are treacherous and cunning. All these inspite of having female deities!!!!!
Hinduism has 330 million Gods but is projected as having only one God (reason provided: "but we Hindus see God in different forms and everything". Biggest BS IMHO)
Hinduism: Bhagvat Gita teaches to kill even your own people, brothers etc if you feel they have done wrong without thinking any consequences. There is no teaching of forgiveness. This is one of the main reason there is so so much of violence and counter-violence and hatred in India. People of other countries should know this and then go and live in India for some time and will know that this is true.
Hinduism teaches orgies (kamasutra) where many husbands and wives and unmarried people come together and involve in sexual fantasies. Thanks God Central Asian muslim forces came and stopped this BS forever.
There are so many things that can be said that if anyone knows this, he/she will not even think of Hinduism.
One who reveals this to people these rightwingHindus accuse him/her that he/she does not "understand" Hinduism.That's another BS.
Quantum :-
There is No Cast System in Hindu Religion !
srnp0007 HAHAHAHA.................................................. Ok Varna Vyavastha.
Now you are happy.
Thank God you said only "no caste system" and did not deny other issues I raised. I hoped you were shamelessly gonna deny whatever I raised even though the Internet is full of evidence of these.
Quantum :-
What is "Varna" ?
Do You Know ?
Raise The issues One By One !
You Will Get Perfect Reply From Me !
Ready ?
srnp0007 The start of Hindu deception.
Hinduism is The Best Concept ...5.
According to Hindu philosophy there is one GOD, an eternal, formless, supreme, all pervading spirit. Observed multiplicity in the Universe is just like the waves in the ocean - they come and go. Waves are nothing but sea water which is the only essence, just as the supreme spirit is the only essence (the underlying reality). As a Hindu, one is free to worship a formless GOD in any form and name one wish. As you progress spiritually, you will realize the absolute invisible all pervading supreme spirit. No one is between you and GOD. Religion and the holy man just give you the direction, but they are not the end. This assures individual freedom and discourages dictatorial control with its abuse.
srnp0007 srnp0007 Hinduism is best? Really? Tell me what caste I will belong to if I convert????????????????????????
Hinduism is the birth of Racism. The caste system was glorified in Europe which became the base of Nazism. According to system,humans are divided into higher status and lower status and even untouchables.Anyone whowants to familiarize with Hinduism should read Manusmriti (The book of Hindu Law)
Hinduism teaches: Bride Burning (Sati system)if a woman's husband dies, Devadasi system - where young girls are brought to temples to be used as sex slaves for the rest of their lives and called dev dasi (servant of God!),
Hinduism teaches women are lower in human and is not capable of attaining moksha. This is the main reason there is accute female infanticide in India.
Hinduism teaches rape: In Hindu stories, Gods came down to earth and took the form of woman's husband and had sex with her.
Hinduism teaches women are treacherous and cunning. All these inspite of having female deities!!!!!
Hinduism has 330 million Gods but is projected as having only one God (reason provided: "but we Hindus see God in different forms and everything". Biggest BS IMHO)
Hinduism: Bhagvat Gita teaches to kill even your own people, brothers etc if you feel they have done wrong without thinking any consequences. There is no teaching of forgiveness. This is one of the main reason there is so so much of violence and counter-violence and hatred in India. People of other countries should know this and then go and live in India for some time and will know that this is true.
Hinduism teaches orgies (kamasutra) where many husbands and wives and unmarried people come together and involve in sexual fantasies. Thanks God Central Asian muslim forces came and stopped this BS forever.
There are so many things that can be said that if anyone knows this, he/she will not even think of Hinduism.
One who reveals this to people these rightwingHindus accuse him/her that he/she does not "understand" Hinduism.That's another BS.
Quantum :-
No Cast System in Hinduism !
This guy is a real bible thumper. He gives no historical sources to his explanations. What kind of scholarly approach is that? Please quote scholarly resources, not BS.
+chip67art its a 7 minute video. How do you expect him to throw every bit of information up there in 7 minutes? He's a Phd from Yale, and if you want a thoroughly academic expression as apposed to a brief overview in a 7 minute video, do the work of research instead of giving a reactionary comment:
www.amazon.com/Joshua-Judges-Cornerstone-Biblical-Commentary/dp/0842334297/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1449719347&sr=8-1&keywords=Lawson+Stone