Your explanation of comfort for the animal makes perfect sense. I'm seriously considering pack goats for hiking and appreciate all your helpful information. The best saddle might be somewhat expensive, however, I spend $200 plus for my footwear and have a $350 backpack so I won't hesitate to make my hard working goats comfortable to. Thanks and subd
Hello im in Ireland where I see many wild goats.. what a great idea, id be really up for learning and having a herd to use here as pack animals, now.. I dont hunt but I do a lot of walking and hiking.. what a fabulous channel.. ive watched about 10 videos so far.. !!
Really awesome video. I've been training dressage horses most of my adult life, so I absolutely understand the importance of saddle fit. I'm just about to start work training my first pack goat. It is good to know that many saddle fitting issues associated with horses and ponies can be transitioned to my goats.
Hope it helps! There's an article on packgoats.com to accompany this video you can find here: packgoats.com/picking-a-pack-goat-saddle/ The main point to consider regardless of what saddle you buy from where is to factor your budget last to avoid compromising your investment!
I used to cut horse saddles out of sitka spruce billets on a cnc machine. There were no straight lines on the bars as it was a gasket between riders thighs and the horses rib cage. The sit bones on a human are about 3 and a half to six inches depending on sex so the gap was wide enough to avoid the horses spine. The custom way of doing it was to just lay the billet on the horses back when it was sweaty and take a draw knife to shave off the moist bits and then retry it until it fit right over the back, with a gap between the bars to not put pressure on the bones of the spine and a flare at the front so that it did not contact the end of the scapula. As a first approximation, the front of the saddle was about 45 degrees and the back at about 105 degrees dependent on the type of horse or mule and the state of fitness. Nowadays you could use a side grinder to fit it quicker with an oriented strand carving head. Your goats look to me to have a relatively short back, with less scoop than a horse more like a mule, but the ends of the bars would have a bit of twist to them depending on the breed of goat you were fitting. As long as the ends don't dig in the wood could wear in like a wooden shoe if you use a good blanket but it should be carefully shaped to follow the curves of the back although for a pack saddle the top can be left flat to make the bridges easier to fit. You can also fit a wooden pack frame to a human but you can just throw a bucket of water over them to get the wetness on the boards. And humans don't walk on their forepaws, so avoiding the scapulae is less important and normally humans have the bars placed a bit farther from the spine since no one is going to ride them.
I’ve got me some Nigerian dwarf gots that I’m going to make into pack goats. Not because I want them to work hard and haul a ton. But because I got them as bottle babies mainly to eat… but they became my buddies and now just follow me everywhere! So we might as well just go hiking, dove hunting, and just have fun together.
Hi Marc. Huge fan here. Just wanted to drop a little piece of knowledge from my grandpa and my mom that’s been passed down. Grandpa used saddles that he made the trees himself and took the trees to the saddle shop and had our saddler make the rest to grandpa’s specs. every saddle was hooked up to hemp rope harness he tied and it would all be rigged to a single log. He used goats to pull logs out of the forest and back to the barn in a straight line as possible. His goats were way smaller than your goats. He used small strong cocky little wethers he claimed they were more indestructible. His lead goat was actually a doe believe it or not, but he used his buck too. Trust me the logs do not look like the logs mule teams pull. Definitely not in the same league as mules. But you would be surprised what they can do when rigged up correctly and the log fat end on the log sled. Anyways, grandpa always got on to us (mom too) for not tightening up girth’s enough. We worked our goats about 4 hrs and then call it a day or sometimes go for a couple/few more hrs. Then those goats need me day off. If they got worked all day, Anyways yeah he always taught us that a goat will make it twice as long with a tight but not too-tight girth. He taught us they feel more secure and spook less easy and that they breath real good with a tight girth and he always taught us that hooking up their harnesses and girth’s nice and snug. He had custom saddles and custom harnesses that were made out of leather and connected with hemp rope he rigged up. I would give anything to have his tack. It all dry rotted and was thrown away in the late 90s. But my aunt got a lot of the dry1rotted tack and she uses it for decoration at her shop in Linville NC. I know you like to double-beat up theories and really get to the bottom. I would be amazed to learn any of my grandpa’s old world knowledge about tack and tacking up goats was wrong (a least the stuff he was always very serious about). He claimed that loose girth’s cause injuries and soreness and harness sores. He tightened up girth’s until you could barely slide a couple/few fingers under the girth but no “air”. Just a thought buddy. His goats were always happy and they listened to voice commands. He did everything with love until it was time to give up on a wether and then it was packed at the packers and his destination was the grill. Rough. He gave up on very few goats. 90% worked out. His goats were small but they were pullers. People don’t realize how much they can pull. I know 100% milk goats prob can’t pull like his little meat/milk mutt hybrid goats. But i bet they can all pull pretty good. Mom used to take her little cart out she built from a pony cart (she was also a pipe fitter and welder in the 70s and 80s) and that cart was a load of fun. You could load it down with 3 ppl and everyone thought we were abusing the goats but they didn’t know what they were talking about those goats were always happy and healthy and sound. 3 goats can haul 600 pounds easy for a long tim on relatively flat ground with a nice little cart to pull. But you won’t get there super fast like you would with a pony or mule. But you will last a go further. Sorry for rambling. Just wanted to share grandpa’s policies on girth tightness. He never put a saddle or harness on a goat that wasn’t built for that goat unless it was the exact same build/conformation. But he always tightened up girth’s until they were pretty darn tight. Take care and bless you for what you are doing sir. Keep up the good work guys like me will do anything we can to help you sir.
by the way grandpa’s last name was Sadler with one D. We come from settler stock. Grandpa didn’t buy hardly anything we couldn’t make: He never bought a nail that could be forged or a brick that could be fired, Every structure on the property was made, milled, or otherwise created there on the property. 200 acres turned into a farm with no gasoline tools. Just crosscut saws and NC bushaxes and draw knives and the whole 9. The barn had 4 stalls converted to woodworking stall, forge, etc. Grandpa forgot more than i will ever know. He could tell you the weather out a couple days from studying his goats and his geese.
Of course, it wasn’t 200 acres the first day. He slowly added to his property over a 30 year period he bought as much as he could and grew the farm. Some of the 200 acres he added were already cleared btw...just to be clear and not mislead anybody.
Our nubians didn’t get worked. Only milked. They were super sweet good goats. But they were not the kind grandpa would work. Grandma called them Heidi goats. Good for milking but not for working. He would not work a goat with a sway back either. Only straight back. sway back and you better hope you were a good goat to earn retirement or you will get packed at the packers.
little goats are real good for pulling. strong and stocky like 80 pound goats probably? maybe 90 pounds? plenty big but not nearly as tall as our nubians. He said never to buy a pure bred to work. they gotta be mutt goats to work good and not get ruined up in no time.
I agree with your grandpa that they need to be tight enough not to move because movement causes the sores. These just do not need to be tight not to move (cause they fit like his did) and they are caring weight centered on top, not pulling which carries differently. I think your grandpa sounds amazing and correct for what he is doing and I"m so glad you took the time to share...what fun. Cheers.
Just an idea, but with you soft pack couldn't you add a harnes to it that goes around their back end and the front to help take the pressure off the clasp that goes around their belly. If you had a belt that clasp aroun their hind end and one that went around the front then it would counter the saddle and keep it from spinning. Just a thought. OR designing an adjustable harness for their chest added to the saddle to keep it from spinning. Maybe this helps? Maybe not?
It has both a britchen and a breast strap. So those already exist on the current design. The spinning effect comes from loads being unbalanced or rough terrain and are only bettered by cinch pressure or "rigid fit". The adult soft saddle is designed for light loads, terrain and use. So less cost for someone who needs to use a saddle less rigorously. The fix is to step up to some of our better more robust designs.
Great video Marc. I need to place another order! I also want to pick your brain about the large rumen you had mentioned. I have one buck that is always just fat... I need to get him to a vet but, just not sure if some goats just eat everything and they look super big or if it is worms or something else.
I have 2 Nigerian dwarf goats, how much weight can they carry and how long should I wait to put weight on them, also is it a dumb idea to have them for hunting companions?
To go along with Wyatt's question. I'm getting a boer goat. At about the same time as my alpines this spring. Would it be mean to try and make him tag along during pack trips? Or should i make him pack a bit?.
Your explanation of comfort for the animal makes perfect sense. I'm seriously considering pack goats for hiking and appreciate all your helpful information. The best saddle might be somewhat expensive, however, I spend $200 plus for my footwear and have a $350 backpack so I won't hesitate to make my hard working goats comfortable to. Thanks and subd
Cheers. Yup the saddle is about the same price as a good pair of boots or a backpack.
Hello im in Ireland where I see many wild goats.. what a great idea, id be really up for learning and having a herd to use here as pack animals, now.. I dont hunt but I do a lot of walking and hiking.. what a fabulous channel.. ive watched about 10 videos so far.. !!
Thank You! Hope you find packgoats.com helpful in your adventures. Cheers!
@@PackGoatscom hiya... what a great job you are doing, your channel is very helpful..
Really awesome video. I've been training dressage horses most of my adult life, so I absolutely understand the importance of saddle fit. I'm just about to start work training my first pack goat. It is good to know that many saddle fitting issues associated with horses and ponies can be transitioned to my goats.
Excellent video and excellent explanation. This definitely gave me more to think about with getting Buddy a saddle.
Hope it helps! There's an article on packgoats.com to accompany this video you can find here: packgoats.com/picking-a-pack-goat-saddle/
The main point to consider regardless of what saddle you buy from where is to factor your budget last to avoid compromising your investment!
I used to cut horse saddles out of sitka spruce billets on a cnc machine. There were no straight lines on the bars as it was a gasket between riders thighs and the horses rib cage. The sit bones on a human are about 3 and a half to six inches depending on sex so the gap was wide enough to avoid the horses spine. The custom way of doing it was to just lay the billet on the horses back when it was sweaty and take a draw knife to shave off the moist bits and then retry it until it fit right over the back, with a gap between the bars to not put pressure on the bones of the spine and a flare at the front so that it did not contact the end of the scapula. As a first approximation, the front of the saddle was about 45 degrees and the back at about 105 degrees dependent on the type of horse or mule and the state of fitness. Nowadays you could use a side grinder to fit it quicker with an oriented strand carving head. Your goats look to me to have a relatively short back, with less scoop than a horse more like a mule, but the ends of the bars would have a bit of twist to them depending on the breed of goat you were fitting. As long as the ends don't dig in the wood could wear in like a wooden shoe if you use a good blanket but it should be carefully shaped to follow the curves of the back although for a pack saddle the top can be left flat to make the bridges easier to fit. You can also fit a wooden pack frame to a human but you can just throw a bucket of water over them to get the wetness on the boards. And humans don't walk on their forepaws, so avoiding the scapulae is less important and normally humans have the bars placed a bit farther from the spine since no one is going to ride them.
I’ve got me some Nigerian dwarf gots that I’m going to make into pack goats. Not because I want them to work hard and haul a ton. But because I got them as bottle babies mainly to eat… but they became my buddies and now just follow me everywhere! So we might as well just go hiking, dove hunting, and just have fun together.
How much do you really think they can pack?
Hi Marc. Huge fan here. Just wanted to drop a little piece of knowledge from my grandpa and my mom that’s been passed down. Grandpa used saddles that he made the trees himself and took the trees to the saddle shop and had our saddler make the rest to grandpa’s specs. every saddle was hooked up to hemp rope harness he tied and it would all be rigged to a single log. He used goats to pull logs out of the forest and back to the barn in a straight line as possible. His goats were way smaller than your goats. He used small strong cocky little wethers he claimed they were more indestructible. His lead goat was actually a doe believe it or not, but he used his buck too. Trust me the logs do not look like the logs mule teams pull. Definitely not in the same league as mules. But you would be surprised what they can do when rigged up correctly and the log fat end on the log sled. Anyways, grandpa always got on to us (mom too) for not tightening up girth’s enough. We worked our goats about 4 hrs and then call it a day or sometimes go for a couple/few more hrs. Then those goats need me day off. If they got worked all day, Anyways yeah he always taught us that a goat will make it twice as long with a tight but not too-tight girth. He taught us they feel more secure and spook less easy and that they breath real good with a tight girth and he always taught us that hooking up their harnesses and girth’s nice and snug. He had custom saddles and custom harnesses that were made out of leather and connected with hemp rope he rigged up. I would give anything to have his tack. It all dry rotted and was thrown away in the late 90s. But my aunt got a lot of the dry1rotted tack and she uses it for decoration at her shop in Linville NC. I know you like to double-beat up theories and really get to the bottom. I would be amazed to learn any of my grandpa’s old world knowledge about tack and tacking up goats was wrong (a least the stuff he was always very serious about). He claimed that loose girth’s cause injuries and soreness and harness sores. He tightened up girth’s until you could barely slide a couple/few fingers under the girth but no “air”. Just a thought buddy. His goats were always happy and they listened to voice commands. He did everything with love until it was time to give up on a wether and then it was packed at the packers and his destination was the grill. Rough. He gave up on very few goats. 90% worked out. His goats were small but they were pullers. People don’t realize how much they can pull. I know 100% milk goats prob can’t pull like his little meat/milk mutt hybrid goats. But i bet they can all pull pretty good. Mom used to take her little cart out she built from a pony cart (she was also a pipe fitter and welder in the 70s and 80s) and that cart was a load of fun. You could load it down with 3 ppl and everyone thought we were abusing the goats but they didn’t know what they were talking about those goats were always happy and healthy and sound. 3 goats can haul 600 pounds easy for a long tim on relatively flat ground with a nice little cart to pull. But you won’t get there super fast like you would with a pony or mule. But you will last a go further. Sorry for rambling. Just wanted to share grandpa’s policies on girth tightness. He never put a saddle or harness on a goat that wasn’t built for that goat unless it was the exact same build/conformation. But he always tightened up girth’s until they were pretty darn tight. Take care and bless you for what you are doing sir. Keep up the good work guys like me will do anything we can to help you sir.
by the way grandpa’s last name was Sadler with one D. We come from settler stock. Grandpa didn’t buy hardly anything we couldn’t make: He never bought a nail that could be forged or a brick that could be fired, Every structure on the property was made, milled, or otherwise created there on the property. 200 acres turned into a farm with no gasoline tools. Just crosscut saws and NC bushaxes and draw knives and the whole 9. The barn had 4 stalls converted to woodworking stall, forge, etc. Grandpa forgot more than i will ever know. He could tell you the weather out a couple days from studying his goats and his geese.
Of course, it wasn’t 200 acres the first day. He slowly added to his property over a 30 year period he bought as much as he could and grew the farm. Some of the 200 acres he added were already cleared btw...just to be clear and not mislead anybody.
Our nubians didn’t get worked. Only milked. They were super sweet good goats. But they were not the kind grandpa would work. Grandma called them Heidi goats. Good for milking but not for working. He would not work a goat with a sway back either. Only straight back. sway back and you better hope you were a good goat to earn retirement or you will get packed at the packers.
little goats are real good for pulling. strong and stocky like 80 pound goats probably? maybe 90 pounds? plenty big but not nearly as tall as our nubians. He said never to buy a pure bred to work. they gotta be mutt goats to work good and not get ruined up in no time.
I agree with your grandpa that they need to be tight enough not to move because movement causes the sores. These just do not need to be tight not to move (cause they fit like his did) and they are caring weight centered on top, not pulling which carries differently. I think your grandpa sounds amazing and correct for what he is doing and I"m so glad you took the time to share...what fun. Cheers.
Muito bom , parabéns pelo trabalho!
How much are those fully adjustable saddles? Where do i go to buy those?
Just an idea, but with you soft pack couldn't you add a harnes to it that goes around their back end and the front to help take the pressure off the clasp that goes around their belly. If you had a belt that clasp aroun their hind end and one that went around the front then it would counter the saddle and keep it from spinning. Just a thought. OR designing an adjustable harness for their chest added to the saddle to keep it from spinning. Maybe this helps? Maybe not?
It has both a britchen and a breast strap. So those already exist on the current design. The spinning effect comes from loads being unbalanced or rough terrain and are only bettered by cinch pressure or "rigid fit". The adult soft saddle is designed for light loads, terrain and use. So less cost for someone who needs to use a saddle less rigorously. The fix is to step up to some of our better more robust designs.
Great video Marc. I need to place another order! I also want to pick your brain about the large rumen you had mentioned. I have one buck that is always just fat... I need to get him to a vet but, just not sure if some goats just eat everything and they look super big or if it is worms or something else.
Hope you’re goat was ok in the end
How do I order the adjustable size saddle?
Shelley Dawn Pilcher packgoats.com/product/pack-goat-saddle-marc-warnke-signature-series/ It’s on packgoats.com
The word is "development".
I have 2 Nigerian dwarf goats, how much weight can they carry and how long should I wait to put weight on them, also is it a dumb idea to have them for hunting companions?
Wyatt Payne they can carry 25% at 4 years old. No you aren’t dumb they just can’t carry a lot.
To go along with Wyatt's question. I'm getting a boer goat. At about the same time as my alpines this spring. Would it be mean to try and make him tag along during pack trips? Or should i make him pack a bit?.
I would be scared for their safety... Apart from that, I also thought to get one or 2 in addition to my Oberhaslis :D
@@jeffallen62 As if the goats would care... But it would be a cool experiment, so I would try have him pack something! Maybe snacks?
@@leaflet1686 I opted out of getting the boer goat. My alpines are frigen athletes. Realizing they are very good at parkour.
Too bad I couldn't get a goat to carry my 105lb 5.1" frame lol on reins. Save on gas, or as EMP proof transport. Lol