The Truth about Cranky Kong, Donkey Kong, and Donkey Kong Jr.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 พ.ค. 2024
- The Kongs have a rather complex family dynamic that needs to be sorted out. You'll find all the answers to that here as I explain the Donkey Kong family tree. It may or may not be as complicated as you think...
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At 1:30 I made a mistake. I said Cranky never called DK his grandson until DKC 2. I forgot he called him his grandson in the DKC manual. For that entire line I though I said "in-game" which would have made the statement valid. My bad.
I refuse to live in a world where DK Jr has been retconned out of existence!
Don't worry, he isn't.
There's a couple important things to note here.
Donkey Kong Jr actually has both a child AND adult design. His adult design was used in Super Mario Kart and Mario's Tennis for the Virtual Boy. He's significantly larger than his child design (just as big as modern DK, if not bigger), he's got a full set of teeth, and he even has sideburns.
Cranky Kong went from adult to old man pretty hecking quick. And even Tiny Kong went from child to adult in a very small period of time. The conclusion to make from this is that Kongs do indeed age really fast. The current Donkey Kong could very well only be 5 years old, like you joked. DK could've matured into adulthood after just a year or two of living.
I absolutely agree with the claim that "kongs live most of their life in their prime." Cranky was probably near the end of his prime when he had Jr.
And just a few years later he greatly deteriorated.
Nintendo has been pretty firm in the description that Cranky is DK's grandfather since... well, forever. The one official time that Cranky was DK's dad was DK64. But ever since then, he's always been referred to as DK's grandpa. The Movie is the first time he's been depicted differently since then, and I do think that's just to simplify things. DK's father issues were supposed to mirror Mario's.
Even though Cranky calls DK his son in DK64, the Japanese localization changes it to grandson instead. It's possible people like Leigh at Rare were trying to retcon Cranky into being his father, but Nintendo shut them down and ignored that.
DK being Mario's pet is actually not as outdated as you'd think. In an interview for Donkey Kong (1994), Miyamoto talks about the game's plot with some of the other developers for the game. He claims that DK is Mario's pet, and that he's messing with him by kidnapping Pauline. You're absolutely right about people's perceptions of this being off though.
The Mario & DK pet dynamic honestly is probably closer to a Scooby Doo situation, where one is an animal but they're really more like roommates.
In DK Circus, Mario isn't even stated to be the owner of the circus. He doesn't throw any of the stuff DK is juggling, and all he does is just laugh at his performance. Seems more like Mario is just there to enjoy the show, and he's not actually the abuser people think he is.
Him caging DK was in retaliation for the chaos he caused in the Arcade game. The jungle Mario captures him in is actually a forest nearby the city, as shown in Donkey Kong (1994), which has a re-creation of one of the DK Jr levels in the background. Mario is definitely acting rash, but he's doing what he deems to be right in that moment, which is bringing DK to justice for the havoc he caused.
I don't think it's fair to completely discount DK Jr as "probably not happening anymore," although I get the reasoning behind that decision.
Baby DK is really the only real issue. Because obviously DK can't be a baby at the same time as Mario. The only plausible explanation I've seen is that DK was kidnapped from a different time period. Kamek & Bowser traveled back from the future, so it's entirely possible they picked up Baby DK on the way. We know the stars fell in the time period of Baby Mario, but it's possible DK's star just lay hidden in the Jungle floor for years until he was born and found it. Baby Yoshi was born after the events of the game, and he still got a star. So Baby DK could've been born later too.
It's definitely a stretch, but you're gonna have to stretch regardless because the devs were idiots who didn't realize how messed up Baby DK was. The whole plot of the game is idiotic with all the star children stuff which just doesn't make any sense and contradicts loads of stuff in the future.
Anyway, it was interesting to hear all your thoughts on the matter. I think people act pretty stupid when it comes to the debate, and they just say things that they prefer instead of trying to say things that make sense. So many people like the idea of DK Jr being the younger form of modern DK because they just think it's cool.
I really liked the segments calling out the "Baby Cranky" nonsense and Bowser's age from the Parental Controls video. I can't believe anyone is stupid enough to believe those are their canon birthyears. It's just crazy.
Ah nice to see someone else who understands the lore, only difference is your comment is loner than the one I made and includes and lacks stuff. Also, that interview where Donkey Kong is called Mario's pet. Do you know where I can find that? I've been trying to find it.
You will perfect your flow and when you do you will be nigh unstoppable...
To me the current DK is a grown up Jr and Cranky is his father
So Donkey Kong Junior is indeed a character canon to the Mario World and the father of Donkey Kong the Third. Cranky Kong is the Donkey Kong Senior. In multiple sources from Nintendo such as in game information, in manuals, and more it is established that Cranky Kong is DK the 3rd's grandfather. DK64 having Cranky called DK the 3rd his son was a mistake, hence the comment. As for the Movieverse, Cranky being DK's son in it was more than likely there to make Mario and DK have something they can relate to each other over. Regardless the Movieverse just like the SuperShow and Mario + Rabbids games, have no effect on the Main Canon of Mario Tales. Unlike what many people believe the "spin-off games" like Mario Kart, Mario Party, and other Sports games are actually canon to the Gameverse. Many games reference the events, elements, locations, and lore from these games. As for the 7 Star Children, there is nothing about the Star Spirits that hid inside of them when hiding from Bowser having to stay there. But let's say they did, a possible hypothesis is that the star spirit goes the next generation afterwards. For example Bowser Junior would be the new Star Child in place of his father. That aside the Baby DK is left ambiguous on which DK they exactly are. Another thing to note is Kongs canonically have been shown to age rapidly with a short amount of time. Cranky Kong between games, Tiny Kong, and Donkey Kong Junior. While you might have forgotten about Tiny Kong aging rapidly, you might be questioning DK Junior. Well if you pay attention to some of the games you can actually see DK Junior growing up. In Super Mario Kart DK Junior is fully grown. A little attention to detail people miss over right there. Also, the quote is "they are LIKE a troop of actors or one big family" This is a simile, and doesn't mean they are actors.
I don't understand why you haven't stated the obvious: Cranky Kong and Donkey Kong are the same character, but from separate timelines that split apart but then came back together. In the timeline where Donkey Kong Jr. fails to save his papa, evil Mario banishes Donkey Kong Sr. to an alternate dimension, where he stays for decades before finally finding his way back home, only to end up at the beginning of the timeline where Donkey Kong Jr. is successful and saves Donkey Kong Sr. while also showing Mario the error of his ways and leading him to become a hero to atone for his mistreatment of Donkey Kong Sr. He then attempts to guide his old self to proper stardom by endlessly repeating hints from the first world of DKC. Donkey Kong Jr., meanwhile, is still a kid -- Donkey Kong had his first marriage early, since apes mature faster than humans, but time doesn't pass in the Mario universe the way it does in real life -- which is why he only shows up occasionally. Mario and Donkey Kong are naturally around the same age, but the time-shifted version of Donkey Kong is naturally several decades older due to the dimensional banishment.
Duh!
Also also the grandson mention was in donkey Kong country 1 manual
It's mentioned in a variety of media from Nintendo, it's what they intend.
I like the in universe theory that DK Junior grew up to be Fedora Kong and than disappeared/got killed in a Kremling war and Baby Donkey Kong is a 3rd or the one we know. Outside theory? Koopa kid has been replaced with Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings are no longer Bowser's children because Nintendo decided it that way. Remember Mario was once described as a Middle-aged man neither handsome nor heroic and Myamoto made him into the lovable 24 year old we know today. So there you go. If Mario is the same and Koopa kid got replaced and nixed so too did DK Jr. As far as his cameos go? They're non cannon, but if not than it involves time travel. Mario and Luigi: PIT and Yoshi's Island DS help explain why baby Mario Bros and DK Jr. race go karts on weekends.🏁 Oh, and Galaxy, also explains time travel stuff with Rosalina creating a brand new Galaxy and changing Mario and friends slightly. So, as you said, in THIS newer timeline DK Jr. doesn't exist and never did. Good video dude.👍
I agree with DK Junior growing up just not into Fedora Kong, that's a non canon character. We see a full grown Donkey Kong Junior in Super Mario Kart. I have a headcanon Bowser gave DK Jr a gameover. Koopa Kid or Baby Bowser or Mini Bowser I think he's still canon, I have a few hypotheses why. You are right about Partner's in Time, that's when Time Travel is introduced. But you are incorrect about Super Mario Galaxy, it's a universe reset not time travel. But most importantly the Lumas reset the universe not Rosalina she says so herself in the scene. The Lumas aka Star Kids and the grown counterparts the Star Spirits are the ones with power within the Mario World.
@@Eris1987 Interesting. Thanks 😊
I'm going with DK64 and the movie retcon where he is the son of Cranky, so Donkey Kong is Donkey Kong Jr. grown up. Feels more cleaner than the messy explanations if DK Jr is Donkey Kong's father, with 3 generations of Kongs while Mario don't age. Afterall Donkey Kong Jr. disappeared around the time reboot Donkey Kong showed up and replaced him in games like Mario Kart 64. Even if both reboot Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr show up in Mario Tennis, it just him a younger version of himself like Mario and Baby Mario appearing in the same Mario Tennis game alongside them.
DK64 was a mistake, which is why we had that comment saying Cranky was senile. The Movieverse is a separate canon from the main canon of Mario Tales. Also, even if you try to remove Donkey Kong Junior you still have 2 other Kongs rapidly aging Cranky Kong and Tiny Kong. It's not just Donkey Kong Junior who we see fully grown by Super Mario Kart. Why is it like this? The Gameverse canon is basically a high fantasy world that doesn't abide by our rules. Outside of that almost all official media from Nintendo for the Games intends to let us know that Donkey Kong the Third is the grandson of Cranky Kong. We can't take something like the Movieverse canon and apply it to the games, they contradict each other. Remember a retcon is meant to fix an inconsistency not simply change things. The Koopalings retcon fixed an inconsistency.
@@Eris1987 Donkey Kong Jr. was in Super Mario Kart for the SNES not Mario Kart 64, reboot Donkey Kong replaced him in Mario Kart 64. Movie retcon fixes your messy inconsistent timeline, and is the latest retcon which Nintendo's probably going to go forward with, so I'm going with that and DK64.
@@JohEl777 yes he was in Super Mario Kart. There is no reboot Donkey Kong, there is however his son Donkey Kong the Third the grandson of Cranky Kong aka Donkey Kong Senior. The movie doesn't retcon anything, it's a completely separate Canon from the Mario Tales. Just like how Mario + Rabbids is a separate canon. The movie conflicts a lot with the games and doesn't mesh well. Mario and Luigi don't have their classic attire, there is 2 worlds instead of 1, Mario and Luigi are Italian Plumbers in New York instead of Native sons of the Mushroom Kingdom who moved to Big Ape City, Toad and Captain Toad seemed to have been merged together, Princess Peach is from another world instead of being brought to her parents via stork in the Mushroom Kingdom, Toadsworth's absence, the adult Penguins begin the size of Baby Penguins, the way Superstars or Starman are treated, not eating Fire Flowers, Blue Shell Koopa instead of a Blue Shiny Shell, the Main Yoshi's origins, the events of Mario Bros and Donkey Kong don't play out, the existence of the Kong Civilization, the advanced Karts made by the Kongs instead of the Primitive Karts from SMK, etc etc etc.
@@Eris1987 You know what I mean by reboot Donkey Kong, Rareware Donkey Kong, 90s Donkey Kong, whatever you want to call him. I'm still going with the most recent movie retcon, for me Mario and Luigi always been Italian plumbers from New York City who got warped to the Mushroom Kingdom.
@@JohEl777 It's still the same Donkey Kong, there wasn't a reboot. The movie isn't a retcon it's different canon like the SuperShow. They are Italian Plumbers from Brooklyn in the movie, SuperShow, and other movie. However, they are not and weren't intended to be from another world in the game Canon of Mario Tales. As far back as Donkey Kong Land and Donkey Kong for the Gameboy this was intended, even in the Yoshi games. Also, even a year afterwards in the OVA this concept was already a thing. There was never an intent for it to be from Brooklyn. The voice work yes.
To be honest the DK Jr = DK iii makes the most sense.
Your argument about the art style isn't substantial because Mario from his conception looked WAY different from his modern day counterpart, yet Jump Man is still Mario.
Baby DK's adventures with Yoshi can easily pre-date the events of DK Jr (the game). Cranky refers to Donkey Kong as his Grandson. But this undeniable fact doesn't disprove DK iii from being DK Jr. In DKC 1 DK iii could just as easily view Cranky as his father figure, hence why he refers to Cranky as "Papa" in DK Jr.
DK Jr. co-existing with Mario Tennis would be no different than Baby Mario co-existing with Mario. Mario Timeline is weird like that sometimes. DK iii taking DK Jr's slot from Super Mario Kart (SNES) further supports the idea that he just grew up.
There's never been a set in stone statement since Shigeru Miyamoto hasn't had any hand in the series' lore since the Arcade games. & the folks who soft rebooted the franchise from Rare haven't been involved in the series since their buyout by Microsoft (save for Diddy Kong Racing DS).
There was a cartoon in the 80s which dk n dk jr are Mario’s pets n dk was in captain N also
Separate canon
Ok so you complicated so here the Mario in original games is current Mario’s grandfather n 2d games saving toadstool is his son by 64 it’s current Mario just like there’s different links in most games
Matpat did a topic on this years ago n said in arcade of dk jr there’s multiple Mario’s pulling dk up also on a lunch box art you see Mario’s grandfather
Multiple DKs yes, there are many sources of information to back that up. Mario's no, Nintendo straight up says there is only 1. In addition many games, media, and details say it's the same Mario. Such as the Yoshis Island Games, Partners in Time, Mario vs Donkey Kong, Mario's outfit change, the Encyclopedia referring to the early games as Mario's early adventures, etc. I wouldn't take what MatPat hypotheses about the Canon of the Mario Tales as fact. They are almost always wrong and ignore the lore of the games.
Nice
Dk jr is the young uncle of Dk from Country
What?
@@Eris1987 like from the cartoon King of the hill the kid character (Bobby Hill) has an uncle whos a baby (G.H Hill) whos his dads (Hank Hill) half brother. Hanks dad (Cotton Hill) had his brother at an old age. Cotton is Bobbys Grandad.
Kranky is the grandad, DK is the grandson, and Dk jr. is the young uncle ... we never see DKs dad so Kranky had a son before Dk jr. Who had DK
@@skanker1772 yeah no, Nintendo lore establishes Donkey Kong Senior as the father of Donkey Kong Junior, and the grandfather of Donkey Kong The Third.
@@Eris1987 Kranky= Dk senior(grand father)
Dk jr is still Dk seniors son
Dk senior had an older son before Jr. Thats the dad of dk the third which would still make Dk senior still his grand father and still have Jr. as a son ... theres plenty of examples of nephews being older than there uncles
@@Eris1987 have you never seen King of the Hill??