My first option would be to try to reverse out, reassess, then do a bit of track prep. That technique might not work given the track angle, and even getting the vehicle recovered rearwards could be difficult if both vehicles are struggling with traction. My second option would be to dig the front wheel guide ramp out of the rut as you suggested, in which I would place a recovery track. Hopefully the recovery track would give the front end a bit more grip and redirection with something reasonably solid. Then it's go slow time. All too easy in hindsight of course.
I think the lady read the situation ok as she was very dubious going forward would succeed! Hopefully she will not be put off by this accident. Agree with your suggestions and reversing out to reset and plan is def a great first choice for this situation.
As the owner of the vehicle, bloke in the brown pants (who slips over). Just want to add some further comment/context. One thing that isnt mentioned here is we had already been around that exact section once the other way. From where we were standing, it looked like the logs in the rut were firmly in there and was going to provide a bit of traction or be able to drive ontop of. Also, the rut looked small - in a spontaneous decision to try just get up. In hindsight none of this is apparent and everyone in hindsight will see that this was an error. But clearly when you are phsyically seeing things its different. Me and my friend both have a medium level of experience and both saw a similar action. We all made errors and all i can say is we have learnt a lot about this situation, mainly to take your time more and think about possible out comings rather than try something to 'see' if it works. Thanks to madmatt for a great channel and reviewing the footage. Im happy to accept any questions or comments that aren't disrespectful as we all make mistakes.
Hey Mick. Thanks heaps for providing more details. I certainly hope you don’t feel like I was picking on you. And if you do I’m sorry about that. As I’m sure you know I often make my mistakes public and see what we can all learn from it. The biggest one which I learned so much from was the recovery of my sons rollover When we watch a small bit of content such as this we miss so many of the critical details that contribute to the situation. Anyway thanks for helping us all learn.
@@r1chardarcherGood question - very difficult to say the least. We ended up using my friends car (FJ cruiser) winch around a tree to act as a block, then connected that to the bottom of the Amarok to pull sideways. We sacrificed the battery of the Amarok and used it's winch to pull the Amarok forward through the rut. Slowly using each winch to pull sideways and forwards. The issue was the slippery mud. We needed an anchor for the FJ but didn't have anything. Luckily eventually another car came by and we used their winch as an anchor point. Took a good 3-4 hours.
Being brand new to 4wd'ing, the moment someone displays that they don't have confidence in what's going on, I give them the option of reversing out or swapping to an experienced 4wd'r. Nothing to be gained by pushing a newbie beyond their comfort zone.
@@HardstylePete If you as the experienced spotter know that there is no way anything is going to go wrong, then it can be very beneficial to guide them through their fear and build some confidence. On the other hand, if you as the spotter lead them into a rollover like this it's going to be difficult to even get them back in the driver's seat.
I’m glad everyone is ok. We seen a bus roll on its side a few years back. No serious injuries we helped the people out and waited for the ambulance to arrive. I noticed one of my mates had cut his hand bad and twisted his knee. Found out that he ran to help and slipped holding onto a sharp object. The ambo told us that they are trained to walk not run to help. If it was a Toyota would they still be together 😊 Keep up the great work Matt 👏👏👏
It's hard to tell if they're carrying them, but I've found traction boards are excellent at getting yourself out of ruts. This was taught to me by a Land Rover Experience instructor. Of course, it helps if they're good quality items and the boards do need to be located securely so there's little risk of them sliding along with the vehicle. It also means less damage to the track, which we should all be advocating.
Matt, Lots to unpack here. Funny you used the term train tracks. Same term I was using in my head while I was watching. When I see ruts like that and the greasy clay, I think train tracks. So, for one, the woman driving is probably the best driver out of the bunch. We all run our own physics algorithm in our heads when we come to an obstacle. Her physics algorythm was spot on. If lockers were involved, that could be another force causing straight trajectory. Next, could they back up and try to get on the left line earlier? Given how greasy it is, would there be a potential to slide in anyway. Perhaps going straight through the obstacle is better if you have a winch to recover the rig.
My first thought would be to back it out and try the right hand line. From the Dashcam footage it looks as though there is plenty of room to the right but we can not see what is behind the dashcam vehicle Short of that I do like your idea of the trench coupled with a strap to help swing the front of the vehicle around as it moves forward. First thing I will say to any beginner, If you don't feel safe and confident, don't do it.
Everyone reacts differently in stressful situations. Didn’t hear anyone telling her to switch it off. This is a good and quick way to save the vehicle, but also a good way to know the driver is conscious. I have always said the ladies make better off-roaders. Always hard to tell from video, but backing up and driving into the rut and squaring it up may have been another option. Especially in slippy condition. And be prepared to winch it through.
Looking at the video, pics, being able to pause and think before commenting is obviously a huge advantage. I’ll come back to that. The angle of the front wheels (hard left), clay, and the depth of the rut makes it seem like the best decision would be to back up, go right then come across the rut from right to left. With the depth of the drop-down and the slippery conditions maybe not the best decision to have an inexperienced driver? Great to hear that no one was hurt and at the end of the day that is the main thing. Vehicles can be repaired, loved ones sometimes sadly cannot. Back to pausing and thinking. This is a lesson experienced four wheel drivers know well. You can easily pause a video to assess and comment, doing it in real life is a more difficult thing to do. Learning to take the time, pause, assess, consider options is well worth it. Don’t rush and don’t be pushed to do something in a way that doesn’t look right to you in the heat of the moment. Peer pressure is a bad thing when it comes to safety.
Great comment. What I’ve found is these videos allow us to consider things before we have to learn them in real life. I know I’ve learned a fair bit though these videos.
This is a spectacular example of what not to do when spotting! 15 seconds from when Emma says "If I do that, I am going to fall" to the actual fall! Imagine, committing 15 seconds, start to finish in making a plan through a tough obstacle, in clay, with jeopardy, and an inexperienced driver, in a ute they haven't driven before.
To Emma's credit, she jumped on the brake pretty quick! See 2:12~2:13 in the video. ...and didn't take her foot off the brake until the vehicle had stopped. These videos all show just how quickly thing can go pear-shaped. Definitely good case studies to discuss. Thanks Matt!
I think what would have helped is if there was a dedicated team leader who managed the situation before, during and after. Someone to keep everyone calm and focused on the task/situation at hand.
When I owned an IFS ute, I got myself in a few sticky situations that rolling was very likely. The best way to mitigate that risk is just committing the drop with the wheels pointing the correct angle to continue with the roll direction. In this case, the ute would end up in that bog and be stuck down there but not on its side. Then getting towed out backwards or winching through the bog.
When they told her to give it the boot / " Boonti " , did they want / expect it to light up all 4 tyres, get them at a high rate of wheel speed spinning , in the hopes to claw it left more than forward? And because how slippery it already appeared, they didn't forsee it launching forward first? it was always going to grip before spinning because the whole body of the car is pointing down hill, and gravity always has a say in situations like this. If they wanted to avoid the mudhole, the right side looks like a much better option as it looks much flatter than the left side, and you can stay furthur from the bog hole. This Comment was made at 5 Mins 44 seconds on my first watch of this video. Great content again Matt.
I wonder if they could have driven to the right of that hole? Looks like there’s enough room for a vehicle and a bit more vegetation on the ground that may provide a bit more grip?
Front wheels full of wet clay = no grip; rear wheels appear relatively clear = some grip. Give it some “bunty” = rear wheels push car forward + front wheels slip&slide …all that + an existing rut, means the vehicle was always going to do what actually happened, regardless of the amount of “bunty” or front wheel direction.
Haven’t read all the comments but I would suggest the traction boards, mounted very prominently & for rapid access, on the side of the vehicle (prior to taking a dip) would make a pretty decent ramp out out of that rut.
@Madmatt, your comments about how you think you should instruct inexperienced people is interesting to me. I’ve been an instructor and coach for a very long time now and I never find I have to think about how I communicate my experience to those I’m instructing. I think that the success of a good instructor is their ability to put themselves into the beginners shoes as let’s face it we were all beginners once. Good on you for recognising your own shortcomings in teaching others. It makes you a better teacher. 😎👍I also like your take on how men talk women drivers through a technical track. I’ve experienced both good and bad but am glad I haven’t ended up in this situation! Thanks for your great learning videos. I love your own reflection in these. Cheers.
Thanks. I suspect personality types come into how we communicate. I can get a bit arrogant which I think is a root issue but also I’m not a details person.
It's extremely common for experts to struggle to explain articulately the things beginners struggle with, in all facets of life. When one becomes an expert, or at least experienced, all that beginner shit goes becomes second nature that happens subconsciously without any thought or consideration. This often leads to it being missed. This is why being good at something doesn't always make you a good teacher. It's so important to be able to remember what it was like to be new at something and how awkward and foreign it feels.
The other problem is the ABS stops the vehicle from stopping suddenly. The vehicles travel a lot further than you want. You can see she put the foot on the brake but the wheels kept rolling and didn’t lock up.
Once this type of situation has happened, this is one of the reasons I like Tirfor type winches, they can pretty much pull from any angle, it is obviously very slippery so might be difficult anchoring the other vehicle, even if they have a winch. Another thing that can help is a good ratchet strap. Maybe taking advantage of Vector forces in ropes using the ratchet to do this. Of course all this needs to have the equipment and knowledge to hand at the time. I bet it was a long and interesting recovery. Glad no one was hurt.
After Emma said this will not go, i would've use the winch, so that the winch could pull the Amarok to the left, so that the front wheel on the driverside could slip to the hole.
All hindsight of course, and glad no one was really hurt except some pride. Maybe hitting the ruts from the right, crossing them from where the dashcam is with so you were less likely to spear into the hole. I do like the option of using the snatch as a type of lever through a tree trunk idea Matt and wouldn't have thought of that. If it was me, I would have most likely turned around, hate cleaning clay and mud from under the car...lol..
They have Tred’s on the side of the canopy.. without even going to the effort of digging a small trench to change direction they could have her back up, mount both the treds on the drivers side and use them to shift across to the chicken track. Very simple stuff. If that doesn’t work, try something else, but that is a very simple, efficient way to get realigned.
I'm glad everyone was ok. But my first thought was the right line looks a lot better, bit hard to tell from the vid. If that wasn't a go. It would need some track building, traction boards and, slowly slowly
For me my first thought would be to back up and dig a leed as you suggest further away from the drop off. That large log placed after the leed would act as the wall to assist the front driver side wheel to lift out of the rut. concider if the track slopes back to the rut after that point to avoid sliding in further along and if thats a potentual then rig a line to stop that maybe but even before the video began that as the driver stated was not a good test for a new driver. Look at what could go wrong and plan to avoid that. Rolled over the vehicle is still a potentual fire hazard with reguards to bateries and fuel. Panic kills and a simple knock to the head with rain and stress brings on hypothermia as it would if he twisted an ankle or broke a leg. If somthing bad is going to happen, it's going to happen out there🏴☠
That could be a relationship breaker. Yes men do like to be in control until it goes wrong. Ha! I learn so much from your videos. I am a beginner so I hope I remember all this!
Her spotter should've been looking at where / what direction her front tires were pointed / turned. She had them turned up hill which resulted in the roll over. Had she turned them to the right - down hill, punching the throttle might've prevented the roll over. A better course of action would've been to back up, move those logs, drive into the ruts, or straddle them on the right side, and go straight down hill.
One of the first rules we are taught in the road crash rescue handbook is never run at the scene of an accident, unless of course it's life and death like for example the car is on fire. Because who will rescue the rescuer. Also footage may be deceiving but at 2:22 looks like they could back up and go to the right and avoid the obstacle th-cam.com/video/7fkyzYsM6Jw/w-d-xo.html
Oh and thanks Matt, i like these "unpack" video's we can all learn from them no matter how experienced we are or think we are. Glad Emma is ok, cars can be fixed or replaced and kudos to anyone handing over their fail footage for discussion and education. We all make mistakes.
It looked like fairly flat ground, so even if the plan was to see if throttle might get you out of the rut, you wouldn't be changing the physics much by turning passenger and trying to get out in reverse. At least that way the only thing that would happen is you would fail to get out.
@@MadMatt4WD I agree. I meant that more in a general sense. If there is a safer option that accomplishes the same thing you might as well try that one over the one risks your vehicle.
I would apply some opposite lock and try going backwards a small distance to try to climb the bank to give you chance to climb it. Otherwise, I would have dragged the car backwards and picked a better line. Alternatively, you could have winched up the slope before driving forward.
In all fairness they appear to have all the equipment with no idea how to use it and when to use it. The get up it attitude is common now in society which is sad.
Toolangi wet clay…. You got about as much control as on black ice… If it’s wet stay in the ruts, if the ruts go where you don’t want to go -> dig new ruts. I think a single line winch or reversed strap would most certainly have avoided the roll over but looking at the condition I think the rear end would have gone into the hole regardless. If both vehicles have a front winch I would have set up two winches. Lead vehicle front to a tree far ahead in a line that keeps the front out. 2nd vehicle a line through a snatch block on a tree 90ish degree to the back of the lead vehicle to keep the rear out. This way you get the lead vehicle through - but what’s the last vehicle in the convoy gonna do?
The spotter is *partly* to blame, here. [Bad luck is mostly to blame.] He knew that she's a beginner. I have the benefit of hindsight, but I might've tried telling her, "right hand down, try to feel (and listen to me) we want to avoid lock up and keep your r/f rolling".
Agree, it’s a laughable situation after the fact because all involved were unharmed apart from the vehicle and the owner’s bank account, albeit he instigated the outcome. Thanks for the content MM
I think the main issue is that they just said to get into it to an I inexperienced person, vs try some throttle but be conscience of it not climbing and abort straight away, someone experienced it would be second nature but to someone green they will follow the instruction to stop on it
From start to finish the end result was inevitable, if you driving into trouble, stop,reverse and re set. Left lock wasn’t working and it wasn’t ever going to work with slippery mud encrusted tyres. Hindsight irrelevant in this scenario just a little more forward thinking and patience .
To dig a trench under a vehicle on a muddy slope is putting the digger in a very precarious situation. There is no guarantee the breaks or the soil will not give way while you are at it. I would reverse to start with and if that not possible winch back and the re-evaluate, dig a trench or whatever
From her prospective i say she sould have backed up, or gotten pulled back. Told the experts demonstrate your plan and if it works ill consider your application 😉
To many cheifs not enough Indians, the driver should always have the final say regardless of experience. If as a driver you feel the situation is bad then ignore the advice coming from the sidelines and STOP then get out and have a look your self.
@@MadMatt4WD keep it up m8, I just stumbled on your channel and am glad your giving good well educated advice, you may be saving lives with your info. 👍👍
She clearly wasn't confident or skilled neither was anyone else, in particular the guy saying to put the foot down and drive out of a rut which couldn't happen. Inexperience was abundant all around. I think the driver clearly had more brains that the clueless spotter.
One thing old mate could've done different was stay on his feet 😂 seriously though..plan for the worst, hope for the best with the mentality she won't be right mate. In this case, Cupcake your mate and listen to your Mrs..
Rig looks too heavy, especially top heavy. Mud to slick spotters gave bad line bad advice. Not sure it would matter who was driving that rig attempting that line being that slick very likely same outcome. She didn't do anything wrong other than listening to the spotters and not her instinct.
You already have some good suggestions to use in this situation so no need to comment on that. Your passive aggressive, condescending remark on the young ladies expletive word which any true blue Aussie would understand in a stressful situation (first time 4wding,new man's,relatively fancy rig, while giving the control of the situation outside of your hands theoretically) was just uncalled for and sounded belittling. Once the vehicle has settled check on driver as they did then if there ok just stop take a breathe and let the adrenalin settle then access and proceed. Glad she is well but don't let it stop you, you where right to question the advice you where given but as you advance you will be able to give alternative suggestions and feedback 👍
39th! The "male ego" greatly intensifies the level of stupidity of doing things that continuously has decreasing chance of succeeding! Why so special the drive to "stupid actions"? Upon the 1% chance of success... truly is amazing feeling in achieving what is viewed as impossible!! The whole "Mission Impossible" movie series is derived around this concept! When in the reality of life the true winners are the people who chose to take the more precious sctions in succeeding in lifes decisions & actions! Yea! Hahahahaha! O:-)
My first option would be to try to reverse out, reassess, then do a bit of track prep. That technique might not work given the track angle, and even getting the vehicle recovered rearwards could be difficult if both vehicles are struggling with traction. My second option would be to dig the front wheel guide ramp out of the rut as you suggested, in which I would place a recovery track. Hopefully the recovery track would give the front end a bit more grip and redirection with something reasonably solid. Then it's go slow time. All too easy in hindsight of course.
Reverse, right hand down
I think the lady read the situation ok as she was very dubious going forward would succeed! Hopefully she will not be put off by this accident. Agree with your suggestions and reversing out to reset and plan is def a great first choice for this situation.
As the owner of the vehicle, bloke in the brown pants (who slips over). Just want to add some further comment/context.
One thing that isnt mentioned here is we had already been around that exact section once the other way. From where we were standing, it looked like the logs in the rut were firmly in there and was going to provide a bit of traction or be able to drive ontop of. Also, the rut looked small - in a spontaneous decision to try just get up.
In hindsight none of this is apparent and everyone in hindsight will see that this was an error. But clearly when you are phsyically seeing things its different. Me and my friend both have a medium level of experience and both saw a similar action.
We all made errors and all i can say is we have learnt a lot about this situation, mainly to take your time more and think about possible out comings rather than try something to 'see' if it works.
Thanks to madmatt for a great channel and reviewing the footage.
Im happy to accept any questions or comments that aren't disrespectful as we all make mistakes.
Hey Mick. Thanks heaps for providing more details. I certainly hope you don’t feel like I was picking on you. And if you do I’m sorry about that. As I’m sure you know I often make my mistakes public and see what we can all learn from it. The biggest one which I learned so much from was the recovery of my sons rollover
When we watch a small bit of content such as this we miss so many of the critical details that contribute to the situation. Anyway thanks for helping us all learn.
How did you go getting the vehicle and Emma back out? Looks like a tricky spot to be. Thanks for sharing it with us.
@@r1chardarcherGood question - very difficult to say the least. We ended up using my friends car (FJ cruiser) winch around a tree to act as a block, then connected that to the bottom of the Amarok to pull sideways. We sacrificed the battery of the Amarok and used it's winch to pull the Amarok forward through the rut. Slowly using each winch to pull sideways and forwards. The issue was the slippery mud. We needed an anchor for the FJ but didn't have anything. Luckily eventually another car came by and we used their winch as an anchor point. Took a good 3-4 hours.
Thanks Mick. It must have been harrowing.
Big kudos to you Mick for going 'full monty' here.
Being brand new to 4wd'ing, the moment someone displays that they don't have confidence in what's going on, I give them the option of reversing out or swapping to an experienced 4wd'r. Nothing to be gained by pushing a newbie beyond their comfort zone.
Out of your comfort zone is where people learn. The problem was the terrible directions and the decision to go fast committing to the wrong line.
@@HardstylePete If you as the experienced spotter know that there is no way anything is going to go wrong, then it can be very beneficial to guide them through their fear and build some confidence. On the other hand, if you as the spotter lead them into a rollover like this it's going to be difficult to even get them back in the driver's seat.
I’m glad everyone is ok. We seen a bus roll on its side a few years back. No serious injuries we helped the people out and waited for the ambulance to arrive. I noticed one of my mates had cut his hand bad and twisted his knee. Found out that he ran to help and slipped holding onto a sharp object. The ambo told us that they are trained to walk not run to help. If it was a Toyota would they still be together 😊
Keep up the great work Matt 👏👏👏
Jack your contributions are always welcome but don’t start stirring the pot about Toyotas. 😂😂😂
It's hard to tell if they're carrying them, but I've found traction boards are excellent at getting yourself out of ruts. This was taught to me by a Land Rover Experience instructor. Of course, it helps if they're good quality items and the boards do need to be located securely so there's little risk of them sliding along with the vehicle. It also means less damage to the track, which we should all be advocating.
They've got them on the side of the canopy but most people only seem to think they're decorations for 4x4's
@@markbaylis6473
You mostly see then in city traffic, shiny, clean and oh-so-cool.
Thanks!
Thanks and thanks for the Super Thanks
Matt, Lots to unpack here. Funny you used the term train tracks. Same term I was using in my head while I was watching. When I see ruts like that and the greasy clay, I think train tracks. So, for one, the woman driving is probably the best driver out of the bunch. We all run our own physics algorithm in our heads when we come to an obstacle. Her physics algorythm was spot on. If lockers were involved, that could be another force causing straight trajectory. Next, could they back up and try to get on the left line earlier? Given how greasy it is, would there be a potential to slide in anyway. Perhaps going straight through the obstacle is better if you have a winch to recover the rig.
My first thought would be to back it out and try the right hand line. From the Dashcam footage it looks as though there is plenty of room to the right but we can not see what is behind the dashcam vehicle Short of that I do like your idea of the trench coupled with a strap to help swing the front of the vehicle around as it moves forward. First thing I will say to any beginner, If you don't feel safe and confident, don't do it.
Everyone reacts differently in stressful situations. Didn’t hear anyone telling her to switch it off. This is a good and quick way to save the vehicle, but also a good way to know the driver is conscious.
I have always said the ladies make better off-roaders.
Always hard to tell from video, but backing up and driving into the rut and squaring it up may have been another option. Especially in slippy condition. And be prepared to winch it through.
Glad everyone was ok 👍
Looking at the video, pics, being able to pause and think before commenting is obviously a huge advantage. I’ll come back to that.
The angle of the front wheels (hard left), clay, and the depth of the rut makes it seem like the best decision would be to back up, go right then come across the rut from right to left. With the depth of the drop-down and the slippery conditions maybe not the best decision to have an inexperienced driver? Great to hear that no one was hurt and at the end of the day that is the main thing. Vehicles can be repaired, loved ones sometimes sadly cannot.
Back to pausing and thinking.
This is a lesson experienced four wheel drivers know well. You can easily pause a video to assess and comment, doing it in real life is a more difficult thing to do. Learning to take the time, pause, assess, consider options is well worth it. Don’t rush and don’t be pushed to do something in a way that doesn’t look right to you in the heat of the moment. Peer pressure is a bad thing when it comes to safety.
Great comment. What I’ve found is these videos allow us to consider things before we have to learn them in real life. I know I’ve learned a fair bit though these videos.
This is a spectacular example of what not to do when spotting! 15 seconds from when Emma says "If I do that, I am going to fall" to the actual fall!
Imagine, committing 15 seconds, start to finish in making a plan through a tough obstacle, in clay, with jeopardy, and an inexperienced driver, in a ute they haven't driven before.
To Emma's credit, she jumped on the brake pretty quick! See 2:12~2:13 in the video. ...and didn't take her foot off the brake until the vehicle had stopped. These videos all show just how quickly thing can go pear-shaped. Definitely good case studies to discuss. Thanks Matt!
My pleasure
I think what would have helped is if there was a dedicated team leader who managed the situation before, during and after. Someone to keep everyone calm and focused on the task/situation at hand.
When I owned an IFS ute, I got myself in a few sticky situations that rolling was very likely. The best way to mitigate that risk is just committing the drop with the wheels pointing the correct angle to continue with the roll direction. In this case, the ute would end up in that bog and be stuck down there but not on its side. Then getting towed out backwards or winching through the bog.
I agree
When they told her to give it the boot / " Boonti " , did they want / expect it to light up all 4 tyres, get them at a high rate of wheel speed spinning , in the hopes to claw it left more than forward?
And because how slippery it already appeared, they didn't forsee it launching forward first? it was always going to grip before spinning because the whole body of the car is pointing down hill, and gravity always has a say in situations like this. If they wanted to avoid the mudhole, the right side looks like a much better option as it looks much flatter than the left side, and you can stay furthur from the bog hole. This Comment was made at 5 Mins 44 seconds on my first watch of this video. Great content again Matt.
I wonder if they could have driven to the right of that hole? Looks like there’s enough room for a vehicle and a bit more vegetation on the ground that may provide a bit more grip?
Yeah I wondered that too
I'd reverse followed by a u-turn if possible! :))
She was lucky she didn't lose a limb (hand/ arm) having her window down!
Great spotting… that car was rolling from the beginning
Front wheels full of wet clay = no grip; rear wheels appear relatively clear = some grip.
Give it some “bunty” = rear wheels push car forward + front wheels slip&slide
…all that + an existing rut, means the vehicle was always going to do what actually happened, regardless of the amount of “bunty” or front wheel direction.
Haven’t read all the comments but I would suggest the traction boards, mounted very prominently & for rapid access, on the side of the vehicle (prior to taking a dip) would make a pretty decent ramp out out of that rut.
I think you’re right.
@Madmatt, your comments about how you think you should instruct inexperienced people is interesting to me. I’ve been an instructor and coach for a very long time now and I never find I have to think about how I communicate my experience to those I’m instructing. I think that the success of a good instructor is their ability to put themselves into the beginners shoes as let’s face it we were all beginners once. Good on you for recognising your own shortcomings in teaching others. It makes you a better teacher. 😎👍I also like your take on how men talk women drivers through a technical track. I’ve experienced both good and bad but am glad I haven’t ended up in this situation! Thanks for your great learning videos. I love your own reflection in these. Cheers.
Thanks. I suspect personality types come into how we communicate. I can get a bit arrogant which I think is a root issue but also I’m not a details person.
It's extremely common for experts to struggle to explain articulately the things beginners struggle with, in all facets of life. When one becomes an expert, or at least experienced, all that beginner shit goes becomes second nature that happens subconsciously without any thought or consideration. This often leads to it being missed.
This is why being good at something doesn't always make you a good teacher. It's so important to be able to remember what it was like to be new at something and how awkward and foreign it feels.
Thanks for the review. Liked the “Dig a small trench.”
The other problem is the ABS stops the vehicle from stopping suddenly. The vehicles travel a lot further than you want. You can see she put the foot on the brake but the wheels kept rolling and didn’t lock up.
That’s a really good point.
Once this type of situation has happened, this is one of the reasons I like Tirfor type winches, they can pretty much pull from any angle, it is obviously very slippery so might be difficult anchoring the other vehicle, even if they have a winch. Another thing that can help is a good ratchet strap. Maybe taking advantage of Vector forces in ropes using the ratchet to do this. Of course all this needs to have the equipment and knowledge to hand at the time. I bet it was a long and interesting recovery. Glad no one was hurt.
Thanks Max, you help us learn from others misfortune.
After Emma said this will not go, i would've use the winch, so that the winch could pull the Amarok to the left, so that the front wheel on the driverside could slip to the hole.
I agree
All hindsight of course, and glad no one was really hurt except some pride. Maybe hitting the ruts from the right, crossing them from where the dashcam is with so you were less likely to spear into the hole. I do like the option of using the snatch as a type of lever through a tree trunk idea Matt and wouldn't have thought of that. If it was me, I would have most likely turned around, hate cleaning clay and mud from under the car...lol..
Great info and a happy ending!
I nearly rolled my brand new BT-50 in the same location. I will have to get you that video soon.
That would be interesting to see
They have Tred’s on the side of the canopy.. without even going to the effort of digging a small trench to change direction they could have her back up, mount both the treds on the drivers side and use them to shift across to the chicken track. Very simple stuff. If that doesn’t work, try something else, but that is a very simple, efficient way to get realigned.
For real. Recovery tracks aren't just for sand
Reverse (on their own or with help) move to the left, there seems to be lefty of space there... pin-stripping is better than a roll over.
I'm glad everyone was ok. But my first thought was the right line looks a lot better, bit hard to tell from the vid. If that wasn't a go. It would need some track building, traction boards and, slowly slowly
She was right 😉hope this helps, you're welcome.
Na just stick to what you're confident with, looks like ya could have just gone around it.
For me my first thought would be to back up and dig a leed as you suggest further away from the drop off. That large log placed after the leed would act as the wall to assist the front driver side wheel to lift out of the rut.
concider if the track slopes back to the rut after that point to avoid sliding in further along and if thats a potentual then rig a line to stop that maybe but even before the video began that as the driver stated was not a good test for a new driver.
Look at what could go wrong and plan to avoid that. Rolled over the vehicle is still a potentual fire hazard with reguards to bateries and fuel.
Panic kills and a simple knock to the head with rain and stress brings on hypothermia as it would if he twisted an ankle or broke a leg.
If somthing bad is going to happen, it's going to happen out there🏴☠
That could be a relationship breaker. Yes men do like to be in control until it goes wrong. Ha!
I learn so much from your videos. I am a beginner so I hope I remember all this!
You are so welcome. Apparently they’re still going strong.
Her spotter should've been looking at where / what direction her front tires were pointed / turned. She had them turned up hill which resulted in the roll over. Had she turned them to the right - down hill, punching the throttle might've prevented the roll over. A better course of action would've been to back up, move those logs, drive into the ruts, or straddle them on the right side, and go straight down hill.
Emma was collateral damage to crappy instructions - back out and have another crack. I like your suggestion re: cut an escape track👌
Definitely less Buntie! I'd actually be going backward there, get as much potential escape rout there as possible.
One of the first rules we are taught in the road crash rescue handbook is never run at the scene of an accident, unless of course it's life and death like for example the car is on fire. Because who will rescue the rescuer. Also footage may be deceiving but at 2:22 looks like they could back up and go to the right and avoid the obstacle th-cam.com/video/7fkyzYsM6Jw/w-d-xo.html
Oh and thanks Matt, i like these "unpack" video's we can all learn from them no matter how experienced we are or think we are. Glad Emma is ok, cars can be fixed or replaced and kudos to anyone handing over their fail footage for discussion and education. We all make mistakes.
It looked like fairly flat ground, so even if the plan was to see if throttle might get you out of the rut, you wouldn't be changing the physics much by turning passenger and trying to get out in reverse. At least that way the only thing that would happen is you would fail to get out.
I can’t see this being driven out.
@@MadMatt4WD I agree. I meant that more in a general sense. If there is a safer option that accomplishes the same thing you might as well try that one over the one risks your vehicle.
I would apply some opposite lock and try going backwards a small distance to try to climb the bank to give you chance to climb it. Otherwise, I would have dragged the car backwards and picked a better line. Alternatively, you could have winched up the slope before driving forward.
In all fairness they appear to have all the equipment with no idea how to use it and when to use it. The get up it attitude is common now in society which is sad.
Toolangi wet clay…. You got about as much control as on black ice…
If it’s wet stay in the ruts, if the ruts go where you don’t want to go -> dig new ruts.
I think a single line winch or reversed strap would most certainly have avoided the roll over but looking at the condition I think the rear end would have gone into the hole regardless.
If both vehicles have a front winch I would have set up two winches. Lead vehicle front to a tree far ahead in a line that keeps the front out. 2nd vehicle a line through a snatch block on a tree 90ish degree to the back of the lead vehicle to keep the rear out.
This way you get the lead vehicle through - but what’s the last vehicle in the convoy gonna do?
The spotter is *partly* to blame, here. [Bad luck is mostly to blame.] He knew that she's a beginner. I have the benefit of hindsight, but I might've tried telling her, "right hand down, try to feel (and listen to me) we want to avoid lock up and keep your r/f rolling".
Agree, it’s a laughable situation after the fact because all involved were unharmed apart from the vehicle and the owner’s bank account, albeit he instigated the outcome. Thanks for the content MM
I think the main issue is that they just said to get into it to an I inexperienced person, vs try some throttle but be conscience of it not climbing and abort straight away, someone experienced it would be second nature but to someone green they will follow the instruction to stop on it
That’s an excellent point.
Here’s one I think you should break down Matt
th-cam.com/video/_ShPApHoX7o/w-d-xo.htmlsi=GUmDDbIpp7LOuqrD
Have you got link?
@@MadMatt4WDI posted it right underneath my comment
@@MadMatt4WD th-cam.com/video/_ShPApHoX7o/w-d-xo.htmlsi=FD2bHd_qG_etXY8W
Thanks, TH-cam put it in a review file. It's the jeep crash yeah? @@mtower235
From start to finish the end result was inevitable, if you driving into trouble, stop,reverse and re set. Left lock wasn’t working and it wasn’t ever going to work with slippery mud encrusted tyres. Hindsight irrelevant in this scenario just a little more forward thinking and patience .
To dig a trench under a vehicle on a muddy slope is putting the digger in a very precarious situation. There is no guarantee the breaks or the soil will not give way while you are at it. I would reverse to start with and if that not possible winch back and the re-evaluate, dig a trench or whatever
I agree I’d make the car safe before getting in front of it.
From her prospective i say she sould have backed up, or gotten pulled back. Told the experts demonstrate your plan and if it works ill consider your application 😉
winch it to the left to help bring car out of the rut
Anytime anyone experienced starts a comment to an inexperienced person in anything with “just…”, they have lost perspective.
I would have not chosen that line and moved over enough so that the trench went under the middle of the car or went off to the far left side.
ol boy was talking about the next 3 feet she was talking about the next 30 feet
John Wayne: 'Courage is being scared to death... and saddling up anyway.'
John Wayne "I always try to be ready"
Love it
To many cheifs not enough Indians, the driver should always have the final say regardless of experience. If as a driver you feel the situation is bad then ignore the advice coming from the sidelines and STOP then get out and have a look your self.
I agree and this is what I teach.
@@MadMatt4WD keep it up m8, I just stumbled on your channel and am glad your giving good well educated advice, you may be saving lives with your info. 👍👍
Do you know anything about the recovery of the car? The video kind of suggests that the recovery would have been above the group’s skills/experience
No I dont
Did I hear a little of a NZ eccent in that advice? Might go some way towards explaining the advice. 😂😉
Lol
Kiwis are use to playing in the mud. They'd just tell you it's a different kind of mud.
She clearly wasn't confident or skilled neither was anyone else, in particular the guy saying to put the foot down and drive out of a rut which couldn't happen. Inexperience was abundant all around.
I think the driver clearly had more brains that the clueless spotter.
Be nice. We all make mistakes and have to learn from them.
One thing old mate could've done different was stay on his feet 😂 seriously though..plan for the worst, hope for the best with the mentality she won't be right mate. In this case, Cupcake your mate and listen to your Mrs..
should have been on the right n stay in the ruts n just drop in n winch out
that angle she was on was never going to work being that slippery
Rig looks too heavy, especially top heavy. Mud to slick spotters gave bad line bad advice. Not sure it would matter who was driving that rig attempting that line being that slick very likely same outcome. She didn't do anything wrong other than listening to the spotters and not her instinct.
Maxtrax
You already have some good suggestions to use in this situation so no need to comment on that. Your passive aggressive, condescending remark on the young ladies expletive word which any true blue Aussie would understand in a stressful situation (first time 4wding,new man's,relatively fancy rig, while giving the control of the situation outside of your hands theoretically) was just uncalled for and sounded belittling. Once the vehicle has settled check on driver as they did then if there ok just stop take a breathe and let the adrenalin settle then access and proceed. Glad she is well but don't let it stop you, you where right to question the advice you where given but as you advance you will be able to give alternative suggestions and feedback 👍
I think you’ve misread what I was saying. I was in no way having a go at Emma.
39th! The "male ego" greatly intensifies the level of stupidity of doing things that continuously has decreasing chance of succeeding! Why so special the drive to "stupid actions"? Upon the 1% chance of success... truly is amazing feeling in achieving what is viewed as impossible!! The whole "Mission Impossible" movie series is derived around this concept! When in the reality of life the true winners are the people who chose to take the more precious sctions in succeeding in lifes decisions & actions! Yea! Hahahahaha! O:-)
This is true. 😁😁
I dunno about the bloke giving the instructions , blind Freddy could see what was going to happen .
Well obviously not necessarily obvious.
@@MadMatt4WD
Looked obvious to me. I would not have tried that.
Completely his fault.
Ha ha! A lot of armchair quarterbacks in these comments... 🤔😁😆😅🤣😉
Drrrr