What a video! My eyes got watery. When I gratuated college on my 2nd attempt at 29 I had my son in one arm and my soon to be wife with my unborn daugter in the other. Getting through school was tough with so much outside reponsibilites. 4 years later, now unemployed has been tough but I will keep on grinding. "The harder I work, the luckier I get"
Your phrase reminds me of one of my favourite Protest the Hero lyrics: "Diligence is the mother of good luck" which I think applies quite well to this topic
AI has nothing to do with the lack of Jr dev jobs. I have worked in IT ops for over 20 years, there has been a standard no hire for Jr engineers on the ops side for at least 15 years. Teams have been squeezed to be 1/5th of their size, there is no room to train or babysit anyone. we only hire Architects or Sr engineers. And this predates AI by a decade. My advice has always been build a lab, get the certs, do what you need to do to understand the technology then put it on your resume, don't lie outright, but don't volunteer this is your first IT job. And my favorite misinformed lies are the people that tell beginners to start in the help desk or service desk. Those people will never get hired. Its sad, and it does not just affect IT ops, it affects every department, Wall Steet does not want to support companies who plan for the long term, they prioritize this quarters earning over long term gains, and they try to extract max value from every company like a bunch of pirates plundering the future for short term gains now. It takes an exceptionally strong CEO and executive team to fight against the big institutional investors corrupting the boards of these companies.
Man all this shit people have to go through to find work is bullshit. I stopped looking for a job, I'm learning to code for codes sake and to build things people can use. All the HR games, and such is total bullshit. Yes I can see why companies would not hire a JR but you have to start somewhere and the fact is if everyone told the truth. Many jr devs will go YEARS and never find work, and some may NEVER get a job at all. It's all down to whom you know and can they get you in the door. For most people it's a total waste of time.
This is currently happening where I work too, I felt that team shrinkage hard man….our org got a new tech lead and bro said no junior devs in the entire org like huh 😂, and guess what? Does the work get split? Nope. 5 people getting work that should be split between around 10 people.
I started learning to code earlier this year. I'm 39. I find it so incredibly encouraging to hear about other people who were successful picking up the skill at my age.
Same here. After getting every certificate I still can't get a job. I feel it couldn't be the worst time to get into it... I mean if you have a degree great you're probably going to get a job. But idk about boot camp to programmer...
Don't believe the hype bros saying that AI will take all the jobs. AI is more likely to replace middle management than engineers. Keep working hard, it will be worth learning!
Same here. 39 started to code. Very difficult to get a job, especially because I have a terrible CV (but very great coding skills with real projects to back this statement up).
It's hard to find jobs for anyone right now. I am a Staff Engineer getting close to 30 years of experience and stay very current with tech. I've been blind applying to jobs and only one callback. Recently I posted on LinkedIn to my huge network of people and have gotten a lot of responses. I think this will be the lifeline that gets me back into a job; not being choosy so I'll probably end up in a Sr role again. Just need to get income again and figure out the rest later.
I dropped out of university doing computer science because I didn't feel like it was what I really wanted to do. I think that's just because of how the degree was structured with so much theory that just wasn't applicable to anything in the real world. Spent the next decade or so doing whatever and then eventually went back to school in my late twenties. I went to a technical college. Got a 2-year diploma and landed a job within 3 to 6 months. My first software job was after 30 and now I'm making crazy money at a job that I love.
Glad you decided to get back to me, that has been me, going back and fourth before committing. The only regret is believing that I was too late, it kept me from starting in my late twenties. Then I finally decided to start seriously at 35.
I didn't begin coding til I was 28, was 34 before I got to don the title of Software Engineer, and a whole lot of shit went down in between. When I got the call with an offer I was living in a red roof inn with 2 nights stay left, $6 in my pocket, and wondering if not offing myself had been the right choice. Literally went from homeless, hopeless, and destitute to 6-figures overnight. It's fucking rough out here.
Give me a little hope, I've been jobless for a year and a half, studied software dev, but no where is hiring junior devs, and companies are laying people off a bunch, I'm just slowly working on projects but it's been a struggle, gpt has helped with learning and direction but it's still a struggle
I think employers are shooting in their own foot, if they think they will replace ppl long term with AI, good luck to them. In 10-15 years where there will be lack of new IT workforce because new juniors are not hired and trained, i will gladly offer my skills for a big lump of $$ :)
All CS people are exemplary learners. Based on this, any one struggling to get hired should pivot to another industry for one to three years. They will learn quickly, excel at it, promote fast, pay their bills, pick up new skills, and when (if) the industry returns to normal, they can flow back in.
@@xCheddarB0b42x Another problem is those AI stars telling ppl not to pursue CS since "programmers" will no longer be needed ;). So current CS students may be good in 2-3 years but definetly CS and IT is no longer considered one of better career paths that it used to be, so less ppl will try to pursue it, leaving the issue of lack of workforce still valid imo...Again...more work for us :)
The reality though is that even if a company did train juniors, there would still be a lack of seniors for that company.. because the number of seniors around is an industry wide problem, but whether or not juniors are being trained is a company decision. An individual company will have basically no effect on the industry as a whole, so from their perspective there is no upside to training juniors (whether that particular company trains juniors or not will have no measurable effect on the cost of seniors either now or in the future). Companies don't make decisions because of what effect it has on the industry as a whole, they make decisions based only off of what effects it has on their company - doing things otherwise would be like asking a person to take a pay cut so that other people that have nothing to do with them can get extra money. Framing it as a "companies are so short-sighted" is just not accurate. Companies that care about long term growth would still make the same decision, because it's basically asking the company to act like a charity where they suffer the losses so that someone else can profit off of it.
@@asdfqwerty14587 Its not a charity, its an investment. This is a never ending cycle, we lack seniors, but we dont want to invest and train juniors to become seniors and the cycle goes on...good for me i can negotiate higher rates :)
To be fair, he's a pretty talented engineer/designer who used to work at AMD as a microprocessor designer and went through hard times building nVidia up to be the powerhouse they are now. During nVidia's hardest times in the late 90s, he would have contributed more as an engineer/designer than as a fancy tech founder. His talent and experience don't prevent him from making misleading statements that benefit him and his company, though.
@@r.k.vignesh7832 that, and in spite of his background, being removed from that involvement due to his role, means he's not in touch with where things are really at. Again, ignore that noise.
"I would take all these words and jumble them into something that appears like a sentence but not actually say anything" - ThePrimeagen is a self-professed LLM in a meat suit
Man i teared up when you mentioned your boys. I'm a dad. My dad was absent. You're a great father figure, and they are super fortunate to have you in their life.
Dad's are so important. I grew up with a terrible father and escaped the first chance I had, when I have kids I am not giving them the same horrible start to life. Fathers are so important, I hope and wish you have a great time and relationship with your kids!
Thanks for this. I’m 39 and finally got the courage this year to tell my self doubt to f**k off and pursue the dream(s) I wish I started many years ago. Your videos usually hit home but this one really hit home. Thank you so much 🙏
I graduated in December of 2023 with a CS degree from a decent university. I was rejected from every single internship and job I applied to up until November, 2023 where I finally got an offer. Never give up, keep grinding, it will pay off!!!!
I relate to the part where he says he just worked hard but wasnt the smartest in the room. In a room full of engineers, im average at best. I simpy put in the time. Its all i think about. I have code dreams / nightmares lol. People tell me to watch out for burnout, but bro my past career was being a ditch digger. Aint no rest until i think Im actually good at this shit.
@@CodingAfterThirtyAfter 15 years, I still feel dumber than many of my coworkers. For me, it's always been about finding at least *one* unique value add. Sometimes that's finding the part of the stack everyone hates and learning the shit out of it. Others it's been focusing on being the guy the client team/product team can ask questions and ensuring they get answers/solutions. Whatever it is, I know I'm useful without dealing with imposter syndrome or constant "competition".
It doesn't have to be saturated. When given a choice between 5 dollars and 10 dollars for free, people will always choose 10 (or both if you wanna defeat the philosophical point :P ). Companies will always maximize for the best bang of their buck, just like consumers do. It's just the way it works. And here's another hot take: It was always like that. People switched careers FROM programming TO something else because they realized how much work they have to put in to keep themselves updated since 2005. This isn't new.
No. Rather, it's a fieId in constant fIux, in which you can onIy succeed Iong term if you're constantIy up to date. AIot of the buzzwords used in recruitment ads 5 years ago are no Ionger used in current ads. The tech stacks ways of working that we aII used a coupIe of years back are painfuIIy out of styIe at this point. There's no chance you can keep up with it unIess you have a deep passion for the fieId. And with deep passion I'm taIking stuff Iike you're doing dev as a hobby on top of your work, you're freeIy and wiIIingIy thinking about IT-related stuff on your vacation and consuming videos and commenting on them. If you're not deepIy passionate about IT when you're working in IT, the business wiII eventuaIIy eat you aIive.
@@GackFinder100% agree , the issue is people take CS just to make web pages . It makes no sense . They have no interest in how an OS works , they hate Linux and CLI, they think SQL is stoopid, they think database normalization is boring , they think IT and cable is BELOW THEM..they think the cloud is just a term . They have no interest in CS books , no interest in learning more . Why did you chose this career if you don’t like IT ????
@@ci6516 honestly, its like everyone just keeps repeating the same "front-end developer" bs over and over again in my college and its annoying. a dude walked in and saw me working on a project and asked me why I'm using a weird os (I was using cmake on Linux ) and telling me to drop c++ bc its old... I've come to the conclusion that lot of cs majors don't actually care about COMPTER science.. they just want to learn react and be a random frontend dev somewhere and THOSE are the ppl that wont get anywhere
@@DingleFlop well I can give my answer to that question. I was a physics major before dropping out for a number of reasons. Spent the next 10 years waiting tables. I went into SWE because it’s the only field in the math/science realm that will hire you based on what you can do (and because I can feel my body wearing down.) No insurance company will hire you as an actuary because you could solve math problems in the interview. You can buy textbooks on OChem, high mathematics, physics, etc. and teach them all to yourself, but nobody will sift through pages of notes and solved problems to vet you for a job. Coding might be the only thing you can do 100% on your own-and with enough effort you can even do it for free (minus the cost of a laptop.) I can literally print MIT’s entire CS curriculum and upload a github project for every line that definitively proves I have that skill. edit: I was 29 when I did a bootcamp-mostly so I had something to put on my resume and for their hiring services. It concluded 2 days before I turned 30. All-in-all, it was overpriced and not as helpful as I’d hoped. However it did at least keep me focused on technologies relevant to the job market (React, various ORM and database tech, etc.) I also restricted my job search down to remote-only jobs, so that made things more difficult. I was 33 by the time I got hired. From 30-33 I decided to bite the bullet and just learn C#. That let me go after jobs with less competition. I absolutely despise Visual Studio, but the language itself is much nicer than I thought it would be-happy I chose it over Java. Plus I can spend my free time learning to make games
@@DingleFlop I was a production worker. Operating automated production lines, some maintanence etc. I just got bored, I felt like there was no growth. But I'm based in Europe and worked for a big Japanese corporation (the manufacturing job) and they agreed to pay for my IT education. Then I got fired by them in the last year of study and had to look for a new job so I decided to aim high and went for Software Engineering jobs. Had no experience to speak of. Eventually I had a choice of 3 employees that wanted to sign a contract with me. Went with a small strat-up bussines. This might not have been the best choice but hindsight is 20/20. Now I'm negotiating to part ways on good terms. I think Europe has not yet reached the IT saturation that US seemingly has.
@@bestopinion9257 for the most part - yes. there are however still opportunities for ppl with no experience. you just have to look for it and not give up.
I love that you were open to sharing choices you personally made that were not the best. I’ve been in the same boat and you earned my respect and a follow for being relatable. I’m currently going into comp sci, and have been feeling a bit uneasy, but you reminded me it’s not where I’ve been, or how old I am while getting started. Thank you❤
There is now an incredible culture of gatekeeping in the tech industry. It's really sad, because it used to be the field that was open to anyone of any background. We've lost that hope and opportunity. I've barely started my journey and I'm already having to reconsider if this is what I'm going to do with my life.
Way back in early 2000s I was a fresh graduate civil engineer. I was immediately headhunted by an IT company, even if I my only encounter of code was from 2 semesters of very basic C and C++. Career shifting was heavily pushed. Nowadays, even the smartest CS grads have trouble finding a job. Way back then, training was handed out, for free, just so companies can get more workers. Nowadays, we have to be skilled enough to hit the ground running
Everyday for the last 10+ years i am so so so happy I pivoted to software. This job is barely a job. Getting great money to solve fun interesting problems and work with teams of smart like minded people.
It is absolutely crazy how much your videos resonate with me, and a lot of people feel the same too. I've been in the industry for about 18 months by now. my first job was a dream, my current one is a nightmare even though some people would kill for the opportunity I have. I am very much in the "doom" phase because job offers are drying up. I saw "Need someone with 10 years of experience in "INSERT TECHNOLOGY" in a production environment" and, seeing as my contract ends in November, I was angry because I thought AI was the reason juniors were no longer in demand. Your videos helped me see things differently and gave me motivation to keep working on my craft, learn how to solve problems instead of thinking in terms of libraries or languages and go into lower level learning and software design so I can understand software instead of just its code.
The only shortcut that leads to big money is having rich, well-connected parents (Aka: inheritance). And that might lead their kids to riches and an easy life, but it doesn't seems to be very fulfilling from the sample of these nepo babies we get information on through the news or social medias.
I couldn't agree with you more! When wealthy mom and dad both pass away, typically at around 85 - 90 y/o, the 60-70 y/o child will receive a large inheritance and them become wealthy and live an easy life, but that 60 y/o nepo baby probably will stop have a fulfilling life.
@@donaldlee6760 Well you are being stupid on purpose. But typically, these kids get money and everything else they might need from their parents. Generally including a diploma and a job as a "manager" of some kind in daddy's (or daddy's friend's) company, and/or a few million to start their own company (but don't tell anyone, they're "self-made"!)
1:54 prime has been a lot more positive about things since leaving Netflix I’ve noticed. In older videos he’s not exactly negative but he kind of puts pressure on people for unfair BS that are just massive barriers to life. There’s been a few times now where he’s been praising positivity, and a few times where he adjusted a semi negative tone stance or response to be more compassionate or to help guide people to success.
AI integrated products are gunna look like my grandma's keyboard from 2009 with a dedicated keycap for "skype". At the time, they tried to spin skype as the future of home telephones, and so she was super excited to have a key that would just open skype to the diel screen to call someone. Now if you click on the key, it does nothing because skype has been written over with electron or something.
I'm a decade into my career, I'm a principal engineer. AI won't take my job any time soon but there's a ton of other reasons that I have and continue to strongly consider switching to a trade. Driving to some remote worksite, putting in some headphones and welding in the heat for 8 hours a day sometimes seems like a step up and I'd probably make the same $. I'd love to then go home and do software dev for fun instead of a soul crushing stupid thing I have to do the wrong way because leadership are dumbasses. They say if you love what you do you'll never work a day in your life, but in reality, if you have to listen to idiots command on high stupid things that go against everything you know to be true about the thing you love, that can suck *a lot*. If I were indifferent with my work, then I could check out and not care.
difference is you get to reject in many interviews, everyday I search for developer role and every one is asking junior java developer with 3-4 year experience, what do I need to build a company then ? what I do men it is miserably painful to live like this.
I have been rejected my so many companies when starting out, and my first dev job payed me 13.75 per hour, I worked there for one year in a half while working part time at a super market to make my ends meet, after year and a half my next job offered be 80k. Not saying folks should do what I did, but I was willing to do what it takes to make it.
Currently job hunting for a new project. The other day I declined a potential offer, because they wanted someone ASAP, like start Aug 1st, but I already gave my word to my current bosses that they can count on me til' the end of August minimum. I was thinking if I should or should not break my word. But I decided to keep it, because I know in the future I will have no regrets and be proud of myself, instead of wondering if I did the wrong thing and second guessing my own damn integrity. (admittedly, the loss is not as big, because in the current situation time is on my side. But I'm still happy that I stuck to my guns even in a small-consequence thing)
Companies will fire you in the blink of an eye, the second there's a downturn. It'll be ruthless. You owe no company your loyalty because they are not loyal to you.
@@aisle_of_viewIt’s not about loyalty to a company. It’s about not burning bridges. Ultimately companies are run by people. You don’t give notice because of company “loyalty”, you do it because you want to keep future opportunities open or you want to ease the transition for coworkers
@@aisle_of_view Oh absolutely yes. And I treat them as such. Perhaps the lack of full context doesn't convey why it was that bit more meaningful in this case, sorry about that.
After 7 years, I finally found my very first entry level iOS job post in the Atlanta area. I applied asap. Got a phone interview tomorrow. Wish me luck Update: it was a scam.
I remember those Turing endless emails asking me for resume just because I solved a small problem on their site. As I heard those guys give you tests (full apps) and never pay or hire.
i think people do forget with junior positions its more about someone taking a shot with you. in the industry you are a nobody. but the expectation is that you are still learning!
Prime, Things are going to get much worse. The number of enrollments for CS in 2023 increased 10% from 2022, and in 2022 it was huge. So, there will be a large surplus of grads (junior positions). It means they graduate in 2026. So, even if this year the number drops slightly, those people are still going to enter workforce, but the number of positions does not grow, in fact, it is shrinking. Which means things aren't going to get better until at least 2028.
23:46 I hard disagree with you on this one. I think that is a very American way of thinking, but I think there are many ways to get a fulfilling life where work is just there for your paycheck. Things like travelling, going on weekend trips family/friends, and hobbies, among others, can be just as fulfilling as work can be. I am lucky enough that my main hobby is also one of the best career options (programming) and that there is enough variety that my hobby projects feel completely different from my work. However, that is not the case for the vast majority people. Having to work 5 days a week moving boxes in a warehouse is not going to be anyone's goal, that does not mean these people cannot have a fulfilling life.
Agreed 100%, personally I only want the bag because I have to live somehow. All of my other hobbies involve doing some private small things that I wouldn't base my career on (playing guitar, playing games, travelling, doing sports, learning languages, learning maths/physics) - could I possibly find something in these areas? Yeah maybe, but for 2x less pay + I believe that by making a hobby my career I would lose the passion for that thing (that's my personal thing)
I'm from eastern europe and being a dev is like one of the jobs that at least pay well and you can live normal life. And it wasn't my dream job at all, but doing art is never going to have same financial return as development is. This does really sound as a very privileged life, every time I hear people say "do what you love long enough and you will have great job and fulfilling life" it always rubs me the wrong way.
I don't think that is what he meant, but I do agree with you, your job is not your fulfillment. I had many different jobs from construction to now coding, and I found fullfilment from all of them.
Wow that hit me hard too, just making me think about loosing those moments with my kids as they grow. Glad you’re able to show your emotions on cam, the real part of being a parent and why it’s so rewarding.
I started coding when I was 30, learned most stuff on my own plus started studying a two-year degree, whilst working a full time job. This was about 4 years ago now, have been working as a dev for 2. My intake on this: If you start late, make sure you really want it, and get ready to work hard for it! I've seen a lot of people getting into code just for the money, to later realize how much time it takes, to finally end up hating it and just getting frustrated.
Why did you really (and I mean really) get into code?
You gotta be here for the fun of it, seeing how it all fits together, for the love to create things, the rush of figuring something out after hours (or days!) of frustration.
Until you land a job, keep creating (and fully completing!) projects, keep learning, get some side jobs if you can, it all adds up. Show the world what you can do!
I have been enjoying your tech videos for many reasons. They always help me feel connected with someone in IT development and engineering. Watching you get emotional about fatherly things was the most wholesome moment of any video I've watched from you so far. I always get deeply emotional about family bonds and stories. Family bonded by blood or not. Even simple commercials or shorts. I also appreciate seeing more men showing more feelings than just anger and testosterone things. Thank you
24:45 It's ironic how he got emotional talking about his dad's death and his own kids, yet shows no mercy for children in Gaza and Palestine, supporting genocide on Twitter. Emotions seem to be a double standard for some people. I'm sick of it.
It's because he doesn't see palestinians as human beings, it's the same with lots of white people and jews. They simply can't have empathy and compassion for darker skinned people.
46, full time job, family, waking up early before my job to work through meta and fcc courses for front end…coding on breaks…I love it and for me it’s a long term goal, I know it’s gonna take time and hard work and I’m here for it. Keep looking forward and keep going…I told myself that at 50 I don’t want to look back and regret not trying and pursuing this career the last four years. I’m not concerned with getting a job right now, I’m trying focus on learning the skill/trade. Keep going!
Thank you for this video. I am 3.5 years in and I feel like the way that I got my job which ignores dsa and things of that nature, and without having learned those things, I feel like I am way behind where I should be. So thank you.
So, I'm 42 and still haven't given up my hope of getting a job as a software developer. And it's exactly like The Prime said, I have a long-term goal of actually becoming a great engineer and a short-term goal of getting hired. And slowly but consistently, day by day, I'm getting better at coding, and being a good person, good father, and husband. Because this is a life. I really appreciated that video and ThePrimeagen's reaction. I also have a false start in my life because of other crazy things I did when I was young and my family situation, but this actually makes me stronger than ever. So no matter what others say, everybody should know themselves better and what they are capable of.
Hey man, thanks for the great video, I have those same reactions with fathers and sons as well, my dad is alive, but unfortunately he never changed his ways, at 4 my mom left him, and although he had came for a birthday or two, is like we're apart, there is a big wall of lost moments, I tried to build bridges, but his problems(drinking, violence) burn all those bridges down, my older brother experience the same with him. I don't have kids yet, but my bro is being the best father I've ever seen to my niece, if god allows it, she will never know how hard it is to live without a father, like we have.
I needed to hear this. I have been laid off twice since I finished my coding boot camp and am now unemployed since May. I’m continuing to learn and grow my skill set and apply to jobs. It’s been tough.
I knew a bit of HTML/CSS but really started coding at 30 and went to uni for 4 years, 1 year searching for a job. Half a year ago I got my first SWE job in a super nice company, earning a respectable salary as a full stack developer. I still can't believe I get paid for coding on interesting projects 8h a day.
I saw a video recently on the way you play video games is the the way you live life and it was so real to me. I love to explore and learn new things but I'm quick to move on when frustrated and that is a mirror of my life too
24:50 I almost cried! That's what I'm feeling right now, having a wife and kids slows down my career, but on the other hand the joy I got with having them surpass the Euraka feeling of software development.
I had a similar experience to your test thing with math, but with a CS course that involved C. It was incredibly easy, since I'd gone through the K&R book 6 months earlier. I finished in 14 mins (of 60 allotted). Prof thought I was coming up to ask a question, but I handed it to him and went home to take a nap. I got 100% on the test, zero points off whatsoever. Apparently next person took 35 mins. This was also one of the rare courses I was in where profs wrote the top 3 scores on the board. Man I felt cool that day. I wasn't cool, but I felt as if I was.
Love you Prime not because you need a hug while you are barely crying but because we all are in the same boat and you are showing truly a honest side of you.
Turned 34 this year. At the end of 2020 I had been laid off from my job as a weld lead, January 2021 I was taking online courses, got another weld job, April 2022 started as a contractor in ETL, December 2022 got hired into the company on devops, Spring 2023 got my bachelors in game development, still working in the same position. Got married and bought a house in that time to. I was working a full time job, finished a degree in 2 1/2 years, and had been programming in between welding, school, and time with my wife. And to boot, I still talk to some coworkers who are still contractors, they are younger than me, actually went to college early on for computer science, and... still know about as much as they did when I was working on the same team as them.
Prime, this was one of your best streams. You got me at 24:45. As a fellow dad, that thought is in my head all of the time, and keeps me grounded when I get lost in the editor. Programming is what we do. Not who we are. And to the point of putting the work in, that was the most powerful life lesson that I had to come to grips with. Put in the work, and the results will follow i.e. "Choose Your Hard."
I have never once thought Prime sounded like Jordan Peterson. But after he said it, that's all I can hear. Especially when he said "you should never steal hope from someone."
For full-stack which do you prefer, Python or JS? I feel like I've been language hopping from Python to JS and can't figure out what I want to study... I really want to do backend development and just don't know what to learn...
Cherry picking like 5 success stories based on zero-insight solutions when there’s tens of thousands of people at the end of their rope is kind of sickening
Painting the narrative “Don’t worry, look, it pays off” by casually visiting like 5 people who reported things randomly working out is a definitionally non representative sample, it’s cherry picking. Call it unintentional cherry picking if you want, the misrepresentation is still there.
I’m a pilot. I spent the last 870 days training. I’m 100k spent, 10 hour training days. You get what you give and you have to give it your all. I’m shocked at how much I can relate to engineers.
It was serious whiplash to hear a speech about how you should work hard to learn from the same guy who told me that nobody cared how hard I worked like three videos ago (in my personal viewing order). I agree with everything said in this video, but I was surprised to hear it after that last one.
I really hope that in the near future the vast majority of new people in software development will be engineers coming from other engineering disciplines, already equipped with rigour and an engineering way of thinking. The junior "software developers" who are clueless about everything (software development included) were the most destructive force in this industry, and were never really needed to start with.
In the late 90s everyone in my father’s industry (industrial controls) was being told there jobs would go away bc of globalization. A lot of his colleagues quit. They told there kids not pursue the field, I didn’t listen. Anyone who stuck around was greatly rewarded by the mid-2010 we were commanding a premium salary. Still today experienced IC engineers have plenty of options. For software I think the cycle will take less time. Industrial plants take years to plan and build. Software has a quicker turnaround. Don’t listen to these “experts” that have an agenda. Prime is right, engineering is a craft. It will be needed today and in the future.
You're a reference for lots of people today and I also like you a lot. Thanks for share these words with us and explain us how to deal with what's most important. Thx mustache bro!
Im losing more and more hope. Im graduting next year and the market is still shit and i doubt its gonna get any better. I dont think well see these job increases with the economy still being so dog shit.
All it takes is one company to give you a break. Then make friendships with your fellow developers, when they jump to other companies they'll recommend you. And you do the same for them. That's how it works. Be easy to work with, don't be the guy your colleagues regret seeing in the morning.
That take at 16:30 is one of my favourites of all time. You dont need raw talent to be really good at something, just perseverance. Uunderstand that when you see someone crushing it, they have one or the other, maybe a bit of both. But when you see those people at the top, the ones considered gods of the community, they have both the hard work part *and* opportunity. Nobody gwts there on raw talent alone.
Your take is really good.These takes from these people saying that coding is going away, it just feels elitest. And I really appreciate your point about software engineers being someone that can solve problems and not something dependent on using the trendiest thing. I was really late to all the JavaScript framework stuff, and I felt like I was doing something wrong by doing what I was doing. I've adapted to the whole framework job landscape, but I don't see anything wrong with sticking to a niche for a little while. I was still building really cool things.
As someone who got first job 4 months ago, i can say this video is very very very very good. Grinding a lot of different things and they in the end help me a lot. Fullstack is a must now. You cannot work as frontend anymore
13:10 A thing anyone in any stage of their career in tech needs to understand is that, unless you are the absolute best at something, there will always be someone better than you. Good is good enough.
AI is much useful as guide, and not to replace developers. So I was doing this UI for my new portfolio and asked gpt to create a custom slider. It delivers but fortunately not good enough. Edit: Love it when prime says hard work beats talent because I'm that person who needs to learn a thing multiple times before I get it 16:53
Everyone needs to learn things more than once to one extent or another. Properly "getting" something always takes some understanding prior to learning that thing, which can come from learning related things, but often is easiest to get from learning and relearning that thing. The way in which people go through this process looks different from person to person, but revisiting topics with greater understanding benifits everyone at virtually every stage of learning that thing, including the stages before you can do much/anything with it, and the stages of near-mastery. To give a couple of examples from my own life, with polar opposite initial skill levels (after learning once), one could "get" algebra immediately, never have problems with the early concepts, not need to revisit anything or have it explained, and still benifit from revisiting it later to notice that variables and functions really aren't all that different in algebra (or most math to do with manipulating equations, for that matter), amongst other things (seeing linear algebra in terms of matricies helps understand both better in the early stages of learning the latter, and I'm sure there's more I don't know or aren't thinking of). One can completely fail to understand what a C++ coroutine is on one's first attempt, and still benifit from re-reading the cppreference page over and over and over (ideally on different days) until enough concepts stick that they start to make sense together. Learning things multiple times over benifits everyone, and no one ever truly "gets" something on their first try, unless it's legitimately simple/easy.
Bro, I had tears when Primeagen was taling about Leto Atreides. Thats such a big feeling. Going to be better, and going to work on myself to be better, respect to you.
I studied Business Administration and Psychology in college. I worked for a couple of years but didn't feel happy with my life. After that, I decided to switch to another industry that would be more fulfilling for me and found software programming through a friend. I quit my job and, for 10 months, studied and practiced software all day, 10-12 hours a day, until I found a job working with Java and JavaScript. Right now, I am 1 and a half years into my first developer job and close to my second promotion. Everybody tells me that right now it is more difficult, but I know it is not impossible! You can do it if you're determined.
My first paid work in the industry came this year, in 2024. It does happen. Just keep learning, keep applying, get rejected (or in my case ignored), and you can make it happen.
Jr Engs won't disappear but the nature of entry level jobs will change. More than ever your goal is to start doing the things to make you a Sr Eng, to be ready when the lack of juniors leaves a gap. Add in some business domain knowledge, picking an area of focus. Become better than the pack at prompt engineering. Don't be a jack of all trades, but master multiple complementary areas of knowledge that go beyond just learning to code.
@ThePrimeTime Be kinder to yourself. You are to others. Yourself deserves to be treated well too. You’re doing great. I love watching your special breed of programming related edutainment, and I’m not even a programmer.
My dad died when I was 6 and I know exactly what you mean, and yes, had a hard time staying composed on that scene. Crazy how I never considered other people would go through the same.
I’ve been trying to get a job for years.. I dropped out of college and 6 years later finally got a job. I was t as serious as I should have been for a while, and it took me locking my self away for a year on my own stuff and basically working as an intern for free on another project for 6 month. Getting that first step is rough right now but worth it
I made it in 7 months... I feel incredibly lucky that I had a senior friend that took SO MUCH TIME to teach me and never gave up even when I felt kinda low on motivation.
People talking about there's no junior level jobs are talking with facts..but people like him who just spreading false positivity like "yah keep hustling, job market isn't bad you are bad if you are being fired or not getting job"
Stumbled upon this channel a day or two ago, But what you do is amazing. You shed light in the cave of hopelessness by giving the realities of the world, but optimism and a realistic approach. Keep doing what you do
There's so much more that goes into software than people think. It's not just the code, communication, understanding patterns reading output, finding documentation. Once you can do all those, even if it's primarily in Javascript, congratulations, you have just levelled up.
"There's is gonna come a point, when I wake early, there is not gonna be a kid on the couch". This is such a take away that it is also making me almost cry when I think about it.
I started learning Python about.. 3, maybe 4 months ago. Am 45, and decided I wanted out of the hardware side of IT. I NEEDED to hear this, this morning. Thank you for the pick me up!
Because I expect junior engineers to watch this video and at 8:34 will think "WOW Prime didn't know Objective C and XCode?" you're right, he didn't. BUT he did knew what multi-threading is, and how to implement it in another language. He also knew what caching is, and how to implement it in another language. He basically picked up a language similar to ones he was already familiar with, and learned how to use an IDE. He didn't learn what multi-threading and caching is while working on the project. And that's what having solid CS fundamentals is about.
If I'm being honest, I really feel like I am stuck in a spot of only being able to even conceptualize small goals. Deep down I want to have more than that but it doesn't feel possible so I focus on the small things and tell myself "Just figure X out and THEN you can focus on something more fulfilling, something bigger." I dropped out of university because I didn't like what I was doing and if I stayed, I probably would have failed out anyways. Since then, I have gotten 2 associates degrees, had a dead-end job for nearly 5 years where I never made above minimum wage, and am now looking at the potentiality of a 3rd associates degree just to try and find a path. All I'm doing is spinning my wheels trying to find a way to get a decent job that I don't despise so that I can move out and be away from the toxic home environment that I'm in. This isn't the place for any of this, but sometimes something just resonates and it is nice to let things out a bit to complete strangers.
Thank you for this video. I'm not even a junior yet and the doom and gloom thing really got to me, especially when it came from the COP of Nvidia. My brain was constantly trying to convince myself that this was a waste of time and i should do something else with my life since i'm already 30. I didn't even think that these people who are saying that "juniors will die" could be wrong, and the CEO of Nvidia just wanted to sell more GPUs..
Never trust the CEO of any public company. Their job is basically to fleece new investors into providing stock value for existing investors. People like that should not be trusted. Many CEOs are admirable salesmen, but it's still their job to say whatever will separate you from your money, not what they actually believe.
2:38 The thing is, even if in the future we "program" with natural languages, the need for precisely defining what you want the computer to do will converge into what will effectively be a programming language anyway. The syntax of programming is _not_ the hard part.
@20:58; I think that's ignoring that long term goals are Terminal Goals - goals you want to reach -, whereas smaller goals are the Instrumental Goals that you want in order to achieve your Terminal Goals. "Being a better engineer" is a Terminal Goal. "Getting a job as a junior engineer" is an Instrumental Goal, because it is *one* of the steps towards becoming a better engineer. Similarly, as Robert Miles pointed out in his video predating the LLM hype on A.I. safety research, economists can often predict what someone will do, regardless of their Terminal Goal, because they can predict that the person will have an Instrumental Goal of "Get more money", because that's a common enough goal that people need to live in a capitalistic society that requires money for just about anything that you want. I wouldn't belabour people focusing on the Instrumental Goals - they have the Terminal Goal in mind, but it's not the all-or-nothing goal.
What a video! My eyes got watery. When I gratuated college on my 2nd attempt at 29 I had my son in one arm and my soon to be wife with my unborn daugter in the other. Getting through school was tough with so much outside reponsibilites. 4 years later, now unemployed has been tough but I will keep on grinding.
"The harder I work, the luckier I get"
The harder you work, the better prepared you are when an opportunity arises! Hence the feeling of being lucky
keep on keeping on brother. You've got this
Your phrase reminds me of one of my favourite Protest the Hero lyrics: "Diligence is the mother of good luck" which I think applies quite well to this topic
Hope youll get there,man never let down just act wise in adversities
you can’t work while you are unemployed though
OMG. Primeagen is just an amazing human being. I learned more from his take than I did from my own video.
Can you please give plumber video
Hey bro, you helped me get a job by reinforcing the effort required. Thank you!!!
@@BusinessWolf1 that is awesome. 🙂
@@Sky-yy Title: Poor man's way to get rich. Not the easy way but it works. Channel: brass house
@@Sky-yy th-cam.com/video/GyDKf9O32zk/w-d-xo.html
AI has nothing to do with the lack of Jr dev jobs. I have worked in IT ops for over 20 years, there has been a standard no hire for Jr engineers on the ops side for at least 15 years. Teams have been squeezed to be 1/5th of their size, there is no room to train or babysit anyone. we only hire Architects or Sr engineers. And this predates AI by a decade. My advice has always been build a lab, get the certs, do what you need to do to understand the technology then put it on your resume, don't lie outright, but don't volunteer this is your first IT job. And my favorite misinformed lies are the people that tell beginners to start in the help desk or service desk. Those people will never get hired. Its sad, and it does not just affect IT ops, it affects every department, Wall Steet does not want to support companies who plan for the long term, they prioritize this quarters earning over long term gains, and they try to extract max value from every company like a bunch of pirates plundering the future for short term gains now. It takes an exceptionally strong CEO and executive team to fight against the big institutional investors corrupting the boards of these companies.
don't bother, the survivorship bias keeps the hopes n dreams alive and strong
You are right. Section 174 is*
Eventually there will be no more Sr. Level developers because you can’t get experience as a Jr.
Man all this shit people have to go through to find work is bullshit. I stopped looking for a job, I'm learning to code for codes sake and to build things people can use. All the HR games, and such is total bullshit. Yes I can see why companies would not hire a JR but you have to start somewhere and the fact is if everyone told the truth. Many jr devs will go YEARS and never find work, and some may NEVER get a job at all. It's all down to whom you know and can they get you in the door. For most people it's a total waste of time.
This is currently happening where I work too, I felt that team shrinkage hard man….our org got a new tech lead and bro said no junior devs in the entire org like huh 😂, and guess what? Does the work get split? Nope. 5 people getting work that should be split between around 10 people.
The problem is not finding a job. The problem is staying alive long enough to find one.
Man, this is dark. Hope we all find a place to contribute meaningfully in the tech space. Praying.
😂
halting problem
Freelance, freelance, freelance, and don't quit your day job.
Create your own job ...
I started learning to code earlier this year. I'm 39. I find it so incredibly encouraging to hear about other people who were successful picking up the skill at my age.
Same here. After getting every certificate I still can't get a job. I feel it couldn't be the worst time to get into it... I mean if you have a degree great you're probably going to get a job. But idk about boot camp to programmer...
Don't believe the hype bros saying that AI will take all the jobs. AI is more likely to replace middle management than engineers. Keep working hard, it will be worth learning!
Same here. 39 started to code. Very difficult to get a job, especially because I have a terrible CV (but very great coding skills with real projects to back this statement up).
@@paulholsters7932 How is your CV terrible if you have real projects?
It's hard to find jobs for anyone right now.
I am a Staff Engineer getting close to 30 years of experience and stay very current with tech.
I've been blind applying to jobs and only one callback.
Recently I posted on LinkedIn to my huge network of people and have gotten a lot of responses.
I think this will be the lifeline that gets me back into a job; not being choosy so I'll probably end up in a Sr role again. Just need to get income again and figure out the rest later.
I dropped out of university doing computer science because I didn't feel like it was what I really wanted to do. I think that's just because of how the degree was structured with so much theory that just wasn't applicable to anything in the real world. Spent the next decade or so doing whatever and then eventually went back to school in my late twenties. I went to a technical college. Got a 2-year diploma and landed a job within 3 to 6 months. My first software job was after 30 and now I'm making crazy money at a job that I love.
lfg! show em how its done matty!
Glad you decided to get back to me, that has been me, going back and fourth before committing. The only regret is believing that I was too late, it kept me from starting in my late twenties. Then I finally decided to start seriously at 35.
@@CodingAfterThirty I've always had the mantra that it'll be X years later anyway. Might as well do the thing instead of waiting
Sorry for my english is bad..What is your job now?
@@AbdomohamedEssam lead software dev
I didn't begin coding til I was 28, was 34 before I got to don the title of Software Engineer, and a whole lot of shit went down in between. When I got the call with an offer I was living in a red roof inn with 2 nights stay left, $6 in my pocket, and wondering if not offing myself had been the right choice. Literally went from homeless, hopeless, and destitute to 6-figures overnight. It's fucking rough out here.
I'm really happy for you. I'm getting to the wondering stage. Began at 30, currently 32 and still applying
Give me a little hope, I've been jobless for a year and a half, studied software dev, but no where is hiring junior devs, and companies are laying people off a bunch, I'm just slowly working on projects but it's been a struggle, gpt has helped with learning and direction but it's still a struggle
@@joshuamalcolm2807 What do you know so far?
I think employers are shooting in their own foot, if they think they will replace ppl long term with AI, good luck to them. In 10-15 years where there will be lack of new IT workforce because new juniors are not hired and trained, i will gladly offer my skills for a big lump of $$ :)
All CS people are exemplary learners. Based on this, any one struggling to get hired should pivot to another industry for one to three years. They will learn quickly, excel at it, promote fast, pay their bills, pick up new skills, and when (if) the industry returns to normal, they can flow back in.
@@xCheddarB0b42x Another problem is those AI stars telling ppl not to pursue CS since "programmers" will no longer be needed ;). So current CS students may be good in 2-3 years but definetly CS and IT is no longer considered one of better career paths that it used to be, so less ppl will try to pursue it, leaving the issue of lack of workforce still valid imo...Again...more work for us :)
The reality though is that even if a company did train juniors, there would still be a lack of seniors for that company.. because the number of seniors around is an industry wide problem, but whether or not juniors are being trained is a company decision. An individual company will have basically no effect on the industry as a whole, so from their perspective there is no upside to training juniors (whether that particular company trains juniors or not will have no measurable effect on the cost of seniors either now or in the future). Companies don't make decisions because of what effect it has on the industry as a whole, they make decisions based only off of what effects it has on their company - doing things otherwise would be like asking a person to take a pay cut so that other people that have nothing to do with them can get extra money.
Framing it as a "companies are so short-sighted" is just not accurate. Companies that care about long term growth would still make the same decision, because it's basically asking the company to act like a charity where they suffer the losses so that someone else can profit off of it.
@@asdfqwerty14587 Its not a charity, its an investment. This is a never ending cycle, we lack seniors, but we dont want to invest and train juniors to become seniors and the cycle goes on...good for me i can negotiate higher rates :)
@@asdfqwerty14587 the one issue that I see if there are no juniors there will not be any seniors.
The CEO of NVidia says "stop teaching kids to code" - but then, he's an EXECUTIVE (not technical) in a HARDWARE company. Ignore that noise.
To be fair, he's a pretty talented engineer/designer who used to work at AMD as a microprocessor designer and went through hard times building nVidia up to be the powerhouse they are now. During nVidia's hardest times in the late 90s, he would have contributed more as an engineer/designer than as a fancy tech founder.
His talent and experience don't prevent him from making misleading statements that benefit him and his company, though.
@@r.k.vignesh7832 that, and in spite of his background, being removed from that involvement due to his role, means he's not in touch with where things are really at. Again, ignore that noise.
Altman also said "don't bother training your own AI..." - it's almost if there's a conflict of interest in the advices
what’s the context? why did he say to stop?
@@splashjayy Because AI will code for us, thanks to the great GPUs his company sells...
"I would take all these words and jumble them into something that appears like a sentence but not actually say anything"
- ThePrimeagen is a self-professed LLM in a meat suit
Man i teared up when you mentioned your boys. I'm a dad. My dad was absent. You're a great father figure, and they are super fortunate to have you in their life.
Dad's are so important. I grew up with a terrible father and escaped the first chance I had, when I have kids I am not giving them the same horrible start to life. Fathers are so important, I hope and wish you have a great time and relationship with your kids!
I got my job at 46 years old. Started learning 2.5 years prior and got lucky. Idea is to never stop learning.
Heck yeah dude! That's awesome!
2 and a half years ago the market was very different. Even a sponge would get hired as a junior SWE back then.
Nonetheless, kudos to you. I wasn't lucky enough to get in the market at that time.
@@sohigh7433 I got my job less than a year ago.
@@sohigh7433 wtf dude
Thanks for this. I’m 39 and finally got the courage this year to tell my self doubt to f**k off and pursue the dream(s) I wish I started many years ago. Your videos usually hit home but this one really hit home. Thank you so much 🙏
I graduated in December of 2023 with a CS degree from a decent university. I was rejected from every single internship and job I applied to up until November, 2023 where I finally got an offer. Never give up, keep grinding, it will pay off!!!!
I think you have an off-by-one error there. 😉
I relate to the part where he says he just worked hard but wasnt the smartest in the room. In a room full of engineers, im average at best. I simpy put in the time. Its all i think about. I have code dreams / nightmares lol. People tell me to watch out for burnout, but bro my past career was being a ditch digger. Aint no rest until i think Im actually good at this shit.
Lol, I still feel like I am the dumbest person in the room, that is why I keep learning things everyday. But for that is the fun part about coding.
@@CodingAfterThirtyAfter 15 years, I still feel dumber than many of my coworkers. For me, it's always been about finding at least *one* unique value add. Sometimes that's finding the part of the stack everyone hates and learning the shit out of it. Others it's been focusing on being the guy the client team/product team can ask questions and ensuring they get answers/solutions.
Whatever it is, I know I'm useful without dealing with imposter syndrome or constant "competition".
If entry level jobs are only open to the people who are deeply passionate then thats a saturated field.
What six figure plus entry level field aren’t saturated?!
It doesn't have to be saturated. When given a choice between 5 dollars and 10 dollars for free, people will always choose 10 (or both if you wanna defeat the philosophical point :P ). Companies will always maximize for the best bang of their buck, just like consumers do. It's just the way it works.
And here's another hot take: It was always like that. People switched careers FROM programming TO something else because they realized how much work they have to put in to keep themselves updated since 2005. This isn't new.
No. Rather, it's a fieId in constant fIux, in which you can onIy succeed Iong term if you're constantIy up to date. AIot of the buzzwords used in recruitment ads 5 years ago are no Ionger used in current ads. The tech stacks ways of working that we aII used a coupIe of years back are painfuIIy out of styIe at this point. There's no chance you can keep up with it unIess you have a deep passion for the fieId. And with deep passion I'm taIking stuff Iike you're doing dev as a hobby on top of your work, you're freeIy and wiIIingIy thinking about IT-related stuff on your vacation and consuming videos and commenting on them. If you're not deepIy passionate about IT when you're working in IT, the business wiII eventuaIIy eat you aIive.
@@GackFinder100% agree , the issue is people take CS just to make web pages . It makes no sense . They have no interest in how an OS works , they hate Linux and CLI, they think SQL is stoopid, they think database normalization is boring , they think IT and cable is BELOW THEM..they think the cloud is just a term . They have no interest in CS books , no interest in learning more .
Why did you chose this career if you don’t like IT ????
@@ci6516 honestly, its like everyone just keeps repeating the same "front-end developer" bs over and over again in my college and its annoying. a dude walked in and saw me working on a project and asked me why I'm using a weird os (I was using cmake on Linux ) and telling me to drop c++ bc its old... I've come to the conclusion that lot of cs majors don't actually care about COMPTER science.. they just want to learn react and be a random frontend dev somewhere and THOSE are the ppl that wont get anywhere
I started learning to code at 36. Got the junior job at 38. Now I'm 41 and am in the process of switching jobs. It's doable folks!
What made you change your mind? What did you do before?
@@DingleFlop well I can give my answer to that question. I was a physics major before dropping out for a number of reasons. Spent the next 10 years waiting tables.
I went into SWE because it’s the only field in the math/science realm that will hire you based on what you can do (and because I can feel my body wearing down.) No insurance company will hire you as an actuary because you could solve math problems in the interview. You can buy textbooks on OChem, high mathematics, physics, etc. and teach them all to yourself, but nobody will sift through pages of notes and solved problems to vet you for a job.
Coding might be the only thing you can do 100% on your own-and with enough effort you can even do it for free (minus the cost of a laptop.) I can literally print MIT’s entire CS curriculum and upload a github project for every line that definitively proves I have that skill.
edit: I was 29 when I did a bootcamp-mostly so I had something to put on my resume and for their hiring services. It concluded 2 days before I turned 30. All-in-all, it was overpriced and not as helpful as I’d hoped. However it did at least keep me focused on technologies relevant to the job market (React, various ORM and database tech, etc.)
I also restricted my job search down to remote-only jobs, so that made things more difficult. I was 33 by the time I got hired. From 30-33 I decided to bite the bullet and just learn C#. That let me go after jobs with less competition. I absolutely despise Visual Studio, but the language itself is much nicer than I thought it would be-happy I chose it over Java. Plus I can spend my free time learning to make games
@@DingleFlop I was a production worker. Operating automated production lines, some maintanence etc. I just got bored, I felt like there was no growth. But I'm based in Europe and worked for a big Japanese corporation (the manufacturing job) and they agreed to pay for my IT education. Then I got fired by them in the last year of study and had to look for a new job so I decided to aim high and went for Software Engineering jobs. Had no experience to speak of. Eventually I had a choice of 3 employees that wanted to sign a contract with me. Went with a small strat-up bussines. This might not have been the best choice but hindsight is 20/20. Now I'm negotiating to part ways on good terms.
I think Europe has not yet reached the IT saturation that US seemingly has.
@@slatanek Yes but they still ask for seniors only, even here in Europe. Like "junior with 5 years experience".
@@bestopinion9257 for the most part - yes. there are however still opportunities for ppl with no experience. you just have to look for it and not give up.
I love that you were open to sharing choices you personally made that were not the best.
I’ve been in the same boat and you earned my respect and a follow for being relatable. I’m currently going into comp sci, and have been feeling a bit uneasy, but you reminded me it’s not where I’ve been, or how old I am while getting started. Thank you❤
There is now an incredible culture of gatekeeping in the tech industry. It's really sad, because it used to be the field that was open to anyone of any background. We've lost that hope and opportunity. I've barely started my journey and I'm already having to reconsider if this is what I'm going to do with my life.
Way back in early 2000s I was a fresh graduate civil engineer. I was immediately headhunted by an IT company, even if I my only encounter of code was from 2 semesters of very basic C and C++. Career shifting was heavily pushed.
Nowadays, even the smartest CS grads have trouble finding a job. Way back then, training was handed out, for free, just so companies can get more workers. Nowadays, we have to be skilled enough to hit the ground running
Everyday for the last 10+ years i am so so so happy I pivoted to software. This job is barely a job. Getting great money to solve fun interesting problems and work with teams of smart like minded people.
Do u have open position for full stack typescript dev ?
It is absolutely crazy how much your videos resonate with me, and a lot of people feel the same too. I've been in the industry for about 18 months by now. my first job was a dream, my current one is a nightmare even though some people would kill for the opportunity I have. I am very much in the "doom" phase because job offers are drying up. I saw "Need someone with 10 years of experience in "INSERT TECHNOLOGY" in a production environment" and, seeing as my contract ends in November, I was angry because I thought AI was the reason juniors were no longer in demand.
Your videos helped me see things differently and gave me motivation to keep working on my craft, learn how to solve problems instead of thinking in terms of libraries or languages and go into lower level learning and software design so I can understand software instead of just its code.
The only shortcut that leads to big money is having rich, well-connected parents (Aka: inheritance).
And that might lead their kids to riches and an easy life, but it doesn't seems to be very fulfilling from the sample of these nepo babies we get information on through the news or social medias.
I couldn't agree with you more! When wealthy mom and dad both pass away, typically at around 85 - 90 y/o, the 60-70 y/o child will receive a large inheritance and them become wealthy and live an easy life, but that 60 y/o nepo baby probably will stop have a fulfilling life.
@@donaldlee6760 Well you are being stupid on purpose.
But typically, these kids get money and everything else they might need from their parents. Generally including a diploma and a job as a "manager" of some kind in daddy's (or daddy's friend's) company, and/or a few million to start their own company (but don't tell anyone, they're "self-made"!)
I mean even having educated parents is an insane advantage
1:54 prime has been a lot more positive about things since leaving Netflix I’ve noticed.
In older videos he’s not exactly negative but he kind of puts pressure on people for unfair BS that are just massive barriers to life.
There’s been a few times now where he’s been praising positivity, and a few times where he adjusted a semi negative tone stance or response to be more compassionate or to help guide people to success.
AI integrated products are gunna look like my grandma's keyboard from 2009 with a dedicated keycap for "skype". At the time, they tried to spin skype as the future of home telephones, and so she was super excited to have a key that would just open skype to the diel screen to call someone. Now if you click on the key, it does nothing because skype has been written over with electron or something.
I'm a decade into my career, I'm a principal engineer. AI won't take my job any time soon but there's a ton of other reasons that I have and continue to strongly consider switching to a trade. Driving to some remote worksite, putting in some headphones and welding in the heat for 8 hours a day sometimes seems like a step up and I'd probably make the same $. I'd love to then go home and do software dev for fun instead of a soul crushing stupid thing I have to do the wrong way because leadership are dumbasses.
They say if you love what you do you'll never work a day in your life, but in reality, if you have to listen to idiots command on high stupid things that go against everything you know to be true about the thing you love, that can suck *a lot*. If I were indifferent with my work, then I could check out and not care.
I used to work as a mason doing stone work, I really loved it. But then I fell in love with coding.
difference is you get to reject in many interviews, everyday I search for developer role and every one is asking junior java developer with 3-4 year experience, what do I need to build a company then ? what I do men it is miserably painful to live like this.
I have been rejected my so many companies when starting out, and my first dev job payed me 13.75 per hour, I worked there for one year in a half while working part time at a super market to make my ends meet, after year and a half my next job offered be 80k. Not saying folks should do what I did, but I was willing to do what it takes to make it.
sounds like you have a skill problem then, everyone can get jobs with no problem
bruh
objectively false, but alright.
"everyone can get jobs with no problem" That's just objectively false.
Are senior devs just supposed to walk out of a wormhole?
In the executive mind, they will come from unpaid internships.
Yes, they are supposed to spawn in and work for 1/5 of their original salary
The implication is that there's enough already to stay alive long enough to replace them all with more advanced models
they respawn
Currently job hunting for a new project. The other day I declined a potential offer, because they wanted someone ASAP, like start Aug 1st, but I already gave my word to my current bosses that they can count on me til' the end of August minimum.
I was thinking if I should or should not break my word. But I decided to keep it, because I know in the future I will have no regrets and be proud of myself, instead of wondering if I did the wrong thing and second guessing my own damn integrity.
(admittedly, the loss is not as big, because in the current situation time is on my side. But I'm still happy that I stuck to my guns even in a small-consequence thing)
Companies will fire you in the blink of an eye, the second there's a downturn. It'll be ruthless. You owe no company your loyalty because they are not loyal to you.
@@aisle_of_viewIt’s not about loyalty to a company. It’s about not burning bridges.
Ultimately companies are run by people. You don’t give notice because of company “loyalty”, you do it because you want to keep future opportunities open or you want to ease the transition for coworkers
@@aisle_of_view Oh absolutely yes. And I treat them as such. Perhaps the lack of full context doesn't convey why it was that bit more meaningful in this case, sorry about that.
After 7 years, I finally found my very first entry level iOS job post in the Atlanta area. I applied asap. Got a phone interview tomorrow. Wish me luck
Update: it was a scam.
I am so sorry man.
thats sucks :((
I remember those Turing endless emails asking me for resume just because I solved a small problem on their site. As I heard those guys give you tests (full apps) and never pay or hire.
I never saw (heard) the Jordan Peterson connection but now that I have I can't unsee it
i think people do forget with junior positions its more about someone taking a shot with you. in the industry you are a nobody. but the expectation is that you are still learning!
Prime,
Things are going to get much worse. The number of enrollments for CS in 2023 increased 10% from 2022, and in 2022 it was huge. So, there will be a large surplus of grads (junior positions). It means they graduate in 2026. So, even if this year the number drops slightly, those people are still going to enter workforce, but the number of positions does not grow, in fact, it is shrinking. Which means things aren't going to get better until at least 2028.
By 2028, AI is going to be decent. By 2034, it could be AGI time.
23:46 I hard disagree with you on this one. I think that is a very American way of thinking, but I think there are many ways to get a fulfilling life where work is just there for your paycheck. Things like travelling, going on weekend trips family/friends, and hobbies, among others, can be just as fulfilling as work can be. I am lucky enough that my main hobby is also one of the best career options (programming) and that there is enough variety that my hobby projects feel completely different from my work. However, that is not the case for the vast majority people. Having to work 5 days a week moving boxes in a warehouse is not going to be anyone's goal, that does not mean these people cannot have a fulfilling life.
I just disagree with being an American way of thinking, this is just liberal thinking.
Agreed 100%, personally I only want the bag because I have to live somehow. All of my other hobbies involve doing some private small things that I wouldn't base my career on (playing guitar, playing games, travelling, doing sports, learning languages, learning maths/physics) - could I possibly find something in these areas? Yeah maybe, but for 2x less pay + I believe that by making a hobby my career I would lose the passion for that thing (that's my personal thing)
I'm from eastern europe and being a dev is like one of the jobs that at least pay well and you can live normal life. And it wasn't my dream job at all, but doing art is never going to have same financial return as development is. This does really sound as a very privileged life, every time I hear people say "do what you love long enough and you will have great job and fulfilling life" it always rubs me the wrong way.
I don't think that is what he meant, but I do agree with you, your job is not your fulfillment. I had many different jobs from construction to now coding, and I found fullfilment from all of them.
I've got nothing in my heart but love for you, man! I started teaching myself to code at 36. Let's go!!!
Let's go, you got this.
You got this man! ❤
Wow that hit me hard too, just making me think about loosing those moments with my kids as they grow.
Glad you’re able to show your emotions on cam, the real part of being a parent and why it’s so rewarding.
I started coding when I was 30,
learned most stuff on my own plus started studying a two-year degree, whilst working a full time job.
This was about 4 years ago now, have been working as a dev for 2.
My intake on this:
If you start late, make sure you really want it, and get ready to work hard for it!
I've seen a lot of people getting into code just for the money, to later realize how much time it takes, to finally end up hating it and just getting frustrated.
Why did you really (and I mean really) get into code?
You gotta be here for the fun of it, seeing how it all fits together, for the love to create things, the rush of figuring something out after hours (or days!) of frustration.
Until you land a job, keep creating (and fully completing!) projects, keep learning, get some side jobs if you can, it all adds up.
Show the world what you can do!
I have been enjoying your tech videos for many reasons. They always help me feel connected with someone in IT development and engineering.
Watching you get emotional about fatherly things was the most wholesome moment of any video I've watched from you so far.
I always get deeply emotional about family bonds and stories. Family bonded by blood or not. Even simple commercials or shorts.
I also appreciate seeing more men showing more feelings than just anger and testosterone things.
Thank you
24:45 It's ironic how he got emotional talking about his dad's death and his own kids, yet shows no mercy for children in Gaza and Palestine, supporting genocide on Twitter. Emotions seem to be a double standard for some people. I'm sick of it.
It's because he doesn't see palestinians as human beings, it's the same with lots of white people and jews. They simply can't have empathy and compassion for darker skinned people.
46, full time job, family, waking up early before my job to work through meta and fcc courses for front end…coding on breaks…I love it and for me it’s a long term goal, I know it’s gonna take time and hard work and I’m here for it. Keep looking forward and keep going…I told myself that at 50 I don’t want to look back and regret not trying and pursuing this career the last four years. I’m not concerned with getting a job right now, I’m trying focus on learning the skill/trade. Keep going!
Thank you for this video. I am 3.5 years in and I feel like the way that I got my job which ignores dsa and things of that nature, and without having learned those things, I feel like I am way behind where I should be. So thank you.
Took me 15 years to get to my first coding job. The fact I started with coding when I was 9 might explain it, though.
So, I'm 42 and still haven't given up my hope of getting a job as a software developer. And it's exactly like The Prime said, I have a long-term goal of actually becoming a great engineer and a short-term goal of getting hired. And slowly but consistently, day by day, I'm getting better at coding, and being a good person, good father, and husband. Because this is a life. I really appreciated that video and ThePrimeagen's reaction. I also have a false start in my life because of other crazy things I did when I was young and my family situation, but this actually makes me stronger than ever. So no matter what others say, everybody should know themselves better and what they are capable of.
Hey man, thanks for the great video, I have those same reactions with fathers and sons as well, my dad is alive, but unfortunately he never changed his ways, at 4 my mom left him, and although he had came for a birthday or two, is like we're apart, there is a big wall of lost moments, I tried to build bridges, but his problems(drinking, violence) burn all those bridges down, my older brother experience the same with him. I don't have kids yet, but my bro is being the best father I've ever seen to my niece, if god allows it, she will never know how hard it is to live without a father, like we have.
I needed to hear this. I have been laid off twice since I finished my coding boot camp and am now unemployed since May. I’m continuing to learn and grow my skill set and apply to jobs. It’s been tough.
I knew a bit of HTML/CSS but really started coding at 30 and went to uni for 4 years, 1 year searching for a job. Half a year ago I got my first SWE job in a super nice company, earning a respectable salary as a full stack developer. I still can't believe I get paid for coding on interesting projects 8h a day.
I saw a video recently on the way you play video games is the the way you live life and it was so real to me. I love to explore and learn new things but I'm quick to move on when frustrated and that is a mirror of my life too
Wow I wasn't expecting this video to get that emotional.
Michael, thank you very much for making these videos and not being shy to express your thoughts and emotions!!!
"Anything worth doing is difficult" < Love this!
24:50 I almost cried! That's what I'm feeling right now, having a wife and kids slows down my career, but on the other hand the joy I got with having them surpass the Euraka feeling of software development.
I had a similar experience to your test thing with math, but with a CS course that involved C. It was incredibly easy, since I'd gone through the K&R book 6 months earlier. I finished in 14 mins (of 60 allotted). Prof thought I was coming up to ask a question, but I handed it to him and went home to take a nap. I got 100% on the test, zero points off whatsoever. Apparently next person took 35 mins. This was also one of the rare courses I was in where profs wrote the top 3 scores on the board. Man I felt cool that day. I wasn't cool, but I felt as if I was.
Love you Prime not because you need a hug while you are barely crying but because we all are in the same boat and you are showing truly a honest side of you.
Turned 34 this year. At the end of 2020 I had been laid off from my job as a weld lead, January 2021 I was taking online courses, got another weld job, April 2022 started as a contractor in ETL, December 2022 got hired into the company on devops, Spring 2023 got my bachelors in game development, still working in the same position. Got married and bought a house in that time to. I was working a full time job, finished a degree in 2 1/2 years, and had been programming in between welding, school, and time with my wife. And to boot, I still talk to some coworkers who are still contractors, they are younger than me, actually went to college early on for computer science, and... still know about as much as they did when I was working on the same team as them.
If you hate hearing yourself try putting the video on 2x. I found that it helps a lot.
Use AI to sound better
Prime, this was one of your best streams. You got me at 24:45. As a fellow dad, that thought is in my head all of the time, and keeps me grounded when I get lost in the editor. Programming is what we do. Not who we are. And to the point of putting the work in, that was the most powerful life lesson that I had to come to grips with. Put in the work, and the results will follow i.e. "Choose Your Hard."
I have never once thought Prime sounded like Jordan Peterson. But after he said it, that's all I can hear. Especially when he said "you should never steal hope from someone."
For full-stack which do you prefer, Python or JS? I feel like I've been language hopping from Python to JS and can't figure out what I want to study... I really want to do backend development and just don't know what to learn...
Python and Java are nice for backend. JS for frontend
If AI was as good as a Jr Engineer it would cost nearly as a Jr Engineer, not equivalent of lunch money.
Cherry picking like 5 success stories based on zero-insight solutions when there’s tens of thousands of people at the end of their rope is kind of sickening
what were we cherry picking? I just made a video about some random dude who strugled to get hired just recently got hired.
Painting the narrative “Don’t worry, look, it pays off” by casually visiting like 5 people who reported things randomly working out is a definitionally non representative sample, it’s cherry picking.
Call it unintentional cherry picking if you want, the misrepresentation is still there.
‘I totally agree with what I’m saying’ should be on a T-shirt 😂
Love that you said,
"I don't need to be the smartest person, but I know I can work hard and that is my talent."
Moving af
I’m a pilot. I spent the last 870 days training. I’m 100k spent, 10 hour training days. You get what you give and you have to give it your all. I’m shocked at how much I can relate to engineers.
It was serious whiplash to hear a speech about how you should work hard to learn from the same guy who told me that nobody cared how hard I worked like three videos ago (in my personal viewing order). I agree with everything said in this video, but I was surprised to hear it after that last one.
I really hope that in the near future the vast majority of new people in software development will be engineers coming from other engineering disciplines, already equipped with rigour and an engineering way of thinking. The junior "software developers" who are clueless about everything (software development included) were the most destructive force in this industry, and were never really needed to start with.
The first time I've heard the prime, I thought "when did Bill Burr start coding"
Another amazing video.. got tiery eyed at the end
I started to code at 34. My first job was as a Junior Android Dev at IBM when I was 37.
I am a dad and husband too, this hit home big time. Great reminder and advice my friend. Thank you!
I’m one of the people that needed this today! Keep up the great work Prime!
Prime is awesome.
In the late 90s everyone in my father’s industry (industrial controls) was being told there jobs would go away bc of globalization. A lot of his colleagues quit. They told there kids not pursue the field, I didn’t listen.
Anyone who stuck around was greatly rewarded by the mid-2010 we were commanding a premium salary. Still today experienced IC engineers have plenty of options.
For software I think the cycle will take less time. Industrial plants take years to plan and build. Software has a quicker turnaround.
Don’t listen to these “experts” that have an agenda. Prime is right, engineering is a craft. It will be needed today and in the future.
You're a reference for lots of people today and I also like you a lot. Thanks for share these words with us and explain us how to deal with what's most important. Thx mustache bro!
I needed to hear it. Thank you
Im losing more and more hope. Im graduting next year and the market is still shit and i doubt its gonna get any better. I dont think well see these job increases with the economy still being so dog shit.
All it takes is one company to give you a break. Then make friendships with your fellow developers, when they jump to other companies they'll recommend you. And you do the same for them. That's how it works. Be easy to work with, don't be the guy your colleagues regret seeing in the morning.
You will get it. It is more about networking than anything else.
That take at 16:30 is one of my favourites of all time. You dont need raw talent to be really good at something, just perseverance.
Uunderstand that when you see someone crushing it, they have one or the other, maybe a bit of both. But when you see those people at the top, the ones considered gods of the community, they have both the hard work part *and* opportunity. Nobody gwts there on raw talent alone.
Your take is really good.These takes from these people saying that coding is going away, it just feels elitest. And I really appreciate your point about software engineers being someone that can solve problems and not something dependent on using the trendiest thing. I was really late to all the JavaScript framework stuff, and I felt like I was doing something wrong by doing what I was doing. I've adapted to the whole framework job landscape, but I don't see anything wrong with sticking to a niche for a little while. I was still building really cool things.
As someone who got first job 4 months ago, i can say this video is very very very very good.
Grinding a lot of different things and they in the end help me a lot. Fullstack is a must now. You cannot work as frontend anymore
13:10 A thing anyone in any stage of their career in tech needs to understand is that, unless you are the absolute best at something, there will always be someone better than you. Good is good enough.
AI is much useful as guide, and not to replace developers. So I was doing this UI for my new portfolio and asked gpt to create a custom slider. It delivers but fortunately not good enough.
Edit: Love it when prime says hard work beats talent because I'm that person who needs to learn a thing multiple times before I get it 16:53
I am the same, slow but persistant learner.
Everyone needs to learn things more than once to one extent or another. Properly "getting" something always takes some understanding prior to learning that thing, which can come from learning related things, but often is easiest to get from learning and relearning that thing. The way in which people go through this process looks different from person to person, but revisiting topics with greater understanding benifits everyone at virtually every stage of learning that thing, including the stages before you can do much/anything with it, and the stages of near-mastery.
To give a couple of examples from my own life, with polar opposite initial skill levels (after learning once), one could "get" algebra immediately, never have problems with the early concepts, not need to revisit anything or have it explained, and still benifit from revisiting it later to notice that variables and functions really aren't all that different in algebra (or most math to do with manipulating equations, for that matter), amongst other things (seeing linear algebra in terms of matricies helps understand both better in the early stages of learning the latter, and I'm sure there's more I don't know or aren't thinking of). One can completely fail to understand what a C++ coroutine is on one's first attempt, and still benifit from re-reading the cppreference page over and over and over (ideally on different days) until enough concepts stick that they start to make sense together. Learning things multiple times over benifits everyone, and no one ever truly "gets" something on their first try, unless it's legitimately simple/easy.
Primes response is great, thank you I really needed this.
Bro, I had tears when Primeagen was taling about Leto Atreides. Thats such a big feeling. Going to be better, and going to work on myself to be better, respect to you.
If you look sideways and see someone thats so much better, try to be their friend and learn from them
Great advice. Build connection, and relationships, you will know which will lead to your next opportunity.
I studied Business Administration and Psychology in college. I worked for a couple of years but didn't feel happy with my life.
After that, I decided to switch to another industry that would be more fulfilling for me and found software programming through a friend. I quit my job and, for 10 months, studied and practiced software all day, 10-12 hours a day, until I found a job working with Java and JavaScript.
Right now, I am 1 and a half years into my first developer job and close to my second promotion.
Everybody tells me that right now it is more difficult, but I know it is not impossible! You can do it if you're determined.
You just lived off savings for 10 months?
My first paid work in the industry came this year, in 2024. It does happen. Just keep learning, keep applying, get rejected (or in my case ignored), and you can make it happen.
Jr Engs won't disappear but the nature of entry level jobs will change. More than ever your goal is to start doing the things to make you a Sr Eng, to be ready when the lack of juniors leaves a gap. Add in some business domain knowledge, picking an area of focus. Become better than the pack at prompt engineering. Don't be a jack of all trades, but master multiple complementary areas of knowledge that go beyond just learning to code.
@ThePrimeTime Be kinder to yourself. You are to others. Yourself deserves to be treated well too. You’re doing great. I love watching your special breed of programming related edutainment, and I’m not even a programmer.
My dad died when I was 6 and I know exactly what you mean, and yes, had a hard time staying composed on that scene. Crazy how I never considered other people would go through the same.
I’ve been trying to get a job for years.. I dropped out of college and 6 years later finally got a job. I was t as serious as I should have been for a while, and it took me locking my self away for a year on my own stuff and basically working as an intern for free on another project for 6 month.
Getting that first step is rough right now but worth it
I made it in 7 months... I feel incredibly lucky that I had a senior friend that took SO MUCH TIME to teach me and never gave up even when I felt kinda low on motivation.
People talking about there's no junior level jobs are talking with facts..but people like him who just spreading false positivity like "yah keep hustling, job market isn't bad you are bad if you are being fired or not getting job"
Stumbled upon this channel a day or two ago,
But what you do is amazing. You shed light in the cave of hopelessness by giving the realities of the world, but optimism and a realistic approach. Keep doing what you do
Primeagen is awesome.
@CodingAfterThirty you gotta give yourself some credit too lol. You advocate for the same positive message
@@ZeKermet 🙂
There's so much more that goes into software than people think. It's not just the code, communication, understanding patterns reading output, finding documentation. Once you can do all those, even if it's primarily in Javascript, congratulations, you have just levelled up.
"There's is gonna come a point, when I wake early, there is not gonna be a kid on the couch".
This is such a take away that it is also making me almost cry when I think about it.
I started learning Python about.. 3, maybe 4 months ago. Am 45, and decided I wanted out of the hardware side of IT. I NEEDED to hear this, this morning. Thank you for the pick me up!
Go cloud brother . That’s my goal . Cloud jobs are slated to grow near 20% over the next decade . That’s massive
Because I expect junior engineers to watch this video and at 8:34 will think "WOW Prime didn't know Objective C and XCode?" you're right, he didn't. BUT he did knew what multi-threading is, and how to implement it in another language. He also knew what caching is, and how to implement it in another language. He basically picked up a language similar to ones he was already familiar with, and learned how to use an IDE. He didn't learn what multi-threading and caching is while working on the project. And that's what having solid CS fundamentals is about.
If I'm being honest, I really feel like I am stuck in a spot of only being able to even conceptualize small goals. Deep down I want to have more than that but it doesn't feel possible so I focus on the small things and tell myself "Just figure X out and THEN you can focus on something more fulfilling, something bigger." I dropped out of university because I didn't like what I was doing and if I stayed, I probably would have failed out anyways. Since then, I have gotten 2 associates degrees, had a dead-end job for nearly 5 years where I never made above minimum wage, and am now looking at the potentiality of a 3rd associates degree just to try and find a path. All I'm doing is spinning my wheels trying to find a way to get a decent job that I don't despise so that I can move out and be away from the toxic home environment that I'm in.
This isn't the place for any of this, but sometimes something just resonates and it is nice to let things out a bit to complete strangers.
Word. I started at 35 and just coming up on 2 years employed in dev. Hardest thing I have done, but wouldn't change it.
Thank you for this video. I'm not even a junior yet and the doom and gloom thing really got to me, especially when it came from the COP of Nvidia. My brain was constantly trying to convince myself that this was a waste of time and i should do something else with my life since i'm already 30.
I didn't even think that these people who are saying that "juniors will die" could be wrong, and the CEO of Nvidia just wanted to sell more GPUs..
Never trust the CEO of any public company.
Their job is basically to fleece new investors into providing stock value for existing investors.
People like that should not be trusted.
Many CEOs are admirable salesmen, but it's still their job to say whatever will separate you from your money, not what they actually believe.
Probably one of your best uploads thus far Prime and I’m just half way through 😅
The skill of replying to a 7min video in half hours and adding massive value in the process. I learned more from my video from watching Primeagen.
Another problem is that middle to seniors are overworked and cant mentor
2:38 The thing is, even if in the future we "program" with natural languages, the need for precisely defining what you want the computer to do will converge into what will effectively be a programming language anyway. The syntax of programming is _not_ the hard part.
@20:58; I think that's ignoring that long term goals are Terminal Goals - goals you want to reach -, whereas smaller goals are the Instrumental Goals that you want in order to achieve your Terminal Goals.
"Being a better engineer" is a Terminal Goal. "Getting a job as a junior engineer" is an Instrumental Goal, because it is *one* of the steps towards becoming a better engineer. Similarly, as Robert Miles pointed out in his video predating the LLM hype on A.I. safety research, economists can often predict what someone will do, regardless of their Terminal Goal, because they can predict that the person will have an Instrumental Goal of "Get more money", because that's a common enough goal that people need to live in a capitalistic society that requires money for just about anything that you want.
I wouldn't belabour people focusing on the Instrumental Goals - they have the Terminal Goal in mind, but it's not the all-or-nothing goal.