YOGSCAST Hannah that's a good thing. I didn't either and when the twisted happened, I bet we were more shocked than people than had spotted the twist from before
If he told you what games have protagonists that are actually bad guys before the video started, that will not only spoil the video, but it would have also spoiled those game. Warning you at that point would be counter productive. This is why he asked all viewers to have played all games ever.
I liked the way the last of us ended. I think it shows they were taking their own story seriously. How many time have we seen the protagonist endulge in self sacrifice for the greater good, even when it's wildly inconsistent with everything we know about the character up to that point? It's a cliche and it's lazy. Real people make morally questionable choices, and I feel like Joel's choices were true to who he is as a person. I say "Well done".
@@ethangray8527 You are just proven his point. it's questionable. That means, that you might think, that he was absolutely justified, but others might think, he is selfish and stupid. That's what morally questionable mean.
I actually killed every human enemy in the game, not Zombies. I tried to avoid them most of the time, but I killed all of those humans, because Zombies don’t have a choice for what they are doing, but those humans had.
Prototype. Alex Mercerer died releasing the virus, and all the game you play not as Alex, that lost his memory, but as a virus that took his shape and some memories from him.
@@Wandergirl108 but he should have at least tried and he could have at least left Marleen alive and just threatened her but he just shot her and didn't tell ellie
@@rollforkoala8204 Your point? There are lots of things that failed before and even cost people their lives, including, Airplanes, parachutes, medicines, space shuttles, etc. Just because something failed before doesn't mean you give up. Especially since he didn't even give Ellie the option.
@George Sidiropoulos My main issue is that he didn't even give her a choice. He decided for her. I mean, what is her reaction going to be if she ever finds out that he murdered a bunch of people that were trying to help humanity without even giving her a choice. She was old enough to make that kind of decision herself.
Besides, what he did doesn't make him "bad". In that society, his behaviour is the norm. If you judge by our standards, everyone there would be called bad (even Ellie). What was wrong of him (still not "bad") was that he didnt give her a choice. Their relationship might deteriorate because of it but that's it.
Well it is a dumb question when I first read it I though it had another meaning to it like if u asked someone “are u really that green” about a particular subject meaning do u really know that little about it otherwise what’s his colour got to do with his comment??
the sad part is that you can't even avoid the toxic bomb , you are forced to activate it . When the soldier asked why have we done this and that they have been only helping the civilians to get out of the war zone was when I realised that we were the actual bad guys
My problem with BIOSHOCK INFINITE is that it used the idea of a metaverse to give you conflicting emotions about the protagonist when the end of the game comes, but never anyone else. The truth about humans is that we're all capable of becoming the worst aspects of ourselves. Elizabeth isn't an exception. People who become consumed by hate often find themselves more likely to become exactly like the person they hate in the first place. You'd think that there'd at least be one reality where she became an awful fascist dictator.
+Amaranthus616 Left and Right (not really in America) is supposed to be the farthest to the left is Totalitarianism and the farthest to the right is Anarchy. So it's really however you interpret it.
Jin Kazama isn't a bad guy... he assumed the head of Mishima Zaibatsu and started the war with G-Corp to bring out Azrael, who he then destroyed to try and end the Mishima Devil Gene curse.
How is that selfish in anyway?? he was trying to destroy the devil gene so it wouldn't be a curse on mankind anymore. also casualties in wars are inevitable
+vanthursday Azrael was supposed to destroy the world so killing him was a really good thing, also at the same time he weakened G-Corp and Mishima Zaibatsu who each were trying to take over the world previous to that. So I don't see anything selfish there
+KAIEN454 I didn't say he was a hero, he just isn't a villain. His choices were morally gray at best, but they were done for the greater good, so I can't fault him for it either. Especially when your family is filled with a bunch of psychos lol
Yeah but he still winds up being the bad guy. Plus how ruthless just to go slaughter a bunch of (for all you know ) innocent creachers for your own selfish reason.
Like I said "for all he know" sure, he didn't know they were good but he had know reason to believe they were evil either. Darmin never actually TELLS him that these arnt perfectly innocent beings
charles knox That's right Dormin never tells him that, so there was no reason to believe they were the good guys and he knew that he had to slay them to revive Mono. He was foolish and reckless but he wasn't really a bad guy in my opinion.
Thats what was so fascinating about Joel. How far a human being will go, even defying reason, for something they believe in. We know he didnt do the "right" thing, and thats what made his response so much more human. See?
But he did the right thing - instead of allowing a child to be cut up by a bunch of nut-jobs who lacked the infrastructure to make her sacrifice worth a damn; he instead viciously murdered them thereby saving both her and anyone else they planned on luring into their butcher-shop.
technically you're not the bad guy, you're an alternate version of the bad guy who didn't become the bad guy because the bad guy used you in his schemes that made him the bad guy and then you go rescue that same means all the while not knowing that when you stop the bad guy you're also the cause of the bad guy....bloody multiverse theory....so I guess "accessory to bad guy?"
*Spoilers* Technically Jin wasn't evil, because of the betrayal done to him by his grandfather in 3 and the spell placed on him by his father in 4, coupled with the devil gene that he received from his father biologically, he developed a deep hatred towards those of his family. In an effort to free himself of the devil gene, he discovered an even greater evil that was beginning to emerge, but he had to cause great chaos and strife to fully resurrect and destroy it otherwise the world would've been destroyed in 6. So he chose to do evil for the greater good of the world, kinda like The Watchmen series.
vanthursday yes i did play the game, profusely, and did i not say that he chose to resurrect azazel? i also said that in his efforts to rid himself of the devil gene he learned of azazel, he didn't do it just free himself from the devil gene, he wanted kill himself and rid himself of the mishima blood within him and save the world in the process since only someone with the devil gene would've been able to. he chose to be a necessary evil for his own goals and the greater good.
Nier should have been on this list. Play through the entire game going "yeah, I'm the good guy!" then play through half the game again from a different perspective and find out what you've been killing the whole time.
You, sir are the best comedic presenter on YT I've yet come across. You've the typically British cynicism with an attention to detail that reminds me of a young Billy Connelly. Keep up the hilarious work my English friend.
+Arkanjo Teixeira it would, like life and death. Light and dark but at the same time it would be like water and ice trees and grass it would be. Pretty cool
totally. if you read the logs etc as well the fireflies are not even sure it will work, and even if it did, are they likely to give the cure to the world for free? no, more likely to use it for power imo.
Who cares how they'd use it? A society under a Firefly dictatorship is still a million times better than fractured chaos where humanity has no hope to survive
+thekillers1stfan I don't care period. Even if the cure was garunteed to work, and the Fireflies would save humanity, I still would not care. I completely understand the stakes and the consequences, but I am with Joel, no matter how illogical and even evil it may be, on this decision.
+thekillers1stfan I've had this debate before, and I believe in one of them someone brought up that the devs straight up said the cure was going to work on some website or something, but that debate was YEARS ago and I can't remember exactly. But yeah, I don't care. Besides which, it's their own fault for their method of going about doing it. They knew Joel was unstable and they knew he was dangerous, and Ellie was unconscious pretty much the whole time. They were real douchebags in their method of going about it, and very poorly thought out. If they had been less antagonistic and Ellie had gotten a chance at having some sort of emotional "goodbye, but this is what I want" moment with Joel, my stance would probably be different (and of course I understand that sacrificing herself would have been what Ellie wanted anyways).
I think Joel is a lot more in the grey area, rather than plain evil one. He loves Ellie like his own. No father at his right mind would let his daughter die, if he can help it. On the other hand, no human being would ever risk the survival of his species for just one teenage girl. The best story in video game, ever!
So many people write comments to these videos with seriousness, contemplating the the many themese and games mentioned in hopes to spark a meaningful conversation, and access responds to pineapples. Well played access, well played
Joel makes the right choice imo. If you read the lore pieces in that area, you'll see that the fireflies had tried to synthesize a cure from multiple children who were immune. And none of them worked. Essentially, Ellie would have died for nothing.
Your point? There are lots of things that failed before and even cost people their lives, including, Airplanes, parachutes, medicines, space shuttles, etc. Just because something failed before doesn't mean you give up when it has the potential to save humanity. Especially since he didn't even give Ellie the option.
Not for nothing, scientists and engineer's don't just keep doing the same thing expecting a different result. They do things differently every time until they find something that works. The first Iphone, how do you think that was made? That they just thought up the exact model of the iPhone after a few cups of coffee? No, it's trial and error the basic principles of building/making/growing/etc anything
When i saw the video the first character that I thought about was him, but I'm really not sure if he is actually bad, because he was just used by Dormin, and had no bad intentions
Can Gabriel/Dracula in C:LOS/LOS2 really be counted as a bad guy when he ends up killing the ultimate evil (aka Satan) by some starchild prophecy? I'd say more of an anti-hero than anything.
I didn't just kill the doctor who was blocking my way in The Last Of Us, I switched to the flamethrower so it would hurt and the other two would know what was coming if they gave me any lip.
I didn't even kill them, i just winged them in the shoulder. Even if they are on the wrong side they're just doing their job which is to help others. Plus i have a lot of respect for intellectuals, being one myself
What about Dark Souls? No good guy would ever kill Sif, or Quelaag. Or worse, kill Quelaag, and then the fair lady while her servant watches What a cockwomble we were
Also Priscilla, I never wanted to even fight any of them, I'm only glad that some of them were optional, poor Sif and Quelaag though they didn't deserve to die... T_T
"Who'd have thought a man who killed his wife would do such a thing?!? ... Oh, yeah, he.. killed his wife, too, didn't he?" :D Best thing is, I absolutly agreed with the sentiment of the first sentence... Such is the power of good storytelling!
Interesting how the different endings to that game seem to change not just what you do, but what happened before the game even started. "Shattered Memories" pulls a similar trick.
Mega Zeta I forgot to mention that the director of Silent Hill 2 stated that the In Water ending is the canon ending. And it makes sense, the games either have a water theme (rust is caused by oxidation which is usually caused by contact with water) or fire. Jame's fog isn't like Harry's or anybody else's in, instead his fog is steam. You also find various corpses throughout Silent Hill that look like James, representing that he is in fact already dead. I have other suicide theories for the other Team Silent games.
Mega Zeta You meet Angela near a pond, Maria near a lake, and Eddy leaning over a toilet. You fight Pyramid Head in a room with water blocking your way out, in a sewer and further in a room made completely of rusted metal. You fight Eddy in a meat locker filled with ice and meat. One of the levels is a prison located beside the lake representing both how he's imprisoned in his guilt and the way in which he died due to the amount of falling you have to do in that level. You have to cross said lake to get to the final level which is a lake side hotel. If you look really close at the wood in the fire when Angela dies it's wet. You fight the final boss in the rain. There's a massive water motif in the game that you only really notice when you realize which ending in the canon ending. The more you know about the game the better it gets in my opinion. I could also argue the suicide limbo theory for Silent Hills 1, 3, 4, 5, and Downpour.
I never trusted the Fireflies, those recordings turned me even more against them, they were planning on killing Joel even before he brought Ellie to them. Their whole operation just seemed suspicious to me, I don't think they're good guys at all, they might see themselves as good, but, something about just seems...off.
+Adinda Kayla Its not a simple situation think about part three of the trolley problem wouldn't quite call someone evil/villianous for allowing a four random people to die rather than their spouse, daughter or other loved one. its not like Joel never killed anyone out of anything more than self defense until that scene either. I heavily doubt his actions will cause the extinction of the human race either sure a lot of people won't be able to be saved but what he did wasn't exactly evil. I do think Ellie knew she was going to die and had accepted it though. He truly had done it against her wishes, but he wasn't exactly ill intentioned.
+DeadliestBeef The cure may not have been discovered/found, and then he would've also lost Ellie in the process as well. He didn't dare risk it, which is understandable. Life without her would be meaningless, even if there were to be a cure for the breakout. That's as villainous as it is sweet.
Cool list. I'm glad Walker, Joel, Gabriel, and Scott Shelby made the list. Just missing Wander from Shadow of the Colossus and Darth Revan from Star Wars KOTOR
That end sequence of the Last of Us stuck with me. Throughout it there was this feeling of 'This is wrong, I shouldn't do this' but then I was thinking about it and realised its not only the choice I'd have made. but If the game ended any other way I wouldn't have liked it. That really made me connect with Joel at the end realising how attached I'd grown to Ellie as a character to protect. NO IM NOT CRYING, ITS RAINING IN HERE, IN MY HOUSE DAMNIT!
Correct me if I am wrong, but I remember finding a journal entry in the last of us that talked about they had found multiple people who had been immune to the spores, and they kept killing them trying to find a cure and failing.
You're missing the point. Humanity doesnt need to be saved and it probably SHOULDN'T be saved. After all Humanity is the worst of the two in the game. Thats shown when Ellie and Joel encounter David and his men. They were CANNIBALS. I mean think about it. Save THAT? THAT is essentially what men are. And I think what Naughty Dog was trying to get across was that Joel's love for Ellie was stronger than his will to let her be killed for science (that may not even work, they weren't even sure) and this theme of father and daughter love and the power of staying together to the end. it's very frustrating that this went completely over everyone's head. The Fireflies were the "True Bad Guys All Along" because they were willing to kill an innocent little girl, to save themselves. MEN killed his original daughter and MEN were trying to kill this one. Men destroyed the world and then AFTER made it a horrifying existence (Bandits, Cannibals) even though the zombies were already an immense danger. Theorizing or not at the end of the day, if you're a good man, you would've done the same as Joel.
RobbJohnnyJenkins Yes, because Ellie certainly wasn't willing to do whatever was necessary to find this cure herself. Also, the sacrifice of a single person in order to try and help the rest of humanity, which included way more than just David and his men, is so terrible isn't it? Yes, given the state that the world is in, some people will more than likely turn to the most extreme examples of depravity, but that doesn't speak for everyone does it? I mean, just think about how many more good people, like that father/son pair they met up with, will end up having to possibly kill each other in order to prevent the other from becoming like the creatures that now overrun the planet because Joel decided that saving one life was worth condemning the rest of the planet. And do keep in mind, like I said previously, even if was the case that they weren't sure, he did not necessarily know that. There was nothing in the narrative outside of those audio files that ever even hinted at the idea that this had that low of a chance of working. And do keep in mind as well that he straight up lied to Ellie about the whole thing at the end of the game. He had to do that because, as previously stated, Ellie did indeed want to go through with it, she stated this during the game. She knew she was humanity's only hope, and Joel made the choice for her, then lied to her about what happened.
AssassinoJaxon But it's more than that. Lets say the Fireflies managed to make a vaccine, how would they have mass produced it, or or delivered it to everyone. They lost half the team just making it to that facility. And that's if they wanted to give it to everyone, which I highly doubt. No, they were willing to kill Ellie for themselves and that's it. Even if they could have made a vaccine though and mass produced it, I still say Joel did the right thing. The rest of the world isn't his problem, as selfish as that sounds.
@@AssassinoJaxon The Fireflies failed any attempt at creating a vaccine. They killed all the immune humans before Ellie. Plus, How you are going to mass produce a vaccine in a world like that? You simply can't. They don't have the the tools, power and structures to do it. Plus Fireflies are seen badly by the majority of the Humans. How they are supposed to convince people that they made a vaccine and people should take it if everyone doesn't trust you? Its obvious they wanted to make a vaccine only for them. Also the whole Plot of the game is kinda Bullshit. They gived a basically impossible mission to 1 man and 1 woman (Tess). They needed 1 year to make it to the facility because of all the Odds and it was just by a miracle. Marlene counted on a Miracle. They didn't know where the Fireflies were and they didn't have a transport for most of the Story. If Marlene atleast gived them the exact position of the Firefly Base they probably wouldn't even encountered David or needed to Stop at Jackson.
I just played The Last of Us for the first time today and it blew my mind. At first I thought what Joel did was incredibly selfish but I still understood it. I get that he wasn't ready to give it all up. But then I thought about it some more and I thought that a guy like Joel who has seen some terrible stuff must not have that much faith in humanity especially in such a messed up world. And I understood his actions more than ever. That he wasn't ready to give up the best thing that ever happened to him for such a messed up world. That's all. :D
The last character makes me think of the guy from " as above, so below Movie" when his little brother got stuck in a cave and drowned and he said he went for help.......but did he? Apparently no.
do SJW's have to defend everything? ppl are allowed to have opinions on the internet. so ill stir the pot some more, his voice is incredibly cringe worthy, high pitched and sounds like Grima Wormtounge from LOTR
if I recall correctly I was pissed at Shelby being the killer because of one scene that completely misleads you, since you are PLAYING as him, while looking for the killer and doing nothing shady, yet when the whole twist is revealed we are treated to a flashback where he actually DOES something shady during the exact moment where you're controlling him. Kinda like the game going "nuh-uhhh he's not the killer. see? you even CONTROL him!" and then laughing at you like "lol we totally lied. the thing you did? that never happened. it was all just a lie."
What I liked about Heavy Rain, is that the player agency is what makes Shelby a sympathetic character. The player can assume he's a good guy and he can help save convenience store clerks instead of allow their demise. The counter to "He's such a nice guy, though", is that he wasn't. You just made him that way to fit your own perception.
I thought for sure Darth Revan would be here. Playing through 70% Knights of the Old Republic and then learning that you were the former Darth was a big plot twist.
Balrog was one of my fav characters in Street Fighter II. His character wasn't such psycho-violence-maniac back then so I was more than shocked to find out that he was actually a bad guy. Also, the bad ending of Soul Blade's Hwang still haunting me...
the protagonist from Shadow of the collosus, even while he did it for a greater cause, he ended up trespassing the sacred lands, and even becoming the bad guy himself at the end.
Thank you for this part about The Last of Us.. i only completed it like 2 weeks ago and my mind was still shattered from what the hell i was doing in the whole game.
"So... uh... don't watch this video unless you've finished all games ever."
Apparently there are thousands of people who've finished all games ever
Yup
it's easier than you think
It's a figure of speech? Clearly you don't understand that!
Don't tell anyone...but I'm a bit of a rebel!
He's joking...
I'm still salty about not spotting that Heavy Rain killer.
You have 69 likes XD
YOGSCAST Hannah that's a good thing. I didn't either and when the twisted happened, I bet we were more shocked than people than had spotted the twist from before
My buddy called the killer within the 1st 5 minutes of playing heavy rain. Best part was, he'd never played the game before.
Just love how Rob does not care to tell what games will be spoiled... He is the villain all along!
If he told you what games have protagonists that are actually bad guys before the video started, that will not only spoil the video, but it would have also spoiled those game. Warning you at that point would be counter productive.
This is why he asked all viewers to have played all games ever.
that's smart
I liked the way the last of us ended. I think it shows they were taking their own story seriously. How many time have we seen the protagonist endulge in self sacrifice for the greater good, even when it's wildly inconsistent with everything we know about the character up to that point? It's a cliche and it's lazy. Real people make morally questionable choices, and I feel like Joel's choices were true to who he is as a person. I say "Well done".
How is Joel's choice morally questionable at all? So what if a cure isn't found, it's not like there isn't other ways of surviving.
Yeah but they kill dozens and not one worked to make a cure
@@ethangray8527 You are just proven his point. it's questionable. That means, that you might think, that he was absolutely justified, but others might think, he is selfish and stupid.
That's what morally questionable mean.
It was a breath of fresh air tbh. As a protagonist I’d be selfish every now and then too.
I actually killed every human enemy in the game, not Zombies. I tried to avoid them most of the time, but I killed all of those humans, because Zombies don’t have a choice for what they are doing, but those humans had.
Prototype. Alex Mercerer died releasing the virus, and all the game you play not as Alex, that lost his memory, but as a virus that took his shape and some memories from him.
I liked the prototype games!
"Hello, you've caught me thinking about the nature of good and evil."
*That's deep bruh*
the last of us ending makes more sense when you find all the voice memos and find out that their were others and it failed before
I know, right? He actually didn't lie. I mean, maybe it would have worked this time, with Ellie, but maybe not!
@@Wandergirl108 but he should have at least tried and he could have at least left Marleen alive and just threatened her but he just shot her and didn't tell ellie
@@rollforkoala8204 Your point? There are lots of things that failed before and even cost people their lives, including, Airplanes, parachutes, medicines, space shuttles, etc. Just because something failed before doesn't mean you give up. Especially since he didn't even give Ellie the option.
@George Sidiropoulos My main issue is that he didn't even give her a choice. He decided for her. I mean, what is her reaction going to be if she ever finds out that he murdered a bunch of people that were trying to help humanity without even giving her a choice. She was old enough to make that kind of decision herself.
Besides, what he did doesn't make him "bad". In that society, his behaviour is the norm. If you judge by our standards, everyone there would be called bad (even Ellie). What was wrong of him (still not "bad") was that he didnt give her a choice.
Their relationship might deteriorate because of it but that's it.
"Would the murderer cook eggs? No!" This scene had me dying!
dude. heavy rain had me fooled big time never knew the scott guy was bad until the very end. then you look back and it all adds up
obitrizzle are u really black ?
Jure Macola lol what?
he asked if you're really black. it's not too hard to understand
Well it is a dumb question when I first read it I though it had another meaning to it like if u asked someone “are u really that green” about a particular subject meaning do u really know that little about it otherwise what’s his colour got to do with his comment??
the sad part is that you can't even avoid the toxic bomb , you are forced to activate it . When the soldier asked why have we done this and that they have been only helping the civilians to get out of the war zone was when I realised that we were the actual bad guys
possibly the best spoiler warning ever
You had my like at "hello" :D
it has to be automatic ;)
Same...
Had my like at "sex manakins".
+Sgt James Doakes oops meant to out "sex manikin"
+Sgt James Doakes A "Manakin" is a type of bird. But yes in this case they do mean "mannequin" lol.
Rob didn't mention Star Wars : Knights Of The Old Republic and BioShock : Infinite?
Joshua that bothered me so much. Knights of the Old Republic has got to be the first example I think of when the player was the bad guy all along.
Joshua Patton That bombshell was even heavier than "No, I am your father."
Hold on, how were you the bad guy in Bioshock: Infinite?
BDL30 Spoilers ahead. Booker was Comstock and Comstock was Booker. They weren't the same man, but they were the same man.
that ... makes sense I guess?
You should make Delsin Rodent plushies I would love to have one in my gaming room!
I second this notion
+Sigmund Zaman yeah!
I would love this
I forgot how perfect his name is...
I love the intro, "Don't watch this video until you finish all games ever."
H-Have I stumbled from Outside Xbox to their Bizaro, Twilight Zone counterpart?
You have indeed. Welcome - Hollie
*****
...I posted that 2 minutes ago... Welp, this alone means you guys got a new subscriber you absolute legends!
I was actually thinking that they are counterparts to one another before
kylesharp20
kylesharp20
star wars the knight of the old republic
Right what about Revan?!?!?
That depends on how you play though, I guess in this sense it was that you "used to be" the bad guy, not that you actually were the villain.
these are all PS games. wasnt KOTOR Xbox only?
You WERE the bad guy all along. you had the choice of redeeming yourself though.
also PC
Sometimes I spend the time to write a comment only to realize that it's not as funny as I thought it'd be.
I feel you, man
like this one ?
You just described all my comments.
perhaps you should have stopped halfway through this one too! :P
maybe next time.
I finally played Shadow of the Colossus. Yeah, no spoilers but yeah. I see why it has been on so many Friday Features.
The last guardian hype :)
Best ps2 game ever !
I hope you played the hd remaster. Plus, I know not many people got into 3d gaming, but NOTHING beat this game's flying bosses in 3d. Spectacular!
Did you play Ico first? I hope so.
+Mysterious J why play ico first?
BIOSHOCK INFINITE!! You were Comstock all along! BOOM!
EvilAnnie thanks for the spoiler
Derp Pumpkin same
first bioshock u were helping the evil, u were brainwashed but u were just a killing machine
My problem with BIOSHOCK INFINITE is that it used the idea of a metaverse to give you conflicting emotions about the protagonist when the end of the game comes, but never anyone else.
The truth about humans is that we're all capable of becoming the worst aspects of ourselves. Elizabeth isn't an exception. People who become consumed by hate often find themselves more likely to become exactly like the person they hate in the first place. You'd think that there'd at least be one reality where she became an awful fascist dictator.
Tarvaax but wasnt there one? Where she was old lady and had become comstock's successor and brought destructrion and war to world
watching that scene from spec ops:the line made me feel just awful inside and I've never even played the game.
For the first 40 seconds are you just taking about politicians
You sir are correct!
+Ruben Ortiz Just reverse it to Good guys on the right and bad guys on the left.
Bad guys on both sides really though.....
+Amaranthus616 Left and Right (not really in America) is supposed to be the farthest to the left is Totalitarianism and the farthest to the right is Anarchy. So it's really however you interpret it.
+Mister Mister Was that a D&D joke? Lawful vs Chaotic?
Jin Kazama isn't a bad guy... he assumed the head of Mishima Zaibatsu and started the war with G-Corp to bring out Azrael, who he then destroyed to try and end the Mishima Devil Gene curse.
Which is really selfish because he only thinks of himself.. Btw his war killed Miguel's sister on her wedding day
How is that selfish in anyway?? he was trying to destroy the devil gene so it wouldn't be a curse on mankind anymore. also casualties in wars are inevitable
+vanthursday Azrael was supposed to destroy the world so killing him was a really good thing, also at the same time he weakened G-Corp and Mishima Zaibatsu who each were trying to take over the world previous to that. So I don't see anything selfish there
Jin isn't a hero. He is mostly considered a Anti-Hero since he did selfish things for his own deeds
+KAIEN454 I didn't say he was a hero, he just isn't a villain. His choices were morally gray at best, but they were done for the greater good, so I can't fault him for it either. Especially when your family is filled with a bunch of psychos lol
where is Wanderer from Shadow of the Colossus?
He wasn't bad, he was deceived by the voice that told you to kill the colossi.
Yeah but he still winds up being the bad guy. Plus how ruthless just to go slaughter a bunch of (for all you know ) innocent creachers for your own selfish reason.
charles knox It's been years since i last played SotC, but i'm pretty sure you don't realize that until the end when Wander gets possed.
Like I said "for all he know" sure, he didn't know they were good but he had know reason to believe they were evil either. Darmin never actually TELLS him that these arnt perfectly innocent beings
charles knox That's right Dormin never tells him that, so there was no reason to believe they were the good guys and he knew that he had to slay them to revive Mono. He was foolish and reckless but he wasn't really a bad guy in my opinion.
Oh Joel, you NAUGHTY DOG.......
Alex Mercer in prototype when you find out that he was the virus
Cameron just realized he was the villain of his own video game all along. #Brexit
I really hope it's a video game!
It's WRONG..not WRON..
Dumbledore being Voldemort would have been an amazing plot twist, even bigger than "Mad-Eye not Moody" in HP4!
"Games are all about choice."
Shows Fallout 4
Choppytehbear1337 You still have choices. You just don’t like them.
I mean factions, right?
Thats what was so fascinating about Joel. How far a human being will go, even defying reason, for something they believe in. We know he didnt do the "right" thing, and thats what made his response so much more human. See?
But he did the right thing - instead of allowing a child to be cut up by a bunch of nut-jobs who lacked the infrastructure to make her sacrifice worth a damn; he instead viciously murdered them thereby saving both her and anyone else they planned on luring into their butcher-shop.
... A little bit late... there was recording of past immune humman who they kill to try to found a cure... so yhea... good thing they died!
prototype's Alex Mercer is a pretty good candidate!
Why not Bioshock: Infinate wtf
Oh yeah! *kicks self* This is what the comments are for though, right? -Rob
+PlayStation Access HI ROB
technically you're not the bad guy, you're an alternate version of the bad guy who didn't become the bad guy because the bad guy used you in his schemes that made him the bad guy and then you go rescue that same means all the while not knowing that when you stop the bad guy you're also the cause of the bad guy....bloody multiverse theory....so I guess "accessory to bad guy?"
Well done for trying to explain Bioshock Infinite, you did better than me - Hollie
any game connected to drakengard can be on here as well given its design philosophy.
*Spoilers*
Technically Jin wasn't evil, because of the betrayal done to him by his grandfather in 3 and the spell placed on him by his father in 4, coupled with the devil gene that he received from his father biologically, he developed a deep hatred towards those of his family. In an effort to free himself of the devil gene, he discovered an even greater evil that was beginning to emerge, but he had to cause great chaos and strife to fully resurrect and destroy it otherwise the world would've been destroyed in 6. So he chose to do evil for the greater good of the world, kinda like The Watchmen series.
No... He started a war just to get Azazel to take his devil gene.. his war killed Miguel's sister in her wedding day..
btw he's the reason azazel was resurrected if u actually played the game
Also Jin has an angel form
+Black Ops 3 TaCtics you mean demon..
vanthursday yes i did play the game, profusely, and did i not say that he chose to resurrect azazel? i also said that in his efforts to rid himself of the devil gene he learned of azazel, he didn't do it just free himself from the devil gene, he wanted kill himself and rid himself of the mishima blood within him and save the world in the process since only someone with the devil gene would've been able to. he chose to be a necessary evil for his own goals and the greater good.
Nier should have been on this list. Play through the entire game going "yeah, I'm the good guy!" then play through half the game again from a different perspective and find out what you've been killing the whole time.
Mark Tarutis
Yeah, it sucks (not the game, though).
"What you're doing is bad, and you should feel bad"
NieR-2013
You, sir are the best comedic presenter on YT I've yet come across. You've the typically British cynicism with an attention to detail that reminds me of a young Billy Connelly. Keep up the hilarious work my English friend.
Make a video with Outside Xbox!
XD
Mother of god
+Xavier Blade It would be awesome lol
+Arkanjo Teixeira it would, like life and death. Light and dark but at the same time it would be like water and ice trees and grass it would be. Pretty cool
they are actually friends, they've streamed together before xD
I have to admit that I was with Joel on that one... *whistles*
totally. if you read the logs etc as well the fireflies are not even sure it will work, and even if it did, are they likely to give the cure to the world for free? no, more likely to use it for power imo.
even if they kept the cure for 2 people, at least someone had a cure
Who cares how they'd use it? A society under a Firefly dictatorship is still a million times better than fractured chaos where humanity has no hope to survive
+thekillers1stfan I don't care period. Even if the cure was garunteed to work, and the Fireflies would save humanity, I still would not care. I completely understand the stakes and the consequences, but I am with Joel, no matter how illogical and even evil it may be, on this decision.
+thekillers1stfan I've had this debate before, and I believe in one of them someone brought up that the devs straight up said the cure was going to work on some website or something, but that debate was YEARS ago and I can't remember exactly. But yeah, I don't care. Besides which, it's their own fault for their method of going about doing it. They knew Joel was unstable and they knew he was dangerous, and Ellie was unconscious pretty much the whole time. They were real douchebags in their method of going about it, and very poorly thought out. If they had been less antagonistic and Ellie had gotten a chance at having some sort of emotional "goodbye, but this is what I want" moment with Joel, my stance would probably be different (and of course I understand that sacrificing herself would have been what Ellie wanted anyways).
I think Joel is a lot more in the grey area, rather than plain evil one. He loves Ellie like his own. No father at his right mind would let his daughter die, if he can help it. On the other hand, no human being would ever risk the survival of his species for just one teenage girl. The best story in video game, ever!
when i first knew that Scott Shelby was the killer my Jaw dropped
Oh wow 1 million already I remember when I first found you and you had 100,000 subscribers
KOTOR was my favorite - where you're an unknown heroic Jedi and suddenly find out you were once the Sith Lord Revan.
hi Playstation access would you like some pineapple?
yes pls
+PlayStation Access Ok who shall I give it to?
ME -Delsin
+PlayStation Access Ok Delsin I'll get you some pineapple.
So many people write comments to these videos with seriousness, contemplating the the many themese and games mentioned in hopes to spark a meaningful conversation, and access responds to pineapples.
Well played access, well played
star wars knights of the old republic...you are reven
That is also a P.C. game. This is Playstation Access.
Kotor1, and 2 were on Xbox, and PlayStation.
Joel makes the right choice imo. If you read the lore pieces in that area, you'll see that the fireflies had tried to synthesize a cure from multiple children who were immune. And none of them worked. Essentially, Ellie would have died for nothing.
Your point? There are lots of things that failed before and even cost people their lives, including, Airplanes, parachutes, medicines, space shuttles, etc. Just because something failed before doesn't mean you give up when it has the potential to save humanity. Especially since he didn't even give Ellie the option.
Not for nothing, scientists and engineer's don't just keep doing the same thing expecting a different result. They do things differently every time until they find something that works. The first Iphone, how do you think that was made? That they just thought up the exact model of the iPhone after a few cups of coffee? No, it's trial and error the basic principles of building/making/growing/etc anything
How the f*ck did the piece of bread from I Am Bread not make this list?
Rob is LITERALLY the funniest game video commentator EVER!!! These are so cheesy and funny!
What about wandere from shadow of the colossus
When i saw the video the first character that I thought about was him, but I'm really not sure if he is actually bad, because he was just used by Dormin, and had no bad intentions
Forgotten Spoiler:
"He's Zachary Comstock!" "He's Booker Dewitt!" "No. I'm both..." GLUB GLUB GLUB
Can Gabriel/Dracula in C:LOS/LOS2 really be counted as a bad guy when he ends up killing the ultimate evil (aka Satan) by some starchild prophecy? I'd say more of an anti-hero than anything.
Well he is God's chosen. Tells more about God than him in that universe since such a wretched life is his reward for being his champion.
I like how he mentions infamous like how you can be either but you're really the bad guy all along as well
thhe best time ever for me was when i played Kotor... when i i found out my char was Revan... my mind was blown at the 1st playthrough =D
I didn't just kill the doctor who was blocking my way in The Last Of Us, I switched to the flamethrower so it would hurt and the other two would know what was coming if they gave me any lip.
I didn't even kill them, i just winged them in the shoulder. Even if they are on the wrong side they're just doing their job which is to help others. Plus i have a lot of respect for intellectuals, being one myself
r/iamverysmart
"good guys on the left, bad guys on the right." I see what you did there.
Oh my god I just got it while reading that.
I don't
Politics. Though I doubt Rob was actually referring to that, since both the extreme left and right are equally villainous.
***** I thought it was a pun, or at least based on the console version of Mass Effect.
Morafo Regnos
Ohh, that actually makes a lot more sense, lol.
What about Dark Souls?
No good guy would ever kill Sif, or Quelaag.
Or worse, kill Quelaag, and then the fair lady while her servant watches
What a cockwomble we were
I couldn't bring myself to do either I just can't finish games like that.
Also Priscilla, I never wanted to even fight any of them, I'm only glad that some of them were optional, poor Sif and Quelaag though they didn't deserve to die... T_T
"Who'd have thought a man who killed his wife would do such a thing?!? ... Oh, yeah, he.. killed his wife, too, didn't he?"
:D Best thing is, I absolutly agreed with the sentiment of the first sentence... Such is the power of good storytelling!
Star wars knights of the old republic had a pretty good twist when you realize you were playing all along as the Dark Lord Revan.
Getting the In Water ending in Silent Hill 2 states that James was only doing what his wife told him to do. He helped her commit assisted suicide.
Interesting how the different endings to that game seem to change not just what you do, but what happened before the game even started. "Shattered Memories" pulls a similar trick.
Mega Zeta I forgot to mention that the director of Silent Hill 2 stated that the In Water ending is the canon ending.
And it makes sense, the games either have a water theme (rust is caused by oxidation which is usually caused by contact with water) or fire. Jame's fog isn't like Harry's or anybody else's in, instead his fog is steam. You also find various corpses throughout Silent Hill that look like James, representing that he is in fact already dead.
I have other suicide theories for the other Team Silent games.
Ditto, Master of Disguise I don't care about "canon". It tends to detract from what makes games like this great rather than add to it.
Mega Zeta You meet Angela near a pond, Maria near a lake, and Eddy leaning over a toilet. You fight Pyramid Head in a room with water blocking your way out, in a sewer and further in a room made completely of rusted metal. You fight Eddy in a meat locker filled with ice and meat. One of the levels is a prison located beside the lake representing both how he's imprisoned in his guilt and the way in which he died due to the amount of falling you have to do in that level. You have to cross said lake to get to the final level which is a lake side hotel. If you look really close at the wood in the fire when Angela dies it's wet. You fight the final boss in the rain.
There's a massive water motif in the game that you only really notice when you realize which ending in the canon ending. The more you know about the game the better it gets in my opinion.
I could also argue the suicide limbo theory for Silent Hills 1, 3, 4, 5, and Downpour.
Ditto, Master of Disguise "Theories" are about on the level of "canon" - you're reducing a complex story to Blue's Clues. I wouldn't.
To be fair, the only way to survive a mad world is to embrace the madness :P
and the people running in circles
Wait, is this a re-upload? Because I swear they already did this.
Nope, it's a new video -Rob
***** Ok thank you. Sorry, I was just making sure. It just seemed so... familiar.
+PlayStation Access why doby you guys do a "craziest protagonists of all time" video?
+Keshav Narera be sure to include Kratos
I think Outside Xbox or Eurogamer recently did a similar video.
lol the Dumbledore thing at the end was really funny, caught me by surprise.
every time you play the sad music you describe stuff so good
Joel is not a bad guy hear the recordings of the firefly's they were going to kill Elli for a hunch plus they start it they hit you twice
I never trusted the Fireflies, those recordings turned me even more against them, they were planning on killing Joel even before he brought Ellie to them. Their whole operation just seemed suspicious to me, I don't think they're good guys at all, they might see themselves as good, but, something about just seems...off.
i am surprise they didnt kill joel there when he brings her there,there fireflys our dum.she sees joel could do to survive,that long between 2 of them
Joel was a villain? Uh no. That's not right buddy.
Why?
He murdered several people for no reason except for his extreme protectiveness. (Talk about helicopter parenting ami'rite?)
+Adinda Kayla Its not a simple situation
think about part three of the trolley problem
wouldn't quite call someone evil/villianous for allowing a four random people to die rather than their spouse, daughter or other loved one.
its not like Joel never killed anyone out of anything more than self defense until that scene either.
I heavily doubt his actions will cause the extinction of the human race either
sure a lot of people won't be able to be saved but what he did wasn't exactly evil.
I do think Ellie knew she was going to die and had accepted it though. He truly had done it against her wishes, but he wasn't exactly ill intentioned.
He was a villain in the sense that he stopped them from potentially curing the virus and saving humanity
+DeadliestBeef The cure may not have been discovered/found, and then he would've also lost Ellie in the process as well. He didn't dare risk it, which is understandable. Life without her would be meaningless, even if there were to be a cure for the breakout. That's as villainous as it is sweet.
And and... (warning spoilers)
What about Bioshock Infinite :O I've watched the whole video waiting for it ;__;
Lucie Hermand tell u what your spoiling if you just say "warning spoilers"
Heavy Rain is still one of the most amazing games in my book. Did not expect much of what happened in it. Brilliant!
Cool list. I'm glad Walker, Joel, Gabriel, and Scott Shelby made the list. Just missing Wander from Shadow of the Colossus and Darth Revan from Star Wars KOTOR
shouldn't every bioshock ever be on here? especially infinate???
Fire Emblem: Awake- ohh...
That end sequence of the Last of Us stuck with me. Throughout it there was this feeling of 'This is wrong, I shouldn't do this' but then I was thinking about it and realised its not only the choice I'd have made. but If the game ended any other way I wouldn't have liked it. That really made me connect with Joel at the end realising how attached I'd grown to Ellie as a character to protect. NO IM NOT CRYING, ITS RAINING IN HERE, IN MY HOUSE DAMNIT!
Your input on Tekken is the most accurate thing I've seen in forever
What about bioshock infinite
Shadow of the Colossus not count?
ULTRALISK BUILDER yeah but the protagonist didn't mean to do it
"And driven by player choice..." *shows a clip from Fallout 4*
Ha.
I love the ending for Braid, where it turns out you were the villain. Also, awesome mention for Spec Ops, underappreciated game IMO.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I remember finding a journal entry in the last of us that talked about they had found multiple people who had been immune to the spores, and they kept killing them trying to find a cure and failing.
the castlevania one was my favorite because I'm a fanboy for the series.
Joel was definitely not a bad guy.
You're missing the point. Humanity doesnt need to be saved and it probably SHOULDN'T be saved. After all Humanity is the worst of the two in the game. Thats shown when Ellie and Joel encounter David and his men. They were CANNIBALS. I mean think about it. Save THAT? THAT is essentially what men are. And I think what Naughty Dog was trying to get across was that Joel's love for Ellie was stronger than his will to let her be killed for science (that may not even work, they weren't even sure) and this theme of father and daughter love and the power of staying together to the end. it's very frustrating that this went completely over everyone's head. The Fireflies were the "True Bad Guys All Along" because they were willing to kill an innocent little girl, to save themselves. MEN killed his original daughter and MEN were trying to kill this one. Men destroyed the world and then AFTER made it a horrifying existence (Bandits, Cannibals) even though the zombies were already an immense danger.
Theorizing or not at the end of the day, if you're a good man, you would've done the same as Joel.
RobbJohnnyJenkins Yes, because Ellie certainly wasn't willing to do whatever was necessary to find this cure herself. Also, the sacrifice of a single person in order to try and help the rest of humanity, which included way more than just David and his men, is so terrible isn't it?
Yes, given the state that the world is in, some people will more than likely turn to the most extreme examples of depravity, but that doesn't speak for everyone does it? I mean, just think about how many more good people, like that father/son pair they met up with, will end up having to possibly kill each other in order to prevent the other from becoming like the creatures that now overrun the planet because Joel decided that saving one life was worth condemning the rest of the planet. And do keep in mind, like I said previously, even if was the case that they weren't sure, he did not necessarily know that. There was nothing in the narrative outside of those audio files that ever even hinted at the idea that this had that low of a chance of working.
And do keep in mind as well that he straight up lied to Ellie about the whole thing at the end of the game. He had to do that because, as previously stated, Ellie did indeed want to go through with it, she stated this during the game. She knew she was humanity's only hope, and Joel made the choice for her, then lied to her about what happened.
lol ok.
AssassinoJaxon But it's more than that. Lets say the Fireflies managed to make a vaccine, how would they have mass produced it, or or delivered it to everyone. They lost half the team just making it to that facility. And that's if they wanted to give it to everyone, which I highly doubt. No, they were willing to kill Ellie for themselves and that's it. Even if they could have made a vaccine though and mass produced it, I still say Joel did the right thing. The rest of the world isn't his problem, as selfish as that sounds.
@@AssassinoJaxon The Fireflies failed any attempt at creating a vaccine. They killed all the immune humans before Ellie. Plus, How you are going to mass produce a vaccine in a world like that? You simply can't. They don't have the the tools, power and structures to do it. Plus Fireflies are seen badly by the majority of the Humans. How they are supposed to convince people that they made a vaccine and people should take it if everyone doesn't trust you? Its obvious they wanted to make a vaccine only for them. Also the whole Plot of the game is kinda Bullshit. They gived a basically impossible mission to 1 man and 1 woman (Tess). They needed 1 year to make it to the facility because of all the Odds and it was just by a miracle. Marlene counted on a Miracle. They didn't know where the Fireflies were and they didn't have a transport for most of the Story. If Marlene atleast gived them the exact position of the Firefly Base they probably wouldn't even encountered David or needed to Stop at Jackson.
Joel isn't the bad guy. Any father would do that
I love how you DON'T forget the awesome Silent Hill.
The magical thing about Heavy Rain for me was realizing I had just played the victim, reporter, investigator AND villain all at once.
Joel is not evil or bad you do what is right
your the bad guy in Shadow of the Colossus
Wanderer might have been evil from the beginning
Destiny is the biggest plot twist ever... if they went with the original story.
If you liked destiny please look up destinys original story.
JustTechnique What if they still go with the "old" story but we don't know it 🤔
I just played The Last of Us for the first time today and it blew my mind. At first I thought what Joel did was incredibly selfish but I still understood it. I get that he wasn't ready to give it all up. But then I thought about it some more and I thought that a guy like Joel who has seen some terrible stuff must not have that much faith in humanity especially in such a messed up world. And I understood his actions more than ever. That he wasn't ready to give up the best thing that ever happened to him for such a messed up world. That's all. :D
The last character makes me think of the guy from " as above, so below Movie" when his little brother got stuck in a cave and drowned and he said he went for help.......but did he? Apparently no.
"...nuanced and driven by player choice"
*Fallout 4 comes up on screen*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHhaha...haaahh god
does no one else find his voice super annoying 😂
Nope. Actually nice actually....do you fuckos need to complain about everything?
do SJW's have to defend everything? ppl are allowed to have opinions on the internet. so ill stir the pot some more, his voice is incredibly cringe worthy, high pitched and sounds like Grima Wormtounge from LOTR
why do bitches got to complain about people complaining about people complaining
Actually no, but I do find comments that complain about this kind of thing annoying 😂😂😂😂😂😂
I wonder Why i keep watching these lists when I’m annoyed also
if I recall correctly I was pissed at Shelby being the killer because of one scene that completely misleads you, since you are PLAYING as him, while looking for the killer and doing nothing shady, yet when the whole twist is revealed we are treated to a flashback where he actually DOES something shady during the exact moment where you're controlling him. Kinda like the game going "nuh-uhhh he's not the killer. see? you even CONTROL him!" and then laughing at you like "lol we totally lied. the thing you did? that never happened. it was all just a lie."
What I liked about Heavy Rain, is that the player agency is what makes Shelby a sympathetic character.
The player can assume he's a good guy and he can help save convenience store clerks instead of allow their demise.
The counter to "He's such a nice guy, though", is that he wasn't. You just made him that way to fit your own perception.
I thought for sure Darth Revan would be here. Playing through 70% Knights of the Old Republic and then learning that you were the former Darth was a big plot twist.
I followed all 4 of you guys of PSN today! I love what you do!
I was gonna say finally. One video which you didn't mention Metal Gear but you kinda did in this one as well.
The white phosphorus scene makes you really think "what the hell I did?"
one of the few Friday features where Rob never references MGS
I like how you use footage of Fallout 4 as an example of that series giving you "choice"
Thank you for another fantastic video I love watching these
Balrog was one of my fav characters in Street Fighter II. His character wasn't such psycho-violence-maniac back then so I was more than shocked to find out that he was actually a bad guy.
Also, the bad ending of Soul Blade's Hwang still haunting me...
Bioshock? "would you kindly"? I thought that was one of the greatest mindf***s of all gaming history when I was 15
the protagonist from Shadow of the collosus, even while he did it for a greater cause, he ended up trespassing the sacred lands, and even becoming the bad guy himself at the end.
Hey @PlayStation Access can i ask what song is playing at 2:00? at the end of your 'Spec Ops: The Line' segment? :)
Thank you for this part about The Last of Us.. i only completed it like 2 weeks ago and my mind was still shattered from what the hell i was doing in the whole game.