Over Priced Bourbon: Capitalism or Greed-Bourbon Real Talk Episode 69
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2020
- Across the country retail stores are marking up allocated bourbon many times the manufacturer's suggested retail price. In some cases they are going far beyond the black market/secondary market price. We discuss possible reasons for this happening and we attempt to answer the question... Is this just capitalism or greed?
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This video is informative on another level. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Call it “Old Stank” and no one will by it..
Is it Capitaliism,or just plain hype?
@@mikedubs9940 There is nothing wrong with bourbon pricing. Period. I love how people think capitalism is the problem. Really? Think the shelves are running over with Blanton's in Venezuela? I used to drink Frogs Leap wine. It was cheap and tasted good. Then one day some schmuck that works for a wine magazine ranked it as a 92, prices sky rocketed and I haven't bought since (to your hype)
Sir, you are 100% correct about the loved one buying the overpriced bourbon. My wife tends to do that on occasion since shes always seeking something new and popular for me. We stopped by the store that she usually buys from last week. On the shelf were 10 bottles of EHT Small Batch with a price tag of $94.99. WSR was $54.99 ECBP was $95. The owner clearly knows the "popular" stuff and is charging a ridiculous amount for them. However, the standard stuff was normal pricing.
After discussions with my wife about how they were charging triple retail price and how outrageous that is, she goes on to say "wow, I would have bought it and not known any better". I can only imagine how much they ripped her off over the years while she thought she was doing me a favor buying hard to find bourbons. Meanwhile the owner was completely taking advantage of her and other wives looking to buy a nice bottle for their significant others.
That is my fear with the over priced stores.
Stumbled across this video and I'm really glad that I did. Very informative and really enjoyed the information you shared. Much of it I already knew but I found some of it very interesting. I look forward to watching more of your content.
Glad it was helpful!
I think you brought up some really good points regarding this subject and were able to explain very eloquently. At the end of the day I can understand a bit of a markup from retailers on the hottest items in the market but some of these prices are just insane.
Exactly! I do not want anyone who is ill informed to be taken advantage of.
I’ve learned so much about Bourbon from your channel. Great job!
Glad to hear it!
I discovered the channel only a few weeks ago, and this video is one of the best reasons in a long time to subscribe to a channel.
Thanks for the history lesson, I enjoyed that. Whether your concrete theory or interpretation is correct or not - for me, it makes sense at least -
is not even crucial. Some mentioned infos, I've never heard, and they explain or make comprehensible a lot. That triggers me a bit to inform myself,
how things are working on the international level. I'm from Germany, the 3-tier system doesn not exist in Europe as far as I know. Good work man!
Yay! A German watcher! So glad you enjoyed.
Just found your channel and I'm hooked! Fantastic content. How do you not have 500k subs? Thank you for this!
Wow, thank you! It appears bourbon only channels cap out around 85K, but I am growing as fast as I can. If you want to get more involved I would like to invite you to our free member group. facebook.com/groups/bourbonrealtalkcommunity
I’ve watched a handful of your videos now and I like you message. This was a great long for explainer on some of the industry inside baseball. Thanks for the content.
Glad it was helpful!
This has got to be the best Bourbon information videos I have ever seen. Thank you so much...Cheers
Wow, thanks! Thank you for supporting the channel!
Great video - great point about loved ones…Ive specifically told my wife, Dad and sister not to buy some of these crazy priced bottles for me. My Dad first bought me Blantons several years ago for $50-$60 and Ive told them not to pay the $150+ that many stores try to sell it for.
That is the biggest thing. I don't want loved ones to get "burned" by my love for whiskey.
Randy, truly appreciate the time and effort you and your team put into these videos and all the research that goes into it. Class act. Not to mention the fact you take time to reply to every comment.. even butt heads. Thank you for being you, brother. Look forward to consuming more content and growing my 🥃 knowledge with folks like you 👌🏼 keep it up. Oh and that Goat is amazing as well 🙌🏼 thanks for keeping those prices straight.
Appreciate it. I have been getting pretty beat up in the comments the last few days, so I needed that. Glad you like the The Prideful Goat. If we ever get together in person I will tell you the 3 book series drama of keeping the prices straight 😂
This is really informative, thanks for putting this together!
My pleasure!
Just stumbled on this episode, so on point. Completely agree, BT are solving the secondary with supply and not via pricing, it’s a long game but a great legacy builder. Great video.
Welcome aboard! Thank you for supporting the channel.
Marketing into the retail environment has involved a “buy this from me & I’ll take care of you”-mindset from day one on a distributor level. Stocking requirements & shelf-placement is the backbone driving floorplans across the country. Not just alcohol- Coca Cola Company v. Pepsico is a classic example. Competition on counters & window-display placement of products are all negotiable based on the inherent value of retail visibility.
The games played across the board are many & ultimately tiresome.
Truth
JUST A FANTASTIC VIDEO. best discussion on Secondary ive seen.
Wow, thank you!
Very well done - thanks for the info and take on this subject!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great info. Made me feel better about not getting anything allocated yesterday when it all dropped. I saw people in a Facebook group getting raked over the coals, and now I have a better u derstanfing of why
Glad I could help you feel better. My year has not gone as well as expected for allocated items, so I feel your pain.
Really enjoying the videos I just subscribed today keep up the good work!
Thank you for the support!
Very informative....I am now a subscriber!
Welcome aboard! I would like to personally invite you to our free member community. facebook.com/groups/bourbonrealtalkcommunity
My lord this video answered every question I have had about pappi, buffalo trace, allocation and what the future holds.
Thanks!
I aim to please. Subscribe and I will do my best to keep the useful videos coming.
Well, I don't say this very often, but I absolutely and completely agree with your very well-reasoned and informed opinion. Thanks for sharing this with those who haven't yet taken the time to research this topic. Cheers!
Thank you! You try but you never know how it will be received and this is so encouraging! I appreciate the support.
Great video. I also ordered your whiskey aroma kit..with standard shipping and was surprised at how fast it arrived. The kit is awesome
Hope you enjoy it! Thank you for the support!
Excellent information-Thank you for sharing.
Glad it was helpful!
Great video. Thank you!
You are welcome!
I'm really enjoying your videos. Every liquor store in Southern California does this. Either it's marked up 300% of MSRP, or they make you buy bottles in a bundle. One of the liquor stores I used to frequent quite often, was supposedly the #1 pusher of all Sazerac products in Southern California, would make you buy bundles to get one allocated bottle. I did get my bottle of Weller's Full Proof for $100, but I had to buy 1 Buffalo Trace, 1 Larceny and 1 Brothers Bond. Or they sell a bottle of Blanton's or Stagg Jr for $200, but if you wanted to get it for MSRP $60, you had to buy 2 bottles of BT and 2 bottles of Sazerac Rye. And the sales clerk told me exactly what you said, if they can push certain products, they will be guarantee more allocated bottles from the distributor because that's where they make their money from.
Frustrating, but as a business person I understand. Cheers!
Such incredible content. Thank you for sharing your bourbon knowledge.
Thank you for watching!
Great discussion. Thank you.
Thanks for watching!
Wow! As a noob getting into Bourbon, I'm finding your channel more than informational, which is certainly good. Pointedly, I think you may need to change your channel name to "The Professor of Bourbon". Thanks again for the great info and reviews, and of course the love!
That moniker is taken by the legendary Bernie Lubbers, but thank you!
I think Bourbon Real Talk is spot on. I love the business acumen and logic being applied. I also enjoyed the talk you had about sourced bourbon. I would love to hear your analysis and views about where this is going now that a certain Indiana based distiller has bought Luxco and most likely will be acquiring other brands.
This is truly a fantastic video, especially for some of us here in Europe who’s into scotch but have just begun getting into the bourbon world. Thanks 🙏
Yay! A European viewer! So glad you enjoyed it. I think next week's episode is Bourbon vs Scotch. You should check it out...it is going to be funny.
@@BourbonRealTalk yes all the way from Denmark 🇩🇰 I will definitely check out your next episode, sounds great 👍
Wow! I feel like I just took a college level class in whiskey! Excellent content. And this is shameful, but it was Fireball that got me into serious whiskeys. I drank enough of that stuff i should qualify for Pappy at suggested retail!
Thanks, and that is hilarious!
Really enjoying these videos sir. My guess is, as long as the 3 tier system is in place, retailers will continue to price these up high. As you have mentioned in other videos, these stores deal with a lot of stress and hassle over these bottles regardless of whether they price them low or high. Thanks for the information.
Great point! I hope we get direct to consumer shipping, but I doubt any of the legacy distilleries would take advantage for fear of messing up a good thing.
Really enjoyed this video! Thanks brother 🤠🥃
My pleasure!!
This was an amazing video and cleared up so much for me
Glad it helped!
A lot of great information, thanks for the class!
You're welcome, glad you found the information helpful! Do you have any questions or anything else you'd like to see covered in future videos?
@@BourbonRealTalk I love that you guys deal with alot of the History of the Bourbon world and look forward to more of that.
@@darrenjohn6235 Thank you! I like to create content that would have interested me when I was learning. Then I just have to rely on the algorithm to show it to the other people who like to learn the way I do.
This video is phenomenal. Thank you
Glad you liked it!
Great job as always. Appreciate your insights. It really is a shame when someone gets “taken” by an unscrupulous retailer. As for me, I will not pay more than double what the Msrp is, and only then, on something very, very allocated! And then, I’m drinking it with some special friends!
That is a solid plan. I base the top end of my price range off of secondary and not MSRP, but as long as you have a plan to make sure you are comfortable with your purchases that is good enough for me.
This video brings back fond memories of having to make the hard decision of Weller S.R for 20, Weller 107 for 30 or Weller 12 for 45. The 107 usually won :)
Same! That was my daily before it went on allocation.
Id still pick the 107 if all were in front of me
Excellent video! Thank you for the information!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching!
What an education. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Good History, good point of view. The same is happening in the luxury watch market right now. limited supply pricing people out. The ADs are now withholding product to certain account managers/vendors. Eventually the market corrects itself as the consumer decides what to do with their hard earned money.
The big difference is the watch companies can change who they sell to, or go direct to consumer. In whiskey the producers do not have that free market right, so it makes these problems harder to fix.
Good overview of a complicated situation. Nice video.
Thanks!
Very well done. With small craft whiskey coming into their own you can find hidden gems from a local distillery. You can follow the growth of a new brand. Visit the distillery and buy direct.
Could not agree more!
Great analysis... especially on the fact that a distiller has to wait years to take advantage of increasing capacity now in hopes that the demand will still be there.
I think they will get inventory up eventually!
Man this is fascinating.. i realize this exact thing is going on at my local B and M. I feel a certain level of compassion for the guy who has been selling this merchandise a little high up.. he packages the desired bottle with a lesser known as part of deal for buying from him. I figure on a narrow margin. Great vid.
It is a difficult problem to solve. I don't mind bundles, raffles, or points systems. I do mind when a store decides who gets the bottle by who is willing to pay the most, that damages the brand. Plus, it is just lazy. Take the time to get to know your customers and use those bottles to incentivize behavior that will help your store be more profitable.
Very informative and great analysis!
Glad you liked it! Thanks for the support.
Very good information. Analysis is eye opening
Thank you. I think if everyone involved understood each other's situation it would result in better relations. Thanks for tuning in.
Thanks Randal! Great content
Thanks! Crazy all the comments on FB! Apparently this topic touches a nerve.
It seemed to me that many of the people commenting on the FB group had not watched the full video and just reacted to the title. What you talked about in this video made a lot of sense to me.
These vids are great info.
Thank you! So glad you enjoy them.
This is great explanation on how the whiskey/liquor market really works. I honestly think the people at Buffalo Trace/Sazerac talk out of both sides of their mouth. On one side they say, they aren’t raising prices to appease potential buyers, but on the other side they love the secondary market because they love bullying liquor stores into selling their crappy high margin booze (Fireball, etc). I think your ideas about capitalism are a bit pie in the sky. True capitalism is selling your product for whatever the market will tolerate. It doesn’t really care if it’s a sophisticated purchaser or, for lack of better term, a sucker. There is no moral compass for capitalism other than self interest and profit. That’s why there is regulation and over sight.
I think listening to the full podcast would reveal that BT is powerless to fix this problem today. They would have needed a time machine. The question isn't could the fix the problem with more product, the question is why don't they fix the problem by raising prices and taking profits. If they are the evil corporation that everyone says they are why are they letting flippers and unscrupulous liquor store owners make THEIR MONEY?
@@BourbonRealTalk I chatted with an online retailer recently and asked if he felt the least bit guilty for charging double for a Booker’s (knowing darn well he didn’t). But what I didn’t expect was that he said Jim Beam made him buy about $10K worth of other Beam booze he didn’t need in order to get the Booker’s. Who knows if that’s actually true, but quite interesting if it is and offers more insight to the consumer/screw-ee.
@@yanksrule311 We discuss this business tactic in the video. It is technically illegal and the legal term is called an Inducement. It can be a bit of grey area. It isn't Jim Beam doing it, but Jim Beams state wholesaler. The rep comes in and says, "Hey, I would love to get you some Bookers, but we are reserving those for our best Jim Beam customers. You just don't sell that much volume". This is technically legal. Once the rep says "To get at that level you will need to sell X amount of Y products", then it becomes illegal. It happens in one way or another to literally ever independent liquor store owner I have ever talked to.
Wow! I am a new whiskey enthusiast. This is such great analysis and information. Thank you so much! I started learning about whiskey about a couple of months ago and already learned so much from people like you. Please keep up the good work. I have not gone over all your videos or podcast, but I have noticed in my experience so far that it is difficult to hunt allocated bottles in my area without knowing the shop owner. I also don't want to buy many unnecessary bottles to make them think I am a valued customer that they should be my friend. But I am sure there are some tips or middle ground to build that relationship. If you haven't made a topic on that, I would love to hear your thoughts.
So glad to have you as a viewer. Here is a video I did on that subject:
th-cam.com/video/YqjctB9mb2A/w-d-xo.html
We tried to tour Buffalo Trace. Covid restricted the tour sizes. Tickets were online only. We were able to visit the Company Store. There was no Bourbon available for sale. They had even taken all bottles from gift sets to help customers get product. It is a nice place to visit. Bourbon Trail tours are on our to do list this year.
Covid has stopped a lot of people from having a full experience in KY, but hopefully it gets better soon.
Excellent video. You speak a lot of sense my friend.
Glad you think so! If you want more of this type of content I would like to personally invite you to our free member group. facebook.com/groups/bourbonrealtalkcommunity
@@BourbonRealTalk Thank you - that’s very kind of you. I’m not on Facebook but I will definitely check out the website. Your video on “Hunting techniques” was also excellent - great insights. Glad I subscribed!
Great analysis. These are things I've never really thought about.
It is complicated. This piece was not one I could just google and get all the information. It actually took me years to talking with people in the industry to put together all the pieces.
@@BourbonRealTalk It shows bro.
Lots of excellent insights, Randy.
Glad it was helpful! Thank you for supporting the channel!
Great channel. Very informative.
Thank you!
I’m a newbie to bourbon and have enjoyed your videos immensely. I’ve just started my collection with a five bottle line up of Eagle Rare, Calumet 15 year, Blanton’s, Weller Special Reserve, and Four Roses Special Reserve Single Barrel. The Eagle Rare is great for making an old fashion. I don’t think I’m developed enough to appreciate the Calumet. I’ve held off on opening the Blanton’s and Weller so far. The Four Roses is a different story…it has blown me away, and makes a nice sipping, neat of course, spirit after a long day,.
Don't be afraid to open the Blanton's and WSR. They are not going to degrade before you drink them. I think having a diverse line up of bottles and trying them side by side is a great way to develop your palate and see what you like. 4R is high rye, so you might explore that. Try an Old Grand Dad BiB or 114. Pick up a Bulliet and see if you like it. Also high rye with very similar distillation techniques as 4R (the two companies histories are intertwined). Try a Russel's rye or Knob Creek rye. Cheers!
@@BourbonRealTalk Thanks for the feedback, really excited about getting deeper into the bourbon game. Love the channel and the presentation, really good for someone wanting to learn with an open mind.
Such an eloquent way of explaining the inflated prices of bourbon in today’s market. I will also add that while it’s true that the distillers aren’t necessarily withholding inventory to limit the supply, I’ve heard that distributors hold on to inventory at warehouses. I think local reps also play the game, and manipulate small retail stores by requiring them to move inventory (like fireball or Wheatley vodka) just to receive a few bottles of Weller or any other Buffalo “Chase” products. So that’s also a big reason why retail shops jack up the prices. Because they have to make up the cost of the 80 cases of Fireball they had to buy just to get the one bottle of George T Stagg.
I know this to be true because the last few allocated bottles I have gotten at retail at the end of the year were not that year's release. Old inventory they had not doubt to reward key accounts that they decided to get out of the warehouse after a couple of years.
I work in the liquor industry and skateboard industry that has me laughing when flippers get their greedy hands on stuff then jack the prices up. I work for a large company in TX but have spoken to mom/pop shops who have been strongarmed to carry a ton of Fireball to get a couple bottles of the good stuff, Nike is the same way with their SB shoes for skate shops which is why we do not carry skate shoes in our shop. Great video!
At least with the shoe shot you can choose not do buy Nike. They liquor stores still have to deal with the wholesaler because they get so much of their inventory from them.
Well done. It was nice to listen to, despite the unpleasant problem. I think you hit the point who buys this expensive whiskey. Greetings from Poland.
Yay! An international viewer!
Excellent content and just the information I needed as I'm curious of/about US made whiskies, especially bourbons. As an everyday regular Joe living in Finland, good bourborns are really hard to find.
I hear the same thing from a lot of overseas viewers. The good news is the bourbons that do make it over are from major producers who do not make bad products. The downside is you don't get access to a much of the product that is highly sought after.
Randy this is an excellent video. It should be the de facto video to explain the inflated prices to all whiskey enthusiasts.
Glad you liked it. Luckily a lot of people have seen it!
Great video! I recently purchased the weller single barrel, weller full proof and George T Stagg for $200 at a local liquor store!
Congrats! Hope you enjoy. Those are some good prices!
@@BourbonRealTalk I live in Oregon, prices are always good! Stagg is awesome, haven’t hade the others yet.
Truly enjoyed this explanation of the pricing issue. It affects anyone who enjoys just about any bourbon beyond well drink level.
It’s kind of the Wild West here in L.A. While the chain retailers typically charge SRP (Total Wine, BevMo), the supplies disappear almost immediately. Inventory is slim and thinly distributed throughout the system. The big box stores (Costco) graciously offer discounts even on higher demand juice (e.g., Calumet 15 @$98, Barrell Seagrass and Dovetail @ $70 and $65, Knob Creek 12 @$56). Some retailers have websites that offer real time inventory on their stocks and offer at or near SRP (K&L) but the “bots” scoop up all of the precious few allocated bottles before any average customer can. K&L also will set aside super-allocated bottles like BTAC and offer those at SRP only to their frequent customers.
The “small business-owned” liquor shops will mark up ~40-50%>SRP (ECBP @$100) or close to or at secondary market prices. EH Taylor Single Barrel ~$250? Old Carter for $300+? Those bottles sit on the shelves collecting dust. I’d think that Inventory that sits and takes up shelf space is not a wise business decision for a retailer but that’s just me.
The bourbon supplies in general will eventually reach at or near equilibrium with demand one day - I’m betting within the next four to six years. There’s far too much money being left on the table.
It will happen eventually! Thanks for watching!
Love the pod.. I'm in Australia.. we have no nope.. no stock, no allocations of over priced hooch, no scale or buying power & we have a huge tax on booze to boot.. plus don't forget the cost of transit.. we pay approx. $130 for a bottle of hooch that's probs $50 in US&A.. we sadly probs a 3rd or 4th tier market from an allocation / buying power POV.. not a global centre of Bourbon sales, events or buying power.. 😥
Thank you for the view from Australia. Sorry to hear bourbon is so hard to come by. On a positive note, I used to drink wine. I couldn't afford all the great wines I wanted to drink so I would buy common wines, but I would research everything I could before I opened it, I would adjust the temp to the perfect serving temp, I would decant it, and some how it made it taste better. I think that if bourbon is that hard to come buy you brain may enjoy it that much more when you do get it...at least I hope that is the case. Cheers!
@@BourbonRealTalk well.. yes we are spoilt with wine! We do get some bourbon BUT some the lovely drops you mention at $100 are $400-500 over here & near impossible to find.. maybe we should do an exchange? Lols. Love the vlog. Safe travs.
Very informative video sir. You have earned a new subscriber in myself! These are sad times in the bourbon industry in my opinion. I'm only 30 but I wish I had bought a lot of this allocated stuff when you could find it in liquor stores for MSRP. 😫
Btw what akin products do you use? Your skin is perfect lol
Same! And what I did buy I drank. Made a lot of good memories so I can't complain.
My wife is an esthetician. I mostly use Image products. I use image daily cleanser, moisturizer with SPF, and what ever eye cream my wife rejected since I am not picky.
@@BourbonRealTalk nice! Thanks for the response man! I'll have to check that product out! Thanks!
This video should be called "Bourbon School" Great content.
Thank you so much!
Very informative keep up the good work
Thanks, will do!
At some sneaker drops, the retailer is making the buyer put on the shoes and walk out of the store in them. It helps tear down the resale market as it’s now “used” and loses value.
If they really wanted to end the bourbon secondary market, they would just make people open the bottle before they walk out of the store.
End of the day, it goes both ways and retailers will continue to gouge as long as consumers are willing to pay those prices.
I do recommend offering to open your bottle in store, but in some state it is illegal.
I have found so many whiekies I like for reasonable prices, I can't force myself to pay more that about $80 for a bottle, usually closer to $50. For single malt, my cutoff price is about $110. For my tasting ability, that's where my ROI starts to drop off pretty fast.
That is a solid strategy. No need to spend a bunch of money to have a nice pour.
The eye opening was that the Papy won an award because they were 2% better on over all flavor. Now it's 700% over MSPR. That's a pricey 2%
My interest in Bourbon is new, and mostly casual. I’m learning about this allocation and gouging stuff.
I’ve spent most of my adult life interested in wine, and while you don’t quite see the same thing there, what I did learn over the years is a $45 bottle of Oregon Pinot Noir is just as good as a $1,300 bottle of Grand Cru Burgundy. Essentially what I’m saying is unless you’re extreme into this hobby, I’m guessing that your first sip of a $1,300 bottle of bourbon is going to quickly fade to the disappointment of realizing it’s only marginally better, if at all, than a $45 to $60 bottle of bourbon. Correct me if I’m wrong. I just don’t feel the temptation to chase a bottle of VanWinkle only to learn that lesson again.
Literally why I got into bourbon. I used to collect wine. I acquired a bottle of 1983 Chateau Petrus and kept it for years. I finally opened it, drank it with a friend in about 45 min, and never bought another expensive bottle of wine. I like to share, and wine does not last long enough after you open it for it to truly be something you share. I switched to whiskey and buy a lot of hard to find bottles to have the experience of drinking them with someone who would not otherwise have a chance to try them.
@@BourbonRealTalk you’re a good friend! Greetings from ATX.
Your Exactly correct, I chose plain bottled 'Buffalo Trace' over "Pappy van winkle 15yr" in a blind tasting.. I was taken aback to say the least. The Buffalo trace was 30 dollars a bottle and the pappy was 2,700 however I did prefer the nose of the Pappy over the Buffalo, very strange.
Personally I think you are exactly right.And people that by the fireball stuff,should just eat that candy “Atomic fire balls”and drink Jim Beam on top…be the perfect burn..Going in,and comin out..
So true
Fantastic, absolutely fantastic video.
Glad you enjoyed it. Thank you for supporting the channel!
Dude this is the coolest most educational video of whiskey I think I've watched
Thank you!
You’re right about Fireball. A store owner told me that he has to have perfect Fireball sales in order to get allocated stuff.
I have heard that from many sources.
Very educational. I don’t agree with everything you said, but where else can you get this much great info in such a well done format? Oh, and I love you too!! 😁
I do not want people to adopt my opinions but I do hope I provoke people to do their own research and come to their own conclusions. If you have not watch many episode you may not know why I use my sign off. This is going to get sad for a second so I apologize. My brother was in the military and sadly took his own life in 2014. I realized that there are people all around us that feel alone and unloved. I also noticed that bourbon brings people together. I see so many people expressing hate towards strangers on the internet. I figure if those people can hate someone they don't know...I can love them just as easily. Plus, I kind of love everyone until they give me a reason not to. Put it all together and I started a podcast to use the connective power of bourbon to bring people together and help everyone know they are loved and apart of a community.
@@BourbonRealTalk hell yeah man!
Love the last point you made about a possible none whiskey enthusiast buying a bottle extremely overpriced for someone else as a gift! Never thought of it that way but I can see that happening more than one thinks!
Thank you for watching the video and for your comment. Yes, it's important to consider that some people might be buying overpriced bourbon as gifts without realizing the true value of the bottle. It's a good reminder to always do your research before making a purchase. Have you ever bought a bottle of bourbon as a gift?
great video man ,, don't know about you but when i see a retail liquor store mark up a bottle like that i just go somewhere else. that is just BS .. some places do a lotto or some other way to get your favorite bottle ,, and that's cool because they still sell it at MSRP. and thank you buffalo trace for not raising prices so everyone can enjoy your great products...!!
Thanks! I do the same thing. No reason to try to form a relationship with my local store if the benefit is me giving them my money for something I could get anywhere else. I need to spend my money where it will benefit the store and me.
Great information, the Chicago market is very difficult to find anything Weller, Buffalo Trace itself is getting harder to find.
BT is on allocation in TX
Saint Louis is the same bt is allocated but easily findable any weller is marked up alot though
Thank you great video. I've not seen this kind of economic content.
Glad you liked it. My channel tries to go a little deeper in a serious direction. Basically what I would want to watch as an enthusiast.
Well said🥃. Thanks
Thank you for watching!
Enjoyed then information! All the info compacted into a quick video. Another thing that may affect some markets. Taxes. Washington State is 20+% + a liter tax. One adjacent state, no tax. Both state run still. 3 wide range of prices... costs. I do like the analysis of the market. Thanks.
Thanks
Do you go to Oregon to get your whiskey? I'm in Washington too but I'm thinking of starting to make road trips for higher end bottles.
@@dada191 not often enough! I have a neighbor who goes to Idaho a lot, and they'll mule back if it's on my list. I got a lot in Oregon too. Thing is, hard to find and by some definition, expensive, hard to find there too, so no guarantee. Really, it's loading up on the higher priced but common bottles that make it worth the trip. Rare if found, a bonus.
good channel bud. keep it up.
Appreciate it!
Outstanding!
Thank you kindly!
Blew my mind with the power of the influence of the Pappy brand on Fireball and others for Sazerac. I think the price gouging also takes advantage of whiskey novices who don't know about or have access to the secondary market, and have heard of but never seen a bottle of Weller Full Proof, GTS, etc., and freak out and buy it if they can even remotely afford it.
Solid point. I have saved some whiskey people from this. Not at 18X msrp, but at above secondary.
I wonder how often that happens, and the person doesn’t even like the product? Just from the hype of it being rare, and influencers telling them how good it is.
@@rockinpranch8173 If you drink enough whiskey you come to the conclusion the the flavor difference between the rarest bottle and a solid drinker is NOT worth the money the rare bottles cost on secondary, so I think this must be happening some or the stores would not be pricing the bottles this way.
What works for me is after a few visits I tell the owner to sell me something allocated at a fair price and I will buy a few bottles of the things that don’t move. End up using them for mixes and cocktails.
That is a good plan. Lines up with the idea of helping the store accomplish their goals.
I literally just had a conversation at a store in California yesterday on this exact topic. What happens here is the distributors leverage the store to take on more inventory of other products if they want to get of the allocated bottles. They will add up to an additional 1k of inventory just to get a couple of Weller bottles. The other thing I'm curious about is why the producers send product to distributors in countries that do not typically consume bourbon in any kind of volume. I have friends who travel to Canada and they send me pictures of highly sought after bottles that are on their shelves 10 bottles deep with dust on them. Why don't they send more of that to the states where it is clearly in demand?
The specific situation where rare bottles are collecting dust isn't happening anywhere in the world anymore. It was happening at the beginning of the inventory crunch, but not now. The reason why they are still shipping to foreign markets when demand in the US is so high is because the US almost let bourbon become a thing of the past in the 70-90s. Foreign markets kept bourbon alive. Now they have enough demand to sell all they have hear, but can not let foreign markets die for two reasons. One, they don't know if the USA will turn their backs on bourbon again. Two, they all have invested literally billions in increasing capacity, and without foreign market growth they will all go bankrupt when capacity comes online if it doesn't sell.
This was very informative
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video! The stores that don't do this are few and far between. Luckily, I found one when vacationing in FL, bottle of weller special reserve for 21.99! In MI that bottle ranges from 50-100
I am lucky to live in TX. We get so much Weller that I get multiple bottles of Antique and 12 per year, and special reserve is usually on the shelves.
Last night I paid $19.99 for Buffalo Trace in FL. You can imagine where I’m shopping from now on. They easily could have doubled that. They didn’t. They did limit 1 bottle per customer. I can live with that.
I can get BT on the shelf at any number of stores here. The store in FL were I got the weller said they only did 1 bottle as well, either BT or Weller. I was shocked that BT was only 1 bottle.
BT is 26.99 in MI, we have state minimum here and that is what BT state min is and generally what it is sold for.
@@jlb9074 I love a nice find!
I have pretty much stopped drinking/purchasing bourbon because of the wacked out pricing. My tastes now seem to run towards several scotch distillers. The nice thing about it is these are not price gouged and are easily purchased. So, I have been able to move on and enjoy the choices I have.
The scotch industry has been adjusting pricing to market value for decades. Bourbon has not, and it has resulting in some wacky pricing by stores and the secondary compared to MSRP. I still think shelf bourbons represent a relative value compared to scotch.
My retail theory is as follows; the stores that get there 3-6 bottles of GTS or pappy, or whatever, don’t really want to sell them. It’s not like those bottles are lots of overhead so they can sit around for when the taters call up asking for pappy, the shop owner can say “yup I have a bottle”. Tater runs down there sees price and balks, but does he leave empty handed? Nope, shop owner “suggests” his high margin spirit and if super tater comes in has to have that pappy juice to impress is bros, then shop guy is happy to sell him that bottle for $2k.
Good vid, thanks for laying it out there for the noobs to understand why we’re all being jacked around. There’s plenty of good bourbon out there at retail folks, don’t pay 10x for those unicorn bottles.
That may be the logic, but I have seen more high volume purchasers swear to never spend a penny in a store that gouges than I have seen taters picking up daily drinkers. My argument to the store is to use those few bottles to reward behavior you want to see more of, not to chase away the volume business that keeps your doors open.
Thanks for these dearly needed explanations and perspectives about the bourbon market. I’ve been an enthusiast for a long time and was already aware of most of the facts you shared. But some of your ideas and theories were new and interesting. Some of your assertions are more broadly focused and forthcoming than one can typically expect from whiskeytubers in general and it was refreshing to hear them. I don’t agree with every interpretation and definition of economic theory and moral philosophy, but I’m not educated in those areas to make concise arguments to counter your claims in a readable TH-cam comment. Suffice to say that this video made me think more about the whiskey business and the experience of being an enthusiast more than anything I’ve seen on TH-cam, perhaps ever. And I’ve seen a lot of TH-cam whiskey content. So... great job! And thanks for all the food for thought.
Glad you enjoyed. I want people to interpret my opinions as talking points and not necessarily as me trying to educate.
At 16:00, the actual role of the tier system was to control the entire supply chain and ensure excise tax collection. It continues to be sold as a “protection measure” against downward pricing pressure as you say; however, in practice it’s now become protection for the distributors given the large amount of industry consolidation (i.e. Southern Glazers).
Agreed! We will see if Sazerac's recent moves will open the door for change.
Thanks Randy
Thank you!
Отличное пояснение👍👍👍✊✊✊
Рад, что вам понравилось!
I was in the retail biz….starting about 1990, and for the next roughly 20 years, thru that time saw the release of eagle rare and no one wanted it, Forrester was a brand no one really purchased, I’d sell 20 cases JD, to one bottle of forester.
Turkey…maybe a case a month, 114 a bottle a month.
Point is this has evolved out of nowhere.
No one really purchased Evan Williams.
I was around for the rollouts of Sky, Amsterdam, etc…..
What will be “the category” in another 10 years????
If you "know" that, you should move to wall street ASAP 😂
One correction I would make is that Sazerac (who owns Buffalo Trace) is not a publicly traded company as you mentioned. They are a privately owned corporation.
You are correct sir! I was informed of that fact by the owner of the label company that prints their labels on Monday. I was ignorant of that fact until then. I am sorry for my error.
@@BourbonRealTalk Other than that I think everything was excellent!
My path has been just being a friendly customer to many of the local liquor stores buying store picked bottles and asking about allocations when you get to the register. I'm equally happy with most of my single barrel store picks as I am with the allocations bought as well.
Same. I don't even drink my allocated bottles unless I am sharing with someone else.
@@BourbonRealTalk Yeah me too! That helps with the relationships with the store owners too if they see cork pop n pour pics of the allocations being shared with friends.
Good video, I have seen alot of markups in my local shops. I was lucky enough to find two bottles of Stagg Jr for MSRP before it went up to $299.99 and then to $399.99.
I just don't understand how the stores try to charge more than secondary. Just have it shipped to your house.
@@BourbonRealTalk I hear ya. There is too much good stuff to be had out there, why overpay? Like $100+ for Eagle Rare lol
I wish my mom would buy me some WLW lol Great video, good breakdown
Funny story. Christmas 2019 my wife gifted me a WLW. I lost my freaking mind! I could not believe what I was seeing! I just keep asking "How? How? How?". Turned out she had won the local lottery. I knew the store manager. He asked me if he could hook me up with a bottle what would I want, but stated he could not make any promises. I told him WLW, so he told my wife to pick that. It was for sure the best Christmas surprise of my adult life!
Ahhhh... Marketing and Capitalism 101.
Great analysis of the game.
Thanks
Well said. I believe it is greed. A $69 bottle for $189? Greed....as they get minimal allocated amount of bottles to make a dent to their bottom line on an annualized basis.
They should get the allocated bottles and sell one allocated bottle per customer while supplies last.
I personally do not patronize stores that sell allocated bourbons at Sky high prices.
Thanks!