Cartridge History: The .451 Detonics Magnum is a Supercharged .45 ACP
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 พ.ค. 2024
- All the best firearms history channels streaming to all major devices:
weaponsandwar.tv
Detonics was founded as a company in the 1970s, making high-end 1911 pistols. Their first product that really put them on the map was their 3" micro-compact 1911; something that just wasn't available on a production basis at the time. After the .45 Winchester Magnum cartridge was introduced in 1979, Detonics jumped at the chance to now make a higher-power .45 cartridge that would fit the 1911 magazine. Since the .45 WinMag brass was much thicker at the base than .45 ACP, Detonics was able to cut it down to ACP length (actually one millimeter longer, to prevent it from being chambered in a standard .45 ACP chamber). They then cranked up the pressure and were able to increase velocity by 30% over the original .45 - and they called the new round .451 Detonics Magnum.
Detonics made several different models of pistol in their new cartridge, both standalone guns, replacement slides for other frames, and package sets with both .45 and .451 barrels. They were never able to get an ammunition manufacturer on board though, and the .451 remained a hand loading proposition throughout its entire life. This crippled its chances at becoming mainstream, and it remains a very niche cartridge to this day. Its successors included the .45 Super and the .460 Rowland, which survive today but are definitely special-interest offerings.
utreon.com/c/forgottenweapons/
/ forgottenweapons
www.floatplane.com/channel/For...
Cool Forgotten Weapons merch! shop.forgottenweapons.com
I would love to see more collabs between you and Ian mcollum
Ian is so wholesome that his evil twin is still a better man than you.
This is just like the time there was an episode of Malevolent starring Harlan Guthrie, Harlan Guthrie, and special guest Harlan Guthrie
Ian MCollum vs Ian Mcbubba 😉
Is he God or the son of God?
@@thekraken1173whichever one is ur favorite, it’s that one. personally i like ian mccollum
“Hi I am Ian McCollum”
“Hi I am also Ian McCollum”
(in unison)
“and welcome to Forgotten Weapons”
That would actually make for a great intro
It would be better if they butchered the editing, so one of the Ian's is slightly behind the other
Which one is from Elbonia?
Forgotten weapons is tight!
Make the "and welcome to Forgotten Weapons" twice as loud with audio clipping and I'm sold.
Oh man if someone says they carry a .45 because they don't make a .46, and you whip out your .451 that's such a savage flex that the other guy is genuinely never going to recover.
.460 Rowland enters the chat.
What if I pull out the .475 I got cause I watched Death Wish lol
@@fluffywolfo3663then my friend, you win. 😁
Wildey can catch “the Giggler”
@@fluffywolfo3663 Oh man that guy with a .455 Webley starting to look REAL stupid right about now.
I love the "Forgotten Cartridges" vids!
Yes, please do more of these
We'll call the series "...And the next guy who wanted to shoot 44 magnum out of an automatic was..."
Remember, it's always faster to draw your backup Ian than it is to reload your main Ian....
One Ian is no Ian and two Ians is one Ian..
Oh god! Ian has undergone mitosis again!
i know, i hate it when it happens to me
@@johnsmith-jq1uc I've learned not to eat too much thia food. Seems to keep it in check.
Again?
@@1SilverDollar don't worry about it. Just..... don't.
Well thats what happens when he finds enough .32 French long.
Fun fact. The HK Mark 23 is most likely the only current mass production handgun that can withstand running thousands of 45 Super rounds without issues (without ANY modifications). The USPs can shoot small amounts of 45 Super, but large quantities will damage it. FNX is similar to USP in regards to 45 Super.
A box stock Mark 23 will even run 460 Rowland without issues. Having the stock barrel chamber cut 1/16" deeper is all that's required.
The stock progressive recoil/buffer assembly (looks like a shock assembly for an RC car) works even with 460 Rowland pressures.
"They don't make a .46."
"They make a .50."
"... Bu-but that ruins the joke. Shut up."
I actually remember when the punchline was "because they don't make a .50", but then people went and made .50s so the joke had to change.
The Detonics Magnum has been a dream gun of mine ever since I saw some ads for them in old issues of SGN, as a kid back in the early 80's; continuing with a .460 Rowland in current day.
I'll never own either, but once again I can do it vicariously with Ian. Win!
Never say 'never,' sir! Maybe you'll get lucky and finally score a Score Master or Combat Master this year. 🤞
460 rocks if you reload. I have FNX 45T and Glock 21 converted over to 460 and they rock. Just need everything dialed in.
Born in 71. Have the same feelings.
I converted a G21 to .460 Rowland quite a few years ago... Used a longer barrel and a different style compensator... I also used a barrel that was chambered for .45ACP and used either .45SUPER or cut down .308 (7.62x54) brass... Because of everything being so "non-standard" in my build, I never found an acceptable holster for it -- the compensator either prevented the gun from going into a holster or it seemed to catch on the holster that when I was drawing the gun...
Fun fact: a .451 Magnum factory-accurized Detonics Scoremaster was the service pistol used by officer Eugene Tackleberry in _Police Academy II._
Score Masters were also used in the Tom Selleck movie Runaway
Videos like this are the epitome of why Ian is such a huge figure in the gun video creation space in my opinion. It gives an incredibly detailed look at the history of not just this gun but all the stages it took to get the ammunition to this point and why it became possible in the first place. Sprinkle in some excellent footage of this rare firearm being disassembled and finish with the ammo "where are they now" to tie up all the loose ends.
Detonics, companies really had cooler names back then.
Now we get names like Huxworx 🤮
After growing a third arm, Ian realized it would be more practical to just grow another Ian!
"I want a .46 for my carry pistol."
"Best I can do for ya is .451..."
45 long slide with laser sighting.
@@Daniel-Weaver"Phased plasma rifle in 40-watt range."
@@paleoph6168NICE
"Ok ."
Only what ya see pal!
I only know about the Detonics Combat Master was because John Roarke carries a pair in Jerry Ahearn's "Survivalist" series. Now, whenever I hear Detonics, I perk up "Oh aye? This should be interesting."
I loved those books, and there was *so* much gun in them…
I am a nerd. I am positive that Ahern almost always referred to the character as John Thomas Rourke. But thank you, I shall have to read what titles I have from that series!
Tom Selleck was in an 80's movie called Runaway in which he & the other Cops carried Detonics Score masters...
I had a blue steel Detonics Combat Master back in the dark ages...spoke to the factory & they said originally they used cut down 1911 frames & mine was one of the first 100 they made using their own smaller frames...
I still have all of my Ahern series books, maybe 33 Survivalists, Track, Takers, The Freeman. I have a custom micro 1911 that was built with an Essex frame that used Combat Master mags, Commander slide. Still have the Detonics mags with it. Ahern eventually bought the Detonics brand name, tried reviving the company. It failed before he passed away.
@williamt6122 oh I'm sure they're available on eBay & other places but, honestly ole Jerry was way over the top from the very beginning...
I mean surviving an airliner crash, traveling on nuclear submarines, being in suspended animation for 500 years, etc...🤣🤣
I have the complete series of The Survivalist. I think they are 27 books. I read the books. Bought a Combat Master. I was tempted to get a second, so I could use the two holster shoulder setup. That would be a bit extreme. But, I did get a Scoremaster in 45acp, and another in .451 Detonics Magnum. That slide is labeled 451 Detonics Magnum 45acp. I shoot 45acp without issue, and I load 451 from 45 WM brass. Prices on the Scoremaster have more than doubled, but can still be found on GB occasionally. The Scoremaster trigger is excellent, as is the accuracy. Thanks for the update on the 451 Detonics Magnum.
Nice! When I was reading the Survivalist series I learned that AG Russell’s shop was nearby. Of course I had to visit him and buy a black chrome Sting 1A. Mr Russell was a real gentleman.
I’m also a fan of Jerry Ahern and finally bought a Combat Master a few years ago. Buying a Score Master in the 90s was always a dream of mine.
Love the 460 Rowland. Cool history lesson.
Calibur .451, The Firemen's choice
Q: Do you read the load data charts before handloading .451?
A: It is FORBIDDEN to read the load data charts before handloading .451!
🤔
Only place I'd ever heard of the .451 before was one of the novels of L. Neil Smith. One of his characters had a Gold Cup converted to that, described by the character as a "late 20th century wildcat cartridge".
Mr.Smith has passed away but his books live on.
A.E. Maxwell's "Fiddler & Fiora" series mentions the .451 Detonics, too; the protagonist gets a Detonics Score Master in .451 to replace his 9mm Combat Master after he's faced with a situation where his love interest is taken hostage and he isn't confident enough to get a headshot with the 9mm, so he ends up having to meet the hostage taker's demands
“My name is Scott, and you’re watching Kentucky Ballistics. Today, we have a 3” .451 Detonics Magnum…”
On the downside, the recoil means that you’re probably not going to hit your shots; on the upside, if you fire that thing in a dark alley your assailant is going to be blind, deaf, and running for his life from what he thinks is a sawed-off shotgun.
😂😂😂😅 oh Scott would drool over that.
It's always a pleasure to meet a man of culture
The Star PD has a good argument for being the first really compact 1911.
A sadly underrated gun imho.
@@RiderOftheNorth1968 Not by me, though I'll concede their day has passed.
@@jaym8027 There are better offerings now, yes, but when the PD came (mid 70s?) it was great for it´s intended use. Another "forgotten Star" is the Firestar.
Showing your age. I've owned and loved some stars for some stupid reason.
@@blindtrace7220 Yep. I had a Model B that was the straightest shooting gun I ever owned.
YES YES YES! "Hot rod" 1911 conversions are my favourite, especially detonics. .400 cor-bon is also a really interesting load, and .450 SMC which i think is .451 but suitable for standard 1911's aside from changing the recoil springs.
The .451 Detonics sounds like a 70s alt pop band
Now you’ve got to start the rumor that such a band did exist, and let the Mandela Effect do the rest…
Lead singer was Sid Woodcock
Ian is creating an army of clones in order to take over the world using obscure French weaponry.
Yes but sadly his Elbonian allies will betray him with a hodgepodge of bad guns ammo and supplies.😢
The French Ian Legion
I have a Series 80 Colt Officer's Model that had to have a similar recoil spring plug installed. The standerd barrel bushing would break as it could not withstand the 'abuse'. You could also not use a buffer on the spring guide with the short barrel as the slide needed every fraction of an inch for the slide to recoil.
The big solution for the unsupported chamber was to develop the ramped barrel, that requires modifying the frame. That was pushed during the earlier days of ISPC/USPSA competition where shooters would try to load 38 Super to make 'major' in the power classification. ( the super would hold more rounds in the magazine, maybe less recoil and compensators worked better with the cartridge than the 45 ACP) The 38 Super could do it but it was a fine line between making 'major' and having the case blow out. Having temperature sensative powder did not help.
Maybe a video on the OG magnums
(357, .44, and .41 magnum)
Little known fact - Magnum pistol cartridges are actually named after the condom brand, which in turn is named after the ice cream.
@@lostalone9320
I thought the name originated with a champagne brand
@@ADRay1999 It's actually a bottle size for champagne. For FRENCH reasons they just have names for the sizes. And magnum is the double size bottle, with magnum meaning "big" in latin. But it's funnier if the magnum dong is the origin. Like, literally everything called a magnum means "big dick energy".
I worked at Detonics while this was under development, but never went down that road myself.
i'll never understand why 10mm became the "big bore autoloader" caliber in the mainstream when .460 blows it out of the water, and also lets you use regular old .45acp to train with.
10mm became the mainstream because it’s a F’n beast!!!
@@peggymorgan6355 - 10 mm is a solid cartridge and it enjoys a capacity advantage over most 460 platforms. But 45 super will match 10mm numbers. If you handload then you can reach levels the 10mm could never dream of reaching.
Here is a link to some testing using my modified 70 colt. This is part 1 of 3 and the loads are making close to 800 fpe. Part 2 & 3 move into 900 fpe territory slinging 260 grn slugs.
45 Super +P Handloads - Quest for 460 Rowland Power - Part 1
th-cam.com/video/EXxxwhsHUlA/w-d-xo.html
I have been waiting for this one. I was fascinated with the concept having spent some of my teenaged years in Alaska and was a fan of the 1911 early on. I never bought one of the more power 1911's as it was no longer needed since departing Alaska. A lovely bit of history and development. Thanks!
To be fair, the .451 is probably not needed in Alaska either, or really anywhere else. Perhaps in a country where people don't place cultural value on the small bones of the hand.
@@lostalone9320 What is the point you are going for with this comment?
@@Hybris51129 Just literally making a joke. So, what was your point?
@@lostalone9320 Sorry, I took your joke as some sort of anti-gun statement. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
@@lostalone9320as rural Alaskan LE, as someone who has stalked and been stalked by brown bear, and as someone who has shot brown bear I'd say that yours is the most ignorant comment in this thread.
As for small bones of the hand? No worries here.
BTW, predators generally start eating the moment they can...they don't have the common courtesy of waiting until their prey is dead.
Hopefully you continue this series into other .45ish calibers. I want to see a video on the NAACO brigadier in .45 NAACO aka winchester magnum.
I have a low serial scoremaster in .45, I had been shopping for one for years but every one that came up was in .451 and it’s cheaper to run a .50 BMG than a .451 detonics magnum.
It would be cool to see more videos on the history of forgotten and relevant cartridges. A look at the how and why manufacturers developed and arrived at those specs for that ammo. Such as the 8.5mm mars.
The almost .46, thanks for teaching me something new
I remember when ths came out. Was heavily hyped and I wanted the Combat Master.
You are 53 years old, right?
Thank you Ian that was a very interesting presentation. I have always been fascinated by cartridge design ballistics and history. 👍
I've never heard of this pistol, thanks for the cool video!
I don’t know what you did production wise, but production quality is superb on this video
I love this. It's a lot in like 15 minutes. I love everything about this video, including the intro.
Random fact. Detonics were used as hero guns in Airwolf starting in season 2. One scene even had the main character, Stringfellow Hawke, use a Scoremaster from the sliding window in the cockpit door in loo of the helicopter's weapons after taking damage against an armed boat (if i remember correctly).
Thanks for the video and history of the old Detonics. Decades ago, I looked seriously at an old Detonics and came very close to buying one, but decided to handload my 45 ACP's to what later became +P. Then the 45 Super brass came out, and since that time, I've been a die hard 45 Super guy. I converted a couple of strong 1911's with 28# spring kits and Wilson buffers, and proceeded to handload fairly stout Super loads with everything from 185's running 1,400+fps to 250 grain hard cast LRFN to 1,100 fps for bear. The Super can be loaded faster using Alliant Power Pistol, but these speeds and pressures seemed more sustainable in my weapons.
One of my 45 Supers wears a muzzle brake, and even with some of my hottest handloads, it is very controllable and not much different from any 45 ACP load in a non-braked version. Also, one of the beauties of my Supers is they will both run "good quality" 45ACP and +P loads without any changes.
Over the years, I have looked at the 460 Rowland, but given all the factors, I cannot find a reason to change from the 45 Super.
I've always loved these 45 mag stuff. I'd love to see some modern testing against 10mm.
The 1911 unsupported chamber was resolved with the introduction of at least two ramped barrel designs using swinging link and at least one linkless design.
The stock 1911 uses a ramp on the frame coupled with a heavily chamfered chamber mouth. The gap between the frame ramp and chamber can cause feed issues which is why the chamber is often unsupported
Nice to see this cartridge getting more attention, and thank you Ian, for educating more people on it.
This pistol and video are so cool. Ill watch it 30 times. Thanks, Gun Jesus.
Bringing back memories of reading "Executioner" books. Of course now the "more power big bullet" crowd can hunt down .450 SMC ammo to shoot (I'd love to see an episode on how the modern power up cartridges work)
Awesome opening! On the collaboration front, I'd love to see you and military historian Mark Felton on the range together.
TY!! Very much!! I LUSTED for this gun when it came out, but didn't have the coins!! A neighbor went ALL IN, and smirked!! As you pointed out, ammo availability was a BIG problem. Neighbor quietly became humble.😊. By time the .45 Super came out, I had went .357, and never looked back!! Still happy!!
1:53 "two guys one gun" oh dear lord 💀
Thanks for reminding me of Dean Grennell. I used to be a big fan. He had a lot of projects back in the day - some worthless, some useful, but all fun. I remember him naming his Remington Rand 1911 as "Ol' Loudmouf". Good days.
People don't realize that for a long time there weren't very many decent, reliable CCW guns. Detonics making compact 1911's were carried by members of Seal Team 6 and Red Cell back before Glock existed and they were very well appreciated by guys like Dick Marcinko: the founder of Seal Team 6. I remember reading Rogue Warrior 2 and having never heard of Detonics.
They're also building off of the success of Randall for being the first company to make a 1911 in stainless steel, although reliability was never 100% and their production was short lived.
Now I want to see an MP5 setup in 460 rowland.
My brother-in- law and I made most of the sears for Detonics (and some for Colt back then). They made the first cases from 30-06 brass.
I'd really enjoy seeing you do a video or two about the .357 maximum! My dad had a revolver in that for a while, but got rid of it because it was flame cutting the frame. He replaced that with a 14 inch barrel contender in the same cartridge for metallic silhouette shooting.
I always wanted a Detonics but could only afford a Glock 21 as a young man. The Glock was awesome but the Detonics build quality is another standard. Thank you for reminding me :)
Poor Ian. Spends a few days here in the UK and gets a cold.
8:08 200gr at 1200fps is rookie numbers. Gotta push them up!
(I've got a .45 super load that pushes a 200gr projectile at 1300fps and it's a safe load)
Imagined or chronograph?
@@georgesheffield1580 chrono'd. I only expected about 1200 or so feet per second, but was pleasantly surprised. It's also very consistent (using BE-86). TO BE FAIR, I'm using hard cast lead RNFP because it's a bear defense round. Use jacketed bullets and you'll lose about 50-75 or so feet per second and increase pressure.
200gr RNFP Hardcast (19 brinnell)
Starline .45 Super brass
CCI Large Pistol primer
10.2gr BE-86
Seat bullet to magazine length.
5" XDM Tac (stock threaded barrel) with Muzzle Brake and 22lb spring.
There is something interesting to note. I get higher velocities out of my XDM than I do my 1911 with the same barrel length. I get on average about 50fps difference between the two. I can't explain why.
Here is a video of a similar load I did with semi-wadcutters for my buddy that runs Alaskan Ballistics. It was 10.1gr power pistol out of a 6" barrel. I like the BE-86 load better.
th-cam.com/video/EYTEoCAYIEc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=dD-DT8x_EWN3YmR9
Fascinating pistol for sure. I'll take two of them and make one a left hand configuration.
I have wondered, from time to time "what if they made a magnum 1911, in .45acp _magnum_
Is your father Elmer Keith by any chance?
45ACP is based on 45 long colt, and if you want a magnum version of 45 long colt then you get 454 Casull.
Well there is the .45 Winchester Magnum...
Just not a whole lot of guns chambered in it.
They literally do, .460 Rowland.
Every time I google an obscure pistol round it tells me "...Aiming to get 44 magnum performance from an automatic pistol..." I know I can stop reading because it didn't work and no-one bought it. Because seriously, 44 magnum out of a revolver is totally fine, and an automatic gets you one or at most two extra rounds, all at the price of ammo that costs twice as much and is not commonly stocked.
“We’re Ian McCollum, and we’re here today…” was right there.
Very good video, Ian. The patron Saint of utube gun videos!
They do make a 50. The 45 croud usually do not like that.
Yeah, especially since it ruins their fun with their "they don't make a .46" joke.
I still have a Star PD and I believe it was also first made in 1975, not sure if Detonics beat them to production. Great little carry gun and very accurate and was advertised as lightest 45 ever due to duraluminum frame. Just remember to regularly replace plastic buffer.
I am litteraly reloading 460Rowland load data using 45ACP brass at the moment. 185gr XTP just under 1500fps. I am using a Glock 30S with a (fully supported chamber) KKM barrel and a steel muzzle brake. I do have 45super brass, but I only use .452 bullets with them while the .451s get the ACP.
I ran Underwood 45super for a long time with only a guide rod/springs upgrade. I like compensators.
I have the Scoremaster in .451. I use .460 Rowland brass cut down to .942 in and with the Hornady 185g XTP.
@@EdBluhm I got 250gn going over 1250fps but I don't plan on loading that hot. I just wanted to match 460R chrono readings I seen on youtube and see how my modified G30S handled it. It did great with a 13lbs spring, but a factory strength 17lbs is much better. I will only load them to 1100fps in the future. My 30S weighs 27.2oz empty with a 10rd mag. The 250s have little powder for the comp to use and still recoil high. I am only using 200gr max from now on. 200gr 1200fps shoot very well but 1450fps is max. I loaded 118gr to 1700fps and those shot very flat. Gonna try for 2000fps next time.
I remember what a big deal it was when these came out. They were very boutique guns, like a Wildey or AutoMag. You have to remember there was no internet. You had to mail order ammo from an advert in the back of a gun magazine, and pay by check or money order, or know a guy at the gun club, who knew a guy, who could probably do it, if you could get the brass for him to cut down.
We need that back in production!!!
Mack Bolan vibes intensify. Lovely looking firearm, that one.
One cartridge you mentioned in passing that I would have liked a couple of sentences on was the .45 +P. The who, when, and how it compares to the others.
.45 cal Ⅱ: Electric Boogaloo
Perfect album name tbh
An absolutely beautiful specimen, Ian, and your brief run-through of the .451 DMag's history is excellent (as always).
I have always like Detonics 1911s since they came on the market. Beautiful guns.
I wonder if the the 357 Sig can be restarted on the market th pccs and maybe some new toy from keltec. 125gr defensive 357 power, reliable feeding with plenty of capacity in the mag.
All that is needed is to bring down the ammo price and naming it 357 Auto. Not too hot, easy to control, . With the trend of compensators and porting in stock guns this can really work out in handguns too.
Thanks
I have been wanting a .460 Roeland in a custom double stack 1911 for the better part of nearly 20 years. Never realized just how long the history of hot wildcat cartridges based off of the .45 ACP was though.
The double stack M1911 is heresy. Single stack is more reliable and allows for less weight in the grip and on the gun in general, plus the single-stack grip has a slimmer profile. As for more ammo capacity, pistols in general are for IMMEDIATE dire close-quarters situations. When something has gone very wrong. If you're in a prolonged firefight, you need a rifle.
@@arnox4554 I have large hands and am comfortable with a thicker gun so why not have more ammo, I don't conceal carry so slimmness or the few extra ounces of weight don't matter as it's still lighter and less bulky than carrying a spare mag on my belt anyway, and ammo in the mag in the gun is more useful than in a spare mag anyway.
Your only valid point is that single stack mags are more reliable but the double stacks have come a long way in the last 20-30 years.
You want Heresy? Look at the super cut down and bobtailed 1911's and you might find it there, bonus points if it's a 9mm or smaller.
@@Hybris51129 Oh hell no. No argument about those cut down M1911s from me.
As to the weight and size of hands, I mean... If it works for you, fair enough, but I don't like it at all, and I don't like how it slightly increases the already higher difficulty of conceal-carrying an M1911.
I'm really hoping you have a video of you taking this to the range. I'm very interested in seeing and hearing your take on the performance.
I love 460 Rowland. Made hundreds of them in my shop here in AK. Great bear defense round.
I’ve wanted to upgrade recoil springs and run.45 super for some time. May eventually do it. Apparently if you get the right spring rate, your gun can cycle both.45 super and .45 acp reliably.
Yep I do it
I have loaded 45 Super velocities in standard 45 casings. Up to 1500 fps. Cycled well in my sig p220. Was a 185 grain bullet I believe. Of course do this at your own risk.
@@nicolatesla768 that’s pretty hot. I was planning on getting some 45 super brass, but was worried about accidentally mixing up casings.
Will probably still get the correct brass, but that makes me less nervous about accidentally getting some acp brass mixed in.
@@nicolatesla768as much as I love Sig I wouldn't do that. The 220 is a great gun, but it's not a USP or even a G21 when it comes down to sheer strength of build.
I'm sure you could do it a few times and get away with it, but eventually those locking lugs will give. Eventually.
I was using 45 win mag brass cut down to exact head spacing in my .45 for loading 45 super. With the heavy recoil spring it worked well for everything except light 45 Target loads. For ease of mass hand loading I settled on a load where I used the same 5.6 grains of W231 powder in my 220 grain 45 JHP and my 124 gr 9mm JHP loads. That became our normal trip to the range loads.
Love the video
Great video and history lesson. But I’m left with one question, what is the hottest “45”, 460 Roland or 45 Winmag?
.45 WinMag - 260 grain @ 1600 fps
.460 Rowland - 230 grain @ 1340 fps
It's not even close.
@@Sman7290 thanks for that info!! Glad I still have my LAR Grizzly in 45 WinMag after all these years.
The intro was great
They made a .455 Webley for years, 4 thou bigger than american .45 and it was the original "Manstopper"
.75 cal smoothbore flintlock pistol have entered the chat.
.45 Colt
.44 colt 1861 Army
But yeah they called the .455 Webley the "man stopper" first I think.
.460 Rowland in the FNX-45 is actually rather nice IMO. Despite the amount of power it's clearly pushing, it still shoots very nicely.
That being said, I don't know how much of that is just that it's a comped gun.
I carried a Scoremaster in standard 45 ACP as a duty weapon for about 13 years, and carried a Combat Master in stainless steel for an off-duty weapon for even longer. I still have both. Great guns.
I have genuinely considered the.460 Rowland upgrade as an upgrade kit, but I've already owned 10mm, 44 mag,.357 snubby, and .357 Derringer. I mean, as a "recoil junkie" how much more can I need? I'm 65 years old here people!
I really miss '80 and '90 carriages....
Now the market is flattened on the 9x19 another relic of the first year of '900
Love it.
Yeah, if the .45 ACP is a 'freight train', the .460 Rowland is a _runaway freight train._
I first came across the Detonics .45 ACP pistols in Jerry Ahern's long-lived ‘The Survivalist’ series of novels and became intrigued about them even though I neve clapped eyes on any in the UK.
The Detonics Comabt Master played a starring role in the 39 novel Survivalist series by Jerry Ahern but only in 45 ACP. It had rep as a prestige gun but not enough of one to help Detonics sell a lot more guns
Great review! I hope we see Ian(s?) running a Detonics, dare I say maybe channeling some of Jerry Ahern’s “John Thomas Rourke” . 👍😎👍
Someone at Detonics must have been an Omega fan with that name and stylized font on the slide.
"Score Master" is my new favorite nickname.
Love the fun intro
Great intro ✌️
Honestly, I'd love to see the company .460 Rowland produce their own pistol from the ground up designing it around using the .460 Rowland cartridge. Obviously, maintaining the use of standard .45 ACP magazines, but having a nicely beefed up pistol to handle the power and function reliably.
A lot of the 70's and 80's entries for Forgotten Weapons I am familiar with the names from the Endworld and Blade books.
@8:59 The Combatmaster was the compact with the shortest barrel. The 4" model you are thinking of was the "Servicemaster."
Ian, I have a WWI Veteran (1918 SN) .45 ACP, that was reconditioned by Ithaca for WWII. It then went to Korea and finally to my late BIL (USA-Special Forces) as his “Last Resort” weapon in Vietnam. (He had two .45 ACP, one a nickel plated “Parade Ground” version and obe gloss-blued one. (He gave the parade-ground one to his son and the other to me.)
I also have a .45 Super “Long Slide” made by Springfield. This has stronger recoil springs (21#). I heard that my old war horse .45 can handle the “Super” Rounds chamber pressure if I change the necessary parts. (I’d get a new barrel too.)
Can you share your wisdom on this matter? That LongSlide will shoot .45 regular, but it’s a BIT TO BIG for “Concealed Carry.” 😉
Great video, Ian(s)! Any chance we could see a deep dive into Para Ordnance?
Sonny Cockett used one of those little Detonics as his backup piece in the first few seasons.
The Survivalist will want that back..
Yes, what would John Thomas Rourke do? 🥸