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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ย. 2021
- Paul Kelly, research and apiary manager, talks about the Flow Hives.
Frequently asked questions: hbrc.ca/faq/
A descriptive transcript is available here: hbrc.ca/flow-hive/
For more videos, check out the University of Guelph's HBRC TH-cam channel at this link: @University of Guelph Honey Bee Research Centre
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Hello Paul and Katherine, such a nice presentation about the Flow-Hive, I don't know how I missed your evaluation. You're so right, according to the Flow-Company, more than 50 thousand beekeepers shared with them that they began beekeeping because of this honey removal capability. Wonderful and very thorough presentation, thank you!
Hi Fredrick
It was great to meet you at Honey in the Hills!
Good to hear you found this video relevant. We have two volunteers that use Flow hives. They both like how easy it is to harvest their honey.
Both volunteers have, however, had issues with high moisture honey and some fermentation at times. I wonder if the cells are too deep for effective honey ripening.
Do you have any thoughts about that Fred?
I'm a small commercial beekeeper in the Blue Mountains outside Sydney Australia. I get constant requests from hobbyists asking for help with their Flow Hives. I have to admit to them that I know little about Flow Hives. I do offer them a short course on management of bees and hives. Virtually all that have approached me expressed disappointment. They thought Flow Hives made beekeeping simple and easy. I gently explain to them that beekeeping can be complex and time consuming but highly rewarding. Thank you for this video. I have learnt a little more about Flow Hives. From my personal perspective, I enjoy the hands on aspect of beekeeping. Being able to regularly inspect and monitor my hives is part of the enjoyment I derive from beekeeping. All the best and thank you
Hi Roy
I think we have both had similar experiences. Thanks for your considered comments. I prefer to use traditional hives but felt a need to learn more about Flow hives so I can help others. Two of our volunteers have been helping me learn the ups and downs of managing Flow hives.
Glad for the post but you both said my thoughts exactly. I find immense enjoyment with keeping my bees and learning the craft is very interesting. Stay in the "middle lane". Most more experienced beekeepers will have little time tested experience and wisdom/ advice to offer. I've had over a dozen hives for over 10 years now and the friends I've made in our little bee community has enriched my life tremendously. I'm glad to have seen this post though as many have questioned me about flow hives.🤔😉
A neighbour here in Belgium has three Flow Hives, I played the ignorant big mouth until I tasted his honeys. I surprised myself that every frame has a very distinct and rich, separate taste. I became an immediate fan of Flow Hive, I am doing it as a hobby and mainly for the honey (gifts & for tea). I sold all my normal hives for some Flow Hives. It's a dream, I have fallen in love with beekeeping again. I love that each glass of honey has an incredible, distinct taste. (My favourite honey is the strong, pungent taste from forest trees). I am no longer eating honey-soup as I do not put my steaks and potatoes in a blender. I enjoy my foods like I enjoy my honey - each rich and distinct in its natural flavour. (French, please excuse my bad English)
Thanks for your description of why you like Flow hives! All the unique flavours add another interest to beekeeping as you say.
I was one of the early adopters of the flow hives back in 2014 when they ran their gofundme campaign. So I have an original with a “2015 founding supporter” window cover for my box. And like you mentioned they are cost prohibitive to get more of, I think the base ones at this point for an entire set up is close to or over $1k, which is sad, because I really do like them. I’ve since started getting the Chinese knockoff ones that have the 7 flow style frames and a box already all cut out for them and dipped in “bees wax”, but I’m fairly certain it’s paraffin wax, for around 125 bucks shipped. And I will get them 4 or 5 at a time which makes them cheaper, so for the price of a legit flow hive, you can literally get probdbly 7 or 8 completely hive set ups with the knock off flow frames and boxes and if you already have boxes and full set ups for 125-150 each you can have you’re own flow hive set up.
As for the quality of the knock offs, I can’t tell any real difference between the frames themselves and the original flow frames that I have from the first generation of them. What I can say is different is that the keys that come with the Chinese ones are noticeably cheaper feeling light and not as ridged, and the tubes don’t have that little outward notch that the flow tubes have, even thought the Chinese frames have the notch on the bottom to accept the one on the tube.
Not sure how they work with the ones provided I just use my flow ones.
Hope this helps some folks get into the flow hives one way or the other, I really do enjoy them. I’m a disabled vet who’s back and neck are complexly jacked up so not having to lift heavy supers and mess with the hassle of extracting and cleaning up after was a game changer for me. I’ve helped my bubbies do it the regular way and I just wouldn’t be able to do it without the flow hives.. not without a lot of help anyway.
The Camera person has a future working in the action film industry. Felt like I was watching a Steven Spielberg movie back before it got all CGI. Great information!
Thanks! I'll pass your comment on to our camera man Zoey. He's a film buff and will get a kick out of your Spielberg reference.
☺
@@zoeyross Ha! I guess you got the message Zoey!
I have a couple of Flow supers plus Langstroth hive/supers. I think they are great for a small-scale Beek that doesn't have a lot of room for extraction equipment. They are also a great way to introduce someone to beekeeping and It's fun to be able to extract specific honey. My apiary has expanded beyond the practical ($$) use of more flow-supers but I would still recommend having one or two.
Thanks for sharing your experiences Duncan.
Thanks for the demo. That convinced me I have no use for one. But for some people may be good.
That method is as crappy as whoever promotes it.
I have two flow hives and believe they are ideal for the backyard beekeeper. I thought you gave a very balanced analysis, especially with you noting that only the extraction changes and the beekeeping itself stays the same. For one or two hives, the extra cost of the hive is offset by saving on extraction equipment (and the space to store it!). Thank you.
Lots of misinformation here, sorry to say. Have had one flow hive for six years; remainder are Langs. Tolerances are cut very tight in the flow hive; VERY difficult to get the first frame out to free room up to check the central frames. Video would have you believe bees first fill and cap the central frames before moving laterally. My experience has been routinely finding most or all of the frames filling with nectar near-simultaneously. Drawing off honey from the central frames in order to avoid backfilling of the brood nest is, in my experience, a pipe dream, as is the idea that you can regularly harvest from the Flow box to make it “light” and enable ease of brood box examination. Perhaps my bees or my environment are different from that of Flow lovers, but every year I’ve found they are very slow to use the Flow frames; brood nest backfilling and swarm promotion are regular problems. Hauling off that nectar filled Flow box in order to do brood exams is no treat. The ease of harvest is a blessing, but (again, in my experience and in that of a few others I know), the difficulty of general hive management far exceeds this benefit. I would caution any new beekeeper to spend a few years learning the care of bees using standard hardware, and then, if still intrigued, to start with a single Flow Hive and see how it works for you.
Hi Paul
Thanks for your thoughts. Its good for viewers to see a mix of experiences in the comments. Catherine has been very happy with her Flow hives. I'm learning vicariously from her. We get so many requests for information about Flow hives that we thought we should help other learn a few tricks about managing them successfully.
@@UoGHoneyBeeResearchCentre So it means you got bees but you are not a true beekeeper, a beekeeper would never torture his bees not mistreat them. Teach people if you are a true beekeeper to love bees and treat them with respect no with lazy abusive methodology.
@@HERBALNATUMAN1 ..settle down. Maybe start your own channel if you're the "true beekeeper" in this discussion.
They do seem to have an enthusiastic following with some backyard beekeepers here in Australia.
I'm not one of them!
The moisture content of the honey is a few percent higher than you get from a Langstroth hive. My own personal view is that their honey does not taste as nice. Flow Hive owners will challenge that.
If a hive gets infected with American Foulbrood, our biosecurity law requires you either burn the hive or have it irradiated. AFB is easier and cheaper to deal with in a traditional wooden hive.
I'm staying with Langstroth hives.
Thanks for the video. You've shown another style of beekeeping.
Hi Ken
Thanks for your balanced comments. Moisture levels in the honey can be a problem so you need to be very sure it is ripe. In the fall, when we also have issues with high moisture in honey in traditional hive supers, we ripen the honey in our hot room. See our video on moisture in honey for details. I did this with the Flow super this fall. We tried to address this topic in the video but could have said more.
I won't thanks them for the video, because, I am against torturing bees this guys are very biased by no telling the true about why this method is devastating for the bees.
Greetings from USA.🇺🇸
Great to see these hives and what people think of them :)
This crap, and abusive to the bees, if you are a beekeeper treat your bees with love and respect. By saying it, you don't use abusive methods to collect your honey.
@@HERBALNATUMAN1 appreciate your in put with these hives. I am a beekeeper, don't use flow hives and treat my bees very well. But I do find it interesting to see what people think of these hives. All the best to you :)
I have used a double brood box on my flow hive.... just queen excluder under the super
The rear door is your shelf. The Flow comes with two clip on brackets that lock the shelf onto the back of the lower box.
Right! I forgot about reading that in the manual.. Catherine doesn't have the model with the shelf so she set ours up like hers at home. Thanks Neil.
I have three. My son was involved as part as their crowd funding. I’ve enjoyed them. I’m located in Idaho USA
I first gained the courage to become a bee keeper because of flow hive.... of course for the commercial bee keepers it isn't practical.... but for the first time keeper... it is fantastic... takes the fear out of it... I rarely use it now.... but I cut my teeth on the flow hive.... I probably would have never started bee keeping with out this paradigm changing bee keeping technology
Thanks for sharing your experiences Fion.
Wow guys, this was by far the best review and demonstration of the Flow Hive I have ever seen. Well done, and thank you. I personally own two of them, and absolutely love everything about them. And you're right, they are the most well-made hive on the market. I live in NYC, and have two deep boxes of 8 frame equipment then my flow super. So it's three deep box, and then the Flow Super comes off for the winter.
Hey, where are you guys locate? Thanks again. Grateful for this open minded and honest demonstration.
Thanks Brad. We took a bit of heat for even mentioning this hive! Good to hear of your success.
Brad! The best demonstration of the flow hive that you've ever seen? (';')( ';')... well... good to know... :)
@@FrederickDunn well one of the best. I enjoyed it.
What happens to the wax cappings?
Hi Julia
The bees somehow know their honey is gone and remove the cappings. They seem to reuse the wax.
Thank you for another very informative video I really enjoyed it and thought Catherine was awesome
I have just bought the flow hive the basic model to sit on top of my langstroth hives so am excited to see how it goes. Thank you
Make sure you take some wax/honeycomb and smear that into the flow super before you put it on. The Flow company makes a video on this. If not, it could take years before the bees figure out what to do with it. Once they figure it out, they keep going back to fill it up again.
Caveat for folks that live in humid environments: My capped honey is very often 20% moisture... and my last harvest was 22%. I *absolutely have to* put my supers in a drying room or I end up with fermentation. "Capped" does not mean "ready" in every environment.
You use this method because you are not a beekeeper, you are a honey eater meaning you don't care about bees, but about honey, that's it.
@@HERBALNATUMAN1 ... And your would solve the problem of uncured honey how?
I always thought capped meant "ready" regardless of the temperature or humidity. I think the bees know when the honey is ready (safe to store) and that is when they cap it. I only run in to trouble when I have frames that are not 100% capped. Most of my hives are traditional, but I have one FLOW super and the honey I get from it always has the least moisture content - partly also because the honey is not processed in an extractor which must also introduce moisture - but also because I only ever extract when all of the comb is capped.
@@CraigNakamotoConstruction Test some capped honey with a refractometer. It might be ready. In my humid environment, it probably isn't. One other reason the extractor works so well for me is it mixes the capped with the uncapped. After I dry my uncapped, it is super dry, which will bring down the moisture of the capped honey.
If the cells are capped, how are the bees able to store nectar in them again once the honey has been taken?
they realize the honey is gone, remove the caps and refill.
@@elund408 Thanks! I wonder if the bees are curious where their honey went 🙂
Hi Paul and Catherine, nice to see a demo of the flow hive. We do have some flow frames and love the idea of it, but our main concern have been inspections and the weight. A deep full of honey is pretty heavy to lift off for inspecting, and if I'm not mistaken, Catherine addresses this issue by inspecting after harvesting from flow frames so it is easy to lift. But the need for inspection isn't always going to coincide with when the frames can be harvested, especially as you mentioned that moisture content can be an issue even if the frames are fully capped. Especially with small hive beetles now in Ontario, we usually inspect every couple of weeks. Can Catherine comment on how often she inspects and how that matches up with the harvest schedule? I personally like the innovation of the Flow Hives, but I would be much more comfortable with medium supers rather than deeps in terms of lifting. Thank you.
Hi Selena
You make some good points, pro and con.
Catherine has mentioned that if she needs to inspect a Flow hive, and isn't harvesting honey first, she removes some Flow frames to make the box lighter.
Talked about the pros but not really covering the cons I didn’t think. I do some mentoring here in Oz and I have found them to be a bit of a handful for new beekeepers in regard to management. Not much hive inspection goes on with many. An amazing invention I agree but its a shame that people with no beekeeping experience are the main buyers. It doesn’t seem to matter how much info is given with the kit re colony management as a large percentage of people buying them are caught up in the videos showing the ease of honey extraction. The Australian Biosecurity Code of Practice runs a bit contrary to the info re bee management that Flo Hives work on.
Hi Debbie
Thanks for your comments. We tried to do a balanced presentation. Catherine is a big Flow hive fan and has figured a lot out with some help from the folks at Flow. I think she addressed the concerns you mention about the early information in their crowd funding campaign leading many to believe it was easy. It's not, and neither is learning to manage traditional hives.
I'm curious about your biosecurity comment. Can I ask for a paragraph reply?
For our short Canadian season I found that the bees didn’t produce nearly as much honey as a regular Langstroff hive.
Langstroth , reverend Langstroth.
I checked your videos and your skills are very poor, that might be the reason..
Many people believe so cold weather is not for bees, but in Slovenia they do beekeeping under the same amount of snow and bees live inside a hive and inside a house...
and
bikinis and beekeeping don't match, sorry sweetie !!!!
regards.
fred.
have you tried Bears & Bikinis?
That was a very informative video on this flow hive but I did not see or understand why you can not stack another flow box on top of the one you have on . When you removed the top inter cover it looked like there was room for the bees to come up just fine so can you explain why . I really enjoy your video’s. Thanks
That was not effing informative, they told you how to abuse bees, and be lazy. If you love bees, not just honey you know they need respect. Flow hives is abusive to the bees
Good question Kathy. I'll ask Catherine.
Thanks so much for posting it is really interesting even though there were bits i did not fully understand.. I am surprised the keeper had no protective clothing especially when taking the bees honey. I thought they would be seriously angry.
I bee keep in a bikini- they are moser gentle than you think!
Depends on there mood. Or you drop the flow by accident. I only wear a full suit when checking the brood.
@@BeesBikinis
Wow i guess you are a lot less fearful of bees than myself. I got stung as a kid and i think its deep in my psyche, bees scare me.
@@neilhoganwa
Thanks for your reply. I dont trust them at all but i know nothing about them. Which is why i find it all so interesting.
U of Guelph have mostly buckfast bees, which are insanely gentle. Getting stung by them would be very unusual.
Thanks for posting. It was interesting to see one in action. I've had many people ask me about them because they know I keep hives. My opinion hasn't changed. I pretty much stay with the tested and true methods and enjoy (most of the time) working my bees) Hot days in a bee suit or hot hives are still a trial for me but if it was easy every one would do it) I feel there's something to be said about knowing you bees and their temperament. Like horses or dogs, if you really love them or are interested in them you put in the time. And I make a lot of my equipment and bought a used extractor for a reasonable expense. I garden and there are numerous gardening. gadgets. Stay with the tried and true but be open. Beekeepers are forever searching for that "sweet spot" and some, I'm sure will go or check out this "spot". I'd say join a good club and learn from the success of those "doing it". The friends I've made and the commonality of traditional beekeepers has been a unique blessing for me personally. I've never regretted being introduced to keeping honey bees. It's been 10 years now and I have 10 plus 10 frame Langstroth
I'm glad you posted this though.
Thanks for sharing your interesting thoughts and experiences Timothy.
Wao very nice
Why aren't the bees stinging?
because they are happy bees...simple.
With the rain here, keeping the hive tipped back all the time my bottom boards would all rot out.
Super
I have 2 x 8 frame Flows with two broods each and the Flow frames on top. Your not restricted to just 1 brood box.
Good point Neil.
Oh, by the way, the flow team sells shelf brackets to make a shelf to hold you honey jars. super convenient. Also, bees SHOULD NOT be in the backside of the Flow Frame. You need to adjust the screw located on the top-rear side of each flow frame so tighten up that gap.
There is one mistake you made while extracting. You NEVER want to shut off a honey flow from a frame until it it completely finished. This can lead to great leakage inside the hive.
Good tips. Thanks Brad!
I've used both FLOW and standard Langstroth supers. I find the standard frames far more convenient. Overall I would say the FLOW hive would suit a hobbyist who intends to only have a small number of hives.
Also, (speaking from personal experience) FLOW hives are subject to lots of issues - it's not all plain sailing and delicious honey :)
Thanks Keith. Catherine is a big fan and worked with both Langstroth and Flow hives before committing to just Flow. She keeps two hives and has no intention to manage more so the system suits her. From what I've seen, the only concern I have is making sure the honey moisture content is low enough to prevent fermentation. On a bigger scale traditional hives are better for sure.
Interesting video but I'm still unconvinced it's for me. I can definitely see the pros and the biggest has to be the extraction straight into jars. It doesn't come fresher than that.
They aren't for everyone but we thought we should offer some tips on how to make them work well.
a pretty hive, but expensive and too much to go wrong in my opinion (Catherine loooked like she was struggling to open and close the frame). No mention of how to deal with crystallised honey
ممتاز
Go and have experience as a beekeeper, instead of buying a flow hive. The extraction is the easiest part of beekeeping. I've been beekeeping for 5 years and is the last thing in my bucket list. I worked for important beekeepers and learn the trade. Flow hive won't teach you to be a good beekeeper. Expensive, and no manual to be a beekeeper. The standard equipment are the best and you have money left in you budget to maybe put towards beekeeping school.
Hi Serge
Thanks for your thoughts. I think Flow hives are an option for some people. You still need learn to keep bees. That's what we emphasized in the video.
I know a bunch of people that were excited when this came out because they thought they'd never have to open the hive and just get honey...
Imagine? You wouldn’t really be a beekeeper then!
good job!
it doesn't need to be perfect.
but it works very good!
they need a different set of knowledge and skills.
everybody can keep doing traditional beekeeping. Im not going back...
Regards.
Fred.
This Flow Hive in my opinion has over complicated the traditional art of beekeeping. Why would you need a pair of pliers in case the plastic outlet was stuck? What if you loose the frame cracking rod? Why have to cover up to try to prevent robbing when "flowing"? What if you lose any parts (too many components in this hive)? Why have to worry about 2-3 degree levelling?
You would have to be a very very experienced beekeeper to stay on top of management of this hive.
I have experienced several 8 frame models here in New Zealand and the timber quality of the boxes are terrible - they may look pretty but not fit for purpose.
Hi Mark
Thanks for your input. These hives aren't for everyone. You need to learn how to use them and they aren't as simple as they may seem. As we mention in the video you still have to do all the normal hive management.
Levelling is so the honey drains well and the little details Catherine mentions are just helpful tips. Its not hard to keep track of the parts. Think of how many things you use in traditional extracting.
I agree that the early 8 frame hives were not well made. I had to get out a chisel and hand plane to assemble one for a friend. The new ones we demonstrate are laser cut a fit perfectly. The wood was flawless.
how much were you guys paid to do this video? flow hive is a REAL hard sell for me...
So you take the honey and the cappings are there telling bees they did a good job, only to return in derth and have nothing to fall back on. See way too many dead hives from the convenience
I’ve heard nothing but negative things about flow hives.
I’m trying to give it another chance on my channel. They are a super neat technology, but I’ll have to give it another go next year. I don’t think it’s worth it!
Same here, but we're UK based and it's just so cold here for it to actually flow right. Every beekeeper I know in our local association cannot stand then
@@rebeccajanegoddard yes I’m in Canada so similar opinions
I always watch this guy, never seen him doing anything creepy until now. He should explain that this is abusive to the bees, and non of those saying this is cool are beekeepers, but honey eaters, Beekeepers love bees they don't torture bees.
Its true, the flow hive comes with a optional iron maiden attachment for the queen to torture the bees that don’t meet their quota
I see no benefit in this hive.
Swarm prevention is not easier, you have less space, so that the bees want to swarm earlier. Your Honey could have to much Water. And renew the comb is neither easier.
Greetings from Germany
This is a crap advert. They don't work worth a damn unless the temp is up, all your reasons why you should get one are laughable. There is a reason you see them on the second hand market for the cheap.
I bought two for $300!