I agree Greg, these extra rules are getting out of hand. For rec flyers, the rules need to be easy to understand, provide safety for all and not to be so ornerous that no one will follow it. Rec flying should not be a strain on the brain!
None of this matters until the FAA starts enforcing their own crap. I reported a fellow 107 pilot for flying at night, over people and vehicles in class delta (at the same time). This pilot DID NOT have a night operations waiver, nor authorization to fly in class D - even in daylight). I showed the FAA his own posted video proving he did all this over and over for profit. The FAA took my complaint, that I made to my local FSDO office over the phone. The result was the pilot was told all the things he did wrong (things he already knew as a 107 pilot for 2+ years) and asked not to do it again. The video is still on his YT page promoting his company. No fine. Not even a nasty letter. The FAA is a joke and all these silly rules and suggestions are simply irrelevant. I would also like to mention that the huge corporation that hired this clown to fly his illegal missions was never even contacted. So again, the FAA is a joke.
The rules are already easy to follow. AMA put them out over 50 years ago. It's people who don't follow those simple rules that got us all these issues.
Greg you do a great job of explaining all the FAA brings forth and I agree with you 99.99 % of the time. But you do not have to say (don’t shoot the messenger) because all you do is greatly appreciated. Thank you
I'm a long time recreational pilot for RC planes and drones. I'm studying for Part 107 now and will abide by the rules. However, I'm a real fan of FPV flying and the freedom that I feel when I fly this way. From a public safety point of view, I totally understand having an observer and VLOS, but....I bought a drone that easily flies well farther than VLOS and I feel like I should be able to use it in a responsible manner...and I would! Really, who is going to have a FPV setup, goggles, and not use it? I see where all of this is going and I wouldn't want to be a governmental agency in charge of regulating air space and preventing terroristic attacks but I don't want my freedoms trampled on either. Such a quandary!
The whole "terrorist attack with a drone" is just an excuse to control and widen the door to harassment of uavs flyers whether they are hobbyists or commercial. It's much easier for a terrorist to just make and use mortars. One thing for sure, the last thing someone with bad intentions would do is "broadcast" their information via RID regardless of what they used. I've been building and flying helicopters for nearly 20 years for fun. My altitude is usually well under 100', I always fly VLOS and never fly more than 150' horizonal and always fly in front of where I am standing. I don't fly with people around, I don't want the distractions. There is absolutely no justification for any registration, remote ID or any FAA regulations.
@@YorktownUSA we chose a long time ago when Rosevelt was elected and the implementation of the administrative state began. Can we fix it? yeap, but first we need to fix the election system.
I agree, the extra rules are overly complex and overreaching, recreational is supposed to be for fun, if there are too many rules and regulations it’s no longer fun! They need to have someone go through and implement the K.I.S.S. principle on the entire document to simplify it to the absolute minimum, eliminate fluff, and throw out restrictions that already fall under another rule or are just unnecessary. If I can’t simplify the entirety of the recreational rules to a single 10pt font printed page front and back with the explanations for each rule then it’s too complex.
None of this matters until the FAA starts enforcing their own crap. I reported a fellow 107 pilot for flying at night, over people and vehicles in class delta (at the same time). This pilot DID NOT have a night operations waiver, nor authorization to fly in class D - even in daylight). I showed the FAA his own posted video proving he did all this over and over for profit. The FAA took my complaint, that I made to my local FSDO office over the phone. The result was the pilot was told all the things he did wrong (things he already knew as a 107 pilot for 2+ years) and asked not to do it again. The video is still on his YT page promoting his company. No fine. Not even a nasty letter. The FAA is a joke and all these silly rules and suggestions are simply irrelevant. I would also like to mention that the huge corporation that hired this clown to fly his illegal missions was never even contacted. So again, the FAA is a joke.
@@mickeymch876 At least complete the quote: "I reported a fellow 107 pilot for flying at night, over people and vehicles in class delta (at the same time). This pilot DID NOT have a night operations waiver, nor authorization to fly in class D - even in daylight)"
@@dougwalls1162 You really have nothing better to do than worry about what another drone pilot is doing? Old saying goes, worry about yourself and not what others are doing. Don't try and be so high and mighty
The whole CBO concept is an abdication of responsibility by the FAA. We will end up with a patchwork of regulations and anyone who travels will have to study different rules for different communities. The FAA should issue ONE set of requirements for ALL recreational pilots that apply nationwide.
I agree whole heartedly! I thought the point was to have consistent regs across the board so as to make compliance easier and confusion less likely. We are now going have a set of rules and regs that look more like the IRS tax code, impossible to know all the rules!
None of this matters until the FAA starts enforcing their own crap. I reported a fellow 107 pilot for flying at night, over people and vehicles in class delta (at the same time). This pilot DID NOT have a night operations waiver, nor authorization to fly in class D - even in daylight). I showed the FAA his own posted video proving he did all this over and over for profit. The FAA took my complaint, that I made to my local FSDO office over the phone. The result was the pilot was told all the things he did wrong (things he already knew as a 107 pilot for 2+ years) and asked not to do it again. The video is still on his YT page promoting his company. No fine. Not even a nasty letter. The FAA is a joke and all these silly rules and suggestions are simply irrelevant. I would also like to mention that the huge corporation that hired this clown to fly his illegal missions was never even contacted. So again, the FAA is a joke.
Yes. This ignorant draft opens the whole thing up for corruption and kickbacks. Who get the CBO and who doesn't will all be about who knows who and who writes the checks. There are all kinds of ways to funnel money into a government officials hands to get things to go your way.
"anyone who travels will have to study different rules for different communities" I disagree. Choose a CBO, such as the AMA, download the guidelines and let that be your guidelines as you travel. No mention is made that the CBO must be local to where you are. It need only be a Community (hobby fliers) not community (Las Vegas).
🤦🏻♂️ omg. This is becoming impossible to have fun with a drone. I bought an air 2s a month ago and I'm starting to have second thoughts about it and regret that idea. This is way too much.
this is a secondary reason why I chose to go for my part 107 pilot license- just to be covered in as many directions and in anticipation of updates like this
Yes, 3.4.3.8 of the Advisory Circular says the FAA wants CBO's to report "Loss of control of the UAS" "Recreational flyer errors" or "Power failures or loss of propulsion." People who fly FPV tend to have a lot of crashes--that's just part of learning. That's why they practice in safe environments away from people. The FAA does not require a damage report under Part 107 except for injury requiring hospital visit, loss or consciousness, or damage to property => $500 to repair or replace (Whichever is cheaper). The drone itself does not count as in this "damaged property" assessment (only if you crash into something valuable--like a glass window). So, if you crash a drone into the ground, water, or a concrete wall--there is nothing to report (just buy a new drone). Yet, the FAA wants CBO's to report even a low battery "power failure" under new guidelines? That would make recreational flying even more highly regulated than commercial drone operations. Ridiculous!
I Just ordered a drone last week,and haven't received it yet. I studied for the recreational Trust certificate and passed and will register my drone when it comes. Certainly I understand the need for safety in all aspects of drone flying. After learning more of the Community guidlines, especially some of the codes in the new advisory circular which was informative to keep new pilots like myself out of trouble, however when I receive my new drone, definitely thinking about sending it back. I thought this endeavor would be simple and fun for me and my family. I am learning that the FAA certainly can make it so complicated and taking away the joy and fun of flying a drone. Over reach ,I think so, my opinion. I know safety is paramount over everything and I agreed to that, but believe let's keep it simple for the recreational pilot.Thanks
Also thank you for your opinion at the end. Coming from the hobby and working to be 107, I appreciate you saying it should be simple. If you want people to follow rules make them easy to learn and follow. It the same thing I learned when writing policies for business, if you can make a policy 1 page you can guarantee almost anyone will be willing to read it. Otherwise they will skim it at best and sign it off without caring.
I fly slope gliders and have been jumping through these hoops just to keep having fun without legal issues. But I see some places where carve outs for non-powered fixed wing aircraft need to be addressed. It's nearly impossible to fly slope without a occasionally flying over people. Also speed limits could be an issue for people who practice Dynamic Soaring. I haven't accomplished this yet, but practitioners of this aspect have pushed their gliders over 550 mph. Experimentation is an important part of any hobby. And imposing speed limits on non-powered aircraft would have a chilling effect on RC aircraft development and diminish the scope of variety from the hobby. Informative video, glad I got to see it. Thanks!
Clear, concise explanation, presentation. And, your important opinion is always welcome, brother Greg! Although, I don't see the regs as too complex, we all should agree, it should NOT be associated with Part 107.
I agree. I continually see another rule here, and additional suggestion there...the common Joe is going to fly regardless. It's hard enough to keep up with all the amendments, suggestions, and changes to the rules. Does the FAA really think all the recreational flyers are keeping up with these? I would dare to say that most are NOT. As a 107, I stop and talk with people at parks who are flying, more-so to see what they have and ideally become jealous of what they have as appose to me. But having been a 107 for a few years now, I have yet to come in contact with someone who is following the rules.
None of this matters until the FAA starts enforcing their own crap. I reported a fellow 107 pilot for flying at night, over people and vehicles in class delta (at the same time). This pilot DID NOT have a night operations waiver, nor authorization to fly in class D - even in daylight). I showed the FAA his own posted video proving he did all this over and over for profit. The FAA took my complaint, that I made to my local FSDO office over the phone. The result was the pilot was told all the things he did wrong (things he already knew as a 107 pilot for 2+ years) and asked not to do it again. The video is still on his YT page promoting his company. No fine. Not even a nasty letter. The FAA is a joke and all these silly rules and suggestions are simply irrelevant. I would also like to mention that the huge corporation that hired this clown to fly his illegal missions was never even contacted. So again, the FAA is a joke.
@@dougwalls1162 Who cares????? Leave others alone. You posted this same comment multiple times on here. You remind me of someone who was bullied badly in school and now you're out for revenge at any chance you get.
I think you are absolutely correct. When the rules become too complex (as if they aren't complex already) the new flyers aren't going to read and learn, let alone FOLLOW, them.
I find it amusing that you can drive a 2 ton vehicle (car or truck) that you pass a test once when you are 16 and never have to do recurrent training of any kind and the DMV does not randomly publish rules without notifying the general public but yet the FAA can publish rules and it is the pilot s responsibility to find these rules and keep up with them. I think that if you have registered your drone recreational or otherwise they should notify you. Thanks for the updates and great vids as always.
Thanks Greg. Very true that if it’s too difficult, people will not follow it. The FAA like all government entities, create more and more restrictions in the name of safety. Flying RC aircraft has been a very safe hobby for many years and does not need all of these regulations.
Greg..... You were awesome all these years with all the info we need it to exist in FAA rules..... 👍 Thanks This is the end with drones for me..... I lived in constant fear of the f!? *! FAA...even in my own back yard.... Good grief 😖.... I'm done.....
You know, my eyes have glazed over. I have been a member of the Academy of Model Aeronautics since 1955. The number of incidents between model aircraft and full scale aircraft and/or humans or animals or property can literally be counted on one hand since the AMA began in the 1930’s. I spoke with Paul at the FAA drone zone and at the outcome of our conversation, he said, and I quote: “I hope these rules will encourage more people to get involved in model aviation.” I literally, spontaneously laughed out loud. I mean, like, REALLY???
Thank you for always providing such great information. I truly believe that safety is important, I’m one of those people who will do everything I can to insure I follow the appropriate rules and guidelines. But it does become very discouraging. I believe they are attempting to make things so difficult to discourage people or as a means of reducing the number of UAS in the airspace. Those who would follow will decide it’s to much trouble and others who do not care to follow the rules will possibly cause issues that create more unneeded regulations. There has to be balance and common a sense approach to the regulations and guidelines created. More UAS pilots need to be a part of the regulatory process. Just my thoughts. Thanks again for the great info. Hope to have my PT 107 soon thanks to your course.
Spot on Al Tone! I too believe that individualy we have a responsibility for the way we operate our uas vehicles, and unless we want to handover all the control of our intrest/hobby to a government entity(s), we can no longer stand on the sidelines and let it happen simply because it's easier to be a non-particapent than to put forth an effort to make a difference. Instead, these spectators will channel what energies they're willing to expend towards heckling the players, the officials, and the referees for how the game is being played. I lament the way government is trying to run herd on our sport, but instead of bitching and moaning about it, I'm doing something about it, as are you, and engaging in social discourse with as many people as I can get to listen, and encouraging others to do the same before the final legal verbiage has been has been set in stone by the various governmental entities. That's something I can do as an individual, but there is much more that we can do, and much of that can be accomplished by banding together as much as we can to make our voices heard, both as individuals and as a group acting in a cohesive and organized manner. The old adage of there being strength in numbers still remains a powerful tool! Along with cohesiveness is the need for consensus of message, and here where I may be somewhat less well received: with all the diversity among those of us that adore our sport, there needs to be a consensus of what is best for our sport, including how we can best govern ourselves as opposed to having to be dictated to by those who most likely won't have the same interest and passion that we share. Unfortunately it is true, just as it is with other groups that share common interests, there are those that feel they have the right to do whatever they please, however they please, and whenever they please, irregardless of the most unfortunate way it reflects so very poorly on the rest of us. As the old adage continues to hold true, It only takes a few bad aples to spoil the whole barrel, and it's very rare that I attend an outdoor event without myself and others being buzzed and harassed by some thoughtless, inconsiderate, asshole' person's drone, often during an evening concert. It's horrifying the way a crowd will cheer so enthusiastically when someone manages to bring one down and destroy it, yet instances such as this are why our drones are so despised, and why we have such a difficult path ahead of us to reverse the public's negative perception of our sport. But I will continue to try, by introducing and educating as many others as I can to the wonders and joys of our sport!
@@flybybaby8008 very well said! As with anything there is a part we can all play in this on many levels individually to be a stronger collective voice. Thanks
It is because people that I see flying their drones like a-holes that the good people are suffering. Make sure to take the TRUST test too. It is very easy. it took me all of 10 minutes to pass it.
None of this matters until the FAA starts enforcing their own crap. I reported a fellow 107 pilot for flying at night, over people and vehicles in class delta (at the same time). This pilot DID NOT have a night operations waiver, nor authorization to fly in class D - even in daylight). I showed the FAA his own posted video proving he did all this over and over for profit. The FAA took my complaint, that I made to my local FSDO office over the phone. The result was the pilot was told all the things he did wrong (things he already knew as a 107 pilot for 2+ years) and asked not to do it again. The video is still on his YT page promoting his company. No fine. Not even a nasty letter. The FAA is a joke and all these silly rules and suggestions are simply irrelevant. I would also like to mention that the huge corporation that hired this clown to fly his illegal missions was never even contacted. So again, the FAA is a joke.
@@tombusby2333 I know right? I should ignore all the rules and allow clowns to fly dangerously and illegally. Gotchya. And we know how you fly now don't we? Dumbass.
@@pbshooter100 I know I'm going to hell for reporting a commercial pilot flying recklessly. To be clear, I am 100% pro FAA making logical rules. I am also 100% pro FAA ENFORCING their own rules. I know, I know... I'm asking too much of the FAA. I would sure love to know all the levels of me being wrong. Go ahead, let's hear it Shooter! I reported a bad actor that was violating half a dozen rules. How was that wrong on so many levels you don't know where to start?
Thanks for uploading this video!! Time to spend a few days and break out the ancient technical report writing skills to whittle those sentences down to checklist format
Amazing how a beaurocracy can make something so simple like recreational flying into a monster. I am flying a DJI Mini 2 and only for maybe three weeks now and am learning a lot about it from TH-cam video’s. After finding your site and other informational sites I am beginning to think what did I get myself into. I took and passed the Trust test. I am glad there are sites like yours. Keep on educating us newbies.
They may diminish the numbers a bit via. regulation, but they will never "remove" recreational fliers. Many will simply choose to ignore the rules they don't agree with, under the assumption that they have little chance of being caught.
No rude comments from me. I very much appreciate being informed through your thoughtful and well-taken points of view. I have a commercial manned aviation license, but I am only a recreational drone pilot that is still learning the nuances of this sport.
Very good information thanks for breaking the CBO and 44809 I like it to be as simple as possible cause not everyone who flies will understand it same as those are supposed to enforce the rules they would like it to be simple as well
I agree with Greg's summary about Recreational + CBO Guidelines should not equal Part 107. But it seems that is the direction this is taking. My feeling is this will either motivate more Recreational flyers to go for Part 107, or they will simply decide to ignore the new Guidelines.
Too bad there's no one at the FAA that can read anything intelligently written. These rules are nothing more than a power grab for the large drone delivery companies.
The FAA seems interested in creating a hurdle high enough to discourage interest in STEM as well as aviation in general. Children are the future of aviation and it's incredibly unlikely that most will be willing / able to grasp the concepts of airspace and etc. Why couldn't the recreational have included a carve out of 200 ft elevation limit (for example)? I understand not flying your drone to the moon, but what are the chances you're interfering with general aviation at
Thank you, Greg! You are the best source of drone info on TH-cam! I fly drones as part of my job and it's awesome to a knowledgeable person like you to explain these confusing rules. Much appreciated!
Something the AMA pushed from the beginning was that they should be allowed to use their rules as being sufficient for RC flying (not just drones). It appears that this is, in essence, an attempt by the FAA to acquiesce to that position while still maintaining tighter control for pilots operating as professionals. I agree with Greg that this could get out hand. However, as he also points out there some good points to this proposal.
This can't be stopped, slowed down or changed in any meaningful way. It's a continuing process to phase out the ability for anyone to fly drones without a "Commercial" license. The hobby definitely has a shelf life. What will happen? People will just fly anyway. Fines? Probably, but not without some serious parallel lawsuits. I fly responsibly, and will continue to fly as long as I can. Many of these rules are common sense, except for those who want to fly irresponsibly anyway.
Good analysis and mark-up of the draft. Some initial thoughts: * Many/most rec pilots will ignore/not know of the cloud of rules suggested in this draft. * FPV pilots will be unable to fly around structures and remain in compliance. * Thus, many in the FPV community will perceive this as an open attack by the FAA on their activity. * Sadly, those in the FPC community who perceive a threat to the viability of doing FPV may be correct. The hobby could be rendered too regulated or risk burdened to continue. * It has been estimated there were 19,379 gun violence deaths in the US in 2020. Meanwhile, there no known deaths resulting from recreational UAS devices. Yet, the government chooses to impose a whole new regulatory cloud on recreational UAS devices. 🤡 Our tax dollars at work. 😒
@@faethe000 On a personal level, I have had the Part 107 cert for over two years now. Moving onto reality, an FAA effort to micro-regulate the vast majority of recreational PIC's will be, IMHO, as successful as its certifying the 737 MAX to fly. Further, the FPV community, which has demonstrated a cohesiveness and impact beyond its size (and of which I am not a part) is probably about to crank up a robust resistance campaign.
The RC aeronautics hobby has already been devastated by the FAA and the introduction of new technology. Just go on TH-cam, how may recreational pilots do you see posting their favorite flights with rc helicopters and rc planes? How many manufacturers and hobby shops can you still go to for parts? If you look you will probably see a few videos, most of those are the Alan Szabo or Curtis Youngblood types that are professionals selling a product. Now we have the FAA taking 3D helicopters, scale planes, 3D planes etc. that took hundreds of hours, thousand of dollars to build and years to learn the flying skills needed to fly and lumping them in with FPV and camera quads. If I'm going to fly one of my helicopters I'm not putting on remote ID or making changes so these a$$holes can harass me. Not going to happen. I fly safe because that's how I fly, I have insurance because things do happen but they are my choice. Fly near people? Flying a helicopter or plane near people is a distraction and a good way to crash. I also see these people that seem proud of themselves for turning other people in, proud to be a rat. The FAA bringing out the worst in the worst. RC planes and helicopters without cameras should have been left out from day one like we were promised in 2012. Congress and the FAA lied. Congress and the FAA are both complicit in destroying a hobby that many people loved and enjoyed for decades, some their entire lives and have spent tens of thousands of dollars over the years. Time for them to FO. I also fly quads with cameras but that is a different hobby. There was a point were I said "enough" with the unconstitutional and ridiculous gun laws in many states, in particular NJ. I still exercise my right to bear arms and I will not submit to government oversight and ignorance where RC aeronautics is concerned. The government passed that point the day they required "registration". Enough is enough.
Fathom this batman.... All the shit they are dumping on us to NOT be able to do is exactly what "Drone delivery" WILL be doing every freaking flight. Supposedly all this is for safe integration of the air space... they are all corrupt morons and exactly NONE of this is for safety. Its all about commercial dollars and lobbyist lining the politicians pockets. NOTHING more.
Very informative video. I really think all drones should come with a warning right on the box "FAA rules and guidelines must be observed for operation". Gone are the days you impulse buy one of these things and think you're just going to go launch it anywhere without penalty or fines. Safety First, but consumers should be warned these are not toys.
I like to see you've done a great job explain this and I agree I think they're making it too complicated for most of the regular people that want to start in this Hobby I just recently passed the trust test it was easy
Why doesn't the FAA just expand 44809 to include the regulations they want and leave the whole CBO variability and approval process out of it? It won't be long before everyone in the community figures out which CBO has the most lenient guidelines acceptable to the FAA for their approval. Everyone will then just say they are following the guidelines of XYZ Association. I am betting that any CBO that ignores ANY of the FAA's " recommendations" will find themselves unapproved. It's all getting too nuts. RECREATIONAL has to remain the operative word, otherwise, what's the point?
I am so glad that I ran into this video. I had no idea that all this was at hand, I just recently bought two drones and was hoping to be able to fly them with my grandkids... Now I'm starting to see that it is a lot for children and honestly I am afraid to fly my drone I think I just might send it back to the vendors...
Great video Greg. Totally agree with you. In their efforts to regulate the airspace, the FAA have removed much of the distinction between commercial and recreational flying with more and more regulation being introduced as time passes. FPV racing for example has a proven safety record and should not need to have strict rulings about the need for observers (recommendation would do). Safety regulations are being introduced into areas of the hobby where there have been few if any accidents. To my knowledge, no risk assessment has yet been made public for UAVs. "It's just a matter of time before we have major drone disasters" is not a good enough argument. (Meanwhile, yet another light plane crash takes a handful of lives) I fully support geo fencing and ads-b in brand name drones. Considering the masses generally buy this sort of equipment (with just the enthusiasts building 'fly anywhere' devices), the industry has, by and large, created its own safeguards. Why do we need more regulations including remote ID in the recreational sector? The FAA is very concerned at the number of restricted airspace breaches by drones. It has to be asked how many of these really were recreational UAVs (or UAVs at all). In the case of remote ID, would the perpetrators be stupid enough to have it enabled? I don't think so.
Make the guidelines, maybe rewrite 44809 to align them with Part 107; get rid of CBO component. Probably not legal anyways, but an FAA concession to well-meaning advocates or commercial transport drones companies (we don't need them in big cities).
There are books filled with disregarded and unknown laws. Like a person in polite company who just wont stop talking they eventually get tuned out. Enforcement of the rules (wherever they end up) will be interesting and telling. I think FPV requires more skill and practice than a typical cinema drone. As a pilot of both I feel much more situational awareness and control using FPV than flying VLOS. It’s the difference of driving an RC car or sitting in the drivers seat of a car. I think the restrictions on FPV are coming from a place of ignorance and lack of first hand experience. Sadly the more rules get piled on the more ignored and irrelevant the rules will become until enforcement shows up. UAV’s are still a relatively new thing. First time parents tend to make a lot of unnecessary & overprotective rules and then are burdened with enforcement and consequence efforts. Like always, Time will tell. :-). Thanks for the great informative video!
To me it's as though the rules aren't in line with the available technology. Flying VLOS is certainly a skill any drone pilot should have. However, the data available to the pilot (distance, height, FPV view via camera, map) provides much better situational awareness.
I completely agree, that while safety is a valid concern, the FAA should be careful not to take the fun right out of recreational flying. Like you mentioned, there could be resistance or rebellion against rigid rules, and there may be a number of people who decide flying is just not worth it, and walk away. Stay with guidelines, keep it simple, keep it easy to follow.
I think that the Government uses overly-broad language so that they can use it as a catch all later. I agree that they need to define *exactly* what the new "guidelines" are. I'm not an FPV flyer, so I really can't fathom what the guidelines will mean for that part of our flying but I certainly agree that micro managing will cause people to either ignore the guidelines or leave the hobby. Safety is important though, so I encourage that focus.
10 years ago it took an 8-hour class and a shooting test to get a concealed license in Texas. Now you just strap on and roll. Not loving it. Also, strap-on. Teehee. Sorry.
Georgia is one of the most permissive States for handgun licensees. The law requires that the applicant submit his/her fingerprints, under go criminal background checks via. the Georgia Bureau of Investigation and the Federal Bureau of investigation, and pay a fee that can approach $100, depending on your County. Although some claim that the FAA is overstepping its bounds with the regulation of recreational fliers, I can assure you that I spent a lot less time and money getting my USA registration number and passing the TRUST exam than I did for my firearms license.
Very informative video, Greg. Government at its finest by making simple things more complicated than it should. I used to work on military programs in contracts/proposals for many years. Whether it's Air Force, Navy, or Army programs they try to cover every angle in their proposal verbiage that you need a lawyer to try to understand what they actually need. When it's all said and done, we ended up what was a 200-page proposal to 800 pages. Sounds like the FAA is no different. LOL!
I feel an important topic to bring up is Shielded Operations. (Flying below tree line and in and out of coverage) The proposed guidelines effectively eliminate freestyle flying. But when done correctly, freestyle in or around buildings and trees is completely safe. There needs to be allocations for this type of flying. Otherwise we will lose a lot of members in our community.
*Outstanding job keeping everyone informed of this stuff* . Let's be totally honest...no 'Recreational' flyer is reading through any of this documentation. Most barely read the directions or instruction manuals before lauching a quad. As someone who has their part 107 (and as many others who will agree), it's tough keeping up with this stuff. And, let's be honest there is so much MORE TO COME! BVLOS (Beyond Visual Line of Sight) will be a whole other can of worms (after Remote ID is fully launched of course). Companies like Skyward give just a glimpse at what's to come.
They should just take drone out of stores at this point. Most adult, much less kids, are NOT going to be aware of or care about any of this, and could be facing THOUSANDS of dollars in fines. That might be the governments plan.
The FAA (or other federal government org) should at a minimum require that when selling a drone, the seller needs to provide resources regarding all applicable regulations. The seller (some random guy at Target) doesn’t need to explain the rules, just notify the buyer at the time of purchase.
I totally agree that recreational flyers just need some simple rules and that they will not read pages and pages of hard to understand legal descriptions. With age has become the realization that many, if not most, people will do the right thing if it is well defined and easy to follow. I understand Part 107 is more complicated and for those that want to do more, or want to use their drones for commercial purposes will read and follow the stricter guidelines in order to maintain their Part 107 status. Something I want to do so I can volunteer my drone at the small local fire/police departments. The FAA has never adhered to the K.I.S.S. principle in their rule making, in fact I believe they never back up and look at the rule as a whole or they would realize how unwieldy it is and that few will ever read or follow it because it is so huge. Thank you Greg for another head-up!
My observation about the CBO's additional restrictions is that it seems to cause contradiction and confusion with Part 107. The additional restrictions seem to be based on the "what if" mentality and not hard evidence of actual field experience. You can appreciate the common sense approach to flights over human populations and it's risks. So, that should be a concern of the CBO'S.
Bought cool affordable DJI drone from Amazon (yay), then starting watching videos like this on TH-cam about all the rules I have to learn now, then boxed up drone and sent back to Amazon. Screw all of this, buying a GOPRO instead and taping it to a kite.
It was the requirement to follow CBO guidelines that persuaded me to go ahead with Part 107 certification. As an example of a CBO, the AMA (Academy Of Model Aeronautics) has stringent requirements and simply does not, or at the time did not, envision citizens flying pretty much anywhere they pleased. You would have to fly at an AMA sanctioned model airfield for instance. AMA rules are certainly safety conscious and designed to prevent spectators from being injured by fast moving, fixed-wing model aircraft that sometimes can be rather large, 6 foot wingspans or more.
It's a pity that these regulations are required because people today have no commonsense nor respect for others . If everyone had that the regulations would not be required .
I bounced this off someone at the FAA I've developed a professional relationship with, and although this is not the official position of the FAA, he basically said the feeling over there is that "ideally they would like every remote pilot to be Part 107 certified". Which, seems to fit the their modus operandi with these labyrinths of regs and guidelines. But true to government form, they can't see past their own noses. You're going to push people away from even paying attention to anything that comes out of FAA, and the FAA doesn't have the time, resources, means to enforce these regs. I also wanted to throw in a personal standpoint on FPV. I'm a commercial sUAS pilot and former private pilot.. hell my dad was a former Flying Tigers 747 check captain. I understand and respect the importance of regulations and procedures. That being said, I'm also an avid recreational FPV pilot and I feel like that whole community is not getting the same representation that the commercial folks are. Personally, I don't see any harm in limiting them to 150' AGL, skip the VO, especially if they're equipped with goggles that can warn about approaching aircraft (like the DJI googles), and ditch VLOS since most of my flying is in abandoned buildings or canyons. Obviously this is shooting from the hip, but again, who is speaking on behalf of the FPV crowd. Cheers Greg if you're reading these!
The additional rules on AGL guidance are insane! The 400AGL is for positive VLOS control. LAANC/ALOFT and B4UFly outline very well the flight regulations and flight restrictions around the area. Also, you should be able to fly 400 ft above the PIC (Pilot in Command)
All of these regs are so obscure it makes me wonder if ignorance can go a long way when dealing with LEOs or FAA because it's also confusing to them too. Many of the FAA interactions I'm reading about are simply "hey we feel you're in violation, we're educating you about it, resolve the violation and we'll close the case". So imo as long as you're trying to fly responsibly and don't do something incredibly illegal/unsafe, your chances of large fines/jail time are low. With that said, the more information you can rattle off when being questioned the better which is why I've printed out a "Karen Card" as others have. It shows my registration status, license status and all the various regulations that I AM aware of and following (400ft max alg, giving way to aircraft, CBO guidelines I'm following etc.. ) so if I'm pressed on the spot I'll come across as someone who's educated/made an effort and not fumbling my words trying to remember everything, I think this would help in just getting a warning if there is some new law/reg I missed.
These mounting FAA rules are a response to something more than just about Safety. You’d think among all the national epidemics out there rUAS were the leading cause of fatal injuries. How would all these guidelines and regulations look if applied to motorist?🤔 Motor vehicles have certainly proven to be more dangerous than UAS. FAA should take notes from the STB. Control through regulation is what I see. Thanks Greg for the insight.
This may be a more generic question to everyone that flies for fun and the love of the hobby, but here it is: So a police officer pulls up too a known lication that has people flying. They park their car close enough to see someone with their head down (which mose of us do), while wearing a pair of FPV goggles. At that point, the officer's decide to get out and question that person, simply because they know that he's not physically talking to anyone and is simply having fun, yet they know that no one can be expected to pull off thier goggles, wait for their eyes to adjust to daylight, locate thier drone while still in the air, and mentally fix thier direction and orientation and take control of their drone in an instant. The police know that they can now question/ticket/ harass and possibly confiscate his/her equipment (a friend of mine had his drone confiscated by a local officer over a year ago before these rules came into play), because they'll know have new rules backing their decisions. Remember, police are directed to make a certain quota by months end, to generate extra revenue for the state.
My number 1 question is: who is going to enforce this? (My local police force has stated they will not, as they are not getting federal funding to enforce federal laws)
Curious about the status of the fpv VO suggestions. Most of these pilots, imo, won't follow this guidance. Many are short distance flyers where this becomes a burden to fly.
Thank you so much for making this video. Flying models were around prior to manned flight and has a safety record beyond reproach. There are also more model pilots than manned pilots in the US. So why is there no representation of any kind? This is so very very sad.
So what if all the potential CBO's (whoever they may be) organize together and refrain from applying as an FAA Recognized CBO? Then there would be no additional guidelines to follow because there's no FAA recognized CBOs.. Yeah, I know... that won't happen.
Excellent video! I would love to see your comments that you plan to send to the FAA. Perhaps even a form with your comments that I could put my name on and submit to the FAA as well. Thanks for the info!
We typically don't share comments on this kind of efforts because the FAA looks at duplicate comments as one. It's better if everyone is provided the information and formulate their comments in their own words.
@@PilotInstitute I totally understand and respect that. In that case perhaps a checklist of things we ought to include? Funny you mention that. After Janet Jackson's nipplegate incident the FCC received very few letters concerning the nip slip but "we assumed every letter represented a thousand people who were too afraid to write." Silly stuff but not unusual for Uncle Sam.
The concern I have, is when there are multiple CBOs in a area, what guidelines will apply if they differ? It seem like an over-reach and the inconsistency between differing CBO. Almost getting to the point to get the commercial license seems the way to go. The other potential issue, is if the CBO restrict areas where they can fly (i.e. their flight areas), and that essentially restricts where one could fly if the CBO defines areas (where they potentially could charge to use). Doesn't getting the commercial license (Part 107) bypass all this complexity, where the rules are specifically defined by the FAA and without the ambiguity of the recreational flyers?
I know this is old news... I appreciate your videos. I'm here to learn all I that I can about the rules and regulations. I recently received a pretty nice drone as a gift, and I have no prior experience. I must say that this is discouraging information. I'll continue educating myself, but at this time I don't believe I'll be sending the FAA a $5 registration fee for my new (>250g) drone or, by extension, be flying it at all. I haven't even unfolded the "arms" on it yet. I took it out of the box to have a peek one time, but that's where it's going to stay for the foreseeable future. I have access to about 40 acres of private land which is 20 miles from the nearest municipal airport. I thought if I ever did get a drone, it would be very simple to fly there for fun and stay safe and within the rules. Obviously, I was wrong. And I can't imagine what others restricted to more populated or high traffic areas go through to have fun with their drone. How is it even possible to claim a recreational exemption to fly for "fun" when you have to navigate so many requirements and regulations? ...that's not my idea of fun. After reading some comments here... if you don't like the current state of affairs then how do you fix it? ...The same way you fix everything else. If you don't like something, then don't participate in it. When enough people don't participate in a thing it tends to go away. As a general principle (in the United States), you vote at the ballot box, and you also vote with your energy. Every time you cast a ballot for something, you cast a ballot against something else. Choose wisely. Money, being one form of potential (stored) energy... Every time you influence a transfer of money (make a purchase, watch an ad, click on one, etc.), you encourage a particular behavior. The effects of those ballots and behaviors are real and are far reaching, both in distance and in time. The worst of which include things such as poverty, pollution, child labor, sex trafficking, slavery, genocide, and war, to name a few. In the United States you don't get your personal freedom from the government's power and certainly not from a bureaucracy, quite the opposite actually. On a side note... I've seen the increase in drone regulation contrasted with a (seemingly) lack of gun regulation. Ironically, any individuals you would entrust, and who would accept, the power and responsibility of your personal safety are the same who would enthusiastically tell you when, where and if you can fly.
Thanks for digging deep into these documents. I think the only once who will be upset are those who don’t like to follow rules and could destroy the hobby for the rest of us.
"could destroy the hobby for the rest of us"? Bhaaaa, bhaaaa. Some people who have been flying for 20 years with no regulation and do not need a mommy to hold their hand or have cry babies spy on them from the bushes. There is absolutely no justification for me to take any test or to add any electronic tracking or identifying device. Exactly how does adding rules and regulations and adding remote ID to a 3D helicopter make anyone any safer?
I agree with you about the rules should be simple. I'm a new drone flyer and if they make things so complecated people will, like you said, not want to read pages and pages of do's and don'ts. As a new flyer I plan on flying safely but having too many restricktions why would I want to fly. I do plan in the future to go for part 107 but at this point in time I'm just looking to have fun and get tyo know my drone better.
Ok this is definitely getting confusing. I am recreational pilot. I can fly at night… nope.. because AMA guidelines and ALL CBO guidelines say you can’t fly at night…. No wait, there are no CBO rules yet since they’re not certified…but wait I still have to fly according to some arbitrary current rule of existing CBO…but wait, it only says that in the Advisory Circular, and that is NOT considered regulation, just guidelines…but wait, we have to comply with guidelines? I give up… CAN I LEGALLY FLY AT NIGHT OR NOT!
In 2012 congress and the FAA swore they would not interfere with the RC aviation hobby. They lied. Next week's clarification of recreational flying will include Frisbees.
It still boils down to this Amazon FedEx UPS and several other commercial drone entities want the air space we flying and they’re the only ones allowed on the committee they even threw DJI off the committee. You can fly and ultra flight airplane that will fly 63 miles an hour you can fly small one man helicopter that does have turbine engine i.e. jet engines for those who don’t know the difference no license no medical no spotter no training. And when one of those comes out of the year it does a lot more damage than a half a pound have
Interesting point Jesse, just another that needs futher clarification. General aviation has a minimum operational attitude of 500ft above the ground, not above sea-level (except in the immediate areas of controlled airspace such as airports, densely populated areas, certain restricted government areas, etc). Thus the minimum agl clearace remains relatively constant (as agl values do have to take into account such pesky things as trees, boulders, small buildings and such), where as altitude above sea-level is, for our intent and purpose, based upon a fixed elevation, that being zero. So elevation clearances remain limited to 400ft maximum agl, while general aviation has a 500ft minimum agl, which leaves us with a constant 100ft buffer zone no matter where we are standing. This is why nearly all developed areas with multiple multi-storied buildings fall under the classification of controlled airspace. The one thing I seriously ask of my fellow modelers is not to give up because some changing rules and regulations. By simply giving up this activity/sport/hobby we so enjoy without fighting to retain it, we are simply giving the Government another victory by simply rolling over without offering any resistance, the exact complaint I'm hearing from most of you. It may not be an easy task, but I ask you; what is worth having, including our drones as well as our very freedoms and democracy, are not worth fighting for? Unchecked Government WILL GLADLY take anything we are willing to simply give them, and unchecked will continue to do so with impunity!!!
None of this matters until the FAA starts enforcing their own crap. I reported a fellow 107 pilot for flying at night, over people and vehicles in class delta (at the same time). This pilot DID NOT have a night operations waiver, nor authorization to fly in class D - even in daylight). I showed the FAA his own posted video proving he did all this over and over for profit. The FAA took my complaint, that I made to my local FSDO office over the phone. The result was the pilot was told all the things he did wrong (things he already knew as a 107 pilot for 2+ years) and asked not to do it again. The video is still on his YT page promoting his company. No fine. Not even a nasty letter. The FAA is a joke and all these silly rules and suggestions are simply irrelevant. I would also like to mention that the huge corporation that hired this clown to fly his illegal missions was never even contacted. So again, the FAA is a joke.
@ThatOneStopSign None of this matters until the FAA starts enforcing their own crap. I reported a fellow 107 pilot for flying at night, over people and vehicles in class delta (at the same time). This pilot DID NOT have a night operations waiver, nor authorization to fly in class D - even in daylight). I showed the FAA his own posted video proving he did all this over and over for profit. The FAA took my complaint, that I made to my local FSDO office over the phone. The result was the pilot was told all the things he did wrong (things he already knew as a 107 pilot for 2+ years) and asked not to do it again. The video is still on his YT page promoting his company. No fine. Not even a nasty letter. The FAA is a joke and all these silly rules and suggestions are simply irrelevant. I would also like to mention that the huge corporation that hired this clown to fly his illegal missions was never even contacted. So again, the FAA is a joke.
I also add that you should call your congressman, and point out that these _"guidances"_ do not necessarily comport with the spirit or intent of sub-part 44809, and concisely explain why. This certainly is beginning to seem like "Executive Overreach" of the legislative mandate. I am fairly new to the RC hobby, but already have a substantial investment of time and money, based on the concept of limited regulation of the hobby. I have been willingly compliant to this point, but going forward seems to be a whole new ballgame. It almost appears they are trying to regulate the hobby out of existence., by turning CBO's into "state actors". The whole idea of CBO's was that the Community was better suited to guide the hobby than the FAA, yet the FAA presumes to offer this velvet covered fist to the CBO's?
I'm a common sense type operator, in that I don't take too many chances while flying, don't like to fly over homes or people. Hell, I even have my altitude limit set to 300 ft. I want to get my Part 107 license but I want to see how much regulations will take away our abilities to fly and would it even be worth it I have just over a $1000 investment in my drone system and it's not going to gather dust. If it gets too bad, I'll ignore most of those guidelines. Like speeding, cops can't be everywhere, and it's a chance a lot of people take. I'm just being honest. I understand about safety and all of that, but at some point, I'm not training to fly a 747. If the government really want to destroy the hobby, they should institute a buy back program.
Thanks Greg! It sounds like Community Based Organizations (CBO) will be adding much more restrictions in the areas they take responsibility for. I’m thinking that Cities and Municipalities or other Government agencies (BLM, State Land Department’s) could also be included in approved CBO’s? Regardless - People who don’t follow rules won’t care , read or follow these rules anyway.
I agree that the rules for recreational flying are getting out of hand. But at the same time I think there needs to be a little more education than the current TRUST testing since a large majority of rec flyers that bought a drone for fun have no idea that there are FAA requirements such as SUAS registration, TRUST, or there are even any rules to begin with. Whether it be a free short in-person session from a CBO or JHA or a refined TRUST process combined with SUAS registration that provides more training instead of just being a 5 minute click through, guaranteed pass "test". And how all of these proposed changes, if adopted, will be incorporated when Remote ID is rolled out is going to be a new ball of wax.
The requirement for additional training is indeed necessary. That's actually why we created our free course called Recreational Flying Made Easy. We cover all the basic things you should do, and we made it free! pilotinstitute.com/course/recreational-flying-made-easy/
They have already lost this flyer of 47 years. Going to see if my radios are worth anything as reclaimable scrap electronics, recycle the batteries, have a little (relative term) BBQ starter with the balsa and spruce planes. This death by a thousand cuts from the unelected FAA "officials" (who are waiting on the high priced consulting jobs to come along from the commercial side) is more then irritating enough to say good bye to a hobby I enjoyed for decades. No more money to the FAA for registration, no more money to AMA for insurance and model news. If this sounds bitter, it is. The quickest way to ruin something, it seems, is to have a government agency make up rules for something that they do not do themselves. They have no clue, a lot of the stuff they advocate puts this out of the reach of most hobby flyers, or has not been invented yet, just to be on the safe side!. Thanks for the info.
I am surprised by the lack of lobbing the FAA by drone companies. If not for relaxation of rules then at least for no further regulation. These new rules will deter more and more customers from buying their products, especially FPV drones.
As a part 107 pilot who flies for a news organization I'm actually worried about the creation of these CBOs and them interfering with my ability to do my job because local law enforcement doesn't understand the difference between a CBO and Part 107 restrictions. For example I could easily see a CBO being formed in a local municipality that puts in an additional stipulation that you can't film someone with a drone without their consent (I've had police officers attempt to ground me based on their incorrect assumption this was the case already) this could lead to problems where I'm covering a breaking news event under part 107 and get grounded by local police who assume the CBO regulation also applies to 107 flights even though my ability to film in these situations is expressly permitted.
I'm still trying to get access to a printer to register etc. Waiting years for all this rule regulations to settle and quit injecting that recreational use is criminal and must be regulated. When you want to go to a public park designated remote control area to learn to fly and have fun and the coo coo starts twisting your desires into some unforseen crazy criminal behavior like illegal contraband and recklessness. 🤯
First. Curious of the scope of the CBO coverage. Hope I'm not missing some thing someone else brought up. Are we talking areas encompassing a city, a county, the state? Whats going to prevent people outside the recreational drone group registering and take over a CBO to forward rules to prevent drone flying. If I fly out at the farm, am I going to have to follow some CBO's rules?
CBOs will likely be nationwide. Think about them as a national club, kinda like AMA is right now. You will eventually decide on a CBO that represents your value, the type of flying you do, and that has guidelines you can live with. They will be rules that you follow in addition to 44809. I foresee we will have half a dozen to a dozen CBO to choose from, some will specialize in quadcopters, some in FPV, some in fixed wing RC, etc...
@@PilotInstitute That kind of defeats the "Community" in CBO. I was under the impression these were going to be local club like entities. How are you ever going to be able to enforce national scope rules. You might as well put every one under part 107 then.
@@PilotInstitute So, maybe there will be one CBO whose guidelines say "fly safely" and the whole country can choose that as their CBO? Does the FAA have to approve the guidelines? Does the FAA have to approve changes to the guidelines after they are approved once? I'm hoping for a loophole here...
@@paulctx Yes the FAA has to approve the guidelines. Whether or not they will be clear as to why a CBO was rejected or not is a different story. We will see if not having ALL of the guidelines from the AC is ground for not getting approved.
VLOS. Following a grey red or green spot in the sky during the day without a strobe is damn near impossible. As soon as you take your eye off of it, it goes into stealth mode. Someone needs to come up with a delay switch for strobes. Mine hurts my eyes when I turn it on.
Future CBOs that will spring up as a response to this "opportunity" to boss another citizen will result in local rules that are totally arbitrary and capricious.
In the FAA guidelines for CBO. A number of them are overly broad and ambiguous, for a reason. Until they, the FAA, come up with more detailed guidelines, they at least have something they can go to court with. CYA until further notice. I expect the ambiguous guidelines to be more fully defined in time. At least I hope so. Some of them are so under defined that neither side of a lawsuit would have a leg to stand on if using them as an argument.
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I agree Greg, these extra rules are getting out of hand. For rec flyers, the rules need to be easy to understand, provide safety for all and not to be so ornerous that no one will follow it. Rec flying should not be a strain on the brain!
I agreed
None of this matters until the FAA starts enforcing their own crap. I reported a fellow 107 pilot for flying at night, over people and vehicles in class delta (at the same time). This pilot DID NOT have a night operations waiver, nor authorization to fly in class D - even in daylight). I showed the FAA his own posted video proving he did all this over and over for profit. The FAA took my complaint, that I made to my local FSDO office over the phone. The result was the pilot was told all the things he did wrong (things he already knew as a 107 pilot for 2+ years) and asked not to do it again. The video is still on his YT page promoting his company. No fine. Not even a nasty letter. The FAA is a joke and all these silly rules and suggestions are simply irrelevant. I would also like to mention that the huge corporation that hired this clown to fly his illegal missions was never even contacted. So again, the FAA is a joke.
@@dougwalls1162 Rattus.
The rules are already easy to follow. AMA put them out over 50 years ago. It's people who don't follow those simple rules that got us all these issues.
@@glennroberts461 Amen Brother! I've been an AMA Member since 1987!
Greg you do a great job of explaining all the FAA brings forth and I agree with you 99.99 % of the time. But you do not have to say (don’t shoot the messenger) because all you do is greatly appreciated. Thank you
I think he said it kind of "tongue in cheek" and/or with a sense of humor, but I do agree, most everyone knows these are not his rules/regs.
What if you don't want to be in a CBO ?
@@felixruiz2838 Go back and listen to it again. He plainly says you do NOT have to belong to a CBO; you just have to follow their regulations.
@@felixruiz2838 As far as I understood, you don't, you only have to choose one to follow their guide lines. It's not mandatory already.
I'm a long time recreational pilot for RC planes and drones. I'm studying for Part 107 now and will abide by the rules. However, I'm a real fan of FPV flying and the freedom that I feel when I fly this way. From a public safety point of view, I totally understand having an observer and VLOS, but....I bought a drone that easily flies well farther than VLOS and I feel like I should be able to use it in a responsible manner...and I would! Really, who is going to have a FPV setup, goggles, and not use it? I see where all of this is going and I wouldn't want to be a governmental agency in charge of regulating air space and preventing terroristic attacks but I don't want my freedoms trampled on either. Such a quandary!
The whole "terrorist attack with a drone" is just an excuse to control and widen the door to harassment of uavs flyers whether they are hobbyists or commercial. It's much easier for a terrorist to just make and use mortars. One thing for sure, the last thing someone with bad intentions would do is "broadcast" their information via RID regardless of what they used.
I've been building and flying helicopters for nearly 20 years for fun. My altitude is usually well under 100', I always fly VLOS and never fly more than 150' horizonal and always fly in front of where I am standing. I don't fly with people around, I don't want the distractions. There is absolutely no justification for any registration, remote ID or any FAA regulations.
This is a direct result of having an Administrative State as a form of government….
You have to choose. Freedom or slavery. Pick one.
@@YorktownUSA we chose a long time ago when Rosevelt was elected and the implementation of the administrative state began. Can we fix it? yeap, but first we need to fix the election system.
I agree, the extra rules are overly complex and overreaching, recreational is supposed to be for fun, if there are too many rules and regulations it’s no longer fun! They need to have someone go through and implement the K.I.S.S. principle on the entire document to simplify it to the absolute minimum, eliminate fluff, and throw out restrictions that already fall under another rule or are just unnecessary. If I can’t simplify the entirety of the recreational rules to a single 10pt font printed page front and back with the explanations for each rule then it’s too complex.
I ageee! Keep it Simple Stupid
None of this matters until the FAA starts enforcing their own crap. I reported a fellow 107 pilot for flying at night, over people and vehicles in class delta (at the same time). This pilot DID NOT have a night operations waiver, nor authorization to fly in class D - even in daylight). I showed the FAA his own posted video proving he did all this over and over for profit. The FAA took my complaint, that I made to my local FSDO office over the phone. The result was the pilot was told all the things he did wrong (things he already knew as a 107 pilot for 2+ years) and asked not to do it again. The video is still on his YT page promoting his company. No fine. Not even a nasty letter. The FAA is a joke and all these silly rules and suggestions are simply irrelevant. I would also like to mention that the huge corporation that hired this clown to fly his illegal missions was never even contacted. So again, the FAA is a joke.
@@dougwalls1162 "I reported a fellow 107 pilot for flying at night". Rattus.
@@mickeymch876 At least complete the quote: "I reported a fellow 107 pilot for flying at night, over people and vehicles in class delta (at the same time). This pilot DID NOT have a night operations waiver, nor authorization to fly in class D - even in daylight)"
@@dougwalls1162 You really have nothing better to do than worry about what another drone pilot is doing? Old saying goes, worry about yourself and not what others are doing. Don't try and be so high and mighty
The whole CBO concept is an abdication of responsibility by the FAA. We will end up with a patchwork of regulations and anyone who travels will have to study different rules for different communities. The FAA should issue ONE set of requirements for ALL recreational pilots that apply nationwide.
I agree whole heartedly! I thought the point was to have consistent regs across the board so as to make compliance easier and confusion less likely. We are now going have a set of rules and regs that look more like the IRS tax code, impossible to know all the rules!
None of this matters until the FAA starts enforcing their own crap. I reported a fellow 107 pilot for flying at night, over people and vehicles in class delta (at the same time). This pilot DID NOT have a night operations waiver, nor authorization to fly in class D - even in daylight). I showed the FAA his own posted video proving he did all this over and over for profit. The FAA took my complaint, that I made to my local FSDO office over the phone. The result was the pilot was told all the things he did wrong (things he already knew as a 107 pilot for 2+ years) and asked not to do it again. The video is still on his YT page promoting his company. No fine. Not even a nasty letter. The FAA is a joke and all these silly rules and suggestions are simply irrelevant. I would also like to mention that the huge corporation that hired this clown to fly his illegal missions was never even contacted. So again, the FAA is a joke.
Yes. This ignorant draft opens the whole thing up for corruption and kickbacks. Who get the CBO and who doesn't will all be about who knows who and who writes the checks. There are all kinds of ways to funnel money into a government officials hands to get things to go your way.
"anyone who travels will have to study different rules for different communities"
I disagree. Choose a CBO, such as the AMA, download the guidelines and let that be your guidelines as you travel. No mention is made that the CBO must be local to where you are. It need only be a Community (hobby fliers) not community (Las Vegas).
🤦🏻♂️ omg.
This is becoming impossible to have fun with a drone.
I bought an air 2s a month ago and I'm starting to have second thoughts about it and regret that idea.
This is way too much.
Thank you for posting this important information Greg. I hope people are smart enough to speak up and make a difference now while they still can.
This looks like bringing Part 107 in the back door to recreational pilots.
this is a secondary reason why I chose to go for my part 107 pilot license- just to be covered in as many directions and in anticipation of updates like this
Yes, 3.4.3.8 of the Advisory Circular says the FAA wants CBO's to report "Loss of control of the UAS" "Recreational flyer errors" or "Power failures or loss of propulsion." People who fly FPV tend to have a lot of crashes--that's just part of learning. That's why they practice in safe environments away from people. The FAA does not require a damage report under Part 107 except for injury requiring hospital visit, loss or consciousness, or damage to property => $500 to repair or replace (Whichever is cheaper). The drone itself does not count as in this "damaged property" assessment (only if you crash into something valuable--like a glass window). So, if you crash a drone into the ground, water, or a concrete wall--there is nothing to report (just buy a new drone). Yet, the FAA wants CBO's to report even a low battery "power failure" under new guidelines? That would make recreational flying even more highly regulated than commercial drone operations. Ridiculous!
@@tomme6x3 rather than complying to ridiculous regulations, just go out and enjoy the hobby of RC devices, on the ground or in the air.
I Just ordered a drone last week,and haven't received it yet. I studied for the recreational Trust certificate and passed and will register my drone when it comes. Certainly I understand the need for safety in all aspects of drone flying. After learning more of the Community guidlines, especially some of the codes in the new advisory circular which was informative to keep new pilots like myself out of trouble, however when I receive my new drone, definitely thinking about sending it back. I thought this endeavor would be simple and fun for me and my family. I am learning that the FAA certainly can make it so complicated and taking away the joy and fun of flying a drone. Over reach ,I think so, my opinion. I know safety is paramount over everything and I agreed to that, but believe let's keep it simple for the recreational pilot.Thanks
Thank You for keeping us informed. Ohh btw. Yesterday I seen a Cardinal flying dangerously over people. Who do I report it to. 🧐😁😆🤪
Good one .
Lmao clever
The Pope! 😃
@@SolarReturn1966 😂
Also thank you for your opinion at the end. Coming from the hobby and working to be 107, I appreciate you saying it should be simple. If you want people to follow rules make them easy to learn and follow. It the same thing I learned when writing policies for business, if you can make a policy 1 page you can guarantee almost anyone will be willing to read it. Otherwise they will skim it at best and sign it off without caring.
I fly slope gliders and have been jumping through these hoops just to keep having fun without legal issues. But I see some places where carve outs for non-powered fixed wing aircraft need to be addressed. It's nearly impossible to fly slope without a occasionally flying over people. Also speed limits could be an issue for people who practice Dynamic Soaring. I haven't accomplished this yet, but practitioners of this aspect have pushed their gliders over 550 mph. Experimentation is an important part of any hobby. And imposing speed limits on non-powered aircraft would have a chilling effect on RC aircraft development and diminish the scope of variety from the hobby. Informative video, glad I got to see it. Thanks!
Clear, concise explanation, presentation. And, your important opinion is always welcome, brother Greg!
Although, I don't see the regs as too complex, we all should agree, it should NOT be associated with Part 107.
I agree. I continually see another rule here, and additional suggestion there...the common Joe is going to fly regardless. It's hard enough to keep up with all the amendments, suggestions, and changes to the rules. Does the FAA really think all the recreational flyers are keeping up with these? I would dare to say that most are NOT. As a 107, I stop and talk with people at parks who are flying, more-so to see what they have and ideally become jealous of what they have as appose to me. But having been a 107 for a few years now, I have yet to come in contact with someone who is following the rules.
None of this matters until the FAA starts enforcing their own crap. I reported a fellow 107 pilot for flying at night, over people and vehicles in class delta (at the same time). This pilot DID NOT have a night operations waiver, nor authorization to fly in class D - even in daylight). I showed the FAA his own posted video proving he did all this over and over for profit. The FAA took my complaint, that I made to my local FSDO office over the phone. The result was the pilot was told all the things he did wrong (things he already knew as a 107 pilot for 2+ years) and asked not to do it again. The video is still on his YT page promoting his company. No fine. Not even a nasty letter. The FAA is a joke and all these silly rules and suggestions are simply irrelevant. I would also like to mention that the huge corporation that hired this clown to fly his illegal missions was never even contacted. So again, the FAA is a joke.
Quit bothering others do your own thing and leave others alone.
@@dougwalls1162 Which proved MASS non complaince works better than a silly rule.
@@dougwalls1162 Who cares????? Leave others alone. You posted this same comment multiple times on here. You remind me of someone who was bullied badly in school and now you're out for revenge at any chance you get.
I think you are absolutely correct. When the rules become too complex (as if they aren't complex already) the new flyers aren't going to read and learn, let alone FOLLOW, them.
I find it amusing that you can drive a 2 ton vehicle (car or truck) that you pass a test once when you are 16 and never have to do recurrent training of any kind and the DMV does not randomly publish rules without notifying the general public but yet the FAA can publish rules and it is the pilot s responsibility to find these rules and keep up with them. I think that if you have registered your drone recreational or otherwise they should notify you. Thanks for the updates and great vids as always.
Thanks Greg. Very true that if it’s too difficult, people will not follow it. The FAA like all government entities, create more and more restrictions in the name of safety. Flying RC aircraft has been a very safe hobby for many years and does not need all of these regulations.
Greg..... You were awesome all these years with all the info we need it to exist in FAA rules..... 👍 Thanks
This is the end with drones for me..... I lived in constant fear of the f!? *! FAA...even in my own back yard.... Good grief 😖.... I'm done.....
You know, my eyes have glazed over. I have been a member of the Academy of Model Aeronautics since 1955. The number of incidents between model aircraft and full scale aircraft and/or humans or animals or property can literally be counted on one hand since the AMA began in the 1930’s. I spoke with Paul at the FAA drone zone and at the outcome of our conversation, he said, and I quote: “I hope these rules will encourage more people to get involved in model aviation.” I literally, spontaneously laughed out loud. I mean, like, REALLY???
Thank you for always providing such great information. I truly believe that safety is important, I’m one of those people who will do everything I can to insure I follow the appropriate rules and guidelines. But it does become very discouraging. I believe they are attempting to make things so difficult to discourage people or as a means of reducing the number of UAS in the airspace. Those who would follow will decide it’s to much trouble and others who do not care to follow the rules will possibly cause issues that create more unneeded regulations. There has to be balance and common a sense approach to the regulations and guidelines created. More UAS pilots need to be a part of the regulatory process. Just my thoughts. Thanks again for the great info. Hope to have my PT 107 soon thanks to your course.
Spot on Al Tone! I too believe that individualy we have a responsibility for the way we operate our uas vehicles, and unless we want to handover all the control of our intrest/hobby to a government entity(s), we can no longer stand on the sidelines and let it happen simply because it's easier to be a non-particapent than to put forth an effort to make a difference. Instead, these spectators will channel what energies they're willing to expend towards heckling the players, the officials, and the referees for how the game is being played.
I lament the way government is trying to run herd on our sport, but instead of bitching and moaning about it, I'm doing something about it, as are you, and engaging in social discourse with as many people as I can get to listen, and encouraging others to do the same before the final legal verbiage has been has been set in stone by the various governmental entities. That's something I can do as an individual, but there is much more that we can do, and much of that can be accomplished by banding together as much as we can to make our voices heard, both as individuals and as a group acting in a cohesive and organized manner. The old adage of there being strength in numbers still remains a powerful tool!
Along with cohesiveness is the need for consensus of message, and here where I may be somewhat less well received: with all the diversity among those of us that adore our sport, there needs to be a consensus of what is best for our sport, including how we can best govern ourselves as opposed to having to be dictated to by those who most likely won't have the same interest and passion that we share. Unfortunately it is true, just as it is with other groups that share common interests, there are those that feel they have the right to do whatever they please, however they please, and whenever they please, irregardless of the most unfortunate way it reflects so very poorly on the rest of us. As the old adage continues to hold true, It only takes a few bad aples to spoil the whole barrel, and it's very rare that I attend an outdoor event without myself and others being buzzed and harassed by some thoughtless, inconsiderate, asshole' person's drone, often during an evening concert. It's horrifying the way a crowd will cheer so enthusiastically when someone manages to bring one down and destroy it, yet instances such as this are why our drones are so despised, and why we have such a difficult path ahead of us to reverse the public's negative perception of our sport.
But I will continue to try, by introducing and educating as many others as I can to the wonders and joys of our sport!
@@flybybaby8008 very well said! As with anything there is a part we can all play in this on many levels individually to be a stronger collective voice. Thanks
It is because people that I see flying their drones like a-holes that the good people are suffering. Make sure to take the TRUST test too. It is very easy. it took me all of 10 minutes to pass it.
None of this matters until the FAA starts enforcing their own crap. I reported a fellow 107 pilot for flying at night, over people and vehicles in class delta (at the same time). This pilot DID NOT have a night operations waiver, nor authorization to fly in class D - even in daylight). I showed the FAA his own posted video proving he did all this over and over for profit. The FAA took my complaint, that I made to my local FSDO office over the phone. The result was the pilot was told all the things he did wrong (things he already knew as a 107 pilot for 2+ years) and asked not to do it again. The video is still on his YT page promoting his company. No fine. Not even a nasty letter. The FAA is a joke and all these silly rules and suggestions are simply irrelevant. I would also like to mention that the huge corporation that hired this clown to fly his illegal missions was never even contacted. So again, the FAA is a joke.
@@dougwalls1162 you should be ashamed making claims against other drone pilots
@@tombusby2333 I know right? I should ignore all the rules and allow clowns to fly dangerously and illegally. Gotchya. And we know how you fly now don't we? Dumbass.
So what constitutes flying like a holes, are you talking bando bashes or what exactly?
@@pbshooter100 I know I'm going to hell for reporting a commercial pilot flying recklessly. To be clear, I am 100% pro FAA making logical rules. I am also 100% pro FAA ENFORCING their own rules. I know, I know... I'm asking too much of the FAA. I would sure love to know all the levels of me being wrong. Go ahead, let's hear it Shooter! I reported a bad actor that was violating half a dozen rules. How was that wrong on so many levels you don't know where to start?
Thanks for uploading this video!! Time to spend a few days and break out the ancient technical report writing skills to whittle those sentences down to checklist format
Amazing how a beaurocracy can make something so simple like recreational flying into a monster. I am flying a DJI Mini 2 and only for maybe three weeks now and am learning a lot about it from TH-cam video’s. After finding your site and other informational sites I am beginning to think what did I get myself into. I took and passed the Trust test. I am glad there are sites like yours. Keep on educating us newbies.
It has been my belief the FAA is trying to remove recreational fliers by attrition.
They may diminish the numbers a bit via. regulation, but they will never "remove" recreational fliers. Many will simply choose to ignore the rules they don't agree with, under the assumption that they have little chance of being caught.
I agree.
No rude comments from me. I very much appreciate being informed through your thoughtful and well-taken points of view. I have a commercial manned aviation license, but I am only a recreational drone pilot that is still learning the nuances of this sport.
Very good information thanks for breaking the CBO and 44809 I like it to be as simple as possible cause not everyone who flies will understand it same as those are supposed to enforce the rules they would like it to be simple as well
I agree with Greg's summary about Recreational + CBO Guidelines should not equal Part 107. But it seems that is the direction this is taking. My feeling is this will either motivate more Recreational flyers to go for Part 107, or they will simply decide to ignore the new Guidelines.
Too bad there's no one at the FAA that can read anything intelligently written. These rules are nothing more than a power grab for the large drone delivery companies.
The FAA seems interested in creating a hurdle high enough to discourage interest in STEM as well as aviation in general. Children are the future of aviation and it's incredibly unlikely that most will be willing / able to grasp the concepts of airspace and etc.
Why couldn't the recreational have included a carve out of 200 ft elevation limit (for example)? I understand not flying your drone to the moon, but what are the chances you're interfering with general aviation at
The rules is already there ... 400' because manned aircraft have a low limit of 500' unless landing ...
Thank you, Greg! You are the best source of drone info on TH-cam! I fly drones as part of my job and it's awesome to a knowledgeable person like you to explain these confusing rules. Much appreciated!
Thanks for drone updates and ruling on recreational fly.
I totally agree with you analysis of keeping it short and simple
Something the AMA pushed from the beginning was that they should be allowed to use their rules as being sufficient for RC flying (not just drones). It appears that this is, in essence, an attempt by the FAA to acquiesce to that position while still maintaining tighter control for pilots operating as professionals. I agree with Greg that this could get out hand. However, as he also points out there some good points to this proposal.
This can't be stopped, slowed down or changed in any meaningful way. It's a continuing process to phase out the ability for anyone to fly drones without a "Commercial" license. The hobby definitely has a shelf life. What will happen? People will just fly anyway. Fines? Probably, but not without some serious parallel lawsuits. I fly responsibly, and will continue to fly as long as I can. Many of these rules are common sense, except for those who want to fly irresponsibly anyway.
Good analysis and mark-up of the draft. Some initial thoughts:
* Many/most rec pilots will ignore/not know of the cloud of rules suggested in this draft.
* FPV pilots will be unable to fly around structures and remain in compliance.
* Thus, many in the FPV community will perceive this as an open attack by the FAA on their activity.
* Sadly, those in the FPC community who perceive a threat to the viability of doing FPV may be correct. The hobby could be rendered too regulated or risk burdened to continue.
* It has been estimated there were 19,379 gun violence deaths in the US in 2020. Meanwhile, there no known deaths resulting from recreational UAS devices. Yet, the government chooses to impose a whole new regulatory cloud on recreational UAS devices. 🤡 Our tax dollars at work. 😒
Get your part 107 and this won't be an issue.
@@faethe000 On a personal level, I have had the Part 107 cert for over two years now. Moving onto reality, an FAA effort to micro-regulate the vast majority of recreational PIC's will be, IMHO, as successful as its certifying the 737 MAX to fly. Further, the FPV community, which has demonstrated a cohesiveness and impact beyond its size (and of which I am not a part) is probably about to crank up a robust resistance campaign.
@@edruttledge342 I'm curious what kind of resistance campaign a bunch of hobbyists could levy against the FAA
Well ... this could be a "watch and learn" opportunity then (?)
The RC aeronautics hobby has already been devastated by the FAA and the introduction of new technology. Just go on TH-cam, how may recreational pilots do you see posting their favorite flights with rc helicopters and rc planes? How many manufacturers and hobby shops can you still go to for parts? If you look you will probably see a few videos, most of those are the Alan Szabo or Curtis Youngblood types that are professionals selling a product.
Now we have the FAA taking 3D helicopters, scale planes, 3D planes etc. that took hundreds of hours, thousand of dollars to build and years to learn the flying skills needed to fly and lumping them in with FPV and camera quads. If I'm going to fly one of my helicopters I'm not putting on remote ID or making changes so these a$$holes can harass me. Not going to happen. I fly safe because that's how I fly, I have insurance because things do happen but they are my choice. Fly near people? Flying a helicopter or plane near people is a distraction and a good way to crash. I also see these people that seem proud of themselves for turning other people in, proud to be a rat. The FAA bringing out the worst in the worst. RC planes and helicopters without cameras should have been left out from day one like we were promised in 2012. Congress and the FAA lied. Congress and the FAA are both complicit in destroying a hobby that many people loved and enjoyed for decades, some their entire lives and have spent tens of thousands of dollars over the years. Time for them to FO. I also fly quads with cameras but that is a different hobby.
There was a point were I said "enough" with the unconstitutional and ridiculous gun laws in many states, in particular NJ. I still exercise my right to bear arms and I will not submit to government oversight and ignorance where RC aeronautics is concerned. The government passed that point the day they required "registration". Enough is enough.
Another great video Greg!! Thank you for spending time studying this and presenting the information so thoroughly!!
I think that the FAA ought to now require that all commercial and passenger transport aircraft CANNOT fly over populated areas or cities. Commies!
Exactly : )
Fathom this batman.... All the shit they are dumping on us to NOT be able to do is exactly what "Drone delivery" WILL be doing every freaking flight. Supposedly all this is for safe integration of the air space... they are all corrupt morons and exactly NONE of this is for safety. Its all about commercial dollars and lobbyist lining the politicians pockets. NOTHING more.
@@borgonianevolution My sediments, exactly! And Power!!!
Very informative video. I really think all drones should come with a warning right on the box "FAA rules and guidelines must be observed for operation". Gone are the days you impulse buy one of these things and think you're just going to go launch it anywhere without penalty or fines. Safety First, but consumers should be warned these are not toys.
Had my drone maybe 2 months for hobby and man now I wish I have not even spent money on it.
I like to see you've done a great job explain this and I agree I think they're making it too complicated for most of the regular people that want to start in this Hobby I just recently passed the trust test it was easy
Great video! Thank you for everything you do for the Drone community.
Why doesn't the FAA just expand 44809 to include the regulations they want and leave the whole CBO variability and approval process out of it? It won't be long before everyone in the community figures out which CBO has the most lenient guidelines acceptable to the FAA for their approval. Everyone will then just say they are following the guidelines of XYZ Association. I am betting that any CBO that ignores ANY of the FAA's " recommendations" will find themselves unapproved. It's all getting too nuts. RECREATIONAL has to remain the operative word, otherwise, what's the point?
I am so glad that I ran into this video. I had no idea that all this was at hand, I just recently bought two drones and was hoping to be able to fly them with my grandkids... Now I'm starting to see that it is a lot for children and honestly I am afraid to fly my drone I think I just might send it back to the vendors...
Great video Greg. Totally agree with you. In their efforts to regulate the airspace, the FAA have removed much of the distinction between commercial and recreational flying with more and more regulation being introduced as time passes. FPV racing for example has a proven safety record and should not need to have strict rulings about the need for observers (recommendation would do). Safety regulations are being introduced into areas of the hobby where there have been few if any accidents. To my knowledge, no risk assessment has yet been made public for UAVs. "It's just a matter of time before we have major drone disasters" is not a good enough argument. (Meanwhile, yet another light plane crash takes a handful of lives) I fully support geo fencing and ads-b in brand name drones. Considering the masses generally buy this sort of equipment (with just the enthusiasts building 'fly anywhere' devices), the industry has, by and large, created its own safeguards. Why do we need more regulations including remote ID in the recreational sector? The FAA is very concerned at the number of restricted airspace breaches by drones. It has to be asked how many of these really were recreational UAVs (or UAVs at all). In the case of remote ID, would the perpetrators be stupid enough to have it enabled? I don't think so.
Make the guidelines, maybe rewrite 44809 to align them with Part 107; get rid of CBO component. Probably not legal anyways, but an FAA concession to well-meaning advocates or commercial transport drones companies (we don't need them in big cities).
There are books filled with disregarded and unknown laws. Like a person in polite company who just wont stop talking they eventually get tuned out. Enforcement of the rules (wherever they end up) will be interesting and telling. I think FPV requires more skill and practice than a typical cinema drone. As a pilot of both I feel much more situational awareness and control using FPV than flying VLOS. It’s the difference of driving an RC car or sitting in the drivers seat of a car. I think the restrictions on FPV are coming from a place of ignorance and lack of first hand experience. Sadly the more rules get piled on the more ignored and irrelevant the rules will become until enforcement shows up. UAV’s are still a relatively new thing. First time parents tend to make a lot of unnecessary & overprotective rules and then are burdened with enforcement and consequence efforts. Like always, Time will tell. :-). Thanks for the great informative video!
Great comment! Couldn't agree more.
To me it's as though the rules aren't in line with the available technology. Flying VLOS is certainly a skill any drone pilot should have. However, the data available to the pilot (distance, height, FPV view via camera, map) provides much better situational awareness.
I completely agree, that while safety is a valid concern, the FAA should be careful not to take the fun right out of recreational flying. Like you mentioned, there could be resistance or rebellion against rigid rules, and there may be a number of people who decide flying is just not worth it, and walk away. Stay with guidelines, keep it simple, keep it easy to follow.
I think that the Government uses overly-broad language so that they can use it as a catch all later. I agree that they need to define *exactly* what the new "guidelines" are. I'm not an FPV flyer, so I really can't fathom what the guidelines will mean for that part of our flying but I certainly agree that micro managing will cause people to either ignore the guidelines or leave the hobby. Safety is important though, so I encourage that focus.
This is a great video. Isn't it funny that it's much easier to get a handgun gun license.
10 years ago it took an 8-hour class and a shooting test to get a concealed license in Texas. Now you just strap on and roll. Not loving it.
Also, strap-on. Teehee. Sorry.
Georgia is one of the most permissive States for handgun licensees. The law requires that the applicant submit his/her fingerprints, under go criminal background checks via. the Georgia Bureau of Investigation and the Federal Bureau of investigation, and pay a fee that can approach $100, depending on your County. Although some claim that the FAA is overstepping its bounds with the regulation of recreational fliers, I can assure you that I spent a lot less time and money getting my USA registration number and passing the TRUST exam than I did for my firearms license.
Very informative video, Greg. Government at its finest by making simple things more complicated than it should. I used to work on military programs in contracts/proposals for many years. Whether it's Air Force, Navy, or Army programs they try to cover every angle in their proposal verbiage that you need a lawyer to try to understand what they actually need. When it's all said and done, we ended up what was a 200-page proposal to 800 pages. Sounds like the FAA is no different. LOL!
I feel an important topic to bring up is Shielded Operations. (Flying below tree line and in and out of coverage) The proposed guidelines effectively eliminate freestyle flying. But when done correctly, freestyle in or around buildings and trees is completely safe. There needs to be allocations for this type of flying. Otherwise we will lose a lot of members in our community.
*Outstanding job keeping everyone informed of this stuff* . Let's be totally honest...no 'Recreational' flyer is reading through any of this documentation. Most barely read the directions or instruction manuals before lauching a quad. As someone who has their part 107 (and as many others who will agree), it's tough keeping up with this stuff. And, let's be honest there is so much MORE TO COME! BVLOS (Beyond Visual Line of Sight) will be a whole other can of worms (after Remote ID is fully launched of course). Companies like Skyward give just a glimpse at what's to come.
I think the topics are correct: the CBO could do a one page summary in bullett points of the Do/don’t to make it easy.
They should just take drone out of stores at this point. Most adult, much less kids, are NOT going to be aware of or care about any of this, and could be facing THOUSANDS of dollars in fines. That might be the governments plan.
The FAA (or other federal government org) should at a minimum require that when selling a drone, the seller needs to provide resources regarding all applicable regulations. The seller (some random guy at Target) doesn’t need to explain the rules, just notify the buyer at the time of purchase.
@@mastertoastmaker why do you roll over and piss yourself because the bully wants your milk money, stand up for your freedom before it is all gone.
I totally agree that recreational flyers just need some simple rules and that they will not read pages and pages of hard to understand legal descriptions. With age has become the realization that many, if not most, people will do the right thing if it is well defined and easy to follow. I understand Part 107 is more complicated and for those that want to do more, or want to use their drones for commercial purposes will read and follow the stricter guidelines in order to maintain their Part 107 status. Something I want to do so I can volunteer my drone at the small local fire/police departments. The FAA has never adhered to the K.I.S.S. principle in their rule making, in fact I believe they never back up and look at the rule as a whole or they would realize how unwieldy it is and that few will ever read or follow it because it is so huge. Thank you Greg for another head-up!
My observation about the CBO's additional restrictions is that it seems to cause contradiction and confusion with Part 107. The additional restrictions seem to be based on the "what if" mentality and not hard evidence of actual field experience. You can appreciate the common sense approach to flights over human populations and it's risks. So, that should be a concern of the CBO'S.
No real chance they deliberately left out the sub-250 gram registration exemption?
It was like that in the other AC. It is all over their website so I don't think they are doing this deliberately.
Bought cool affordable DJI drone from Amazon (yay), then starting watching videos like this on TH-cam about all the rules I have to learn now, then boxed up drone and sent back to Amazon. Screw all of this, buying a GOPRO instead and taping it to a kite.
It was the requirement to follow CBO guidelines that persuaded me to go ahead with Part 107 certification. As an example of a CBO, the AMA (Academy Of Model Aeronautics) has stringent requirements and simply does not, or at the time did not, envision citizens flying pretty much anywhere they pleased. You would have to fly at an AMA sanctioned model airfield for instance. AMA rules are certainly safety conscious and designed to prevent spectators from being injured by fast moving, fixed-wing model aircraft that sometimes can be rather large, 6 foot wingspans or more.
Thanks for presenting a very responsible, respectful overview.
It's a pity that these regulations are required because people today have no commonsense nor respect for others . If everyone had that the regulations would not be required .
I bounced this off someone at the FAA I've developed a professional relationship with, and although this is not the official position of the FAA, he basically said the feeling over there is that "ideally they would like every remote pilot to be Part 107 certified". Which, seems to fit the their modus operandi with these labyrinths of regs and guidelines. But true to government form, they can't see past their own noses. You're going to push people away from even paying attention to anything that comes out of FAA, and the FAA doesn't have the time, resources, means to enforce these regs. I also wanted to throw in a personal standpoint on FPV. I'm a commercial sUAS pilot and former private pilot.. hell my dad was a former Flying Tigers 747 check captain. I understand and respect the importance of regulations and procedures. That being said, I'm also an avid recreational FPV pilot and I feel like that whole community is not getting the same representation that the commercial folks are. Personally, I don't see any harm in limiting them to 150' AGL, skip the VO, especially if they're equipped with goggles that can warn about approaching aircraft (like the DJI googles), and ditch VLOS since most of my flying is in abandoned buildings or canyons. Obviously this is shooting from the hip, but again, who is speaking on behalf of the FPV crowd.
Cheers Greg if you're reading these!
Love this channel. Thanks for keeping us updated 👍
The additional rules on AGL guidance are insane! The 400AGL is for positive VLOS control. LAANC/ALOFT and B4UFly outline very well the flight regulations and flight restrictions around the area. Also, you should be able to fly 400 ft above the PIC (Pilot in Command)
All of these regs are so obscure it makes me wonder if ignorance can go a long way when dealing with LEOs or FAA because it's also confusing to them too. Many of the FAA interactions I'm reading about are simply "hey we feel you're in violation, we're educating you about it, resolve the violation and we'll close the case". So imo as long as you're trying to fly responsibly and don't do something incredibly illegal/unsafe, your chances of large fines/jail time are low. With that said, the more information you can rattle off when being questioned the better which is why I've printed out a "Karen Card" as others have. It shows my registration status, license status and all the various regulations that I AM aware of and following (400ft max alg, giving way to aircraft, CBO guidelines I'm following etc.. ) so if I'm pressed on the spot I'll come across as someone who's educated/made an effort and not fumbling my words trying to remember everything, I think this would help in just getting a warning if there is some new law/reg I missed.
These mounting FAA rules are a response to something more than just about Safety. You’d think among all the national epidemics out there rUAS were the leading cause of fatal injuries. How would all these guidelines and regulations look if applied to motorist?🤔 Motor vehicles have certainly proven to be more dangerous than UAS. FAA should take notes from the STB. Control through regulation is what I see. Thanks Greg for the insight.
This may be a more generic question to everyone that flies for fun and the love of the hobby, but here it is: So a police officer pulls up too a known lication that has people flying. They park their car close enough to see someone with their head down (which mose of us do), while wearing a pair of FPV goggles. At that point, the officer's decide to get out and question that person, simply because they know that he's not physically talking to anyone and is simply having fun, yet they know that no one can be expected to pull off thier goggles, wait for their eyes to adjust to daylight, locate thier drone while still in the air, and mentally fix thier direction and orientation and take control of their drone in an instant. The police know that they can now question/ticket/ harass and possibly confiscate his/her equipment (a friend of mine had his drone confiscated by a local officer over a year ago before these rules came into play), because they'll know have new rules backing their decisions. Remember, police are directed to make a certain quota by months end, to generate extra revenue for the state.
My number 1 question is: who is going to enforce this?
(My local police force has stated they will not, as they are not getting federal funding to enforce federal laws)
Curious about the status of the fpv VO suggestions. Most of these pilots, imo, won't follow this guidance. Many are short distance flyers where this becomes a burden to fly.
Absolutely. I believe there's a disconnect between VLOS guidance for most FPV ops and for other VLOS ops with traditional UAS.
Thank you so much for making this video. Flying models were around prior to manned flight and has a safety record beyond reproach. There are also more model pilots than manned pilots in the US. So why is there no representation of any kind? This is so very very sad.
FAA is pushing it !! I think we as drone community need a or a few LOBBYIST in DC
So what if all the potential CBO's (whoever they may be) organize together and refrain from applying as an FAA Recognized CBO? Then there would be no additional guidelines to follow because there's no FAA recognized CBOs.. Yeah, I know... that won't happen.
Excellent video! I would love to see your comments that you plan to send to the FAA. Perhaps even a form with your comments that I could put my name on and submit to the FAA as well. Thanks for the info!
We typically don't share comments on this kind of efforts because the FAA looks at duplicate comments as one. It's better if everyone is provided the information and formulate their comments in their own words.
@@PilotInstitute I totally understand and respect that. In that case perhaps a checklist of things we ought to include?
Funny you mention that. After Janet Jackson's nipplegate incident the FCC received very few letters concerning the nip slip but "we assumed every letter represented a thousand people who were too afraid to write." Silly stuff but not unusual for Uncle Sam.
My wife got a drone for me last Christmas. To late to return it to the store. On the shelf it will stay.
The concern I have, is when there are multiple CBOs in a area, what guidelines will apply if they differ? It seem like an over-reach and the inconsistency between differing CBO. Almost getting to the point to get the commercial license seems the way to go. The other potential issue, is if the CBO restrict areas where they can fly (i.e. their flight areas), and that essentially restricts where one could fly if the CBO defines areas (where they potentially could charge to use).
Doesn't getting the commercial license (Part 107) bypass all this complexity, where the rules are specifically defined by the FAA and without the ambiguity of the recreational flyers?
I know this is old news... I appreciate your videos. I'm here to learn all I that I can about the rules and regulations. I recently received a pretty nice drone as a gift, and I have no prior experience.
I must say that this is discouraging information. I'll continue educating myself, but at this time I don't believe I'll be sending the FAA a $5 registration fee for my new (>250g) drone or, by extension, be flying it at all. I haven't even unfolded the "arms" on it yet. I took it out of the box to have a peek one time, but that's where it's going to stay for the foreseeable future.
I have access to about 40 acres of private land which is 20 miles from the nearest municipal airport. I thought if I ever did get a drone, it would be very simple to fly there for fun and stay safe and within the rules. Obviously, I was wrong.
And I can't imagine what others restricted to more populated or high traffic areas go through to have fun with their drone.
How is it even possible to claim a recreational exemption to fly for "fun" when you have to navigate so many requirements and regulations? ...that's not my idea of fun.
After reading some comments here... if you don't like the current state of affairs then how do you fix it? ...The same way you fix everything else. If you don't like something, then don't participate in it. When enough people don't participate in a thing it tends to go away.
As a general principle (in the United States), you vote at the ballot box, and you also vote with your energy.
Every time you cast a ballot for something, you cast a ballot against something else. Choose wisely.
Money, being one form of potential (stored) energy... Every time you influence a transfer of money (make a purchase, watch an ad, click on one, etc.), you encourage a particular behavior.
The effects of those ballots and behaviors are real and are far reaching, both in distance and in time. The worst of which include things such as poverty, pollution, child labor, sex trafficking, slavery, genocide, and war, to name a few.
In the United States you don't get your personal freedom from the government's power and certainly not from a bureaucracy, quite the opposite actually.
On a side note... I've seen the increase in drone regulation contrasted with a (seemingly) lack of gun regulation. Ironically, any individuals you would entrust, and who would accept, the power and responsibility of your personal safety are the same who would enthusiastically tell you when, where and if you can fly.
Thanks for digging deep into these documents. I think the only once who will be upset are those who don’t like to follow rules and could destroy the hobby for the rest of us.
"could destroy the hobby for the rest of us"? Bhaaaa, bhaaaa. Some people who have been flying for 20 years with no regulation and do not need a mommy to hold their hand or have cry babies spy on them from the bushes. There is absolutely no justification for me to take any test or to add any electronic tracking or identifying device.
Exactly how does adding rules and regulations and adding remote ID to a 3D helicopter make anyone any safer?
I agree with you about the rules should be simple. I'm a new drone flyer and if they make things so complecated people will, like you said, not want to read pages and pages of do's and don'ts. As a new flyer I plan on flying safely but having too many restricktions why would I want to fly. I do plan in the future to go for part 107 but at this point in time I'm just looking to have fun and get tyo know my drone better.
Ok this is definitely getting confusing. I am recreational pilot. I can fly at night… nope.. because AMA guidelines and ALL CBO guidelines say you can’t fly at night…. No wait, there are no CBO rules yet since they’re not certified…but wait I still have to fly according to some arbitrary current rule of existing CBO…but wait, it only says that in the Advisory Circular, and that is NOT considered regulation, just guidelines…but wait, we have to comply with guidelines? I give up… CAN I LEGALLY FLY AT NIGHT OR NOT!
We feel you... Yes you can fly at night (the AMA does allow it with lights) as a rec flyer, as long as you're in uncontrolled airspace.
@@PilotInstitute thank you…do you have a link to those AMA rules? I think I will print that out and keep it handy.
Very well explained and concise video. Thank you!
Classic govt overreach to fix something that isn't broken.
In 2012 congress and the FAA swore they would not interfere with the RC aviation hobby. They lied. Next week's clarification of recreational flying will include Frisbees.
It still boils down to this Amazon FedEx UPS and several other commercial drone entities want the air space we flying and they’re the only ones allowed on the committee they even threw DJI off the committee. You can fly and ultra flight airplane that will fly 63 miles an hour you can fly small one man helicopter that does have turbine engine i.e. jet engines for those who don’t know the difference no license no medical no spotter no training. And when one of those comes out of the year it does a lot more damage than a half a pound have
Doing what they do best.
So ground level section that’s mentioned it’s only clarifies man made structures so if you fly it from a top of a hill or a mountain is ok?
Interesting point Jesse, just another that needs futher clarification. General aviation has a minimum operational attitude of 500ft above the ground, not above sea-level (except in the immediate areas of controlled airspace such as airports, densely populated areas, certain restricted government areas, etc). Thus the minimum agl clearace remains relatively constant (as agl values do have to take into account such pesky things as trees, boulders, small buildings and such), where as altitude above sea-level is, for our intent and purpose, based upon a fixed elevation, that being zero.
So elevation clearances remain limited to 400ft maximum agl, while general aviation has a 500ft minimum agl, which leaves us with a constant 100ft buffer zone no matter where we are standing. This is why nearly all developed areas with multiple multi-storied buildings fall under the classification of controlled airspace.
The one thing I seriously ask of my fellow modelers is not to give up because some changing rules and regulations. By simply giving up this activity/sport/hobby we so enjoy without fighting to retain it, we are simply giving the Government another victory by simply rolling over without offering any resistance, the exact complaint I'm hearing from most of you. It may not be an easy task, but I ask you; what is worth having, including our drones as well as our very freedoms and democracy, are not worth fighting for?
Unchecked Government WILL GLADLY take anything we are willing to simply give them, and unchecked will continue to do so with impunity!!!
Thank you for the important info.
It isn't easy to list everything that is included in common sense.
None of this matters until the FAA starts enforcing their own crap. I reported a fellow 107 pilot for flying at night, over people and vehicles in class delta (at the same time). This pilot DID NOT have a night operations waiver, nor authorization to fly in class D - even in daylight). I showed the FAA his own posted video proving he did all this over and over for profit. The FAA took my complaint, that I made to my local FSDO office over the phone. The result was the pilot was told all the things he did wrong (things he already knew as a 107 pilot for 2+ years) and asked not to do it again. The video is still on his YT page promoting his company. No fine. Not even a nasty letter. The FAA is a joke and all these silly rules and suggestions are simply irrelevant. I would also like to mention that the huge corporation that hired this clown to fly his illegal missions was never even contacted. So again, the FAA is a joke.
@ThatOneStopSign None of this matters until the FAA starts enforcing their own crap. I reported a fellow 107 pilot for flying at night, over people and vehicles in class delta (at the same time). This pilot DID NOT have a night operations waiver, nor authorization to fly in class D - even in daylight). I showed the FAA his own posted video proving he did all this over and over for profit. The FAA took my complaint, that I made to my local FSDO office over the phone. The result was the pilot was told all the things he did wrong (things he already knew as a 107 pilot for 2+ years) and asked not to do it again. The video is still on his YT page promoting his company. No fine. Not even a nasty letter. The FAA is a joke and all these silly rules and suggestions are simply irrelevant. I would also like to mention that the huge corporation that hired this clown to fly his illegal missions was never even contacted. So again, the FAA is a joke.
I also add that you should call your congressman, and point out that these _"guidances"_ do not necessarily comport with the spirit or intent of sub-part 44809, and concisely explain why. This certainly is beginning to seem like "Executive Overreach" of the legislative mandate. I am fairly new to the RC hobby, but already have a substantial investment of time and money, based on the concept of limited regulation of the hobby. I have been willingly compliant to this point, but going forward seems to be a whole new ballgame. It almost appears they are trying to regulate the hobby out of existence., by turning CBO's into "state actors". The whole idea of CBO's was that the Community was better suited to guide the hobby than the FAA, yet the FAA presumes to offer this velvet covered fist to the CBO's?
I'm a common sense type operator, in that I don't take too many chances while flying, don't like to fly over homes or people. Hell, I even have my altitude limit set to 300 ft. I want to get my Part 107 license but I want to see how much regulations will take away our abilities to fly and would it even be worth it I have just over a $1000 investment in my drone system and it's not going to gather dust. If it gets too bad, I'll ignore most of those guidelines. Like speeding, cops can't be everywhere, and it's a chance a lot of people take. I'm just being honest. I understand about safety and all of that, but at some point, I'm not training to fly a 747.
If the government really want to destroy the hobby, they should institute a buy back program.
I think that "error" refers to an incident. Did the operator create an incident?
Thanks Greg! It sounds like Community Based Organizations (CBO) will be adding much more restrictions in the areas they take responsibility for. I’m thinking that Cities and Municipalities or other Government agencies (BLM, State Land Department’s) could also be included in approved CBO’s? Regardless - People who don’t follow rules won’t care , read or follow these rules anyway.
Great job of keeping us informed!
I agree that the rules for recreational flying are getting out of hand. But at the same time I think there needs to be a little more education than the current TRUST testing since a large majority of rec flyers that bought a drone for fun have no idea that there are FAA requirements such as SUAS registration, TRUST, or there are even any rules to begin with. Whether it be a free short in-person session from a CBO or JHA or a refined TRUST process combined with SUAS registration that provides more training instead of just being a 5 minute click through, guaranteed pass "test".
And how all of these proposed changes, if adopted, will be incorporated when Remote ID is rolled out is going to be a new ball of wax.
The requirement for additional training is indeed necessary. That's actually why we created our free course called Recreational Flying Made Easy. We cover all the basic things you should do, and we made it free! pilotinstitute.com/course/recreational-flying-made-easy/
They have already lost this flyer of 47 years. Going to see if my radios are worth anything as reclaimable scrap electronics, recycle the batteries, have a little (relative term) BBQ starter with the balsa and spruce planes. This death by a thousand cuts from the unelected FAA "officials" (who are waiting on the high priced consulting jobs to come along from the commercial side) is more then irritating enough to say good bye to a hobby I enjoyed for decades. No more money to the FAA for registration, no more money to AMA for insurance and model news. If this sounds bitter, it is. The quickest way to ruin something, it seems, is to have a government agency make up rules for something that they do not do themselves. They have no clue, a lot of the stuff they advocate puts this out of the reach of most hobby flyers, or has not been invented yet, just to be on the safe side!. Thanks for the info.
I am surprised by the lack of lobbing the FAA by drone companies. If not for relaxation of rules then at least for no further regulation. These new rules will deter more and more customers from buying their products, especially FPV drones.
As a part 107 pilot who flies for a news organization I'm actually worried about the creation of these CBOs and them interfering with my ability to do my job because local law enforcement doesn't understand the difference between a CBO and Part 107 restrictions. For example I could easily see a CBO being formed in a local municipality that puts in an additional stipulation that you can't film someone with a drone without their consent (I've had police officers attempt to ground me based on their incorrect assumption this was the case already) this could lead to problems where I'm covering a breaking news event under part 107 and get grounded by local police who assume the CBO regulation also applies to 107 flights even though my ability to film in these situations is expressly permitted.
I'm still trying to get access to a printer to register etc. Waiting years for all this rule regulations to settle and quit injecting that recreational use is criminal and must be regulated. When you want to go to a public park designated remote control area to learn to fly and have fun and the coo coo starts twisting your desires into some unforseen crazy criminal behavior like illegal contraband and recklessness. 🤯
First. Curious of the scope of the CBO coverage. Hope I'm not missing some thing someone else brought up. Are we talking areas encompassing a city, a county, the state? Whats going to prevent people outside the recreational drone group registering and take over a CBO to forward rules to prevent drone flying.
If I fly out at the farm, am I going to have to follow some CBO's rules?
CBOs will likely be nationwide. Think about them as a national club, kinda like AMA is right now. You will eventually decide on a CBO that represents your value, the type of flying you do, and that has guidelines you can live with. They will be rules that you follow in addition to 44809. I foresee we will have half a dozen to a dozen CBO to choose from, some will specialize in quadcopters, some in FPV, some in fixed wing RC, etc...
@@PilotInstitute That kind of defeats the "Community" in CBO. I was under the impression these were going to be local club like entities. How are you ever going to be able to enforce national scope rules. You might as well put every one under part 107 then.
@@PilotInstitute So, maybe there will be one CBO whose guidelines say "fly safely" and the whole country can choose that as their CBO? Does the FAA have to approve the guidelines? Does the FAA have to approve changes to the guidelines after they are approved once? I'm hoping for a loophole here...
@@paulctx Yes the FAA has to approve the guidelines. Whether or not they will be clear as to why a CBO was rejected or not is a different story. We will see if not having ALL of the guidelines from the AC is ground for not getting approved.
Submitting comments. Thanks Greg! Keep it up, sir! T :-)
VLOS. Following a grey red or green spot in the sky during the day without a strobe is damn near impossible. As soon as you take your eye off of it, it goes into stealth mode. Someone needs to come up with a delay switch for strobes. Mine hurts my eyes when I turn it on.
Very good, But, Instead of saying document over and over, it would be helpful if you said the AC number instead
Future CBOs that will spring up as a response to this "opportunity" to boss another citizen will result in local rules that are totally arbitrary and capricious.
It's already sucking the fun out of it for me.
@@Thunderbyrd. Me too brother. It's what "They" want though.
In the FAA guidelines for CBO. A number of them are overly broad and ambiguous, for a reason. Until they, the FAA, come up with more detailed guidelines, they at least have something they can go to court with. CYA until further notice. I expect the ambiguous guidelines to be more fully defined in time. At least I hope so. Some of them are so under defined that neither side of a lawsuit would have a leg to stand on if using them as an argument.