The Jackson Kayak 'Flow'
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ย. 2023
- A solid look at Jackson Kayak's newest creeking river runner, the Flow. It's a solid replacement of the Zen series, using the best features of the Gnarvana as a base. For reference, I'm 5'8" and 160 lbs at the time of this video and I'm paddling a medium Flow.
If you're looking for a deeper dive into the design philosophy and features of the Flow, then check out my Gnarvana review here: • The Jackson Kayak Gnar...
I'm a senior citizen [195#] who just started WW last year. I bought a Zen 3 L for its stability. I was thinking about an Antix 2 to step up but now I'm excited to try the Flow. I"m not interested in doing tricks, just liking to surf and go no higher than III water. I guess I'll have to wait till next year to try a large.
I think you'll love the Flow for that and it'll be worth the wait. Unfortunately, we could only do the one mold this time for 2023.
I have been kayaking hardshells for 30 years. I currently paddle a Zen3.. It is great for staying upright and being stable. But when I am not doing class 3 or close too it, it feels like driving the big school bus (including the yellow color).
I am too big /heavy for a half slice and the Ozone large was too tippy. Thinking about a Scorch as a second boat. The Flow looks like a river runner that surfs better than the Z3 and has sharper rails for spinning around the backside of a rock in mid rapid.
About half the hardshell boaters paddle easy class 2, the other half like 2+ and occasional 3.. Then there are the rest who like it harder, but they are a smaller group, but get on the river many more days than the rest of us. The last group is who most of the boats are made for. THe new Flow looks like it is made for the masses, and not the experts.
Comments and analysis were spot on. I’ll likely never paddle anything big enough to warrant the Gnar. I really like my Antix 2 (a very popular boat) and this looks like another great addition to the Jackson lineup.
Thanks for watching! 🤙🏻
I finally decided to pull the trigger on the Flow. I like my Antix 2 a lot, but, with my intermediate level skills I wanted something with a little more volume for the class III creeks, especially when paddling less familiar runs.
Thanks for sharing. Great insights and thoughts about where this yak fits in the fleet. 👊😎
Thanks for watching! 🤙
I've noticed myself locking in everytime it's warranted. Thank you for your kind approach in spreading knowledge about our awesome sport.
Thanks for watching and for the kind support! 🙌🤙
Makes me wish I was 40 or 50 years younger! I never got away from the (high volume) Corsica, but the Flow would have had me hooked.
Thanks Boyd. Very interested in this boat. Glad I did not pull the trigger on a Gnarvana. I’m a 5’11” 145 lb Class II-III boater looking to move into solid Class III. Hoping the medium works for me. 😊
I think you'll LOVE the Flow medium.
I hope Jackson learned from the original Antix and did not set the knees too low in the Flow. Especially for us who paddled large sizes that knee placement was brutal. But the fixed it with Antix 2.0. I hope the fitment continues in this new boat. BTW, there is a whole ton of us in the Northeast that just think the Antix 2.0 is the best kayak ever. We hope Jackson makes it for a long time.
It’s set more like the Nirvana and Antix 2.0…. the knees of the Gnarvana were set pretty high. I love the Antix 2.0 and stoked you guys love it too! I think you’ll be stoked to try this one out. 🤙🏻
Man, I'm all over that Gnarvana X idea. Sure I eat tofu, but I'm still weighing in at 225 and there are a whole bunch a dudes just waiting to spank somma u little guys in these races - but you've conspired against us in these small designs
Lose weight don't blame others only yourself.
6"4 230 here. I agree, designers can't just enlarge a medium boat to a bigger design and expect it to work. It needs to be custom made w input from the big boys. The dagger mamb 8.6 is still my favorite boat in the large size, but Dagger customer service is non existent.
@onlyvanskayaking 'not a fat-ass - was a D1 all-American - probably 12٪ body fat. livin in a sportsmobile myself
@@onlyvanskayaking Man the only thing he's got to lose is muscle! Why would they conspire to make someone like him lose muscle? So they can keep the little guys winning the races!!!
6"5' 265lb, large Nirvana & MonStar work OK... XL Burn3 is good also... Big Axiom or Mamba, there are a few boats out there...
I wasn’t looking for a new boat but this one looks really nice. I’m looking forward to demoing one sometime.
It's fun!! It's worth a demo for sure. I'm hoping it gets people to fall in love with shorter creek boats again.
@@CleanLineKayakingIt’s been six months and I still haven’t seen one of these boats in person yet. Apparently someone trashed the demo boat at our local retailer and it’s no longer in service. Could you comment on the width? I paddle a Z3 presently. You comment on the video that it was too wide, yet the Flow is only 1/4” narrower. The Gnarvana is 1/4” wider than the Z3. Is that width on the Flow behind the hips and it narrows a bit at the knees? It’s hard to tell from the photos but it looks like the cockpit area is similar with the volume being reduced at the bow and stern. Someday I hope to see one in person. I’d rather not buy without trying one out.
with the gnar I was like looks sick, too much for me cant wait to see Dane ripping it up haha. The flow however, this looks like it is gonna be an amazing boat for everyone, amazing looking design.
that's the goal... the good of the Gnarvana but for everyone and everywhere. 🤙
Thanks for this review. I am now a Cl 3 boater (68 yr female, kayaked for 40+ years)), have a small Zen & a Star. Wanted something inbetween for seveal years, but was hesitant to get an Anti 2.0 for the rear ender tendencies. Can you compare the Scorch to the Flow please? Thanks!
How would the small gnarvana compare to the medium flow. I asked you a question already and hate to keep picking yr brain! Im 5'6 163 ish. Would i be too big for a,small gnarvana. The flow a tad wider. Would the flow be a major difference in stability at my specs. Seems like alot of goodxdeals on gnarvana now. Im mainly a,class 2/3 boater and looking to upgrade from a,zen 65. The medium gnarvana is,sit in middle of wt range but height wise it seems like a big boat for me.
You guys need to make a Gnarvana X - 10'3", IDC gallons. Don't go any effin narrower. For the people in Montana that still eat beef.
😂the Large Gnarvana is enormous!
flow smow
@@markhattendorf3378 Man Montana Mark nearly sinks that Large Gnarvana! It's the equivalent of EJ in a Mixmaster 7.0
😂🤙@@markhattendorf3378
@@CleanLineKayaking Man you're 160, you've got that medium Gnar (91 gallons), thats 0.56875 Gallons per pound of body weight. Now if youre 230 lbs, average weight of a montana ranch boy (6'5), you would need a 131 gallon boat to get that same exact ratio! Sticking a boy like that in a 103 gallon boat would be the same ratio as sticking a 160 lb guy in a 71.6 gallon boat! Think about what an untapped piece of the market that is, big boys who want to kayak but are hindered by these little 103 gallon boats and quit and do something else! Jackson could have that market with a GNARVANA-X!!! 30 inches wide, 125 gallons, man oh man, could you imagine that thing would be beautifullllll!
Hey Boyd - I'm coming down to either a Flow or RMX - What would you say are the biggest differences in handling class 3/4?
I can see the Flow being a great all-around Southeast creekin quiver boat - lighter/easier to transport and portage with - smaller footprint will help with tighter eddies - could still overnight with proper load displacement too - easier to pack on commercial flights I suspect also.
I’m curious on the large size. Can you share any potential specs (volume - paddler size - etc.)?
One other ? - would you say the Flow’s edges are less grabby on rocks than the Antix 2.0? For example - Cumberland Plateau Creekin
Excellent video as always, Boyd! Keep ‘em comin! SYOTR🫵🫡🤘🛶🌊
likely about 8’8” and I’d guess 88ish gallons
I loved my Nirvana to help me break into Class 4/4+, but tried out the Code to be more nimble and didn't love it. Do you think a solid Class 3/4 Oregon boater would still be confident in solid 4's in this? I don't really run 5's.
Tough to demo boats out in UT curious about the flow Lg. I’m paddling mostly 3+,4 lower volume rivers with the occasional high water runs. I’ve been using a superhero for these but wishing for something a bit more modern with rocker profile. Super hero is stable and nimble though so it’s been a fun boat. I’m 6ft 3in 225 lbs and a bit of a reactive paddler. Is the flow Lg the way to go or should I be considering the Gnarvana? (I’ve got a Nirvana Lg that I love for bigger water)
Excellent move by Jackson to have a beginner boat that is more responsive. The zen 3 was just too non responsive. Hoping the large flow is narrower than the z3 so i can get it on edge easier and will be able to roll it. The z3 large is too wide.
You will LOVE the Flow compared to the Z3. 🤙🏻
Thanks for the review. You mentioned that this boat is for easier whitewater and if you arent looking to push yourself. Could you clarify that, what do you consider easy?
It’s pretty relative. I’d say that I don’t feel like the Gnarvana livens until I get it on pushy class IV+ or V- but the Flow still feels lively even on class II. At the same time, I’d run anything in the Flow without a second thought… including hard and continuous V+. I personally consider anything below class V easy, and would rather paddle the Flow or Antix 2.0 to play my way down or spice it up… For you or anyone else it’ll be different obviously, but I do think it takes a certain amount of push and continuousness for the Gnarvana to really kick into gear. If you want a zippy, fun creeker river runner and just want one and aren’t doing overnighters, I’d go Flow. If you want a bomb-shelter of a boat to take care of you when you’re scared, I’d go Gnarvana. Hope this helps. 🤙🏻
I see people mention about lower knees. My current boat zen 65 has lower. The zen 3 higher. What advantage is there having higher knees? I'm 5 6 165. Is the higher knees make for better control rolling etc or is it just comfort. The zen 65 was my first boat and it's all I know so excuse my ignorance. I'm due for an upgrade and this boat is peaking my interest. Almost was going for a z3 but I may go with the flow.
In terms of design, I think it’s really more of a function between hull design and volume placement or how a boat needs to shed water. There’s a bit that’s also related to comfort… In the case of the Flow, we wanted to reduce a lot of the bulk and extra volume from the Gnarvana. People go back and forth on preference, but I think the Flow and Antix 2.0 are pretty spot on for fit and comfort. The real difference for me is knee width. With wider knees, I lose some hip mobility and too much stability can be a hindrance… I felt that with the Z3. I had to put in some
hefty knee blocks to narrow up my knees for better drive and control and to make the most of it. The flow feels really good. I’d pick Flow over Z3 any day, but the Z3 is still a good river runner for those who really favor stability. 🤙🏻
Ok, so I weigh 210, but paddle a medium Gnarvana, and like you said it's a great boat for when I'm pushing myself. But I'm not doing that all the time. So, I was thinking that I wanted the Antix 2, but now am not sure. The Flow looks great, but not sure if it's too close to the Gnar and should opt for the Antix 2. I would love to see a design that has higher rocker like the Flow with a stern like the Antix 2.!
At your weight, I'd be tempted to go for the Antix 2.0. I totally agree on a higher rocker and longer version of the Antix... maybe one day 🤙
I noticed you have the Sweet Cheeks in the Flow but not the Antix or Gnar. Can you tell me a little about your setup in the Flow?
Good question… There are a few factors that determine if I’m using a sweet cheeks. First, I crushed my spine 2 full inches over the years so my torso mobility isn’t what it used to be. One way I get around that is by adding in a sweet cheeks to lift me up and effectively lengthen my torso to give me more leverage. Shorter paddlers would benefit from the same. The sacrifice is stability… so sometimes it depends on what I’m doing. When running waterfalls or boofing a lot, I like the extra padding for hard landings because I have 6 herniated/crushed discs.
Anyway, when river running, I typically just use the same sweet cheeks and swap it into whatever boat I’m using if I’m going to use it. I always use the 150 bean in the Gnarvana, and did for a while in the Antix 2.0, but I found I liked a different padding setup in it… two shims under each butt cheek under the seat.
I’m still experimenting with the Flow, but I really liked the way it paddled with the sweet cheeks.
In the rockstar V, I keep a 200 bean sweet cheeks because in freestyle I need all the leverage I can get to compensate for my reduced back flexibility. 🤙🏻
Thanks! That's very helpful. Appreciate all the great content you have here.
If I'm a beginner (never been on whitewater) am I crazy to use one of these on a lake to develop strength/balance? Or should I just use something like a recreational boat just to start developming those? I don't even know where to start! Any good websites with info appreciated. I'm in my 50s and want to figure this out. I may never paddle anything extreme but am thinking even the "easy" stuff would be pretty exciting for me. Advice?
It really depends on what you want. If you want to get into whitewater kayaking, even if your plan is to stay on an easier level, the Flow coupled with instruction would be an excellent choice. I highly recommend some instruction to get you started though.
If your plan is to stay on flat water or to paddle mostly flat water, I would look into a crossover style design like the Traverse may be a better choice.
Are you interested in getting into whitewater paddling? If so, where are you located?
Do a river trip with a rafting company to see if you like the idea of grade 3 rapids, if you do find a creek boat and join a club/get instruction - there should be folk there who will keep you safe on a river...learning to roll is a bonus eventually...spit test a good gauge on whether to walk a rapid or not...
@@georgeevans3823 THANKS, this sounds like great advice!
@@CleanLineKayaking I'm in Georgia south of Atlanta and found a school in Columbus, GA. Hard to find a used Traverse, but apparently there is another run of them coming. Looking at a Demo Zen 3 at the moment. Seems like a good start. Your thoughts?
@@marcusvaldes Zen 3 is a good boat to learn in for sure! That’s what it was designed for. The Flow is significantly better, noticeably better even for a beginner, but either are suitable for sure.
As a newcomer to the sport, this looks like Jackson’s version of a Pyranha Firecracker. Would that a correct assessment?
The Firecracker is more like Pyranha's version of an Antix 2.0, a half slice... The Flow is a totally different style of design, more of a river runner/creeker. So if you're looking for something more playful, the Antix 2.0 or Firecracker would be good options for river running and getting vertical, but if you're a more timid beginner and want something more stable, easy to roll, fun to just surf and river run, the Flow would be your boat. 🤙
Great review, how would you compare the Flow to the Waka Stoke?
The Stoke is another of those larger, longer 9’ boats in the same class as the Gnarvana. It’s focus, like the other boats in it’s class, is speed and skip on really hard, big whitewater. The Flow takes that 9’ skippy feel and adds surfability and makes it more accessible and user friendly for the average paddler in average conditions, but it does sacrifice speed because the length is gone. 🤙🏻
Gotcha, thanks for the reply! Hope to paddle together some day! @@CleanLineKayaking
How would this do for overnights? Does it have enough volume for 4-7 day trip?
really depends on how much you weigh relative to the max weight range. You could definitely do it and it would likely be good, but I’d rather use a Gnarvana for that. 🤙🏻
@@CleanLineKayaking word thanks! I'm 5'8" 145, so on the lower side
@@williamrichmond8237 plenty of volume for you then 🤙🏻
Is the flow a beginner friendly boat, ?
absolutely… Super fun, easy to roll, great edges, and responsive. 🤙🏻
This Flow M looks like an excellent choice for beginners, but I worry about the “low knee position” you and Wade Harrison both mention.
How much does the Flow (M) weigh ?
It's estimated around 46 lbs, but I think it'll end up lighter as production gets dialed
Darn - I was hoping it would come in at 42 or less. And that the large might be 45. The large Gnarvana is 52 lbs., too much for an old guy like me to haul around.@@CleanLineKayaking
@@paulsvids8655 It could be as low as 43 lbs since that was the weight of the second generation Zen series, but I doubt it would ever get lower than that.
Just watched another video where they weighed one and it came in at 45 lbs.
My take away is this is a beginner friendly boat that you won't outgrow unless you want to hit class V
It’s great in class V and up too, but just won’t be as fast or have the extra volume like the Gnarvana. At some point though, beginners should also learn to half slice and playboat before progressing into that class V realm, if that’s what they want. 🤙🏻 Thanks for watching!
@@CleanLineKayaking even better.
looks like a South East technical creeker
I'm amazed how well the Gnarvana fills that niche, but it's really nice to have something smaller for those southeast technical creeking hike ups
I am asking this genuinely. Not here to troll. I was here before. Boats were a billion miles long (dancers, corsicas, pirouettes) And along came short boats. Then slicy boats. Then boats that can kind of combine functions. Then boats went first fat, then long again. How is this anything more than a gimmick at this stage? 99% of people paddle rivers which they should be paddling the original Jackson Fun in. Hulls are for sure better than they were the first time around, but we know how this journey will end. The half-slice and full slice gimmick will end in the Fun, the Fluid Nemisis, The Project, type shapes. The creekers will turn into scuds and Ammos for super rocky rivers, and 9 foot long boats will go back to racing where that all started. So why (apart from taking money off people who were not around for the first time this happened) don't we just get back to what we KNOW will be the end result of this baby step by baby step iteration?
I actually paddled through that entire transition from an EPI 1000 and Dancer XS all the way until now. I learned to cartwheel in a super sport. If you pay attention, you'll obviously see cycles in what people want and trends as far as longer, shorter, faster, flatter, etc, but I can assure you that there is significant evolution happening with both design and technique. The 9' boats with excessive speed and rocker have dramatically shifted the way we paddle and the techniques we use. This return to a shorter creeker, the Flow, uses the best part of that and would blow away any of the boats that looked similar back in the day. Even the half slices spud boats, etc are significantly better, mind-blowingly easier to paddle, and not simple remakes or gimmicks. I think it'd be cool to see a modern twist on one of those spud creekers too, but all those boats you named paddle terribly compared to their updated counterparts/designs.
In short, yes there's a cycle and it will likely continue as trends, but there's a crazy amount of progression in design, technology, and technique that's going with it.