Excellent piece. I was the victim of being an average IQ kid in an above average IQ community (especially high school). I was put through SAT prep classes and a private guidance counselor. Had to take the SAT, ACT, and multiple achievement tests. All to set me up to get into a "great college/university". Hated every minute of it. I was a square peg being forced into a round hole. But I found my way. There is no shortcut to earning your way. Still working on that
I used to teach SAT prep, and I believe that most of the (modest) gains came from taking practice tests. These teach kids how to manage their time, and habituation lowers their anxiety.
Much of what Murray has researched and communicated gets drowned out by the hysteria. So, certain things will not change any time soon. But some things that were changing well before The Bell Curve have changed even more since. When he was in school in the 60s, a man could get a job hitting cows in the head with a hammer. Low skill job. It can be retaught to him every day without affecting productivity. Those jobs don’t exist anymore in America, but 10% of the population who fall into that decile do. What are they to do? As automation of various types come along, what are the newly displaced to do?
Thank you for your work. I wish it was said somewhere by someone that if Charles Murray and Richard Hernstein hadn't published The Bell Curve someone else would have eventually. And that someone may not have been fractionally as thoughtful and deeply feeling as Murray. His Coming Apart along with Gurri's Revolt of the Public explain the 2016 U.S. election outcome in a satisfying, although deeply disturbing, manner.
Fantastic video. Thank you for not making it a “defense of Murray’s chapter 13” - it’s already been done ad infinitum. We need to move the conversation away from chapter 13 entirely (even if it’s defending Murray),or else we’ll never actually learn the lessons which Murray actually communicates.
Love your content as always but is there any way we could delve a bit more into the solution side of things? You inferred that entitlement programs are detrimental and our system of government is ideal, but how? Is the solution through policy? Cultural change? Inquiring minds want to know!
I agree that Murray has been misunderstood and demonized. But, he did take a position in the black/white IQ gap by ascribing some of the difference to genes, even if he didn’t quantify that amount. He may be correct, but let’s not pretend that he wasn’t claiming that blacks, as a group, are inherently less intelligent than whites. Personally, I think that Tom Sowell has the best explanation for the black white IQ gap. It is not genetic differences, it is not racism…rather…it is due to cultural differences. Sowell’s explanation accounts for why Northern blacks often outperformed Southern whites in Army mental tests, and why black children growing up overseas (say in Germany) show no difference to white kids, or why even in the US, the difference in IQ between very young black and white kids is negligible. There is something about the black subculture in the US, particularly in the South, that is profoundly anti-intellectual.
The evidence for average intelligence differences is pretty much overwhelming now - that includes recent genetics studies that found cognitive differences between ancient and modern Eurasian populations, proving that recent evolution of the brain has happened in some populations. If you search Substack, Nathan Cofnas wrote a pretty good rebuttal (I think) to Thomas Sowell's claims (many of Sowell's claims about IQ tests seem to be fiction).
Your argument would largely go against evolution and natural selection. You are suggesting that while all other species of animals commonly split into differences as a result of micro-ecosystems, humanity has somehow been separated by entire continents while simultaneously sharing in its evolutionary gains. That would be quite a finding in the field of quantum physics (entanglement) if there ever was one, yes?
@ Nonsense. First, Homo sapiens is one species…races are largely social constructs and are not subspecies. If you want to use “sub populations” as a descriptor, ok fine, but the existence of sub populations of humans does not automatically mean that these groups differ on all characteristics. I could certainly see different rates of resistance to certain pathogens, but you can’t make the leap that therefore sub population A must have evolved a different average intelligence than sub population B. You would need specific evidence for that and the selection pressures that drove the differences.
@ Yes he did. The fact is that there is a black white IQ gap…no one is disputing that. The question is what causes it. There are three options…entirely due to genes (nature), entirely due to environment (nurture), or some combination of the two. Murray went with #3. He acknowledged in his book that this was his opinion…albeit a very informed one. But the cause of the difference could plausibly be #2 (all environmental)….I haven’t seen anyone take seriously an “all nature” explanation. The jury is not out on this yet…i.e what is causing the black/white IQ difference. Hardheaded and right leaning scholars like Tom Sowell, the ultimate “facts don’t care about feelings” person, disagree with Murray on this and favor an environmental explanation. So please don’t paint this as a facts vs feelings discussion with such flippant dismissals of alternative viewpoints.
6:59 I mean, I was blessed enough to get a tutor, and I brought my SAT up from 17-something to 2000 out of 2400. I’d be surprised if my story is that anecdotal
There is a confounding factor in your story: time. Sure, you score may have improved but what tells you it wouldn't have improved without a tutor. In order to desmonstrate causality, you need a group of people who hired a tutor and a group who doesn't. Studies show the ones who hired one only score about a dozen of points above those who didn't. Everyone improve on SAT, but the point is both the rate of improvement as well as perhaps the maximum ceiling you can reach may not be affected by tutoring.
Most SAT tutors don't tutor you; they just teach you a strategy to increase the probability of getting the correct answer. The strategy is to rule out answers that are impossible and narrow it down to 2 then coin toss. Doing this strategy on answers you can’t find the correct answer for in theory should raise your score. Since the probably becomes 1 in 2 or 1 in 3. It does work but it doesn’t raise your score all that much. The Problem with the SAT is “yes it’s an IQ test but a poor one.”
way underrated channel. excellent work. charles' work has always been misunderstood
Your videos are amazing, I can't understand why it doesn't get more views. I can only think your channel is deboosted
Excellent piece. I was the victim of being an average IQ kid in an above average IQ community (especially high school). I was put through SAT prep classes and a private guidance counselor. Had to take the SAT, ACT, and multiple achievement tests. All to set me up to get into a "great college/university". Hated every minute of it.
I was a square peg being forced into a round hole.
But I found my way.
There is no shortcut to earning your way.
Still working on that
Excellent video
I used to teach SAT prep, and I believe that most of the (modest) gains came from taking practice tests. These teach kids how to manage their time, and habituation lowers their anxiety.
People who score low on standardized tests are the first and the quickest to cry cry cry about smart people being unfair.
Much of what Murray has researched and communicated gets drowned out by the hysteria. So, certain things will not change any time soon. But some things that were changing well before The Bell Curve have changed even more since.
When he was in school in the 60s, a man could get a job hitting cows in the head with a hammer. Low skill job. It can be retaught to him every day without affecting productivity. Those jobs don’t exist anymore in America, but 10% of the population who fall into that decile do. What are they to do? As automation of various types come along, what are the newly displaced to do?
Thank you for your work. I wish it was said somewhere by someone that if Charles Murray and Richard Hernstein hadn't published The Bell Curve someone else would have eventually.
And that someone may not have been fractionally as thoughtful and deeply feeling as Murray. His Coming Apart along with Gurri's Revolt of the Public explain the 2016 U.S. election outcome in a satisfying, although deeply disturbing, manner.
Fantastic video. Thank you for not making it a “defense of Murray’s chapter 13” - it’s already been done ad infinitum. We need to move the conversation away from chapter 13 entirely (even if it’s defending Murray),or else we’ll never actually learn the lessons which Murray actually communicates.
Love your content as always but is there any way we could delve a bit more into the solution side of things?
You inferred that entitlement programs are detrimental and our system of government is ideal, but how? Is the solution through policy? Cultural change? Inquiring minds want to know!
Great
But never get an argument about who's better at __________.
I agree that Murray has been misunderstood and demonized. But, he did take a position in the black/white IQ gap by ascribing some of the difference to genes, even if he didn’t quantify that amount.
He may be correct, but let’s not pretend that he wasn’t claiming that blacks, as a group, are inherently less intelligent than whites.
Personally, I think that Tom Sowell has the best explanation for the black white IQ gap. It is not genetic differences, it is not racism…rather…it is due to cultural differences. Sowell’s explanation accounts for why Northern blacks often outperformed Southern whites in Army mental tests, and why black children growing up overseas (say in Germany) show no difference to white kids, or why even in the US, the difference in IQ between very young black and white kids is negligible. There is something about the black subculture in the US, particularly in the South, that is profoundly anti-intellectual.
The evidence for average intelligence differences is pretty much overwhelming now - that includes recent genetics studies that found cognitive differences between ancient and modern Eurasian populations, proving that recent evolution of the brain has happened in some populations. If you search Substack, Nathan Cofnas wrote a pretty good rebuttal (I think) to Thomas Sowell's claims (many of Sowell's claims about IQ tests seem to be fiction).
Your argument would largely go against evolution and natural selection.
You are suggesting that while all other species of animals commonly split into differences as a result of micro-ecosystems, humanity has somehow been separated by entire continents while simultaneously sharing in its evolutionary gains. That would be quite a finding in the field of quantum physics (entanglement) if there ever was one, yes?
@ Nonsense. First, Homo sapiens is one species…races are largely social constructs and are not subspecies. If you want to use “sub populations” as a descriptor, ok fine, but the existence of sub populations of humans does not automatically mean that these groups differ on all characteristics. I could certainly see different rates of resistance to certain pathogens, but you can’t make the leap that therefore sub population A must have evolved a different average intelligence than sub population B. You would need specific evidence for that and the selection pressures that drove the differences.
He didn't "claim" that. He simply reviewed the empirical studies. Facts don't care about your feelings.
@ Yes he did. The fact is that there is a black white IQ gap…no one is disputing that.
The question is what causes it. There are three options…entirely due to genes (nature), entirely due to environment (nurture), or some combination of the two.
Murray went with #3. He acknowledged in his book that this was his opinion…albeit a very informed one. But the cause of the difference could plausibly be #2 (all environmental)….I haven’t seen anyone take seriously an “all nature” explanation.
The jury is not out on this yet…i.e what is causing the black/white IQ difference. Hardheaded and right leaning scholars like Tom Sowell, the ultimate “facts don’t care about feelings” person, disagree with Murray on this and favor an environmental explanation.
So please don’t paint this as a facts vs feelings discussion with such flippant dismissals of alternative viewpoints.
6:59 I mean, I was blessed enough to get a tutor, and I brought my SAT up from 17-something to 2000 out of 2400. I’d be surprised if my story is that anecdotal
There is a confounding factor in your story: time. Sure, you score may have improved but what tells you it wouldn't have improved without a tutor.
In order to desmonstrate causality, you need a group of people who hired a tutor and a group who doesn't. Studies show the ones who hired one only score about a dozen of points above those who didn't.
Everyone improve on SAT, but the point is both the rate of improvement as well as perhaps the maximum ceiling you can reach may not be affected by tutoring.
@@newtype6043 The assertion is that for most people, tutoring does not raise SAT scores by much. For most people, by much. Both important qualifiers.
Most SAT tutors don't tutor you; they just teach you a strategy to increase the probability of getting the correct answer. The strategy is to rule out answers that are impossible and narrow it down to 2 then coin toss. Doing this strategy on answers you can’t find the correct answer for in theory should raise your score. Since the probably becomes 1 in 2 or 1 in 3. It does work but it doesn’t raise your score all that much. The Problem with the SAT is “yes it’s an IQ test but a poor one.”
He's talking about the pre 1994 SAT
@@MusicaX79 They can make it more and more difficult to discard impossible answers unless you are pretty close to knowing the correct answer.
This is such a great channel. I wish you guys worked harder and put out more content.
Worked harder? The work shows that they work plenty hard. Give some credit where it’s due.
Charles Murray and Jared Taylor, both are national treasures